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Thread: Good & Bad, does it really exist ?

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    Avalon Member Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    It's all about yourself. You decide! Duality is what this is all about. Whatever you perceive is what is and whatever you want to perceive will or could be! Right and wrong simply reflect upon the decision you've already made. There are things that give you comfort, but that does not necessarily mean that they are "good". The same goes vice versa of course. As it was said earlier: "good" and "bad" as words do not have any real meaning without the experience that is "to be alive and to be conscious about beeing conscious" and thats brings me back to were I started: you decide!

    To answer your question. Yes there are things I consider to be "good" and there are things I consider to be "bad". So they do exist. They do exist because I can perceive them. Just as every stone I can throw or three that I can touch. But in the end I know nothing really exists. Not the three and not the stone, but for now I just have to deal with them as they all were "real".

    Martin
    Last edited by Martin; 12th June 2011 at 22:09.

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    Canada Avalon Retired Member Karma Ninja's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    One does not need to scratch deep into any person to see we are animals at our purest. Beyond good and evil and understanding that they are all in the same.

    Peace! ...or unrest...whichever you prefer!

    ;o)

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Quote Posted by Davidallany (here)
    Quote This will depend on motivation and capacity/understanding.
    There are varying levels of perception.
    They are stepping stones.
    One can use the same words but at each
    level the meaning can change, become more accurate.

    People need encouragement, when they reach a certain level of understanding,
    then it's time to refine. What was satisfying, is no longer satisfying.

    Tony
    How can one refine perception and reach the other levels, Tony? can you please explain more for our benefit. When you talk about motives I am thinking thus" Is it good to have a bad motive if the action is trivial or the thing one says is to hurt others in a very small way? "
    Thank you.
    Well, let's take the negative emotions.

    At the ground level, negative emotions control us.

    At the next level negative emotions are to be avoided. People can cover one anger up, but it is still there.

    At the next level we find an anti-dote for the negative emotions. For anger we use compassion. But the negative emotion still arises.

    At the next level the negative emotions are seen as medicine. That anger is mirror-like wisdom. The first instant of the mirror reflecting is pure consciousness = wisdom. Anger is still there, but serves as a reminder.

    At the next level the negative emotion is seen as never existing in the first place. There is just pure consciousness.

    At the next level everything is the cosmic joke! The seeming real, isn't!


    All the best

    Tony

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Let’s put it this way if this bunch of individuals i am going to list below had not come along then i truly believe we would be very bad by now. Sorry slightly off topic

    Skeptics never believe in things that they cannot see or don't understand (Good or Bad). The scientific community is filled with these idiot types. If it wasn't for the bright minds of Copernicus, Newton, and Einstein, we'd still be in the dark ages and thing would be very bad dependant on your own beliefs. No one wanted to believe that the world was round or that light and space time were relative, and that the speed of light was absolute. So let me explain it to you... There are beings out there that are much smarter than you or I (Now that could be a good thing) . Their capacity of thinking goes beyond that of any computer here on earth, and they probably understand that it's better to be compassionate than some selfish, skeptical, and self-loving brute . Humans on the individual scale we think that we're unique and complicated individuals, having understood and seen things that know one understands (a typical teenager's view of the world). Instead, some other intelligences out there have seen this all in the matter of a second in their life, since their larger brains can make up for such a small life as is ours. To go a million or even several million light years isn't that hard to imagine to these ones
    Last edited by The One; 13th June 2011 at 13:27.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    crownme,

    Unfortunately you made me read this twice!

    I even tried to read it a 3rd time, just to make sure of what I was reading? I gave up though!

    I've read some out there posts in my time at Avalon!

    What the Hell are you talking about! What is your TRUE message?

    Will anyone here at Avalon try to explain to me, what this is all about?
    Last edited by jackovesk; 13th June 2011 at 15:16.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Ellu

    im sorry if i worded my post in a unredable way for you :/

    deffently not my intention.

    ok what i am talking about. i meet this subject everyday. the ones im around talk about good and bad each day. and they seem to love to talk about all other they meet.

    so that have made me wonder, is there relly good & bad ?

    my true message isnt complicated, i want discussion so i can read all the wonderful posts ive gotten about this subject. its made me expand my thought pattern within this subject.

    vetted.. i actually had to look up the word you used here to make shure i remmembered the use of this word
    *Vetting is a process of examination and evaluation, generally referring to performing a background check on someone before offering him or her employment, conferring an award, etc. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.*

    with that in mind, i didnt really know an evaluation of me was needed for this forum. you want me gone ? it is just as easy as to ask me to leave you know if your ego cant handle me. i have no worries about leaving if you ask me.

    namaste

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    Canada Avalon Member exchange student's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    The following story is an urban legend that my philosophy teacher showed us, to demonstrate that Bad is only the absence of Good. I Hope that this opens your mind to the subject. Enjoy!




    The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists?  A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"  "God created everything? The professor asked.  "Yes sir", the student replied.  The professor answered, “ If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer.
     
    The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.  Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"  "Of course", replied the professor. 
    The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"  "What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.  The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.  Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

    The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"  The professor responded, "Of course it does."  The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colours and study the various wavelengths of each colour. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

    Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"  Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man!.  It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."  To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness
    and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

     
    The professor sat down.

    The young man's name - Albert Einstein.

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    Australia Avalon Member jackovesk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Quote Posted by crownme (here)
    Ellu

    im sorry if i worded my post in a unredable way for you :/

    deffently not my intention.

    ok what i am talking about. i meet this subject everyday. the ones im around talk about good and bad each day. and they seem to love to talk about all other they meet.

    so that have made me wonder, is there relly good & bad ?

    my true message isnt complicated, i want discussion so i can read all the wonderful posts ive gotten about this subject. its made me expand my thought pattern within this subject.

    vetted.. i actually had to look up the word you used here to make shure i remmembered the use of this word
    *Vetting is a process of examination and evaluation, generally referring to performing a background check on someone before offering him or her employment, conferring an award, etc. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.*

    with that in mind, i didnt really know an evaluation of me was needed for this forum. you want me gone ? it is just as easy as to ask me to leave you know if your ego cant handle me. i have no worries about leaving if you ask me.

    namaste
    My apologies crownme,

    I did not bother to look at your Country of origin and did not realise English is not your native language!

    Forgive me, I should not have jumped to conclusions so fast...

    And Welcome to the forum...

    I just could'nt understand what you were trying to say...

    Jack
    Last edited by jackovesk; 13th June 2011 at 15:14.

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    Costa Rica Avalon Member ulli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Ok, crownme, I think it's time someone puts that crown on your head. Your avatar looks like you are asking for it.
    Are you ready to wear your crown?

    Then you better figure out quickly what is the difference between good and bad, because your subjects will judge you
    And if you don't live up to their expectations, you are not only going to lose that crown again, but also your head.

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    Avalon Member Peace of Mind's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    This is about perception, but you can do what ever you want in this life; just don’t hurt anyone else in the process if you're not prepared to handle the boomerang effect...ricochets can be most unfortunate.

    Possibilities are endless, creativity even more so. We are either builders or destroyers…the choice is always yours.

    Peace

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Quote Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
    This is about perception, but you can do what ever you want in this life; just don’t hurt anyone else in the process if you're not prepared to handle the boomerang effect...ricochets can be most unfortunate.

    Possibilities are endless, creativity even more so. We are either builders or destroyers…the choice is always yours.

    Peace

    Everything built, will be destroyed.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    its no worries Jack. i understand if you were mad for not understanding me, i would too ask if i didnt understand something

    namaste

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    uhmm waves o/

    what are you talking about crown ? exuse me are you so shallow you think you can read who i am just by my name and profile ? o.O are you suffering from something ? taking medication ? (actually serious question)

    i do not lay anything about me being crowned in that nickname. and if you notice there is not a <Space> in Crownme.

    and again you judge me as you know me.. i need to figgure out what is good and bad ? uhm by who's deffinition ? yours ? god's? president ? a piece of paper? who ?
    and my subjects will judge me ? you know what, if you are so pro judging, go ahead and judge me, that is not on my head. live with it.

    i dont want any crowd or followers if that is what you are refferring too. i dont want anyone hanging onto my questions or words, they are there becouse i want to expand. i do not follow anyone, and i do not lead anyone.

    can i ask you a question ? why are you mad at me ? why are you so passionate towards me when you dont even know a fragment about me ?

    ahm yeah one thing, if i should define good and bad on this planet i do indeed know what you are talking about, does not meen i have to agree with you just becouse you get into a fit and want something your way.

    namaste
    Last edited by crownme; 13th June 2011 at 16:21.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Good and Evil are just based on the desire to oppose something. Just a way to balance that which is not in sync, perceptually and contextually.

    That said, I go by feelings more so then boundaries. Or I try to. If only for the simple fact that it keeps the my own story going as well as what I perceive.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Here are some thoughts that might have been appropriate for another bigger thread (you know the one I mean), but I prefer to air them here as a concrete example of what is being discussed in this thread.

    Inelia describes what she does as sitting with the dark force and bringing light to it. This sounds like a useful description of the ‘good’ that many here are trying to do, each in their own way. Now some say Inelia is not what she claims to be. If I may say so, as a mere forum user, what Inelia does is of no concern to me. If she doesn’t practise what she preaches, what is that to me if what she preaches on this forum resonates with me?

    She might then have personal issues with good and bad – how a ‘bad’ person can be doing ‘good’ – like Graham Greene’s whisky priest in ‘The Power and the Glory’. But you can turn it around: how can a person doing ‘good’ be in any way ‘bad’?

    Ultimately, when you sit with the dark force, you are just acknowledging that the dark force is within yourself. So don’t judge Inelia: you would be judging yourself.

    The above of course also applies to Bill Ryan. But as the owner of this forum, his case is a little more complex, as we are affected by his practice as well as by his ‘preaching’. Several people who formerly loved the man have focused on the idea of censorship by him as being the thing that made everything go pear-shaped. One person (probably on Nexus) even equates censorship with fraud.

    So in this analysis of good and bad let’s take censorship as one instance of ‘bad’. In the half-hour of audio where Bill is apologizing to Charles (who says Bill doesn’t do apologizing? You could have fooled me!), Charles makes it known that this ‘Q&A interview’ does not have his approval and that he would have preferred not to have given the earlier video interview either - the one he gave after months and months of delaying.

    Normally speaking, Avalon and Camelot witnesses are in the business of seeking out an audience for as much as they dare reveal. This one was in the business of self-censorship coupled with effective censorship of Bill, who as far as I know was getting nothing else done during this time either.

    This leads to an interesting paradox - Bill was wanting to release uncensored info (already no doubt to combat Charles’ behind-the-scenes influence by being upfront – this is what he does) while the mods and others were claiming that their misgivings were being… censored. Even back then, their misgivings were in actual fact aligned with Charles’ own wish to say as little as he could get away with. In other words, silencing Charles amounted to silencing Bill. The real censors were the ones crying foul.

    This is how I see Bill’s interests coming temporarily and perfectly innocently into alignment with Charles’. He was just doing his job, treating him like a normal witness, coaxing him into saying things he perhaps did not want to say, not for fear of reprisal like the others, but for fear of giving his little game away, as indeed he did for many.

    Was Bill being duplicitous, i.e. mixing ‘good’ and ‘evil’? Yes, but not towards his friends at Avalon!

    Kerry Cassidy recently released a video of Neil Armstrong in which she suggests he blinks the word LIE in morse code. I would suggest that Bill was acting uncharacteristically highhandedly for similar reasons: Charles was and is a very real threat and not acting alone, and giving him a microphone was the only way to escape his unsolicited and unwanted influence.

    This is one possible explanation for the probably mistaken impression some people are getting of Bill Ryan somehow being a ‘fraud’. Bill may have different explanation. Either way, don’t judge him: you would be judging yourself.

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    Ecuador Avalon Member Davidallany's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Quote Here are some thoughts that might have been appropriate for another bigger thread (you know the one I mean), but I prefer to air them here as a concrete example of what is being discussed in this thread.

    Inelia describes what she does as sitting with the dark force and bringing light to it. This sounds like a useful description of the ‘good’ that many here are trying to do, each in their own way. Now some say Inelia is not what she claims to be. If I may say so, as a mere forum user, what Inelia does is of no concern to me. If she doesn’t practise what she preaches, what is that to me if what she preaches on this forum resonates with me?

    She might then have personal issues with good and bad – how a ‘bad’ person can be doing ‘good’ – like Graham Greene’s whisky priest in ‘The Power and the Glory’. But you can turn it around: how can a person doing ‘good’ be in any way ‘bad’?

    Ultimately, when you sit with the dark force, you are just acknowledging that the dark force is within yourself. So don’t judge Inelia: you would be judging yourself.

    The above of course also applies to Bill Ryan. But as the owner of this forum, his case is a little more complex, as we are affected by his practice as well as by his ‘preaching’. Several people who formerly loved the man have focused on the idea of censorship by him as being the thing that made everything go pear-shaped. One person (probably on Nexus) even equates censorship with fraud.

    So in this analysis of good and bad let’s take censorship as one instance of ‘bad’. In the half-hour of audio where Bill is apologizing to Charles (who says Bill doesn’t do apologizing? You could have fooled me!), Charles makes it known that this ‘Q&A interview’ does not have his approval and that he would have preferred not to have given the earlier video interview either - the one he gave after months and months of delaying.

    Normally speaking, Avalon and Camelot witnesses are in the business of seeking out an audience for as much as they dare reveal. This one was in the business of self-censorship coupled with effective censorship of Bill, who as far as I know was getting nothing else done during this time either.

    This leads to an interesting paradox - Bill was wanting to release uncensored info (already no doubt to combat Charles’ behind-the-scenes influence by being upfront – this is what he does) while the mods and others were claiming that their misgivings were being… censored. Even back then, their misgivings were in actual fact aligned with Charles’ own wish to say as little as he could get away with. In other words, silencing Charles amounted to silencing Bill. The real censors were the ones crying foul.

    This is how I see Bill’s interests coming temporarily and perfectly innocently into alignment with Charles’. He was just doing his job, treating him like a normal witness, coaxing him into saying things he perhaps did not want to say, not for fear of reprisal like the others, but for fear of giving his little game away, as indeed he did for many.

    Was Bill being duplicitous, i.e. mixing ‘good’ and ‘evil’? Yes, but not towards his friends at Avalon!

    Kerry Cassidy recently released a video of Neil Armstrong in which she suggests he blinks the word LIE in morse code. I would suggest that Bill was acting uncharacteristically highhandedly for similar reasons: Charles was and is a very real threat and not acting alone, and giving him a microphone was the only way to escape his unsolicited and unwanted influence.

    This is one possible explanation for the probably mistaken impression some people are getting of Bill Ryan somehow being a ‘fraud’. Bill may have different explanation. Either way, don’t judge him: you would be judging yourself.
    Great analysis, araucaria, thank you for the easy read yet in depth examination.

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    Ecuador Avalon Member Davidallany's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Quote At the ground level, negative emotions control us.

    At the next level negative emotions are to be avoided. People can cover one anger up, but it is still there.

    At the next level we find an anti-dote for the negative emotions. For anger we use compassion. But the negative emotion still arises.

    At the next level the negative emotions are seen as medicine. That anger is mirror-like wisdom. The first instant of the mirror reflecting is pure consciousness = wisdom. Anger is still there, but serves as a reminder.

    At the next level the negative emotion is seen as never existing in the first place. There is just pure consciousness.

    At the next level everything is the cosmic joke! The seeming real, isn't!


    All the best

    Tony
    Can you tell where you got this information from Tony? also can you name those levels in English please. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    This is tricky.

    Being good or bad is surely a matter of intent. We know ourselves whether we mean good or whether we mean bad. But the way our acts are construed .... that is what's tricky and that's where our perspective comes in. So I think good and bad boils down to intent and perspective .....

    Sounds really simple, but it ain't.

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    Of course there is , and not !

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    Default Re: Good & Bad, does it relly exist ?

    All you need is GOOSE FRA BA

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