Animal Slaughter: A Time For Change

[dan i el]

Posted by WhiteFeather (here)
Again This thread also has reverence in raising our spiritual growth as well, IMO and others that i have been researching, it seems by consuming The DNA Flesh of animals, hinders our spiritual growth, if you will. .

I would agree with that. I think it generally does - when it comes to those who are in real balance...like say Sans Bushmen hunters praying over their kill and thanking the soul for their family's continuance or some so other exotic example...then I don't personally know if it is that bad at all really...but for us lot in mass congregation at the behest of the controlling factor then, yeah, we'd probably get further 'spiritually' if we didn't vampire...I don't care about all that so much I am not trying to win spirit points!...I have just seen that fellow mammals have emotion and are innocent...I am not interested in devouring them...if that makes me 'more spiritual' then great!

I mean, if a bear eats a man - does the bear become less spiritual? The predominant thing in this, afaic, is that humans are not completely indigenous..therefore the choice we make in respect to this issue is important. You can't really complain if you find your spirit on some being's proverbial dinnerplate if you have spent your time guzzling concentration camp flesh all your life.

[RAPBRASIL]

Hi everyone!

I used to eat meat until the age of 18. After becoming a vegetarian it took about 6-7 years to detox the body.
The changes that I experienced were more on personality.... I became more calm and collective almost laid back in better tune with all around me.
A true journey to understanding self started. Perception improved and most of all my sensitivity towards all other life-forms became more profound.
My Spirituality became tangible and the loss of drive towards attaining futile objectives and silly worldly games that we play increased.

Once you reach a level of feeling the soul that once was in that meat, giving it up is easy, since one identifies self in all and All in Self.

Do not use the excuse that "what will I then eat?" .... there is such variety that rarely I eat the same dish in a month..... Lucky me I am in Brazil..... so the fruit and veg that is here is incredible... It has been almost 28 years and I have never had a craving for meat since I left.... Actually happy that I did make that choice.

Hope this helped...

Kind regards,

[TargeT]

Posted by WhiteFeather (here)
Again This thread also has reverence in raising our spiritual growth as well, IMO and others that i have been researching, it seems by consuming The DNA Flesh of animals, hinders our spiritual growth, if you will. Like i said in a previous post, Alex Collier states that The Andromedans from The Pleaides Star System consume only fruit and are considered fruitatarians only. I believe there is a clue as to why they indulge in fruit only. And i think its a spiritual advancement that benefits there highly evolved race. Hope this makes sense to some.

I disagree with this statement and find it is usually made with emotional attachment (as most "vegan" types seem to have).

I do not consider myself qualified enough to tell anyone (even myself) what my experience "here" is suppose to be; rather I strive to accept what is & use nature as a guide.

If I did not have teeth designed for meat I would probably more inclined to agree with the "plant only" people, however I also have personal experience to guide me & for me a vegan diet is terrible, draining & impacts my immune system (YMMV of course..).

I honestly don't see why vegans cannot be more accepting & feel the need to vilify that which they chose not to participate in (though this "elitist" mentality is very human, and I suppose it shouldn't surprise me); this reminds me a lot of religious doctrine that preaches tolerance & is anything but in action.

Though I also do not understand why food is cooked & have dabbled in raw eating off and on for a while; all perceptions have value & while some seem to by their very nature exclude others I do not think it is so.

[blufire]

@ dan i el . . . I have not seen one person on this thread supporting factory animal farming and I can only imagine this aimed mostly at me since I have been the most vocal meat consumer.

I still can not resolve logically how being a vegan or vegetarian is the only way (diet wise) that we will raise our spiritual level or growth . . .because it cannot be TRUTH for all humans on the planet.

How will an Inuit (Eskimo) or desert dweller be able to sustainably eat only fruits and vegetables. Even with our current technology it is not possible.

With this mind set or philosophy you condemn entire races of people or people who live in certain areas of the planet to what you deem low spiritual vibration and lesser spirituality. How is this compassionate or spiritual?

[TargeT]

I do agree that feed lots (where corn is the main food sourse, which in itself nearly kills cattle before they stumble into a slaughter house that is usualy connected) need a re design, luckily there is an option out there that has been persued by some:

and a movie made about this woman as well (worth a watch if you haven't seen it)
http://www.templegrandin.com/

http://www.grandin.com/humane/rec.slaughter.html

I also agree with bluefire's comments; in her first statement she underlines a bit of what I was commenting on (the "judgement" mentality); I also saw no support for current animal harvesting tech.s in this thread & personally support a more "natural" aproach to food gathering (which, by the way eliminates most modern farming, espeicaly grains... in this sense I think vegan's have it completely backward as grains are the only thing I can think of that we should NOT eat)

[dan i el]

with all respect blufire - get over it - the thread is about factory farming...not the dietary habits of Innuits nor Sans bush people for that matter... I didn't "condemn" anyone nor did I presume what their "spiritual vibration" might be...I don't even know what that actually means other than a rediculous buzzword! ..but to keep it on topic, I would definitely agree with the OP that factory farming is insane...I don't really see what part of my posts confused you into thinking I was saying something else *shrugs*

[dan i el]

Posted by TargeT (here)
I do agree that feed lots (where corn is the main food sourse, which in itself nearly kills cattle before they stumble into a slaughter house that is usualy connected) need a re design, luckily there is an option out there that has been persued by some:

and a movie made about this woman as well (worth a watch if you haven't seen it)
http://www.templegrandin.com/

http://www.grandin.com/humane/rec.slaughter.html

Temple Grandin is Autistic. People diagnosed to be on the Autistic spectrum are believed to be inherently more in tune with animal psychology than "neurotypicals"..her "love" of cows has led to much improvement in slaughter house process'. So if it's okay I'll say "well done Temple" whilst performing a facepalm.

*off topic* if you want to delve into the subject of why Autistic people are thought to be more cognizant to/with the emotions of non human mammalian consciousness' here is a good place to begin:
http://www.rdos.net/eng/

[blufire]

The first sentence only was directed at you, dan iel.

Yes this thread is on the atrocities of animal farming and slaughter and (by Whitefeather’s OP) the only way to raise our spiritual level or advance as a human race is to be a vegan or vegetarian.

Perhaps you should reread his (whitefeather’s) posts since this topic is his thread; my statements are encompassing his point of view and the original OP.

And yes this topic and philosophy should include and be Truth all peoples of the entire planet

Posted by dan i el (here)
with all respect blufire - get over it - the thread is about factory farming...not the dietary habits of Innuits nor Sans bush people for that matter... I didn't "condemn" anyone nor did I presume what their "spiritual vibration" might be...I don't even know what that actually means other than a rediculous buzzword! ..but to keep it on topic, I would definitely agree with the OP that factory farming is insane...I don't really see what part of my posts confused you into thinking I was saying something else *shrugs*

[dan i el]

Posted by blufire (here)
The first sentence only was directed at you, dan iel.

Yes this thread is on the atrocities of animal farming and slaughter and (by Whitefeather’s OP) the only way to raise our spiritual level or advance as a human race is to be a vegan or vegetarian.

Perhaps you should reread his (whitefeather’s) posts since this topic is his thread; my statements are encompassing his point of view and the original OP.

And yes this topic and philosophy should include and be Truth all peoples of the entire planet

I've read the whole thread, it just wasn't clearly demarcated where the "@dan i el" ended in your post..

afaic - surprising as it may be, for you, I think the idea of petitioning people on a socio-cultural or psycho-spiritual basis to adopt a strictly vegan diet is in line with conditioning towards the precepts of agenda 21.

I choose not to eat fellow mammals as I simply think it is sick in the head - that's just my own "spiritual" perspective on it...and I grew up in the countryside where it definitely is the normality, for what it's worth...

Your initial "beef", pardon the pun, was that "some people simplys need meat to survive" - that is simply not true.

Someone goes on about the shape of their teeth too.

but then by extension, when it comes to the issue of industrialised slaughter/factory farming -- I see no need to debate the "spiritual" arguement - afaic, it is simply obvious that this is a sickening activity.

Even if I rear some cows on an idyllic pasture giving them a bountiful life from when they were calfs, even if I happened to kindly give them milk from a bottle while they were vulnerable and young, the point where I sell them for cash to the slaughterhouse provides the reality of the situation. Some might even go as far as to decry it as "blood money".. I myself am not so militant and rather presume it as ignorance and social conditioning.

If someone wants vainly to defend industrial slaughter of creatures we could otherwise respect -- that is their look out . I hear the Hindus' respect specifically the cow as they do as the cow could and did travel with the people to higher ground after the deluge and the plentiful supply of milk the cow provided invariably helped sustain the people. It's a basic "thank you" tradition. Naja

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=aPhWfSeMYHA

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=B_ExP4JpLvM

[Tane Mahuta]

Posted by blufire (here)
@ dan i el . . . I have not seen one person on this thread supporting factory animal farming and I can only imagine this aimed mostly at me since I have been the most vocal meat consumer.

I still can not resolve logically how being a vegan or vegetarian is the only way (diet wise) that we will raise our spiritual level or growth . . .because it cannot be TRUTH for all humans on the planet.

How will an Inuit (Eskimo) or desert dweller be able to sustainably eat only fruits and vegetables. Even with our current technology it is not possible.

With this mind set or philosophy you condemn entire races of people or people who live in certain areas of the planet to what you deem low spiritual vibration and lesser spirituality. How is this compassionate or spiritual?

I too am a meatlover...

I enjoy a bit of red meat ocasionally...

I really enjoy white meats, ie: poulty/Seafood.

What I don't enjoy is how animals are inhumanely Slaughted.

How animals are mistreated


nuff said

TM

[161803398]

On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter.

"This is the first day that these pigs have EVER seen sunlight. And its through the windows of the truck that drives them to slaughter."
~ Julie O'Neill



I dont understand what you just said.

I understand joy and I understand despair.

[D-Day]

Posted by 161803398 (here)

On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter.

"This is the first day that these pigs have EVER seen sunlight. And its through the windows of the truck that drives them to slaughter."
~ Julie O'Neill



I dont understand what you just said.

I understand joy and I understand despair.

The phrase "we are all connected" does not apply only to human beings.
ALL things in this reality are connected... plants, animals, minerals, gases, liquids, solids etc etc.
Whether an animal is slaughtered to provide sustinance for another being, or a plant is slaughtered for the same purpose... there is ultimately NO difference between the two acts.
When broken down to base level, these two acts involve nothing more than a changing of form and an exchange of energy.
As cruel as this viewpoint might seem to some, it is the process by which all aspects of this 3D reality operate.
These processes are a natural part of our existence here, an existence that we each chose to experience before deciding to cone here.
I use the word "natural" because it IS the natural way of things in this reality, no two ways about it.
Unless, of course, we move into a different/new reality, which I acknowledge to be a possibility.
But before we can do that, I suspect it will be a requirement for us to experience and come to terms with ALL aspects of this reality first.
At the end of the day, we are here to experience, appreciate, learn and understand what this reality has to offer... the good, the bad, and the ugly.
With these points in mind, I'd say anyone who thinks they are more spiritually evolved than another because they consume plants and not animals is deluding themselves from the truth of the reality they have chosen to immerse themselves into.
The way I see it, those who want to raise their vibration in order to leave this reality behind won't be able to do so until they laern to exist in and accept this reality for what IT IS first.

[dan i el]

Posted by D-DAY (here)

Posted by 161803398 (here)

On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter.

"This is the first day that these pigs have EVER seen sunlight. And its through the windows of the truck that drives them to slaughter."
~ Julie O'Neill



I dont understand what you just said.

I understand joy and I understand despair.

The phrase "we are all connected" does not apply only to human beings.
ALL things in this reality are connected... plants, animals, minerals, gases, liquids, solids etc etc.
Whether an animal is slaughtered to provide sustinance for another being, or a plant is slaughtered for the same purpose... there is ultimately NO difference between the two acts.

By this reckoning then, if one eat some broccolli it is the same as if one eats another human being?

[DeBron]

Posted by dan i el (here)
To no-one in particular,

So many incipient defenders of factory farming on this thread.."yeah, but plants are animals too" " yeah, i get it but then you are a cannibal if your momma breast fed you", "yeah but yeah but this that and the other".

It's REALLY SIMPLE - you are not top of the food chain - no wonder we are in this stew energetically when most folk are walking around in the delusion that they are little mini capstones and the "EArth" is their BBQ

Like some participants in this thread have attempted to say again and again (and kudos to them) - the thread is about factory farming realities and factory farming realities only - where is the argument actually? It occurs to me that it is an obvious fact that factory farming is extremely powerful bad magic .. needing to state a case why one's own individual consumption of fellow mammals is holistic and "okay" is irrelevant to the subject at hand. >So hopefully, them that is feeling the need to do that can presently cease and desist now?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by DeBron (here)

Posted by dan i el (here)

Posted by DeBron (here)
On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter. .

Cerebral cortex and Limbic system...

Please clarify your statement. I honestly don't know. Your help would be greatly appreciated.

What wasn't clear for you in my statement?

Well your retort is very helpful and indeed the need to speak of personal tastes was not neccessary. The reason I wanted clarification in your statement was because you named a system in animals and a system in plants in response to one statement in my post. This was obviously an attempt to besmirk my input as trivial and unsubstantive.

I guess I am just a little frustrated because you responded to one line in my post, when I was adding to the discussion that the way we mass produce plant food is similar and often times more dangerous. They are both atrocious if you look at how you are harming the entity that is intended to be eaten.

Could it be done better? Of course. More efficiently? You bet. In a more cost effective manner? Not soon enough. There is the root of the matter. Profit and sustainability.

Farmers want to exist comfortably(as do we all). The most effective way to do that is by having more and more product on a smaller space, that produce a perishable good quicker and quicker. They are barely surviving and one alternative to this is to mass produce the things which have been successfully marketed to the public. These things are meat, dairy, wheat, and corn. All of these products are produced in manners that most would find appauling but dont care as long as they can get it cheaply. The only way to get it cheaply is by increasing efficiency in expedience of production. This includes using additives, genetically modifying our food to make it bear fruit faster, and using pesticides to kill off anything else that may encroach on the nutrients designated for the food.

This has received much pushback from people over the years and rightly so. Not enough research has been placed to find the long term effects of the things we have done with our food. I just find it a little condescending when people demonize the food industry. Where we are today in regards to this topic was not a simple process, and a simple solution will not fix it.

In our quest to feed the populace we have altered both flora and fauna to satiate the hungry beast. So until we learn as species to sustain our existence through sunlight only(which no known creature does, save a few monks ) we will have questionable feeding habits.


Oh I forgot to add......IMHO LOL

[DeBron]

[QUOTE=dan i el;462318][QUOTE=D-DAY;462293][QUOTE=161803398;462205]

By this reckoning then, if one eat some broccolli it is the same as if one eats another human being?

If you eat a human you go to jail... and in a sense while in prison you will be eaten alive LOL

[13th Warrior]

By this reckoning then, if one eat some broccolli it is the same as if one eats another human being?

Your statement brings up the pivotal point of this discussion.

It's a question of ethics.

The natural world doesn't operate under such constructs.

Ethic is a humanistic idealism and there is always going to be friction when one group tries to impose their ethical guidelines upon another. Ethics ties into my greater point about ethnocentrism.

[STATIC]

Posted by D-DAY (here)

Posted by 161803398 (here)

On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter.

"This is the first day that these pigs have EVER seen sunlight. And its through the windows of the truck that drives them to slaughter."
~ Julie O'Neill



I dont understand what you just said.

I understand joy and I understand despair.

The phrase "we are all connected" does not apply only to human beings.
ALL things in this reality are connected... plants, animals, minerals, gases, liquids, solids etc etc.
Whether an animal is slaughtered to provide sustinance for another being, or a plant is slaughtered for the same purpose... there is ultimately NO difference between the two acts.
When broken down to base level, these two acts involve nothing more than a changing of form and an exchange of energy.
As cruel as this viewpoint might seem to some, it is the process by which all aspects of this 3D reality operate.
These processes are a natural part of our existence here, an existence that we each chose to experience before deciding to cone here.
I use the word "natural" because it IS the natural way of things in this reality, no two ways about it.
Unless, of course, we move into a different/new reality, which I acknowledge to be a possibility.
But before we can do that, I suspect it will be a requirement for us to experience and come to terms with ALL aspects of this reality first.
At the end of the day, we are here to experience, appreciate, learn and understand what this reality has to offer... the good, the bad, and the ugly.
With these points in mind, I'd say anyone who thinks they are more spiritually evolved than another because they consume plants and not animals is deluding themselves from the truth of the reality they have chosen to immerse themselves into.
The way I see it, those who want to raise their vibration in order to leave this reality behind won't be able to do so until they laern to exist in and accept this reality for what IT IS first.

I think you are partially correct in you assessment IMHO. I have always thought that things are really difficult on this planet to learn really hard lessons in the fast lane. The subject we are talking about is one of those lessons.

The part that does not quite fit for me is that Mass slaughter of lifeforms is not something that is a preexisting condition on our planet. We brought that one to the table.

Sure many life forms are part of a cycle that kill other things for survival. This is a natural part of our reality which is dualistic in nature. Transference of energy is an ongoing and unstoppable process.

I just don't understand how the idea of mass murder of multiple species could be considered moral or natural just because it exists. It's not moral... this is the whole point. We as a species have used and abused this reality on every level.

So why do we do these things? We have great power in the making of our realities. Much more so than any other species on this planet. This is why we should be thanking the universe for this great gift by becoming responsible cosmic citizens.

For some strange reason beyond me this topic always creates a divide. It shouldn't because we are not talking about eating meat versus not eating meat. We are talking about mass murder with great pain involved for those animals being "harvested" verses a more respectful way of doing life.

This more respectful way is an ancient wisdom. You never take more than you need. Weather meat causes us problems on a vibrational level I can't say for sure. Whitefeather thinks so. I may agree but that doesn't really change anything.

End point... mass murder is immoral and we need to stop pretending it's not.

[13th Warrior]

Posted by STATIC (here)

Posted by D-DAY (here)

Posted by 161803398 (here)

On animal slaughter: I do not see the difference between it and vegetable slaughter.

"This is the first day that these pigs have EVER seen sunlight. And its through the windows of the truck that drives them to slaughter."
~ Julie O'Neill



I dont understand what you just said.

I understand joy and I understand despair.

The phrase "we are all connected" does not apply only to human beings.
ALL things in this reality are connected... plants, animals, minerals, gases, liquids, solids etc etc.
Whether an animal is slaughtered to provide sustinance for another being, or a plant is slaughtered for the same purpose... there is ultimately NO difference between the two acts.
When broken down to base level, these two acts involve nothing more than a changing of form and an exchange of energy.
As cruel as this viewpoint might seem to some, it is the process by which all aspects of this 3D reality operate.
These processes are a natural part of our existence here, an existence that we each chose to experience before deciding to cone here.
I use the word "natural" because it IS the natural way of things in this reality, no two ways about it.
Unless, of course, we move into a different/new reality, which I acknowledge to be a possibility.
But before we can do that, I suspect it will be a requirement for us to experience and come to terms with ALL aspects of this reality first.
At the end of the day, we are here to experience, appreciate, learn and understand what this reality has to offer... the good, the bad, and the ugly.
With these points in mind, I'd say anyone who thinks they are more spiritually evolved than another because they consume plants and not animals is deluding themselves from the truth of the reality they have chosen to immerse themselves into.
The way I see it, those who want to raise their vibration in order to leave this reality behind won't be able to do so until they laern to exist in and accept this reality for what IT IS first.

I think you are partially correct in you assessment IMHO. I have always thought that things are really difficult on this planet to learn really hard lessons in the fast lane. The subject we are talking about is one of those lessons.

The part that does not quite fit for me is that Mass slaughter of lifeforms is not something that is a preexisting condition on our planet. We brought that one to the table.

Sure many life forms are part of a cycle that kill other things for survival. This is a natural part of our reality which is dualistic in nature. Transference of energy is an ongoing and unstoppable process.

I just don't understand how the idea of mass murder of multiple species could be considered moral or natural just because it exists. It's not moral... this is the whole point. We as a species have used and abused this reality on every level.

So why do we do these things? We have great power in the making of our realities. Much more so than any other species on this planet. This is why we should be thanking the universe for this great gift by becoming responsible cosmic citizens.

For some strange reason beyond me this topic always creates a divide. It shouldn't because we are not talking about eating meat versus not eating meat. We are talking about mass murder with great pain involved for those animals being "harvested" verses a more respectful way of doing life.

This more respectful way is an ancient wisdom. You never take more than you need. Weather meat causes us problems on a vibrational level I can't say for sure. Whitefeather thinks so. I may agree but that doesn't really change anything.

End point... mass murder is immoral and we need to stop pretending it's not.

I understand your point but, to use a emotionally charged words like "mass murder" may not be the best way to express what is happening?

To murder is to kill out of hatred.

Would you call a wolf a murder when it kills a deer to eat it?

Would you call a wolf a murder if it killed a deer and didn't eat it?

How many life forms are killed and eaten on a daily basis by non-human entities; is this mass murder?

If a weasel gets into a chicken coup and kills 50 chickens and doesn't eat any of them; is this murder?

If a bear kills a sow's cubs so that the sow will come back into heat; is this murder?

If a lion takes down a zebra and starts to consume it's entrails whilst the animal is still alive; is this ethical?

[jorr lundstrom]

I worked in a slaughter house between 1973-1975. My job was to
kill and let blood from pigs. After 2 years I couldnt take it any longer.
The problem wasnt to kill pigs, it was the industrial fashion. The
stress, screams, stench, vibrations was unbearable.
Since then Ive slaughtered pigs, sheep, lambs, chicken, turkeys and
geeese at home. No problem. I eat meat, Ive eaten all kinds of
meat, exept human flesh. I havent needed to yet, Ive always had
something else to eat.
I dont mind if anyone want to start a religion on vegetarianism with
vegetarians as the righteous people and the rest as sinners or wot
so ever. I dont wanna join one of these congregations, but after wot
I read and my metings with militant vegans I can see that it wount
be easy to be left alone. I wonder if those selfrighteous people get
a high vibrational level from eating plants or from attacking meateaters.

All is one the stone, the plant, the animal and human. No problem. LOL





All is well

Jorr 2.0

[STATIC]

13th warrior. I apologize for using the word incorrectly.

kind of irrelevant though...

I was obviously speaking of The ethics of man not those of a wolf, bear, weasel or lion. I don't presume to know them.
The only ethics I'm sure of are my own... I was clearly questioning those of my species.