The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[TraineeHuman]

The mind is very subtle, and the consciousness is even subtler. The fact is, you can’t actually be empty of absolutely everything. If you were that, then you wouldn’t exist. But if you go into a state that you consider is totally empty, or largely empty, then what is really happening?

Surely you are then
(a) opening yourself up to whatever was there all along somewhere in the background but you never really paid attention to it because you were too busy with everything you supposed was there, and
(b) you are temporarily dropping everything you believed was in your universe. But your universe is really the same as you (because all your consciousness of anything in the universe is inside your personal consciousness, so all you can ever know about the universe is a part of you); so, you are temporarily dropping everything you up till this point believed was you.

[Finefeather]

Posted by teradactyl (here)
i suppose an inner silence is a prelude to the inner knowing. inner knowing allows a person to truly know what insights/experiences are HS or not. what i find that happens to me now, is inner reminders. my HS silences my ego. it reminds my ego (in a way similar to my daughter to her stuffed toys) thats "its OK, its OK, im here." so that there is a release of the ego, and a training of the ego. the HS then now adjusts my POV to peace/balance. i typically am reminded that worries hold no place here, perpetuating negative emotions holds no place here...etc.

Hi teradactyl
I remember quite well the many times I experienced this little voice...at first I used to wonder if this was 'God' speaking to me because it always used to be right and seemed to know the answers to my problems. But in those days my ego used to rule and out came the anger...the jealousy...the need to be right...the need to have and take what I want...and of course this was what we were been taught. Men can't be sissies and boys must be boys...fight for your rights...you cannot be seen as a loser.

It took me many years to start to listen to this voice and I remember having to apologize and say I was sorry to someone one day and I remember that I felt good about it afterwards. A mighty blow for the ego...and a sure smile for the HS.

Today this voice is my voice...and the ego gets to do the listening...you begin to know the difference so well that you can preempt the situation and avoid the embarrassment which might have come in those old days when you were a slave to this 'mighty' ego. In time you will find the ego starts to fade into the background and I have come to the conclusion that it is not required in my life. Some people say that we need the ego to take care of some things in the physical...well I have not found that so...there is not one thing which the ego can do that the HS cannot do better. What always goes through my mind is that if the HS can act and have such a positive attitude in our life on the physical plane...just how beautiful it must be in it's own realm...such a joy to strive for.
Take care and love to you.
Ray

[Finefeather]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
The mind is very subtle, and the consciousness is even subtler. The fact is, you can’t actually be empty of absolutely everything. If you were that, then you wouldn’t exist. But if you go into a state that you consider is totally empty, or largely empty, then what is really happening?

Surely you are then
(a) opening yourself up to whatever was there all along somewhere in the background but you never really paid attention to it because you were too busy with everything you supposed was there, and
(b) you are temporarily dropping everything you believed was in your universe. But your universe is really the same as you (because all your consciousness of anything in the universe is inside your personal consciousness, so all you can ever know about the universe is a part of you); so, you are temporarily dropping everything you up till this point believed was you.

I have to agree with this. I think we use some words when we actually mean something else...or may just not have the full picture yet of the meaning in the context within which it is being used.
It is also clear to me that there are many things in higher realms or esoteric situations that are difficult to clearly define with everyday language.

Take the word Stillness...it is nothing more than a relative term because there will always be millions of little atoms within us flying around with great speed...the same goes for non-action.

In esoteric terms however non-action can be related to the unmanifest as Chester was alluding to in an earlier post...but in our ordinary life stillness and non-action are often used, in the spiritual context, to mean emptiness or a state of been ready to receive some input...from a higher source most likely...although there can obviously be other reasons as well. But I think this all implies to, some degree, a state of anticipation, and this is where it goes wrong for many in meditation...for example.

So stillness or non-action or emptiness needs to be more clearly defined in the context within which we are using it in this discussion...but in general I have no real problem with their use...it is the way we actually feel about them inside, as an individual, which counts.

Another interesting word is balance. If you think of a scale and each side has the same weight it is said to be balanced...and in this case it also implies stillness and non-action. We know, and again Chester and I were chatting about this, that a wheel can also be in balance and still be rotating at thousands of rpm...and there certainly is no stillness or non-action going on here...from a everyday point of view. But if we use balance in our lives we come face to face with conflict and peace. Conflict causes out of balance and peace causes balance...and when there is peace then there is stillness and non-action. Wow does'nt life go round and round

Love to all
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

My experience is that the stillness is very active, everywhere, all the time. It's in everything. Paradoxically, it's more full, more alive than anything else. It's a very full emptiness. It's like a thousand suns.

It's paradoxical. You can't describe it without using at least two completely contradictory words at once. That's why only the consciousness can understand it, but the mind can't.

I don't believe you'll experience it the way I do by expecting it to be like I experience it. You have to start from how you experience it. You have to get through your initial resistance to bearing with blankness, with inner emptiness, first. Then it will eventually change, but you need to persist with it.

[Finefeather]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
My experience is that the stillness is very active, everywhere, all the time. It's in everything. Paradoxically, it's more full, more alive than anything else. It's a very full emptiness. It's like a thousand suns.

It's paradoxical. You can't describe it without using at least two completely contradictory words at once. That's why only the consciousness can understand it, but the mind can't.

I don't believe you'll experience it the way I do by expecting it to be like I experience it. You have to start from how you experience it. You have to get through your initial resistance to bearing with blankness, with inner emptiness, first. Then it will eventually change, but you need to persist with it.

Yes! now that's a great way to see it...I know this state well! The paradox you are referring to can actually be caught or evidenced in the 'slow motion view
I experience this 'stillness' in one fraction of a second just before the stillness is engulfed or taken over by the inner world of my consciousness. You cannot reach this state without stillness...as we usually think of it...as a foreplay...if I may use such a term...yet it becomes a new inner world of 'non-stillness'.

I also experience this in another way quite often. I am still...with my eyes closed...then before me in my minds eye, appears a vast plane with magnificent colors and patterns...it is in full view...I cannot see any break in this plane...then there appears a tiny eye, or opening, in front of me...usually in shimmering dark blue...it starts to get larger and I start to move into it. The moment I can no longer see the plane and have moved into the eye, I enter the inner realm of my consciousness and the higher realms. Any sudden external jolt or interference with my physical body...like the cat jumping on my lap...causes the stillness to be broken and the return to my mind. I usually kick the cat at this stage
Take care
Ray

[Freed Fox]

TH, that reminds me of the hidden truth of matter, that there is (again, paradoxically) no matter as such. An atom is mostly empty space. But it isn't really empty, is it? It's a fascinating thing when you begin to come to grips with it, and in an odd way I find it empowering. That for all intents and purposes, there is no such thing as 'nothingness', even in the midst of supposed 'emptiness'. They say it is all energy, and I tend to agree with those who say it is the energy of the Source, which is fundamentally infinite love.

Something else occurred to me after waking from a dream last night. It may be a tad off-topic, so please forgive me if that is the case...

As has been mentioned, lucid dreams are often initiated when we realize from within a dream that we are in fact dreaming. I hadn't understood one of the major obstacles in coming to that realization until today, and that is; dreams seem to have a sort of implicit precedent, like an un-experienced history which reinforces what we experience in them.

To use the dream I had as an example, I had apparently had some sort of injury or surgery because my legs were all bandaged up. This should have been a major red flag, because this has never happened to me during this lifetime, at any point. I have no memory of experiencing such circumstances. Yet, in my dream, I recall tending to these bandages without a second thought. I have no idea what had happened, nor did I think to question it. Before, I have always attributed this lack of mindfulness to the altered state of consciousness that dreams entail, but this one made me question that just a bit. It reminded me of the idea that we experience different lifetimes in tandem, and that perhaps our dreams are indeed windows into these other realities.

Anyway, sorry... I digress. Just wanted to share that little thought here.

[Chester]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Justoneman, that sounds to me like an eloquent description of Source, but not of the HS -- though no doubt Source is pretty close to being the same thing as "the Big HS" that unites all HSs together and is in them all in a veiled form.

I guess your insight kind of hints at the point that ultimately the self and the HS are illusions, yet we are quite real, even though the personality that many people believe is who they are is only a passing illusion.

You nailed it - we can get caught up in labels and then wouldn't that be the "lower self" dominating? Or we can open to what is being said behind and through the words - Yes, some call it Source, some call it God, some call it The One... I used a term I never heard hoping folks might get what i was pointing to - THE HS as opposed to an individual spirit's HS... doing that in hopes some readers might see the single difference being a.) One and b.) "many."

I connect the dots all the way up as well as all the way back down. This has forced me to accept I am 100% responsible (at some level of my being) for each and every single thing that happens in my life.

This then has resulted in my having to accept full responsibility for every single thing I think, everything I speak and write and everything I do.

I like this point of view that I have recently adopted. I hope it sticks.

[Chester]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
The mind is very subtle, and the consciousness is even subtler. The fact is, you can’t actually be empty of absolutely everything. If you were that, then you wouldn’t exist. But if you go into a state that you consider is totally empty, or largely empty, then what is really happening?

Surely you are then
(a) opening yourself up to whatever was there all along somewhere in the background but you never really paid attention to it because you were too busy with everything you supposed was there, and
(b) you are temporarily dropping everything you believed was in your universe. But your universe is really the same as you (because all your consciousness of anything in the universe is inside your personal consciousness, so all you can ever know about the universe is a part of you); so, you are temporarily dropping everything you up till this point believed was you.

You have opened to the "unmanifest" is all... that does not mean you disappear into "it." But once experienced, as a betting man, I would bet the odds are high you will never be the same.

This has been true for me.

What also I discovered was that "that place" which cannot actually be described was (and is) real reality for me as it is constant. The reason anyone applies the words "stillness" and/or "emptiness" is only to point to that which can't be described but can be "known" as in what is known as "gnosis."

The peace one experiences having achieved (and anchored) gnosis cannot be described.

One comes away know (intimately) unconditional love which results in many other things, unconditional tolerance of others regardless how lost they appear to be.

Yes, TH - it is paradoxical. I found accepting that (it initially felt like a surrender... that there is a mystery here that can never be solved) but then I discovered the freedom in that acceptance and that is when "knew I knew what I could not know and could never find words to say."

... all mind blowingly wonderful.

I am Souce, I am my own HS, I am my lower self, I sometimes am the lowest self that I might possibly be capable of being and its all ok and I will never explain how this happens to be until the day I decide to through this gift in the trash. A day I doubt will ever come.

[Chester]

The knowledge of ultimate balance is the peace one has in experiencing form... that to The One, it is all good... all the ups and downs all add up to just plain ole simple good.

There's only one certainty about the realms of form, they are constantly changing and so within form, certainty does not exist.

There's a peace in accepting that (at my level of form... where my individual HS begins).

[TraineeHuman]

Yes, stillness is the gate. Partly it's the gate to an intelligent, living Stillness that does unite us with everything and that feels like the true Big life force animating everything and everyone -- and one feels great just experiencing it. Call that "the unmanifest" if you like. I agree it's as accurate a word as "(the big) Stillness".

Stillness is also the gate to lots of higher worlds as well. There's an old urban myth that nirvana means some kind of extinction, but that's nonsense. You can be enlightened or whatever and still enjoy entertainment -- though you might find much of it too superficial to hold your interest any more. Enlightenment doesn't mean you stop enjoying a good meal.

Chester, in my experience there's a huge difference between -- to use what as far as I know is the standard Buddhist terminology, though some versions (such as something I saw in Wikipedia) have been corrupted by the ignorant -- the formless worlds on the one hand, and the divine or universal worlds, or the worlds of Source, on the other. When you are in the HS you are at least in some formless world(s). The dividing line is that in the universal worlds there is no longer any distinction between subject and object. That's one particular variety of "oneness", Chester. It's not a matter of "everything is One" as I see it. Does it even make sense to talk about total, absolute oneness?

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by teradactyl (here)
i suppose an inner silence is a prelude to the inner knowing. inner knowing allows a person to truly know what insights/experiences are HS or not. what i find that happens to me now, is inner reminders. my HS silences my ego. it reminds my ego (in a way similar to my daughter to her stuffed toys) thats "its OK, its OK, im here." so that there is a release of the ego, and a training of the ego. the HS then now adjusts my POV to peace/balance. i typically am reminded that worries hold no place here, perpetuating negative emotions holds no place here...etc.

Great! Excellent description. The only thing to add would be, as Ray has mentioned, that eventually one learns more and more, over time, to usually ignore the ego's reactions and impulses, rather than needing to say something like: "It's beneath my dignity (or beneath what I deserve, or beneath my standards) to get involved in that stuff." Eventually the "inner parent" or "inner policeman" retires because s/he's no longer needed. But it's great that you seem to keep "getting reminded", and that you always pay attention when you are reminded.

[Finefeather]

Posted by justoneman (here)
You nailed it - we can get caught up in labels and then wouldn't that be the "lower self" dominating? Or we can open to what is being said behind and through the words - Yes, some call it Source, some call it God, some call it The One... I used a term I never heard hoping folks might get what i was pointing to - THE HS as opposed to an individual spirit's HS... doing that in hopes some readers might see the single difference being a.) One and b.) "many."

I connect the dots all the way up as well as all the way back down. This has forced me to accept I am 100% responsible (at some level of my being) for each and every single thing that happens in my life.

This then has resulted in my having to accept full responsibility for every single thing I think, everything I speak and write and everything I do.

I like this point of view that I have recently adopted. I hope it sticks.

After writing this post I realized it's length so my apologies for this lengthy post it just sort of bubbled out...so I just let it run itself out

Labels are to me not an exclusive lower self domain ...so getting caught up in them is not domination...although I understand what you are trying to get across...it is...not understanding the true meaning of the words we use which causes confusion when we use them in conversation. So IMO words do not dominate it is the idea we have formulated in our mind that dominates. The word 'God' is a classic. When I talk to Christians I know what they generally mean but when I talk to more advanced students of esoteric teaching I think of God in a different way. We get hung up on words because we understand them differently...and we use them with an intended meaning which the person/s we are conversing with has no idea about, or is for that moment not relating to.

What you have termed “lower self” is actually the consciousness of the Spiritual Being on the physical plane...and we need words to communicate with because we have not mastered telepathy yet. We get taught these words from birth by our parents etc...and as we march through life we formulate our own picture of our language. There comes a time in our lives where we become more in tune with our HS/Soul and this is when true intuition starts to appear in our consciousness. Intuition is a HS/Soul connection and is completely different to what some people call “gut feel” which is an astral psychic phenomena.
In the higher realms we do not use language we communicate with thought and mind. Things are just known as if you are a part of the other 'persons' mind...because you are...it is a bit like a sea of ideas which we can all tap into...individuality is expresses by building around oneself a light 'body' of the nature of which we best like to see ourselves and the individual 'achievements or qualities which we have gained from past individual experiences. In most cases we are not even aware of building this identity. I remember the first times I went OB and realized I could actually 'feel' the concerns and longings of others just by being with them...very powerful. In the lower dark realms there is often just darkness around the person and it is quite difficult to get through to the person. When I do rescue work, no body tells me what is required or where to go...I just know it as if I was briefed about it in a meeting...I know now that it is the HS/Soul of the person who has put out the call for help.

I smile often at the thought of some of us thinking they can connect dots all the way up and all the way down the ladder of Being...as if they somehow know exactly what these dots are they are connecting. I know of extremely highly advanced Beings...far from our little mundane level of awareness...who struggle to grasp the vastness and complexity of this thing we called life. At very best these dots are only up to and including the highest state of each persons physical mind awareness and cannot possibly be including states like The ONE...or God...or The creator...or the unmanifest...or THE HS...or the Soul.
Even if we have read about these lofty states, and think, intellectually, we are on top of the game in the understanding of these levels of consciousness and Being we are still miles away from actually grasping the concepts of the higher states of our individual Being....never mind that of consciousness beyond the levels of individual Monads.

This is the reason why OBE can be of great help to SOME...ONLY...because it is, in my opinion and experience, far from the be all and end all of practices to gain enlightenment.
We should never forget that enlightenment, as we see it, is a physical plane challenge...and the physical plane alone has not even come close to being mastered by the majority of humans. Planes like the etheric world which is a physical plane, 'closer' than the astral planes, is still unknown to the many who pretend to know the ins and outs of OBE. The many cities which are on our own planet which we are totally unaware of...yet we think we know a lot.
Together with lucid dreams and other interesting experiences we have...these are more than likely to be just our own individual interpretations and creations based on our own individual traumas and psychology and 3D mind state and attitudes...the classic illusion we read about. Obviously there are those who have deeper understanding and reasons for OB work and discovery and as we become more enlightened from a physical conscious mind point of view...our OBE's will start to become more meaningful and real.

Remember that enlightenment is experienced as an individual light phenomena...and cannot be compared fully with the average of the collective human enlightenment...if we don't allow the light into our conscious lives we cannot understand the full impact of the intellectual stuff we cram into our minds...this is the need to seek the unveiling of the HS or Soul...because the HS or Soul is the enlightenment...it is the light of the world...it's nature is unconditional love and it is the Solar Angel of our System...both individually and from a Solar System point of view.

Time for a reality check I think

Take care
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
that reminds me of the hidden truth of matter, that there is (again, paradoxically) no matter as such. An atom is mostly empty space. But it isn't really empty, is it? It's a fascinating thing when you begin to come to grips with it, and in an odd way I find it empowering. That for all intents and purposes, there is no such thing as 'nothingness', even in the midst of supposed 'emptiness'. They say it is all energy, and I tend to agree with those who say it is the energy of the Source, which is fundamentally infinite love.

In spite of Ray's last post, I trust I'll be forgiven for briefly getting metaphysical/philosophical/abstract for a moment regarding this. "Space", as we think of it, is simply whatever fills the gaps between various forms. Now consider what would happen in a world where there are no forms at all. Because space is simply the gaps between forms, there's no such thing as space in a world such as that either, not as we know it!

As we already know, I claim that whenever we are in HS we are in some world(s) or other where there are no forms, and therefore no space, not at all. This means the stillness we experience there must be nothing like a lack of physical movement -- which is all that stillness is in the physical world. Notice, though, that we still seem to have no problem at all understanding how the inner stillness feels.

[I dreamed that] I had apparently had some sort of injury or surgery because my legs were all bandaged up. This should have been a major red flag, because this has never happened to me during this lifetime, at any point. I have no memory of experiencing such circumstances. Yet, in my dream, I recall tending to these bandages without a second thought.

Our legs are what we use to advance forward with, in the physical world. Therefore the dream is some kind of warning that something is stopping you from advancing further. The dream would have contained some detail of what type of thing that was, but your description doesn't seem to mention what that was, so that's all I can say.

[soleil]

hi TH i have an offside dream that if i may ask you for your insight/help decoding them.

i regularly (maybe 1 per month or 1 per quarter) i have a dream where i have an extreme taffy like sticky substance stuck in my mouth and especially in my teeth. i pull and pull and pull it out, over and over again until i am free of the taffy stuck in my teeth/back of my mouth/molars. i probably always change scenes once the taffy/substance has been pulled out, and never remember the feeling of it being fully out. can you perhaps point my consciousness in the right direction on this dream reminder?

also, ive had a couple dreams (once every few months or so) of dealing with animals that are of dark malicious personality. i'll usually be 'in my house' and the attacking animal will sneak near by and they jump at me/attack me. but i always grab the fierce animal by the scruff of their neck, whether or not i get "scratched" or "bit" by doing this in the dream, and toss the animal out.

usually they are smallish animals, like a raccoon (but totally rabid), or angry/wild dog etc. but very vicious.

[Raymondo]

Hello, thank you for the outstanding thread wich i am very interested in.

Im not from the USA so please forgive me if you see some errors in my typing, i do my best.

This is my OBE story;

Some time ago i had read on the internet OBE's storys and meditation. So i thought to myself; i'am going to meditate hoping that i ''clean'' my spirit, not to have a OBE.

After i had read some meditations on the internet i went to my bedroom and start lying on my bed. I closed my eye's and started to control my breathing. After some minutes i opend my eyes again and i was standing outside of my bed!
I looked around and i saw myself lying in my bed, i was not scared but my consciousness was the same as always. I was pretty calm and the realm i was in was so relaxed it felt really good. In fact i also had no pain in my knee, not long ago i had a major knee operation, and each day is a struggle even today. So weard that i didnt felt any pain, i was really happy.
Then i walked to my window and looked outside, i saw birds flying in the blue sky, not clearly vision but i knew what they where. At some point my instinct telling me that i need to go back to my self and some force drove me back to my bed and i saw my self getting closer and closer.

Now comes to scarry part; I opend my eye's again, after 2 secs ore so i was starting to hyperventilate, my longs/hearth was beating so hard i felt i was going to ''die''. I begun to swet big time, i was asking for air i had never experienced before in my whole life. And after 5-10 secs hyperventilation i was pretty normal again. Then i realized what happend to me, it was not a dream but a OBE.

This is the first time i talked about this on a forum, im a bit scared of the reactions by other ppl where i live. Will i do this again? No, i dont wanna hyperventilate anymore like i had, it was 10x worse when you had a hard work-out by running in the park.

I know what i saw, i see things in life much different than before. Somehow i'm not so scared for death anymore than before. I know there is a realm/reality that we know so little about it. I call it the non-psysical realm. I also think that death is only a illusion, oure life on this planet is just a start, when oure psysical body dies we move on to the next fase.

Greeting Raymond.

[Finefeather]

Posted by Raymondo (here)
After i had read some meditations on the internet i went to my bedroom and start lying on my bed. I closed my eye's and started to control my breathing. After some minutes i opend my eyes again and i was standing outside of my bed!
I looked around and i saw myself lying in my bed, i was not scared but my consciousness was the same as always. I was pretty calm and the realm i was in was so relaxed it felt really good. In fact i also had no pain in my knee, not long ago i had a major knee operation, and each day is a struggle even today. So weard that i didnt felt any pain, i was really happy.
Then i walked to my window and looked outside, i saw birds flying in the blue sky, not clearly vision but i knew what they where. At some point my instinct telling me that i need to go back to my self and some force drove me back to my bed and i saw my self getting closer and closer.

Now comes to scarry part; I opend my eye's again, after 2 secs ore so i was starting to hyperventilate, my longs/hearth was beating so hard i felt i was going to ''die''. I begun to swet big time, i was asking for air i had never experienced before in my whole life. And after 5-10 secs hyperventilation i was pretty normal again. Then i realized what happend to me, it was not a dream but a OBE.

Hi Raymond...greeting dear friend...my writing is pretty bad also so join the club

It is always so exciting for me to hear these stories...and the biggest thing I notice with this spontaneous OB experience by many people is how easy the first time was when they have no idea what is going to happen and there is no fear.
I have met probably 100s of people who have had one or two experiences...then they started reading books with chapters in it of all the scary dangers involved...and suddenly they tense up and it takes them months to get over that fear factor.
My advice to you is read as little as possible and don't tell your mother...they always think we're going to die or end up in a mental ward

By the way the hyperventilation was just the shock and realization of what you had achieved...a bit like just landing a date with the most beautiful girl in the neighborhood...unbelievable!

Take care
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by teradactyl (here)
i regularly (maybe 1 per month or 1 per quarter) i have a dream where i have an extreme taffy like sticky substance stuck in my mouth and especially in my teeth. i pull and pull and pull it out, over and over again until i am free of the taffy stuck in my teeth/back of my mouth/molars. i probably always change scenes once the taffy/substance has been pulled out, and never remember the feeling of it being fully out. can you perhaps point my consciousness in the right direction on this dream reminder?

also, ive had a couple dreams (once every few months or so) of dealing with animals that are of dark malicious personality. i'll usually be 'in my house' and the attacking animal will sneak near by and they jump at me/attack me. but i always grab the fierce animal by the scruff of their neck, whether or not i get "scratched" or "bit" by doing this in the dream, and toss the animal out.

usually they are smallish animals, like a raccoon (but totally rabid), or angry/wild dog etc. but very vicious.

A dream is usually a message from the HS. It always presents us with some issue we’re not facing fully enough in our lives. That’s “fully enough” by the HS’s high standards, but those standards involve our getting free of the ego as quickly as can possibly be done.

I believe it’s fairly clear what both those dreams are about, teradactyl. They both seem to be about much the same issues, and kudos to you for intuitively mentioning them both at the same time.

Because the issues from our dreams are ones we’re unaware we’re not facing fully, that means that what we need to look at is always some part of our dark side. I remember when I began regular astral travel, I got into the habit of finding my silver (and violet) cord before I did anything else. It usually seemed to be below me, at least initially. It was very fortunate that I initially concentrated on that cord, because it’s all positive. I now suspect, in retrospect, that that may have been the best psychic protection, because I would start by focusing on that totally positive thing and then whatever else I experienced was wherever it seemed to lead me to – and was again positive because I was concentrating on and therefore manifesting the positive. But I would also catch fleeting glimpses of dark energy accompanying me. Eventually I worked out that somehow that must be a part of me. Fortunately I didn’t focus on it. Whew!

Now, what do your dreams mean? The ferocious little animals are parts of your dark side. Obviously the emotional issue is anger. I assume and hope you’re dealing with your anger by energy work and/or psychotherapy and/or self-reflection and/or physical exercise. But obviously, the dreams are saying it’s not enough. I appreciate that working in real sales as you do, your anger “buttons” keep getting pressed. That’s ultimately a very good thing indeed, as long as you manage to deal with all that anger properly. In your dream you are throwing the ferocious animals out. That means you’re repressing some of your anger. Repression doesn’t work. It only creates more ego. You’re kind of just pushing those particular creatures deeper into the shadows, from where they can come out fighting even harder.

The second dream is about having to keep your lips zipped (or your teeth welded together), in your work. I don’t know exactly what this dream’s message is, other than that you don’t fully realize how frustrated you feel at this. Unfortunately, in work such as sales silence is golden, as you know, when it comes to telling some negative customers what you observe or feel from them. All your dream is saying is that you need to pay more attention to this and work on it.

If you don’t know or have access to proper and effective psychotherapy (I don’t mean psychoanalysis, nor any form of behavior modification), I can suggest one form of energy work to do twice a week or so. Get a big pillow – preferably not the one you sleep on. Sitting on your haunches, swing your arms and bash that pillow, with one arm after the other. If possible, try not to consciously think of any particular customer, because that starts to become a type of black magic. Do this for something like twenty minutes.

[shipo]

I've been following this thread with great interest and hope you guys don't mind me coming in and asking some probably silly questions. I had my first OBE on the 11/4/13 using techniques from Michael Raduga's The Phase a Practical guidebook, I was quite surprised to experience and obtain The phase the very first night I read the guide and 10 days later I was able to separate. I was thinking this is too easy and was expecting I'd be able to OOB regularly, go to my HS/Source and further my spiritual growth in no time but here I am facing a brick wall. I'm stuck fast and not sure where I've gone wrong, I haven't deviated with my techniques or determination but reaching even the vibrational state has eluded me leaving me quite frustrated. What should I do? Give it a break for a while? Try some Calea perhaps to induce lucid dreams as I'm not recalling dreaming at all? My first and last OBE was right after a very lucid dream,I awoke and stayed still with eyes closed and used my techniques but at the moment nothing seems to work.
Cheers Paul

[Finefeather]

Hi Paul
I think you might be trying too hard. There is this little hurdle we seem to need to have to overcome...and that is to stop thinking in terms of body. We walk and talk and do everything with our bodies and have just got into the habit of using our bodies for everything. Now along comes a new thing we can do and we instinctively involve our bodies as well. One of the things I did which prevented easy OB was to try to climb out of my body as if I was getting out of bed or sitting up...I realized that unconsciously I was involving my body by sending thoughts to activate my muscles to move. This is like been at the point just before you put your first foot forward when you walk. You need to release yourself from your body. The last many years now I have been using another technique were I exit through my head. I do not involve the body at all. I very seldom, these days, experience the vibration which is so common.

OB is of course the most natural state that we know of. We have been more out of a body than in one in our long existence. I am quite convinced...and have seen this consistently in many people I have known...that not all of us will experience OB in the classic way we read about...and this is to do with the intention we have for the current life we are living. It is also got to do with the ego/astral/mental makeup of the Being in incarnation...in simple terms, some of us are just not going to experience classic OB because we need to avoid the 'distraction' from our intended physical life objective. So my advice always to people who are struggling is just to let it be...continue your life and try to assess the reason for your incarnation...it might not include OB experience because there is nothing for you to learn...in this life...by it's practice. If it's going to happen again and if you need to this will happen again...sometimes the timing is just not right yet.
Take care
Ray

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
In the lower dark realms there is often just darkness around the person and it is quite difficult to get through to the person. When I do rescue work, no body tells me what is required or where to go...I just know it as if I was briefed about it in a meeting...I know now that it is the HS/Soul of the person who has put out the call for help.

Presumably you know those details as if you had been briefed in a meeting because they come direct to your HS. I've done one such rescue on someone, and also one on myself (believe it or not). I've also had dreams which suggested I've possibly done it on a few other occasions during sleep, strangely enough. But this is certainly a most wonderful service to perform. An individual whose whole world has been shut in by blackness will usually believe at that point that they are beyond help, rather like being sucked inside some Black Hole. It's truly praiseworthy that you've dedicated yourself to rescuing individuals from such darkness for so many years, Ray.

For the benefit of anyone who hasn't read the early posts in this thread, I strongly favor OB travel without any astral or etheric "body" at all, if possible. And I would prefer it if people could "graduate" from astral or etheric travel to bodiless travel as quickly as possible. Aftar all, as far as I know OBE without having any "body" is precisely the same thing as being consciously in your HS at the time!

Moreover, I prefer to take a position very similar to that of awareness meditation traditions such as Zen Buddhism and (the best of) Advaita Vedanta. This involves the complete favoring of awareness over concentration wherever possible. It also involves not dwelling in any one dimension or level, but continually declining to explore or be involved in whatever realm one has reached at that moment. This kind of continual declining or detaching or emptying, with pure awareness, keeps propelling the consciousness to a higher and higher level. Very gradually at first, for most people.

I've spent many posts trying to explain all this already, and it was what most of my early posts were ultimately intended to be about. And I'm still keeping to that position just as much now.