The Bible

[starninja]

Posted by SKIBADABOMSKI (here)
Y'know RedeZra, it's characters like you that push more and more people away from christianity. Your narrow minded views just prove your warped. It puts people off even contemplating the thought of holding a belief in a religion.

Hehehe…..I am afraid that it is RedeZra’s intention. I have noticed that kind of behavior on David Icke forum……...maybe they are twin.

On a serious note, it would be foolish to even think that The Bible hasn't been changed over the years. I have found out one “little” change when I was looking at Eosphorus (Dawn-Bringer) and Hesperus (Evening-star) myth in Greek mythology. Lucifer disappeared from New International Version, English Standard Version, or New Living Translation.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14: 12
( from King James Version)

How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
Isaiah 14: 12
New International Version, 1984

How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
Isaiah 14: 12
(from English Standard Version)

How you are fallen from heaven,
O shining star, son of the morning!
You have been thrown down to the earth,
you who destroyed the nations of the world.
Isaiah 14: 12
( from New Living Translation 2007)

More versions http://bible.cc/isaiah/14-12.htm

[RedeZra]

Posted by starninja (here)
Hehehe…..I am afraid that it is RedeZra’s intention. I have noticed that kind of behavior on David Icke forum……...maybe they are twin.

On a serious note, it would be foolish to even think that The Bible hasn't been changed over the years. I have found out one “little” change when I was looking at Eosphorus (Dawn-Bringer) and Hesperus (Evening-star) myth in Greek mythology. Lucifer disappeared from New International Version, English Standard Version, or New Living Translation.

i'm just pointing to Jesus


after all the Apostles didn't have bibles

but Jesus sent them the Holy spirit

to give them power and guide them


we need the Holy spirit friends

so God can guide and guard us


Who will give us this Spirit of God ?

[starninja]

LOL! You will not give up. You should get a special recognition for your determination. But don’t expect that I will be engaged in discussion. I did it once with your twin…….and I was cured. I prefer to study mythology and religions to sort out truth from lies.

[starninja]

RedeZra, I have a gift for you. Lucifer disappeared form the Bible but he is doing well in occult art.

Jean Delville - Belgian Occultist Symbolism I

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=54IeQWD7QHI

J. Delville Satans Treasures





Carlos Schwabe - Occultist Symbolism II

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=F_X4dCtMuFY

Carlos Schwabe, Illustration of Baudelaires" The Flowers of Evil "




Otto Greiner

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=0d1T9N83zz8

Otto Greiner, Devil Showing Woman to the People

[kreagle]

RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.

If you would rather converse about this in a PM, I understand, and am perfectly OK with that.

I await your reply.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

[Beren]

Someone said here that because of Red and such many are steered away from Christianity.
I disagree.

Hypocrites in clergy and elsewhere made ordinary people suffer in order to be Christian.
To be a Christian you have to die as old person of this world and be re born into new person of divine way.

This is maybe oversimplification but essence is here.

Either you die (thus transform) into light or you are not a Christian.
Being Christian is being holy man or woman.

Are you?
Or who is?

Anyone can be but will they?
Will they give up alluring call of lower dimensionality and polarities, fear and else?

Will they rise up to their divine nature and be one in Christ and God?

I will say that attacking Red here doesn't mean anything to anyone. Doesn't help the situation at all.
Rising up from our polarities will do good.

As per Kreagles's question I will add these words from Bible:
1 Corinthians 13

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Love

13 I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don’t have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge. I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don’t have love, I am nothing. 3 I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned.[a] But if I don’t have love, none of these things will help me.
4 Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn’t jealous. It doesn’t sing its own praises. It isn’t arrogant. 5 It isn’t rude. It doesn’t think about itself. It isn’t irritable. It doesn’t keep track of wrongs. 6 It isn’t happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. 7 Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up.
8Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. 9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.
13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.



Who does have an argument over this?
Straight from Bible ,from Paul whom is accused of being traitor of Christ and such...

Who has any reasonable argument against this?

[cloud9]

Posted by RedeZra (here)

Posted by cloud9 (here)
Red,
I admire your persistence and endurance... and your avatar is really cool!

If you don't mind my asking.... why did you join Avalon?

tnx and i've been around for quite some time in Avalon

i wonder why i'm not a mod yet ; )


and i've been learning by participation

but from a broad path i have been led down a narrow road


i did not begin as a Christian and i never been to church except twice

so i'm a bit shocked as well


but i know i'm on to something

important



God Bless

Red,
I'm really interested in your opinion about near death experiences, reincarnation, etc., but please give me YOUR opinion not a quote from the bible, also if possible, please give me a good paragraph not just short sentences.
My next questions are:
What other subjects do you like or study besides the bible?
Who is your favorite researcher, author? (Sereda, Dyer, Haramein, Horak, Farrell, etc.?
Have you ever read Conversations with God?
Thanks a lot!

[GCS1103]

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by GCS1103 (here)
None of us here knows the ultimate truth by virtue of the fact that we are still here.

Except Red. He knows the ultimate truth and none of the rest of us do.

Did you listen to Anita's story? It's quite profound. So profound, that I started a thread a while back specifically to address it:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...Dying-To-be-Me

Many of us have tried to enter into civil discussions with Red, and point out the FACTS with regard to reincarnation, and that the creator is loving and unconditional, but Red does not engage and address those who have attempted to engage him.

So, the futility causes those to throw their hands up in the air, and if they point out, in their opinion, that Red's behavior is somewhat uncharacteristic of one who would give a modicum of civility to others, then how is this uncivil?

This thread is not an open discussion of "what different beliefs people have" but Red's personal soap box, which ignores others and it a distinct monologue for Red.

Hi, gripreaper-

I did watch the video and thought it was very good. I had seen it before, but watched it again. I've read many articles on NDE's and seen numerous videos from those that have survived and some that included the physician that was with them. All of the ones I have seen involve people who are profoundly changed and the majority state that they experienced a new spiritual awareness. Some of them become very assured that there is, indeed, a God that they met/felt/became aware of.

Those are the people that come back from their NDE and live a life with "their" knowledge that there is a Creator, or whatever you wish to call it. Certainly, we can agree, that whatever they have experienced they usually didn't want to come back into their physical bodies. This gives me a great relief that "on the other side" is something so wonderful that individuals would chose to remain separated from their families and loved ones here in the physical world because of what they saw or felt when they died.

To get back to your point (or frustration), which I understand to be that Red uses his thread as a soapbox - there are many posts here that contain people's thoughts and their arguments to Red. I know he always answers with a reference to Jesus, but maybe his life is completely devoted to his spiritual beliefs and he truly wants to warn us of what he thinks is heading our way. We can post what we want here and have a dialogue with each other, even though Red started this thread. We can do this without attacking him personally, calling him a troll (like on another thread) and displaying the worst of our egos. What do you think??

[observer]

Posted by Beren (here)
8Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. 9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.
13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.



Who does have an argument over this?
Straight from Bible ,from Paul whom is accused of being traitor of Christ and such...

Who has any reasonable argument against this?

Thank you for asking the question that gives me the opportunity to speak my Truth, Beren.

The reasonable argument is the synthesis of everything I've been pointing-out throughout each and every comment I've made in this (and other threads) to the Fundamentalist Christian point of view. Most of those with this point of view refuse to look at the evidence that is being presented.

The Bible is a carefully crafted lie. It is a lie because it takes Cosmic Truth - such as that which you have quoted (above) - and connects that Truth to the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah/Yahweh.

From all the archeological evidence that has been extracted from the desert in Egypt and elsewhere, over the past one hundred years - evidence that has been unmolested, altered, or edited - we discover that the entity Yeshua ben Joseph was a MUCH DIFFERENT individual than the Bible purports.... with a much different message.

Yeshua spoke of a different God, a God of Unconditional Love.... a "One True God". He called this God his "Father In Heaven". He spoke of every individual having the capacity to become filled with the Holy Spirit.

It was the work of the Roman Empire, as agents of the Archon/Reptiles, that made Yeshua ben Joseph into the mythical entity, Jesus.

It was the work of the Roman Empire that edited ancient documents to make it appear as though this mythical Jesus character was the incarnation of Jehovah/Yahweh.

Put all your faith in the subtle deceptions of this Bible and my only caution to you would be:

When you are sitting around the feet of Yahweh, singing Kumbayah, don't accept the invitation to be the "guest of honor" at the Grand Banquet....

You will most likely be the main course.


THE BEST LIE EVER TOLD IS THE ONE FILLED WITH THE MOST ELEMENTS OF THE TRUTH - observer

[starninja]

Posted by observer (here)
[I]

Thank you for asking the question that gives me the opportunity to speak my Truth, Beren.

The reasonable argument is the synthesis of everything I've been pointing-out throughout each and every comment I've made in this (and other threads) to the Fundamentalist Christian point of view. Most of those with this point of view refuse to look at the evidence that is being presented.

The Bible is a carefully crafted lie. It is a lie because it takes Cosmic Truth - such as that which you have quoted (above) - and connects that Truth to the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah/Yahweh.

From all the archeological evidence that has been extracted from the desert in Egypt and elsewhere, over the past one hundred years - evidence that has been unmolested, altered, or edited - we discover that the entity Yeshua ben Joseph was a MUCH DIFFERENT individual than the Bible purports.... with a much different message.

Yeshua spoke of a different God, a God of Unconditional Love.... a "One True God". He called this God his "Father In Heaven". He spoke of every individual having the capacity to become filled with the Holy Spirit.

It was the work of the Roman Empire, as agents of the Archon/Reptiles, that made Yeshua ben Joseph into the mythical entity, Jesus.

It was the work of the Roman Empire that edited ancient documents to make it appear as though this mythical Jesus character was the incarnation of Jehovah/Yahweh.

Put all your faith in the subtle deceptions of this Bible and my only caution to you would be:

When you are sitting around the feet of Yahweh, singing Kumbayah, don't accept the invitation to be the "guest of honor" at the Grand Banquet....

You will most likely be the main course.


THE BEST LIE EVER TOLD IS THE ONE FILLED WITH THE MOST ELEMENTS OF THE TRUTH - observer

It is interesting what you wrote. My search for truth lead me to the Roman Empire and I have found out that Christians didn’t accept the Old Testament. I have to do more research to get a bigger picture. Second, studying the religions of Chaldea, Babylonia, and Assyria, I have found a number of similar myths that are in The Old Testament. Even ziggurat resembles the Babel tower. But I have found similar myths in Greek mythology too.

I am far away to say that the Bible is as you said,” a carefully crafted lie” I will not make up my mind without a concrete evidence, and perhaps, I will never know the truth.




Reconstruction of the appearance of one of the ziggurat Etemenanki in Babylon .

Model of Etemenanki. Pergamon museum (Berlin) "The house foundation / base of heaven and earth" - the temple in the form of ziggurat , located in Babylon , in the immediate vicinity of the Processional Way, according to popular opinion dedicated to the god Marduk , one of the most important sanctuaries of the State of Babylon . According to some researchers, this building was the inspiration for the biblical story of the Tower of Babel

[observer]

Posted by starninja (here)
[....snip]
"It is interesting what you wrote. My search for truth lead me to the Roman Empire and I have found out that Christians didn’t accept the Old Testament. I have to do more research to get a bigger picture.

I have spent my entire adult life searching for the Truth, starninja. This quest began in my fourteenth year. I'm now on the cusp of my 65th birthday.

You will never find understanding listening to one single, narrow-minded, point of reference. You must explore every detail, regardless of where, and against what belief system those evidential trails lead.

This is a lifetime work.

Seek-out the hard irrefutable evidence, such as that buried for thousands of years. Follow some of my comments

The evidential trail doesn't lie....

[panopticon]

Posted by kreagle (here)
RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.

If you would rather converse about this in a PM, I understand, and am perfectly OK with that.

I await your reply.

Love and Peace,.......kreagle

G'day kreagle,

This thread has always been called "the Bible"... The reference you made in one of your earlier responses to me was about the opening posts first line which says 'let the Bible speak'.

This thread was started by RedeZra following a number of discussions in other threads which critiqued some notable apologists scholars.

As for RedeZra's philosophy. I have a great amount of respect for his knowledge of early Christian Church history and while he tends to "colour" it with his perspective he stays fairly well with the creationist/apologist beliefs. While I don't believe anywhere near the same as he does (I am not a theist) his knowledge in this area has assisted me by supplying additional references and points of research in related fields (to which I have thanked him a number of times). The trouble that I have had, over the many discussions that I've had with Red, is that when I present evidence that is contrary to his understanding he simply says that it is a lie made up by the establishment/cabal/"insert name here" (this is why I often use creationist/apologist sources in discussions with him).

I haven't been back to this thread since you asked me to honour RedeZra's opening posts request and 'let the Bible speak'. I had been supplying evidence that showed there were obvious problems with the presented material (any of Ron Wyatt's material for example) until then. As this thread is about the Bible it should be open to critiques of the Bible. As an example I would say that there is no evidence, outside of the Bible and tradition (baring a short unrelated inscription), that the entire "Exodus" account ever occurred. This doesn't mean there weren't some Israelites in Egypt at the time in question, rather that the view of them all being slaves and the rest of the story is based on tradition and not fact.

The same goes for the New Testament. There is little evidence that an historical Jesus existed (though I view there was probably a "roaming preacher" who went by this name as it was common in the period) in any historical documentation (the Jospehus quote is a notable exception but is generally accepted as a later addition around the time of Eusebius [4th Century CE]) and there is amply archaeological evidence that Nazareth didn't exist until late in the 1st Century CE. I've presented evidence to back up what I've said throughout this thread and I don't feel the need to repeat myself.

From my various discussions with RedeZra my understanding of his philosophy, it being so closely associated with the fundamentalist one, to be "saved" a person would need:

• to follow the various Bible commandments to the letter,
• be "born again" (ie accept Jesus as your personal saviour),
• believe in the resurrection and ascension of Jesus and finally
• believe that the Bible, in its entirety (ie OT and NT), is the true and inspired word of God.

Maybe he has additional personal beliefs regarding dietary and hygiene requirements (some fundamentalists do) but his beliefs seem fairly creationist/orthodox to me.
Kind Regards,
Panopticon

[starninja]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by starninja (here)
[....snip]
"It is interesting what you wrote. My search for truth lead me to the Roman Empire and I have found out that Christians didn’t accept the Old Testament. I have to do more research to get a bigger picture.

I have spent my entire adult life searching for the Truth, starninja. This quest began in my fourteenth year. I'm now on the cusp of my 65th birthday.

You will never find understanding listening to one single, narrow-minded, point of reference. You must explore every detail, regardless of where, and against what belief system those evidential trails lead.

This is a lifetime work.

Seek-out the hard irrefutable evidence, such as that buried for thousands of years. Follow some of my comments

The evidential trail doesn't lie....

Hey, where did I say that I look for” the understanding in one single narrow minded point of reference”?

It would be very unwise and limiting indeed. I don’t accept any beliefs or make conclusions without looking at the issue from any possible angle. In fact, when we accept a belief we close our mind for alternative explanations. As I said, I can’t say that the Bible is a lie. I question a lot the Old Testament and I keep studying. I am also very aware that the Bible has been changed over the years. I was watching a presentation of a person who spent 6 years studying different versions of the Bible and presented specific verses and their alteration. I know that it is life time task, and I accept that I may never know the truth.

BTW, I don’t follow anybody…...expect my intuition.

[RedeZra]

Posted by kreagle (here)
RedeZra,

It's been awhile since I have posted here, or commented to this OP, by you. I see that you have "changed" the "original title" from.......let the Bible speak,......to......the Bible,.....since I posted last in March. That's interesting.

I'll have to say that even I am left somewhat confused as to what your personal beliefs are. I can understand the confusion that others are experiencing.

Perhaps it would help "clear up" a lot of confusion if you would be specific and relate to us all exactly what a person needs to do in order to be saved,......in a "complete" and "simple" Bible-based explanation.

hi Kreagle

the thread title has always been the Bible

but in my first post here i wrote let the Bible speak


this thread was ment to explore what the Bible says about our origin history and destiny

and look for facts artifacts and testimonies that back the Bible up


this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation


but today governments have rejected this cornerstone

and are doing things in direct opposition to what is written there


the Bible has obviously become too radical for the State

and so it ridicules and rejects what is supposed to be the inspired word of the Creator


so i wanted to find out

if the Bible is the written word of God

for myself


and that is why i made this thread




about being saved

people say saved from what


what did Jesus save those who accept Him from ?


you tell me Kreagle ; )

[kreagle]

Posted by Beren (here)
Someone said here that because of Red and such many are steered away from Christianity.
I disagree.

Hypocrites in clergy and elsewhere made ordinary people suffer in order to be Christian.
To be a Christian you have to die as old person of this world and be re born into new person of divine way.

This is maybe oversimplification but essence is here.

Either you die (thus transform) into light or you are not a Christian.
Being Christian is being holy man or woman.

Are you?
Or who is?

Anyone can be but will they?
Will they give up alluring call of lower dimensionality and polarities, fear and else?

Will they rise up to their divine nature and be one in Christ and God?

I will say that attacking Red here doesn't mean anything to anyone. Doesn't help the situation at all.
Rising up from our polarities will do good.

As per Kreagles's question I will add these words from Bible:
1 Corinthians 13

GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

Love

13 I may speak in the languages of humans and of angels. But if I don’t have love, I am a loud gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 I may have the gift to speak what God has revealed, and I may understand all mysteries and have all knowledge. I may even have enough faith to move mountains. But if I don’t have love, I am nothing. 3 I may even give away all that I have and give up my body to be burned.[a] But if I don’t have love, none of these things will help me.
4 Love is patient. Love is kind. Love isn’t jealous. It doesn’t sing its own praises. It isn’t arrogant. 5 It isn’t rude. It doesn’t think about itself. It isn’t irritable. It doesn’t keep track of wrongs. 6 It isn’t happy when injustice is done, but it is happy with the truth. 7 Love never stops being patient, never stops believing, never stops hoping, never gives up.
8Love never comes to an end. There is the gift of speaking what God has revealed, but it will no longer be used. There is the gift of speaking in other languages, but it will stop by itself. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will no longer be used. 9 Our knowledge is incomplete and our ability to speak what God has revealed is incomplete. 10 But when what is complete comes, then what is incomplete will no longer be used. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, thought like a child, and reasoned like a child. When I became an adult, I no longer used childish ways. 12 Now we see a blurred image in a mirror. Then we will see very clearly. Now my knowledge is incomplete. Then I will have complete knowledge as God has complete knowledge of me.
13 So these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the best one of these is love.



Who does have an argument over this?
Straight from Bible ,from Paul whom is accused of being traitor of Christ and such...

Who has any reasonable argument against this?

Beren,

Who could possibly argue with the love of God! I spoke about this special disbursement of love, that God,.....and God only,.....can give, and that's a special level of love called,....."AGAPE".

Agape is simply "the love of God for humankind"! It can also be defined as the love of Christians for other persons,....corresponding to the love of God for humankind. Hence, we learn from Him and consequently learn to "follow suite"!

Notice the "next valuable lesson" that we are taught, in reference to love, from the Master!

John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Here we see God's love,... as a "precious seed",...coming to "fruition". Instead of God sitting back and saying,....."Well, I love them,.....and I wish them the "best",....and hopefully they'll do the right thing!", we see a "different direction" that "real love" takes. We see that "real love" intervenes!,....we see God's love "in action"!

(point)

The "reason" I am pointing this "lesson of God" out, in reference to His love, is simply because,....for the most part,...."this world" has developed a "warped concept" of what "love really is"!

We've seen the entire world, especially from a "religious standpoint", buy wholeheartedly into what John Lennon, and the Beatles, sang about in their "hit song",...."All you need is love"!

This type of "misguided love" is purely "passive",.....AGAPE,.....God's love,....is "proactive"!

The popular and prevalent idea today is,......

Corporal punishment, (chastisement/spanking),...is no longer required in "the home",.....for "All you need is love"!

There's "alternative ways" of dealing with "little Billy and precious Susie",.....,"just talk to them,....on their level",.....for, as we now know,....."All you need is love"!

Surely God would "never" deal with "us" like that!!,....or,......would He?

Hebrews 12:5-7
King James Version (KJV)

5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Once again, we are talking about "AGAPE",.....God's love!

(in conclusion)

Is it "possible" that God's love,....Agape,......"instructs us in ways....we "sometimes" don't like, or care for? As a father of "three" myself,.....I never hesitated to with "my children,.....for I love them, and I'm looking out for their best interests.

Is it "possible" that God's love,....Agape,......"challenges us to move to the "next level",.....make us uncomfortable so that we will elevate our current position?" As a father,......I'm glad and humbled to say,....that my "three" have looked me in the eye and expressed their gratitude for "taking a stand",....."making tough decisions",....."giving them bits of wisdom/life lessons during difficult times". Now they are on their own, raising children themselves,.....and "learning what it was like to be in my shoes!"

Love,......Christian love,.......AGAPE,......goes a lot deeper than most people realize and are taught.

Beren, was your post to me because you felt I was being to "harsh" to RedeZra?

Is this "why" your post relays a strong dose of an,....."All you need is love" message?

That's not my intentions,.....whatsoever! I would like some "clarifications" from him, and have stated that I would be "perfectly OK" with doing this in a PM, if he felt more comfortable in doing it that way.

Love a Peace,.......kreagle

[RedeZra]

Posted by cloud9 (here)
Red,
I'm really interested in your opinion about near death experiences, reincarnation, etc., but please give me YOUR opinion not a quote from the bible, also if possible, please give me a good paragraph not just short sentences.

hi Cloud lol i like to speak and type as little as possible

if you don't believe me just check my post count ; )


i have been trying to find out if the doctrine of reincarnation is true

for if true

then the Bible is false

and Jesus a joke


i don't remember any past lives

and if i did

then the Bible would be false

and Jesus a joke


so i have no way of knowing if reincarnation is true or not

but i have found ample evidence

for the factuality of the Bible

and the living reality of Jesus


and Jesus also says in the Bible

that He came to destroy the doctrines of satan


so was fat Buddha a lier and blue Krishna a jinn ?

well they did not get crucified for our sins

Posted by cloud9 (here)
My next questions are:
What other subjects do you like or study besides the bible?
Who is your favorite researcher, author? (Sereda, Dyer, Haramein, Horak, Farrell, etc.?
Have you ever read Conversations with God?
Thanks a lot!

i have read much and even visited gurus

since teen i have been obsessed with truth


nobody seemed to know what life was about

or there were all these divergent theories

so i set out to try to find truth myself


i never thought the long journey would take me to that old Book back home

but it did

and i sensed the Spirit in it


the Spirit of the Living God

who is not found in a book nor the Book


but it is the beginning of wisdom

and an acceptance of His Spirit and Sacrifice

[RedeZra]

Posted by kreagle (here)
Beren, was your post to me because you felt I was being to "harsh" to RedeZra?

Is this "why" your post relays a strong dose of an,....."All you need is love" message?

That's not my intentions,.....whatsoever! I would like some "clarifications" from him, and have stated that I would be "perfectly OK" with doing this in a PM, if he felt more comfortable in doing it that way.

Love a Peace,.......kreagle

i'm sure it was not directed at you

and i find it interesting that you thought so lol


if i have written something you disagree with Kreagle

then just come out and say it

so i can look into it


i sense we disagree about the Trinity

but is there anything else ?


God Bless

[starninja]

Posted by RedeZra (here)


this Book has stood the test of time for almost two millennia

and has been the bedrock of western civilisation

Oh yes, especially when this Book was changed without our knowledge.
To sort out what is true and what is a lie is the biggest challenge. Think about King James and his connection with Francis Bacon.

According to AMORC Francis Bacon was Rosicrucian but William R. Denslow's "10,000 Famous Freemasons" listed him as a Freemason.

At the age of forty-five, Bacon married Alice Barnham, the fourteen-year-old daughter of a well-connected London alderman and MP.
The well-connected antiquary John Aubrey noted in his Brief Lives concerning Bacon, "He was a Pederast. His Ganimeds and Favourites tooke Bribes", biographers continue to debate about Bacon's sexual inclinations and the precise nature of his personal relationships. Several authors believe that despite his marriage Bacon was primarily attracted to the same sex. Professor Forker for example has explored the "historically documentable sexual preferences" of both King James and Bacon – and concluded they were all oriented to "masculine love", a contemporary term that "seems to have been used exclusively to refer to the sexual preference of men for members of their own gender." The Jacobean antiquarian, Sir Simonds D'Ewes implied there had been a question of bringing him to trial for buggery.

This conclusion has been disputed by others, who point to lack of consistent evidence, and consider the sources to be more open to interpretation. In his "New Atlantis", Bacon describes his utopian island as being "the chastest nation under heaven", in which there was no prostitution or adultery, and further saying that "as for masculine love, they have no touch of it".

The succession of James I brought Bacon into greater favor. He was knighted in 1603. In another shrewd move, Bacon wrote his Apologie in defence of his proceedings in the case of Essex, as Essex had favoured James to succeed to the throne.

Bacon's public career ended in disgrace in 1621. After he fell into debt, a Parliamentary Committee on the administration of the law charged him with twenty-three separate counts of corruption. To the lords, who sent a committee to enquire whether a confession was really his, he replied, "My lords, it is my act, my hand, and my heart; I beseech your lordships to be merciful to a broken reed." He was sentenced to a fine of £40,000 and committed to the Tower of London during the king's pleasure; the imprisonment lasted only a few days and the fine was remitted by the king. More seriously, parliament declared Bacon incapable of holding future office or sitting in parliament. He narrowly escaped undergoing degradation, which would have stripped him of his titles of nobility. Subsequently the disgraced viscount devoted himself to study and writing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon


Can we trust King James and The Authorized King James Version.?

It would be unwise.

[gripreaper]

Posted by RedeZra (here)
i have been trying to find out if the doctrine of reincarnation is true, for if true then the Bible is false

How can you say this? There is ample evidence in the bible of reincarnation. This has been pointed out numerous times in this thread.

The underlying idea of reincarnation and karma is very simple. Human perfection ("salvation") is the assured destiny of the spiritual self of everyone. Reincarnation, as the evolutionary method, provides the necessary time and opportunity for self-perfecting. The law of action and constantly modified reaction ensures justice to all. "God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows." (Gal 6:7b – NIV) The attainment of perfection is rendered certain by the interior presence of an infinite, divine power ceaselessly at work within the spiritual self of every human being.

Jesus of Nazareth, himself, taught reincarnation and that those around him took it for granted. There are passages in the Bible where it is evident that Jesus' inner circle understood and accepted reincarnation as part of the natural mechanism of humanity's spiritual journey.

When Jesus said: "You must be born again" (Jn 3:7b – NIV), he was talking about reincarnation. When Jesus said: ".... before Abraham was born, I am!" (Jn 8:58b – NIV), he was talking about reincarnation. When Jesus, perhaps with Malachi 4:5 in mind, explained to the crowd that John the Baptist was the reincarnation of Elijah (Mt 11:7-15), he was talking about just that.

It seems that the people around Jesus were equally at home with the reality of reincarnation. On one occasion Jesus asked his disciples: "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." (Mt 16:13b-14 - NIV) In other words, people were taking the view that John or Elijah or Jeremiah had been reincarnated as the Son of Man.

On another occasion, Jesus and his group encountered a man who was congenitally blind. The disciples asked Jesus: "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life...." (Jn 9:2b-3 - NIV)

The question as to whether the man himself had sinned and in consequence had been sightless shows the clear thought that justice demanded that the transgression should have occurred in a physical body. As this could only have happened in a former life on Earth, belief in reincarnation is implicit in the question. In the disciples' minds the man might have been born blind because of events in one of his previous lives.

There were plenty of explicit references to reincarnation in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible (in the texts as originally given), including many clear statements on the subject by Jesus himself, but these references were edited out of the Bible for political reasons in the sixth century.

Prior to the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 CE, the indications are that there had been many clear references to reincarnation in the Bible. But Justinian I (483-565), an energetic Byzantine Emperor, and his wife, didn't like the idea of reincarnation – it tended to reduce the power of priest-caste dogma, and therefore their own power – so they convoked the Council and, among much other gerrymandering, got the Church Fathers to issue a decree to remove most of the references to reincarnation from the extant biblical texts.

But in the early Christian communities, reincarnation was a datum. Origen (c185-254) asks: "Is it not more in conformity with reason that every soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a body, and introduced according to its deserts and former actions? Is it not rational that souls should be introduced into bodies, in accordance with their merits and previous deeds, and that those who have used their bodies in doing the utmost possible good should have a right to bodies endowed with qualities superior to the bodies of others? The soul, which is immaterial and invisible in its nature, exists in no material place without having a body suited to the nature of that place; accordingly, it at one time puts off one body, which was necessary before, but which is no longer adequate in its changed state, and it exchanges it for a second." (from 'Contra Celsum')

And in another place, Origen says: "The soul has no beginning nor end. Every soul comes into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats of its previous life. Its place in this world as a vessel appointed to honour or dishonour is determined by its previous merits or demerits. Its work in this world determines its place in the world which is to follow this." (from 'De Principiis')

These two passages from Origen are cited in "Reincarnation: An East-West Anthology" edited by J.Head & S.L.Cranston (1961); Quest Books ISBN 0-8356-0035-1.

Among several books of scriptural status which were kept out of the official church Bible, perhaps for fear that they might empower the vulgar, was the Pistis Sophia. In this text there is a passage in which Jesus explains a little more about the reincarnation of Elijah as John the Baptist than the Bible (at Mt 11:7-15) has space for: "I found Elisabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, before she had conceived him and I cast into her a power which I had received from the Little Jao, the Good, who is in the Midst, so that he should be able to preach before me, and prepare my way and baptise with water of forgiveness. Now that power was in the body of John. And again, in place of the soul of the archons which he was due to receive, I found the soul of the prophet Elias in the aeons of the sphere; and I took it in and I took his soul again; I brought it to the Virgin of the Light, and she gave it to her paralemptors. They brought it to the sphere of the archons, and they cast it into the womb of Elisabeth. But the power of the Little Jao, he of the Midst, and the soul of the prophet Elias were bound in the body of John the Baptist." (Pistis Sophia - Book 1 - Chapter 7)

[Beren]

Kreagle

I agree with you fully. Also my comment wasn't for you since you weren't harsh to anyone.

Generally this reply is for all from me onwards;

There are manyfold divisions with and among humans.
Divisions that put us in a corner where we think that we are right and someone is wrong.

Even when seeing those miracles first hand - all abandoned Christ.

Fear criples humans.
Out of fear humans seek various explanations just to be able to put this that they experienced in a tight box.
Why ?

Because we cannot believe who we are. We are Gods who are growing up. Christ explained this to us and confirmed by power given from God the Father. Creator of life.

But we still cannot believe this ultimate truth.
Our ancestors didn't thus arranged Christ 's murder.
Only you cannot kill God. Thus it was allowed this whole theatrical murded just for all to see few days later that Christ is alive.

Today we hide behind our science which tells us we are lab rats of nature or some aliens.
All in the same time shifting our focus from finding answers in us.
In going deeply within to the realm of soul.
Or if you speak about soul matters there are spirit traps everywhere so that fear will stop you from ultimate truth of us- being divine.

We are so afraid of our nature hence the responsibility for our deeds so we hide in modern science or religions or philosophy. Neither of those will help us unless we accept who we are and rise above current way of thought and way of acting.

Bible is very right and not a lie for it shows human fallen nature at its best.

But to be God and beyond this all , you and me should rise above Bible, religions of all kind,quasi science, basically all misleading things. Connecting directly to the soul thus God who created it.

Otherwise this will continue . This quarrel of ours down here on Earth.
Who is right or wrong while life passes by.

Life - everything around us can and is teaching us.
Eyes to see and ears to hear ?