And then, there's silence...

[Arrowwind]

Posted by ceetee9 (here)
Are we up for the challenge? Or do you feel it's still someone else who needs to take the first real steps to improving our world? I must admit, perhaps my biggest frustration comes from the fact that I'm not even sure I can honestly say I'm up for the challenge--and that saddens me greatly.

I think people get frustrated when they think that change could only be up to them.. but really, it is not up to an individual but to a collective humanity, committed to a zillion different projects around the world. Make a difference in your home, your neighborhood, your work, your community. That is really all anyone can be realistically expected to do. Then support real visonaries and meaningful projects, those things that are big movers and shakers in what ever way you can.

[GloriousPoetry]

I knew nothing would happen on December 21, 2012 . One of the hardest things for humans to see is the light inside of themselves first. There's no true meaning in the group until this spiritual awakening happens uniquely inside every soul on the planet.

[applecrusher1992]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Hey folks,

Well, after literally hundreds of threads about December 21th 2012, I was expecting this forum to be very agitated by now, since the date has passed and nothing abnormal happened.

Instead, Project Avalon is silent...Sometimes silence can be more meaningful than words.

Ascension didn´t happen, a consciousness shift didn´t happen, the end of the world didn´t happen, and if some of you feel something different, you should consider the possibility of the placebo effect.

So, I´m really curious about what are you feeling by now. Do you feel frustrated?

If you do, know that it isn´t entirely your fault. You´re victims of a bunch of dishonest people who explored this date to generate revenue or to earn their fifteen minutes of fame.

However, these folks only made their ways out of anonymity because they had an audience, which includes you.

Anyway, personally, I see this thing as a great opportunity. It´s a good opportunity to review how your belief systems work, to stop being so naive and gullible.

It´s also a great opportunity to finally clean the alternative media and get rid of storytellers, opportunists and con men, who are destroying the alternative community.

It´s a great opportunity to focus on what really matters, which is how are we going to manage fixing our own world, all by ourselves.

Will we, as a collective, learn the lesson this time or will we fall for the next date in order to alienate ourselves from our real responsibilities once again?

So, what do you think? I would really like to read your conclusions about this issue, because these conclusions are extremely important to shape our future.

My best regards,

Raf.

Yeah, I have been feeling very frustrated lately. I have been following Drake, and others to see what comes out and my gullibility got the best of me. The blatant lies about the Sandy Hook shooting have also gotten to me too. The worse part is the majority of people actually believing in the lies that to me seem so false that I question whether the human race deserve to be free or if they should be enslaved by their tv. I tried to wake my parents up but I can't convince them fluoride, aspartame, and GMOs are bad. I can't convince them that something like the Sandy Hook shooting is a false flag and it may tie to the Libor Scandal. I may be wrong but pieces click too well to be a coincidence. My brother is also autistic and I know there are so many things such as detoxification that could help him but if I can't convince my parents then its not happening. My father is a open minded person and I think can see through all this but he just has given up on questioning things in this world with his age. And my family is in pretty good financial shape which means that is not a factor to push them to change. I have had terrible mood swings the past days and most have just been negative. I have had the worst Christmas ever. My Christmas wish was and is still for the world to know the truth and to continue on a path toward love, peace, and prosperity. But I don't know how I can personally use my skills and knowledge to move toward this goal. I still have hope but my patience is done and anyone who thinks there is a "plan" should realize you are the plan. No military, no Nesara, no Gemain fund, just us and every other human. Anyone who tells otherwise IMHO should show hard proof or shut-up. And if I am proven wrong and people like Drake , Cobra, and others are proven right then we really have stupid people working on this "plan". There excuses and supposed problems were so predictable. Hope porn can be just as bad as fear porn and for me it feels so much worse. I still think the cabal are going to lose but we have to show that we deserve our freedom. With peace and love

Karl

[Maia Gabrial]

I wondered WHEN someone was going to rub it into people's noses, Raf.... And that's more disappointing that nothing grand happening on December 21st.

I say that the shows NOT over until the fat lady sings. Just because it didn't happen on THAT date doesn't mean it's not happening. We're long overdue for a evolutionary leap.... Everything has a moment when it happens. Just because we failed to pinpoint that moment this time, doesn't mean give up. Even if we have the mathematics figured out to the nth degree, the Universe has its own timetable. That's where we went wrong, trying to pinpoint the impossible. IMO there were too many confounding variables, like galactic beings interfering, too many lies and deceit clouding the issues, too many doubts and skepticism influencing the outcome at least on a collective scale. However, I think on an individual level, the changes are continuing.... When I have something magnificent to share, the forum will be where I'll announce it. I'm still processing....

Yeah, I'm still optimistic about it all. I'm feeling all kinds of things that I've never felt before. I've never been psychic, had clear visions or been able to manifest as quickly as I am now. I seem to know what's going to happen next....Never happened before.....

I'm still hopeful for Earth's humanity as a whole. This optimism is influenced by the visions I've had. Mock me, if you will; but it won't matter. I know what I know....

Positive changes are coming in spite of all the skepticisms and doubts. Maybe when those emotions are eliminated from the equation, then it'll happen on a grander scale....

[9eagle9]

I’m sorry Maia some people are correct. This attitude is what has brought us to where we are right now.
I was dead serious when I praised those people who did not damage others. Did not feed the illusions, did not look the other way when the con artists and shills showed up. They did not feed circumstances that resulted in people being bitter, disappointed, lost and without a foundation. They did not contribute to predicted situations that the co – dependents latched on to .

Those are brave and fine and embattled people who made a contribution towards humanity by not feeding shallow illusions.

What did the con artists do? What did the people who supported their illusions do? Abolutely nothing but fan illusions, create more matrix.

They got just what they deserved. That is called KARMA. They got exactly what they wanted which was NOTHING, because that is what it was all along and you are kicking those people who seen that?

Now that the BS has been exposed for what it is its being called “rub in your face”?

When we have full disclosure and it’s not all that and a bag of cookies will that be called ‘rub in your face’?

If the events of 12-21 had transpired the way the lost sheep expected that really would have been ‘rub in your face.’

There will be no advancement that way. I know people are going to rush to defend this **** but you won’t get your evolution that way. People are going rush to defend the con artists and say ‘Oh their only human’ .

Yeah well isn’t that what we are supposed to be doing is transcending humanity and its foibles?

As long as we keep accepting this the longer the matrix will remain.

Some people have just advanced to where others have been at all along. Evolution is not reserved for just a few. Some people understood they could choose to evolve BEFORE 12-21. That i was never dependent on a date. And those people who knew that were correct. You think evolution just brings more incorrectness?

Face it. If these people could not see this coming they were not transcended, advanced or in ‘the know’.
Now we are excusing them for being liars?

Yes I KNOW that people don't like the idea of being played for a sheep. Now they have a chance to get out of the illusions , know they are sheep, and fix that. But not with this sort of attitude. This is not wisdom its sour grapes.

You don't think any one of us naysayers would just love to have some ray of light come in and fix things. We only KNEW and were CORRECT that things are not that easy.

Now YOU have a choice to quit accepting this BS, quit rationalizing it, excusing it. Are you going to take that chance? Or fall back into the same pattern?

If you truly want evolution you will. Otherwise you are just begging for something you don’t want. What you are saying is I want it, but I don’t want to do the work required for it. I am a co-dependent. A parasite things have to run based on my need, not the way they need to be run.

To fix what is wrong one has to not only find out what is right but ACCEPT what is right.

If you want things to go on the way they are before , other people will keep being wrong, others will keep being correct, the same old song and dance that brought us up to this point right now. People will continue to advance and evolve without you . you can’t stop them. A date won’t stop them, didn't stop them, and they will continue being correct. And it will stop bothering you that they are correct and have chosen balanced paths when you do it yourself.

Now that people are lost bitter and disappointed with no great sheme to base their hopes on they can come back inot the present and explore themselves, find out what is inside them that keeps yearning for these shallow pie in the sky illusions so they can break that cycle of disillusionment they create for themselves. Break the mechanisms that prompt them to keep accepting and excusing this ****.

The mechanisms that attack what is RIGHT. You think we are going to get out of our wrongness by attacking that which is Correct and RIGHT?

Yes we have to confront we are not as ‘advanced’ as we think we are.

First we have to confront our own co-dependnecy. Its not splashy and quantum, it doesn’t make us feel special but it begins that foundation of the evolution that you so crave.

Others want evolution too. I want it but no one is going to be free until every else is and its attitudes like that is holding us back. Some few of us are doing our work and the co-dependents are smacking them in the head while looking for the Drakes and Wilocks of the world to do their work for them.

We have just see for ourselves that no ‘work’ was done. Nothing was accomplished THEIR way.

Can we do that. No? Then we won’t evolve

by our choices that we made we will not.

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

Well, I have to stand up to defend myself here!

I have no control over anyone´s fingers and eyes, let alone noses. Whenever a person decides to click on my thread and read it, it´s because he/she has decided to do so.

So, I´m not rubbing anything into anyone´s noses. I have no power to do that.

I´m just sharing my opinions and thoughts here and no one is obliged to read them.

I try hard to be very polite while writing anything here, in order to avoid offending anyone...If you feel offended or if you feel some nuisance in your nose, it´s very unlikely to be my fault.

Anyway, thanks for everyone who decided to read and reply to this thread, even those who disagree with it.

I wish you all a very happy 2013.

Cheers,

Raf.

[ThePythonicCow]

When a magician needs to pull off a major work of magic, that can't be entirely hidden from plain view, he may also decide to put substantial effort into one or more distractions. If the distractions, in the end, vanish in a puff of smoke, that's OK. They served their purpose, both (1) giving the viewer some context, some "way to explain", what the onlookers might have noticed of the real trick, without revealing the trick, and (2) distracting the viewer's mind with irrelevant details, so their overloaded circuits notice fewer of the important details.

However my tin foil hat is still picking up strange signals on its two little antennae.

This Dec 21, 2012 event may have been one of the first big "false flag" events directed in particular at us in the "alternative media" world. It wasn't one big event, like 9/11, but rather the magic addicted bastards with too much power on this planet threw a bunch of stuff at us. Many existing "gurus", and quite a few more gurus concocted for the occasion, had various stories to tell, which bear the taint of the magicians' stage craft.

When the habitually lying con artist neighbor or relative starts throwing a blizzard of lies at you, your sixth sense tells you to be alert -- something is brewing -- someone is up to no good.

Every time that the bastards in power throw a major false flag of the more traditional kind at us, such as Pearl Harbor or 9/11, the news wasn't that what we saw was false. Rather the important news was that major changes were afoot, that we ordinary people would certainly not have consented to, had we known.

===

P.S. -- Those same bastards have also done a credible job of discrediting many of the more prominent people who did have, and may still have, genuine insights, knowledge, evidence or experience into our situation. For one example close to home, that may have been what "they" were attempting with Stephen Hodges and Bill Ryan, if Hodges was put up to his antics, not just acting on his own.

[Fred Steeves]

I'm very curious to pin down just exactly what we are decrying as 2012 hysteria, and just maybe there are even differing opinions of what that means. Copied below is a post I made a couple days ago in a different 2012 thread.

Now maybe I'm beginning to understand why all the hard core fuss here about the 2012 doom and gloom, and the silence afterwards. Apparently it's more because of people like the guy(Patrick Geryl) in the above interview and others like him? Because I just hadn't noticed any tremendous buzz about doomsday and ascension actually here with Avalon members. I don't really pay much attention to stuff like that as there is so much bs, and so much to actually learn through talking to people right here, so there you go...Not paying attention?

Cheers,
Fred

P.S.
Am I correct in my assesment? Or does this also include anyone who thinks this is a changing of Ages, and/or that there is a continuing tremendous shift in Awareness occuring? I would really like to get this nailed down once and for all. If we're talking apples to oranges, I can certainly see why the confusion.

So yeah, I'm thinking it would be a real shame for us to start slamming the doors of our minds shut, just because of psy op 2012 mind f**k crap, that of course didn't happen. So someone please just talk to me plainly and simply, like I'm a third grader, and explain exactly the difference between what has now been "debunked", what is "officially" still possible, and what can still be talked about here without snickers in the background.

Thanks,
Fred

[RMorgan]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
I'm very curious to pin down just exactly what we are decrying as 2012 hysteria, and just maybe there are even differing opinions of what that means. Copied below is a post I made a couple days ago in a different 2012 thread.

Now maybe I'm beginning to understand why all the hard core fuss here about the 2012 doom and gloom, and the silence afterwards. Apparently it's more because of people like the guy(Patrick Geryl) in the above interview and others like him? Because I just hadn't noticed any tremendous buzz about doomsday and ascension actually here with Avalon members. I don't really pay much attention to stuff like that as there is so much bs, and so much to actually learn through talking to people right here, so there you go...Not paying attention?

Cheers,
Fred

P.S.
Am I correct in my assesment? Or does this also include anyone who thinks this is a changing of Ages, and/or that there is a continuing tremendous shift in Awareness occuring? I would really like to get this nailed down once and for all. If we're talking apples to oranges, I can certainly see why the confusion.

So yeah, I'm thinking it would be a real shame for us to start slamming the doors of our minds shut, just because of psy op 2012 mind f**k crap, that of course didn't happen. So someone please just talk to me plainly and simply, like I'm a third grader, and explain exactly the difference between what has now been "debunked", what is "officially" still possible, and what can still be talked about here without snickers in the background.

Thanks,
Fred

Hey Fred, my brother!

Well, I believe what was mostly debunked, once again, is the thought that humans have the ability to predict the future, specially when attaching such predictions to a date.

About the many pseudo-theories behind the 2012 myth, well, I believe they never had a solid foundation in the first place.

As an example, the thought that a quantum consciousness leap or "ascension" would happen because of the end of a 26.000 cycle or because the increase of supposed cosmic energies caused by a galactic alignment never actually had any substance.

Questions like "how the end of a 26.000 cycle could possibly influence our lives?" , "why the end of an ancient calendar would be meaningful?" and "why a galactic alignment would supposedly unleash different energies and how such unknown energies would influence us?" were never answered, because the people who first proposed such ideas actually formed them out out of pure speculation...When people try to answer such questions they just go around in loops, using other unfounded pseudo-theories to pretend their answer makes sense.

Of course, my friend, anything is possible, but man, the people pretending to have knowledge about "mystical" cosmic events in order to make their "theories" look realistic are the ones who got debunked big time on this one.

This whole 2012 thing, in my opinion, became just like a crazy building supported by countless pseudo-theories that are as strong as rotten wooden sticks...A bunch of senseless theories trying to become stronger by grouping themselves with another bunch of senseless theories, forming something like a nonsense cluster.

About this tremendous shift in awareness that you describe, I don´t know how things are where you live, but down here in Brazil, it all looks the same to me; People just doing what they usually do, walking around like zombies, working, consuming, eating fast food, protesting for futile reasons like soccer and complacently ignoring corruption.

Please, don´t get me wrong, my friend, I also can´t wait to see some real change in the world, but as far as I can observe, I´m not seeing any major independent changes in the mindset of the masses.

Will the masses wake up before it´s too late? I don´t know...Maybe yes, maybe no.

However, so far, I haven´t seeing any behavioral trend that tranquilizes me about the future of the human race.

Anyway, analyzing the gigantic amount of epic failed predictions accumulated since the begining of recorded history, I suspect that whenever something BIG happens, it wont be predicted at all.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Fred Steeves]

Thanks Raf. Yeah, it's a wide open field huh? I reckon falsities get so deeply ingrained with truths that eventually asses meld with elbows. (LOL) To try and cut through all the bs hooplah, I'll tell you where I'm coming from:

I think we are most certainly in a window of opportunity for anything to happen. A window however makes not a single day. The idea that one certain day changes everything is ridiculous, but then again, why do we celebrate holydays and birthdays?

I think the 2012 thing has been bastardized just like every other thing under the sun. Just look at long ago hijacked symbols, and how astrology is mostly thought of the same way as the comics section in the newspaper. TPTB live and die by the cycles and orbits of planets, suns, galaxies, etc., but we are taught it's foolishness.

I don't see a mass awakening either, and I'm becoming more and more certain it's an individual thing, not a mass populous thing. However, I DO see more of society in general sniffing in the air that something is terribly wrong.

So anyway man, I know something's going on, balls to bone as the Oracle said to Neo, and it's a shame that the 2012 scam has successfully discredited any out of the box insights. I'll keep posting whatever comes to mind though, and if that lumps me in with the crowd of ascension into the clouds or Earth flipping upside down, then so be it.

Cheers Mate,
Fred

[geoffbyrd]

I for one am not in the least disappointed. The gloom and doom crowd was the nocebo, if I may say so myself. It does seem to me that there is a definite shift in the archetypal evolution of human consciousness, not overnight with the pacific ocean wiping out the Himalayas but rather more like the Renaissance bringing us ever so gradually out of the dark ages. Just a couple of rather trite but not insignificant examples: When I was a teen everyone smoked and I learned how myself hacking and practicing looking cool in the mirror while today smoking is practically anathema. Same with drinking and driving, I remember when the police might pull somebody over and good naturedly suggest they take it easy and try to stay in the road, today the social stigma is loud and clear, punitive even! It took decades for the "masses" to get conscious about this kind of thing, and it does seem like more and more issues affecting humanity are being flushed out for reevaluation. The future is looking better to me even as we are facing our own individual and collective "judgment day" as humanity has dragged primitive consciousness of fear, greed, corruption, divisiveness and war into yet another millennium. At the same time there has never before been such a shift in human consciousness toward the light of Divine Intelligence, Peace and Love.

[we-R-one]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
Hey folks,

Ascension didn´t happen, a consciousness shift didn´t happen, the end of the world didn´t happen, and if some of you feel something different, you should consider the possibility of the placebo effect.

So, I´m really curious about what are you feeling by now. Do you feel frustrated?

If you do, know that it isn´t entirely your fault. You´re victims of a bunch of dishonest people who explored this date to generate revenue or to earn their fifteen minutes of fame.

Anyway, personally, I see this thing as a great opportunity. It´s a good opportunity to review how your belief systems work, to stop being so naive and gullible.

It´s also a great opportunity to finally clean the alternative media and get rid of storytellers, opportunists and con men, who are destroying the alternative community.

It´s a great opportunity to focus on what really matters, which is how are we going to manage fixing our own world, all by ourselves.

Will we, as a collective, learn the lesson this time or will we fall for the next date in order to alienate ourselves from our real responsibilities once again?

So, what do you think? I would really like to read your conclusions about this issue, because these conclusions are extremely important to shape our future.

My best regards,

Raf.

Hey Raf,

Personally for me, ascension is happening and a shift in consciousness has/is taking place. I believe the definition of ascension needs to be clarified. When I refer to ascension this is the definition I use:

ASCENSION- On an individual level, ascension is the process of changing one’s consciousness from one reality, based on one set of beliefs, to another. On a group or planetary level, ascension is the collective expansion of a state of consciousness (set of beliefs) to the point where that consciousness creates a new reality—a new state of being or dimension (*The Hundredth Monkey Syndrome).

For example, 3D is about the belief that, this is the only life that we have and if you can’t touch it, taste it, see it, feel it or hear it, it doesn’t exist. 5D, is about Christ or Unity consciousness where we realize that we are all connected—we understand and live in oneness.
Source: Jelaila Starr

Clearly science backs what I'm eluding to if you look at the study of Epigenetics or the work of www.heartmath.org. Ascension is taking place, but unfortunately many are using the wrong definition. If you look at what's happening to our society today, are we not seeing a break down of our reality? Are we not seeing more people becoming heart-centered? Is it not apparent that more people are coming to the conclusion that we are all connected as one?(which again is proven through the study of energy fields that surround all of us). I find what I'm describing very apparent in fellow Avalonians posts and also amongst the general population. This is not a placebo effect.

To observe the shift in consciousness, I have to look no further than my own experiences which have been remarkable over the past several years. Even decades before the main portion of my awakening, I was experiencing a raise in consciousness through my own kundalini experience. So if nothing's happening, how does one explain what I have experienced? I am no one special. I have never studied meditation nor do I have any formal training under my belt as one would expect in order to achieve the very state of consciousness needed to create such a profound moment. You see no guru taught me, I did not read some book and then decide to have these experiences. Where did I find the answers? I looked within, and was able to learn based on my own organic abilities. So I don't fit the mold that many insist on using to explain away what I have been through as insignificant occurrences. There is no frustration....in fact, if today I breathed my last breathe, I'd be more than grateful that I came to Earth and did what I was suppose to do, I have no regrets.

In my eyes, I'm experiencing the very thing you say isn't happening. So if you doubt anything I'm sharing, please see "the solutions" thread under Spirituality, as your answers lie there. It's time to re-define the meaning of ascension and the "new" science is there for confirmation, so I have to ask, why aren't more taking a look? Why do we keep doing the same thing over and over again? Why do we insist on utilizing the same 3D thinking that's enslaving us?

Per your comments,....
"It´s a great opportunity to focus on what really matters, which is how are we going to manage fixing our own world, all by ourselves."

what really matters? what are our real responsibilities? - I'm asking what you suggest since you have brought the question to the forefront.

[Dawn]

I decided to make those 2 days sacred in order to celebrate the cosmic alignment that was (and is still) occurring. I spent 2 days in meditation cycles and this felt wonderful. There is always a deep peace and a sense of expansion that comes with meditation. Arising before the sun on both days and starting a repeating cycle of meditations was a wonderful experience.

I had a wonderful 12-21-12 and 12-22-12. There has been a lot of information out there from very wise people for many years that did not support any type of 'big bang' or 'spectacular' event on those days. These people had studied the Mayan calendar and other ancient texts as well as doing their inner work. These people were the ones I resonated with, rather than those spreading hype and thrills. Some of my friends, who are near and dear to my heart, bought into the 'new age' expectations totally. I realized that they are very unhappy with life-as-it-is-now. Planning for a new age gave them something to look forward to with hope. They have my deepest compassion.

I expect many changes to occur in our reality over the next decades. Much of it will be fueled by the energies available from the alignment we are now experiencing. The old teachings around the planet never did point to a sudden Armageddon, but to the dawning of a new age. And just as in a day here, the dawn begins slowly.

Of course some of the Christian texts did point to Armageddon, however these were not ancient texts but added to within the past 2,000 years by despots and TPTB as a control measure. There was a lot of effort by many to actually force something like Armageddon to happen... thank goodness they weren't successful.

I have noticed a GREAT deal of change within human consciousness in my 60+ years here. The Avalon Forum is often living proof of this. There are so many more people I can relate to today than there were 20 years ago. The awakening has already begun and is doing just fine! (IMHO)

[JohnEAngel]

i was not expecting ascension nor was i expecting the end of the world but i was hopeful of some event that would raise humanity out of this Hotel California. is such a hope a far-fetched dream? i too have experienced personal ascension for the last 3 years and it grows every day and it is reality to my being. and i began this before the hype of December 21st starting growing into a commanding influence and before i even considered it. there is a change afoot. that is for certain. unlike any other time. this forum is a demonstration of that. and so i am drawn to this diversity of thought that provokes the interaction and exchange of debated reasoning. as most know or believe that we are all as one, we are still set apart by our personal experience wrapped up in the cocoon of our ego and we will certainly have different positioning. the key though is to respect each of our other-selves and to not depreciate their personal understanding, opinions and expectations. peace and love to you my brothers and sisters.

[gooty64]

Well, I have to stand up to defend myself here!

I'm sure you'll recover

[modwiz]

The 21st created a lot of cleansing and shed enormous light in dark places. Much was revealed. Illusions were shattered that were preventing real movement. A blanket was suddenly removed. A question will be how many look to just pull the blanket over themselves again, roll over and go back to sleep.

"Roll me another one, just like the other one."

[giovonni]

And then ... after finally reaching and experiencing with other friends the most hyped date in modern history of 12/21/12 ...

i simply sighed and acknowledge to myself... ascension is what it is...

'the act of rising to an important position or a higher level of being' ...

which evoked a peaceful realization and feeling upon me of their silence.

[9eagle9]

Why are we so attached to the We Are One , Collective, Mass Ascension and Awakenings and the assorted fluff and powder that go with them.

Before a solution is provided one would think a very deep exploration of this paradigm that so many are attached to not only in Christian philosophies but the New age ones as well.

I tis actually a symptom of much deeper wound.

Elevating a collective wound as enlightenment is hardly what I call a solution.

An individual who is so strongly sure of themselves that they can live in harmoniously with others in a collective sense.

Wounded people all flung together in a tangle gasping they are one? That's an achievement?

Which sounds more appealing?

When approached on an individual level we can have achievements. This collective mind trap we have offers pie in the sky goals with no measureable collective progress.

Without a thorough understanding of the problem a blanket solution is no solution at all because we are individuals forged that way not only by this life time’s experiences but the experiences of other lives. By the experiences of other people, even that we have had imposed on us morphologically speaking we come to understand other lives are someone elses lives. If one studies the tarot that is a realization (not a solution) that one comes to.

Energy surges were not a solution nor heralded a solution but people milled all over the place gasping something must be about to happen. It did. Energy surged.

People gasped that the planets were all in alignment. and so they did. Now they are no longer in alignment so obviously that was no solution.


Solutions are not on collective levels only on individual levels for that reason. YOu can have a meaningless goal that stays in the heart or you can have progression that is expressed in one's physical life.

We have all just witnessed the failure of scores of blanket solutions based on collectivism, oneness, mass awakening. The event itself is one of mass awareness, if one doesn’t immediately retreat into denial, or petulance because their expectations were dashed. Blame the collective for that the individual didn't make any such promise. The individual has been taken out of the equation. Unfortunately mass , we are one, anything is going to fail because the collective is composed of…individuals.

There are far few people who have worked on core values stemming from this life time that allow entry into this deeper inner explorations where we arrive closer at a ‘solution’—let alone the deeper ‘out of ourselves’ experience.

This is where the mass ascension and mass awakening fables come from in the first place with the misplaced intention that we are somehow One in a 3d realm where the function of being individual in a cooperative way is the only basis of not only survival but evolution.

It is a basically a symptom of a deeper wound. Self loathing.

Below that is an even deeper shared wound. i’m thinking shared wounds are really no solution at all. Imposing shared wounds as 'solution' is not really a solution at all.

These MASS , Collective we are one paradigms however completely dismiss the processes of the individual all 7 billion of them and skips to a sort of superficial bandaid for everyone.

Please look at this word IN-Divide (ual) and let open a whole path of exploration AND experience for you for you.

It is obvious to our poor bare eyes that we are not ‘one’. Not yet. Our work hasn’t hardly even begun to be initiated on an individual level to come anywhere close to ‘one.’ ‘mass’ collective.

These notions are found in deeper exploration and are found collectively in deeply wounded place that humans actually do collectively share. The paradigm of living in a shared state of woundedness is decidedly unappealing. The one thing we do all share is a basic similar template but those are all different too. We’d not know that though unless we got back to an exploration of our origins.

A mass collectively expression of a wound is no solution at all.

I have questions for people who promote that sort of thing.

Are you willing and have the resources to delve in the formative constructs of every individual on earth, and piece together what went wrong with them on a personal level not only in this life but others?

Do you have the ability to know their basic template even if it differs from yours?

Do you have the time energy and resources to do that? Does anyone?

Looked at from that scope can we still say we are one. A mass, a collective when the individual experiences are so varied there’s seldom a common thread to even imply oneness.

Still think of it as a solution ? Seem easier if the solution were on an individual level?

With individual explorations nothing external is needed. With collective ones which don't examine the problem, external contrivances that don't exist are required. Rays of light, photon belts, galatic alignments and of course everyone else to make up the 'we are one' paradigm.

This is refusal to see people on an individual level pushing our ‘we are one ‘ or mass and collective agenda when it should be fairly obvious we all come from different cultures, religions, family structures, genetics, races, generations, morphological structure and influences, and differing but basic templates.

How our environments, inwards and outwards have influenced us—all alternative life paradigms—all of this constantly redirects us closer to a solution because we more clearly see the problem. This creates an individual experience for everyone not just in this life but other lives. How our influences of other existences we may be experiencing right now are influencing this one. No two experience life (lives) the same way . Mass collective or we are one collectivism is no solution at all but an illness. One does not see it as a problem until one clearly understands the problem though.

It is a vaguely defined goal point but do we ever stop and ask ourselves WHY we want such a goal? There’s a whole lot of answers towards a solution when we pause and ask ourselves that.

That sort of solution stops before its even begun with the first individual this is not a blanket cure it stops with the with the first individual that the solution does not address—on an individual levels. One puts a ill defined and illusionary collective over the living breathing individual. That is no solution. That is not even approaching a collective solution if one person is left out of the equation.

Face it we can be free unto ourselves if we approached this the correct way but not EVERY one will be free, even the most enlightened people I know are not free, until everyone is. Because no matter how far you skid up the ladder someone else, another individual is always waiting to impose their taxes, their moral decay, their illusions onto you.

Individuals yes and the whole path ways should be addressed as such but we are not islands unto ourselves. Unfortunately this blanket we are one collective solution forces others into islands unto themselves to preserve what little freedoms they have earned for themselves.

Yes we have a basic template, some are different, some have variances to them, but their pretty basic. The same way a vehicle will have a chassis and a body and an engine. One will see that where our commonality ends at that basic template, because generational influences on all facets of ourselves have been influenced, fashioned and forged differently—individually. A model T is much different now than a Ford F 150. Their both still Fords though. What drives the vehicle is individual to the make and model. One has four cylinders the other six. This is where we are one, or the ‘mass or collective’ conditioning starts and stops---far short of a solution.

If we were still at our basic template no solution would be needed at all.

Nothing will be achieved on a collective or mass basis until all individuals have addressed their far reaching inner formations. Good bad or indifferent. They will still remain individuals that have come to a commonly shared awareness.

. Heart centered teachings do very little good for those who cannot access it and the reason they cannot access heart centered expressions is because the problem has not been explored to its depths, let alone solved because the problem is not understood in our haste to rush to a solution. Heart centered does not examine the mental body, the problem solving aspect that is a very important aspect of ourselves.

Without comprehensive examination of the problem which spans thousands of years, it is childish to think some collective solution waits. Nor is it the ‘solution’ that is in error, its people’s failure to explore the problem before providing a solution that will fail just like a plethora of them just recently failed on dark black Friday.

There is a REASON that the shamans, medicine people, and druids studied for DECADES in order to use basic tools of self exploration and self-excavation of genetics, dna, morphic resonance, and our origins. These people will ask you first question where do you come from? And if you do not know how to answer that question in any way shape or form, physically, psychologically, environmentally and how any one of those three shaped you good, bad or indifferent one is then compelled to take that journey inward. One is most certainly not qualified to provide a solution if that exploration has not been made and its fairly easy once one is on their own journey to see who has and who just talks about superficial solutions that exist only as thoughts to keep the mind tied up and away from the inner informational foundations.

If one cannot see this life is a series of reincarnation events I’d have to say that the solution on an external level is pretty far off. But very basically you are not the same person you were when you were a child. You don’t have the same life.

Love does not cure everything it is driving force of the creation matrix not the matrix itself.

Vivek has yet another fine thread on creation matrix concerning our origins . Reflecting on that and what it means to YOU the individual is, the ONE Of many is where one can start etching the bare sketchings of a solution. Understanding the creation matrix helps us to understand the dark side of the matrix that we all seem to want to escape from.

I notice that these sorts of threads are not often inhabited which leads me to suppose the people haven’t even gone through this varied processes that have been built on the collective template. Yet for some reason feel qualified to impose a solution. You can't have the solution until the problem has been explored indepth on the individual level.

Without a comprehensive examination of the template, and what was built from it here is no sure identification of the problem. Let alone a solution.

A solution that inevitably has to be worked out in another life time, one is putting a ball and chain on themselves now to impeded another experience.

Without at least an abstract understanding of our origins, and how we have been shaped, and formed to our current state of existence, there is no solution in the present.

I see people not understanding and misusing tools that help us with this inner exploration. Tarot, numerology, astrology, and kabbalah to name a few. . These are not meant to be used as singular disciplines but used together lend a comprehensive guideline to our origins, our genetic structures, our psyche structures, and what paths they have taken us down previously. Superimpositional tools. If one picks up a numerology chart without superimposing it over the companion disciples one is further corrupting themselves not arriving closer to a solution. The use of companion discliplines gives a MULTI DIMENSIONAL LOOK at the problem.

Bottom line there has been great psychic trauma imposed on humanity. Accumulative trauma that tends to attract more conditions of trauma experiences. Removing our traumas one by one and exploring how they got there, how they were imposed on us and then releasing them not just in this life time but in others. Ancestrally we are connected to our own past. . If you have haven’t removed Aunt Betty’s trauma imposed on her when she was in a concentration camp you are no more closer to a solution than Aunt Betty was.

Removing all that gets us down to where we collectively suffered this trauma, and then beyond is where we find that solution. Then we can say that we took our individual journeys there and arrived at somewhat of the same place back down at the basic template. You won’t know it till you go there on your individual journey.

One knows the basic template again. One then can decide what experiences can be leveraged away, and ones that can be kept or a fuller existence.

The likelihood that 7.2 billion people will do this is marginally slim. That is no reason for the individual to refuse that journey even if they can't drag along a collective set of companions.

If had taken that journey with others I would be formed merely by their opinions which are marginally less than what I really am.

Instead I see gurus saying to get rid of your memories they aren’t yours. Because they aren't yours doesn't mean you need to shed it particularly if it provides to you some sort of knowledge that you will progress by.

Ignore it all and think about being a quantum being instead of using the tools that allow you to experience your quantumness. Express it on a living level.

Removing life times of trauma helps us to get closer to collectively share trauma and beyond that to see basic template. If people had used their tools and honored the sacredness of them astrology wouldn’t have misled them because the sister disciplines would have directed one much deeper than what the stars told on the surface. I wouldn’t the least pay attention to an astrologist who was not a numerologist who was not a witness to the tree of life who was not an adept at tarot. They are only giving one facet of a much larger picture.

These are the tools that meant for employment on the collective level.

Nailing down that universal trauma in that wounded place where shared that trauma is the basis of ‘we are one, and collective and mass philosophies. That people keep insisting we recreate these scenariors --- we are one scenarios, mass collections, mass solutions—herd animal mentalities—is what keeps us from advancing.

We see this re-enacted out daily with people trying to stay in that trauma ‘as one’ ‘mass’ collective’ umbrella solutions instead of taking the individual journey inwards alone. Our mass ascensions and mass awakenings and 'we are one' yearnings are reflections of that shared mass trauma. A wound. Solutions sprung from that are simply imposing more psychic trauma on each other.

It says I don't want to be lonely anymore.

That is a solution?

People who tell me they don’t have to mediate or use tools or employ steady mental displines but thus think they are defined to offer a solution? Should I let them give me a kidney transplant to. Where did they learn the mechanics of the matrix if not through disciplining themselves through the mechanics of the creation matrix?

Only because after all these long lonely centuries we have resided in this collective ‘we are one’ wound so it is merely familiar to us. Do we not even question WHY mass , collective, we are one paradigms are so important to us? Is milling about in a mass wound even though we are not alone and its familiar our most exceptional outcome we can expect for ourselves?

That redefines our limitations and shows us again how easily we are led by limited expressions.

In the collective I see a lot of people who don’t even have the recall of generational memories, morphic resonances, that could provide some answers to them. People who don’t have the basic skills to meter them. People who lack active listening skills, active observational skills. People who practice astrology without sister companions that would form healthy foundations from their explorations. . That doesn’t show the path it merely expresses how the path was formed. That is further corruption and confusion not enlightenment.

I do see some few people with a complex or even abstract deep understanding of facets of the problem. The Horus Ra thread, there is a facet of the problem, Viveks most exceptional exploration of Origins. That thread is particularly not well inhabited, his threads seldom are but for the few people who are exploring the problem to the extent they are well rounded enough to start casting SOLUTIONS (plural) but it does lend great bearing on how events would occur that are defined in the Horus Ra thread.

If you do not know where you came from and how you were formed over the incomprehensible span of time it took to bring you to this point in time how can we say we understand the problem enough to provide a solution. If we are not using the rather simple tools of exploration and excavation there is no blanket solution. No mass solution, no mass awakenings, no mass , collective arrivals if the departure has not yet occurred.

You cannot fix nor provide a solution if one is not fuly comprehending the problem starting on the individual level. This means you have to fully comprehend the problems stretching back through time of each individual .

Far easier me thinks to allow the individual to process what they find in their own journeys and not impeded them with bandaid solutions that would tempt and distract them away from that all important search for the basic template.

A surge of energy qualifies a person not.

[Mozart]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)

Far easier me thinks to allow the individual to process what they find in their own journeys and not impeded them with bandaid solutions that would tempt and distract them away from that all important search for the basic template.

Wow, 9eagle9, what a post. I really admire your deep mind.


I'd love to carry on this discussion in this thread, but I'm just too busy with too many things that I need to do, so I hope to carry on this discussion someday soon when I have more time.

[Youniverse]

Whew! I'm gonna read the rest of that from 9eagle9 when I get the chnace, ha ha. I like what I did read though! The idea you expressed about love being the driving force, not the matrix itself, sounds consistent with my experience and also with what teachers like Eckhart Tolle has said. Tolle descibes love as the 'river', that flows to the source or All That Is.