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Thread: Tirelessly updating Avalon on the El Hierro eruption.

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    France Honored, Retired Member. Hervé passed on 13 November 2024.
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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Quote Self-protection measures in case of earthquake

    If you are inside a building is important
    This reminded me of something I read a while ago, so, here it is (with the the pros and cons):

    Quote 'Triangle of Life' Earthquake Survival Method
    Netlore Archive: Doug Copp's emailed advice on earthquake survival tactics entitled 'Triangle of Life' is disputed by search-and-rescue experts from the American Red Cross and elsewhere.
    Description: Email flyer
    Circulating since: Aug. 2004 (this version)
    Status: Disputed by experts
    Example:
    Email text contributed by Marc G., Aug. 25, 2004:

    EXTRACT FROM DOUG COPP'S ARTICLE ON THE "TRIANGLE OF LIFE", Edited by Larry Linn for MAA Safety Committee brief on 4/13/04.

    My name is Doug Copp. I am the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of the American Rescue Team International (ARTI), the world's most experienced rescue team. The information in this article will save lives in an earthquake.

    I have crawled inside 875 collapsed buildings, worked with rescue teams from 60 countries, founded rescue teams in several countries, and I am a member of many rescue teams from many countries. I was the United Nations expert in Disaster Mitigation (UNX051 -UNIENET) for two years. I have worked at every major disaster in the world since 1985, except for simultaneous disasters.

    In 1996 we made a film which proved my survival methodology to be correct. The Turkish Federal Government, City of Istanbul, University of Istanbul, Case Productions and ARTI cooperated to film this practical, scientific test. We collapsed a school and a home with 20 mannequins inside. Ten mannequins did "duck and cover," and ten mannequins I used in my "triangle of life" survival method. After the simulated earthquake collapse we crawled through the rubble and entered the building to film and document the results. The film, in which I practiced my survival techniques under directly observable, scientific conditions, relevant to building collapse, showed there would have been zero percent survival for those doing duck and cover. There would likely have been 100 percent survivability for people using my method of the "triangle of life." This film has been seen by millions of viewers on television in Turkey and the rest of Europe, and it was seen in the USA, Canada and Latin America on the TV program Real TV.

    The first building I ever crawled inside of was a school in Mexico City during the 1985 earthquake. Every child was under their desk. Every child was crushed to the thickness of their bones. They could have survived by lying down next to their desks in the aisles. It was obscene, unnecessary and I wondered why the children were not in the aisles. I didn't at the time know that the children were told to hide under something.

    Simply stated, when buildings collapse, the weight of the ceilings falling upon the objects or furniture inside crushes these objects, leaving a space or void next to them. This space is what I call the "triangle of life". The larger the object, the stronger, the less it will compact. The less the object compacts, the larger the void, the greater the probability that the person who is using this void for safety will not be injured. The next time you watch collapsed buildings, on television, count the "triangles" you see formed. They are everywhere. It is the most common shape, you will see, in a collapsed building. They are everywhere. I trained the Fire Department of Trujillo (population 750,000) in how to survive, take care of their families, and to rescue others in earthquakes.
    The chief of rescue in the Trujillo Fire Department is a professor at Trujillo University. He accompanied me everywhere. He gave personal testimony: "My name is Roberto Rosales. I am Chief of Rescue in Trujillo. When I was 11 years old, I was trapped inside of a collapsed building. My entrapment occurred during the earthquake of 1972 that killed 70,000 people. I survived in the "triangle of life" that existed next to my brother's motorcycle. My friends who got under the bed and under desks were crushed to death [he gives more details, names, addresses etc.]...I am the living example of the "triangle of life". My dead friends are the example of "duck and cover".
    TIPS DOUG COPP PROVIDES:
    1) Everyone who simply "ducks and covers" WHEN BUILDINGS COLLAPSE is crushed to death -- Every time, without exception. People who get under objects, like desks or cars, are always crushed.

    2) Cats, dogs and babies all naturally often curl up in the fetal position. You should too in an earthquake. It is a natural safety/survival instinct. You can survive in a smaller void. Get next to an object, next to a sofa, next to a large bulky object that will compress slightly but leave a void next to it.

    3) Wooden buildings are the safest type of construction to be in during an earthquake. The reason is simple: the wood is flexible and moves with the force of the earthquake. If the wooden building does collapse, large survival voids are created. Also, the wooden building has less concentrated, crushing weight. Brick buildings will break into individual bricks. Bricks will cause many injuries but less squashed bodies than concrete slabs.

    4) If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply roll off the bed. A safe void will exist around the bed. Hotels can achieve a much greater survival rate in earthquakes, simply by posting a sign on the back of the door of every room, telling occupants to lie down on the floor, next to the bottom of the bed during an earthquake.

    5) If an earthquake happens while you are watching television and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair.

    6) Everybody who gets under a doorway when buildings collapse is killed. How? If you stand under a doorway and the doorjamb falls forward or backward you will be crushed by the ceiling above. If the door jam falls sideways you will be cut in half by the doorway. In either case, you will be killed!

    7) Never go to the stairs. The stairs have a different "moment of frequency" (they swing separately from the main part of the building). The stairs and remainder of the building continuously bump into each other until structural failure of the stairs takes place. The people who get on stairs before they fail are chopped up by the stair treads. They are horribly mutilated. Even if the building doesn't collapse, stay away from the stairs. The stairs are a likely part of the building to be damaged. Even if the stairs are not collapsed by the earthquake, they may collapse later when overloaded by screaming, fleeing people. They should always be checked for safety, even when the rest of the building is not damaged.

    8) Get Near the Outer Walls Of Buildings Or Outside Of Them If Possible - It is much better to be near the outside of the building rather than the interior. The farther inside you are from the outside perimeter of the building the greater the probability that your escape route will be blocked;

    9) People inside of their vehicles are crushed when the road above falls in an earthquake and crushes their vehicles; which is exactly what happened with the slabs between the decks of the Nimitz Freeway. The victims of the San Francisco earthquake all stayed inside of their vehicles. They were all killed. They could have easily survived by getting out and sitting or lying next to their vehicles, says the author. Everyone killed would have survived if they had been able to get out of their cars and sit or lie next to them. All the crushed cars had voids 3 feet high next to them, except for the cars that had columns fall directly across them.

    10) I discovered, while crawling inside of collapsed newspaper offices and other offices with a lot of paper, that paper does not compact. Large voids are found surrounding stacks of paper.


    Analysis: The American Red Cross took the unusual step of contacting me directly to refute the above text, which a representative of the group politely characterized as "incorrect."

    According to Red Cross community disaster education manager Rocky Lopes, author Doug Copp's earthquake survival suggestions don't apply in the United States because they're based on observations made in Turkey, where engineering and construction standards are different. "Much research in the United States has confirmed that 'Drop, Cover, and Hold On!' has saved lives in the United States," writes Lopes. "Engineering researchers have demonstrated that very few buildings collapse or 'pancake' in the U.S. as they might do in other countries."
    Other experts concur, even to the point of suggesting that some of Copp's advice could endanger people's lives rather than save them. "Some of the things he recommends are absolutely dangerous, like getting out of your car and lying down next to the car," UCLA public health expert Kimberley Shoaf told Knight Ridder Newspapers in November 2004. A former deputy director of the California Office of Emergency Services, Mark Ghilarducci, agreed that "duck, cover and hold on" remains the best overall strategy for survival during an earthquake.

    I should also point out that although Mr. Copp has proclaimed himself a disaster expert, his credentials are in question.
    From: http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...le_of_life.htm

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    http://www.antena3.com/noticias/soci...092700207.html

    contains video footage of start of evac last night

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    You are a Shining Star Amzer Zo

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog


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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Haven't seen the website before... but I was searching for an update on the earthquake potential in the Canaries in general and came across it. The video I mentioned looks pretty scientific and credible... although it was talking about a different island to El Hierro.... note to self... do your homework before posting!!!
    "When People Come Together With The Intention Of GIVING Maximum - Each RECEIVES Maximum"

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    France Honored, Retired Member. Hervé passed on 13 November 2024.
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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    What I find somewhat reassuring since following this evolution at El Hierro is that it is very progressive and constant. Although the trend is now subvertical, it grows at an even pace which, to me, indicates that if there is an eruption at all, it should be a lot closer to a Hawaiian type than anything else. That is, no huge explosions but a great number of small ones.

    In the hope I am not wrong, I wish you all a smiling sunshiny day!

    Off I am:

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    El Hierro is a 'Shield Volcano'...long slow pouring...
    Waiting to see...
    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    What I find somewhat reassuring since following this evolution at El Hierro is that it is very progressive and constant. Although the trend is now subvertical, it grows at an even pace which, to me, indicates that if there is an eruption at all, it should be a lot closer to a Hawaiian type than anything else. That is, no huge explosions but a great number of small ones.

    In the hope I am not wrong, I wish you all a smiling sunshiny day!

    Off I am:

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    ♫♫ Polly put the kettle on, Polly put the kettle on....Polly put the kettle on, We'll all have Tea ♫♫



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    http://www.ign.es/ign/resources/volc...ia/HIERRO.html

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    http://www.diarioelhierro.com/


    "LAST MINUTE .- The Cabildo de El Hierro convenes at 12:00 am a press conference in Valverde to report the situation on the island and the measures to adoptar.DAREMOS LARGE IRON JOURNAL INFORMATION"

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Good morning randles-I'm still here pulling for you !! If you want a quick reason to smile just google pictures of a crested duck, I've been raising them. and hatching eggs for about 10 years now. GOD bless us all !!

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    United States Avalon Member White Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Quote Posted by Phoenix10 (here)
    Hi Randles,

    xxx//bit .ly/nRc xxx jlE"]htt p://bit.ly/n xxxx Rc jlE[/URL] (hope the link works!!)
    Please be aware of from where you get information... that site is um... well.... (and that is why i messed up the link in my reply) I live in CT which is a stones throw from NY and I think if there was the threat the blog poster claims there is I for one would be posting from higher ground.

    Follow the information that randles is putting out there and verify it for yourself. There are ways to translate the pages from spanish if you cannot read spanish (like me lol).

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    lets hope that polly is only peddling snake oil, gets frustrated and goes back to sleep!!! and me thinks me shall have some coffee now then pop back ina bit to see how you are doing over there randles...
    ~a pebble in the water makes a ripple effect,
    every action in this world will bear a consequence...
    if you wade around forever you will surely drown.... ~ RJA

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Thanks for that White Rabbit..

    I agree with you all the way about gaining information from other sites.

    I am sorry that not all the sites that I give my information from are NOT in English, and when the information is pouring in, there is only so much that I can run through the translator BEFORE i post it..
    I have stuck to the same sources, others came online later.. since July 2011

    www.ign.es
    http://www.ign.es/ign/resources/volc...ia/HIERRO.html

    most recently

    www.emergenciaselhierro.ord
    www.diarioelhierro.com

    Thank you !!
    Quote Posted by White Rabbit (here)
    Quote Posted by Phoenix10 (here)
    Hi Randles,

    xxx//bit .ly/nRc xxx jlE"]htt p://bit.ly/n xxxx Rc jlE[/URL] (hope the link works!!)
    Please be aware of from where you get information... that site is um... well.... (and that is why i messed up the link in my reply) I live in CT which is a stones throw from NY and I think if there was the threat the blog poster claims there is I for one would be posting from higher ground.

    Follow the information that randles is putting out there and verify it for yourself. There are ways to translate the pages from spanish if you cannot read spanish (like me lol).

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    lets hope that polly is only peddling snake oil, gets frustrated and goes back to sleep!!! and me thinks me shall have some coffee now then pop back ina bit to see how you are doing over there randles...

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    xxxxx xxxxx
    Last edited by sleepy; 6th October 2013 at 12:53.

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    If you need any help in translating information from Spanish to English dont think it twice and pm me or something and i will try to do my best to translate it for you.

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Polly at lunch time here ..



    Registered daily count of 81...Running registered total 8545


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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    emergenciaselhierro.org ...site is still down

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    http://www.diarioelhierro.com/

    "The Delegation of the Government calls''quiet and offer full cooperation''to El Hierro
    Fernandez pointed Dominica on Wednesday that the central government through the Government Office has made ​​available to the Executive all means canary emergency."


    "SOCIETY - 28/9/2011
    THE POSSIBILITIES OF THIS PHENOMENON ARE FEW GO AHEAD

    The risk of eruption remains low''''
    Government of Canarias and Cabildo de El Hierro convey a message of reassurance to the public and insist that the situation has not changed since Friday, keeping the yellow light.
    Decrease letter letraAumenta




    SERGIO GUTIERREZ, DiarioElHierro.es, Valverde (28/09/2011)

    The Director of Security and Emergency of the Canary Islands, Juan Manuel Santana, the president of the Cabildo de El Hierro, Alpide Arms and the Minister of Security and Emergency Institution El Hierro, Maria del Carmen Morales Valverde insisted on Wednesday that " the situation in El Hierro island "is the same as last Friday, when they decided to change to yellow light volcanic risk."

    "We want to convey a message of reassurance to the population of El Hierro because the situation has not changed, said Juan Manuel Santana, for whom the attitude of the islanders citizens" has been exemplary, "he said.

    Santana said that with respect to the current situation, "has decided to continue on Wednesday with the closing of tunnels Roquille, evacuees still remain outside their homes and schools remain closed the border to what is decided in A second meeting to be held at 19:30 on Wednesday, 28.

    In addition, the Director General of Security and Emergency said the lights will stay the same (yellow), "no change, because there are no conditions to raise it," reassured.

    However, Juan Manuel Santana said that this Wednesday is scheduled to arrive in the island an outpost of Communications, SUC nurses, basic life support ambulances, mobile units for emergency and effective Red Cross and the Military Emergency (UME) and transportation equipment. In this sense, the general manager said that this whole deployment is carried out "because the civil protection authorities are required to have anticipated any contingency," he added.

    "Right now the chances of this phenomenon are few go ahead, 'said Santana, that's what scientists tell us. In any case, he added, the authorities have an obligation to have everything planned, and that's it, "had an impact.

    THE EARTHQUAKES ARE PRODUCING IN THE SEA

    Also, the director of Security and Emergency of the Canary Islands, Juan Manuel Santana, recalled that in past earthquakes occurring in the sea, "but in any case, he added, occurring on land in the area of ​​El Julan, we know that is an uninhabited area and shall not affect the population, so-nuanced-the risk would be minimal, "he said.

    INCREASED ACTIVITY

    Juan Manuel Santana, however, did acknowledge that, according to scientists, "there could be an increase in seismic activity, and we're in this activity as we had predicted, so-said-we are in that situation normal within the pre-emergency phase in which we are, it has not changed, "he insisted.

    A RED TRAFFIC LIGHT CHANGE


    Juan Manuel Santana said during the press conference that for the light to change to red, "would not be due to increase in intensity, but the frequency and depth (closer to the surface), higher values ​​of emission of gases; In short, summed up the general manager, and when scientists would have conclusive data to say with confidence that you can approach an eruptive phenomenon, which right now does not, "he said."

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    very strange...
    just looked up RSOE EDIS....

    and today,,right now...they are showing this..

    http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/site/?p...0824-32077-SPI

    It is an earthquake which happened in La Palma WEDNESDAY 24 AUGUST....

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    Dutch MSM is now covering this news: http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/1...__.html?p=11,1

    But how accurate is it ?
    The chance on the volcano erupting is said to be only 15% ...

    Translated by Google:

    Quote Volcano to erupt on Canary Island

    FERRO - The Canary Island of Ferro (also known as El Hierro) prepares for a possible volcanic eruption.

    More than 150 earthquakes have been observed on Tuesday from the smallest Canary Island. According Canarias7.es stopped the earth Ferro Wednesday not even tremble.
    Last weekend there were 48 earthquakes on the island, with a force of about 3.4 on the Richter scale.
    Nearly 50 residents of La Frontera are advised to leave their homes because of the tremors. There were plans for more of the 10,000 inhabitants of the island to evacuate.
    The alderman for Safety, Maria del Carmen Padron, calling for calm. According to the alderman is more activity expected in the coming days. It is estimated that the active magma about 15 kilometers below the Earth's surface. Currently, the risk of a possible eruption is estimated at 15 percent. If the volcano to erupt, there will be enough time to evacuate the population.

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    Default Re: After tirelessly updating Avalon for weeks...it's official, evacuation is in prog

    I just found this article on Wired...I know, maybe not the best source, but it looks valid:

    http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...-at-el-hierro/

    Strong prayers and vibes, folks!
    "Vision without action is merely a dream.
    Action without vision just passes the time.
    Vision with action can change the world." Joel Arthur Barker

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