Was Sitchin wrong?

[christian]

Posted by HURRITT ENYETO (here)
If only it were a simple matter of semantics or getting a interpretation wrong the fact of the matter is that a lot of Sitchins work is just that, HIS INTERPRETATION.

For instance nowhere in the Sumerian tablets does it say that Nibiru is a planet (and that's a pretty big detail to get wrong or 'interpret'.
When these things were pointed out to him he either refused to discuss it or stuck to his version of the tablets being the only version that was true.
All i am saying is that it is more than mere miss translations.

You are right. But how to translate it all right and then interpret all of it right (translation is to some degree interpretation anyways)? And if you want to be sure of everything, you will have to cut your analysis of the tablets very short, if you want to proceed, you have to speculate. So everyone is entitled to his opinion there, I figure.

So a sober peer review is of course appreciated, but please no more Sitchin bashing, I read that so often.

[HURRITT ENYETO]

Posted by chiquetet (here)

Posted by HURRITT ENYETO (here)
If only it were a simple matter of semantics or getting a interpretation wrong the fact of the matter is that a lot of Sitchins work is just that, HIS INTERPRETATION.

For instance nowhere in the Sumerian tablets does it say that Nibiru is a planet (and that's a pretty big detail to get wrong or 'interpret'.
When these things were pointed out to him he either refused to discuss it or stuck to his version of the tablets being the only version that was true.
All i am saying is that it is more than mere miss translations.

You are right. But how to translate it all right and then interpret all of it right (translation is to some degree interpretation anyways)? And if you want to be sure of everything, you will have to cut your analysis of the tablets very short, if you want to proceed, you have to speculate. So everyone is entitled to his opinion there, I figure.

So a sober peer review is of course appreciated, but please no more Sitchin bashing, I read that so often.

You are also right my friend and i apologize if i appeared to be Sitchen bashing, i can assure you that was not my intention,
I have great respect for the man and as already stated if it were not for his efforts many would never even have heard of the Sumerian tablets (which are mindbogglingly awesome in their own right) May he rest in peace.

Hurritt

[Tony]

What this does throwing up, is this forum.

Sometimes this forum reads like Facebook, just speculation on hearsay! Some threads are very important with their questioning and investigation, but seem to get hijacked by smug quips. There are now some writers I just do not go near as they are just involved in trivial pursuits. I do not believe a word they say, so it is of no interest. I'm sure others feel the same way about me!

I didn't know that there was another thread like this one, because on taking a quick look at it, it too was going off at a tangent.

I know from others, that there is genuine fear, about hearing all this stuff, and do not know what is true and what is not. Then one reads someone smugly saying “I'm not frightened why should you be?” Fear is a normal human experience, do not look down your nose at them!

If Sitchin is wrong then a lot of this is information could be wrong, and only promotes falling into the hands of disinformation. If anything is important in life, this situation we face is it. It's not good coming back at me with, “Oh no it's not.” Explain your thoughts properly.

Then one reads, “We are all going to ascend!” Where on earth did you get that from? It's no point saying, “Someone told me.” It doesn't make that true. I do not care how many angels you think you are seeing.

The mind is very tricky character. We have two ends of fantasy land going on here.

[gabbahh]

Are there any other known translations of the Sumerian Tablets?

[gabbahh]

Posted by gabbahh (here)
Are there any other known translations of the Sumerian Tablets?

After some searching:
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/edition2/etcslbycat.php
is the page where you can select translations of the the tablets.

Too quick, once more.

Just did a search for Nibru on that site and these are the many results:
http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin...c=gcirc&lists=

Note: I assumed that Nibru = Nibiru, since I could not find any references to Nibiru

[TraineeHuman]

The reason why Sitchin's work is well known is that a publisher financed its publication. It would be interesting to know what the publisher's links are. There are and have been a number of far more accurate and, I understand, more talented Sumerian scholars than Sitchin. Why didn't that publisher support one of them instead?

[Cidersomerset]

Hi pie'n'eal The Sitchin/Annunaki story is one of the fundamental linch pins of human/alian
interaction and inspired many of us to look in that direction and a lot of it makes sence.....
The trouble is like everything with only his research to rely on it is open to his personal
interpretation.....So I have always thought we need corroboration....

Michael Tellinger is starting to come into it from a different angle ,again full of personal bias,
which is natural..I feel there is deffinately a lot in the Summarian tablets about our ancestry
and alian contact....That was the reason we invaded Iraq......Saddam had absolutaly nothing
to do with 9/11.. and the reason the national museam was targeted ,against all military logic..

This Michael Heieser may have some valid critisms ,but he is far to negative for my liking
Here is a link to a late 2010 interview with Michael Heieser on the 'Truth Frequency' radio with .

Chris & Cheree..... Cheers ..Steve

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mf2DfyKQjhU

http://truthfrequencyradio.com/archives/2269

[Operator]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
I do not believe a word they say, so it is of no interest.

Here's an anecdote/riddle:

You arrived at a crossroad and you have to make a decision to turn left or to turn right.
At the crossroad there are 2 brothers. One is always telling the truth, the other one always lies.
You can ask one of them one question. How would you find out which way to go ?

Now here's the solution: Ask one of them which way his brother would point out to be the right road.
If you happen to ask the truth teller he would know his brother would lie and point in the wrong direction.
If you happen to ask the liar he would know his brother would point the right direction but lies about it.

So there may still be value in listening to liars ... but you have to know that they are lying.

Here's another interesting phrase from Michael Tsarion related to the sentence above:
"Don't blame someone for selling you a lie, blame yourself for buying it" (Perhaps not his exact words).

So liars are interesting people, they are the ones most likely to reveal agendas !

[Tony]

Posted by Operator (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
I do not believe a word they say, so it is of no interest.

Here's an anecdote/riddle:

You arrived at a crossroad and you have to make a decision to turn left or to turn right.
At the crossroad there are 2 brothers. One is always telling the truth, the other one always lies.
You can ask one of them one question. How would you find out which way to go ?

Now here's the solution: Ask one of them which way his brother would point out to be the right road.
If you happen to ask the truth teller he would know his brother would lie and point in the wrong direction.
If you happen to ask the liar he would know his brother would point the right direction but lies about it.

So there may still be value in listening to liars ... but you have to know that they are lying.

Here's another interesting phrase from Michael Tsarion related to the sentence above:
"Don't blame someone for selling you a lie, blame yourself for buying it" (Perhaps not his exact words).

So liars are interesting people, they are the ones most likely to reveal agendas !

I like your thinking! But we have all bought into the agenda. If I were a true blue buddhist, then I have only myself to blame.
But someone not only keeps moving the goal post, they keep changing the rules of the game, and the little old lady next door, cannot understand it.

A lie isn't so easy to spot, once it has gone down a line of experts. By the time it has got to us it has turned into a belief system.
Maybe it's not a lie but a partial truth, which satisfies some, so they do not have to think any further. This is done all the time. In fact it is the story of my life as a spiritual seeker.


Now these two brothers. Are they smoking anything strange?

[Calz]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)


Now these two brothers. Are they smoking anything strange?

One might suggest one of the brothers is smoking our fear ... whilst if not for the other we would not be here.

Course ... maybe I am smokin and not even near!!!

Hey that rhymes

[Arpheus]

We have a similar thread on nexus with the sam videos from that Phd guy,i watched all 13 of them and then i went on to do some research on the web,and here is what i found,sitchin is a fraud he is not and never been a linguist you will not be able to find anything about his credentials anywhere because there are none and that speaks volumes,yet he calls himself an expert in sumerian?Is that some sort of joke or what?Anyone can go out there and call themselves an expert in something then go write a book about it,but you better have the feacts and proof to b ack up your work work or else is a pile of junk and BS with vewry little truth in it,i advise anyone who resnotes with his work to go do some googling before defending the man you will be amazed,he is no expert in sumerian and has never been period and thats a FACT.In my opinion he is a minion funded by TPTB to spread disinfo more then anything else and thats the bottom line,feel free to research his credentials you wont find any he has NONE!

[Operator]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
But someone not only keeps moving the goal post, they keep changing the rules of the game, and the little old lady next door, cannot understand it.

Yeah good one. I picture it like this:
It's like observing a kind of chess game. But the rules are far more difficult also there are not only 2 players there are an unknown number of multiple players.
And they're playing not on 1 board but on several layers of boards.
Not all the players are present on all layers and they keep changing the rules.
So try to get everyone on one page with that one ...

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
A lie isn't so easy to spot, once it has gone down a line of experts. By the time it has got to us it has turned into a belief system.

Correct ... it's tough indeed. But wouldn't there be a big change if all of a sudden we're telepathic and could read minds ?
Lies wouldn't stand a chance to survive another second ....

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
Maybe it's not a lie but a partial truth, which satisfies some, so they do not have to think any further.

Most of the time the lie is packaged and wrapped up with some nice looking truth. Otherwise the herd is not going to bite and swallow.
You're not supposed to chew too long (might reveal the content before you swallow).

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
In fact it is the story of my life as a spiritual seeker.

Welcome to the club. I'm pretty sure the club is growing in numbers and in strength
So let's aim for reaching some point within this life

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
Now these two brothers. Are they smoking anything strange?

I am starting to wonder if smoking that stuff is strange indeed. Maybe it's a good habit who knows.

[jimbojp]

Maybye this whole story of two brothers one good, one bad is a myth...
Could they be the same entity, taking on two different roles, with the ability to change roles at any time,
So there is no christ and there is no anti christ maybye its the same entity? Feeding on my ignorance, on my attatchments and aversions.

[Calz]

Posted by jimbojp (here)
Maybye this whole story of two brothers one good, one bad is a myth...
Could they be the same entity, taking on two different roles, with the ability to change roles at any time,
So there is no christ and there is no anti christ maybye its the same entity? Feeding on my ignorance, on my attatchments and aversions.

I started to look into whether or not the Enki/Enlil story came exclusively from Sitchin ... I don't think we can so easily dismiss it.

[Omni connexae!]

Hello all,

From my experience within the New Age/Conspiracy/Truthseeker community (and before you oppose my terminology: I agree I have just lumped it together in a perhaps unjust way. But, I trust you understand what I mean by that, and if so: my terminology has met the purpose, so I kindly ask anyone to not get stuck on that point.) I have found there is a few "archetype" perspectives developed concerning everything regarding the Sitchin, the Annunaki and so on (Some of which have been displayed in this thread already.) :

1. Sitchin is a shill, therefore, cannot be taken seriously.

2. Sitchin is sincere, but given the nature of this research, can never be 100% correct, and we therefore should not discount the research based inconsistencies alone.

3. Science has become a form of dogma, and we can't trust it alone. There is more then meets the eye. If we look for solid proof, we could never find the "truth". This will then be used to somehow solidify, or back up, the claims of someone who talks about things that are metaphysical or "beyond science".

4. Many claim direct experience with such entities and beings. They know what they saw, and no rational way of thinking is seemingly able to discredit absolutely anything they say, because they just know it.

There are many more perspectives, and variations of the above, ofcourse. But in the sake of this conversation, I would like to move on now and address a few points. If you feel the perspectives I have offered don't do them justice, or that I have missed a key "archetype" that should be discussed here, by all means let it be known. Now then..

Hello Chiquetet,

Posted by chiquetet (here)
To put it in a nutshell:

Sitchin compiled a giant load of literature on the Sumerian tablets etc.
How could his every last word and interpretation be correct?
But the major message of an alien race genetically engineering seems clear, as mainstream science cannot account for the sudden birth of the Sumerian civilization and not least for their immense feats in science, art, etc.

Posted by chiquetet (here)
Let me put it in different terms:
Mainstream science accepts only the dogma of evolution, this is everything evolved by itself gradually.
But mainstream science cannot account for the birth or the feats of the Sumerians.
So it is clear as daylight, that there must have been some boost or outside influence.
So when it came to finding the spot in human history, that needs to be examined further, Sitchin hit it, as the Sumerian tablets give a lot of possible answers to that riddle, of course none of us know. But it's safe to say that you must start somewhere when you unravel the history of humanity and he made he great contribution.

I understand you have offered a nutshell of your perspective here.

However, I have a few concerns. In the sake of constructive conversation, I ask for you to back up what you have said before we go further:

1. Why do you suppose that the major message of an alien race genetically engineering seems clear?

2. Why do you suppose that mainstream science cannot offer an understandable account for the sudden birth of Sumerian civilization/science/art?

3. If I may push for elaboration: for what reasons do you liken the scientific theory of evolution to that of a dogma? How are you defining dogma here?

-OmniC

[shijo]

I most definately heard in an interview a while ago(was it with Jordan Maxwell?) who was at one time in business with Mr Sitchin, that his books in various places are labelled under fiction,sounds about right to me.However i enjoyed them all tremendously without having to believe a thing.

[christian]

Posted by Omni connexae! (here)
1. Why do you suppose that the major message of an alien race genetically engineering seems clear?

Out of all the information that can be derived from the clay tablets, the story of the genetic engineering is told pretty detailed and there are the famous illustrations, so that single parts of the whole story may be mistranslated/interpreted, but the story as a whole seems pretty clear, I figure.

Posted by Omni connexae! (here)
2. Why do you suppose that mainstream science cannot offer an understandable account for the sudden birth of Sumerian civilization/science/art?

Well, is there an explanation? Right before the Sumerian civilization came into existence, people were rather primitive and then all of a sudden there were cities and all these scientific and cultural feats, they already knew about the outer planets and when NASA was sending a mission to explore (I think it was) Phobos and some other planet, Sitchin was able to tell them what they would find, based on what he got from the tablets, and he was proven right. How could they have known all that? The tablets give a straight answer, the Annunaki gave them this knowledge.
I'd like to refer to Dr. Arthur Horn's book "Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins". I cannot quote it right now, because I gave it to an American friend, who studies anthropology. Dr. Horn was totally convinced of Darwinism and the theory of evolution, he knew there were flaws in it, but he was sure, by the time there would be evidence, that would fill in the gaps. Then one day he met a psychic accidentally, after the meeting his belief system in general was shattered and he began to open his mind and think outside the box. He then investigated everything beyond the mainstream, that he could find about anthropology, which he taught at university at that time and came up with that book eventually, it's outstanding especially because the in depth comparison between the mainstream view and the alternative viewpoint. I would also refer to that book to answer your third question.

Posted by Omni connexae! (here)
3. for what reasons do you liken the scientific theory of evolution to that of a dogma? How are you defining dogma here?

A theory is a possible explanation. It becomes a dogma, when you say this must be true, although you have no sufficient proof. When you look how the mainstream scientific community deals with the theory of evolution today, I think it's safe to say, that it's a dogma, because every other opinion is ridiculed and condemned and you can virtually get no funds for investigating in any other direction.

[Cidersomerset]

Hi All...just relistened to the Michael Hieser interview .....He is a classic mainline acadmic Skeptic.....Give me the evidence ? , where is it written ? show me sitchens credentials ?....etc..
All valid questions , but again he gives his views on the tablets ...Nowhere are aliens , 12th planet 3,600 eliptical orbits mentioned anywhere...
His take seems to be the ancients were much cleverer than we give them credit for.......They needed no alian tech,to raise the pyrimids ,build massive structures,
He quotes Wally Wallingtons building technique ,which is very clever and something similar could have been usesd to raise large blocks...But I have not seen archaeolical evidence from mainstream sources other than the Egyption 'Shaduf'....It certainly does not explain Balbeck and the larger blocks lifted all over the anciant world....Other questions he just brushes off.....No imagination if you ask me..LOL

Anyway if you have not listened to him before, you should just for balance , and to get frustrated like I did..Lol

Heres Wally Wallingtons Clever Contraption/concept...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bsoYkGb7p28

Another possibility is deffinately mysterious ,was he a genius , did he have help ?
The man who built Coral Castle Florida ,

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KhzC_...eature=related

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Hr9U1cP68eU

CRANE EQUIPMENT (MACHINE HISTORY) ORIGINS OF THE MODERN DAY CRANE

The principles of operation of today's CRANE EQUIPMENT is taken for granted, however, we thought you might be interested in learning a bit about the history of the Crane and its development into the modern age of technology.

CRANE EQUIPMENT ANCIENT EGYPTIAN TECHNOLOGY Image of a shaduf

The problem of lifting heavy objects has preoccupied mankind since ancient times. The earliest representation of CRANE EQUIPMENT appeared during Ramses’ reign in Egypt in 3000 B.C. Although rudimentary, the principles of leverage to lift heavy weights had been mastered!

Image of a shaduf used as early crane equipment in EgyptThe SHADUF consisted of a long, pivoting beam balanced on a vertical support. A heavy weight was attached to one end of the beam and a bucket to the other.

The user pulled the bucket down to the water supply, filled it, then allowed the weight to pull the bucket up. The beam was then rotated to the desired position and the bucket was emptied.

When correctly balanced, the counterweight can support a half-filled bucket, so some effort is used to pull an empty bucket down to the water, but only the same effort is needed to lift a full bucket.


The Shaduf was a water lifting device used by the early Egyptians, particularly in the Nile River Valley civilization. The Nile River flooded every year from July to October but people started preparing for it in May. This time was called Ahket. The floodplain wasImage of a shaduf used by the ancient egyptians 4,250 square miles long and the ecology of the River heavily affected whether or not the civilization was thriving. The flooding took care of soil enrichment for the next year but during the harvest season, an irrigation system was needed. That is why the Shaduf was invented. Farmers from ancient Egypt would turn the the stick, then drop the bucket in the water, lift it up when it was full, and then turn the stick again and set the bucket on land. The shaduf was then used to carry water from the riverbanks to plots of farm land.

Image of a shaduf still used today to draw and lift water

The shaduf was originally developed in ancient Mesopotamia, and appears on a Sargonid seal of c.2000 BC.

Though rudimentary, this early lifting device was the forerunner of what was to become thousands of years later, a sophisticated technology developed over many centuries into the crane equipment used in industry today.

It has been suggested that the massive stones used in building the pyramids of Egypt were raised by an ancient variant of this device.Image of a shaduf used in Africa


It is still used in many rural areas of Egypt, India, Africa and Asia today to draw water for land irrigation.

In India the device is called a denkli, or paecottah.

It is estimated that a shaduf can raise over 2,500 litres of water per day. Shadufs can be used in a series where it is desired to raise water to a height exceeding the range of a single one.
bullet .........See Link below for images

http://mcaleese.com.au/acm/crane_history1.htm


SORRY PIE'N'EAL HAVING FUN GETTING CARRIED AWAY.........AND PROBABLY SHOULD BE>LOL>

[Tony]

Thank you all for keeping this thread sharp!

[sshenry]

Maybe the question we should be asking ourselves isn't whether or not Sitchin was wrong (or right), but why will it concern so many if he is (or isn't)?