Sex at Dawn, an Anthropological Review of Sex

[minkton]

I've always believed that monogomy wasnt natural for me, that I could commit and have fidelity to a person, and that commitment and fidelity was in no way broken by my having sexual connections with others.

I really dont believe this any longer. I think I was deluding myself in order to gratify my senses and have adventures and get to know people that I wanted to be with. And all the time I was diluting my attention for my partner and weakening the energy field between us and basically shortchanging myself, him, and anyone else I was involved with.

I'm fine that I did that, but I have decided never to behave that way again. And a new germ has arisen in me which sees monogamy as a sacred contract the alchemy and depth of which is unknowable and unfathomable without entering into the arrangement and living it wholeheartedly.

Dispersal of emotional and sexual attention has it's place, and so does focus. If we dont ever focus and become laser like in that focus, we will never know what we can achieve. I am speaking of a sexual relationship as a tantric spiritual vessel that needs to be sealed and subjected to heat for transformation to take place.

I see it as a very unfashionable pont of view.. the whole unity consciousness movement is about breaking down boundaries and monogamy seems to be restrictive. I just dont see that anymore. I see that true love can be fostered and grow to unknown proportions when the commitment is there, and that distractions of others will be as nothing when the level of commitment and engrossment is deep enough.

So I guess I dont care about what bonobos or other animals do, because my sexuality is as conscious as I canmake it, and always has been. Everything we do should be a choice. A conscious choice. We can witness hormone drives. They dont have to drive us.

So! I feel a bit ass - backwards in this thread, that I'm not lauding sexual freedom as the highest good. I'm a bit 'been there, done that'.. Now I seem to have evolved an ideal,I wasnt expecting to have this point of view, it has just evolved.. it just remains to be seen if I can attract a partner into my life with whom I can live this.

So I guess my point is,if we are on a growth path, our sexual choices reflect where we are at in our personal stages of development, and what we need for our next stage of growth. Anthropology doesnt and cant take into account tantra and alchemy and the connection between sex and spirit, so apology for being a bit tangental to topic..

[aranuk]

Posted by christinedream7 (here)
Yes ive wondered this...monogomy being unnatural?...

i was in another country (in school with other students) and they were very suprised that we were not all having sex with each other in our camp..it was very natural for them to think in "free sexual" terms.
In an industrial society they NEED men/women workers to stay put to work for the "machine". So "families" and culture will condition everyone to live this way--one family unit-mortgage to keep u in debt/place for all of ur working age.
In AFRICA do u think the government gives a FlyIN Fk where "their" people are or what their doing?, no---they certainly arent grooming them for industry!? So they wander the vast wilderness living, i suppose, closer to the "animal" nature of human.
As a female, i can certainly agree UNEQUIVOCALLY...from what ive witnessed, and sorry fellas!, men do not care to be ONLY with one woman. Its as if men are living against the grain.

Hi Christine, which country was that you visited? I am curious.
Not that I want to book a holiday there.
Stan

[Kimberley]

While researching this topic I found this short 9 minute interview from one of my favorite interviewers Thom Hartman...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wpN8K-WIIDM

[CD7]

Posted by aranuk (here)

Posted by christinedream7 (here)
Yes ive wondered this...monogomy being unnatural?...

i was in another country (in school with other students) and they were very suprised that we were not all having sex with each other in our camp..it was very natural for them to think in "free sexual" terms.
In an industrial society they NEED men/women workers to stay put to work for the "machine". So "families" and culture will condition everyone to live this way--one family unit-mortgage to keep u in debt/place for all of ur working age.
In AFRICA do u think the government gives a FlyIN Fk where "their" people are or what their doing?, no---they certainly arent grooming them for industry!? So they wander the vast wilderness living, i suppose, closer to the "animal" nature of human.
As a female, i can certainly agree UNEQUIVOCALLY...from what ive witnessed, and sorry fellas!, men do not care to be ONLY with one woman. Its as if men are living against the grain.

Hi Christine, which country was that you visited? I am curious.
Not that I want to book a holiday there.
Stan

It was Kenya...i doubt u want to book a holiday with those poor people who wander the wilderness looking for watering holes. Hence my comment soon afterward regarding Africa

[aranuk]

I said not that I want to book a holiday there. Why did you say "I doubt u want to book a holiday etc"? So it was Kenya? thanks

Stan

[write4change]

Posted by pharoah21 (here)
I started a thread a few months ago immediately after breaking up with my girlfriend, asking questions about these very issues being discussed. I asked 'what is wrong with cheating' but obviously with the way I worded it, people would not answer the question, and all they would say is "Cheating is wrong! Even the word is bad!".

Let me give you an honest description of who I am and how I felt during the relationship I was in. I am the kind of guy who has quite a feminine energy. Since I was about 14, most of my friends have been females, I get along very easily with them. I'm not gay, but I do have a lot of female friends, due to the fact that I'm so open with people and have a tendency to talk to and comfort emotionally sensitive people (who are usually women, men will rarely admit to this). I've been playing high intensity sports all my life (still only 23), and would definitely say I have high testosterone levels. I love to have high energy fun, with no restrictions, and I love to be physically intimate, so long as the energy and the connection is there.

When I met my girlfriend, I became infatuated with her, and did the whole 'be together forever' thing. At the start, I had no desire for any other woman. I was completely in love, so no one else was needed. After about 10 months or so, I started feeling tempted with other women. Either girls from work, or just girls at clubs/bars were starting to look very attractive to me. I love all kinds of women, tall, short, thick, thin etc(does this make me a womanizer?) and the sex life between me and my partner was starting to feel a little boring/routine.

Anytime I would have thoughts of another woman, I would try DESPERATELY to change them, I wouldn't look at girls on the street, and do anything I could do to protect my mind from them, so as to keep my mind 'clean and pure' for my woman.

The problem was, this type of isolating behavior started to interfere with even the casual female friends I had. I was cutting myself off from the world in order to keep my relationship intact, which was quite extreme, but I loved her too much to let anything bad happen. In the end, the sexual restrictions I placed on myself were what was caused the restriction of sex between my partner and I. I was restricting my mind from enjoying the pleasures of even thinking of sex with another girl (which is something most guys do, most of the time), and because it made my partner so jealous, I wasn't even allowed to say that another woman was beautiful. So eventually, admiring a woman in any way, shape or form, was banned, and I no longer felt the urge to be with my partner.......It's like the sub-conscious mind could not differentiate sex with my partner from sex with a friend. I had taught myself that when something looks tasty, don't even think about it, or it will ruin you! I became very sexually suppressed, which was one of the major factors at the time for me developing depression.

The funny thing was, my love for her never changed, up until the very last day, I would have given my life for her without any hesitation, but the one thought that plagued my mind was: If only I could be more emotionally+sexually free and open, things would be so much better between us! Whether or not this thought would have proven to be true, I'm not sure, but I do think it could have helped. The breakup was definitely a HUGE blessing in disguise for me, but I'm more realistic now about the whole monogamy thing.

Cheating on a partner does not mean you do not love your partner, so I see no reason as to why two people should breakup because of it, and as explained in the video, it's actually more natural for us to be promiscuous biologically speaking. But the foundation for society today is set up on monogamy, so Polygamy is definitely not something that is easily understood or practiced, and not something I really totally feel comfortable with anyway, but the word 'monogamish' is PERFECT! I want monogamy, but if some sexual freedom for me (and her) on the side when the urge is there is what would keep sex between us alive, I see nothing wrong with it. The whole reason people get hurt is due to their idea of relationships, or their perception, the way they are taught what a relationship should be. If you can change the way you see it, maybe it wouldn't be such a problem to have your partner in an affair? Besides, I don't think many of us can claim monogamy is successful in any way other than economically.

Some people are cool working only one job, driving only one car, living in only one house, never leaving their country and having only ever experienced one spouse, I'm definitely not that kind of guy. It's not just about sex for me, it's the emotional intimacy, and the connection that I sometimes crave. Placing a ban on it all, being exclusive, it feels wrong, almost evil to me. I can't tell you how hard it is, to have a close female friend who is going through a tough time, needing emotional support, and considering myself lucky just to be able to tip toe around her, hoping my partner would not be jealous or hurt. The world needs more love, minus the contracts, boundaries and expectations.

Now to win the lottery and find me a nice woman who would be cool with something like this.

Pharoah,

Thank you so much for writing such an open and honest sharing of your viewpoint as a 23 year old male. Your story is almost the evolution of the deterioration of many marriages and that is addressed in the book. He talks about the physical and mental reasons why imposing the repression you under took in love after time for some males feels like a death sentence, and how, physically it often is.

And at 23, making that kind of committment, is often a failure. The number of marriages made very young surviving long term is very low and there are a lot of physical reasons for that--even for women. He reveals extensive studies about how the female makes mate choices based on smells. We now know that the female cannot smell correctly while using birth control pills. So the guy she chooses on birth control pills and then marries, stops the pills for a family, suddenly finds she detests him with no rational reason.

Sex, feelings about it, thinking about it -- all change over time. When I was young and first married, I totally believed in monogamy and rules and society and the catholic church and generally what I was told by authoritarian figures. At 67, I now know they were all wrong. I also know that they were taught wrong just as I was. If we are to evolve those of us who have been through the wringer finding our way have to reach out and give people like you not only permission to find a new way but give them everything we know about every subject so they have a bigger data base to think thru their minds.

Your way is right for you right now. It may change later and may change again. All of that is your right as a sovereign adult. No one has the right to claim sovereignity over your heart mind body and soul but you.

I have been monogamous, permiscuous, monogamous, celebrate, monogamous for years. All in different ways for different reasons at different phases of my life. I am on a cusp now but it is not an urgent issue for me now. I am in a strange space with sexuality unlike any other time in my life. It does not really fit any of those words. For now I am letting it be. If this thread really works well in the right way for the right reasons I may share more, less technically, we shall see.

I could not do this without nearing and we have written about this to each other. Today is her first day on a new job so there has to be a kind of shift feel to this for a while. I am not monopolizing her thread; we are working on this together. We are both very busy in our own lives and would like it to become everyone's thread. I think it may become the woman's salon at the end of the universe, the energy opposite of the pub at the end of the universe. I check it out, laugh some, and move on. It is not my space but it is a space that is needed, like Wade's, like ulli's. I find a need for this space and I hope it evolves freely and in peace.

Again my appreciation for the honesty of your sharing. There is a short video on you tube that says unconditional love is honesty. Thank you, Pharoah.

[aranuk]

My thanks to Kimberley for help in puting my avatar in place. Now there is a face to me. Ugly as it iz.

Stan

[write4change]

Posted by minkton (here)
I've always believed that monogomy wasnt natural for me, that I could commit and have fidelity to a person, and that commitment and fidelity was in no way broken by my having sexual connections with others.

I really dont believe this any longer. I think I was deluding myself in order to gratify my senses and have adventures and get to know people that I wanted to be with. And all the time I was diluting my attention for my partner and weakening the energy field between us and basically shortchanging myself, him, and anyone else I was involved with.

I'm fine that I did that, but I have decided never to behave that way again. And a new germ has arisen in me which sees monogamy as a sacred contract the alchemy and depth of which is unknowable and unfathomable without entering into the arrangement and living it wholeheartedly.

Dispersal of emotional and sexual attention has it's place, and so does focus. If we dont ever focus and become laser like in that focus, we will never know what we can achieve. I am speaking of a sexual relationship as a tantric spiritual vessel that needs to be sealed and subjected to heat for transformation to take place.

I see it as a very unfashionable pont of view.. the whole unity consciousness movement is about breaking down boundaries and monogamy seems to be restrictive. I just dont see that anymore. I see that true love can be fostered and grow to unknown proportions when the commitment is there, and that distractions of others will be as nothing when the level of commitment and engrossment is deep enough.

So I guess I dont care about what bonobos or other animals do, because my sexuality is as conscious as I canmake it, and always has been. Everything we do should be a choice. A conscious choice. We can witness hormone drives. They dont have to drive us.

So! I feel a bit ass - backwards in this thread, that I'm not lauding sexual freedom as the highest good. I'm a bit 'been there, done that'.. Now I seem to have evolved an ideal,I wasnt expecting to have this point of view, it has just evolved.. it just remains to be seen if I can attract a partner into my life with whom I can live this.

So I guess my point is,if we are on a growth path, our sexual choices reflect where we are at in our personal stages of development, and what we need for our next stage of growth. Anthropology doesnt and cant take into account tantra and alchemy and the connection between sex and spirit, so apology for being a bit tangental to topic..

Minkton, this is a lovely piece you wrote. And just as I think Pharoah is right. I also think you are right. When I read your words, I think you found a soul mate which for you has changed everything. And it does. My husband and I entered into a conscious open marriage but I think it was totally monogamous. ( For future reference, in case I go there, there could be an exception to this but neither my husband nor I considered it so.) I was my husband's third wife and one of the things I loved about him was his total committment to once family, always family. He remained in some ways friends and care giver to both his former wives and I had no objection. In the period of our commuter marriage, he frequently went to dinner with the second. I have never thought about what he might have done, but even now thinking about it -- I doubt he did. I, on the other hand, could have used that out because I was 23 years younger than he, and we spent one week together once a month for years, but I did not. Even though he agreed to it, I knew it would hurt him. Also we had a highly aware daughter and a very instinctive one, at a young age in a Texas envrionment -- it would have been too complex an explanation. It was just much simplier not to. Having had a hysterectomy and being 45, this was a much easier decision than a similar one at 26.

Love is always an evolution of different needs at different times. It is always making choices in the right way for the right reasons. I honor the choices you have made and understand them. Where we differ is that anthropology, or science, can and should make the connection between sex/and or spirit. That is the essence of our problem. Not allowing for what humans have always done as Ryan says in the interview Kimberly put up --- adapt. Thus, your contribution is most important and not tangental at all --- it is the story of your personal adaption.

Thank you for your honesty in sharing and giving me something heartfelt to respond heartfelt to.

[Kimberley]

Posted by aranuk (here)
My thanks to Kimbeley for help in puting my avatar in place. Now there is a face to me. Ugly as it iz.

Stan

My pleasure to help you Stan...I love the glow above your head and the glow of your smile! Much love!! (ugly is a lower vibrating word...)

[kathymarie]

To the OP: AMEN!!!!! Just one woman's opinion...

[9eagle9]

I percieve much of the problem to be instead of a relationship that is allowed to develop towards wherever its going to develop --monogamy, committment, ect--or open--is the honesty and expectations of thsoe going into a relationship right from the start. I can't describe how irritating it is for me to say "Well let's just see what developes ,"

And the person I'm relating this to promptly begins to badger me. Okay I've been as honest as I can be, either accept it or not. I can't determine in one week or two months where a relationship is going to go" but be plastered immediately with all sorts of expectations attempting to nail me down in the future, and its all geared not towards monogamy even but ownership. If one is hounding me to be committed in a year I have no idea what to tell them. How would I know, I barely know you.

I have to establish right away that your mine, and I claim ownership over you. instead of allowing something to develop on it's own. One thing that icannot be established for some reason that no one owns me, regardless if they are a lover, boyfriend or husband or family member. My daughter doesn't own me, I don't own her, that is not what I signed on for when I had her.

when are you going to move in with me. When are you going to give up your life and insert it into mine so I have a nice comfortable zone? When are you going to start changing everything about yourself so that I'm not threatened by the fact that you are not immediately gluing yourself to my hip.

considering I'm not done with my dinner on our first date I'm going to have to say that moving is not really crossing my mind at this point. And that you've basically establihed in the present that badgering is going to be part of my future and I can nip that in the bud right away. And the fact that you are badgering someone to make a decision based on YOUR expectations is probably going to end up in a sad wake up call.

Monogamy is one thing, a choice, start the ownership crap someone is going to get injured in some fashion. Injured by their own expecations based on what they think the details of monogamy is. So anxious to establish what is going to happen in six months, one year, or a five that the entire exploration of a future relationship is possible, as its conducted in the now is entirely overlooked.

that sends me a message that they are entirely impatient with me , as a person, in the present and can't wait to get down to the business of changing me more towards what they feel comfortable with. What if I don't want some of the conditions that typically go with monogramy like a shared residence? What if I can't determine that in two months or five years then what? the relationship isn't worth it?
Or do you even know because you have this ideal rattling around your head that you are anxious to mold me into that you're not even seeing me or listening to me.

Do we understand that "Let's see how it goes' doesn't mean NO....or YEs. It means what it means.


I can't know a person in a week, or three or two months enough to make any sort of decision towards any sort of commitment that is expected to last a lifetime. What if it doesn't last a lifetime, relationships tend to be progressive, they run their course. I keep that in mind that what might be fun in week two has prettty much exhausted itself by month three so why not see what happens without building up all these expecatations. Espeically if I'm being badgered to always live outside the present moment .

Ito be honest regardless if monogamy is natural to us or not I tend to be that way even when not in a established relationship , (another way of saying celibate). I do know I could not juggle several relationships at the same time, they would drive me nuts. I would sincerly lose my ****ing mind. I do know that I cannot have several relationship in row because I'm so drained by the expectations of the first one I couldn't muster the energy to seek another and probably accounts for my reluctance to establish ANY sort of relationship right now.

One person drives me nuts, I'm not sure what I'd do with multiples. Kill them I guess.. If someone is unhappy with their life I'm not sure how dragging me into that mix is going to make it happier, it would just make me miserable. Someone who is content in the present is much more enjoyable thans someone who is not and always expecting 'something' to happen instead of just letting it happen.

Can you love someone without determining you're going to be glued at the hip forever????? Commitment isn't just about how long you can stick out with someone, I'm commited to other things in my life I'm not really ready to give up. Those things may interfer with someone's idea of 'committed', I'm commited elsewhere , not neccessarily in a relationship pr another person but in relation to something. what is the time I spend writing is an impediment to someone's expecation? Or the amount of time I'm commited to working with my horses. Or the amount of time I spend daily, weekly in my space, in my solitude that establishes me as a pleasant person to associate with, what if that intefers with these 'ownership issues' or otherwise makes someone uncomfortable. Or my annoyance at being badgered? What then, I should just fling up these commitments and what am I being offered in returned?

What if there is person who could complement commitments because they are similar to one's own, or they are similarly commited to their lives and understand I'm a person, who is worth something regardless that she is cautious to commit because after all its only the rest of my life you are expecting from me and I'm sorry to say , perhaps you're not offering, enough to fill in the blanks of the next forty years or so. Or that I'm not a baby sitter or a surrogate mother. Sex is not all about life, for people who make sex 'everything' they must have a ****ty existence espeically if they have a lack of partners. What if people treat sex as if it's some tacit message of commitment? What if love could exist without sex at all or sex wasn't an issue in establishing a commitment. Is it possible that you could love someone but understand that a commitment and co habitation isn't really ideal? these are things I attempt to establish from the get go and they go in one ear and out the other , as they busily translated everything I'm saying into what they want to hear. Or if they do hear suggest somethign is wrong with my ability to commit? To what? A person I barely know!!!???

Expecations. how many times am I approached by very good looking men who have nothing elss about them and they expect I should be straining at the leash to get to them. Why? Looks are not ultimate importance to a person who puts things in perspective as they do sex.. If I wanted sex to be my whole life I'd be a prostitute!!

Or physically unappealing men who have dull, vapid personalities and are essentially illiterate but somehow think I should just love them on sight beause.......because.....because.....why? Their nice.

Oh gee, well I'm not nice so I'm thinking perhaps this expecation is going to go south soon. It's my life and I'm not supposed to have any say in the matter because someone has developed an expectation?

Or people who don't 'get it' when I say I can't co habitate with you because I'd drive you nuts, I'm not a housekeeper, I don't care about the curtains, I pick and choose what I care about on the domestic front . They don't care, because....they have it in their head somethign is going to change. Get the wand out.

I've had men ask me out , no strings attached, no expecation of sex just hang out out you know. And then spent the evenign with them as they pursued other women. Okay my expectation is no strings attached evening of companionship not to play chaperon as one pursues girlfriends. Is this unreasonable of me. They sure thought it was. So I would leave the date earlier and they'd be pissed, and I'm thinking , DUDE if you want to pick up women do you know how severly my presence is impeding you? Granted there are women who like the idea of stealign someones date but most women find it weird to be hit on when the guy has a date present. Do you understand what I'm attempting to convey here?

Weirdness either way open or closed.

[Kimberley]

I thank all that are sharing from their heart here on this thread! IMHO this is a topic of the utmost importance. Love is the highest vibrating energy and all of our co-creation is up to us.

Sex is not always connected to love...although I am pretty sure that love has been connected to sex for most of us.

W4C I am so moved by what you have shared with us...especial your vet experience...is there some place on the web that could tell me more about the services you were involved in? I am gratefully amazed about knowing of these services.!

W4C in one of your posts you used the word "promiscuous"

1. characterized by or involving indiscriminate mingling or association, especially having sexual relations with a number of partners on a casual basis.
2. consisting of parts, elements, or individuals of different kinds brought together without order.
3. indiscriminate; without discrimination.
4. casual; irregular; haphazard.

There is a judgmental vibration to that word. I ascribe to not be judgmental with me or anything (to the best of my ability).

I am adding to this discussion that part of the equation is about judgment...self judgment and judgment of others.

As I have already noted. I have had many intimate relationships and I have stated that I am sovereign and free to love all and chose in whatever way shape or form I chose to love someone. I love my daughters, I love the father of my daughters, I love my many internet friends, and I love many "in my physical space" friends, in various ways shapes and forms.

I am pro choice for EVERYTHING!!! What works for you may not be "right" for me and vis versa. I also want to add that I to the best of my ability have eliminated the word should from my vocabulary. There are no should's(and we need to remember who/where did the should come from?. There is I want to and I do not want to. No should's.

What I am trying to say is follow your heart..do what serves you...know love is what it is all about...And please judge not others or yourself!

Yet again I add this profound quote from Annalee Skarin (about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annalee_Skarin)

And now my beloved I will give again the sacred keys on which the forgiveness of your sin is based. Forgive and you shall be forgiven. Those who can not forgive can not be forgiven. The very core of being forgiven is contained in the ability to forgive. Those who carry their grudges and hates and spirit of retaliation with them are carrying a burden of such deep darkness. They become acutely clothed in the darkness of their own dislikes. And so I speak gently these words for all have sinned. Your own great release will come when you can forgive. If you can not forgive you are carrying upon your shoulders your neighbors, your brothers failures and transgressions and you are also carrying the burden of your own sins, weaknesses, innumerable errors, and mistakes . When I commanded you to judge not lest you be judged, I was revealing the great eternal law by which you would escape the great judgment.

SO please DO DO what feels right for you!!! And remember that there really is NO right or wrong and all is in perfect order...

As of NOW for those of us that KNOW we are creators of our reality, we get to chose in each moment and create in each moment our NOW. And by creating our NOW we create the next NOW!!!

Thank you one and all for the rolls you have agreed to play in this game!! Thank you for being who you are! Thank you for remembering to Judge not !!!

Much love to us all..always and in all ways!!

[161803398]

I wasn't talking about "conditions". I was talking about bonds. I'm not sure what you are saying. There are bonds between people which, when broken, can cause trauma to the person. I don't believe I am saying anything extraordinary in this.

[9eagle9]

Actually I'm sharing from a state of annoyance but I tried to make it heartfelt annoyance.

Posted by Kimberley (here)
I thank all that are sharing from their heart here on this thread! IMHO this is a topic of the utmost importance. Love is the highest vibrating energy and all of our co-creation is up to us.

Sex is not always connected to love...although I am pretty sure that love has been connected to sex for most of us.

W4C I am so moved by what you have shared with us...especial your vet experience...is there some place on the web that could tell me more about the services you were involved in? I am gratefully amazed about knowing of these services.!

W4C in one of your posts you used the word "promiscuous"

1. characterized by or involving indiscriminate mingling or association, especially having sexual relations with a number of partners on a casual basis.
2. consisting of parts, elements, or individuals of different kinds brought together without order.
3. indiscriminate; without discrimination.
4. casual; irregular; haphazard.

There is a judgmental vibration to that word. I ascribe to not be judgmental with me or anything (to the best of my ability).

I am adding to this discussion that part of the equation is about judgment...self judgment and judgment of others.

As I have already noted. I have had many intimate relationships and I have stated that I am sovereign and free to love all and chose in whatever way shape or form I chose to love someone. I love my daughters, I love the father of my daughters, I love my many internet friends, and I love many "in my physical space" friends, in various ways shapes and forms.

I am pro choice for EVERYTHING!!! What works for you may not be "right" for me and vis versa. I also want to add that I to the best of my ability have eliminated the word should from my vocabulary. There are no should's(and we need to remember who/where did the should come from?. There is I want to and I do not want to. No should's.

What I am trying to say is follow your heart..do what serves you...know love is what it is all about...And please judge not others or yourself!

Yet again I add this profound quote from Annalee Skarin (about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annalee_Skarin)

And now my beloved I will give again the sacred keys on which the forgiveness of your sin is based. Forgive and you shall be forgiven. Those who can not forgive can not be forgiven. The very core of being forgiven is contained in the ability to forgive. Those who carry their grudges and hates and spirit of retaliation with them are carrying a burden of such deep darkness. They become acutely clothed in the darkness of their own dislikes. And so I speak gently these words for all have sinned. Your own great release will come when you can forgive. If you can not forgive you are carrying upon your shoulders your neighbors, your brothers failures and transgressions and you are also carrying the burden of your own sins, weaknesses, innumerable errors, and mistakes . When I commanded you to judge not lest you be judged, I was revealing the great eternal law by which you would escape the great judgment.

SO please DO DO what feels right for you!!! And remember that there really is NO right or wrong and all is in perfect order...

As of NOW for those of us that KNOW we are creators of our reality, we get to chose in each moment and create in each moment our NOW. And by creating our NOW we create the next NOW!!!

Thank you one and all for the rolls you have agreed to play in this game!! Thank you for being who you are! Thank you for remembering to Judge not !!!

Much love to us all..always and in all ways!!

[songsfortheotherkind]

[QUOTE=write4change;451841]

Posted by minkton (here)
Where we differ is that anthropology, or science, can and should make the connection between sex/and or spirit. That is the essence of our problem. Not allowing for what humans have always done as Ryan says in the interview Kimberly put up --- adapt. Thus, your contribution is most important and not tangental at all --- it is the story of your personal adaption.

This is where I see the new languages emerging, ones that do not delineate or separate the elements in the way that modern science has forged; ancient sciences, such as acupuncture, were able to hold all the elements in play simultaneously, creating a foundation of perspective and experience that embraced rather than exiled. I see this as one of those embracing processes, learning to craft a language in which the many experiences of singularity can be held simultaneously in the space. It is science and Art, co-creation without load, agenda or judgement, different angles of perception and experience of the same hologram- currently our language is insufficient to describe the complexity and richness of the evolution of Being we're being invited to undergo. Communication and exploration of the new territories are the means by which the new languages are discovered, created.

I personally find it beautiful.

[9eagle9]

Some bonds are not bonds they are attachments composed of pre-existing conditions. They are not true bonds of love but of neediness or co-dependency, low form emotions that are often confused by love . Until one does some very deep clearing one doesn't know how to tell the difference. If a person is looking for another to validate them that is a low form attachment. An attachment based on insecurity and lack of self love, not extending one's love of self out to others, which may or may not result in sex depending. The bonds that cause trauma tend to be unhealthy low form bonds. Suddenly you don't have a person there to validate your existence or self idenity and not having one of your own you are lost, traumatized. Many MANY people go into relationships to establish an identity for themselves .

Healthier relationships can end without trauma when both parites have healthy bonds, the bond doesn't end after the relationship ends, it simply takes on a different nature. You would see that in partners that still remain close, as W4C described earlier up thread, even after their established commited relationship ended, it evolved into something else. That shows the relationshihp was based in a healthy bond, not a unhealthy attachment.

Posted by 161803398 (here)
I wasn't talking about "conditions". I was talking about bonds. I'm not sure what you are saying. There are bonds between people which, when broken, can cause trauma to the person. I don't believe I am saying anything extraordinary in this.

[Kimberley]

I also want to add... how often in relationship have you heard "you hurt me"? Well I am here to remind us that yes you can punch someone in the nose and hurt them physically, however when some one calls you an a** hole you can chose to feel hurt or to not feel hurt. If you know you are not an a** hole you can laugh it off and realize that the person calling you an a** hole has something going on with them. In other words you have the choice to not take it personally.

One of the books I recommend over and over is "The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Riuz.

The Four Agreements can be summed up as follows:

(1) Be Impeccable With Your Word. The broad scope of this concept is to avoid sin against yourself by what you think. Sinning against the self takes many forms: such as, putting yourself down, gossiping, or putting anybody else down because you don't agree with what they think. Actions and words need to be consistent as part of being impeccable with yourself. The other side of the coin is the smoky mirror concept. Ruiz makes the point that our perceptions of others are merely reflections of ourselves. Therefore, to put another down or project negative words or energy towards another person, is to lash out at the other person because of our own insecurities.

(2) Don't Take Anything Personally. There is an awful lot of negative energy out there and some of it is directed at us by other people. If you take it personally and take on the poison of another's words, it becomes a very negative agreement you have with yourself. What anybody thinks about you, or says about you, is really about them. Not taking it personally allows you to be in relationship with anyone and not get trapped in their stuff. This agreement can also pertain to things that we take personally that cause us to go into upset.

(3) Don't Make Assumptions. What we think we understand about what someone says, how someone looks at us, what someone means by what they do, etc, may often not reflect reality at all, and more often than not lead us to think badly of ourselves or of others, and reinforce not being impeccable with our word.

(4) Always Do Your Best. Your "best" is a variable thing from moment to moment. "When you do your best, you don't give the Judge the opportunity to find you guilty or to blame you.” You can always say, “I did my best." There are no regrets. (p.80) The other key to doing your best revolves about being in action. "Action is about living fully. Inaction is the way that we deny life. Inaction is sitting in front of the television every day for years because you are afraid to be alive and to take the risk of expressing what you are. Expressing what you are is taking action. You can have many great ideas in your head, but what makes the difference is the action. Without action upon an idea, there will be no manifestation, no results, and no reward." (p.8

And there is a fifth agreement:

In a nutshell, The Fifth Agreement is what don Miguel would often tell us, "Don't believe me, don't believe others, don't believe yourself.

Love and dream well!!
Much love

[write4change]

I would like some one to put up the You Tube Video of 4:53 Change is the Prelude to Growth, Those who are reading this thread and really want to stay that way could contribute by technically assisting me in things I cannot do. Then this does not become a trust issue for me. Who can I ask to do this and why etc.

I have done some seriusly mulling since my last post. Sunday I made a decision to not do something that had big potential to make me famous or infamous and I decided that it would be no help in getting the real work done. Today I got so engrossed in all this, I forgot to move my car and got a $68 parking ticket. All things like this I ask is the universe opening to me or shutting windows on me.

This is the subject of my life and heart. In a way this is a gift as it allows me feedback that I would get no other way. Ryan's partner will not go on publicity tours because of her Indian background and the fact she still want to practice anonymously. There are many reasons for them to live in Barcelona, Spain. They could not do this work in the climate of the US right now. If I publish it will be in England. Ryan is going to science and saying we need to adapt. I am into learning to love thru many lifetimes and how I came to the sacred of it.

I used to talk to eagle and I have a great need and desire to do so but I am self disciplining myself to denying that because I have not completed my word to her. It bothers me but it is the way it is. I have written her here rather than a pm because pulling my cover shows how much I care about this issue. The problems I am dealing with are so complex they need to play out and little more and writing her about the details is more difficult then doing this. There will come a time I can do both.

Kimberly, I have never considered myself promiscuous , but as songsforanotherkind states words can be difficult. I did not use the word prostitute which some people had no trouble using. This whole issue was played out in Boston Legal with a sexual surrogate that had an on going role for some time. That is one group of DVDs I have to have eventually. I love Shatner and Spade getting married at the end in the right way for the right reasons---I believe the show strongly indicated it had nothing to do with sex but sex was always the topic of interest. One of the points of the book, humans spend more time and money on sex than just about anything else and your biggest corporations all have a piece of the sex industry. It is the one industry of America that we use and promote but never admit having.

Thus, I have learned to accept labels from people rather than argue or parse them. As Clinton said it depends on what is means. LOL Like ulli, I have the ability to monitor this thread. I don't claim it but we have lots of camping places on Avalon now--a place for everyone and space to create more camps. People should move around the various camp fires and enjoy them. If one camp is not for you, you still don't have the right to put out their fire. We are not going to argue here or nit pick. We are going to share and explore. And we are going to do it with grace, charm, and humor. Even the powers that be will have to conform to being good here because I am at the place in my life to be able to stand my ground on these issues.

[nearing]

Here you go.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tvLyJqywAQ4

I am so glad this thread has continued ahead without me. Today was my first day of work and A little stressful, need to leave early agin tonight - have to get my sleep.

This discussion is so important especially given the political climate and anti-woman legislation across the country.

Thom Harmann was a great addition!

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by write4change (here)
we have lots of camping places on Avalon now--a place for everyone and space to create more camps. People should move around the various camp fires and enjoy them. If one camp is not for you, you still don't have the right to put out their fire. We are not going to argue here or nit pick. We are going to share and explore. And we are going to do it with grace, charm, and humor. Even the powers that be will have to conform to being good here because I am at the place in my life to be able to stand my ground on these issues.

I love campfires! *breaks out the vegan marshmallows, decorates a stick with about 20 of them and looks over the fire, grinning* anybody else want one?

I cannot reply to the other elements of your post, as I am not privy to the challenges you're currently facing: if I may I would like to offer that it has been my experience that I am abundantly supplied with whatever it's going to take to get any job done, even if I can't in the moment remember in which of my ten thousand pockets I left that particular skill or quality in. I eventually discover what I'm looking for and things sail on gloriously until I need something in another pocket- which I may or may not remember the location of...