Welcome to The Pub At the End of the Universe.

[Borden]

Songsy, as you know, I also know those howlers well - those dream-eating pit-bulls that don't let go. Those are sentinels whose job it is to disempower us and keep us locked in the virus world. They're as brilliant as you can imagine. They're only as brilliant as you can imagine. You know all that.

In moments of wisdom we have the ability to step outside of our harrowing struggles and calmly observe the bloody battle that's actually going on. I recognize that it isn't really me doing all that fighting, struggling and suffering. A moment of distillation, and then touching my own face ... knowing, "this is me ... not that." Unfortunately I sometimes allow myself to conflate my moments of transcendent joy with the circumstances in which I feel them. Actually I think we all do that to some extent.

But that joy is not just another illusion created by the mind-virus to bog me down in limitation. The virus would like me to think it is, but I know different. If I honestly believed the virus about that then I would have become Mr Spock or Dr. Manhattan a long time ago. I didn't come here just to escape it all. When I say 'transcendent' joy I mean the kind of joy that touches us in ways greater than the animal, social, mating, situational joy. There is virus relief ... and then there is that which transcends the virus.

Here's something from a tale heavy with savage mind-virus ... but the little boy running, the footsteps in the music ... and then the triumph of lying in the water looking at the heavens - well, the clue's in the title to the piece.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7qWbcosJdtU

[songsfortheotherkind]

an awesome day spent getting things done and organising our new abode. I've decided to go for fully furnished so that we can get rid of everything, and a three month temporary house while we find our longer term home- we have a network of individuals looking for the perfect place for us, which means pet and garden friendly. I am in the process of putting out flyers for a lesbian/bi women's social group, with a teen group as support for my daughter. I've got workshop planning happening, some one day talks/seminars on sui generis in the pipeline and we're looking at getting a part time nanny for 20-25 hours per week to support the girls.

I'm up to my eyeballs in house packing, cleaning and organising, so I'm going to limit my writing to early mornings and evenings. I want to focus my writing more on the sui generis/Otherkind work, so we'll see how effective I am at that, heh heh.

Life is beautiful and full of Shine. I love my Clan here.

[Katyani]

Posted by Borden (here)
There is virus relief ... and then there is that which transcends the virus.

Here's something from a tale heavy with savage mind-virus ... but the little boy running, the footsteps in the music ... and then the triumph of lying in the water looking at the heavens - well, the clue's in the title to the piece.

Thank you for posting that scene, it's been a long time since I've watched that movie. The lake turning into the sky is breathtaking. Music really is a very potent elixir, one of the transcendent joys. The right kind of music can keep me up way past bedtime. It's both the music itself and where we allow it to take us. Excellent vehicles.

edit: There is something I've been wondering about. For a while now, I've become highly charged and energized when listening to music I like. If I do it before going to bed, I can't fall asleep at all. This isn't exactly a problem, I'm more curious to know if anyone else here has the same experience.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Borden (here)
When I say 'transcendent' joy I mean the kind of joy that touches us in ways greater than the animal, social, mating, situational joy. There is virus relief ... and then there is that which transcends the virus.

I'm going for Pan and Selene level physical, and there's no virus in that space. Physical connection is not a relief from the virus for me, it is part of the transcendence.



In whatever way we resonate with it, beyond virus is a good space to be.

The music was beautiful: I love the image of swimming in stars.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
human beings, in relation to the multiverse or whatever you wanna call it, actually see and experience very little of it. i know this isn't groundbreaking news here but i liked the metaphor, so...

i too want to experience more of it, but i tend to think the universe reveals the bits of itself that we are only ready for; to experience too much of it too soon can be dangerous(think bad acid trip here) the universe in and of itself is not malevolent, but if one is exposed to parts of it they're not ready for it can certainly seem that way.

Hence the reason I'm working on cracking off the human aspects as much as I can and expanding into my Otherness- I'm really curious about what parts of the multiverse I can't see, and *why* that is...

i must admit that i laughed a little when you wrote that you "played with the multiple personality structure". i'm not sure if you were speaking euphemistically or literally, but i immediately envisioned a doctor explaining to a confused parent in the kindest way possible the reasons behind their son or daughters' madness..."well, it's like this Mrs.Smith, little Johnny is acting like that little girl from 'the exorcist' not because he's nuts, but because he's 'playing and experimenting with the multiple personality structure'.

literally. At one stage there were 26 but that got ridiculous, so we merged down to 8 main players and an unknown number of background observers. It's a very interesting space to play in and I did it for about 5 years as part of the 'abruptly shoved in' space (rather than walk in, it was far more brutal and disruptive than walking).

so little of what is experienced is conscious, you're right, but i myself do not panic or feel overwhelmed by it; mainly because i've been too distracted with trying to stay alive for the past 6-7yrs my heart is messed up in a major way, and i've only been able to indulge my esoteric side recently; so forgive me if i'm a little behind the 8 ball here.

compared to where I have been, even in the recent past, I am definitely behind the 8 ball, so it's all good. I resonate with the health struggle thing and I'm glad that you're at the point where you can indulge in many things- alchohol, esoterica, p0rn... :D

you said that the idea that anyone else can actually hurt you is a myth, and i agree in the abstract, but applying this abstract notion in the real world has been next to impossible for me, especially when enveloped in a cocoon of pain and despair. in such a state i don't respond emotionally to what i know to be true intellectually, and i suppose the trick is not to get into that position in the first place. i don't mean shutting yourself off from the world, but strengthening yourself beforehand, through meditation or some other form of spiritual practice. (i just registered for meditation classes at the Zen center here in town. pretty excited)

for me, the part about not getting into that space in the first place was the point about the man eating plant- it happens when I compromise my Self with all these stupid notions of self sacrifice being 'caring' etc. If I allow my Self to violate my Self, then that's where the issue is for me, not in the other individual. I want to be able to have radically honest conversations where none of the parties are coming from a space of fear, hiding, distortion, virus blah etc etc. I love radical honesty and I'm getting into it more, it's a great concept that works for me.

Meditation is awesome and I suck at it unless I have headphones on and am listening to something like binaural beats, etc.

i'd like to say more, but my hungover brain is simply not responding, and i can no longer take caffeine due to said heart malady, so there ya go. my night last night was absolutely insane. i rarely go out these days, and when i do i'm immediately reminded why i don't. i'll post all about it later if i have the energy...

I too don't go out much, because I can't readily find individuals that can handle my conversation topics. Can't imagine why...

[Mike]

ha!!! Songsy, you will probably think i'm pulling your chain, but there was a period of time not too long ago when i *couldn't* indulge in porn, or any real life activities resembling porn...if...ahem...you know what i mean

you'd be surprised to know (or it may just be me) that a formerly virile man on his death bed *still*cares about such things, and was willing to take the risk to...uh...satisfy certain needs. picture a man hunched over a computer, ready for some...how shall i say this?...solo entertainment...with one hand on his (blank) and another on his heart to monitor it's level of stress, slowly proceeding with a question mark on his face (will i make it thru this?). it's a true story, and that's just the tip of the iceberg, m'lady. actually not even -- more like the tip of the tip of the tip of the....if i was even a fraction as prolific as you, you and everyone else here would have my full story, and though it does not involve aliens, other dimensions, or illuminati assassins, it would be by far the craziest motherf#ckin thing on this entire forum, hands down. (i'm working on the book as we speak; all pubbers get free autographed copies)

i've failed at the meditation thing about 3 times over. i can't even come close to the zazen position; last time i went i was the only person in the group of 12 meditating in a chair, and i quit due to embarrassment. but i'm over that sh!t now, and ready to get started.

Songs, you can't find people to handle your conversation topics??? you *must* be kidding! i'd *kill* for a night out on the town with you, just to see you in action! sure, we had our little moment at the carnival, (wink wink nod nod), but that was too fleeting for me, and i feel a little cheated. sh!t, i'd love to get the whole pub out for a night on the town; can you imagine?!?

[Mike]

Posted by Borden (here)
My sober opinion is that this scene is indeed as funny as you think it is. That film (Old School) sits proudly in my increasingly huge DVD collection, and when I first saw that particular scene I was in bits. Does this change of sig mean I really was Ron Burgundy all along? I knew it. You were playing with my mind, you fiend! If anyone's going to show Christina Applegate his jazz flute I want it to be me!

Are you drunk again ... or did your night out with that friend turn into drunkenness of a more epic nature?

ha! this picture has me cracking up over here. hilarious!

you've just reminded me -- i have an interesting story to tell you guys (btw, when i say guys, i mean girls too) about this night on the town of mine. will post a little later...

[another bob]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
i've failed at the meditation thing about 3 times over. i can't even come close to the zazen position; last time i went i was the only person in the group of 12 meditating in a chair, and i quit due to embarrassment. but i'm over that sh!t now, and ready to get started.

Speaking as one who has been practicing meditation for over half a century, and studied at length under several world-renowned meditation masters, I will share with you that sitting in the formal lotus or half-lotus or even on a pillow on the floor is totally unnecessary, and in fact probably inappropriate for westerners. It is actually counter-productive to achieving meditative states for many, and can lead to long-term injuries to both knees and spine.

Rather than trying to twist your body into a pretzel, find a way to be as comfortable as possible. The only real requirement is to keep your spine straight, and if you are in a chair, cross your ankles (this keeps the circuit of energy flowing).

If the people at the center you are attending tell you otherwise, find another center immediately.

If you have other questions in this regard, please feel free to ask.

[Calz]

Posted by Borden (here)

Are you drunk again ... or did your night out with that friend turn into drunkenness of a more epic nature?

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
i've failed at the meditation thing about 3 times over. i can't even come close to the zazen position; last time i went i was the only person in the group of 12 meditating in a chair, and i quit due to embarrassment. but i'm over that sh!t now, and ready to get started.

Speaking as one who has been practicing meditation for over half a century,

...

If you have other questions in this regard, please feel free to ask.

You Pub Patrons *really* don't want to get me started on drunk people images.

Trust me on that one ...



I will chime in from the cheap seat section on something (related) I was told many (many) years ago by a "teacher type" friend regarding meditation. She suggested *not* to attempt meditation within 24 hours of drinking alcohol.

That turned into my biggest "enemy" in that regard in that I really enjoy having a glass of red wine (or two) before sleeping (helps to sleep during the day with all the noise and fighting your body's natural cycle).

Many attempts going 2 or 3 weeks ending in frustration and impatience at not recognizing any "progress" and angst at making "sacrifices with no obvious return".


I do have one question for Bob.

You mentioned "critters" when briefly talking about channeling. In your 50 years experience with meditation can you elaborate on how "critters" would be any less likely to interfere with meditation than channeling (or any other type of trance for that matter).

Supposedly a number of methods to take you "to the door" but most suggest needing some means of "protection" once you enter.

[another bob]

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
I do have one question for Bob.

You mentioned "critters" when briefly talking about channeling. In your 50 years experience with meditation can you elaborate on how "critters" would be any less likely to interfere with meditation than channeling (or any other type of trance for that matter).

Supposedly a number of methods to take you "to the door" but most suggest needing some means of "protection" once you enter.

Hiya Calz!

Are you having experience with entities, or is it just a general question?

Generally speaking, if we were to have our blinders removed, we would be surprised to notice that we are swimming in a sea of critters of various kinds and qualities. To my understanding, channeling opens oneself up to intercourse with certain entities, whereas most meditative practices tend to discourage such interaction, regarding them as a distraction (or in Zen, as "makyo", ie hallucination).

I would also note that you yourself are "the door", and so do you need protection from yourself? Granted, in many traditions there are all sorts of mantras and spells etc invoked for protection, but there's another approach that is even more helpful, and that is to recognize that the source of all appearances is one's own mind. True Meditation is about inspecting that mind, to the point of recognition.

When inspecting that mind, nothing is grasped at or clung to, nor is anything that appears avoided. Thus, all preferences are recognized and seen through as obsolete errors of judgment and appreciation. The sky is not bothered by clouds. You are the free open spaciousness in which all appears and disappears. The only problem arises when you identify with and fixate on any apparent transient phenomena, self-image, or object of consciousness, taking the conditional to be who and what you are, and thereby forgetting your true and eternal sky-like nature and condition.

[Calz]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
I do have one question for Bob.

You mentioned "critters" when briefly talking about channeling. In your 50 years experience with meditation can you elaborate on how "critters" would be any less likely to interfere with meditation than channeling (or any other type of trance for that matter).

Supposedly a number of methods to take you "to the door" but most suggest needing some means of "protection" once you enter.

Hiya Calz!

Are you having experience with entities, or is it just a general question?

Generally speaking, if we were to have our blinders removed, we would be surprised to notice that we are swimming in a sea of critters of various kinds and qualities. To my understanding, channeling opens oneself up to intercourse with certain entities, whereas most meditative practices tend to discourage such interaction, regarding them as a distraction (or in Zen, as "makyo", ie hallucination).

I would also note that you yourself are "the door", and so do you need protection from yourself? Granted, in many traditions there are all sorts of mantras and spells etc invoked for protection, but there's another approach that is even more helpful, and that is to recognize that the source of all appearances is one's own mind. True Meditation is about inspecting that mind, to the point of recognition.

When inspecting that mind, nothing is grasped at or clung to, nor is anything that appears avoided. Thus, all preferences are recognized and seen through as obsolete errors of judgment and appreciation. The sky is not bothered by clouds. You are the free open spaciousness in which all appears and disappears. The only problem arises when you identify with and fixate on any apparent transient phenomena, self-image, or object of consciousness, taking the conditional to be who and what you are, and thereby forgetting your true and eternal sky-like nature and condition.

General question ... at least regarding trance state.

That said I have little or no doubt *I* am, indeed, my biggest "enemy".


Actually it is something I have always wondered about (how various trance states compare). Some have attempted to answer this question before but I see contradicting information out there as well. Obviously with channeling you are "inviting" some entity in ... but many speak of communicating with all sorts of multidimensional beings while meditating so the distinction has never been clear to me (speaking as one who has never been able to meditate or go astral (I have never been interested in attempting to channel myself).

If you want to take it another step down the rabbit hole then include the information suggested by Lou and "others". Or would that fall under this condition:

The only problem arises when you identify with and fixate on any apparent transient phenomena, self-image, or object of consciousness, taking the conditional to be who and what you are, and thereby forgetting your true and eternal sky-like nature and condition.

We touched very lightly on DMT (while you were away) in regard to clinical linkage to some of the abduction type phenomena.

[Mike]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)
i've failed at the meditation thing about 3 times over. i can't even come close to the zazen position; last time i went i was the only person in the group of 12 meditating in a chair, and i quit due to embarrassment. but i'm over that sh!t now, and ready to get started.

Speaking as one who has been practicing meditation for over half a century, and studied at length under several world-renowned meditation masters, I will share with you that sitting in the formal lotus or half-lotus or even on a pillow on the floor is totally unnecessary, and in fact probably inappropriate for westerners. It is actually counter-productive to achieving meditative states for many, and can lead to long-term injuries to both knees and spine.

Rather than trying to twist your body into a pretzel, find a way to be as comfortable as possible. The only real requirement is to keep your spine straight, and if you are in a chair, cross your ankles (this keeps the circuit of energy flowing).

If the people at the center you are attending tell you otherwise, find another center immediately.

If you have other questions in this regard, please feel free to ask.

thank you Bob! i hope you mean that, because i *will* be asking you a bunch of questions, i'm sure

first class is this wednesday. will keep you updated.

[Mike]

Calzy, i breathe a little sigh of relief whenever you post on such things, because i'm reminded that i'm not totally alone in my struggles involving the otherworld. we are amongst heavyweights here, and it's easy -- for me, anyway -- to feel a little inadequate at times.

i don't take too much alcohol these days, just occasionally, but i used to (mainly to help with sleep, like yourself) and i had similar problems.

are you currently meditating?

[Calz]

Posted by Chinaski (here)

are you currently meditating?

Never been able to. Was posting in support of you implying you were wanting to have a go

[Lisab]

Good luck with your meditation class "Chingy"! I was lucky to learn TM thru a charity called The Meditation Trust here in the uk on the cheap. Been practicing for two years now, just plonk down anywhere, love it! By the way thanks for the MCA tribute, loved him too. And that Old Skool clip, bloody classic!

Would post you other pub folks some great comic character images, being a fan but alas posting on phone and pants at all that techy stuff! But if I could now it would be Halo Jones.

Ps Songs you really should write a book.

Bob hope you and yours are ok

[Mike]

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)

Posted by Chinaski (here)

are you currently meditating?

Never been able to. Was posting in support of you implying you were wanting to have a go

gotcha

that graveyard shift is a killer, ain't it? not conducive to spiritual practice to say the least.

i've done graveyard too, and it's brutal, but you know what's worse? the 5am -noon shift.

i did it at a restaurant in a high-class hotel, years ago. had to be up at 4am to even have a reasonable shot at getting there on time.

i'd get there at 5am , set up the buffet, work my shift, and return home around 12:30 in the afternoon. then i'd lay in my bed and repeat to myself -don't fall asleep, don't fall asleep, dont fall aslep -- knowing, of course, that if i did i would not sleep that night. of course i *would* fall asleep, waking at 6 or 7 in the evening, mistaking it for 6or 7 in the morning, and panicking, thinking i was late for work, i would put my uniform on, throw on the tie, splash water on my face and then hustle outside to my car.

there was always a brief feeling of euphoria when i realized the mistake i'd made, and a little embarrassment, but all was soon replaced by this dread of knowing i had this sh!t job to go to at 4 o'clock in the morning. so i'd go get a 6 pack, rip open a can,drink 3 or 4, staring at the walls of my bedroom, and i'd finally fall asleep at 1 or 2am, waking just in time to toilet, bathe, eat, splash water on my face and drive back on in.

it was a horrific cycle. madness. everyone kept telling me: "don't quit (it paid really well) you'll get used it. just give it time." i never got used to it. it drove me bloody mad.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Lisab (here)
Good luck with your meditation class "Chingy"! I was lucky to learn TM thru a charity called The Meditation Trust here in the uk on the cheap. Been practicing for two years now, just plonk down anywhere, love it! By the way thanks for the MCA tribute, loved him too. And that Old Skool clip, bloody classic!

Would post you other pub folks some great comic character images, being a fan but alas posting on phone and pants at all that techy stuff! But if I could now it would be Halo Jones.

Ps Songs you really should write a book.

Bob hope you and yours are ok

ha! thanks LIsaB! i'll need all the luck i can get. no, but seriously, i feel pretty confident this time. i think i'm ready.

i love that old-school hip hop, too. i don't care what any of these young-bucks say -- that's my period and i dig it.

[Calz]

Posted by Lisab (here)

Ps Songs you really should write a book.

Hi Lisab


... she is ... go back and read the whole thread

[another bob]

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
If you want to take it another step down the rabbit hole then include the information suggested by Lou and "others". Or would that fall under this condition:

The only problem arises when you identify with and fixate on any apparent transient phenomena, self-image, or object of consciousness, taking the conditional to be who and what you are, and thereby forgetting your true and eternal sky-like nature and condition.

From my experience, Calz, I have found that whatever is appropriate for us in regard to various practices, techniques, experiences, and such is naturally provided and granted to us, as we become available and ready to handle them, or as causes and conditions set in motion via past seeds ripen.

If you are drawn to rabbit holes, then you will be given guidance, as long as your intention is sincere. Remember to offer all your actions, words, and deeds for the benefit of the best outcome for all beings, so as to avoid the trap of selfishness in your pursuits. If you are drawn to some avenue of exploration, then go for it.

That said, I've also seen many brave hearts end up in dead end situations, confounded and deluded, because they did not bother to train properly under the guidance of an adept who could have saved them a lot of wasted effort. True, sometimes wasted effort can be a lesson in itself, but sometimes it's just wasted effort.

We touched very lightly on DMT (while you were away) in regard to clinical linkage to some of the abduction type phenomena.

Never tried it.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
, but seriously, i feel pretty confident this time.

Just to throw in my two or three cents, to my way of thinking, this is one of the main things. Confidence and patience can not be misunderestimated.

[another bob]

Posted by Chinaski (here)
thank you Bob! i hope you mean that, because i *will* be asking you a bunch of questions, i'm sure

first class is this wednesday. will keep you updated.

Will endeavor to support your efforts in whatever way possible -- it's why we've all been brought together.