Horus-Ra as the Archontic Alien Parasite: A follow-up interview with Maarit

[Daughter of Time]

Posted by wynderer (here)
here comes wynderer the contrary once again

Daughter of Time, what i want so much to do is to encourage you to access the warrioress in yourself -- i have never been afraid during/after abductions

isometimes think that the idea that anger is 'unspiritual' is part of the archon's conditioning of the collective Human mind

fear is helpful to alert one to danger

in some situations, anger is helpful to deal w/that situation [imo]

wyn

PS -- edit to add: my anger is not really for me -- i'm outta here soon anyway -- it is anger for all the innocents -- the Animals & the Children

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)

Posted by Jean-Luc (here)
If you haven't done so yet, I heartidly recommend you watch Berhnard Guenther's 110 minutes video UFOs, Aliens, and the Question of Contact 2012 (Full Documentary) which pretty much summarizes the work of Dr Karla Turner... and much more, including segments with Richard Dolan, Laura Knight and many well thought comments and extracts from various serious researchers & authors.

You can watch it on Youtube but you will get a better quality video on his website at this address:

http://veilofreality.com/2011/03/12/...2%98%9E-video/ (Press HD in the upper right corner)

The accompanying article is also published on sott.net http://www.sott.net/articles/show/24...ion-of-Contact

with this sort of enthusiastic comment from a reader:

This is the topics of all topics.
This is the best article I have ever read on the subject.
I am an abductee and have been more than frustrated by the "New Age" feel good wishful thinking that this subject evokes.
Thank you for your bold truth seeking .
We are blinded by our binary thinking, black or white, good or bad.
There are answers above the childish options of, " are you a good witch , or a bad witch."

His website : http://veilofreality.com/

Excellent work!

"The idea that men, women, and children can be taken against their wills from their homes, cars, and school yards by strange humanoid beings, lifted onto spacecraft, and subjected to intrusive and threatening procedures is so terrifying, and yet so shattering to our notions of what is possible in our universe, that the actuality of the phenomenon has been largely rejected out of hand or bizarrely distorted in most media accounts."

- John E. Mack, M.D., professor of psychiatry at Harvard, from his book Abduction

This is the first time I've watched a documentary of this kind without feeling angry, tearful, or depressed. This does not mean that I am less disturbed by the thought of abductions (especially my own) but that I've come to accept it for what it is, with far less fear.

I believe that ETs will not bother me anymore. I don't know why I believe this. I hope I'm not being naive or delusional.

In my core, I feel that a healing can finally be perceived. I know that being here has been very helpful.

With gratitude to Houman and all the helpful posters on this thread.

Daughter of Time

I've never felt that fear and anger are unspiritual. Fear and anger have their place. Anger can be a catalyst to spring one into action. Fear, on the other hand, can be paralyzing. And to become a warrior/ess, fearlessness, I believe, is a pre-requisite.

[wynderer]

---------------------------

[Daughter of Time]

Posted by wynderer (here)
hi , Daughter of Time -- my misunderstanding -- sorry -- i'd read justoneman's post saying something about 'like you [DoT], he had left fear & anger behind '[paraphrasing] -- i have not read all yr posts, & thought you'd said this

also in your post you said :
This does not mean that I am less disturbed by the thought of abductions (especially my own) but that I've come to accept it for what it is, with far less fear.

so i took that to mean you felt fear

i also had convinced myself that the abductions had stopped -- apparently a lot of us go thru this, believing the abductions have stopped

James Bartley was a big help during a time when the Reptilians were esp active in my life -- i asked him once if abductions stopped when people got older & thus of less use for breeding purposes etc

he dashed my hopes by telling me of an 85-yr-old woman who was still being abducted

as i see it, we abductees &/or milabs are part of a big joint Human/ET operation, & the abductions won't stop until the op is shut down -- we're up against some pretty sophisticated technology --

on the positive/good self-esteem side -- a fellow abductee who posted a lot on M Salla's forum -- very knowledgable -- said that the abductors prefer what she called 'the juicy ones '' -- those of us w/a lot of Life energy

wyn

I am confused and discouraged as to why an 85 year would still be abducted. What would they have to gain from an 85 year old who is no no longer a viable source of sperm/ova? Not to mention that an 85 year doesn't have much life force to offer. Obviously, the 85 year must have had an indomitable level of life force when abductions started. Would the abductions continue in order to monitor the levels of deterioration? Or something else? Would the reason, perhaps, be to continue programming the 85 year old in order for her/him to influence younger people's belief systems?

And to the best of your knowledge and understanding, if abductions stop at a younger age, does the abductee regain the lost life force, or is that gone forever?

[donk]

I have not had time to read much lately, but have been thinking a lot of the post that I took wynderer to imply that I was coming from a victim mentality--which i appreciate though is not exactly the whole picture. i feel I have lost the victimhood I used to cling to, and am able to discern truly having something/someone imposing their will on my reality--and the bullsh!t attachments and worries and fears that he/she would rightfully and helpfully point out were it the case.

That said, I just cherry-picked (and read no further than) this comment from post 1636:

but there are some basic truths, which are being kept secret from the masses.

The situation I have is that is that not only is being hidden from the most important individual in my life, I am learning that her situation is identical to the abduction experience--and further, abduction or not (not implying mental illness or some other form of outside mind control), I have seen undeniable, physically real proof of blocks in place for her from even hearing them, she experiences agitation when she starts to hear the truth and it begins to resonate, and when she really GETS IT, she is completely shut down, either from an external force or something programmed inside her mind (or both).

She is learning, growing, realizing her power, hungry for the truth, and paths to get her there have made themselves synchronistically available. Last Thursday, we made so much progress, despite (or proved by) repeated physical shut downs including repressing her memories each time. The result is some of it hit home in her, she has demonstrated in her mindset. The consequence though has been the triggering of the chronic condition she now is remembering recurring in the past, where she is constantly dizzy--initial diagnosis at ER from Sunday when it became unbearable for her to not take ANY action is labrynthitis (severe chronic vertigo caused by "virus" in the inner ear).

The good thing is that she learned that she has more control, she knows she needs to victim mentality and own this, which she has been putting great effort toward (with mixed results). My question is, can anyone give good advise (or point me to a post I have not yet been able to read) on this specific situation. Anything that could shed some light/understanding for her.

My other issue is--specific to a abduction scenario where someone is obviously controlled, and having indentical experiences that others have had (and she does NOT read, or look at any of this stuff--she either experienced these things directly or somehow I am projecting experiences on to her), what can be done to remove this block? Could her dizziness/head pain be growing pains--ie she just needs to get to the responsibilty/drop the victimhood to be free of it? From all of the stuff i have just been "coming across", I know there are people who have been through similar, and I have been consuming as much as can and attempting to find a way to get it to her that she can hear and use.

Because the other situation is the "ghosts" in our house and the demons in the attic. Can someone please give opinions on whether or not it is reasonable to assume that we seem to be on spatial/geographically area where strong is manifesting in this specific form? Would moving help, or is the energy signature ONLY from us? It seems, but i cannot definitely verify, that being in the house makes it worse. Whether it is the "ordinary" ghosts needing something from her, the demonic/vampiric seeming energy (serparate from the ghosts), it seem to be our home--the space itself--that is throwing up more blocks in addition to the programming...does this make sense? In other words: Are the archontic forces going to be as strong anywhere we go? Or would re-location (not out of fear, just out of common sense...if your house is too close to the ocean, you are not caving in to evil forces to relocate, you are accepting reality)...is it possible re-location would help? We've already decided to try not to talk too much about in the house, but she is stuck there for now, since she is so dizzy.

Any insight would be appreciated. I am not tryign to derail thread, if it is inappropriate please move it...it just seems that within it, almost every post relates! much love to all of us...

[donk]

Posted by donk (here)
Any insight would be appreciated. I am not tryign to derail thread, if it is inappropriate please move it...it just seems that within it, almost every post relates! much love to all of us...

Was just thinking about how silly that last statement about derailing the thread is: every post of my personal experiences is a little chronicle of my “battle” with archontic forces that have imposed themselves on my reality.

And I got to thinking about what “battling archons” really means, what I have been doing, what positive results I have getting—it is all about empowerment, and taking personal responsibility, and losing all attachments and [irrational] fear.

Whenever I learned that, my life was infinitely “easier”, and I found my calling, my passion—to share it with everyone in my reality.

Because ”battle” (conflict/struggle/attempting to control) is what feeds it. To “win”, is not to “play”. To have gained this information, find (and live) those few universal truths, so simple yet so easily manipulated--to figure it out makes life more amazing than I ever imagined it could be. I feel that all you can do is gather information, live in the now, that is empowerment...and when you have that, to spread it.

I want to personally thank every single avalonian for providing the “ammunition” (information, shared experience) in my little front in the battle, what I have learned and continue to learn has been so important and is so appreciated I can barely express it….gosh the thread is SICK!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

[Chester]

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)

Posted by wynderer (here)
here comes wynderer the contrary once again

Daughter of Time, what i want so much to do is to encourage you to access the warrioress in yourself -- i have never been afraid during/after abductions

isometimes think that the idea that anger is 'unspiritual' is part of the archon's conditioning of the collective Human mind

fear is helpful to alert one to danger

in some situations, anger is helpful to deal w/that situation [imo]

wyn

PS -- edit to add: my anger is not really for me -- i'm outta here soon anyway -- it is anger for all the innocents -- the Animals & the Children

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)

Posted by Jean-Luc (here)
If you haven't done so yet, I heartidly recommend you watch Berhnard Guenther's 110 minutes video UFOs, Aliens, and the Question of Contact 2012 (Full Documentary) which pretty much summarizes the work of Dr Karla Turner... and much more, including segments with Richard Dolan, Laura Knight and many well thought comments and extracts from various serious researchers & authors.

This is the first time I've watched a documentary of this kind without feeling angry, tearful, or depressed. This does not mean that I am less disturbed by the thought of abductions (especially my own) but that I've come to accept it for what it is, with far less fear.

I believe that ETs will not bother me anymore. I don't know why I believe this. I hope I'm not being naive or delusional.

In my core, I feel that a healing can finally be perceived. I know that being here has been very helpful.

With gratitude to Houman and all the helpful posters on this thread.

Daughter of Time

I've never felt that fear and anger are unspiritual. Fear and anger have their place. Anger can be a catalyst to spring one into action. Fear, on the other hand, can be paralyzing. And to become a warrior/ess, fearlessness, I believe, is a pre-requisite.

Seems odd to me that the recanting of my personal abduction/anomalous story/experience in relation to how I moved through the anger related to this experience and that by doing so it has been helpful to me is taken to mean that anger (nor any other emotion perhaps) is un-spiritual or "bad" or "negative." How could it be? Was my previous experience un-spiritual before I reached this threshold of acceptance? No.

My point was that by having moved completely through these emotions related specifically to this whole abduction/possession/animal and human sacrifice phenomena, I have been able to achieve peace within myself and have found the new me is much more capable of dealing with the phenomena in a proactive way that is helpful to others whereas before I was less capable of so doing because I was so consumed with the emotions.

If I had read what I have written by another poster on this forum, I would be back slapping and high fiving that person. If I were someone still dealing with the anger, I would perhaps be asking on the forum or PMing the person as to how did they achieve this.

But hey, that's just me... justoneman

[Chester]

Posted by wynderer (here)
hi , Daughter of Time -- my misunderstanding -- sorry -- i'd read justoneman's post saying something about 'like you [DoT], he had left fear & anger behind '[paraphrasing] -- i have not read all yr posts, & thought you'd said this

also in your post you said :
This does not mean that I am less disturbed by the thought of abductions (especially my own) but that I've come to accept it for what it is, with far less fear.

so i took that to mean you felt fear

i also had convinced myself that the abductions had stopped -- apparently a lot of us go thru this, believing the abductions have stopped

James Bartley was a big help during a time when the Reptilians were esp active in my life -- i asked him once if abductions stopped when people got older & thus of less use for breeding purposes etc

he dashed my hopes by telling me of an 85-yr-old woman who was still being abducted

as i see it, we abductees &/or milabs are part of a big joint Human/ET operation, & the abductions won't stop until the op is shut down -- we're up against some pretty sophisticated technology --

on the positive/good self-esteem side -- a fellow abductee who posted a lot on M Salla's forum -- very knowledgable -- said that the abductors prefer what she called 'the juicy ones '' -- those of us w/a lot of Life energy

wyn

I believe this (what you wrote, Wynderer) - in fact, based on several folks testimony, including the works from Truman Cash, families can be targeted, generations within these families can be targeted and specific souls can be targeted where they receive more attention along these lines than perhaps others. In fact, perhaps some souls are not within this program or have found a way to escape the program.

I am unsure if incarnation on earth at this time has souls who are not within the program. I would like to believe there are.

I also like to believe that I have the ability at my soul level to leave the program. I like to believe that I can do so prior to a lifetime's physical death. My personal goal is to achieve this during this lifetime and assist others to do the same.

If I am unable to achieve release from this program prior to my death, I am unsure that if I have the choice to return or not what choice I would make. I am of the type which would probably decide to return (again... assuming I might have the choice) for assisting others in freeing their soul.

But that is just me... justone

[Chester]

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
I am confused and discouraged as to why an 85 year would still be abducted. What would they have to gain from an 85 year old who is no no longer a viable source of sperm/ova? Not to mention that an 85 year doesn't have much life force to offer. Obviously, the 85 year must have had an indomitable level of life force when abductions started. Would the abductions continue in order to monitor the levels of deterioration? Or something else? Would the reason, perhaps, be to continue programming the 85 year old in order for her/him to influence younger people's belief systems?

And to the best of your knowledge and understanding, if abductions stop at a younger age, does the abductee regain the lost life force, or is that gone forever?

I happen to know, personally, some amazingly alive 90 year olds... vibrant and with a gleam in their eye like they could live forever. I suspect it is far more about the energetic bodies than simply their physical body life force. Just a thought there. justone

[Daughter of Time]

Posted by donk (here)
I have not had time to read much lately, but have been thinking a lot of the post that I took wynderer to imply that I was coming from a victim mentality--which i appreciate though is not exactly the whole picture. i feel I have lost the victimhood I used to cling to, and am able to discern truly having something/someone imposing their will on my reality--and the bullsh!t attachments and worries and fears that he/she would rightfully and helpfully point out were it the case.

That said, I just cherry-picked (and read no further than) this comment from post 1636:

but there are some basic truths, which are being kept secret from the masses.

The situation I have is that is that not only is being hidden from the most important individual in my life, I am learning that her situation is identical to the abduction experience--and further, abduction or not (not implying mental illness or some other form of outside mind control), I have seen undeniable, physically real proof of blocks in place for her from even hearing them, she experiences agitation when she starts to hear the truth and it begins to resonate, and when she really GETS IT, she is completely shut down, either from an external force or something programmed inside her mind (or both).

She is learning, growing, realizing her power, hungry for the truth, and paths to get her there have made themselves synchronistically available. Last Thursday, we made so much progress, despite (or proved by) repeated physical shut downs including repressing her memories each time. The result is some of it hit home in her, she has demonstrated in her mindset. The consequence though has been the triggering of the chronic condition she now is remembering recurring in the past, where she is constantly dizzy--initial diagnosis at ER from Sunday when it became unbearable for her to not take ANY action is labrynthitis (severe chronic vertigo caused by "virus" in the inner ear).

The good thing is that she learned that she has more control, she knows she needs to victim mentality and own this, which she has been putting great effort toward (with mixed results). My question is, can anyone give good advise (or point me to a post I have not yet been able to read) on this specific situation. Anything that could shed some light/understanding for her.

My other issue is--specific to a abduction scenario where someone is obviously controlled, and having indentical experiences that others have had (and she does NOT read, or look at any of this stuff--she either experienced these things directly or somehow I am projecting experiences on to her), what can be done to remove this block? Could her dizziness/head pain be growing pains--ie she just needs to get to the responsibilty/drop the victimhood to be free of it? From all of the stuff i have just been "coming across", I know there are people who have been through similar, and I have been consuming as much as can and attempting to find a way to get it to her that she can hear and use.

Because the other situation is the "ghosts" in our house and the demons in the attic. Can someone please give opinions on whether or not it is reasonable to assume that we seem to be on spatial/geographically area where strong is manifesting in this specific form? Would moving help, or is the energy signature ONLY from us? It seems, but i cannot definitely verify, that being in the house makes it worse. Whether it is the "ordinary" ghosts needing something from her, the demonic/vampiric seeming energy (serparate from the ghosts), it seem to be our home--the space itself--that is throwing up more blocks in addition to the programming...does this make sense? In other words: Are the archontic forces going to be as strong anywhere we go? Or would re-location (not out of fear, just out of common sense...if your house is too close to the ocean, you are not caving in to evil forces to relocate, you are accepting reality)...is it possible re-location would help? We've already decided to try not to talk too much about in the house, but she is stuck there for now, since she is so dizzy.

Any insight would be appreciated. I am not tryign to derail thread, if it is inappropriate please move it...it just seems that within it, almost every post relates! much love to all of us...

While I may not have any real wisdom to offer you, I do relate to some of the things she's going through. My left ear was implanted and that ear is a source of discomfort for me. Cacophonies emanate from my left ear on and off. However, it is possible that she is suffering from a biological condition which will clear up with treatments. She does seem to have some of the symptoms of an abductee though.

But, since you say that things are far worse when you're inside the house, then maybe it's an earthbound entity that's causing the problems. One easy and inexpensive thing you can do is visit a local spiritualist church and tell them you suspect there's an entity in your home. These people are usually very understanding and very willing to help, and often they charge you absolutely nothing, not to mention that most of them are very capable of releasing trapped entities. This is what I would suggest you do. If this is done and nothing improves, then you'll have to take different measures. But I would recommend that you start with simple things first.

Best wishes to you both.

[9eagle9]

There are no basic truths being kept from the masses. We may not be exposed to every detail and nuance but there are not 'basic' truths being hidden.

People don't want to hear about it.

[9eagle9]

Aging is a population control program instigated and keyed into our DNA at some point the past. Some people are a bit more genetically age resistant than others. Some people like myself work actively deprogramming the aging programs. I'd say if there were some species of off planet entity who had a hand in that programming they'd be interested to see how it turns out. If one is studying their 'aging' program they would more than likely choose the elderly.

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by Daughter of Time (here)
I am confused and discouraged as to why an 85 year would still be abducted. What would they have to gain from an 85 year old who is no no longer a viable source of sperm/ova? Not to mention that an 85 year doesn't have much life force to offer. Obviously, the 85 year must have had an indomitable level of life force when abductions started. Would the abductions continue in order to monitor the levels of deterioration? Or something else? Would the reason, perhaps, be to continue programming the 85 year old in order for her/him to influence younger people's belief systems?

And to the best of your knowledge and understanding, if abductions stop at a younger age, does the abductee regain the lost life force, or is that gone forever?

I happen to know, personally, some amazingly alive 90 year olds... vibrant and with a gleam in their eye like they could live forever. I suspect it is far more about the energetic bodies than simply their physical body life force. Just a thought there. justone

[Sidney]

Posted by donk (here)
Was just thinking about how silly that last statement about derailing the thread is: every post of my personal experiences is a little chronicle of my “battle” with archontic forces that have imposed themselves on my reality.

And I got to thinking about what “battling archons” really means, what I have been doing, what positive results I have getting—it is all about empowerment, and taking personal responsibility, and losing all attachments and [irrational] fear.

Whenever I learned that, my life was infinitely “easier”, and I found my calling, my passion—to share it with everyone in my reality.

Because ”battle” (conflict/struggle/attempting to control) is what feeds it. To “win”, is not to “play”. To have gained this information, find (and live) those few universal truths, so simple yet so easily manipulated--to figure it out makes life more amazing than I ever imagined it could be. I feel that all you can do is gather information, live in the now, that is empowerment...and when you have that, to spread it.

I want to personally thank every single avalonian for providing the “ammunition” (information, shared experience) in my little front in the battle, what I have learned and continue to learn has been so important and is so appreciated I can barely express it….gosh the thread is SICK!!! Thank you thank you thank you!!!

.

You have NO idea how much sense that makes. TO Win is to not play. The battling, and them feeding off of it. This one post of yours, (and I have to confess, I have not invested nearly enough time to read this thread in its intirety), but this one post has given me a HUGE piece to my own dilemmas. And my story is long, entwining, and extremely complicated. But That one phrase "to WIN is to not play". It's magic, DONK, magic.

I have been fighting battles for years, and wondering why I can never get on the winning side. Battles, and struggles, and tons of weird ***t have followed me for years. And this is it. I have been fighting them. By doing that, I am feeding them breakfast,lunch,dinner and lots of nibbly snacks in between. All I need to do is figure out a way to let go, and stop trying to be "right". or something.

You have no idea what I am talking about, but this little bit of wisdom can be utilized in many different aspects of our lives. This is all philosophical, I know, but it makes perfect sense. It
won't solve all my problems, but I think it will give me a push in the right direction.


Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sidney]

Posted by observer (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I would make a request. If I give a heartfelt question, please don't give me a video-ized version of someone else's truth. That tells me a number of things, that you aren't seriously invested in your own truth, because its not really yours. It's someone elses. What I am asking of you is coming from me, not someone else.

I very rarely discuss my personal habits simply because they are personal. However, in respect to 9eagle9's request to give a heartfelt answer, and since I was the one who began this debate, here is my final word on the matter:

I was a hunter up until 1968. I used to fill my freezer with all sorts of meat from the kill. One day, while out hunting with my father, I shot a dear and only wounded it. When I drew my pistol to shoot the dear in the head, to finish the kill, my father wouldn't allow me to finish-off the job in that fashion. Instead he made me get down on my knees and cut the deer's throat.

As I did this, the dear let-out the most mournful moan one would ever witness.

From that day forward, I've not eaten another animal.

My rationalization has ever since been: if I'm no longer willing to kill the animal, I have no right to ask someone else to do the dirty work for me.

Now, I'll make a challenge.

To any individual who wishes to eat a cow, or any other red blooded animal. Next time you have the desire to eat such a thing, make the slaughter part of your ritual.

Do it all, the killing, the gutting, the skinning, the butchering, the cooking, and then sit-down and do the eating.

My point has been, since my first comment regarding eating the flesh of a beast: this is all part of a sacrifice ritual - whether you want to believe this or not. I brought this up as a discussion regarding how we are all controlled - through ritual - by an archonic hyperdimensional presence. One can make-up all sorts of rationalizations to justify why you are participating in this ritual. The bottom line is that you ARE participating in a ritual.

This particular reality is controlled through ritual. Blood sacrifice, in all its myriad forms, are all a function of this ritualistic control mechanism.

I believe enough has been said regarding this issue....

That is a very humble post. And as I read your words, the shame of my meat eating has sneaked up and bit me on the nose. Thank you for the wake up call. Your story about the deer brought me to tears. Bless you Observer

[Chester]

Posted by starchild111 (here)

You have NO idea how much sense that makes. TO Win is to not play. The battling, and them feeding off of it. This one post of yours, (and I have to confess, I have not invested nearly enough time to read this thread in its intirety), but this one post has given me a HUGE piece to my own dilemmas. And my story is long, entwining, and extremely complicated. But That one phrase "to WIN is to not play". It's magic, DONK, magic.

I have been fighting battles for years, and wondering why I can never get on the winning side. Battles, and struggles, and tons of weird ***t have followed me for years. And this is it. I have been fighting them. By doing that, I am feeding them breakfast,lunch,dinner and lots of nibbly snacks in between. All I need to do is figure out a way to let go, and stop trying to be "right". or something.

You have no idea what I am talking about, but this little bit of wisdom can be utilized in many different aspects of our lives. This is all philosophical, I know, but it makes perfect sense. It
won't solve all my problems, but I think it will give me a push in the right direction.


Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what has been working for me - by moving "through" my anger and popping out the other side, I no longer give that anger energy (which feeds these monsters) and then they seem to stop bothering you. But hey, I am sort of new at this... but I have never, ever had such prolonged stretches of peace like I have had since I got to the other side of all my anger.

Winning, is leaving the game, justoneman

[Sidney]

Posted by justoneman (here)
That's what has been working for me - by moving "through" my anger and popping out the other side, I no longer give that anger energy (which feeds these monsters) and then they seem to stop bothering you. But hey, I am sort of new at this... but I have never, ever had such prolonged stretches of peace like I have had since I got to the other side of all my anger.

Winning, is leaving the game, justoneman

The only problem I foresee is that old habits are hard to break, but I have some pretty good motives.

[wynderer]

-------------------------------

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
There are no basic truths being kept from the masses. We may not be exposed to every detail and nuance but there are not 'basic' truths being hidden.

People don't want to hear about it.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PWSx0bBiNIs

[wynderer]

-------------------------------------

[9eagle9]

Meat eating pro and con is grossly out of proportion and I can't decide which is worse for animals in general the pro or con. There's a balance here and no one can keep their emotions out of it, pro or con, to see the deeper under lying wisdom that animals lead us to by the expression of their existence, rather than the words they spea. But its very pertinent to this thread. There is nothing out there in nature that does not reflect our own condition back to us.

If you don't like meat, don't eat it. If you are making yourself noble over not eating animals you are using the animal to advance your emotional agenda, more than likely you are imposing on them in ways that simply killing them does not.

A dead animal is out of the reach of human assholery.

To be perfectly honest people who project that sort of emotional grunge onto animals, corrupting them with our own consciousness are as guilty as those who mass commercialize animals. Ones on a physical level, one is on a psyche level.

I find it gross and disrespectful to impose our consciousness , our ****, our baggage on any animal. As if they extensions of our emotional body. We see animals as victims because we see ourselves that way. We see animals as wounded and suffering because we are--to the point we grieve and moan pre-kill over them.

Animals have not been innocent since we have been not innocent. We've corrupted them. We corrupt them still by imposing our consciousness on them.

I am recently guilty of taking chicks that I knew would not live, and they would die as Nature intended, because they were not composed of what Nature intended. They had been compromised. The only reason I took them was because I wanted to make sure there was not something I was looking, but I know this, I was doing it for myself. I KNOW this. It was not a noble act. So when they died I had to accept that while it was an emotional gesture on my part, I was actually attempting to interfere with what nature had intended. In case someone else had imposed something on the chicks that I could correct. I couldn't, and I accept that.


The people who whine the most about how I keep my horses in a paddock (they should be free!) are most apt to whine when I turn them loose. Who is bothered by being loose, the horse or the human? Okay well if they can't be penned and they can't be loose, what do we do?

When my mare jumped the fence and went peeling down 8 mile road in Detroit who was troubled by it. Not her, she enjoys terrorizing motorists. It was humans who were troubled by it. She will terrorize a Peta activist or a hunter in equal measure. From experience and as a riding instructor people who think they have a mystical connection with animals usually don't.

She got out yesterday, cornered a gelding, beat the ever loving **** out of him, and every raised a great outraged cry "Oh she's so horrible". The gelding ran in a panic to huddle in the barn yard, while she fled up the road and came charging back down the driveway to find him, to cuddle with him . "Oh she's so weird."

She's not weird she's behaving like a horse. That is weird behavior for humans, not horses. Who is determining how she should behave? People are. She don't care she'll continue behaving like a horse. It doesn't matter what you impose on her. I think she needs a blanket on, she'll shake it off. I think she needs a bath, she'll roll in the dirt shortly afterwards. She steps on my foot and I object and she shrugs and ..."You sit on my back all the time" Fair is fair.

People who think they know and understand animals really don't because what is standing between them and animals is their consciousness and all its baggage it carries around.

To call an animal to you , you have to keep your consciousness , your emotions, out of it.

We satisfy our emotional needs by allowing animals to suffer while we focus on the murder part of it. " Oh don't kill them, don't hunt them, let them die of starvation and disease and have long drawn out deaths because I am weepy over the quick respectful death of an animal. YOU don't have to observe animals suffering in the wild do you? And they have to suffer because YOU are uncomfortable with the end of their suffering.

Because we are uncomfortable with removing that which is a means to end our own suffering.


That is self indulgence and animals suffer for it.

If an animal REALLY suffers during a kill, its because one doesn't really know as much about it as they like to think. That perhaps should be left up to the hunters, not the eaters. People like to eat plants because they don't have owies when they die, there's no emotional projection to be made.

I have more respect for an integrated hunter, who kills respectfully than those people who flap their hands and moan over the fate of the animal in the gun-sight than those who honestly take the life of an animal with respect and know-how.

My people used to run with the King Stag to determine who would be leader of a clan. Sometimes the stag won. Did anyone flap and moan over the man who would be king. No. When the man won and became king, did anyone flap and mourn over the stag? It was an honest engagement, and the contracts of both parties were fulfilled in honesty. The promise the king made to the stag was to preserve the stag's herd in INTEGRITY, that meant not allowing the weak to weaken the herd. This is what the animals themselves would and will do if left to their own devices.

For the strong this is a matter of course, for the weak its something that can't be confronted because it triggers their own weakness.

Wolves eat the get that are weak. Eating the puppy and the placental matter ensures that the bitch's hormones are stimulated to feed the strong pups to perpetrate the strength of the pack. Wolves lead hardship lives and don't have time to babysit the weak. These are humans attributes where the emotionally and physically defenseless should be care taken at all times AT THE RISK THAT THE ENTIRE HERD WILL BE COMPROMISED not only in the present, but in future generations. And that is what we see today within our own social structures.

The animals that Mother Nature takes care of through natural means are typically those who are compromised parasitically.

And we wonder why we are in the state we are in now, where the weak constantly clamor for the strong to be brought down. Where the weak and the few are managing things when nature intends that the strong should lead. The compromised can't make decisions that benefit the greater good of all and the future, yet that is what we see attempted today.

Any unspoiled pack or herd of animals will show you that.

This is a program that has been developed from politics--extreme right conservatism. They use babies, unborn babies, and per-conceived babies to wring the emotional heart-strings. This covert program uses animals.

Animals are not our friends. if an animal chooses to have a symbiotic relationship with you, honor it for what it is, don't try to turn them into a source of emotional bandaging or fulfillment. The animal didn't choose you for the same reasons you think you are associating with the animal.

Meat used to be supplemental nutrition. You went out, you hunted,returned with nothing, and ate whatever was stored away and you were okay. You hunted, came back with a deer, and you had supplemental nutrition. One deer would last a family an entire winter. My family were farmers, they slaughtered a beef steak and a pig every year. Part of both was bartered for something else, the rest for food--no one ate meat everyday though. Two animals.

Typically to feed a family the same amount that my family ate would be dozens of animals, to eat the vast amounts that people for some reason think they need to eat, its hundreds of animals a year.

It was supplemental, part of any animal was used as seasoning and stock. It lasted a long time because of the way they cured it, and all of it was used.

Having to eat more than 4 to 12 ounces of meat a week is a dietary aberration. We need don't eat that way for any reason other than we think we need to. For some reason (media, advertising, our own greed, the FDA who gets its cut of every cow) we feel we have consume vast amounts of meat everyday, every meal, and in this bizarre portions -- 42 ounce t bone steak should last you more than a month. Now its consumed in a single meal. Where it used to be supplementation nutrition it's a filler. There's our parasitical.

Greed imposed on an animal at a psychic level is worse , how, than when its imposed on a physical level. On a physical level an animal can escape that greed, via death. While living the animal cannot except a human's psyche greed. A cat is on of the few animals that can escape human psyche greed. "Your lonely? **** you, I'm walking away. When you aren't so parasitical maybe I'll climb in your lap and have a mutual exchange of energy with you."

There is a much deeper subject and implications here on the part of the animal that transcends our emotional reaction that we impose on them. Much deeper subject to this than randomly killing animals and eating them.

We collectively raise and kill way more animals than what is necessary for supplemental nutrition. We kill for the wrong reasons. When we hunted naturally the strongest, the animals that provided strength to future generations, were not culled. A buffalo in their prime can stand off and out maneuver a horse and rider. It was typically the animals that couldn't that were taken--the ones who couldn't run as fast, or were perhaps dimmer than the others. They were not overtly weak and sick they were just not as strong. Still, the herd was improved by culling.

This is mother nature in action and she has no hesitation in culling the human herd either. Animals are far more leery of the human consciousness and all its weird sticky emotions than any weapons that may be wielded.

[wynderer]

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