Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

[Gemini]

Based on what Rahkyt and Modwiz wrote about the signs and basic elements, I have to say Air describes my character pretty well. Although it's very simplified as such. I wonder how well it works with describing others though.

Are you an Air Sign by any chance, Modwiz?

I would guess 9eagle9 is Fire. Apart from being very spiritual, at least you have a fiery nature, by my observation, and you have that flame icon in your signature.

That's just me having a little fun trying to be clever.

BTW, thanks for this fascinating thread as I have no earlier understanding of these subjects. I'm looking forward to learning more!

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces, Water Signs, are obviously the folks who are going to represent the extremities of its expression in the world, being ruled by their emotional centers. Because the Earth Signs, Capricorn, Taurus and Virgo, get along so well with the Water Signs, and are also extremely emotional, they have many of the same issues. The Air Signs, Libra, Aquarius and Gemini are head-ruled, more detached, as are the Fire Signs, Aries, Leo and Sagittarius.

Posted by modwiz (here)
Fire is associated with the quality of Spirit. Air with the quality of intellect or mentality. Water with the emotions. Earth with he physical body and tangibility. That would be things that are tangible and can be worked or held in the hands.

[write4change]

I need to come back and read this thread. thanks for posting it.

[9eagle9]

Good shot.

Fire and Water. A cusp baby. I'm fortunate to have a balanced chart, but those are my essential elements. Fire and Water makes up for 'can't remember ****'. Some few notice my water, but most overlook it because they think fire means anger so its a convenient label for 'fire'.

Its mostly constant state of face palm.

I couldn't find a face palm flame.

[modwiz]

Posted by Gemini (here)
Based on what Rahkyt and Modwiz wrote about the signs and basic elements, I have to say Air describes my character pretty well. Although it's very simplified as such. I wonder how well it works with describing others though.

Are you an Air Sign by any chance, Modwiz?

I would guess 9eagle9 is Fire. Apart from being very spiritual, at least you have a fiery nature, by my observation, and you have that flame icon in your signature.

That's just me having a little fun trying to be clever.

BTW, thanks for this fascinating thread as I have no earlier understanding of these subjects. I'm looking forward to learning more!

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Cancer, Scorpio and Pisces, Water Signs, are obviously the folks who are going to represent the extremities of its expression in the world, being ruled by their emotional centers. Because the Earth Signs, Capricorn, Taurus and Virgo, get along so well with the Water Signs, and are also extremely emotional, they have many of the same issues. The Air Signs, Libra, Aquarius and Gemini are head-ruled, more detached, as are the Fire Signs, Aries, Leo and Sagittarius.

Posted by modwiz (here)
Fire is associated with the quality of Spirit. Air with the quality of intellect or mentality. Water with the emotions. Earth with he physical body and tangibility. That would be things that are tangible and can be worked or held in the hands.

Good going Gemini. I am an Air Sign, Aquarius. My Moon is in Gemini as well. My Scorpio ascendant can make me intense as well as 'cryptic' at times.

9eagle has already answered you.

[Ultima Thule]

I don´t know whether this is the place to ask about your opinions on the following - but I´ll just go on and ask it anyway

Considering astrological charts, do you reckon that the notion I read somewhere is somewhat true: the astrological chart at the moment of previous incarnation is identical(or close to anyway) to the one on the time of birth into the next incarnation - thus carrying something essential of that individuated point of view/person through the incarnations?

This I started to wonder, as we have previously talked about the energetic bodies carrying signatures of past experiences etc. Is there a common theme with astrology?

UT

[PurpleLama]

Successive incarnations should carry strong astrological correlations. However, that may mostly be applied to on who has not taken up some form of conscious evolution. One has the potential to learn, evolve, to beat the game, so to speak, in which case one may form a new template with different influences to learn by, or overcome, as the case may be.

[PurpleLama]

Yep, that scorpio ascendant 'splains a lot.

[modwiz]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
I don´t know whether this is the place to ask about your opinions on the following - but I´ll just go on and ask it anyway

Considering astrological charts, do you reckon that the notion I read somewhere is somewhat true: the astrological chart at the moment of previous incarnation is identical(or close to anyway) to the one on the time of birth into the next incarnation - thus carrying something essential of that individuated point of view/person through the incarnations?

This I started to wonder, as we have previously talked about the energetic bodies carrying signatures of past experiences etc. Is there a common theme with astrology?

UT

I think this is a good place to ask, since it is not about interpreting a chart. I think the notion of identicality is not one I resonate with. I do believe they are connected, for sure, to ensure and continuity and coherence. I always tend to issue a disclaimer when discussing "past" lives because of my understanding of simultaneous time, in the bigger picture. At the core of all of the incarnations is the eternal Self, outside of time 'working' all of these lives as extensions into this reality/dimension.

I think the overall concept of a continuum is valid and true, and astrology is one of the tools for marking the separate but connected incarnations.

[9eagle9]

An astrological chart will never be identical because the constellations are always in movement. What you've built on previously before will remain there though.

Simply learning astrology is not sufficient to make it serviceable. a chart is a chart and is fairly straightforward. Having a basic understanding of how natural elements court with each other, mythology, archetypes, symbology, and numbers would help one get a multi layered 360 view of their chart. Leaving the chart out of it entirely and understanding the nature of planetary 'rulers' or tides is helpful.

We have a core persona we carry with us wherever we exist. But you can ferret out what is other life influence, what has built you to the point of birth and what elements within will either inhibit, challenge or support your potentials by using a companion discipline. You can then see what specifically could be what some called karmic events. What has such intensity its hindering one's personal growth, and what has such power that it may overcome all qualifiers and simply express itself.

Astrology was not designed to be used in a singular sense. It's a template or a foundation that other tools can be applied for specifics.

[9eagle9]

This I started to wonder, as we have previously talked about the energetic bodies carrying signatures of past experiences etc. Is there a common theme with astrology?

Astrology indicates past experiences in a sort of generalized way, you can get a general archetypical scenario from astrology. Other disciplines will paint a picture of it. If its in there, and you have not ferreted it out in the life time in question it is likely playing out in this life time. Then you can get the specifics with some self explorations. Patterns that keep coming up in people's lives.

Personal growth building in other life experiences are one's strengths or potential for strengths in this life time, that will emerge on their own once the weaknesses are ferreted out.

Those will resonate in our emotional energy, they have a vibe, wound resonance.

[Ultima Thule]

Thanks for the answers.

One could question what is the basis for astrology, why would the planets have an effect on the persona? For me it makes more sense that for a "persona" or the certain energetics of a soul to incarnate, it cannot do it in an arbitrary manner, but will have to find a matching moment, where as much as possible of what he/she is, can be translated into the earthly habitat, allowed by the energy at large of the moment. Not unlike playing Sims or some other computer game, where you choose the body, hair, eyes etc. of your character to match your own "live"-looks, but you never get it exactly, just as close as possible.

UT

[Ultima Thule]

Aww, cmon!
I wanna hear more about the EMOTIONAL body!!! I wan´t to!
Did I mention, that I neeeeeeeeed to hear more!

UT

[modwiz]

The real important piece of knowledge about the Emotional body is how it works in tandem with the Intellectual or Mental body. I will be abbreviating these as Eb and Mb henceforth. The Mb provides a structure, hopefully LOL, for the Eb to fill. The Eb is like water and will get all over the place unless managed by a containment of some sort. SO let me put in a good word for the Eb. Like water it loosens things up and is required for life as we know it. Without the Eb we would be cold, without feeling and rigid. These last three qualities are ones of the Mb. The rigidness of the Mb does allow for a containement field for the Eb. The watery nature of the Eb influences the Mb to be more supple. I hope the poetry here is both apparent and helpful.

So these two subtle bodies work in a Yin/Yang relationship, with the Mb providing the pattern (pater/Yang) for the Yin to fill. It is here that the groundwork for a concept of the interplay and dynamics of these two subtle bodies is set up. Without the Mb setting "boundaries" for the Eb is is all over the place and things get messy and sloppy. Almost any conversation will demonstrate this principal because few conversations are intellectual in nature. Most information people carry around with them was not arrived at by working anything out. People are walking around with heads full of programming. Programming aimed at the Eb. Most opinions are ideas others presented and then we agreed with them and then call them ours. When discussions occur where differences of "opinion" arise things get stupid quickly because the Mb was usually not around when the "opinion" was programmed in. The reasonings used in our debates are usually talking points that were presented by the programmer, (TV talking head, magazine/internet article writer) and have no depth to them, only emotional juice. No work was put into the acquisition of these opinions, by us, other than whatever was required to operate the medium used. This is a generality of how most of the population operates. Everyone has an opinion that isn't really theirs because no mental effort was exerted. In other words, no opinion was "formed". No intellectual construct occurred for the Eb to fill. The Eb was hijacked by a programmer.

TV, shuts down the Mb. It is hard to think and listen at the same time because thinking requires one to pay attention, "listen" to ones own thoughts. TV plays the part of the Mb and the Eb does what it does. It fills these constructs with feelings. We end up with our feeling in the constructs of others. Constructs, more often than not, composed of nonsense, lies and agendas.

As mentioned earlier, mental constructs are inherently lifeless until filled with "feeling". So you see how important it is for "OUR" own, autonomous and sovereign intellects to construct/form the ideas that our feelings will inhabit. When opinions are formed in this fashion, real discussion and debate can occur. To get into a heated discussion with other peoples opinions is not productive. It is a fake conversation where only Eb's get a workout and plenty of loosh gets produced, which is a huge part of the programming. The other part is Matrix enforcing of the prison bars and guards. Both the bars and guards are us and our programmed selves acting on and from the programming.

We now see that the crux of proper Eb management is tied into proper Mb engagement. Start having sovereign ideas and watch a sovereign life appear. Emotions are the magnetism of creation. If you want to have a life that is truly yours, you will have to constuct one with a functioning Mb creating its own ideas and then having the Eb fill it with feeling that applies to that idea. If it feels bad, it might be. One must look at the construct as one would do building anything. Poor structure leads to problems and the Eb will often inform one of this.

As Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living."

[PurpleLama]

At eighteen years I discovered Robert A. Wilson, and his concept of circuits, the higher being the circuit of the programmer. Such information inspired the disentanglement of my own circuitry, and the re-assembly thereof, in a more logical seeming arrangement. Every few years it's been taken apart and put back together, and I cannot overstate the value, the richness, I've experienced, knowing and changing my own "mind". I've come to see similar concepts to those R. Wilson used within various other spiritual/magical teaching, although my own perspective seems to have become more abstract in dealing with the mental constructs, the idea of circuits as he presented holds a special place in my heart. For anyone interested, it's is in the book Prometheus Rising, although I'd put it together from his various other writings before I encountered that book. I have found that the perspective he promoted leads to a certain detachment from the process that's ever helpful during such endeavors.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...41248874,d.eWU

[Ultima Thule]

How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

[9eagle9]

One sees it all the time although one might not be aware of what one is observing.

People until they clear out the emotional body conduct their behaviors under a set pattern of predictable behavior mostly exhibited by creating situations that really aren't in existence, reactionary states, and basically doing the same thing over and over again expecting that something will change.

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

[modwiz]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

I see them accumulating IN the emotional body. I do like the concept of the pain body that Eckhart Tolle uses, since the traumas will accumulate around the black hole of our own self condemnation and lack of self acceptance. This hole, this unfilled part of ourselves will try and stick anything in there to plug it up/fill it in. The saying misery loves company applies to the plethora of wounds and hurts we accumulate. There is a common lower vibration/disharmonic and all things seek their level or place.

This gets us back to the need for the Mental body (Mb) to work in concert with the Eb. I will use the character of Spock, from the Star Trek series to demonstrate this point. Doctor McCoy says something emotional. It is his role to play. Spock sees the logical/mental side of things without the emotional context. McCoy is appalled and goes on to call Spock an unfeeling, green-blooded machine whose mother was a hamster and whose father stank of elderberries. Spock raises one eyebrow and calmly reminds the Dr. that his mother was a human and his father detested elderberries and that it would be illogical to state that he stank of them. Furthermore his green blood was just a natural component of his Vulcan physiology and had little to do with his removing emotional components from his calculations. He goes on to remind McCoy, that the Vulcans are a deeply passionate people who found that they needed to control their emotions to evolve beyond barbarism. What he would not do is have his feelings hurt by the Doctors words. There would be no residual trauma to store in a pain body.

It is worth noting two distinct types of wounds carried in the pain body. The pain we feel from what other have said/done to us and the pain we feel from what we have said/done to others. For someone like myself, the latter is more challenging. I believe the latter is what challenges most people, and is often at the core of their own self worth issues. This sets up a looping effect where the pain from others is seen as justified for the pain we caused others. This churning field of pain will cause illness and disease. It is most likely the seed of all chronic illness and disease. Forgiveness is one of the most powerful medicines for these illnesses of the spirit. Like any remedy, use and apply wisely. Like most natural remedies, there are only a few cautions, but there are some. Forgiving oneself clears the way to forgive others. It will allow one to feel deserving to be free of inner torments. The pains of holding on to grudges will also become apparent.

[meeradas]

_Intermission_

Happy Birthday, man.

[modwiz]

Posted by meeradas (here)
_Intermission_

Happy Birthday, man.

Thanks. For some reason I don't rate front page recognition. I think my pain body needs to prepare itself for incoming....LOL. Simonm and Amystic3434 are featured. Viral Spiral is another missing from the front page. We have already exchanged pleasantries.

[Beren]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
One sees it all the time although one might not be aware of what one is observing.

People until they clear out the emotional body conduct their behaviors under a set pattern of predictable behavior mostly exhibited by creating situations that really aren't in existence, reactionary states, and basically doing the same thing over and over again expecting that something will change.

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
How do you see emotional baggage or traumas accumulating in relation to emotional body?

UT

"Think before you flame " was an excellent advice for many, if not all.