Animal Slaughter: A Time For Change

[modwiz]

Posted by blufire (here)
I really do apologize . . . .but I swear no matter how I look at this issue I can’t resolve a foundation to build from, if I come from the vegetarian/ vegan point of view.

Understand I do NOT support factory farming of ANY kind . . . animal or plant.

Most of my life I have raised and preserved almost all my food . . . meat, fruit and vegetables.

Perhaps because I have raised, harvested and thankfully consumed all these different forms of sentient beings I do not see the difference between eating sentient meat OR sentient plants.

The fact horrendous animal factory farming exists is no more my personal karmic responsibility than the horrendous gmo factory farming of plants.

Because I was born and raised in the south, I have a very defined deep southern accent and there have been many times I have been accused of being racists and also it has been inferred because of my southern heritage that slavery is somehow my fault and/or that I somehow support it. So only because I grew up in the south and have a distinct southern accent I also have inherited the negative karma of the southern slave owners??? I see no difference as a meat eater. How am I karmically responsible for the tragic existence animal farms simple because I responsibly and humanely raise and eat meat?

If I adopt the ideology that I should not eat meat solely because of factory farming and slaughter then logically I would have to apply the same to factory genetically mutation and farming of plants.

I would not live long in my way of thinking because then I would have nothing to eat in the fear of karmic responsibility.

I respect and have compassion and understanding and humbleness for all the life forces that sustain my life. I am a sentient human being, all animals are sentient and all plant life is sentient. Every LIVING thing is made up of the same DNA, amino acids and proteins (building blocks of ALL life) . . . they are simply arranged differently

So could someone logically and unemotionally explain the difference to me?

If I may, just the Southern, slave owning aspect of this. It is my very recent understanding that the South has been villainized by the usual suspects who own publishing houses and get to write enough of history so as to effect its trajectory and perception. The slave owners of the South were the one percent of their time, the equivalent of our CEO's and other parasites. The Civil War was another divide and conquer tactic by the unseen forces of international banking and control. Once the common man gets control of history again we will be able to heal ourselves and turn whatever anger remains at those who created the rifts. Hopefully, we will have grown past revenge and the parasites just die out from honest work or the fact that they have no purpose.

Both Africans and Native Americans have done much of the soul work to leave the wrongs in the past. They have not forgotten, but have largely forgiven. There is only disease in revenge. Species hygiene is another topic.

[RMorgan]

Hi my friend,

Well, I guess it´s easier than you think. I don´t think any videos or books are essential.

Is your diet already balanced? If it is, just take out the meat. It´s as simple as that.

Anyway, there´s a nice recent documentary called Forks over Knives, which shows several medical cases where serious diseases were easily cured by changing to a vegetarian diet. I think you´ll like it. It´s very well produced.

Cheers,

Raf.

Posted by STATIC (here)
Do any of you suggest any particular resources websites, books, video's for someone starting out on this path.
Much appreciated.

[modwiz]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Hey Folks!

Thanks for this thread, my dear feathered friend!

Well, I´ve been a vegetarian (still eat organic milk and eggs) for 10 years now and I´m pretty happy with it.

I have spent a huge amount of time thinking about all possible philosophical, social and political questions regarding vegetarianism and I came to the conclusion that there isn´t absolutely any logical, coherent reason for people to eat meat.

For those willing to become vegetarians as well, check out a small list of very important characters who chose this diet. These folks were really way ahead of their time:

Pythagoras
580 – 500 BC
Greek mathematician and philosopher

Plato
428 – 347 BC
Greek philosopher

Plutarch
46 – 120 BC
Greek philosopher and biographer

St. Frances of Assisi
1182 – 1226
Italian founder of Franciscan order of friars

Leonardo da Vinci
1452 – 1519
Italian painter, architect and engineer
"One day the world will look upon research upon animals as it now looks upon research on human beings."

Martin Luther
1483 – 1546
German church reformer; founder of Protestantism

Sir Isaac Newton
1642 – 1727
English physicist and mathematician

Voltaire
1694 – 1778
French writer

John Wesley
1703 – 1791
English founder of Methodism

Benjamin Franklin
1706 – 1790
US scientist and diplomat; inventor of the lightning conductor

Ralph Waldo Emerson
1803 – 1882
US philosopher, essayist and poet

Hans Christian Andersen
1805 – 1875
Danish writer of fairy tales

Charlotte Bronte
1816 – 1855
English writer; author of Jane Eyre

Henry David Thoreau
1817 – 1862
US writer; back-to-nature exponent

Susan B. Anthony
1820 – 1906
US feminist and anti-slavery campaigner

Leo Tolstoy
1828 – 1910
Russian novelist; author of War and Peace
"A human can be healthy without killing animals for food. Therefore if he eats meat he participates in taking animal life merely for the sake of his appetite."

Vincent Van Gogh
1853 – 1890
Dutch Post-Impressionist painter

George Bernard Shaw
1856 - 1950
Irish dramatist, novelist and socialist
"It is nearly fifty years since I was assured by a conclave of doctors that if I did not eat meat I should die of starvation." (He lived a healthy life and died aged 94.)

Henry Ford
1863 – 1947
US car manufacturer

Mahatma Gandhi
1869 – 1948
Indian nationalist leader and advocate of non-violence

Albert Schweitzer
1875 – 1965
French theologian, missionary and Nobel Peace Prize winner

Albert Einstein
1879 – 1955
Swiss-German scientist; author of the theories of relativity
"Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."

H.G. Wells
1886 – 1946
English science fiction writer

Tony Benn
1925 -
British socialist politician

By the way, I have a question for the long term vegetarians around here. Do you take any vitamin supplements?

My latest blood testes have very good results, but I´ve been reading about the huge importance of supplementing Omega 3 (from linseed or linseed oil), specially for vegetarians. What do you think?

Also, do you take any B12 supplements?

Cheers,

Raf.

Ps: Your diet is a personal choice. You´re not better or worse than nobody, by eating meat or not. Respect everyone for their choices if you want people to respect you for yours.

D3 during the Winter only and only when I remember. B complex for my joints when they get beat up. I do not take B12 and do my best to not wash fruits or veggies because of all of the B12 producing bacteria that live there. Growing your own stuff is best because you never spray anything on them. If bugs are eating them it is a sign of inferior or ill plants. Our Mother does not like imperfect DNA reproducing and sends the insects to clean up the junk DNA. I have an Iron supplement that I take only if I am noticing the loginess that comes for Iron levels dropping to low. The lack of sufficient Oxygen has a very distinct feel to it once you've tuned in. Eating spinach and beets, (juicing with carrots is an excellent way to get sufficient amounts), will usually supply all of the iron you will need. Iron is in many foods but those two are loaded.

I only supplement based on feedback from my body. Flaxseed oil, the refrigerated one, is great for the right Omega balances. Adding the seeds to whatever works is a brilliant way to do it. A well balanced, organic diet is usually all that is needed, IMO. Supplements are more marketing than required nutrition. Organic cannot be stressed enough if you want proper nutrition. Government agencies getting involved on the organic markets becasue of the prices people in the know are will to pay for their health, have been a bad influence. Arresting huge swathes of these parasites and criminals will help get organic back to where it belongs.

Just my 22 years of experience and uber health speaking here. Some still get stuck thinking veggie is somehow deficient and need to make up with all kinds of other things. They are entitled to their opinions. The makers of supplements will be glad for their business.

[modwiz]

Posted by STATIC (here)
Do any of you suggest any particular resources websites, books, video's for someone starting out on this path.
Much appreciated.

Remember, no dutiful or penance eating. If you do not absolutely adore and thrive on your diet do not follow it. Blufire is correct to follow her guidance. I cannot explain the mechanics of it, but the details are not required. Eating has a lot of levels associated with it and they are all personal.

[13th Warrior]

Posted by STATIC (here)
Do any of you suggest any particular resources websites, books, video's for someone starting out on this path.
Much appreciated.

I like David Wolf for super foods.

Mark Bittman's book "How To Cook Everything Vegetarian"

Buy Local

Use color as your nutrition guide; eat as many colors as you can.

Limit your soy intake

Eat plants/nuts/seeds with a lot of fat:
Avocados
Coconut
Flax
Chia
Quality Olive Oil
Walnuts

Herbs, herbs, herbs...did i mention herbs? Herbs in everything; grow-em in your window.

[blufire]

Do not agonize over your food Blufire. Eat in peace and privacy. Humanely raised animals most times extend grace which absolves all karma. At the highest level of existence killing is for more painful than dying and compassion extends to those who feel the need to do so.
We have a planet and culture to repair. Police of any kind are unnecessary in an functional society. That includes food police.

modwiz . . . .reading through this thread and others like it I am most definitely not the one agonizing over what I am eating or the condition of my lifestyle. Nor in anyway am I the one policing or judging the food the population as a whole is consuming.

My latest blood testes have very good results, but I´ve been reading about the huge importance of supplementing Omega 3 (from linseed or linseed oil), specially for vegetarians. What do you think?

Also, do you take any B12 supplements?

As a vegan or vegetarian, if it is essential that you use any form of supplementation then your diet is not holistic, natural or in anyway complete.

[modwiz]

Posted by blufire (here)

Do not agonize over your food Blufire. Eat in peace and privacy. Humanely raised animals most times extend grace which absolves all karma. At the highest level of existence killing is for more painful than dying and compassion extends to those who feel the need to do so.
We have a planet and culture to repair. Police of any kind are unnecessary in an functional society. That includes food police.

modwiz . . . .reading through this thread and others like it I am most definitely not the one agonizing over what I am eating or the condition of my lifestyle. Nor in anyway am I the one policing or judging the food the population as a whole is consuming.

My latest blood testes have very good results, but I´ve been reading about the huge importance of supplementing Omega 3 (from linseed or linseed oil), specially for vegetarians. What do you think?

Also, do you take any B12 supplements?

As a vegan or vegetarian, if it is essential that you use any form of supplementation then your diet is not holistic, natural or in anyway complete.

I retract. It might be best to not address you at all. I will avoid interacting with you. My words were an attempt at understanding and kindness. I won't even try to figure out how you took it. I would appreciate us not replying to each others' posts. I see no fruit from the interactions. Lemons maybe.

I've edited my post and removed the offensive material.

[STATIC]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Hi my friend,

Well, I guess it´s easier than you think. I don´t think any videos or books are essential.

Is your diet already balanced? If it is, just take out the meat. It´s as simple as that.

Anyway, there´s a nice recent documentary called Forks over Knives, which shows several medical cases where serious diseases were easily cured by changing to a vegetarian diet. I think you´ll like it. It´s very well produced.

Cheers,

Raf.

Posted by STATIC (here)
Do any of you suggest any particular resources websites, books, video's for someone starting out on this path.
Much appreciated.

I would say pretty well balanced, but quite a bit of room for improvement.
I grow quite a bit of veg during the growing season and I'm a pretty good cook so I don't do much eating out.
I've watched the vid you mentioned twice... very good.

It's just that I know it will be hard to make the change I want with my current environment.
I hang around a lot of what you could call "hard core carnivores" (michigan and my family are like this)
It's kind of like trying to quit smoking in the middle of a circle of smokers. No biggie though I have the willpower.
I just want to learn more about having a complete diet without meat, so I'l at least get a few books to further my understanding and also be able to fend off the why the hell do you not eat meat conversation

[RMorgan]

Posted by STATIC (here)

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Hi my friend,

Well, I guess it´s easier than you think. I don´t think any videos or books are essential.

Is your diet already balanced? If it is, just take out the meat. It´s as simple as that.

Anyway, there´s a nice recent documentary called Forks over Knives, which shows several medical cases where serious diseases were easily cured by changing to a vegetarian diet. I think you´ll like it. It´s very well produced.

Cheers,

Raf.

Posted by STATIC (here)
Do any of you suggest any particular resources websites, books, video's for someone starting out on this path.
Much appreciated.

I would say pretty well balanced, but quite a bit of room for improvement.
I grow quite a bit of veg during the growing season and I'm a pretty good cook so I don't do much eating out.
I've watched the vid you mentioned twice... very good.

It's just that I know it will be hard to make the change I want with my current environment.
I hang around a lot of what you could call "hard core carnivores" (michigan and my family are like this)
It's kind of like trying to quit smoking in the middle of a circle of smokers. No biggie though I have the willpower.
I just want to learn more about having a complete diet without meat, so I'l at least get a few books to further my understanding and also be able to fend off the why the hell do you not eat meat conversation

Hi mate,

Almost all my friends are not vegetarians. They used to make fun of me when I became a vegetarian, but they get used to it after only a couple of months.

As for people asking questions, with time, you´ll have pretty logical answers for all of them.

When people ask me questions about it and I perceive they are asking because they are just curious and honestly wanting to learn more about vegetarianism, I´m very pleased to answer those questions very patiently and minutely.

However, some meat eaters really like to attack vegetarians sometimes. In this case, I just give short answers like "I´m vegetarian because I´ve chosen to be" , "I don´t like meat" , "I´m allergic to animal proteins" and even " I don´t want to talk about it" and quickly change subjects.

There´s nothing more boring than engaging a "vegetarian versus meat eater" debate. Unless you perceive a honest interest to learn from the other person, just give a short answer and change subject.

Your friends are your friends. They are supposed to accept you the way you are.

Anyway, here are some links for some good reasons for becoming a vegetarian:

http://www.britishmeat.com/49.htm

http://www.giveusahome.co.uk/articles/vegetarianism.htm

http://www.flex.com/~jai/articles/101.html (this one is very detailed and coherent)

Cheers,

Raf.

[STATIC]

Muahahaha.... there will be deafening silence from the opposition when I brake out the 101 reasons article

[RMorgan]

Hahaha! Just print it, plasticize it and take it in your wallet wherever you go!

Read it whenever you need and then, to conclude, ask them to now tell you one reason to eat meat besides taste!

Cheers,

Raf.

Posted by STATIC (here)
Muahahaha.... there will be deafening silence from the opposition when I brake out the 101 reasons article

[blufire]

Please help me to understand if the diet you choose requires some or any form of supplementation . . . especially supplementation you cannot grow within the area you live . . .how then can your diet be holistic, natural or complete?

[RMorgan]

Posted by blufire (here)
Please help me to understand if the diet you choose requires some or any form of supplementation . . . especially supplementation you cannot grow within the area you live . . .how then can your diet be holistic, natural or complete?

Hi blufire,

Well, I don´t take any supplements and as far as my blood tests can tell, I´m pretty healthy.

I can´t even remember the last time I got sick.

I´m not sure if it´s related, but I used to get sick very often before becoming a vegetarian.

Anyways....It´s so personal. Different persons may have different results with the same diet. There´s a lot of variables involved.

Cheers,

Raf.

[blufire]

This is good that your diet is working for you. But as a whole or is it more common that people who choose a vegetarian and especially vegan diet require supplementation?

If you or anyone else answers yes to this question then could one come to a logical conclusion that a vegan and/or vegetarian diet may not be holistic for everyone?

[RMorgan]

Posted by blufire (here)
This is good that your diet is working for you. But as a whole or is it more common that people who choose a vegetarian and especially vegan diet require supplementation?

If you or anyone else answers yes to this question then could one come to a logical conclusion that a vegan and/or vegetarian diet may not be holistic for everyone?

Well, I´ve read many times that about 40% of vegetarians are deficient in B12 vitamin. However, about 30% of meat eaters are B12 deficient as well.

There´s a growing number of persons that just can´t absorb B12. However, I don´t know why. Might be related to junk food and other soft poisons.

So, I don´t think that a vegetarian diet is restricted to a certain group of people or blood type. I think that everyone, vegetarian or not, should be careful with their food choices and suppliers and have a balanced diet.

Probably everyone in the world have some kind of nutrient deficiency.

Also, because of the excessive use of sunscreen, most people are having vitamin D deficiency these days.

In my opinion, the key to have a good health is eating organics and avoiding junk food and drinks.

Personally, I didn´t become a vegetarian for health related issues. It was much more because of social-economic-ecologic reasons.

Cheers,

Raf.

[STATIC]

Posted by blufire (here)
Please help me to understand if the diet you choose requires some or any form of supplementation . . . especially supplementation you cannot grow within the area you live . . .how then can your diet be holistic, natural or complete?

I found these 2 articles to be enlightening in response to you question.
For me It doesn't really matter because I do not intend to be strictly vegan. I just want to be healthy and fully responsible for the food that I ingest without killing animals and continuing the cycle of destruction.
Even if I were to go completely Vegan and had to take a B12 supplement to have a "complete" diet it wouldn't chap my ass to do so (we collectively do so many unnatural things anyway)
I like this part from the first article....

You really don't need the naturalness claim to be a veg*n! That is, moral/spiritual reasons alone are adequate to justify following a veg*n diet (assuming the diet works for you, of course). Further, if the motivation for your diet is moral and/or spiritual, then you will want the basis of your diet to be honest as well as compassionate. In that case, ditching the false myths of naturalness presents no problems; indeed, ditching false myths means that you are ditching a burden

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/natural
http://www.livestrong.com/article/25...f-vitamin-b12/

[DeBron]

Posted by dan i el (here)

Posted by DeBron (here)
On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter. .

Cerebral cortex and Limbic system...

Please clarify your statement. I honestly don't know. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

[dan i el]

Posted by STATIC (here)
Do any of you suggest any particular resources websites, books, video's for someone starting out on this path.
Much appreciated.

imagine there was no internet and you didn't want to participate in a magic mass ritual slaughter of sentient creatures..then take it from there...sweet potatoes and cold pressed olive oil are quite good nutrition wise if that is your concern...but they won't make you live forever..

[dan i el]

To no-one in particular,

So many incipient defenders of factory farming on this thread.."yeah, but plants are animals too" " yeah, i get it but then you are a cannibal if your momma breast fed you", "yeah but yeah but this that and the other".

It's REALLY SIMPLE - you are not top of the food chain - no wonder we are in this stew energetically when most folk are walking around in the delusion that they are little mini capstones and the "EArth" is their BBQ

Like some participants in this thread have attempted to say again and again (and kudos to them) - the thread is about factory farming realities and factory farming realities only - where is the argument actually? It occurs to me that it is an obvious fact that factory farming is extremely powerful bad magic .. needing to state a case why one's own individual consumption of fellow mammals is holistic and "okay" is irrelevant to the subject at hand. >So hopefully, them that is feeling the need to do that can presently cease and desist now?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by DeBron (here)

Posted by dan i el (here)

Posted by DeBron (here)
On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter. .

Cerebral cortex and Limbic system...

Please clarify your statement. I honestly don't know. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

What wasn't clear for you in my statement?

[WhiteFeather]

Again This thread also has reverence in raising our spiritual growth as well, IMO and others that i have been researching, it seems by consuming The DNA Flesh of animals, hinders our spiritual growth, if you will. Like i said in a previous post, Alex Collier states that The Andromedans from The Pleaides Star System consume only fruit and are considered fruitatarians only. I believe there is a clue as to why they indulge in fruit only. And i think its a spiritual advancement that benefits there highly evolved race. Hope this makes sense to some.