Animal Slaughter: A Time For Change

[wynderer]

i started a thread on veganism at Nexus -- very discouraging to me to learn how, even in 'alternative' communities, there is so little compassion for other beings -- most folks were defending their right to eat dead animals -- i told them that i'd spoken to their hearts . & they answered w/their bellies [probably fat bellies if they are from the USA]

this IS a lawful universe -- & what goes around does come around eventually -- Humans may be at the top of the food chain on this tiny little planet, but you are far from being at the top in your galaxy, let alone your universe

[161803398]

Sometimes people have difficulty just calling something what it is. If anyone thinks that cruelty and despair are good for our planet I don't understand how they can even contemplate a better world than the one we have.

Even if you don't care about mass slaughter and the relentless murder of billions of earth entities; then perhaps you could consider the grain that is fed to them to feed us....or the water pollution that is caused by factory farming.

If you need to eat meat so badly that you are comfortable will all of this...then I can understand why, in your mind, it is more comfortable to believe I am some kind of "fanatic". I'm not a fanatic; I'm a person who was made much sadder by knowledge and find no alternative but to try to fix it.

[STATIC]

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
I worked in a slaughter house between 1973-1975. My job was to
kill and let blood from pigs. After 2 years I couldnt take it any longer.
The problem wasnt to kill pigs, it was the industrial fashion. The
stress, screams, stench, vibrations was unbearable.
Since then Ive slaughtered pigs, sheep, lambs, chicken, turkeys and
geeese at home. No problem. I eat meat, Ive eaten all kinds of
meat, exept human flesh. I havent needed to yet, Ive always had
something else to eat.
I dont mind if anyone want to start a religion on vegetarianism with
vegetarians as the righteous people and the rest as sinners or wot
so ever. I dont wanna join one of these congregations, but after wot
I read and my metings with militant vegans I can see that it wount
be easy to be left alone. I wonder if those selfrighteous people get
a high vibrational level from eating plants or from attacking meateaters.

All is one the stone, the plant, the animal and human. No problem. LOL





All is well

Jorr 2.0

I am very much against the Idea of the religion that you mention.
I am against militant anything for that matter. If you impose your truth on another person you are participating in a type of militant behavior.
I hope I was not preceived as such. To be clear I am not against eating meat. My opinion on factory farming was reiterated by this part of your post.

After 2 years I couldnt take it any longer.
The problem wasnt to kill pigs, it was the industrial fashion. The
stress, screams, stench, vibrations was unbearable.

This is the topic at hand. The conditions under which factory style slaughterhouses operate are not conducive to the well being of any Sentient being involved with it.
The only reason it is this way is because of greed. So while it may be within the ethical code of good business to be greedy, as far as I understand it greed has never been associated what you would call a sound moral conduct.
So the obvious conclusion taking into account all that has been said in the thread. The Factory slaughter enterprise as such needs to revamp it's business practices to align itself with a more compassionate code of conduct.
They probably won't do this on there own (too greedy), so those who don't want to see this anymore either buy meat from a more organic style of farming or just quit eating it.
I see either option as good IMHO.

[Ivanhoe]

Well at the risk of incurring someone's wrath,.... I'm an omnivore and I love it.
Sometimes my body craves vegetables and grain, sometimes meat.
I love it all.
I don't agree with industrial meat production, but I don't have a problem with a hunter/fisherman/gatherer consuming his catch or harvest.
I am of the opinion that ALL living things have a sense of "being", be they plant or animal.
Is it less of a sin to kill one than the other? I don't think so.
You can rationalize it all you want, but as humans we have to harvest something in order to survive.
But this is only my opinion, feel free to reject/accept it as you see fit.
So, until I can master living off the air I breath I will continue to be an omnivore.

[TargeT]

Posted by wynderer (here)
i started a thread on veganism at Nexus -- very discouraging to me to learn how, even in 'alternative' communities, there is so little compassion for other beings -- most folks were defending their right to eat dead animals -- i told them that i'd spoken to their hearts . & they answered w/their bellies [probably fat bellies if they are from the USA]

this IS a lawful universe -- & what goes around does come around eventually -- Humans may be at the top of the food chain on this tiny little planet, but you are far from being at the top in your galaxy, let alone your universe

what does your definition of a "being" include (or more importantly, EXCLUDE)?

your response has a tone that I have long ago identified with typically emotion based response (you chose to use an insult in it for example "fat bellies", this is indicative of bad logic)

Does the bacteria in our digestive track count on your list or is that beneath your definition?

could it not be that we are all (even the bacteria) working together in a synergistic harmony? what is ying without yang? who are "you"(me, anyone...) to decide what change is good and what change is bad?

If you choose to only "kill" plants to sustain yourself I have no problem with that, the logical inconsistencies & emotion based responses I do have a problem with.

Posted by 161803398 (here)
Sometimes people have difficulty just calling something what it is. If anyone thinks that cruelty and despair are good for our planet I don't understand how they can even contemplate a better world than the one we have.

Even if you don't care about mass slaughter and the relentless murder of billions of earth entities; then perhaps you could consider the grain that is fed to them to feed us....or the water pollution that is caused by factory farming.

If you need to eat meat so badly that you are comfortable will all of this...then I can understand why, in your mind, it is more comfortable to believe I am some kind of "fanatic". I'm not a fanatic; I'm a person who was made much sadder by knowledge and find no alternative but to try to fix it.

you’re not a fanatic, you just choose to limit your perspective based on limitations to life that you find acceptable & that makes you feel more comfortable with your role as a destroyer / creator.

Posted by STATIC (here)

After 2 years I couldnt take it any longer.
The problem wasnt to kill pigs, it was the industrial fashion. The
stress, screams, stench, vibrations was unbearable.

This is the topic at hand. The conditions under which factory style slaughterhouses operate are not conducive to the well being of any Sentient being involved with it.
The only reason it is this way is because of greed. So while it may be within the ethical code of good business to be greedy, as far as I understand it greed has never been associated what you would call a sound moral conduct.
So the obvious conclusion taking into account all that has been said in the thread. The Factory slaughter enterprise as such needs to revamp it's business practices to align itself with a more compassionate code of conduct.
They probably won't do this on there own (too greedy), so those who don't want to see this anymore either buy meat from a more organic style of farming or just quit eating it.
I see either option as good IMHO.

yes, this is the topic & your suggestions are probably close to what most people do, in fact I think that we can all agree on this basic premis; but a disturbing attitude has arisin and should be discussed (as several posts seem to be touching on)

[STATIC]

but a disturbing attitude has arisin and should be discussed

I assume you are referring to the inevitable emotional aspect of this conversation?

feathers will always be ruffled with this topic matter. I think we have all seen it before.

[161803398]

sorry Target, Im just a person who can see when the world is out of balance and take what action I believe appropriate as my part to fix it. That's all I can do.

[13th Warrior]

Posted by 161803398 (here)
sorry Target, Im just a person who can see when the world is out of balance.

We are in agreement.

The difference is that you see the imbalance originates from humans eating animals.

I see the imbalance stemming from humans having become out of touch with the natural world in which we live.

My next comments are directed to vegans/vegetarians in general:

A large portion of our problems are concentrated around sustainability.

Which is the more sustainable practice:

Woolen sweaters or synthetic clothing?

Leather shoes and belts or plastic shoes and belts?

Nylon tent material or cotton canvas?

How many products do you use that come from plant/animal based materials vs synthetic petroleum based materials?

Are all your health and beauty products made from plant based oils?

Do you know the difference?

Which is more eco friendly/ethical?

[STATIC]

who are "you"(me, anyone...) to decide what change is good and what change is bad?

If you choose to only "kill" plants to sustain yourself I have no problem with that, the logical inconsistencies & emotion based responses I do have a problem with

I see no inconsistency in logic. Can you explain?
Why do you have a problem with an emotional response when the topic matter is clearly emotional for some people.
Also I don't understand how we can even be human if we don't have any opinion about what is right or wrong. That's what is upside down and backwards about our planet right now. Things that are totally crazy are being viewed as perfectly normal(War, starvation, environmental destruction and so on). As humans our view of what is right or wrong comes from our emotions. If we had no emotions we would have no concept of what right or wrong is.

[161803398]

I never mentioned where the imbalance originates. Why are you claiming that I did?

[TargeT]

Posted by 13th Warrior (here)

Posted by 161803398 (here)
sorry Target, Im just a person who can see when the world is out of balance.

We are in agreement.

The difference is that you see the imbalance originates from humans eating animals.

I see the imbalance stemming from humans having become out of touch with the natural world in which we live.
My next comments are directed to vegans/vegetarians in general:

A large portion of our problems are concentrated around sustainability.

Which is the more sustainable practice:

Woolen sweaters or synthetic clothing?

Leather shoes and belts or plastic shoes and belts?

Nylon tent material or cotton canvas?

How many products do you use that come from plant/animal based materials vs synthetic petroleum based materials?

Are all your health and beauty products made from plant based oils?

Do you know the difference?

Which is more eco friendly/ethical?

even your comments I feel are slightly misconstruing the real issue, HOWEVER I feel they are good examples to get people thinking more "openly" on topics that they feel they already "know" about. (Knowledge of anything is the surest way to stifle learning and growth)

a semantics debate will not further this issue I think; however I do agree with the bolded statement very strongly & its implications are much more pervasive than just this topic.

Posted by STATIC (here)

who are "you"(me, anyone...) to decide what change is good and what change is bad?

If you choose to only "kill" plants to sustain yourself I have no problem with that, the logical inconsistencies & emotion based responses I do have a problem with

I see no inconsistency in logic. Can you explain?
Why do you have a problem with an emotional response when the topic matter is clearly emotional for some people.
Also I don't understand how we can even be human if we don't have any opinion about what is right or wrong. That's what is upside down and backwards about our planet right now. Things that are totally crazy are being viewed as perfectly normal(War, starvation, environmental destruction and so on). As humans our view of what is right or wrong comes from our emotions. If we had no emotions we would have no concept of what right or wrong is.

the definition of "life" in this case, its ok to terminate a plants life, but not an animal (or not an animal in certain ways...) its ok for millions of your own skin cells ( alive, again...) to die and fall off every day, but not to kill a larger collection of cells, bacteria colonies are the same, someone who uses mouth wash & then complains of animal death is inconsistent (IMO, I could be wrong and often am )

I have a problem with emotion when ever it comes time to understand something, emotion has little to do with logic, learning or understanding/communication; this is a much larger topic & I wouldn't want to muddy this thread further than I already am, so I'll leave it at that.

opinions are good, attempting to judge someone else based on your opinion is often not good & I see this here.

I also do not think that emotion is the core of "right and wrong", however I think these are very subjective terms & usually turn to "intent & desired outcome" before I even come CLOSE to using those labels.

[13th Warrior]

Posted by 161803398 (here)
I never mentioned where the imbalance originates. Why are you claiming that I did?

Could you then elaborate on where this imbalance comes?

[STATIC]

the definition of "life" in this case, its ok to terminate a plants life, but not an animal (or not an animal in certain ways...) its ok for millions of your own skin cells ( alive, again...) to die and fall off every day, but not to kill a larger collection of cells, bacteria colonies are the same, someone who uses mouth wash & then complains of animal death is inconsistent

lol, I never use mouthwash
I'l just say this. I feel bad when i see animals die. In response I want to own that feeling, and be true to them. Therefore I am now choosing to not support there death in any way. The argument your making doesn't make any sense to me, which is ok because we see things differently. Bacteria doesn't scream in agony when I wash my sink with scolding hot water so i don't feel bad about it. Now you understand that I personally decode my reality heavily through feelings. I don't discount what you are saying though. I understand your logic now, and I disagree very respectfully and without judgment.

tyler

[161803398]

I don't know where the imbalance originates and, in any event, the topic of this thread is "animal slaughter". It hasn't escaped my notice that the world at the moment is awash with negative and irrational thinking and the reason for that is utterly obscure to me.

[161803398]

Video about pollution from tanneries on the Ganges river:

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/...ampur-threats/

[TargeT]

Posted by 161803398 (here)
Video about pollution from tanneries on the Ganges river:

http://video.nationalgeographic.com/...ampur-threats/

Posted by 161803398 (here)
in any event, the topic of this thread is "animal slaughter".

the miss-use of lye is more of a topic for perhaps, capitalism criticism.. it really has little to do with this thread

[161803398]

https://youtube.com/watch?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=53K1NspYwsA

[13th Warrior]

Posted by 161803398 (here)
https://youtube.com/watch?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=53K1NspYwsA

Unity would be great; as long as it isn't obtained through faith in a "religion"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8kx_vsbpfRU

[161803398]

the miss-use of lye is more of a topic for perhaps, capitalism criticism.. it really has little to do with this thread

I don't think it mentioned lye. Other chemicals mentioned. I guess you didn't notice someone had mentioned leather belts etc. Could be relevant to animal slaughter, hmmmm?

[13th Warrior]

Posted by 161803398 (here)

the miss-use of lye is more of a topic for perhaps, capitalism criticism.. it really has little to do with this thread

I don't think it mentioned lye. Other chemicals mentioned. I guess you didn't notice someone had mentioned leather belts etc. Could be relevant to animal slaughter, hmmmm?

Do you wear leather belts or shoes? How about a purse or hand bag with make up or lip gloss?