Posted by Strat
(here)
Posted by Flash
(here)
Despite all the thanks you had, I think you are beside the track Strat. I don't think Lord Sidious intent to be right, I think the intentions are elsewhere.
Also, the separativeness programmation is soooooooo ingrained in us that you made 2 here: age differences, and being a MAN . What difference does it make if you are a man or a woman. This is all the same, nobody likes to be forced into excuses no? Why an older person could not be stupid if he desires so, or have some flaws, as a young one (although I don't think Lord Sidious is in these posts)?.
Well, personnally, I think this is precisely what Lord Sidious is talking about, those ingrained programmation we have, the language we unconsciously use representing them, the images we unconsciously produce in our minds, the separations we provoke with it, without even seeing it.
Correct me if I am wong.
I don't mean to correct you, so much as make my perspective clear to everyone.
great
Where you said "LS doesn't intend to be right, his intentions are elsewhere," I don't know what you mean. Why wouldn't you want to be right?
because it is not needed nor wise or sage, it would only spur conflicts for what he intend to do. His intents are mentioned in the last paragraph of my post, he would be wrong to be right.
I'm going to address the age thing as well as the 'man' thing.
I said to him that I didn't want to come across as pious because I'm younger than him: I imagine, statistically, older people have more wisdom and often more knowledge in general than younger. I know it's not black and white like that, but many perceive it that way. I was raised this way. Many people don't like having a young buck giving them advice. Is that programming? Maybe. The fact is that it's very common in society and if he felt that way I wanted to make sure I didn't offend him.
That is very kind of you and also wise to try to prevent perilous situations and have enough empathy to try to put yourself in someone's else shoes. However, I could easily say that a lot of very young bucks as you say have tought me unimaginable, heartful, intelligent things. Yes you have been raised that way, it may be programming, and we can all surpass this here on the forum - your advices are always welcome.
Right now a lot of people are jumping on him. I wanted to make it clear that I am aware I likely have less life experience. I said it out of respect for him. If he were one of the people that falls under the statistic of not liking young guys giving advice, my comment would alleviate that. From there, he knows I'm trying to help, not attack like others. I don't know him, so I'm crossing my t's and dotting my i's so that I don't offend his sensibilities. What's so wrong with that?
Nothing wrong, it shows prudence, wise behavior and empathy.
There has to be some level where age matters. Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel as though my niece has a lot of wisdom. She's cute, but she doesn't know much about life. This is why I try to teach and protect her. So the counter-argument is, "well that's a 3 year old that doesn't count." OK, fair enough, where do we draw the line? Teens? 20s? People translate this differently and I try not to excite sensibilities.
You are great in your way of thinking, please do not change it. Yes age counts for the experience, for the teaching, for the mentoring, yet, younger people can bring so much and most wise old person won't mind the comments and sometimes unstudied advices of youngsters, they do understand. And they love the youngsters' implication in this world.
I am not an 'ageist.' If I came across that way then I apologize I wasn't more clear. I really try hard to be articulate, I pride myself in this (this post is taking 30+ minutes). I will say it again, I am not an ageist, and I won't get into a semantical argument about this.
I believe you, I just took your words to make a point, we often use words that carry meanings and actions we are not even aware of, every single one of us has this kind of programming, no reproach here.
For the 'man' thing: Maybe this is programming. You may absolutely, be 100% correct. If it is programming, it needs to be acknowledged and we can't attack sensibilities just because they shouldn't exist. We must be compassionate and understanding to change the programming. If you don't address sensibilities like this you will face aggression real quick. If someone walks up to me in the bar, slaps the beer out of my hand and curses my mother, I'll punch them in the chin. If you do this to a girl, she may hit you, or she may get her boyfriend or a man she's with. This has been going on since humans realized they can get drunk. Guys love establishing dominance, OF COURSE this is not all guys, but in general. This is open to debate, though I feel it's not 50/50. Most guys would love to be the knight in shining armor, Superman, or whatever. The star, the guy nobody messes with.
I completely agree with this whole paragraph. about the program and all. However, there is something glorious about the protective knight in his white armor, the dream of every girl. The problem is not with positive roles and love shown through protection, the problem is with unconscious programming leading to biaises. As soon as it becomes conscious, this is a whole different game, this is consciousness. Once again, I took your writing to make a point, nothing against you, on the contrary, thanks for being useful.
Again, you may be right, the more I think about it, I agree with you. Growing up I participated in martial arts. This is probably because I wanted to be the billy bad ass I saw on TV. There are millions upon millions of guys like this. To be the knight in shinning armor, you have to know how to throw a jab-hook, 1-2.
love this, this is delightful conciousness, you see. It would not stop you from liking martial arts, wanting to be the knight and throwing a jab-hook, all in consciousness. This becomes a different game.
This may be a backwards, perverse part of society but it is ingrained in the minds of MEN. Many of us are highly likely to rail against any perceived aggression, puff the chest out kind of thing. Here's the thing, even if I am aware of it, and train myself to be a calm person, it's the 'clutch time' that counts. Many men can be understanding, though when someone starts telling them what to do something happens in their brain. Adrenalin starts getting released and that old 'monkey pounding on the chest' instinct comes out of us. Often times, people (men and women I know, I know) get into discussions, then it evolves into resisting the angry emotions. This is where emotion starts to cloud thoughts. It's natural. I think men have a higher probability to 'pound the chest' than women. I do find that odd, because it seems women have a hard time making friends with other women. Maybe the girls I know are crazy, anyway..
you are right about women and women, they are often competing ferociously, in a different way. When you are conscious of it, this is a different game, it is an assumed game, fully responsible game. And you know what, the need for pounding on the chest or ferouscious competition then disappear as per miracle.
So the answer is compassion. It's this knee-jerk reaction that causes fights. LS didn't show compassion or awareness of what I'm talking about in his derogatory posts. He went straight to the chest beating. I will say though, the last few times he's defended himself he has done so with the up most class. He has been calm and articulate and I salute him for that, it probably isn't easy.
You are entirely right here except that SL was doing the pounding deliberately, consciously, to deliver a point.
You're free to call me sexist, but I'm not, that's just not true. If any of you ladies are offended I am sorry. I've never in my life been called a sexist. I won't discuss this in this thread either. If you'd like, I'd be willing to discuss it in a new thread, or in PM. I don't want to derail this thread but I seriously don't like the idea of being perceived as a sexist.
I do like knights in shining armour, this is not sexist. thanks for helping me deliver my point about programming.
So if you and LS are aware of programming at this level, you guys should set the examples. I do not feel in his earlier posts with Bill he set a positive example. I feel he went into the chest beating response. You need to practice what you preach or nobody will listen.
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