The sensitivity of language and people when describing race-related issues

[161803398]

A long time ago, there was a certain white guy that I thought was a total ass. Every time he met an Indian he would ask "what is your house; what is your sign". He thought that showed he knew something about Indians and that it meant he wasn't a "racist". I thought it meant he was a racist. I mean, what business it is of his what house or sign someone was. However, I used to acknowledge that there was a lot of rape and murder up at Kispiox. This was true and a real concern to people who lived there. I thought it would be racist to pretend it didn't exist. But this guy thought that made me a racist. I disliked him; he disliked me. Now, I think we were fighting over something fairly stupid. In the end, we were both doing what we believed in and had our hearts in the right place. We were only divided by a stupid issue that's been created by evil people.

[mosquito]

I agree with what so many people say here - racism is learned behaviour, just an idiotic way of discriminating against someone. But there are plenty more, equally assinine ways that non-racists use : the newspaper you read, the football team you support, your educational background, etc. ad infinitum, it's all part of the "I'm right, you're wrong" program that humans seem so good at running.

[TigerLilly]

Wow, what a constructive thread, it has taken me a while to catch up!

Thank you Lord Sidious, I for one have learnt a lot from this thread and I support your argument.

No generalised statements about racial groups are acceptable.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by gigha (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4awZoGIefcE

If you could Lord Please
and goodnight. xxx

There ya go, Sith Lord commands mob barley appear in public.

Posted by sandy (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Ok, time for Uncle Sidious to retire to the rest chamber.
Almost 24 hours without sleep now.
Don't you avalonuggets mess the place up while I am gone, or there will be trouble!
I got a whole load of carrots in yesterday.

Good Night Lord Sidious,

Hope you get some real good sleep as you have had a long row of carrots to hoe in the past 24 hours. WOW! what a gardener you are

Oh, I didn't grow em, I have people to do that for me.
You ever seen an emperor in the garden?

Posted by Strat (here)

Posted by Flash (here)
Despite all the thanks you had, I think you are beside the track Strat. I don't think Lord Sidious intent to be right, I think the intentions are elsewhere.

Also, the separativeness programmation is soooooooo ingrained in us that you made 2 here: age differences, and being a MAN . What difference does it make if you are a man or a woman. This is all the same, nobody likes to be forced into excuses no? Why an older person could not be stupid if he desires so, or have some flaws, as a young one (although I don't think Lord Sidious is in these posts)?.

Well, personnally, I think this is precisely what Lord Sidious is talking about, those ingrained programmation we have, the language we unconsciously use representing them, the images we unconsciously produce in our minds, the separations we provoke with it, without even seeing it.

Correct me if I am wong.

I don't mean to correct you, so much as make my perspective clear to everyone.

Where you said "LS doesn't intend to be right, his intentions are elsewhere," I don't know what you mean. Why wouldn't you want to be right?

I'm going to address the age thing as well as the 'man' thing.

I said to him that I didn't want to come across as pious because I'm younger than him: I imagine, statistically, older people have more wisdom and often more knowledge in general than younger. I know it's not black and white like that, but many perceive it that way. I was raised this way. Many people don't like having a young buck giving them advice. Is that programming? Maybe. The fact is that it's very common in society and if he felt that way I wanted to make sure I didn't offend him.

Right now a lot of people are jumping on him. I wanted to make it clear that I am aware I likely have less life experience. I said it out of respect for him. If he were one of the people that falls under the statistic of not liking young guys giving advice, my comment would alleviate that. From there, he knows I'm trying to help, not attack like others. I don't know him, so I'm crossing my t's and dotting my i's so that I don't offend his sensibilities. What's so wrong with that?

There has to be some level where age matters. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel as though my niece has a lot of wisdom. She's cute, but she doesn't know much about life. This is why I try to teach and protect her. So the counter-argument is, "well that's a 3 year old that doesn't count." OK, fair enough, where do we draw the line? Teens? 20s? People translate this differently and I try not to excite sensibilities.

I am not an 'ageist.' If I came across that way then I apologize I wasn't more clear. I really try hard to be articulate, I pride myself in this (this post is taking 30+ minutes). I will say it again, I am not an ageist, and I won't get into a semantical argument about this.

For the 'man' thing: Maybe this is programming. You may absolutely, be 100% correct. If it is programming, it needs to be acknowledged and we can't attack sensibilities just because they shouldn't exist. We must be compassionate and understanding to change the programming. If you don't address sensibilities like this you will face aggression real quick. If someone walks up to me in the bar, slaps the beer out of my hand and curses my mother, I'll punch them in the chin. If you do this to a girl, she may hit you, or she may get her boyfriend or a man she's with. This has been going on since humans realized they can get drunk. Guys love establishing dominance, OF COURSE this is not all guys, but in general. This is open to debate, though I feel it's not 50/50. Most guys would love to be the knight in shining armor, Superman, or whatever. The star, the guy nobody messes with.

Again, you may be right, the more I think about it, I agree with you. Growing up I participated in martial arts. This is probably because I wanted to be the billy bad ass I saw on TV. There are millions upon millions of guys like this. To be the knight in shinning armor, you have to know how to throw a jab-hook, 1-2.

This may be a backwards, perverse part of society but it is ingrained in the minds of MEN. Many of us are highly likely to rail against any perceived aggression, puff the chest out kind of thing. Here's the thing, even if I am aware of it, and train myself to be a calm person, it's the 'clutch time' that counts. Many men can be understanding, though when someone starts telling them what to do something happens in their brain. Adrenalin starts getting released and that old 'monkey pounding on the chest' instinct comes out of us. Often times, people (men and women I know, I know) get into discussions, then it evolves into resisting the angry emotions. This is where emotion starts to cloud thoughts. It's natural. I think men have a higher probability to 'pound the chest' than women. I do find that odd, because it seems women have a hard time making friends with other women. Maybe the girls I know are crazy, anyway..

So the answer is compassion. It's this knee-jerk reaction that causes fights. LS didn't show compassion or awareness of what I'm talking about in his derogatory posts. He went straight to the chest beating. I will say though, the last few times he's defended himself he has done so with the up most class. He has been calm and articulate and I salute him for that, it probably isn't easy.

You're free to call me sexist, but I'm not, that's just not true. If any of you ladies are offended I am sorry. I've never in my life been called a sexist. I won't discuss this in this thread either. If you'd like, I'd be willing to discuss it in a new thread, or in PM. I don't want to derail this thread but I seriously don't like the idea of being perceived as a sexist.

So if you and LS are aware of programming at this level, you guys should set the examples. I do not feel in his earlier posts with Bill he set a positive example. I feel he went into the chest beating response. You need to practice what you preach or nobody will listen.

You are correct. Those who can walk the walk AND talk the talk are the ones that can do things others can't.
I try very hard to do that. I fail at times.
I am a man like you, not a superman, not a god.
But you know what? There is a time for nice words and a time for a slap in the face.
Mix them up and it won't work.
You see that I got all your attention and I even managed to get a lot of you to figure out what I was doing.
Maybe some of you are angry at me for doing so and that is ok.
But let me tell you ALL this, we are sitting here, on an internet forum trading virtual blows and in the meantime, the system rolls on, unhindered and unconcerned.
Things are coming that many people won't survive.
The system won't need to genocide humanity, it will die off anyways.
Many here won't survive.
So why am I doing this? Because we are spending our time on crap.
Yes, crap, you read that correctly.
Every day that we debate the point over the members leaving, is bill this and that, is nexus doing this and that, is one day lost that we can work out what some of you will do about your future.
Guess what avalonuggets?
That is EXACTLY what the system wants, for you to get lost in aimless pursuits and lose sight of the big picture.
You may realise that I don't lose sight of things, even with people kicking at me, throwing things at me, calling me names and insinuating things that aren't very nice.
I have a way above average intellect and if you guys are smart, you will take advantage of this.
This isn't about ego, it is about survival.
I have people on this forum whose survival means the world to me, that is why I am here.
That is why I am not planning on going anywhere.
What I feel we need to do is this, heal the issues between camelot, avalon and nexus.
As much as is possible.
We don't have to love each other, hell, we don't even have to like each other, but we do have to be able to work together.
So no more nuggetry, or you might end up with orange things hanging out of your nose!

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
We are told that, but is it true?
Did the whites really screw the nation up? How much is poticially correct rubbish?
We will never know, until we kill this racism madness.
Political correctness is like a gastic band for the intellect.

I’d say it’s true on the grounds that the Aboriginals didn’t have the technology to mess it up too bad. Also, they respected the land and animals spiritually, which is a far cry from how it’s been treated by our culture – the one whose bottom line is money, profit and ownership.

I don’t do political correctness. I think it’s a heap of crap. I really think this about what our modern culture has done to the indigenous culture, though

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Whitehaze (here)
Race. In the beginning it was the human race, and in the end it was the human race. All these labels we keep applying to particular members of the human race needs to stop in order for the human race to move on. When we finally get THIS clue we are going to find that there is no color that seperates the true light that resides within us all.

Agreed. It's not at all the colour - that's just an easy identifier- it's more the culture and the attatchments one holds in regard to it that are doing the damage. In regard to Australian one culture destroyed another.
They were totally incompatible.
One culture knew nothing of ownership while the other was all about ownership. One culture believed they belonged to the land, the other believed the land belonged to them.
It was always doomed with such a mindset.

And you proved my point, it is not about skin colour, it is all about economics/money.
The system created this to play divide and conquer and this very thread is evidence that not only does it work, it is still working, even here where we think we are more ''advanced'' than others.
But are we?

Agree – and this culture mainly represents all people with white coloured skin. I’ve always wondered how that came about. Did it start when ‘they’ started messing with the DNA?

Also – I don’t think we are more advanced at all. Our technology has made us infantile and spiritually bereft. Take it away and most of us would be unable to survive.

Let me say this to you, there is not one group around, now or in history that could survive without taking from the environment.
Debating the merits of the way the aborigines lived is redundant, we need to now move on to how WE are going to make it through the coming cataclysm.
On the last part of your post, I agree totally and that hooks into what I am about.

Posted by Ross (here)
Apparently I'm a first generation Hybrid, so where does that leave me? should I be offended

Ross

Yeah, Ross, you should be offended, seems like everyone else is.
Oh and get a haircut already ya hippynugget.

[Steve C]

I thought a racist was somebody who liked to run fast around a track.

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Let me say this to you, there is not one group around, now or in history that could survive without taking from the environment.
Debating the merits of the way the aborigines lived is redundant, we need to now move on to how WE are going to make it through the coming cataclysm.
On the last part of your post, I agree totally and that hooks into what I am about.

I agree that we all take from the environment, but, to take from doesn't necessarily mean to destroy it. And in regard to Australian history evidence shows that the white culture took, while giving little back. There are cultures who work within the ecosystem and there are cultures who are parastitic and destructive. The parasitic and destructive will eventually destroy itself as it's unsustainable with nature.
Hmmmmmmmm.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Honestee (here)

Posted by Honestee (here)
I always thought a racist was sombody who likes to drive fast in there car

Lets keep the beautiful peace...

Hi All,

I was speaking to a friend on the phone this morning,i was telling him about this thread.

I told him what i posted.

He said he had watched a video with Will Smith.

Will was asked a question about racism,he replied "Racism i dont know what you mean,if we dont believe in it,it does'nt exist"

Wow...i could of jumped for joy when my friend told me that....Will is right,the power of intent and belief makes the world we live in,

If we all thought a racist was sombody who liked to go fast on there bike,run fast,or just get things done with speed,there would be no racism.

We would become equals,on this planet.

I choose not to use the word,i don't believe it exists

Now im going to read something positive and think and feel that positivity,maybe we should all be posting positive news.

Peace All.

Thanks for that.
What I highlighted is exactly what I said in my thread about stopping the madness.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...madness-NOW%21
WE are the wind in the sails of the madness.
Thanks again for your input, it is appreciated.

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Let me say this to you, there is not one group around, now or in history that could survive without taking from the environment.
Debating the merits of the way the aborigines lived is redundant, we need to now move on to how WE are going to make it through the coming cataclysm.
On the last part of your post, I agree totally and that hooks into what I am about.

I agree that we all take from the environment, but, to take from doesn't necessarily mean to destroy it. And in regard to Australian history evidence shows that the white culture took, while giving little back. There are cultures who work within the ecosystem and there are cultures who are parastitic and destructive. The parasitic and destructive will eventually destroy itself as it's unsustainable with nature.
Hmmmmmmmm.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Teakai, again you are correct, but you are missing something.
The environment is going to be devastated, who really cares who did what?
Who cares why they did it?
The population WILL be reduced down to a small number and not that far away.
What are YOU going to do to get through to the other side with those you care about?

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Teakai, again you are correct, but you are missing something.
The environment is going to be devastated, who really cares who did what?
Who cares why they did it?
The population WILL be reduced down to a small number and not that far away.
What are YOU going to do to get through to the other side with those you care about?

Be me - it's all I can do.
But...I must be missing something because what's that got to do with what Bill said that you took issue with?

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Teakai, again you are correct, but you are missing something.
The environment is going to be devastated, who really cares who did what?
Who cares why they did it?
The population WILL be reduced down to a small number and not that far away.
What are YOU going to do to get through to the other side with those you care about?

Be me - it's all I can do.
But...I must be missing something because what's that got to do with what Bill said that you took issue with?

This is THE big picture.
As I said, bill provided us all with an opportunity on a plate.
I took it.
I got your attention, you see what I am on about.
We can't work towards a solution whilst we are divided, can we?
Didn't I do this to you guys on the wormtongue thread?

[Donna O]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I don't want you to think anything specific, I would like you guys to think about the issues we are having.
Why did camelot split into two?
Why did avalon split into two?
How far are we going to let all this go?
How do we fix these issues if we don't know what the cause is?
We know of the posts at nexus, that is yet another symptom of this whole thing.
And the mods and bill are not wrong, some of the posts are not right.

Hi Lord Sidious, can I ask you to not re-hash the whole of Avalon's history on this thread, it isn't relevant. What are you trying to say Bill did that contributed to the break-up of Camelot?

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Donna O (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
I don't want you to think anything specific, I would like you guys to think about the issues we are having.
Why did camelot split into two?
Why did avalon split into two?
How far are we going to let all this go?
How do we fix these issues if we don't know what the cause is?
We know of the posts at nexus, that is yet another symptom of this whole thing.
And the mods and bill are not wrong, some of the posts are not right.

Hi Lord Sidious, can I ask you to not re-hash the whole of Avalon's history on this thread, it isn't relevant. What are you trying to say Bill did that contributed to the break-up of Camalot?

You can ask, of course.
I will do what I have to do and this thread is here for us to discuss various issues.
I don't know what bill ''did'' there.
And I am not pointing the finger at him as if he is ''bad'' or anything like that.
Go back and read the thread from the beginning if you did not do that yet.
I am trying to unite you all again.
Like I did once before.
Stop thinking about this and just feel.
Like Obi Wan said to Luke in A New Hope, ''Let go of your conscious mind and use your feelings''
I advise you to do the same thing.

On a different note, congratulations on your promotion.
I was going to post that on your profile, but you have the comments disabled.

[yaksuit]

Some "ironic" stand-up comedy from an Australian icon in Austen Tayshus with a guest "comedian".
Austen Tayshus is known for pushing the cultural envelope.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qwb9nZliQ9I

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Teakai, again you are correct, but you are missing something.
The environment is going to be devastated, who really cares who did what?
Who cares why they did it?
The population WILL be reduced down to a small number and not that far away.
What are YOU going to do to get through to the other side with those you care about?

Be me - it's all I can do.
But...I must be missing something because what's that got to do with what Bill said that you took issue with?

This is THE big picture.
As I said, bill provided us all with an opportunity on a plate.
I took it.
I got your attention, you see what I am on about.
We can't work towards a solution whilst we are divided, can we?
Didn't I do this to you guys on the wormtongue thread?

Pffft! What evrrrrr!!

You got yourself into a corner didn't you?

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
This is THE big picture.
As I said, bill provided us all with an opportunity on a plate.
I took it.
I got your attention, you see what I am on about.
We can't work towards a solution whilst we are divided, can we?
Didn't I do this to you guys on the wormtongue thread?

Pffft! What evrrrrr!!

You got yourself into a corner didn't you?

Erm, no, I am exactly where I want to be, thanks for asking.
By all means, laugh.
You have five to ten years more.
Then you won't laugh.
Do something now, let go of what you think I am doing and open your mind.

[Donna O]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)

Posted by Donna O (here)
Hi Lord Sidious, can I ask you to not re-hash the whole of Avalon's history on this thread, it isn't relevant. What are you trying to say Bill did that contributed to the break-up of Camalot?

You can ask, of course.
I will do what I have to do and this thread is here for us to discuss various issues.
I don't know what bill ''did'' there.
And I am not pointing the finger at him as if he is ''bad'' or anything like that.
Go back and read the thread from the beginning if you did not do that yet.
I am trying to unite you all again.
Like I did once before.
Stop thinking about this and just feel.
Like Obi Wan said to Luke in A New Hope, ''Let go of your conscious mind and use your feelings''
I advise you to do the same thing.

On a different note, congratulations on your promotion.
I was going to post that on your profile, but you have the comments disabled.

Again, it comes down to people making their own interpretation when reading posts, I don’t believe you have any ill intentions Lord Sidious, but a person could easily assume you were taking shots at Bill by bringing Avalon and Camelot’s split into the thread. Most people know nothing about what actually happened so I don’t believe it is relevant here.

Thank you for your congratulations Lord Sid I didn’t realize I had comments disabled.

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Donna O (here)
Again, it comes down to people making their own interpretation when reading posts, I don’t believe you have any ill intentions Lord Sidious, but a person could easily assume you were taking shots at Bill by bringing Avalon and Camelot’s split into the thread. Most people know nothing about what actually happened so I don’t believe it is relevant here.

Thank you for your congratulations Lord Sid I didn’t realize I had comments disabled.

I think it is relevant, it is just that I don't have all the info on it.
Yes, people could think I am doing that and some/lots do.
That is ok, that is where they are at for now.
I am rocking the boat to try and bring the issues to a head so that we can deal with them, not let them fester on and on.
And you are welcome, being a mod isn't as easy as some might think, especially on a forum with this much traffic.

[Teakai]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Erm, no, I am exactly where I want to be, thanks for asking.
By all means, laugh.
You have five to ten years more.
Then you won't laugh.
Do something now, let go of what you think I am doing and open your mind.

What I think you're doing?

What are you doing?

I see you demanded an apology from Bill. But if your motives are as you say they are, then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

[DoubleHelix]

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
You have five to ten years more.

Can I ask who or what your source of information is for you to come to such a conclusion ???

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Teakai (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
Erm, no, I am exactly where I want to be, thanks for asking.
By all means, laugh.
You have five to ten years more.
Then you won't laugh.
Do something now, let go of what you think I am doing and open your mind.

What I think you're doing?

What are you doing?

I see you demanded an apology from Bill. But if your motives are as you say they are, then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

That is an excellent question.
I have said that he presented me with the opportunity to do this, but not just for me, for all of us.
So yes, thanks Bill, much appreciated.

Posted by DoubleHelix (here)

Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
You have five to ten years more.

Can I ask who or what your source of information is for you to come to such a conclusion ???

Atticus.

[DevilPigeon]

Posted by Teakai (here)
...then shouldn't you have thanked him instead for the opportunity you feel he gave you to expand on the bigger picture?

No, no, no! This to me is an example of one of the issues. The problems are being bypassed, not addressed, and also turning it into a falsely positive outcome!