Psychological effects of circumcision?

[KosmicKat]

Posted by Snowbird (here)
http://www.circumcision.org/studies.htm

Circumcision harms the developing brain

I knew it!

[Carmody]

Posted by Czarek (here)
anesthesia does not provide benefits you think it does.

The so called 'conscious' mind (with it emphatically is NOT conscious) is shut off from the pressures of the cutting, but the mind below, the unconscious mind the superconscious mind, and the body still suffers.

And thus the break between the conscious mind and the higher self is even more broken and polarized from this act.

It is a specifically forced disconnect of the higher self from the avatar, done at a specific religiously dictated time in the early growth.

Never fear, though, you can reclaim this connection. Simply by finding the moment in the self when it happened, re-visit it...and re-wire the self around it. Reclaim your personal power, your full self.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Think of a religious structure created by a group of beings with higher knowledge, thousands of years ago.

Think of how they may have slightly genetically altered a group so they are capable of more drive, more pressure, and then....take that group and disconnect them from their source of energy so that energy can be driven by this inner control group..like a giant destructive truck, though time, to do their bidding.

Then instill in the group being driven like a vehicle..instill in them the deepest desire to group together, to stay together and never share their genes with anyone.

elevate them in their minds so they can be used as a group to push others around and move about, to control and crush others, other groups.

Instill in their religion and teachings that they have elevation over all others, that they are most favored, and the most important. And polarize it so hard, that the system itself rejects those who do not toe the line and those who do not, exit the system. So the system then self generates and regenerates and maintains concentration of the psychology, physiology and psychosomatic group stability that you desire.

Does this sound familiar?

If one is doing such a thing through a secret grouping so the hands on the controls, the steering wheel... can be passed down, or doing it through prolonged lifetimes, or secreted and secret information..well....does this sound familiar?

Hell, we do this with dogs and cattle, it is easily as possible to do this with people, it's no big deal. The generations of cycling are just a bit longer, for the realization of results. In human terms, it would simply be a slightly longer term plan, is all.

Open your mind to the realities of what is in front of you, no matter how uncomfortable it looks to be.

I could do this with dogs, birds, cats mice, etc..I could start tomorrow and be done and have a totally bizarre hybrid or shifted creature long before I die of old age.

The big problem with purebred dog breeding is exactly this issue and it happens in as little as 10 generations. Problems develop, too much of a shift or regression in the genetics. Entire new dog breeds can and do emerge in as little as 50 years, simply from someone creating a plan -- and getting on with it.

I even considered doing it once, to create highly intelligent dogs. To find and breed dogs specifically and only for intelligence.

So try and see your way to the reality of it. It can be done with humans---- and it has been done with humans.

[chancy]

Posted by Carmody (here)
It is a specifically forced disconnect of the higher self from the avatar, done at a specific religiously dictated time in the early growth.
Think of a religious structure created by a group of beings with higher knowledge, thousands of years ago.
Think of how they may have slightly genetically altered a group so they are capable of more drive, more pressure, and then....take that group and disconnect them from their source of energy so that energy can be driven by this inner control group..like a giant destructive truck, though time, to do their bidding.
Then instill in the group being driven like a vehicle..instill in them the deepest desire to group together, to stay together and never share their genes with anyone.
elevate them in their minds so they can be used as a group to push others around and move about, to control and crush others, other groups.
Instill in their religion and teachings that they have elevation over all others, that they are most favored, and the most important. And polarize it so hard, that the system itself rejects those who do not toe the line and those who do not, exit the system. So the system then self generates and regenerates and maintains concentration of the psychology, physiology and psychosomatic group stability that you desire.
Does this sound familiar?
.

Hello Everyone: I have just read the most bizarre and made up balony that I have ever read on Project Avalon! This is utter bs Carmody! There is NO WAY you can substantiate this and are making it up. At least my posts were the truth about circumcision BUT this is utter BS and you have to know it. IF you don't then shame on you.
I know how I got ragged on for telling the truth BUT no one is saying anything for this complete nonsense that you are spreading in this post. First you try and tell everyone that I am full of it and then put words in my mouth....now you are just plain lying. How do I know this is because of the following:
1. I wasn't cicumcised because of any religion or religious beliefs.
2. My parents were NOT circumcising me because of religious beliefs
3. My kids were NOT circumcised because of religious beliefs or any religion or to be part of the group as you have so eloquently put it.
4. As far as sharing my genes you are again off the mark. My genes have been shared with a woman so far outside my realm of life you are just spreading BS.
My wife is from another part of the planet. Another race. Another time. No belief system at all. Everyone in her family doesn't have circumcision. They never thought it was important even though 98% of the people in her country believe in circumcision for religion beliefs. Her family thinks it's not needed just like not getting your appendix out.
5 None of my family believes that they are elevated or better than anyone else. Our spirtitual beliefs have nothing to do with circumcision.

From what I have read in your posts you appear to be against religion and of course that is your right. You do not have the right to down right lie to people because the post I am referencing is just your own belief and nothing more. To you it's real but to people like myself who actually have had circumcision and my kids it's complete balony!
Why do I say it's balony is because everthing you have said in it is not true from my life and the truth I projected into my posts. IF you want to tell utter balony then tell people it's your opinion or just complete balony such as the above. You can certainly tell us your experiences with circumcision! OH, you don't have any. Why are you such an expert on circumcision since you have never experienced the benefits of it and don't believe in it?
Just for the record I am no expert on circumcision BUT know it's right for my family.
For anyone else they have to do what's right for them and there family.
Chancy

[Deedee]

Carmody says: and thus the break between the conscious mind and the higher self is even more broken and polarized from this act.

It is a specifically forced disconnect of the higher self from the avatar, done at a specific religiously dictated time in the early growth.

Oh my Carmody, it shows you are against Circumcision but the quote above IS going a bit overboard. It is up to people to make their own decision based upon their own research.. but what you say here is coming across as some kind of fear based dis-information... This is exactly where WE need to use our discernment and say now this is absolutely FALSE... Unless you have proof to back this up.. I'm not believing a word of it..

And as for Clancy's posting.. Nothing said from Carmody should be taken "Personally toward you or your beliefs"... Everyone is just voicing their opinion on this thread.

Happy Sunday! DD

[Carmody]

Your reactions are entirely predictable. Thus your dilemma.

[Deedee]

I will also add by saying this: There are many people on this planet "circumcised".. not by their own choice.. but nonetheless you stating that circumcision has cut them from their conscious self and their higher selves leaves them "where"? Into believing that they are somehow not whole? Come on.... There is absolutely no scientific evidence regarding your statement and I hope that people can see past your fear based disinformation.

[HURRITT ENYETO]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
This act has Jewish origins, now bump up to concentration camps, which had thousands of men in them, and a handful of guards. Those men could not overwhelm a handful of guards....because.....they were literally from birth cut off from the energies that would allow it...it sounds bizzare and its a bit more in depth than that but......that's the brief summary.

Please tell me you are not saying that the reason the Jewish prisoners did not revolt is because they were Circumcised?

[chancy]

Posted by Carmody (here)
Your reactions are entirely predictable. Thus your dilemma.

Greetings everyone: First off I must say that I am not offended by ones opinions since we all have them. However I am offended as a truth seeker when people talk as though they are an expert and there is NO facts or for that matter anything to back up the claim(s).

Circumcision is simply a choice of everyone.

This is where I have the problem in that certain individuals and they definitely know who they are talk about topics that are more opinionated than truth or fact. People that read these posts could draw the wrong conclusion for themselves and may end up making the wrong choice or decision based on utter nonsense. Truth is one thing backed up by science or facts however complete speculation is always going to be called what it is and that's plain and simple opinion or even possibly false information for some cause that doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand..
Please keep the topic going BUT tell the truth!

Chancy

[Heyoka_11]

Posted by chancy (here)
Please keep the topic going BUT tell the truth!

chancy my friend, everyone has told the truth so far; the truth according to themselves.

Too many threads on this forum descend into slanging matches due to a failure to distinguish between personal truth (lower case), and Universal Truth (capital).

As obscure as another's truth may be, they are entitled to it, and have every right to express it, as long as they do so with respect. I fear that when you implore others to tell the truth, you are expecting them to express an opinion that agrees with your own. Please correct me if I am in error. It is just they way your posts come across.

Speaking in general now:

The only Universal Truth that should be considered here is that we are all free moral agents, and have every right to decide our own courses of action. Every parent has charge over their children, and can decide for themselves if circumcision is appropriate. It matters not if we "know" in our heart of hearts that we are right, and another is wrong. We can express our opinions to another, but we must respect their God given right to do as they choose. They alone will live the consequences of their decisions, be they ultimately right or wrong. And yes, this extends to a parents right to circumcise their child, even if, ultimately, harm is caused. They are the parent, they have every right. If anyone finds that hard to swallow, tough! Grow up!

I spent too many years, and wasted far too much energy, feeling personally offended simply because someone else "failed" to agree with my opinions. I would take it as an attack on my "integrity", and heaven knows I would go on the offensive. What an utter distraction! Nothing more than ego.

Best wishes to all,

Tony.

[chancy]

Posted by Heyoka_11 (here)

Posted by chancy (here)
Please keep the topic going BUT tell the truth!

chancy my friend, everyone has told the truth so far; the truth according to themselves.
As obscure as another's truth may be, they are entitled to it, and have every right to express it, as long as they do so with respect. I fear that when you implore others to tell the truth, you are expecting them to express an opinion that agrees with your own. Please correct me if I am in error. It is just they way your posts come across
Tony.

Hello Heyoka_11: Thanks for the lesson in truth. Actually truth from personal experience is more truth than not agreeing with the other person simply because they believe it's wrong and sadistic.
I knew from the get go that being flamed would be on the side of those that agree with circumcision. I can speak from experience having been circumcised myself and also from asking my kids how they feel and if there were any psychological effects of circumcision.
The answer was a firm NO.
How that goes to me feeling threatened or pushing someones buttons is beyond my scope of reality.
When someone blatantly admits that they do not agree with circumcision but has not or will not enter into their realm then I know that they are against it and the only truth that they have in regards to circumcision is from someone else.or none at all.

Now speaking in general

Everyone has a right to their own opinion(s) BUT not at the expense of truth. When a persons truth is just babble and has nothing to do with the topic then I will always stand up to that.
My personal opinion does not have to be coddled since I am not on an ego trip. Only a trip of finding the truth. The truth is that as far as my family is concerned there is NO psychological effects of circumcision.
End of story.
Now anyone and everyone that wants to agree and disagree can have the floor since my views have been true and nothing but true as a proponent of circumcision.
Good luck everyone in finding circumcision for yourself or family members. It's truly a gift for our family.
Chancy

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by chancy (here)
Hello Everyone: I have just read the most bizarre and made up balony that I have ever read on Project Avalon! This is utter bs Carmody! There is NO WAY you can substantiate this and are making it up. At least my posts were the truth about circumcision BUT this is utter BS and you have to know it. IF you don't then shame on you.

When someone comes on with a light touch of disbelief in what another person said, I suspect a failure to communicate with the other person.

When someone comes on with a strongly outraged sense of disbelief, I suspect a failure to communicate with one's self.

(Paul the bovine amateur shrink here; not Paul the admin . And no, I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn last night.)

[Omni]

Posted by chancy (here)
The truth is that as far as my family is concerned there is NO psychological effects of circumcision.
End of story.

I respect your opinion. But you have accused people of speculating, yet do so yourself right there. How do you know every last detail about your programming in saying that? I don't think you could, especially not programmign from your childhood that you were not self aware of.

How could you know what effect it had on your energy field? Not saying it has one for sure that is noticeable.... But how could you know when you only experience one side of the coin? You haven't known anything other than circumcision. So how could you know the difference? Obviously it doesn't make people into bad people automatically or anything.

I can speak from experience having been circumcised myself and also from asking my kids how they feel and if there were any psychological effects of circumcision.

I have to recognize the chance of you having a bias, because most people don't want to recognize themselves being in any sort of flawed scenario in thought or body(unless it's in their face irrefutable).

Of course circumcised people will think it had no effect in many circumstances. Not many people are willing to see flaws in themselves much(not applying that trait to you).

And often people's programming is a mystery to them. It's not self evident so much a lot of the time. So asking a child if it had any psychological effect on them isn't sound in determining if it did. The psychological effects would be before they could detect it, and if they exist would be very hard to detect if they did exist. They aren't listed in text in some /diagnostic mind tap. lol

I'm not saying it DOES have a psychological effect long term. I'm not saying a bias surely clouds your judgment because most would not be open to some flaw in them, before they deny it strongly. And I'm not saying you are wrong.

I just see you doing what you accuse others of, and see possibilities that could lead your conclusion to falsity.

You wont find any flaming from me for thinking circumcision had no bad effects. However you may find a debate.

I'm not convinced on either side. I however can debate either side if I see someone bring potential flaws to the discussion though.

Peace

[NancyV]

My decision to not have my son circumcised when he was born in 1980 came from doing lots of reading for several months on the subject. I didn't have a computer in 1980 so it took more work to research. Before I did this research I saw nothing wrong with circumcision and never really thought about it much one way or the other. In other words I was ignorant on the subject. I accepted that it was the normal thing to do. It took me a while to understand and accept that it could be harmful for a baby but I persisted in reading as much as I could find both for and against circumcision before my son was born.

The logical conclusion I had to reach after all my reading (unless I wanted to remain in denial) was that it was most likely detrimental to a child to subject it to so much pain at birth or when very young. It also didn't seem logical to me that human males would be born with a foreskin if there was no purpose for it. Could it be a mistake? Perhaps being born with EARS is also a mistake. They sort of just stick out there and I can't see much purpose for them! (oops, was that sarcastic?) LOL..

Anyway, my 31 year old son has never had a problem with cleanliness or with being taunted by other males who were circumcised, even when he was in the US Army. When his son was born 4 years ago he was also NOT circumcised. It seems that most people circumcise their sons because of tradition, religion or out of ignorance of ALL the facts, thinking they are doing the right thing. I don't really care if others circumcise their sons even though I think it's a rather barbaric tradition/practice and potentially harmful... physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

[chancy]

Posted by Omniverse (here)

Posted by chancy (here)
The truth is that as far as my family is concerned there is NO psychological effects of circumcision.
End of story.

I respect your opinion. But you have accused people of speculating, yet do so yourself right there. How do you know every last detail about your programming in saying that? I don't think you could, especially not programmign from your childhood that you were not self aware of.

Good Day Avalonians: I must give a rebuttal since it's the right thing to do! I also respect everyone elses opinion however I am not giving an opinion. I lived through it. Have studied it. Asked lots of questions about it. Discussed it with people who have and haven't been circumsised and unanimously everyone agreed that it does not cause any psychological effects. I would say that is much more than an opinion or speculating. Of course everyone is welcomed to their own opinion whether it agrees with me or not since that's what makes life exciting!
I am very aware of myself and programming. How would anyone but me know what my programming is but me?


How could you know what effect it had on your energy field? Not saying it has one for sure that is noticeable.... But how could you know when you only experience one side of the coin? You haven't known anything other than circumcision. So how could you know the difference? Obviously it doesn't make people into bad people automatically or anything.

I know because I ask people who have not been circumsised. I know because I trust their words. I believe them just like they believe me when I tell them that I and my kids have had NO psychological effects from circumcision. From what I have read on this thread it does make you a bad person according to the nay sayers. If you kindly read from the beginning of this thread I am pretty much alone except for a couple others that agree with circumcision

I can speak from experience having been circumcised myself and also from asking my kids how they feel and if there were any psychological effects of circumcision.

I have to recognize the chance of you having a bias, because most people don't want to recognize themselves being in any sort of flawed scenario in thought or body(unless it's in their face irrefutable).

Of course I am biased when I know the truth! I am living as a circumcised adult and don't have any problems with that. I also don't have any problems with people that don't agree with it and don't practice circumcision for whatever reason. That is their choice....
IF I was flawed I would certainly know it because I know my flaws and like some of these flaws and try to change other flaws. I hope everyone tries to be a better person.
I also know that getting circumcised is not going to change that person or anything about that person. This is from experience of course.
You see if I have to believe anyone it will be someone that has experienced that particular procedure. I certainly am not going ot believe the naysayers because they are usually naysaying about most things. From my life experiences the naysayers love to disagree. My life is extremely positive and this is why I am more than happy to talk about a subject that most are extremely scared to death of for some reason?!


Of course circumcised people will think it had no effect in many circumstances. Not many people are willing to see flaws in themselves much(not applying that trait to you).

As I mentioned in the above paragraph I have lots of flaws. That's what makes us human. I also know when something is not a flaw and circumcision is definitely not a flaw since it's only skin. I have had more skin ripped off my hand while working than they clipped for the circumcision. Does that mean my hand is flawed? I certainly don't think so. BUT alot of the comments on this thread would suggest that it is now that the skin has been ripped off.
You can certainly apply that trait to me since I am as human as the rest of the people here. I also believe in circumcision. That seems to be where we part company for whatever reason I don't know BUT it makes alot of people terrified.



I'm not saying it DOES have a psychological effect long term. I'm not saying a bias surely clouds your judgment because most would not be open to some flaw in them, before they deny it strongly. And I'm not saying you are wrong.

I am saying it DOES NOT have any effect on the psychology of that person. That's why I am saying it truthfully because I am circumcised.
If it was a flaw then it would have showed up in my life already. It hasn't and I am pretty sure it won't since I am very happy with my life. Just like everyone I have made mistakes but happiness comes with knowing you can see your flaws and change them. I would not change being circumcised.



I just see you doing what you accuse others of, and see possibilities that could lead your conclusion to falsity.

For me being circumcised did not lead me to a false conclusion and I am not like the others since I am one of the few who admits I am happy I got circumcised. Telling the truth is not an opinion. An opinion is simply what one thinks whether by guessing or by following someone elses ideas. I am using my own experience and no one elses.


You wont find any flaming from me for thinking circumcision had no bad effects. However you may find a debate.

I certainly welcome the debate because whether circumcision is right or wrong who am I to judge anyone else for having it done or not having it done. I am only using myself as the ginny pig.


I'm not convinced on either side. I however can debate either side if I see someone bring potential flaws to the discussion though.
Peace

The only one that can convince you is yourself. All I am trying to do is give one positive case for being circumcised. Actually a few more with my kids! But I will be the subject and leave my kids out of it since they are also very happy with their parents decision. It's not for everyone and everyone has to make their own decisions for their circumstance(s).
Thanks for the well thought out post. It's appreciated.
Good luck in finding the truth............
Chancy

[soulsinger]

Though I come from a Jewish family, I never had strong opinions about circumcision, one way or the other. However, when I was pregnant with my son, I learned that my husband had VERY strong feelings that circumcision is wrong. He believes that every individual has the right to choose whether they will modify their body-- and that parents do not have the right to choose that for their children. So I deferred to his judgment.

Several years later, I was present for the circumcisions of three other baby boys. One, who received locally injected anesthesia, was surprisingly calm and easy. The other two, who received absolutely NO anesthesia, were frantically screaming... it was the most horrific thing I'd ever seen or heard. So I can certainly say that, if parents DO choose circ for their sons, they need to INSIST on proper anesthesia. There is NO excuse for causing a baby to suffer so.

As my son has grown, I have become more and more sure that our decision to leave him intact was the right one for him and for us. I don't really know all the answers about what is 'right' or 'wrong' concerning circumcision... but there are two aspects I consider problematic: the inability of a man to make a free-will choice about his own body (if his parents have him circ'ed at birth), and the infliction of unbearable pain on a non-anesthetized infant (as most circs in the U.S. are).

I have respect for the traditions of Jewish culture. I understand that this decision carries a heavy weight, because, by the consideration of most of the Jewish community, if you're a male and uncircumcised, you're not a Jew. Now, some Jewish parents are choosing to reject this tradition. For me, it was easier because I am not religious and my husband is not Jewish. We never intended to raise our son in the Jewish faith, and we have never been concerned whether our son would marry a Jewish woman.

As far as this whole idea that circumcision is a plot by the ruling elite to disconnect men from their masculinity, spirituality, and will.... well, I guess I'd need to see specific proof to believe that. Something like, private letters among royals or other powerful elites, discussing their efforts to promote circumcision and enslave the men. Or secret documents with the 'hidden' purpose of circumcision spelled out.

[toothpick]

Hi everyone, great thread Omniverse.
This is a volitile subject, obviously, from the posts.
Snowbird mentoned that forskins are used to manufacture Interferon, i did not know that.
In 2000 i was put through a 48week drug trial of, Interferon, for liver cancer.
Had to give myself injections in the stomach area everyday, and alot of pills to go with it.
Long story, short, I,m still kickng.

Circumcision around my famiily, was, always a decision made medically.
I had two uncles from opposite sides of the family.
They both suffered from terrible infectons and my favorite uncle had to go a couple of times a year and have his penis razored open so he could urinate, apologies for being so graphic.
Could you imagine getting cut regularly, and the older he got the worse it would get.
Our thinkng was, get it done once.
I,m just saying, there is always two or three sides to every story, everyone,s situation is different.
Also, i am 100% behind the thought the no baby anywhere should ever feel pain or stress of anykind for any reason period.

toothpick

[Carmody]

The Cathars were right.

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/genius.php

[MiguelQ]

Well I wouldn't like to have a skin enclosing my penis... Thanks God I born with it free. Some guys don't need to do it.what name is called for those that aren't circumcised but don't have the skin almost closing the *head*

[Carmody]

Posted by soulsinger (here)
Though I come from a Jewish family, I never had strong opinions about circumcision, one way or the other. However, when I was pregnant with my son, I learned that my husband had VERY strong feelings that circumcision is wrong. He believes that every individual has the right to choose whether they will modify their body-- and that parents do not have the right to choose that for their children. So I deferred to his judgment.

Several years later, I was present for the circumcisions of three other baby boys. One, who received locally injected anesthesia, was surprisingly calm and easy. The other two, who received absolutely NO anesthesia, were frantically screaming... it was the most horrific thing I'd ever seen or heard. So I can certainly say that, if parents DO choose circ for their sons, they need to INSIST on proper anesthesia. There is NO excuse for causing a baby to suffer so.

As my son has grown, I have become more and more sure that our decision to leave him intact was the right one for him and for us. I don't really know all the answers about what is 'right' or 'wrong' concerning circumcision... but there are two aspects I consider problematic: the inability of a man to make a free-will choice about his own body (if his parents have him circ'ed at birth), and the infliction of unbearable pain on a non-anesthetized infant (as most circs in the U.S. are).

I have respect for the traditions of Jewish culture. I understand that this decision carries a heavy weight, because, by the consideration of most of the Jewish community, if you're a male and uncircumcised, you're not a Jew. Now, some Jewish parents are choosing to reject this tradition. For me, it was easier because I am not religious and my husband is not Jewish. We never intended to raise our son in the Jewish faith, and we have never been concerned whether our son would marry a Jewish woman.

As far as this whole idea that circumcision is a plot by the ruling elite to disconnect men from their masculinity, spirituality, and will.... well, I guess I'd need to see specific proof to believe that. Something like, private letters among royals or other powerful elites, discussing their efforts to promote circumcision and enslave the men. Or secret documents with the 'hidden' purpose of circumcision spelled out.

ok, do we need evidence there? How about in other places, not in other situations? (just asking, as a counterpoint, not accusing.) I thank you for showing how modern techniques have removed most of the created mental and thus permanent wiring damage and emotional shift.

2000 years of damage. Which is still going on in the majority of circumcision cases.

I'm thinking that, potentially... some have not looked too closely at the evidence. Or considered what type of mental damage is done to a male child when operated on without anesthetic in one of if not THE most base defining point of their character? How it will be damaged (not potentially, this aspect has already been covered, the damage IS done to the male child). How the emotional and thus the base wiring of the child is damaged?

Now, people are smart, some are brutal -and cunning. Vicious, even.

Read Leviticus. That was the bargain stuck, under extreme duress and force. The mark of a sociopath. A brutish one.

Thus my statement, that from what I can read and understand.....the Cathars where right.

Which is why they where forcefully eliminated (mass murder), very powerfully so...to virtually the last person.

I bring the subject up because it must be covered, it must be aired.

The connection between damage to the growing mind of the child, the freezing and shift of the emotional and mental growth, the block of the mind, all that MUST be aired.

By it's very nature of being a concept and thought, a person who was circumcised as a child, with no anesthetic... will be very uncomfortable with the idea that their circumcision was a direct attack against their developing psyche, as a newborn.

By it's very nature, as a subject, the parent who allowed and carried forth such an act would be doubly uncomfortable with such a thought.

By it's very nature, someone who is ensconced in such a religious structure would also be highly uncomfortable with such a subject.

We are talking about psychological pruning. An emotional block, religion creating a form of lobotomizing for the purpose of robotizing. That's what I'm saying.

Other religions are controlled, but this one, this aspect is scared, harmless and off limits? I don't think so.


If you want the literature for it, well, ....get me the literature for 9/11....hhhmm...or for the current attack on Libya.. The evidence trails are of similar type and nature.

Then we get into the problem of not being capable of realizing this..... as the wiring for that in the mind, as a differential....simply isn't there. The mind bounces off of it, especially for those directly involved.

Besides the deep desire within to never go there, regarding the psychology of ridding the self of awful events.

This is psychology 101, regarding trauma. How it drives the individual, unseen.

So the subject will never be polite, but it must be raised and it must be phrased in the shape of what it is, what it results in ----for the child, which becomes the adult, with the hidden component...... a good part of what is driving them.

Driving their baseline psychology--which is emotional in nature, which steers their thought formation-and expression of physicality -into the world. As the research on the mind development and psychology has shown to be true. No matter how ugly it feels.

And from what we know about religions and the hidden hand, specifically that of the religion of Judea, regarding YAHWEH......... it comes to this.

The subject must be raised, it must be aired and it must be phrased this way. The evidence and the results presuppose guilt, not innocence, in this act and custom -and it's history and context. Thus the phrasing and direction.

[Flash]

I understand that Jewish boys are circumcised very early after birth and that the traumatism goes straight in the unconscious. What I do not understand is why do Moslems do get cicumscised between the age of 8 and 12 years old? In fact, at the same age about as the Ber Mitzvah in the Jewish religion.

At 8 or 12, the pain inflicted is very conscious and is related to male hood in the boys' mind and from the society around him, becoming a men. And there is a whole party around it at that age. What is the difference in impact then? There is certainly still some kind of disconnect when such pain is inflicted (although nowaday it is all done under analgesics). Could it be similar to cultures where you razor cut your arms or face to be part of the male group for example. However, because it is related to sexual organ, which in turn is related to one of the most powerfull energy center before entering the spiritual realm, what makes it different then, as an impact? And why 12 years of age versus 12 days of age?