Welcome to The Pub At the End of the Universe.

[Alekahn]

[Curt]

A truly great teacher.....

If more Gurus were like this, I would have one

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eexkcbjPuEY

[Borden]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by Borden (here)
Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

I cannot antagonize you. Only you can antagonize you.

I cannot cause you to believe that you've antagonized me. Only you can cause yourself to believe that you've antagonized me.

[another bob]

Posted by Alekahn;495236[ATTACH=CONFIG
16495[/ATTACH]

[Marie]

I am humbly stepping into my courage and posting in this awesome thread. I have been admiring the great conversation/experience going on here and I realize that my contribution might seem simplistic but I'm going to go ahead. I was personally drawn to something that Zebra said a while back which is…

“In this *mind drop* state, I feel abundantly simple and in total, unconditional acceptance of all that is. Which happens at the most unexpected moments and .. rarely happens. The most memorable moments for instance have been when I have connected as a mother to my children, joining with them for the first time after giving birth to feed them. And when I just sit back and listen and view others in their awesome selves focused on giving to each other. That puts me in a place of *all is well*”

For me, this is a beautiful expression and one I relate to. There is a simple place where I listen and gain perspective and I can see that there is so much going on, on different ‘levels’ and wow! I notice that even when I don’t relate to something that someone has said, it prompts an inner exploration to find what does feel right for me. So I see the catalysts everywhere and the perfection in that. There have been many times when others have tried to ‘assist’ me and though I am beyond what they are conveying, at times I can be somewhat quiet because I'm simply reading and appreciating their genuine intention to assist. I, mySelf, drive my 'vehicle'.

I have often felt ‘handicapped’ at not being knowledgeable or experienced with various ‘religious’ practices in terms of contributing to some discussions. In reality, I don’t believe it is a handicap at all - it has been my choice - but really a gift because it allows me to feel my way through the myriad of ‘information’ I run across, picking and choosing what feels right for me. I have personally been drawn to staying tethered to the orientation of ‘the child’ which is how we came into this world – open, few to no-thoughts, feeling-oriented, spontaneous. This space, to me, is where my intuition lives and breathes and a sense of joyous 'wonder'. Do I stay here? No but I’d like to . Life pulls me in and I struggle often with mental gymnastics that get me caught in loops. I am not advocating no-mind really, but more of a base of non-attachment so that openness and fluidity of thought and intuition is present. We are here to create experiences and we create as we go. Just a few thoughts I'm having at the moment...

I like to believe ‘anything is possible’ and the idea of focusing more on what I want to experience.

This is really a big thank you pub patrons for stimulating my ongoing explorations and learning and inspiring the well-spring within… I am also an INFP

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8rWY3xt5N6c

[Swan]

I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door

[Debra]

Posted by Swan (here)
I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door

Come back soon, Swan. You have a beautiful way with words, what an introduction to your good self.

[Debra]

Posted by Marie (here)
I am humbly stepping into my courage and posting in this awesome thread. I have been admiring the great conversation/experience going on here and I realize that my contribution might seem simplistic but I'm going to go ahead. ...

I like to believe ‘anything is possible’ and the idea of focusing more on what I want to experience.

This is really a big thank you pub patrons for stimulating my ongoing explorations and learning and inspiring the well-spring within… I am also an INFP

Marie, express, express - please. All is possible. Inspiration leads to many interesting manifestations. Hope you share more here!

[Calz]

Posted by Swan (here)
I am one of the shy, silent lurkers.

I found Avalon shortly before the Pub opened. I have been a regular ever since: Feeling so much at home.

Borden, Songs, Another Bob, Purple Lama, Chinaski, White Crow Black Deer - you have touched my heart.
Calz Avaretard - you have made me laugh - so often!

This place is - heart opening.

My personal experience of No Mind is Bliss. Connection. As if I finally experience life.

But I am thrilled to hear of others experiences. Actually, I am in awe. I don´t have the words. I hope I can infuse what I feel in the spaces in between.

slips out the back door

Thank you so much for sharing that Swan

I lurked for a long time before actually joining Avalon. You might consider posting more often. If you didn't already have an open heart you would not recognize how special this little gathering is.

You would fit right in

[songsfortheotherkind]

One of the thing that my law studies put me onto was the fascinatingly hideous way that language is contorted in the legal realm: nothing is what it appears to be, a word that in ordinary speech is innocent and clear becomes the carrier of a contortion that can send an individual to prison for a very long time. Lawyers are fully aware of this, and they are aware that ordinary individuals are utterly *unaware* of this language; they know that an individual is contracting into something that they really don't understand, and lawyers are sworn to both uphold the secrecy about these 'tortious conversions' (which means, essentially, twisted contracts) *and* are sworn to uphold the interests of the court, not their client- so when the courts are run by corruption, the court's agents become the duly sworn and obedient carriers of intentional corruption and deception.

The entire system we are surrounded by functions on the same deception and double speak: hidden languages that are used to manipulate and construe others into corners, prisons (real and internal), subjection, submission. It's the language construct that grooms the individual to BE dominated, subjected, manipulated, helpless, cut off from their essence like the child victims of the adult agenda in the Golden Compass and unable to navigate their own autonomy.

The Golden Compass is a brilliant book for getting clear on just what the true intention is of those who promote heteronomy (the subjection to an external authority of any kind) and why that is: interestingly, it isn't until right at the very end of those books that the virus rears its ugly little head and delivers the nasty sting. Until then, it's a brilliant mirror and even in the stinging is also a brilliant mirror, just of a different kind.

There is a subtle manipulation of the use of language that goes on with those who are coming from a hidden agenda. I learned this from my long and intimate associations with psychological/emotional/physical abusers of various colors. I began to observe an interesting pattern with abusers and the use of language to achieve their aims and agendas, which have nothing whatsoever to do with connection, a genuine and sincere interest in the other, a willingness to own their own crap, an honesty about their own crap: no, the agenda of an abuser is much different than this. It's about domination and maintaining a position of power over the one their efforts are being targeted at.

There's a brilliant book by Patricia Evans, “The Verbally Abusive Relationship – How to recognise it and how to respond” that I discovered some years after I'd begun to map the vicious, devious and manipulative way abusers use language. This book helped me to understand language patterns that I had picked up from the abusers in my life and also how this language was being pointed at me by my then partner. It helped me understand the many ways that seemingly straightforward verbal communications were being turned into painful quagmires and bewildering full artillery assaults. The elements that are pertinent to what I'm crafting in this post are the ones I'm going to quote, but if you're interested go here http://married2mrmean.wordpress.com/...-verbal-abuse/ to discover more.

There is a world of difference between the blunt instrument abuse of the not very intelligent and the subtle, many tentacled abuse of the highly intelligent and aware: think the difference between the common street thug and Hannibal Lector.



The psychological Hannibals aren't interested in the easy targets; they might engage them in passing but it's only on the way to their real focus- there's no victory in kicking a puppy. The real attraction lies in the signal that is strong, and intelligent in itself; that's where particular types of abusers are going to be attracted to. The Hannibals know masterfully how to insert themselves into the environments they stalk; they are the charming and attentive man at the beginning of the relationship, a listener, witty, kind, helpful.

In the realm of abuse psychology, this is called grooming. All abusers do it, it's one of the ways that they identify themselves over time, to the observant eye. They go into their chosen realm, be it a relationship with an individual, a group, an organisation or an entire country, and they're playing the part. They all know how to do it because it's part of their skillset that supports their agenda. It's the mild mannered exterior of the serial killer living quietly in an unsuspecting suburban setting, nodding to the neighbours with a slightly shy and awkward smile, the boy next door patting the dog and calling everyone 'ma'am'; it's the cultured and urbane exterior of an internally hissing and slitherin' monstrous nature that seeks to consume others for the sake of nothing more than self pleasure.

Of the fifteen markers mentioned in the link I've posted, there are some specifics I'd like to have a closer look at. I'm going to change the words so that the idea of 'relationship' is broader and I don't use the word 'victim'.

2. COUNTERING -
As a category of verbal abuse, countering is one of the most destructive in a relationship because it prevents all possibility of discussion, it consistently denies the [other]’s reality and it prevents the one from knowing what the other thinks about anything.

An abuser who constantly counters seems only to think the opposite of [the other]. If she (or he) says anything directly or expresses thoughts on something, the abuser will say it is the opposite. What he is really saying is “No, that’s not the way it is” even about [the other's] most personal experience of something.

This shows up in interesting ways that are connected to the next one, discounting.

3. DISCOUNTING-
Discounting denies the reality and experience of the [other] and is extremely destructive. The verbal abuser discounts the other's experience and feelings as if they were worth nothing. He will say something that gives the message “Your feeling and experiences are wrong, they are worth nothing.” Such as – “You’re making a big deal out of nothing, you always jump to conclusions, you can’t take a joke, you don’t know what you’re talking about, you take everything the wrong way.”

In combination, these two are potent. When the abuser is using intellectualisation as a further platform for discounting and countering, they can cloud the situation in a storm of noise that is intended to confuse and silence the other. The idea is never true co-creation, connection, genuine heartspace and communication- it's about the agenda of the abuser.

In a forum such as this, abusers are going to reveal themselves through discounting words that either blatantly or more insidiously discount the reality of the other as being in some way less than the position of the abuser; they point out the 'reality' of the other's experience, they demonstrate how it's *really* this inferior thing here, that the abuser has the 'true' knowledge and understanding while the other is just someone in need of some kind of enlightenment that, funnily enough, the abuser can provide and is going to do so, whether such 'enlightenment' is requested or not.

7. JUDGING AND CRITICISING -
The verbal abuser may judge the other and then express his judgement in a critical way. If the other objects, the abuser may tell her that he is just pointing out something to be helpful, when in reality he may be expressing his lack of acceptance of her.

Most verbal abuse carries a judgmental tone.

Statements which begin with “The trouble with you is…” are judgmental, critical and abusive.
Statements which begin with “Your problem is….” are judgmental, critical and abusive.
Critical “stories” about your mistakes or actual lies about you which embarrass you in front of others are abusive.

'Helpful' comments designed to 'correct' thinking, particularly when such advice has not been requested, are abusive. Continuing to blanket a perspective at any individual who has specifically requested that such perspective be left out of the equation is abusive behaviour. These behaviours come from a mind of molasses designed to crabpot others back into the line the abuser thinks others should be in- subjected to the abuser's world view. Every time a superior position is taken, the individual is revealing their true nature and intention, which in turn reveals them to be nothing more than an obedient servant of the viral program of hierarchy, heteronomy and domination.

It's everywhere around us. It's one of the reasons language transformation tools such as Non-Violent Communication (NVC), compassionate communication and others have been created; there is the growing understanding that within the mechanisms of language as its currently used, the seeds of domination, control, subjugation and other abusive patterns are carried. These new ways of communication are a response designed to explore the possibility of a language that is empowering and honoring of the sui generis of all Beings, giving each individual the tools necessary for the psychological aikido one needs to send aside the distortions of abusers and the virus.

As a lover of the sui generis, I am also a lover of truly powerful and clear language that allows no space for language to be used to deny or distort the Being and expression of another. When an individual brings that sort of interaction into a space, they are flagging their true intention, agenda and purpose. Sui generis language seeks to honor the experience of *all* Beings, to create bridges wherever possible, to create the space where seven billion different perspectives are not a cause for conflict- actually, the space of infinite possibility manifesting itself constantly without there being any conflict necessary- that's what I'm interested in and what the majority here at the Pub are interested in.

Any use of language that, covertly or overtly, reveals a negative intention and purpose towards another, or that demonstrates the hallmarks of abusive patterns, is a way that the speaker reveals what truly moves inside.

Sometimes it's impossible, when you know the abuser style and aren't vulnerable to it, to not have a sense of mischief...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=s9oeG_rN8eY

and that only goes so far.

The Pub was established as a haven from dogma. Those who insist on bringing dogma, despite being politely asked not to, reveal themselves to be agents of a different kind. There's only so long that the grooming can go on- eventually, the itch will need to be scratched- the thing that abusers don't quite get is that they are their own fleas, so they go questing for those to consume because they know they'll usually find them.

Sometimes, though, they wander into the wrong pub. They confuse a willingness to build bridges with a willingness to tolerate abuse. They confuse openness with gullibility. They confuse an obviously motley looking crew with a stupid motley looking crew. Even Hannibal eventually is undone by his own hunger. All abusers are because they serve their purpose and become redundant.

Sui generis level awareness. The best flea bomb in town.

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

Posted by Borden (here)
Why is it that people like Bob and Carmody feel they can insult others here with no comeback?

Oh, it's because they apparently can.

They've been doing it subtly and not so subtly.

If you two want to talk about your own experiences, explorations and even passionate beliefs that's fine with me, no matter how they may fly in the face of anyone else's, and no matter how interesting or otherwise I may personally find them. We can all do that here. But that's not quite all you've been doing, is it, lads?

As for the teaching part? Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

Replace the spark plug and clean the air filter. Usually works for me.

[Playdo of Ataraxas]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_yHrEykOGpo

Monkey gone to heaven, eh?

[Calz]

Posted by Playdo of Ataraxas (here)

Posted by Borden (here)

Well if either of you guys knows how to fix the starter on a lawn-mower you might be of some use to me. Otherwise? Not so much.

Replace the spark plug and clean the air filter. Usually works for me.

Need to think outside dah box there peeps ...

[modwiz]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
One of the thing that my law studies put me onto was the fascinatingly hideous way that language is contorted in the legal realm: nothing is what it appears to be, a word that in ordinary speech is innocent and clear becomes the carrier of a contortion that can send an individual to prison for a very long time. Lawyers are fully aware of this, and they are aware that ordinary individuals are utterly *unaware* of this language; they know that an individual is contracting into something that they really don't understand, and lawyers are sworn to both uphold the secrecy about these 'tortious conversions' (which means, essentially, twisted contracts) *and* are sworn to uphold the interests of the court, not their client- so when the courts are run by corruption, the court's agents become the duly sworn and obedient carriers of intentional corruption and deception.

The entire system we are surrounded by functions on the same deception and double speak: hidden languages that are used to manipulate and construe others into corners, prisons (real and internal), subjection, submission. It's the language construct that grooms the individual to BE dominated, subjected, manipulated, helpless, cut off from their essence..........

All law other than common law is built on this weasel worded bedrock. The bars of our prison are built with these words and the real wardens are not so much the lawyers and judges, but the masses who take it seriously instead of laughing them out of existence. The Second Amendment allows for such humor.

You have offered a huge contribution in these few words, Songs. The importance of understanding this cannot be overestimated. Grokking this concept causes the walls of the prison to crack and the virus to tremble.

[Debra]

Borden, Cerridwen, Songs, Whitecrowblackdeer, Another Bob, Calz

My timing sucks but I wish to thank you for the acknowledgement of my recent post. All of you. Your responses were so unexpected.

Honestly, I feel very clunky when I write, as I do mostly in life. I don´t think I am the only one with this special condition. A result of this for me, tells me something. When the urge to say something comes from a place of quiet surrender within, then know for yourself that it must be coming from the heart. Without connection to this place, it´s a mind job trying to save itself. In that state, I am not waving, I´m drowning.

My reminder for the day: stay true to yourself, tell it like it is. This is what I see, what I hear, what I think, what I feel. Speak for yourself only, and let others do the same. Any more, is not necessary.

Oh, except one thing: keep looking for that smile - the lighter side, is fruitfully beautiful



As the occasional *weekend* buddhist, I love this one.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by modwiz (here)
All law other than common law is built on this weasel worded bedrock. The bars of our prison are built with these words and the real wardens are not so much the lawyers and judges, but the masses who take it seriously instead of laughing them out of existence. The Second Amendment allows for such humor.

You have offered a huge contribution in these few words, Songs. The importance of understanding this cannot be overestimated. Grokking this concept causes the walls of the prison to crack and the virus to tremble.

Thank you for that.

As further sharing of my perspective, I do not even support the common law, which is based on the ancient concept of 'an eye for an eye'. Recently I was researching something on the internet and came across an image that horrified me so much I was stopped in my tracks. At first I thought I was seeing a medical procedure that was being undertaken for the sake of the individual it was being done to. I was utterly wrong.

What I was actually looking at was a picture of a man who was awake and aware, but numbed, while one of his eyes was being removed by a doctor carrying out a court order. The court is Islamic. The punishment was under the common (or 'god's law) law that Islam- and most fundamentalist religions- operate under. In this case the man was losing only one eye. In many other cases both eyes are removed.

The photo was taken last year.

I have no illusions that anything other embracing the principles of sui generis of ALL Beings *and* DO NO HARM will result in the peace that many say they seek. Until we clean up our language, let our 'yes mean yes, no mean no' and speak our truth with one another, the virus will spread. It is my deepest and sincerest intention to be a vehicle for virus antidote, however that manifests. My law studies have made it abundantly clear to me that *any* system of external authority, be it religious, educational, government, philosophy, parental, law or in one individual thinking they are superior to another for *any* reason, is nothing but a carrier of the virus and its dead nature. All courts, lawyers, solicitors and law systems speak a corrupt and self serving language. So does religion.

All Beings are born with their own unique signal. As individuals we're gifted the unique opportunity of Shining towards one another in recognition and celebration of that unique signal, to dance co-creatively with one another, to evolve the Life.

Or, the individual can choose something far less interesting. It's certainly a time of choosing, these days- weasel words with no life in them, or the language of Life and Essence that springs from the very core of every sui generis Being...

[Calz]

Posted by Zebra (here)

Honestly, I feel very clunky when I write ...

Zebra biscuits ...

You write beautifully not only here but when you bravely venture out into the wilderness ...

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Zebra (here)
Honestly, I feel very clunky when I write, as I do mostly in life. I don´t think I am the only one with this special condition.

I think pretty much everything I write, in terms of its technical skill, is rubbish. I've destroyed more near completed novels and film scripts, poetry, prose and essays than I care to think about. It is a lot. I try not to do that these days, knowing my harsh internal critic is full of sh!t. I love your thoughtful, gentle writing- I look at it and feel like my own is gauche and gangly teenager by comparison, with some stalking and sword bearing sweaty little wild haired gnomish woman thrown in for good measure. *grins* It's why I'm into life Art- so many amazing works to choose from.

My reminder for the day: stay true to yourself, tell it like it is. This is what I see, what I hear, what I think, what I feel. Speak for yourself only, and let others do the same. Any more, is not necessary.

stay true to Self- it's a gorgeous way of Being.

Oh, except one thing: keep looking for that smile - the lighter side, is fruitfully beautiful

They truly are- it's one of the reasons I love so many Beings here at the Pub, the amount of times I've sat at the computer screen and laughed until my sides are sore. Borden in conversation has on many occasions made me laugh until I've literally fallen off my chair, CurtisW has made me spit my tea all over the computer screen and spend the next few minutes choking and laughing simultaneously. Calz is a blue gem all of his own. Lama is the purple gem. What good is a band of superbeings if none of them has any sense of humour about it? Come on- they wear their undies on the *outside*, ffs...

If I could, I'd send you avocadoes still warm from the sun, and pawpaws picked fresh that morning, the sweetest mandarins ever from the 30 year old tree in my backyard and the smell of the sea when the whales are just coming in.

[Debra]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
If I could, I'd send you avocadoes still warm from the sun, and pawpaws picked fresh that morning, the sweetest mandarins ever from the 30 year old tree in my backyard and the smell of the sea when the whales are just coming in.

Thank you Songs .. it´s gift time .. synchronizing my vision board

[songsfortheotherkind]

Hmm, now what shall I do next...


or do I really mean who...