Could You Do It?

[greybeard]

I could forgive.
In the OP forgiveness was asked for.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with condoning any act.
Jesus taught forgiveness without exception.

Nobody escapes the consequences of their actions---- The character presented in the opening post is not going to get away with it as such.
Call it Karma --Divine retribution any name you choose but sooner or later the perpetrator faces the consequences of his actions in full measure.
It is not down to me to be judge and executioner---thankfully I don't have to be.

Chris

[binemaya]

I think on our way to become the best we can be we will have to realize someday that we have been the worst too. that is the lesson here and this is how duality works. the hardest part is to forgive ourself. we are one. cheers!

[Anchor]

It seems to me that one of the basic principles of any system of duality must be that redemption is always possible. Without it, what has been separated cannot be rejoined into the one.

To my thinking, no matter how you dice it, finite, infinite, whatever density, this principle holds true, that redemption must be possible. Forgiveness, ultimately must be part of that since otherwise, the wheels of karma will keep turning.

In my case, I dont know the answer to the hypothetical situation in the OP as it is so extreme and outside my experience.

Would I have the right to offer forgiveness on behalf of my other-selves who have been wronged by this entity ? I am not sure what the answer is to that. Maybe if I was some fully supported head of my people and we all spoke with one mind I could. As an individual, I think not.

I would think that such a challenge would only be given the very strongest of us, and this would really not be about the one seeking redemption - but his opposite number, that is, in the one he seeks it from.

[Fred Steeves]

What a great discussion, and thank you for all of your thoughtful comments on this rather touchy subject. Personally speaking anyway, I don't really feel there is a right or a wrong answer, as every individual's answer would be correct for them. Please feel free to continue with your own, but here's the end scenario I had in mind, were I the meditator having this most unusual experience:

No sooner was the evil visitor forgiven, then with a gracious smile and a deep bow, he slowly dissolved into a disappearing mist, with these final words echoing softly behind in the stillness:

"Only once every few thousand lifetimes does this window open allowing us a brief moment with one another, and I have asked you the forgiveness question thousands of times. At long last you have relented, and chosen to forgive yourself for what others have long since forgiven you of. Welcome Home".

[Craig]

I am willing to go against the grain here, and say no and if I could I would wipe him from the planet. Oh don't get me wrong I would then not forgive myself and would torment over it, but I think I have reached that point where there can be no more forgiveness for sheer evil, sick of being a pawn in others power-plays, just wipe them all out. Seems like we die reincarnate and begin this jolly dance again anyway. I don't like sitting watching a beautiful sunset knowing that there are others who are being tortured for the pleasure of others. Perhaps rebooting him may change him, may not, but I couldn't just say Mate it's alright no worries, I would literally try and rip him to pieces, probably then set on a road to a dark place but if i can take more with me then more the better.

Higher level beings much higher than myself could probably forgive, but whilst I am stuck here I can't be the high and mighty that I should be, a failing on my part yes, but day to day I try and be the best that i can be and knock on wood I will never meet the evil mentioned in the OP. I just can't see why higher malevolent forces can play unhindered in the playbox of earth but the benevolent can't interfere cause it is against the law - it seems to be here is to be punished for previous crimes or something so perhaps this is our just desserts ultimately?

Jeez, what is it about flesh eating, blood drink demons that get me going? Probably picking up the frustrations of a million xmas shopping sheeple getting their material goods at the right price at the expense of others.

But no, no forgiveness from me. Perhaps if it was in my power I would hit him with all the fear that he has generated in others in one big strike that would just reduce him to atoms.

[RMorgan]

I didn´t like the end of the story Fred.

I´ve never killed anyone; I don´t even eat animals.

So, there´s no reason that I should ask for anyone forgiveness for taking someone´s life.

Forgiving him is totally different from forgiving myself for something I haven´t even done.

Even if you believe this "we´re all one" stuff, his karma is not my karma.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
I didn´t like the end of the story Fred.

I knew you wouldn't Raf.

[sirdipswitch]

Yes I forgave him, for I am one, with my HS/Source, and we did not hesitate. He will become a great asset, in helping to turn the rest.

Source is unconditional love, not bitterness and retribution.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by AriG (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I'm totally surprised by some of the responses in this thread to how easily many would just forgive this creep and send him on his way, because he chopped up and ate someone else's child instead of their own child.......

My response in post #11 is most likely what I'd do on a good day to this scumbag.....

Ok, here's a tough question that may be a little off topic, but maybe not..... Do you support capital punishment? It feels like the same argument, only in different dimensions.

Yes I do, especially for child killers....I do not enjoy supporting it though.

[Arrowwind]

I would tell him that I would forgive him but he must also do pennance and restitution. He must actively work to change his ways though real works of giving and compassion. The forgiveness he needs is not from me but from those he damaged. Ultimately he must forgive himself.

[mahalall]

A pedophile of the most dangerous type recently died in my arms.

As my colleagues shouted abuse behind closed doors.
I could only shake my head-for they do not know how they harm themselves.

As the person life faded, his shadows become hungry and in tactile presence. You could feel their excited pleasure as they pulled in their man. You can see the situation in front of your eyes-and for the poor person-his fear but yet relieve!

It's sickening to see and sickening to feel.

When their body is dead, one ponders what to do for such a spirit being drawn down.

Shockingly, directed and expanded love just seemed to nourish it and make it laugh.

A detached Wisdom-pardoning through acceptance required with these ones!

[spiritguide]

I would explain to the evil one that it is not my place to forgive him for harming others. That the only thing that he would find with me is the acceptance to not be his judge. Forgiving evil does not transform it and for it to transform it must live with itself. Evil exists on many levels and it's beyond my pay grade because the extent of harm caused is unknown even by the perpetrator. Forgive evil, I think not, banish it, yes, at least on this plain of existence..

[Wookie]

forgive yes, forget no, Good Evil two sides of a coin, they are inseparable in a dualistic mind set. Good and Evil are but lessons to be learnt, and some souls have a hard time passing the test. So while I do believe I would forgive the evil son of a ^%@*$, I feel as if a one way ticket back to source would be a fitting prize for an evil sob finally learning a valuable lesson.

Peaceful Journeys Wookie

[bodhii71]

I think perhaps Fred ( among many of you ) has seen beyond the veil...LOL. I find it is ego/self/separation that hangs itself in perpetual torment. The moment that is released, both transgressed and transgressor are freed.

Fred just says it better.

[westhill]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadodaho
Haudenosaunee legend...
Deganawida brought the Great Law of Peace to the 5 Iroquois nations with the help of Hiawatha (who had been a cannibal).
The last one to be converted was the worst, Tadodaho. His body was twisted with evil and had snakes in his hair. His people
feared him as an evil sorcerer. Tadodaho has come to mean "spiritual leader." Quite a transformation.

I haven't faced the kind of evil (or individual) Fred describes, but I've freed myself by forgiving. This is something you can't fake.
Evil hates that!

[enfoldedblue]

Hi Fred, what a great and important thread.

My personal response would be that because he entered my reality I would recognize him as representing an aspect of of myself. As a fractal of the ALL I contain everything, therefore I contain both the most beautiful and the most horrific. I believe I would have to forgive him if I had any hope of healing and returning to wholeness. If I chose to reject him I would be perpetuating the state of separation, which makes it possible for one person to cause pain and suffering to another. By choosing to forgive him I would be doing my part to heal some of the horrific depraved energies on the planet.

I believe true healing cannot occur without forgiveness.

Of course my forgiveness would only be a tiny piece of the bigger equation.

[Lazlo]

I couldn't forgive myself if I extended him grace and then he reverted and caused another horrible death to someone.

Maybe he was placed in front of me so that I could deny forgiveness and exact vengeance? Perhaps this is the lesson he required.

A large caliber hollow point in the gut and leave him for the carrion eaters.

[Samsara]

Yes, I would.

[DarMar]

To forgive to someone something does not have anything at all with him, it has with forgiver. You can not wash anyone's sin no matter how hard you tried. If i would need to forgive something in all that story, i would forgive myself for judgment cast on him.
Who are we to judge.

No i would never forgive him but simple because of one very simple fact. I would never mind him anything that he did in first place !!!
all he does, he does to himself, even if he tries to harm me or my closest, he still harms himself.
The only person who needs forgivenes is him, himself one and only.

i has nothing to do with his act.

love is wrongly assumed, it is not forgiveness... it is amongst many things UNDERSTANDING and acceptance for who he is, whatever he does and whatever he is.
to understand why he did that does not need to have judgmnent in first place.
If you truly love, you can not judge, you can not mind, so what's there let to forgive?

On other hand his question sounds more like pitfall-feedback loop trap more than any thing with forgiveness.

p.s. - interesting responses on your thread Fred, thanks for good question

[Wind]

I certainly wouldn't like him or his actions, but I would forgive him because he too is a child of God. We are not separate so I would be judging myself too if I refused to forgive him. My heart does not allow it. There are many atrocities happening in this world, but we need to see beyond them. No one will escape their own karma... True apology is the beginning. Then you can start working on your karma.

Only forgiveness stops the wheel of karma.