Planet X/Nibiru/Tyche/Hercolobus/Elenin

[Ishtar]

Thanks, Rahkyt

That's helpful.

But I need more help with this bit:

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
, but, suffice it to say now, that I do not preclude the possibility that:

1) the Anunnaki, in physical form, did indeed genetically manipulate hominids that they found here.

2) there were previous incursions and genetic manipulations by other beings (potentially Avian, Canine, etc.) prior to the Anunnaki arrival upon Earth.

3) the alien stock remains different from the human stock, as all groups that were created and remained here upon the earth were, primarily, of earth stock [the hominid(s) that were here previous to Anunnaki (or other) arrival]

4) there were later genetic manipulations by other beings (potentially Maldekian/Zeta/Grey, Orion/Reptilian, etc.) and advanced human civilizations.

5) our current constellation of ethnic types is a result of this genetic manipulation and also of a wide mixing between ourselves that have resulted in what we call 'racial groups'.

6) certain groups have continued to be utilized by off-world or in-world interests that continue to seek to guide the evolution of humanity and control the genome in order to retain control of earth and its resources, including us.

I have heard it before, that we were genetically engineered by the Sumerians/Anunnaki, but I've never known how this is known?

What source are you using for this information?

[Mark]

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I have heard it before, that we were genetically engineered by the Sumerians/Anunnaki, but I've never known how this is known?

What source are you using for this information?

Which part? There are diverse sources for all of it. Too many to name shortly accumulated over too many years to remember all of the article and book titles, references and accolades. Are we required to list traditional academic sources? Alternative? Anthropology? Biology? Cosmology? What are you looking for in order to ascertain validity?

[Ishtar]

Posted by Ria (here)
Dear Ishtar, I don't know about anyone els, and others contributing to this thread, but I could keep you up all night with questions.
I would like you to tell me all the info on the
Caucasians?................ maybe another thread?
Ishtar, is it possible to clarify if the wars with the serpents / nagars that took place in India were around the same time, or just before the the solar priesthood came on to the sean in Suma.
I do not know if there is a connection, this comes from a couple of sources that there are solar beings, that live in the sun. I know this sounds far fetched?........ There have been seen craft, seeming to go into the Sun.

Goodness, questions questions questions .... LOL!

It's difficult for me to address them, Ria, because we have one big difference between us ... I don't read these scriptures as literal history. I read them as mythology.

I don't think that there was really a Noah, for example, who had an Ark in which the animals went in two by two (in reference to your previous post). I believe that it was an allegory for the Zodiac which means, in Greek anyway, 'circle of animals' which, at the end of each precession of equinoxes 'go under' in a great Flood, and then the world (new Zodiacal sign) arises to begin the new world.

I agree with Giorgio de Santillana, professor of the history of science at MIT, and Hertha von Dechend of Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität, who in their seminal book, Hamlet's Mill, explained how ancients myths were originally astronomical teaching stories about the precessional journey around the ecliptic and the change in the pole star. And when each pole star gave way to another new pole star, it is described as the end of an Age, which is signified by a flood in the heavens.



This is also further described in The Secret of the Incas by Dr William Sullivan who traces this way of interpreting myths right back through the Aztecs, the Incas and the Mayans.

I’ve listed here all the Great Flood myths from around the world that I’ve been able to amass, over the years. By comparing them to the Noah’s Ark story (which I haven’t listed, because we know it so well), there are so many similarities in their core structures that it’s obviously myth, with just the names of characters and a few other things changed to suit the local storytellers.

In these myths, the flood takes place in the Heavens, not on the Earth ~ although our ancestors would have also experienced great flooding on the Earth after the last Ice Age, which is possibly why they used it as a metaphor in their Mystery teachings for the end of an Age.

It’s impossible to tell which is the oldest flood myth of the 30 or so listed below – but officially, it’s the one about Atrahasis which is dated to the 18th century BCE. However, it is my educated guess that the Egyptian and Indian ones are equally old, if not older.

(This is from an article on my blog)

SUMERIA AND BABYLONIA
Atrahasis
Three times (every 1200 years), the gods were distressed by the disturbance from human overpopulation. The gods dealt with the problem first by plague, then by famine. Both times, the god Enki advised men to bribe the god causing the problem. The third time, Enlil advised the gods to destroy all humans with a flood, but Enki had Atrahasis build an ark and so escape. Also on the boat were cattle, wild animals and birds, and Atrahasis’ family. When the storm came, Atrahasis sealed the door with bitumen and cut the boat’s rope. The storm god Adad raged, turning the day black. After the seven-day flood, the gods regretted their action. Atrahasis made an offering to them, at which the gods gathered like flies, and Enki established barren women and stillbirth to avoid the problem in the future.

Zisudra
The gods had decided to destroy mankind. The god Enlil warned the priest-king Ziusudra (“Long of Life”) of the coming flood by speaking to a wall while Ziusudra listened at the side. He was instructed to build a great ship and carry beasts and birds upon it. Violent winds came, and a flood of rain covered the earth for seven days and nights. Then Ziusudra opened a window in the large boat, allowing sunlight to enter, and he prostrated himself before the sun-god Utu. After landing, he sacrificed a sheep and an ox and bowed before Anu and Enlil. For protecting the animals and the seed of mankind, he was granted eternal life and taken to the country of Dilmun, where the sun rises.

Utnapishtim
The gods, led by Enlil, agreed to cleanse the earth of an overpopulated humanity, but Utnapishtim was warned by the god Ea in a dream. He and some craftsmen built a large boat (one acre in area, seven decks) in a week. He then loaded it with his family, the craftsmen, and “the seed of all living creatures.” The waters of the abyss rose up, and it stormed for six days. Even the gods were frightened by the flood’s fury. Upon seeing all the people killed, the gods repented and wept. The waters covered everything but the top of the mountain Nisur, where the boat landed. Seven days later, Utnapishtim released a dove, but it returned finding nowhere else to land. He next returned a sparrow, which also returned, and then a raven, which did not return. Thus he knew the waters had receded enough for the people to emerge. Utnapishtim made a sacrifice to the gods. He and his wife were given immortality and lived at the end of the earth.

Xisuthrus
The god Chronos in a vision warned Xisuthrus, the tenth king of Babylon, of a flood coming on the fifteenth day of the month of Daesius. The god ordered him to write a history and bury it in Sippara, and told him to build and provision a vessel (5 stadia by 2 stadia) for himself, his friends and relations, and all kinds of animals. Xisuthrus asked where he should sail, and Chronos answered, “to the gods, but first pray for all good things to men.” Xisuthrus built a ship five furlongs by two furlongs and loaded it as ordered. After the flood had come and abated somewhat, he sent out some birds, which returned. Later, he tried again, and the birds returned with mud on their feet. On the third trial, the birds didn’t return. He saw that land had appeared above the waters, so he parted some seams of his ship, saw the shore, and drove his ship aground in the Corcyraean mountains in Armenia. He disembarked with his wife, daughter, and pilot, and offered sacrifices to the gods. Those four were translated to live with the gods. The others at first were grieved when they could not find the four, but they heard Xisuthrus’ voice in the air telling them to be pious and to seek his writings at Sippara. Part of the ship remains to this day, and some people make charms from its bitumen

Berossus
A Hellenistic-era Babylonian writer and astronomer from the beginning of the 3rd century BC.
The antediluvians were giants who became impious and depraved, except one among them that reverenced the gods and was wise and prudent. His name was Noa, and he dwelt in Syria with his three sons Sem, Japet, Chem, and their wives Tidea, Pandora, Noela, and Noegla. From the stars, he foresaw destruction, and he began building an ark. 78 years after he began building, the oceans, inland seas, and rivers burst forth from beneath, attended by many days of violent rain. The waters overflowed all the mountains, and the human race was drowned except Noa and his family who survived on his ship. The ship came to rest at last on the top of the Gendyae or Mountain. Parts of it still remain, which men take bitumen from to make charms against evil.

Equally old are the Indian (Vedic) and Egyptian accounts.

INDIA
Manu, the first human, found a small fish in his washwater. The fish begged protection from the larger fishes, in return for which it would save Manu from a flood. Manu kept the fish safe until it grew large, and later the fish saved Manu from a deluge. “The Lord of the Universe,” to preserve king Satyavarata from dangers of the depravity of the age, sent him a large ship, and told him to gather himself, medicinal herbs, and pairs of brute animals aboard it to save them from a flood. Seven days later, the three worlds were flooded and darkened. The god appeared in the ocean as an enormous fish, a million leagues long, and Satyavarata tied the ark to its horn. There is also a Rig-vedic story about Indra, the storm god, releasing the waters of the deluge which had been damned up by the serpent, Vritra. The Egyptian story about Set (below) is similar with the Apap-dragon taking the place of Vritra.

EGYPTIAN
There is a misunderstanding that Egyptian mythology has no flood myths. This is extraordinary as they appear to have nothing but flood stories, as far I can see.

The oldest Egyptian flood myth is dated to around 6,000 years old, and it’s before Set (or Sut) became the bad guy … which shows you how old it is. Set sent forth the deluge to destroy the evil Sebau, the Sami, the Apap-dragon and the long-armed ones. Later on, Osiris supersedes Set as Lord of the Deluge. But there is another story, this one about the Ark of Nnu that is conducted, in the death journey of the deceased, across the cosmic sea of Nun (the Milky Way) by the two birds, Isis and Nephthys. And another one about Horus steering his ark across the cosmic ocean as one pole after another is capsized, six in all, leaving only the seventh one as dry land, upon which he rested. And then there is the story where the goddess Hathor comes down to earth to destroy man with her ‘eye’ (the sun). She wreaks havoc and devastation but then appears to get a taste for it. Ra then takes pity on man and sends a flood of beer to put out the fires.

MEDITERRANEAN
Greek
Zeus sends a flood to destroy all of humanity. But Prometheus warns his son, Deucalion, about the coming deluge, and advises him to build an ark.

SCANDINAVIA
Norse
In Norse mythology, there are two separate deluges. The first occurred at the dawn of time before the world was formed. Ymir, the first giant, was killed by the god Odin and his brothers Vili and Ve, and when he fell, so much blood flowed from his wounds that it drowned almost the entire race of giants with the exception of the frost giant Bergelmir and his wife. They escaped in a ship and survived, becoming the progenitors of a new race of giants. Ymir’s body was then used to form the earth while his blood became the sea. The second flood is destined to occur in the future during the final battle between the gods and giants, known as Ragnarök. During this apocalyptic event, Jormungandr, the great World Serpent that lies beneath the sea surrounding Midgard, the realm of mortals, will rise up from the watery depths to join the conflict, resulting in a catastrophic flood that will drown the land. However, following Ragnarök the earth will be reborn and a new age of humanity will begin.

THE AMERICAS
The Quechua (pre-Inca Andean)
The world wanted to come to an end. A llama, knowing this, was depressed. When its human owner complained that it wouldn’t eat, the llama told him of the imminent flood and suggested they go to Villca Coto mountain. They arrived there to find the peak already filled with all kinds of animals. The flood came as soon as they arrived and lasted five days. Afterwards, the man began to multiply once more.

Mayan
The gods used a flood to destroy the wooden people, an early imperfect version of humanity.

The Shaur ( Andes Mountains)
In a tobacco-induced dream [Aha! - Ish] , a hunter was told by the daughter of the water spirit Tsunki to return to a river. He did so, met the woman, followed her to her father’s house, and became her husband. When he returned to his home on earth, she took the form of a snake. Once while he was off hunting, though, his two earthly wives tormented her, and she returned to her father. Tsunki, in a rage, flooded the earth, drowning everyone but the hunter and one of his daughters, who escaped to a mountaintop. These two repopulated the world.

The Caddo (Texas/Oklahoma)
Four monsters grew large and powerful until they were high enough to touch the sky. One man heard a voice telling him to plant a hollow reed. He did so, and it quickly grew very big. He, his wife, and pairs of all good animals entered the reed. Waters rose to cover everything but the top of the reed and the heads of the monsters. Turtle destroyed the monsters by digging under them and uprooting them. The waters subsided, and winds dried the earth.

The Hopi
The people repeatedly became distant from Sotuknang, the creator. Twice he destroyed the world (by fire and by cold) and recreated it while the few people who still lived by the laws of creation took shelter underground with the ants. When people became corrupt and warlike a third time, Sotuknang guided the ones who had retained their wisdom to Spider Woman, who cut down giant reeds and sheltered the people in the hollow stems with a little water and food. Sotuknang caused a great flood with rain and waves, and the people floated in their reeds for a long time. Finally, they came to rest on a small piece of land, and Spider Woman unsealed their reeds and pulled them out by the tops of their heads. They still had as much food as they started with. They sent out birds to find more land, but to no avail. They grew a tall reed and climbed it, but they saw only water. But guided by their inner wisdom (which comes from Sotuknang through the door at the top of their head), the people traveled on, using the reeds as canoes. They went northeast, finding progressively larger islands. The last of these was large and fruitful, and people wanted to stay there, but Spider Woman urged them on. They went further northeast, paddling hard as if going uphill, until they came to the Fourth World. The shores were rocky with seemingly no place to land, but by opening the doors at the tops of their head, they found a current that took them to a sandy beach. Sotuknang appeared and told them to look back, and they saw the islands, the last remnants of the Third World, sink into the ocean,

Michoacan (Mexico)
When the flood waters began to rise, a man named Tezpi entered into a great vessel, taking with him his wife and children and diverse seeds and animals. When the waters abated, the man sent out a vulture, but the bird found plenty of corpses to eat and didn’t return. Other birds also flew away and didn’t return. Finally, he sent out a hummingbird, which returned with a green bough in its beak.

Tarahumara (Northern Mexico)
People were once fighting among themselves, and Father God (Tata Dios) sent much rain, drowning everyone. After the flood, God sent three men and three women to repopulate the earth. They planted three kinds of corn which still grow in the country.

Toltec (Mexico)
One of the Tezcatlipocas (sons of the original dual god) transformed himself into the Sun and created the first humans to show up his brothers. The other gods, angry at his audacity, had Quetzalcoatl destroy the sun and the earth, which he did with a flood. The people became fish. This ended the first age. The second, third, and fourth Suns ended, respectively, with the crumbling of the heavens, a rain of fire, and devastating winds.

Nahua (central Mexico)
People in three previous ages were destroyed by being devoured by jaguars, swept away by the wind and turned into monkeys, and transformed into birds in a rain of fire. The sun of 4 Water lasted 676 years; then the heavens came down in one day, and the people were inundated and transformed into fish. In the next age, Titlacahuan (Tezcatlipoca) told a man known as Nata (“Our Father”) and his consort Nene to hollow out an aheuhuetl (cypress?) log and enter it during the vigil of Toçoztli, when the heavens would come crashing down. He sealed them in with a single ear of corn apiece to eat. When they had finished eating all the kernels, they heard the water declining.

Mixtec (northern Oaxaca, Mexico)
The earth was once well populated, when mankind committed a magical fault for which they were punished by a great deluge. The Mixtec people descended from the few survivors.

Quiché (Guatemala)
The wooden people, an early version of humanity, were imperfect because there was nothing in their hearts and minds, and they did not remember Heart of Sky. So Heart of Sky destroyed them with a flood. He sent down a black rain of resin; animals came into their houses and attacked them; and even pots and stones crushed them. The dogs and turkeys told them, “You caused us pain, you ate us. Now we eat you.” Their other animals and implements likewise turned on them. They tried to escape onto their houses, into trees, and into caves, but the houses collapsed, the trees threw them off, and the caves slammed shut. Today’s monkeys are a sign of these people, mere manikins. This was before the sun dawned on the earth.

AFRICA
Kwaya (Lake Victoria)
The ocean was once enclosed in a small pot kept by a man and his wife under the roof of their hut to fill their larger pots. The man told his daughter-in-law never to touch it because it contained their sacred ancestors. But she grew curious and touched it. It shattered, and the resulting flood drowned everything.

Yoruba (southwest Nigeria)
A god, Ifa, tired of living on earth and went to dwell in the firmament with Obatala. Without his assistance, mankind couldn’t interpret the desires of the gods, and one god, Olokun, in a fit of rage, destroyed nearly everybody in a great flood.

FAR EAST AND ASIA
Vogul
After seven years of drought, the Great Woman said to the Great Man that rains had come elsewhere: how should they save themselves? The Great Man counseled the other giants to make boats from cut poplars, anchor them with ropes of willow roots 500 fathoms long, and provide them with seven days of food and with pots of melted butter to grease the ropes. Those who did not make all the preparations perished when the waters came. After seven days, the waters sank. But all plants and animals had perished, even the fish. The survivors, on the brink of starvation, prayed to the great god Numi-târom, who recreated living things.

Yenisey-Ostyak (north central Siberia)
Flood waters rose for seven days. Some people and animals were saved by climbing on floating logs and rafters. A strong north wind blew for seven days and scattered the people, which is why there are now different peoples speaking different languages.

Tuvinian (Soyot) (north of Mongolia)
The giant frog (or turtle) which supported the earth moved, which caused the cosmic ocean to begin flooding the earth. An old man who had guessed something like this would happen built an iron-reinforced raft, boarded it with his family, and was saved. When the waters receded, the raft was left on a high wooded mountain, where, it is said, it remains today. After the flood, Kezer-Tshingis-Kaira-Khan created everything around us. Among other things, he taught people how to make strong liquor.

Tibet
Tibet was almost totally inundated, until the god Gya took compassion on the survivors, drew off the waters through Bengal, and sent teachers to civilize the people, who until then had been little better than monkeys. Those people repopulated the land.

Ifugaos (Philippines)
A great draught dried up all the rivers. The old men suggested digging in a river bed to find the soul of the river. After three days of digging, a great spring gushed forth, but while the Ifugaos celebrated, a storm came, the river kept rising, and the elders advised people to run for the mountains. Only two people made it to safety, a brother and sister, on separate mountains. After six months, the waters receded. The sister later found herself with child and ran away in shame, but the god Maknongan assured her that her shame had no foundation.

Kammu (Thailand)
A brother and sister, warned of the upcoming flood by a mouse, sealed themselves inside a drum, and emerged again after the flood receded. They looked far and wide for mates, but they were the only survivors. A malcoha cuckoo sang to them, “brother and sister should embrace one another.” They slept together. After seven years, the child was born as a gourd. A little later, hearing noises from the gourd, they burnt a hole in its shell, and people of the different races came out, first Rumeet, then Kammu, Thai, Westerner, and Chinese.

AUSTRALASIA
New Guinea
Lohero and his brother were angry with their neighbors, so they put a human bone into a small stream. Soon a great flood came forth, and the people had to retreat to the highest peaks until the sea receded. Some people descended, and others made their homes on the ridges.

Batak (Sumatra)
Naga-Padoha, the giant snake on which the earth rests, grew tired of its burden and shook it off into the sea. But the god Batara-Guru caused a mountain to fall into the water to preserve his daughter. From her, the human race is descended. Later, the earth was replaced onto the head of the snake Yuma-Komashtam’ho, who caused a great rain and started to flood out the large dangerous animals. But he was persuaded that people needed some of the animals for food. So he evaporated the waters with a great fire, turning the land to desert in the process.

There are hundreds more from around the world, from various tribes and cultures, and so this is just a handful.

I hope it makes the point that Noah was not special or unique, at least, and that the story was told in different ways all over the world because, I believe, it was a teaching story and not history.

[Ishtar]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I have heard it before, that we were genetically engineered by the Sumerians/Anunnaki, but I've never known how this is known?

What source are you using for this information?

Which part? There are diverse sources for all of it. Too many to name shortly accumulated over too many years to remember all of the article and book titles, references and accolades. Are we required to list traditional academic sources? Alternative? Anthropology? Biology? Cosmology? What are you looking for in order to ascertain validity?

Well, just something for verification other than a writer's vivid imagination.

For example, archaeological artifacts, genetic studies, linguistics ....

I don't mean citing references... just for instance, as I've said above,

"I agree with Giorgio de Santillana, professor of the history of science at MIT, and Hertha von Dechend of Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität, who in their seminal book, Hamlet's Mill, explained how ancients myths were originally astronomical teaching stories about the precessional journey.."

So then at least the reader can check out the book and see if it rings true to them....

[Mark]

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I don't mean citing references... just for instance, as I've said above,

"I agree with Giorgio de Santillana, professor of the history of science at MIT, and Hertha von Dechend of Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universität, who in their seminal book, Hamlet's Mill, explained how ancients myths were originally astronomical teaching stories about the precessional journey.."

So then at least the reader can check out the book and see if it rings true to them....

Well, there is plenty of research out there for people to peruse, as you and I both have over many years of looking into these issues. As I have neither the time nor the desire to do other's research for them, I generally just state what I've learned and synthesized and allow people to go out and find out for themselves. I did all that for years and years and am, quite frankly, quite tired of it. I am not here to debate or fight, I just responded to your question about what I think by telling you what I have found in my research. I understand you would like to create a record here so I wish you the best of luck with it.

[Ishtar]

Rahkyt, I hope you don't think I was doubting you or trying to trip you up. I respect your research, as I think you know, and your intelligence very much. It's just that I'm the sort of a person that needs to make up their own mind, and I need material to do that from, that's all. And that's the reason for this thread, to see what we can really stand up, what's supported by credible sources, and what's just someone's idea. To sort the wheat from the chaff. ... but thank you, anyway.

[Mark]

Oh no, I know. No offense taken on my part, promise. I'm just saying, in general. If I'm going to do so, of course I would do it in your thread as I respect the work that you've done in this area as well as your measured perspective.

This is an important topic, so I will attempt to explain, but first, let me state generally that I am of the camp that also believes that Noah's Flood was a real event. In my research, I find the geologic evidence to be overwhelming. Similarly, when it comes to the genetic manipulation of humanity I think there is quite a bit of evidence that it has occurred. I also look to the archeological evidence in the form of megaliths and cultural/religious/spiritual correlations between civilizations on different sides of the world as irrefutable evidence that our current understanding of ancient technologies and potentiality is limited by hubris and by the inability to think multidimensionally. The scientific method is outdated and linearly ineffective in a world where synthesis and a holographic understanding of reality as being composed of interactive and interacting layers of consciousness is the new understanding of holistic knowledge-gathering.

As I stated previously, I do not necessarily limit genetic intervention with humanity to the Anunnaki alone. Have you read Cremo's Human Devolution or Forbidden Archaeology? I've read both and the evidence that is shared there regarding the existence of homo sapien sapien or some potentially extra-terrestrial progenitor that was, for all intents and purposes, physiologically similar to us, did indeed exist and walk this planet. Cremo speaks extensively, and lists examples from science, of the possibility of the modification of dna/life encoding through measures beyond what we might consider to be mainstream science.

Cellular modification, genetic modification, healing, pre-birth impressions, etc. Science supports the possibility that the form of something is present as a non-corporeal energetic resonance before the form is even present, which implies what spiritual belief systems have always known to be true, that there is a higher form of everything in existence that then manifests as an expression of that form. Taking that potentiality literally means that the human form as it currently exists could be an expression of higher forms of consciousness, with bodies made to fit whatever level they might be expressive of. I mention this primarily because it is through what might seem to be ancillary research that we can augment sparse archaeological research in determining what was possible back then and what is not. From that start, we can then re-interpret the physical record in light of a greater understanding of reality and its lack of pre-conceived limitations.

Much of what seems like myth in the ancient cosmologies reads like magic and sounds like advanced quantum and mind-based science. It's quite possible to explain things simply in a mythopoeic manner and actually be speaking of something quite spiritually and technologically advanced. Regarding the Anunnaki in particular, I don't even believe that they have to be called that or were actually called that or known as that in the many, many cultures that hearken back unto the time when humanity left one of potentially multiple cradles of civilization. Whoever these entities were who have entered into our consciousnesses by whatever means, they left an indelible mark upon our past, present and future.

Not that I believe that the rendition of the 'gods' places them at any greater spiritual advantage than us. As described by to many cosmologies across the planet to name, they are jealous, in-fighting, murderous, narcissistic, egotistical and all the rest, just like we are, if they exist. I believe that the vast amount of information in all these interrelated areas of the geographic continuum are just way too indicative of extra and ultra-terrestrial intervention to be totally baseless.

[kersley]

Posted by Ishtar (here)

Posted by kersley (here)

In the Sumerian poem ‘Dispute between Summer and Winter’, we read:

Enlil, the king of all the lands, set his mind.
He thrust his penis into the Great Mountain (HAR.SAG)...
Summer and Winter, the fecundating overflow of the land, he poured into the womb.
Wheresoever Enlil would thrust his penis, he roared like a wild bull.
There, HAR.SAG spent the day, rested happily at night,
Delivered herself of Summer and Winter like rich cream...

There is also a Celtic mythological dispute between Summer and Winter, and it's the view of an archeaoastronomer friend of mine that it is an astronomical battle between the constellations visible in the winter months giving way to the constellations that dominate the skies in the summer months, and then vice versa when winter comes round again.

In the Welsh Mabinogion, the hero Pwyll has to fight the Lord of Summer on behalf of Gwynn, the Lord of Winter and ruler of the Underworld.

There is much besides this to show that so many myths came from the same 'pool' when all the Indo-European tribes and those of the Dene Caucasians were gathered together in Siberia and Central Asia just after the last Ice Age, before migrating south to Mesopotamia, India, Greece and Egypt and west to Europe.

It is also further evidence that the myths are much older than Sumer.

Ishtar,, the more I read the more I think Bill should interview you?... Not only do I agree with you but your knowledge is vast.. maybe you should consider writing a book or few on this subject..
Just to sum up things, can you answer the following for me please?
1 / Sitchin was on the right track but got carried away and made most of it up to sell books?
2 / before man was created on this planet, the ancient tell a tale of gods coming to earth meaning meteor and fire balls?
3 / would the Annunaki (fire balls) fell to earth as a form of energy?
4 / Can I assume the the god spirit we all talk about is a massive energy full of particle and whatever came along with it was from the exploded planet..
5 / if anyone can I'm sure it's you.. show me in the Sumerian tablets where it says Enki, Enlil, Anu or any member of that family created humans?
I'm not saying that's what you said. I would just like you or anyone to point me to that reference..
Kersley..

[Ria]

Ishtar,Thank you, for all the stories. interestingly I have seen an arial photo of the remains of a massive boat on to of some mountains. Sinai peninsular I think.

[777]

I think it's fair to say that all our "divine" myths have a metaphoric morsel worthy of muse. This is absolutely no accident. To treat is to indulge. To indulge is a treat. To recognize that they all tie in is priceless. We keep getting shown the same story, in our myth, legend, masonicly involved media acceptance, social behaviour, social ignorance/willingness to serve a righteous cause.

Best "grass routes" thread I've seen in a while.

[Ishtar]

Posted by Ria (here)
Ishtar,Thank you, for all the stories. interestingly I have seen an arial photo of the remains of a massive boat on to of some mountains. Sinai peninsular I think.

Do you mean the one on Mount Ararat? I don't mean to keep pouring cold water on everything, but it has been shown to be a fake. The wood was really new and had been hauled up there from the Black Sea.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by kersley (here)

Posted by Ishtar (here)

Posted by kersley (here)

In the Sumerian poem ‘Dispute between Summer and Winter’, we read:

Enlil, the king of all the lands, set his mind.
He thrust his penis into the Great Mountain (HAR.SAG)...
Summer and Winter, the fecundating overflow of the land, he poured into the womb.
Wheresoever Enlil would thrust his penis, he roared like a wild bull.
There, HAR.SAG spent the day, rested happily at night,
Delivered herself of Summer and Winter like rich cream...

There is also a Celtic mythological dispute between Summer and Winter, and it's the view of an archeaoastronomer friend of mine that it is an astronomical battle between the constellations visible in the winter months giving way to the constellations that dominate the skies in the summer months, and then vice versa when winter comes round again.

In the Welsh Mabinogion, the hero Pwyll has to fight the Lord of Summer on behalf of Gwynn, the Lord of Winter and ruler of the Underworld.

There is much besides this to show that so many myths came from the same 'pool' when all the Indo-European tribes and those of the Dene Caucasians were gathered together in Siberia and Central Asia just after the last Ice Age, before migrating south to Mesopotamia, India, Greece and Egypt and west to Europe.

It is also further evidence that the myths are much older than Sumer.

Ishtar,, the more I read the more I think Bill should interview you?... Not only do I agree with you but your knowledge is vast.. maybe you should consider writing a book or few on this subject..
Just to sum up things, can you answer the following for me please?
1 / Sitchin was on the right track but got carried away and made most of it up to sell books?
2 / before man was created on this planet, the ancient tell a tale of gods coming to earth meaning meteor and fire balls?
3 / would the Annunaki (fire balls) fell to earth as a form of energy?
4 / Can I assume the the god spirit we all talk about is a massive energy full of particle and whatever came along with it was from the exploded planet..
5 / if anyone can I'm sure it's you.. show me in the Sumerian tablets where it says Enki, Enlil, Anu or any member of that family created humans?
I'm not saying that's what you said. I would just like you or anyone to point me to that reference..
Kersley..

I don't think I'd interview very well. I'm much more of a writer than a talker.

You're asking me a lot of questions that I can't answer without writing a book.

So unless you're going to commission me to write it, why not just stick around and see what comes out in the wash?

I have answered that Sitchin made it up about the Anunnaki being gods on rockets from other planets.

You can do your own Sumerian text search here. Just put in the key words you're looking for, and it will give you the texts.

[Laurel]

About 25-30 years ago, there was a man who had a tv show on one of the old independent stations. He had some really interesting theories. One thing he talked about was that the great flood came up from the earth through a large crack that ran along the Grand Canyon. He somehow showed that the crack ran around the entire earth. I've tried to find him on Google and Youtube with no luck.

[Ishtar]

Hi Rahkyt,

Thanks for replying. Much to agree with here, and much to discuss.

The geological evidence for floods is overwhelming, as you say. The glaciers melting after the last Ice Age, when all the Indo European tribes were gathered in Siberia, meant that most of the northern hemisphere was under water. It’s just that I think the ancients took those floods, after they happened, to use as metaphor for the astronomical End of Days, which happened after a pole shift at the end of the precession of the equinoxes. It's clearer to see this from the Egyptian texts, and the Coming Forth Into Day stories.

I know Michael Cremo as we are both part of the Pleistocene Coalition and he has written on my forum. Michael has a literal view of the Vedas which I also disagree with for the same reasons … I believe that the Vedas is mythology and not history, for all the reasons I’ve been giving through this thread, and Michael's never come up with anything to convince me otherwise.

But like Michael, I also believe and work for the recognition of intelligent man being here on this planet much earlier than orthodoxy will allow.

I also believe that science hasn’t got the first clue about much of this because scientists are trained to look outwards, rather than inwards where I believe the answers lie.

I also agree that there is much magic in mythological texts, and I say this as a practitioner of magic .. and that’s how I recognise it.

But I disagree about the gods (spirits) being ‘jealous, in-fighting, murderous, narcissistic, egotistical and all the rest, just like we are’. We are only like that because we are separated from the knowledge and experience of our true spiritual nature, which is pure Divine Love, and so we act from a place of fear and loathing. However, this universe runs on Love, in my experience. The Anu is pure Love. It creates the creation out of pure Love. It’s isn’t an inanimate, indifferent, random process, in my experience.

But the spirits (more recently known as the gods) that I meet haven’t forgotten who they are and because of that are benevolent loving creatures who only want to help man in his spiritual evolution, to reach that realisation of his true nature again. The stories about gods fighting are, in my opinion, teaching metaphors for alchemical and astronomical processes.

The Anunnaki that I meet are servants of Anu, the self-organising principle or spirit which creates this creation out of pure, unconditional Love. After all, there is no other reason that I can think of to do it. It’s not as if the creator’s getting paid for it, and nor can it be that if he’s good and works hard, he’s promised a seat in Heaven after he ‘dies’.

Why else why would you create all this, if not for Love?

[Ria]

bump......................

[Aetheric Traveler]

Posted by Ria (here)
Aetheric Traveler,ooh I might have to put you under the microscope "WE ARE THE ANUNNAKI"? .......and what species might that be??????? go on I know you think you know. or you know you know.

Friend Ria,

I realized when I made the comment, "WE ARE THE ANNUNAKI" in all capital letters, that very few people would take that seriously.

Congratulations, you are one of the few, the bold, the curious, the skeptical, but most importantly, the inquisitive. It's very funny that you say "put me under the microscope" as my research, hence, my opinion leads me to believe the proper way to answer the next question you put forth, "and what species might that be???????" is answered by the hybrid term "MINI-ANNUNAKI". So, really, WE need to put ourselves under the microscope as the mini-Annunaki.

What you are about to read as my opinion, my explanation, my hypothesis, is not totally or uniquely my own, but is a distillation conglomeration of many different facts, hypotheses, conjectures, summations and extrapolations to form a cogent (IMHO) and coherent explanation for both questions, "Who are/were the Annunaki, and Where did we come from".

Around the world, there is more than ample evidence that there have been giant races of hominids, miniature races who were not dwarfs and middle size races of hominids. Simply take it as a given that there are many different sizes of what may be termed Homo Sapiens.

For the wackos who believe in evolution from ape stock, please remember there is absolute genetic proof that man is a 23 gene pair hominid while the apes are 24 pair. Darwinian Evolution is impossible because matter is manifested from spirit, not the other way around. Look up any modern genetic explanation of the fusion of Gene Pair #2 and you'll find the telemeres of 2 gene pairs fused together that form one pair, making homo sapiens a 46 chromosome being. The functions of the genes that are almost all but shut down control the basic sequences of RNA/DNA that cause middle sized humans to form instead of Annunaki sized humans by decreasing bone growth, pituitary function, organ growth, etc, everything having to do with size.

Drunvalo Melchizidek points this out in his books "The Flower of Life" Vols 1 & 2, but he's not the first or the only one. Annunaki skeletons have been found that are anywhere from 16-30 feet tall Some giant skeletons have been found up to 70-100 feet tall. All of the classical historical education in the world does not contain anything but fragmentary references to these humans. Hence, we are the Annunaki, just the annotated version. My personal conjecture is that the 16-30 foot humans are the offspring of the Watchers spoken of in the bible when the so-called gods found human females attractive and mated with them, procreating what were termed "the Mighty Men of Old". The Annunaki left behind Watchers to watch over their miniature caretaker races of humans on the planet. Ever wonder why there are giant Redwood and Sequoia trees or the Might Cedars of Lebanon? These are just normal size trees for the Annunaki.

The architecture, art and historic records bear out that there were advanced races of giants on the earth and the Bible still says "In The Earth". Egyptian ancient stonework depicts giant size beings, but we are not taught that they are the actual size of the people they depicted. Egyptologists love to state they were carved larger than life in honor- in a word- Nile Mud!!!

Since the Bible quotes certain passages as saying we are not to mess with the Tree of Life-the DNA helix, it makes perfect sense to me that the Annunaki created a smaller caretaker race to tend the Garden of Eden Oasis planet in the midst of the vast desert of space that were genetic alterations of themselves to keep a claim on the planet as Annunak-ian. Other passages in the Bible and other ancient historical texts bear these thought processes out, but typing them all here means writing a book. I would certainly get heat from the Vatican for writing such a book and have no desire to do so. If they can pressure the movie industry into not making the sequel to the "Golden Compass" because it tells too much truth about the Vatican and the truth of human origins, then, why should I take the brunt of their ilk?

For all the time I've wasted on Facebook, eBay, PA and other sites, I could have written 10 books. I'm sure they would have each sold about 10,000 copies, then, bombed, because writing about this stuff is as dry as Arizona riverbed silt and just as exciting to the average person who wants to know when the next version of Android is coming out or who got bumped off the Dancing With the Stars show. Harry Potter this stuff is certainly not.

So, now you know what you thought I thinked I knew or might know I know or thought I knew or thunked I knewed !!!! LOL :>)

Cheers,
AT

[Aetheric Traveler]

Just a few odd bits to throw to the winds of conversation:

The Sumerian tablets don't use the term Annunaki, they constantly use the term Anuna.

The word Anu in many languages both ancient and modern has dual root meanings which basically distill down to 2 easily defined terms we use everyday. Love and Divinity. So many people are not aware that these two terms are identical because we as humans have become a fear based, lack-of-love-consiousness acting species in general, but, but but but but that is changing faster and faster and faster and faster and faster and faster faster faster, did I mention faster? everyday.

Love is the Divine Power. All great Masters, Avatars, etc have taught this. It's just hard for us little humans to put it into daily practice and overcome our sociological and environmental programming that replaces slowly as we grow, the divine consiousness with which we are born.

Love, Love, Love,
AT

[DNA]

Posted by Ishtar (here)
Hi Rahkyt,

Thanks for replying. Much to agree with here, and much to discuss.

I agree, Rahkyt, you are the man. I appreciate your posts, your writing is excellent and I'm always so happy to see your opinions displayed with such polish.

Posted by Ishtar (here)
I know Michael Cremo as we are both part of the Pleistocene Coalition and he has written on my forum. Michael has a literal view of the Vedas which I also disagree with for the same reasons … I believe that the Vedas is mythology and not history, for all the reasons I’ve been giving through this thread, and Michael's never come up with anything to convince me otherwise.

I can understand where you are coming from Ishtar. I agree there are ED beings that we can all communicate with. But, I don't think it is a matter of ED or ET, I think both exist. And just as ED's have probably always existed, I"m pretty sure ET's have always existed as well.
So far I have seen you argue the points of Sitchin fairly well. But that does not extend to the Vedas. For you to state that Michael Cremo (or no one else for that matter) is going to be able to convince you that the Vedas in their reference of Vimanas (space ships) have any historical validity, is stating that you have made your mind up and you are no longer accepting data on the issue.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wFssEh-b7A8

If you take the research of men like Joseph Farrell into account in connection to the Nazi Bell project, you see that the Nazi's took the Vimanas very seriously, and there are strong correlations being made in connection to the progress the Nazis were making in this direction and their interest in the Vimanas of India where they sent known expeditions to India and Tibet to pursue.

Posted by Ishtar (here)
But I disagree about the gods (spirits) being ‘jealous, in-fighting, murderous, narcissistic, egotistical and all the rest, just like we are’.

You see, you are interpreting the term (gods) to be (spirits). I think just as you are recognizing the dramas that are being conveyed in the ancient stories about the gods, you are seeing behavior that is demonstrative of human type individuals. And that just means we have fellow physical incarnating beings dealing with the same short comings that we our selves deal with. This gives more credence to these gods being space travelling beings rather than spirits.

Posted by Ishtar (here)
But the spirits (more recently known as the gods) that I meet haven’t forgotten who they are and because of that are benevolent loving creatures who only want to help man in his spiritual evolution, to reach that realisation of his true nature again. The stories about gods fighting are, in my opinion, teaching metaphors for alchemical and astronomical processes.

Sure I have no problem with the part about spirits wanting to help. That's fine, but that has nothing to do with ancient gods. It has little or nothing to do with ancient beings depicted in tablets from 5,000 years ago.

It sounds like your making some of the same correlations many of my christian friends make. You are viewing the world through (the spirits I talk to) colored glasses. Instead of seeing christ or yehweh in everything, you see the spirits you talk to in everything.

I don't think there is any connection between the spirits you talk to and the ancient aliens who came to this planet tens of thousands of years ago.

Posted by Ishtar (here)
The Anunnaki that I meet are servants of Anu, the self-organising principle or spirit which creates this creation out of pure, unconditional Love. After all, there is no other reason that I can think of to do it. It’s not as if the creator’s getting paid for it, and nor can it be that if he’s good and works hard, he’s promised a seat in Heaven after he ‘dies’.

Why else why would you create all this, if not for Love?

I can't understand talking to spirits who would still call themselves Annunaki. That is truly perplexing to me. I can understand identifying with a specific time line in so far as your incarnating is concerned, but to call spirits now serving creator the Annunaki is a stretch.
Why call them the Annunaki and get into this whole debate over ancient aliens and or ancient religion? Why not just call the folks you are talking to "spirits" and leave the ancient astronaut thing alone?

Take Care
DNA

[Aetheric Traveler]

As time and human understanding progress, mankind will find out that the Vedas, the Ramayana and the Mahabharata are all true historical accounts, not allegories, metaphors and myths. These epics tell the tales of ancient times from a point of view that was of a people less sophisticated than today's human in terms of electronic gadgetry, but still highly advanced in terms of high level application of the highest sciences of electromagnetism.

It has taken the last 2000 years for mankind to re-develop the lost knowledge that is slowly being re-discovered as "nothing new".

In order to undestand the incredible electrical nature of the Great Pyramid, one must learn the sciences of electricity, the aether, the chemistry involved in creating poured stone with pre-desired electrical qualities, the geometry of the Earth, the Sun's cycles and all the other high sciences that man is re-discovering. As these sciences are re-learned, the evidence of high science used in ancient times becomes apparent and academic brain-lock has to release its hold on stubborn ignorance.

The horrid truth is that gov'ts have been suppressing high electrical sciences for the last 100 years to cater to big oil dollar interests simply out of purely human greed. Nebiru and Annunaki would be common terms today and the Earth a completely different place if the likes of Rockefeller, Morgan, Rothschild and their cronies were not able to tempt, corrupt and distort the sociological fabric of the world.

The most incredible thing of all is that there is so much evidence to support all of these incredible things, events, concepts and existences of other beings, other dimensions, other visitors, other sciences, yet the stranglehold of perception perpetrated by the Overcontrollers of this planet against the general public (Likened to the Dumb-Masses, say fast as one word), has been so successful as to make the reality of it all a questionable lunacy, instead of an accepted body of facts. Irony, to say the least, but in the highest sense of spiritual growth for soul beings, (I believe), the greatest opportunity for awakening and enlightenment.

Cheers,
AT

[Aetheric Traveler]

As I read the posts of responses and statements back and forth between other users, I can see there is a great deal of questioning going on about the use of the terms, gods, Gods and spirits. To that effect, and to hopefully offer some outlines for filtering, dissemination and clarification so others may see there are no hard and fast labels that "always stick" and are inviolate, I hope my explanations of my current viewpoints that I use will be good enough to cover as many facets of these terms as possible regarding how they are generally used and misused. Learning is a great evolution of mental progress from point of view and not always a black line drawn on a white paper.

Spirits are generally referred to as non-corporeal entities and vice versa. Pardon the pun, but that in itself is not set in stone as there are spiritual entities capable of embodiement by choice, then, dissoluting/dissolving their embodied forms to return back to spiritual energetics which allow them a much greater freedom of "being". The word "human being" denotes a specific physical form. Since many human beings can be spiritually attuned enough to communicate with non-corporeal entities, much literature exists where "Spirits" are referred to as "gods" and "Gods", when they are simply just spirit entities. The fact they might offer guidance, assitance, healing interactions and other high-level spiritual knowledge makes it easy for humans to mistake them as gods, Gods and "GOD". GOD is such a Great Mystery, that I'm certainly unqualified to describe the concept in a post. Since we are all GOD, and GOD exists in everything and GOD or Divinity is easiest explained by using the limited human terms "The Ultimate Power of Love", then, all phyiscal and non-physical beings, things, and systems are expressions of differentiated vibratory rates of light, which is just one aspect of GOD. Even what we call Dark is GOD. I'll stop there, because I'm not qualified to explain more.

Now this brings us to "gods" and their labels by humans across the ages. Much confusion is to be had about the term gods in many different cultures and histories because any time humans see things they don't understand, fear, or revere as "higher than themselves", they have used the term "gods" and sometimes "Gods".

To put this into greater perspective requires examining history and revealing the cyclical ups and downs of the highs and lows of civilizations and human mental sophistication over the last 20,000-30,000 years. No easy task, considering modern academia and religious groups clash wildly and violently over just how long the world and man has existed or how much written history is acceptable or even exists. That discussion alone could take books worth, but the point is the proof of cyclical, sine wave type "advanced" versus "degenerate" levels of knowledge and civilization are really proven by the existence of both sides of the argument.

This leads us to consider the references to groups of beings called "the Watchers" and here is where my interpretation comes in because no reliable confirmation in history exists as to the exact description of the nature, origin and capabilities of the Watchers. Suffice it to say there were beings called the Watchers because the advanced beings that left behind something and someone to be "watched" were called Watchers by the watched. I'm sure all of this will come out in the "watsch" sometime in the future. LOL :>)

So we have an advanced group watching a not-so advanced group which can easily mistake them for gods/Gods and create histories about them, the references of which survive in fragmentary form throughout ancient literature. Human beings have perceptions which creep into everything, become entrenched as accepted concepts, then, turn into dogmatic traditions which are defended at the cost of death to any who would assail those traditions. Just try telling any hard-headed Christian Fundamentalist that the world was not created only 6000 years ago or that Jesus the Christ is not the ONE and ONLY example of GOD and you might find yourself roasting on a spit or dismemebered by a mob if you happen to spout off your viewpoint amongst the wrong crowd at the wrong time.

So, when the Watchers started mingling with the humans they were supposed to be "only watching", the term gods starts getting blurry as the watched populace finds out they are not GODs. History changes again and the term takes on new meanings. Now, add to that evolutionary word-play, the return of the advanced beings who created the advanced systems of the planet which have fallen into ruin and disrepair, and the humans being watched have opportunity to witness the Watchers being accused of violating the Non-Interference Directive aka Star Trek.

And if that wasn't enough, add to that even further, the observance of beings capable of coming and going in and out of physical form at will, who are not limited to space travel using FTL (Faster Than Light) ships, and the humans of the Earth are going to confuse the terms gods, Gods, and GOD even more. Since there are beings who travel using FTL ships who are not totally spiritual, just technologically advanced, they can also be mistaken as gods, Gods and by lesser humans, possibly even GOD.

So, how does this relate to people capable of having shamanic experiences even though they are still physio-spiritually themselves limited to staying in physical form? My belief is that we contact the higher parts of ourselves which are referred to as the Monad, a dazzling puzzle of overlapping intra-dimensional existences which are all parts of GOD OURSELVES AS ONE. Whatever terms we communicate with are those that we can refer to consciously when were are moving back and forth between totally corporeal and corporo-spiritual experiences as transitional learning beings. If a person considers using the term Annunaki to refer to spiritual entities as the Gods, this appears to me to be the person's own path of understanding at the time according to their exposure to knowledge up to that point in their lives. Another person may have a highly similar experience and call those same entities which are a part of their higher self by other names. Words are so limited in scope of understanding as to convey only parts of meanings, not entireties.

These are my beliefs and opinions, at this point in my short span of time on the planet according to what I've been exposed to intellectually. They work for me as I learn and grow mentally and spiritually. They are constantly evolving as I learn more, do more and see more of my past limitations of mind, body and spirit. Sharing is worth the time it takes to type all this because it may helps others, illicit responses to cause me to question part or all of my beliefs, or get responses from others that further my own understanding.

Love and Light,
AT

[Ishtar]

Hi DNA

In my experience, the Nazi Bell project is almost as mythical as the Anunnaki. Unless I can see really good evidence for it, why should take your word, or anyone's word, that it exists? I doubt you have first hand knowledge or that you've seen it in action. I do know all about it, by the way... or know what it's supposed to be. But I'm not "closing my mind to data" as you say. I would just like to SEE some data, ANY DATA, for all the belief systems that are taken for granted such as that the Anunnaki were evil and are coming again on Planet Nibiru. Thats why I opened this thread, and so far, no DATA has turned up.

There's no data to back any of this up. You either choose to believe it or you choose not to. I respect that you've given this much thought and have come to the view you have, but you must understand, it is just a view, and you should understand that others are worthy of respect for the views they come to. It's not a question of a closed mind, just because they've come to a different view to you.

So, on to vimanas. The only tests done on vimanas have failed miserably. That's probably because the literature about them is forged, which wouldn't be difficult if you know anything about how the Vedas was preserved. Unlike with the Sumerians who carved their texts on clay tablets, the Vedas were not written down but orally transmitted. And so it wasn't until at least a thousand years after the Vedas were composed that they were reconstructed and then written down, on highly biodegradable palm leaves.

However, the Vaimanika Shastra within which we read about the vimanas was not "reconstructed" (actually, dictated) until the 20th century CE, by a Pandit Shastry who attributed it to an ancient sage... but there is no guarantee about the authenticity of any of it.

In any case, a university in India, I believe, tried to make one of these vimanas fly, and failed miserably. It is said that the author displays little knowledge of how machines actually fly.

If you knew anything about my background (and there's no reason why you should) you'd know I'd be first to advocate that the ancient Vedics had flying machines if I really thought they did. So again, this is not a closed mind talking. It is a mind that has studied the Vedas. Have you?

There is no reason that I can see, to believe that the ancient Indians had flying vimanas, unless you want to show me some data that I may have missed.

Posted by DNA (here)
I can't understand talking to spirits who would still call themselves Annunaki. That is truly perplexing to me. I can understand identifying with a specific time line in so far as your incarnating is concerned, but to call spirits now serving creator the Annunaki is a stretch.
Why call them the Annunaki and get into this whole debate over ancient aliens and or ancient religion? Why not just call the folks you are talking to "spirits" and leave the ancient astronaut thing alone?

The spirits tell us their names, DNA, just like you have a name and I have a name. They don't just turn up as a bunch of amorphous energetic entities, otherwise, it would be impossible to build any kind of relationship with them. There are all sort of different spirits and I work with lots of them. In fact, the name is crucial because otherwise, how would I call a certain spirit to help me with a situation or to answer my question?