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Thread: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

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    Default An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    REQUEST regarding posts to be made in this thread.

    Hi Folks – I am hoping to create an exploratory discussion of Jesus and do so with clear guidelines about what we should stick to in this thread. I request posters honor this request.

    There is no intention in my request to diminish anyone’s beliefs. I respect all beliefs of all folks that walk the earth but this thread is not for posting fundamentalist views/arguements nor defend the Jesus one may happen to believe in by quoting from the Bible nor supporting arguments based on first hand or second hand testimonials that then support what is known as “scripture.”

    If you want to do that, please create your own thread.

    This thread will assume a man did live from which the Jesus legends arose. This thread’s intention is to explore the information we have from all sources available and this can include the Bible as a source as long as whoever posts does not insist what is taken from the Bible is the definitive "Word of God," perhaps the only Word of God nor projects the attitude that because something has been found in the Bible it must be the absolute and inarguable truth.

    Please, let’s keep our feet on the ground throughout this thread so we can explore the possibilities in a way we do not degenerate into the two camps of a.) fundamentalist believers who insist their view is correct and is the only correct view and b.) open minded explorers.

    I thank everyone in advance for honoring this request.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    And now for the Opening Post:

    Houman’s Horus-Ra thread inspired me to begin another thread that I named Jesus the man / JESUS the Archon which I created for the purpose of exploring what do we really know about Jesus? I was hoping we could consider what circumstances were involved in the religio/political dynamics at the time of Jesus. I was hoping we could consider what alternative views could come forth regarding what may have actually happened with Jesus as opposed to simply accepting just what the Bible says happened. I was hoping we might explore if Jesus perhaps heard a voice or voices and/or had experienced visions of extra-dimensional beings and/or demonic entities. Could Jesus have been a victim himself of a savior complex where archontic forces were in part responsible for his actions and at least one of his purported endings - the crucifixion.

    Another set of questions relates to those who knew Jesus, his disciples, his family and others he encountered. Could they have been influenced by archontic forces? Could those who were behind the canonization of the Biblical texts been influenced by archontic forces? Could Jesus have been an enlightened master that still met his match? The legend says he died a horrific death.

    There are in fact accounts that Jesus was not crucified at all and lived out a long life and eventually died in India - http://www.tombofjesus.com/

    It is accepted by historians that the first gospel was likely not written until 70AD and the others well after the end of the first century. There are a few additional non-Biblical references to Jesus and then we have the Nag Hammadi library which contains other “gospels.” In fact, the Gospel of Thomas is actually considered to be the oldest gospel by many researchers.

    And now I will express the various questions and possibilities I have about Jesus.

    I lean to the likelihood that the man who became the Jesus of the Bible (and mentioned in other writings) did in fact live.

    Who this man was is well considered in the Wikipedia link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sc...shua_ben_Yosef

    Quote This page refers to Yehoshua ben Yosef, using critical analysis of the evidence available before the Roman Catholic Church approved the doctrines of Pauline Christianity. For information on the Christian messianic figure, see Jesus Christ.”

    Yehoshua (ben Yosef), from the Hebrew or Aramaic: ישוע, variously translated as Yeshu, Yeshua or Yehoshua, considered by some to be a Jewish patriot, martyr and heir to the title "King Of The Jews" through the royal line of Galilee. He is seen by others as a revolutionary agitator to the Roman-endorsed Sadducee rule in David, part of the Roman province of Iudaea. There are also those who doubt the existence of such a man altogether.

    Existence vs. non-existence

    Any responsible coverage of this topic should begin with the caveat that not all scholars believe in the existence of this particular 1st Century Jew known as Yehoshua or Yeshua. The existence of a man known to the English-speaking world as Jesus is accepted by two major world religions, Christianity and Islam, based on their respective scriptures, the Bible and the Qur'an. However, the true historicity of "Jesus" is difficult to determine, as few reliable records of his life exist. While Christianity considers their Jesus to be the Christ (Messiah) and Son of God and Islam views him as a prophet, secular historians and most other world religions (including Judaism) tend to regard him as an ordinary human, perhaps even a rebellious rabbi in first century AD Israel, and, as mentioned earlier, a few dispute whether he ever existed.

    The few detailed accounts of Yehoshua's life from the time period describe various remarkable events and miracles, including virgin birth and resurrection. These events are believed to have literally happened by many Christians, but most non-Christians and even some liberal Christians do not believe that these events actually occurred, based partly on the general principle that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and partly on a perceived lack of evidence from more neutral sources.

    Many scholars see the Biblical narrative of Yehoshua's life as a mythologized account of a historical figure's life, aimed at winning new converts rather than existing as a neutral historical record. The difficulty of distinguishing which parts of the man's life are historical and which belong to Christian mythology is one of the main obstacles for Biblical historians. Even accurate accounts of events in Yehoshua's life may have changed in subtle ways during retellings. Others may have been exaggerated on purpose, and some may even have been entirely new events, possibly reinterpreted from older stories; virgin births and sacrifice were common features of Pagan godmen myths, such as Osiris-Dionysus.

    Although the existence of a historical figure named "Jesus" is universally accepted by Christians and Muslims, there is a school of thought, called mythological school, which sees "Jesus" as a later interpolation into one of the mystery religions which resemble Christianity. This theory is commonly known as the Jesus Myth, and is based upon the supposition that Yehoshua did not exist. Others see the apparent relationship between Gnosticism and Christianity as being based on an historical figure acting as the focal point for the linking of Jewish religious traditions and political history with a mystery religion, a syncretism—ultimately more popular among Gentiles than Jews—which would become Christianity.

    It must also be pointed out that each reader must determine what weight to give interpretations alternative to the prevailing mainstream view. Having said that, remember that amateurs to the field of history generally and New Testament history in particular should consider the comments of Richard Carrier, co-founder and former editor-in-chief of the Secular Web[1], made on their discussion board:

    Amateurs often disregard the crucial importance of field-familiarity, i.e. that one must have a long and deep acquaintance with a particular time and culture in order to make reliable judgments about the probable and improbable, the expected and unexpected, and all the other background assumptions necessary to understanding the significance of any particular fact or claim--in short, one must be cognizant not merely of the literary context of a statement, but its entire socio-historical context as well. And that is no easy thing to achieve.

    The rest of this article will be based on the supposition that Yehoshua ben Yosef did exist, and was a figure who laid the basis for—and yet was somewhat different than—the Jesus Christ of canonical Christian literature.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    What fascinates me is the timing of Houman’s post on May 20th on the jesus the man / JESUS the Archon thread – post # 93 with the information regarding Zoroastrianism. If there is truth to this information, then it's possible that Jesus was not necessarily a Jewish teacher from Galilee as has been commonly accepted.

    If Darrick T. Evenson is correct –
    http://zoroastrian.angelfire.com/

    Evenson puts forth that Jesus was the first of three male immortals (of the 6 Amenta Spentas (“Sparks” created by the Supreme Being Ahura Mazda)) - Sayoshants ("Saviors") predicted to come in the future by Zoroaster through his lineage by the way. The other three Sparks were to be females. In the case of Jesus, his mother was the female Spark and was supposed to be a virgin. The Spark behind the incarnation of Jesus was named Vohu Manah and was the being who appeared to Zoroaster originally and was considered to be the Son of Ahura Mazda.

    Surely this is starting to sound familiar, yes?

    So the theme behind the Zorostrian accepted history suggests Jesus to have possibly been one of three male saviors predicted to come some time in the future by Zoroaster who lived around the 18th century B.C.E. In addition, this same immortal being, Vohu Manah was the being who “appeared to” Zoroaster in 1737 B.C.E.

    That would make the Jesus of year zero the second coming of Vohu Manah.

    Now with the above considerations in mind, what type of being could have appeared to Zoroaster?

    Could that being have been an extra-dimensional being?

    Could that extra-dimensional being have actually incarnated to be our Jesus?

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Hey mate,

    This is a nice thread.

    In my opinion, if the character we know as Jesus did exist and performed all amazing things we are told, I believe Jesus himself couldn´t be 100% human.

    Humans can´t walk on water. Human´s can´t magically heal serious diseases. Humans can´t resurrect the dead.

    So, if the story we´re told is indeed the truth, I think he was not only assisted by extra-terrestrials/extra-dimensional beings; I believe he might have been one of them indeed.

    Cheers,

    Raf.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    ... Humans can´t walk on water. Human´s can´t magically heal serious diseases. Humans can´t resurrect the dead...
    This is only true if one believes he/she is only "human".

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    This sounds like an interesting and plausible hypothesis!

    If we agree with the biblical account of the visitation of the Virgin Mary by the 'angel', resulting in her becoming 'miraculously' with child, then this too raises questions of inter dimensional (or 'alien'?) encounter.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Hey mate,

    This is a nice thread.

    In my opinion, if the character we know as Jesus did exist and performed all amazing things we are told, I believe Jesus himself couldn´t be 100% human.

    Humans can´t walk on water. Human´s can´t magically heal serious diseases. Humans can´t resurrect the dead.

    So, if the story we´re told is indeed the truth, I think he was not only assisted by extra-terrestrials/extra-dimensional beings; I believe he might have been one of them indeed.

    Cheers,

    Raf.
    and what is interesting to consider is exactly what Houman brought forth in post #93 in that other jesus the man / JESUS the Archon thread... that the Zoroastrian's believe that the ED that appeared to Zoroaster incarnated as Jesus. Now, I am not saying I believe that but the point is that this recurring theme of miracle workers, visions of "angels" or other super natural beings and then in Houman's Ra-Horus thread there's dozens of examples of stories involving deamns actually materializing...

    we have the real world the average Joe lives in and the average Joe never sees any of this stuff, yet on the fringes of this "real world" we have the few who have had experiences on one or both ends of this spectrum - where they saw angels or good aliens and/or where they saw demons or bad aliens...

    It begs the question, could ANY of them really be good? It is a very real question.

    And if the answer perhaps is NO... then all these messiahs may simply be primary victims of these forces, their direct followers (disciples, what have you) may be a secondary target level and the rest of us the juiciest targets of em all... the innocent.

    It is this question I want people to weigh in on. Please.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Who was Jesus the Christ according to Edgar Cayce: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen049.html
    Unity Consciousness
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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    We need data. As Sherlock Holmes would say "I cannot make bricks without clay".

    I suggest that for Christianity to have erupted onto the world stage as a religion that grew, and flourished despite the events and people that might have extinguished it (take a bow, St. Paul), it seems bordering on the absurd to suggest that Jesus was not a historical figure, even though there is no firm firsthand evidence of a carpenter's son turned itinerant rabbi.

    To me, the possibility of St.Issa of India presents a strong support for the idea that there is a great deal more to be known about Jesus than we can be certain of at present.

    One extra-biblical source which I suggest for consideration is the Urantia papers which give a very detailed picture of someone who certainly fits closely the character of the man described in the gospels. The question of the possible human authorship of the Urantia papers should also be considered carefully in weighing any evidence gleaned from that source although it is my opinion that the styles as well as the vocabulary of the various papers would suggest the author was a twentieth century combination of Shakespeare, Marlowe and Bacon unless the papers were genuinely of supernatural origin.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)

    ... Humans can´t walk on water. Human´s can´t magically heal serious diseases. Humans can´t resurrect the dead...
    This is only true if one believes he/she is only "human".

    And great point here - yes... humans CAN... and this leads me to another question, why have so many of the magicians alive today gone to satanism, demonology, animal/human sacrifice, negative intentional magical practice?

    And why have the John Changs who have been involved with secret societies that teach these types of healing methodologies been castigated for going public by their human society members as well as the entities they say they communicate with and are also their teachers who are not of this world as happened with John Chang?

    This is why I have the very question I posed in post # 7 Clearly Chang's intentions in allowing a filmed demo to be made were completely and totally benevolent. He wanted to demostrate Qi Gong healing technology and yet he was told he did very, very wrong by these supposed "good" entities and never went public again.

    And this technology can be performed by anyone - we all have the ability.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by Lettherebelight (here)
    This sounds like an interesting and plausible hypothesis!

    If we agree with the biblical account of the visitation of the Virgin Mary by the 'angel', resulting in her becoming 'miraculously' with child, then this too raises questions of inter dimensional (or 'alien'?) encounter.
    Exactly - and in Houman's Horus-Ra thread he has several examples where entities were called forth to create "nephelim" beings - hybrid ED/human beings. And when you consider all the breeding over the millenia on this planet, we are all likely hybrids and hybrids of hybrids and who knows. If we go a step further and look at the star-seed myth, perhaps there may be more reality to what that is than pure hypothesis. And then why not soul exchanges and walk-ins, etc.

    Some have the view we are ALL EDs to some extent just to incarnate at all.

    The possibilities are so amazing... take prisons like religion out of the mix, free the mind to consider the possibilities, shed the fear and explore. What color pill is that one? Green? Give me one please... give me two!

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by truthseekerdan (here)
    Who was Jesus the Christ according to Edgar Cayce: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen049.html
    This is also my same opinion... it was just Gnosticism (as there was no Christianity until way after Jesus was long gone).

    The Jesus guy Cayce refers to would have been exposed to the various mystery schools in Egypt, Persia and India. I know folks who believe that about Jesus. No wonder Jesus may have said the things found in the Gospel of Thomas for example - absolutely gnostic type teachings and mystery school teachings.

    But having said all that, there have been many many folks throughout the history of humanity that have been exposed to mystery school teachings - most get so out of the dualistic nature of life they don't jump into the fray. Perhaps that's why the bad guys seem to take control is because the good guys just don't care in entering the world of struggle. Easier done in the past - to escape the tyranny of the world. Not so easy in our modern era and this is why we don't need to look to those of the past to be any example - just be the you you are and if that means stirring up the &^%$, then stir it up.

    The part about Jesus being the reincarnation of Adam and Mary being the reincarnation of Eve is understandable given Cayce's fundamentalist foundation. We all try to interpret reality based on another interpreted reality, but in so doing, he places himself again inside a box. What about all the poor people that lived after Adam and before Jesus? What a nice God we got. I try not to buy into anything... I cannot accept a metaphor regarding spirit and matter (and a lesson in the metaphor) would have to be played out and "forgiven" by some sacrificial event. Ridiculous.

    And this goes back to the sacrificial god/priest/king theme perpetuated by some secret societies, the same ones who hold within their current ranks our lovely (perhaps not all) world leaders. I smell the demiurge and the archons.
    Last edited by Chester; 22nd May 2012 at 00:49.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    More on Cayce's take on Jesus - and then a comment by the scholars. The scholars don't believe Jesus could have been an Essene because "the Essenes wouldn't have approved of Jesus' bending of the moral standards such as associating himself with prostitutes and tax collectors."

    Well wasn't Jesus supposedly someone who didn't seem to afraid of any authority? Couldn't he have given the bird to the Essene priest class and said, "I'm gonna go hang out with some folks who might be benefited by what i might have to say." Wouldn't surprise me at all.

    But what may really blow some minds is that I know of some societies where the following is talked about. Remember, i do not attach to anything... don't think I believe this but it is said that Jesus broke a very critical rule in baptism. Jesus would baptize people in still water, like ponds, etc. That was a big no no. John the Baptist was performing baptisms the "correct" way which was done in flowing water like streams and rivers. A rivalry erupted between the two groups and someone in Jesus' group turned in John the Baptist to the authorities who had been looking for him because he was a threat (and not the silly story about Salome). Realize at that time, all but the Sadducees were looking for a "Savior" to come. John the Baptist was leading the "savior" poll at the time. Jesus's group wanted him out of the way.

    Now again, I don't believe that nor believe hardly anything... but this is the sort of information being batted around in some of the secret societies.

    Anyhow - just the idea of a savior, that anybody would be the child of some creator who created other beings that placed some of creation's beings in a situation where they needed to be saved from the other of creation's beings is no creator of mine... but that's just opinion.

    That we have massive evidence today of alien abduction and contactee situations where respectable folks like Dr, Malanga have studied hundreds of cases over the years and has found tremendous consistencies in these cases where one of the favorite programs of the offending alien groups is the installation of the messiah / savior complex - that to me is something real, something I can trust, and when i look at what the savior religions have done for this planet, the dots really start to connect.
    Last edited by Chester; 22nd May 2012 at 03:56.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote This is why I have the very question I posed in post # 7 Clearly Chang's intentions in allowing a filmed demo to be made were completely and totally benevolent. He wanted to demostrate Qi Gong healing technology and yet he was told he did very, very wrong by these supposed "good" entities and never went public again.
    john chang was only interested in dangling the carrot in front of your eyes, to wake people up. He was not interested in giving a how to guide on becoming a xian. there is a line in one of the books written about him that states he felt that if this information was made publicly available, we would destroy civilization once again like we once did in Atlantis. This has been the argument used by the white lodges to keep esoteric knowledge hidden from the masses for their own good. This attitude has slowly started to change over the last 100 years.

    Quote And why have the John Changs who have been involved with secret societies that teach these types of healing methodologies been castigated for going public by their human society members as well as the entities they say they communicate with and are also their teachers who are not of this world as happened with John Chang?
    To say john chang is part of a asian secret society equivalent to the Illuminati is not accurate. He is the latest link in the chain of a long line of high level internal arts practitioners. he has a karmic link with his fore-bearers and his actions have a effect on the whole line of masters associated with his lineage.
    "You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..."
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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by bearcow (here)
    Quote This is why I have the very question I posed in post # 7 Clearly Chang's intentions in allowing a filmed demo to be made were completely and totally benevolent. He wanted to demostrate Qi Gong healing technology and yet he was told he did very, very wrong by these supposed "good" entities and never went public again.
    john chang was only interested in dangling the carrot in front of your eyes, to wake people up. He was not interested in giving a how to guide on becoming a xian. there is a line in one of the books written about him that states he felt that if this information was made publicly available, we would destroy civilization once again like we once did in Atlantis. This has been the argument used by the white lodges to keep esoteric knowledge hidden from the masses for their own good. This attitude has slowly started to change over the last 100 years.

    Quote And why have the John Changs who have been involved with secret societies that teach these types of healing methodologies been castigated for going public by their human society members as well as the entities they say they communicate with and are also their teachers who are not of this world as happened with John Chang?
    To say john chang is part of a asian secret society equivalent to the Illuminati is not accurate. He is the latest link in the chain of a long line of high level internal arts practitioners. he has a karmic link with his fore-bearers and his actions have a effect on the whole line of masters associated with his lineage.
    Hi bearcow - there was zero in what I said that suggested the society which John Chang was trained by was in any way an Illuminati type society, you read into what I said incorrectly. He stated that his spiritual guide was not happy with what he did and thus Chang vowed never to do it again. I respect him for both demonstrating his talent as well as his decision not to do it again. We all have free will.

    What I do not respect is this years and years of secrecy where we are waiting for some silly planetary positioning to harken in some new age that now makes it alright to go public with all this - things that if went public en mass could potentially and rapidly change our world for the better. It seems these lovely guides are simply playing some game that will never end and we keep buying into it.

    So each day we wait for Dec 21, 2012 (or whatever special date the clowns will come up with when there's zero noticeable change on December 22) another 30,000 children die each day needlessly from starvation, or another thousand children go missing to be fed to the alien/demon gods of some of our world leaders or more innocents can be blown away by psychotic madmen who crack up in Afghanistan and on and on.

    That was my point - when is humanity just going to stand up for itself? When are we going to access the wisdom within instead of constantly seeking wisdom from without even if it is spirit gods and we are from special lineages that have accepted the karma program?

    One can instantly vanish any karma one may think one and their lineage possess if one wants to, all one has to do is shed the programming.

    Read your own quote from Dr. Zuess... you are your own master.
    Last edited by Chester; 23rd May 2012 at 15:10.

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    United States Avalon Member bearcow's Avatar
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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote One can instantly vanish any karma one may think one and their lineage possess if one wants to, all one has to do is shed the programming.
    just some food for thought, where does the real you end and the programming begin. And who is it that programed you?

    The archons?
    The government?
    your parents?
    TV?
    the food you eat?
    The members of this forum?
    Yourself?

    perhaps "shedding your programing" is more difficult a task than anything john chang can do.
    "You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..."
    — Dr. Seuss

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    United States Avalon Member Chester's Avatar
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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by bearcow (here)
    Quote One can instantly vanish any karma one may think one and their lineage possess if one wants to, all one has to do is shed the programming.
    just some food for thought, where does the real you end and the programming begin. And who is it that programed you?

    The archons?
    The government?
    your parents?
    TV?
    the food you eat?
    The members of this forum?
    Yourself?

    perhaps "shedding your programing" is more difficult a task than anything john chang can do.
    I apologize - was amped up regarding many threads - and was disrespectful. I reacted because of the Illuminati comment which I hope you see I did not make.

    the real me is the me in the now that is honest, even if the honesty reveals I am BSing myself. I was being my real me in how I reacted and regret it came out attacking and a bit childish.

    Your point well taken and I hope you accept my apology.
    Last edited by Chester; 22nd May 2012 at 14:13.

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    I love what David Icke has to say about religion. You really need to understand the history of religion to see that Christianity is just a scam, just like all religions are.

    WE are the Gods. THEY are terrified that we will one day realize this, and their reign of terror will be over.







    Last edited by UnrealDreams; 22nd May 2012 at 06:23. Reason: add second video

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Great topic justoneman. I look forward to reading more!

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    Default Re: An exploration of Jesus, could he have been influenced by extra-dimensionals?

    Quote Posted by justoneman (here)
    Hi Folks – I am hoping to create an exploratory discussion of Jesus and do so with clear guidelines about what we should stick to in this thread. I request posters honor this request.
    i appriciate the effort trying to figure out Jesus

    but when we silence the immense number of testimonies about Him

    then it is like exploring the sun by locking oneself up in a cellar and reading about it


    i could spend my whole life

    wading through all of the highly divergent information about Jesus

    and die none the wiser


    as i see it Jesus is about to wrap up this age

    and so all will know who He is


    and then we can move on

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