Enlightenment and Male Vanity

[Marin]

I just read this passage last night and thought I'd share. This material comes from Mercedes Kirkel's book entitled, Mary Magdalene Beckons, Join the river of Love. Meredes channels Mary Magdalene. In one of the sessions Mary Magdalene states:

"Now the time has changed as we are entering into a new age, the age of Aquarius. It has been said by many that this is the age of equality between the Masculine and the Feminine, and this is true. And for this shift to occur, there is a particular kind of passage required at this time. It is though you are giving birth to a new age. As has always been the case with birth, this is uniquely the domain of the Feminine. It is the feminine that must come into the fore and take the lead for this birth into the age of equality to occur."
......

"For women it is a call to assume your power, the Feminine powers. The Feminine is the power of love and strength. The Feminine is the compliment to the Masculine. Both have their strengths and both are required for wholeness. The feminine brings the life energy, love, aliveness, wisdom, faith, receptivity to the Divine, feeling and inclusiveness. The Masculine brings insight, understanding, awareness, direction, tracking or maintaining awareness, attaining goals and carrying out the divine plan.

Each person contains all of these qualities within them, as we all contain the Masculine and Feminine within. And most people also resonate more fully with one or more of these qualities, the Masculine or the Feminine. And so one option is to manifest this in life through sacred relationships with a partner.....A sacred partnership is a kind of alchemy. .....This does not mean that everyone needs to find a partner. Everyone can find a Sacred Relationship within themselves."

[Mark]

I think a lot of it has to do with perception. The attitudes that develop as we live our lives, bounded by gender roles in family and society and by the parameters of our natal charts.

As a case in point, my High School Basketball coach hated my guts.

I was pretty good for a rail-thin 6'3 Forward in a small league in Washington State. MVP senior year, All Conference, our team took 2nd in League. I was the go-to guy when the game went down to the wire. But, I didn't have the killer instinct. We could lose on the road, I'd cry bitterly in the locker room with my teammates (one of the few private spaces that Alpha males can show real emotion and it's ok; i'm probably breaking an unwritten code by mentioning it here, even decades later) and then release it, laughing and joking and playing loud music on the bus half an hour later, helping to elevate the mood of the team, but pissing off the coach to no end; who'd've rather seen us sitting sullen, angry and determined never to lose again, all the way home.

I understand that now. I also understand who I am now. Bounded by gender roles, yet astrologically determined by the majority of my natal chart signs being in the feminine aspect. I was trained diligently through childhood to be a superior athlete, but was limited in my effectiveness by my lack of innate competitiveness. And, of course, it has shown up in all other aspects of my life. The inner journeying that typifies the feminine signs has been the path that I have followed, rather than the external projection of the male signs. I do what I have to do only when I have to do it and only as much as is necessary. Never to excess, to the extent where reaching some pinnacle of material success has ever been an overt goal. Also, I relate very well to and have been very successful with women, which has been another count against me in the Male Court of Patriarchial Opinion.

"Isn't that guy gay? What do they see in him??? He must be in the closet."

This is my past, processed, owned and distant. But how does this part of my life story relate to the OP of the thread?

It is very difficult for Alpha males to relate to other males who are not so hormonally or natally driven. This point has been made previously in this thread. Even though I have been very successful in male-dominated sports, competitive in academic and social venues to the extent necessary to achieve respect and my aims, I am looked upon as strangely different. Even though I was a successful athlete in Basketball and Track & Field, I was still looked upon as strangely different. Well, of course, now I know that was because I was strange compared to them. So that remains the case for others with life-paths similar to mine, who have been considered strangely different by the people in their lives, and this remains so even among the males that have sought that higher understanding and have had experiences that have revealed to them some aspects of the deeper, underlying reality.

The personality complex and the natal programming are difficult to transcend. The former, just a wee bit easier as it is micro-determined by family and society, while the latter is macro-determined by the planets and the stars. It is one of the last things to go, on the journey of spiritual evolution. From my understanding, transcending the zodiac, being able to manifest any aspect of any sign in the Now, living fluidly and not being representative of any one sign or combination thereof, instead, encompassing them all within the personal expression as needed and required by the moment, is one of the goals and symptomatic of truly being one of those who reaches that stage of being that some dare call enlightenment.

It's almost a dirty word here. To say it, instantly invites derision and dismissal and rolling eyes behind dark, anonymous screens and words typed into the void. Or, more likely, silent animus directed at the one so identified. Either way, more indicative of the state of mind and spirit of the individual making the judgement than that of the person they're considering. To claim it? There, the competition continues. Despite the fact that it is real and beyond petty argumentation, despite the reality that this is indeed what happens whenever the topic is broached. The truth of the matter is that there are some here, fewer now than previously, who are well upon that pathless path. Sharing that reality with others in venues where it is not possible to hear the words, to see the face and expressions, to be able to read the body language, to be able to feel the melding of auras as vibrations interact and resonance is achieved, or not, producing information on multiple levels of perceptual reality both material and ethereal.

Now that's real.

Things might be a bit different, then, for men who can find common cause through biophysical resonance, rather than merely words on a screen. Real interactions, real brotherhood, between men who recognize themselves in each other and the humanity that binds them. Rather than just someone on the other side.

[onawah]

Apologies for not investigating further into how the Knighthood thing works.
Bad example, but the idea about arbitrariness was sound, I think.
(But also, admittedly, a bit off-topic! )

[ulli]

Posted by onawah (here)
Apologies for not investigating further into how the Knighthood thing works.
Bad example, but the idea about arbitrariness was sound, I think.
(But also, admittedly, a bit off-topic! )

No need to apologize...I had meant myself when I said back to topic, not you.
The idea of arbitrariness fits right in, as does everything fit, if we look at the universe from a wholeness perspective.

Since I'm a person who prefers focus over scattered, and creativity over destructiveness,
I find that my shadow self is in both cases the opposite,
but my wholeness perspective demands that I permit the occasional deviation into areas that appear to be off-topic.

This is very hard to explain, and in the past I have confused people,
even though I have it very clear in my head, like a formula.

The initial thought when creating the title of this thread came from
hearing about a study done with a group of young girls and another group of boys, same age as the girls.

Half a dozen of each were brought together in a room, no one had met the others before, and were filmed over thirty minutes.
The girls all came together, formed a circle and came to a consensus in a very short time.
The boys on the other hand created a pecking order, using insults, boasting even shoving, and in the same period had established an alpha male, his sidekick, and the others in gradually declining lower positions.

So I had noticed how several of the males here seemed to be playing this typical hierarchy establishing game and expressed a wish to see more mutual respect, more agreeing, even more friendship bonds.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by ulli (here)
The initial thought when creating the title of this thread came from
hearing about a study done with a group of young girls and another group of boys, same age as the girls.

Half a dozen of each were brought together in a room, no one had met the others before, and were filmed over thirty minutes.
The girls all came together, formed a circle and came to a consensus in a very short time.
The boys on the other hand created a pecking order, using insults, boasting even shoving, and in the same period had established an alpha male, his sidekick, and the others in gradually declining lower positions.

So I had noticed how several of the males here seemed to be playing this typical hierarchy establishing game and expressed a wish to see more mutual respect, more agreeing, even more friendship bonds.

Thanks, Ulli. This is helpful information for the clarity of the thread title.

[ulli]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
I think a lot of it has to do with perception. The attitudes that develop as we live our lives, bounded by gender roles in family and society and by the parameters of our natal charts.

As a case in point, my High School Basketball coach hated my guts.

I was pretty good for a rail-thin 6'3 Forward in a small league in Washington State. MVP senior year, All Conference, our team took 2nd in League. I was the go-to guy when the game went down to the wire. But, I didn't have the killer instinct. We could lose on the road, I'd cry bitterly in the locker room with my teammates (one of the few private spaces that Alpha males can show real emotion and it's ok; i'm probably breaking an unwritten code by mentioning it here, even decades later) and then release it, laughing and joking and playing loud music on the bus half an hour later, helping to elevate the mood of the team, but pissing off the coach to no end; who'd've rather seen us sitting sullen, angry and determined never to lose again, all the way home.

I understand that now. I also understand who I am now. Bounded by gender roles, yet astrologically determined by the majority of my natal chart signs being in the feminine aspect. I was trained diligently through childhood to be a superior athlete, but was limited in my effectiveness by my lack of innate competitiveness. And, of course, it has shown up in all other aspects of my life. The inner journeying that typifies the feminine signs has been the path that I have followed, rather than the external projection of the male signs. I do what I have to do only when I have to do it and only as much as is necessary. Never to excess, to the extent where reaching some pinnacle of material success has ever been an overt goal. Also, I relate very well to and have been very successful with women, which has been another count against me in the Male Court of Patriarchial Opinion.

"Isn't that guy gay? What do they see in him??? He must be in the closet."

This is my past, processed, owned and distant. But how does this part of my life story relate to the OP of the thread?

It is very difficult for Alpha males to relate to other males who are not so hormonally or natally driven. This point has been made previously in this thread. Even though I have been very successful in male-dominated sports, competitive in academic and social venues to the extent necessary to achieve respect and my aims, I am looked upon as strangely different. Even though I was a successful athlete in Basketball and Track & Field, I was still looked upon as strangely different. Well, of course, now I know that was because I was strange compared to them. So that remains the case for others with life-paths similar to mine, who have been considered strangely different by the people in their lives, and this remains so even among the males that have sought that higher understanding and have had experiences that have revealed to them some aspects of the deeper, underlying reality.

The personality complex and the natal programming are difficult to transcend. The former, just a wee bit easier as it is micro-determined by family and society, while the latter is macro-determined by the planets and the stars. It is one of the last things to go, on the journey of spiritual evolution. From my understanding, transcending the zodiac, being able to manifest any aspect of any sign in the Now, living fluidly and not being representative of any one sign or combination thereof, instead, encompassing them all within the personal expression as needed and required by the moment, is one of the goals and symptomatic of truly being one of those who reaches that stage of being that some dare call enlightenment.

It's almost a dirty word here. To say it, instantly invites derision and dismissal and rolling eyes behind dark, anonymous screens and words typed into the void. Or, more likely, silent animus directed at the one so identified. Either way, more indicative of the state of mind and spirit of the individual making the judgement than that of the person they're considering. To claim it? There, the competition continues. Despite the fact that it is real and beyond petty argumentation, despite the reality that this is indeed what happens whenever the topic is broached. The truth of the matter is that there are some here, fewer now than previously, who are well upon that pathless path. Sharing that reality with others in venues where it is not possible to hear the words, to see the face and expressions, to be able to read the body language, to be able to feel the melding of auras as vibrations interact and resonance is achieved, or not, producing information on multiple levels of perceptual reality both material and ethereal.

Now that's real.

Things might be a bit different, then, for men who can find common cause through biophysical resonance, rather than merely words on a screen. Real interactions, real brotherhood, between men who recognize themselves in each other and the humanity that binds them. Rather than just someone on the other side.

Great sharing there, Rahkyt, a post loaded with truth and info about how identities are carved.
It cannot be stressed enough how much the study of one's astrological chart can help with enlightenment,
and explain the different behaviors in ourselves as well as others. It kept me in balance when I was giving up over thirty years ago, thinking everyone was nuts.
Astrology has helped me become much more compassionate, not only with other people but also myself. I used to be too hard on myself, to the point of adding unnecessarily to my already high anxiety levels.
(Anxiety is a Capricorn trait)
Anyway, interesting about those locker room tears. And I'm glad that you lack the killer instinct.

[Flash]

Thanks Rakhyt to have the guts to say it clearly

It's almost a dirty word here. To say it, instantly invites derision and dismissal and rolling eyes behind dark, anonymous screens and words typed into the void. Or, more likely, silent animus directed at the one so identified. Either way, more indicative of the state of mind and spirit of the individual making the judgement than that of the person they're considering. To claim it? There, the competition continues. Despite the fact that it is real and beyond petty argumentation, despite the reality that this is indeed what happens whenever the topic is broached. The truth of the matter is that there are some here, fewer now than previously, who are well upon that pathless path. Sharing that reality with others in venues where it is not possible to hear the words, to see the face and expressions, to be able to read the body language, to be able to feel the melding of auras as vibrations interact and resonance is achieved, or not, producing information on multiple levels of perceptual reality both material and ethereal.

It is as if because everything has to pass through analysis for conspiracy (head trip) (in a conspiracy forum ), anything not analysable through these standards is untrue or unworthy.

Also, although some people maybe have a kind of "religious" aura, they are however sometimes far ahead in the path of self discovery and are, in my opinion, worth listening to. Yet, we toss them aside. For me, the deep mystical path of true Scientology or Buddhist mysticism or Christian mysticism for example are examples of difficult but worthwhile paths on the way to enlightenment. (all, by the way, are on the side tracks of their own religion, barely accepted by it). They are not enlightenment as such, they are posts on the path and as such, worth looking at. Yet, we often dismiss them as not having their place on this forum for fright of it becoming a non rational place. Thus the ostracizing of the word and posts geared towards enlightenment.

Rakhyt, as far as I am concerned, by your guts right here, you have just shown us what a real man, true to himself, can be. Thanks.

[Ernie Nemeth]

Raykyt, that was an amazing post, hedged as it was in your own manly prose. And I would like to add my support as well. I too am working on female aspects in this life. I personally believe I usually manifest in female bodies, choosing this life as one of the rare lifes to try out being male. I was going to say "It is very hard being male..." but realized the pun of it, so I won't say that.
I have no killer instinct at all, often throwing the game to my friends because they want it so much more than I do anyway. The violence in men is unfathomable to me as well. Threatening does not work well on me. It only makes me loose my control and see red. Threat I immediately escalate to violence, choosing direct confrontation over fear tactics. Threaten me and I plant my feet and prepare for battle. I do not cow, I do not give ground. In other words, I do not play the game of determining the pecking order between alpha males. Leave me alone, let me ignore you and go my way or we have a big problem, no matter your size. So no, I do not fit in in the usual male accepted mode of interaction.
I much more relate to women who I find are often far more rational and often even more intelligent (although that last is probably biased). My best intellectual conversations were always with females. In my experience, men are harder to convince and do not change their opinions in the face of new facts near as well as women do.
Can't think of anything else or a good way to end this piece so I'll leave it at that.

[gripreaper]

look, even this iconic photo from the return of the men after WW2 in now being emulated by cats!

[RunningDeer]

Posted by ulli (here)
The initial thought when creating the title of this thread came from hearing about a study done with a group of young girls and another group of boys, same age as the girls.

Half a dozen of each were brought together in a room, no one had met the others before, and were filmed over thirty minutes. The girls all came together, formed a circle and came to a consensus in a very short time.

The boys on the other hand created a pecking order, using insults, boasting even shoving, and in the same period had established an alpha male, his sidekick, and the others in gradually declining lower positions.

So I had noticed how several of the males here seemed to be playing this typical hierarchy establishing game and expressed a wish to see more mutual respect, more agreeing, even more friendship bonds.

I had noticed how several of the males here seemed to be playing this typical hierarchy establishing game and expressed a wish to see more mutual respect, more agreeing, even more friendship bonds.

People create the hierarchy. Part of the responsibility of intelligent beings is to present the material in a way that the readers understand.

My observation is that both male and female create the hierarchy. There are times when the reader asks the poster for clarification. They are succinct the second time. My question is why not to begin with? Another question is how many agree with the ‘garble d gook’, and hit the thank you button? It reinforces more of the same.

The posters that write with anger and patronizing attitude, I skip over. Though, I’ll revisit what they have to say for several reasons: I may have been overly sensitive, or they’ve had a bad day or they/we’ve grown in character. My loss if there’s valuable information. But I’d rather less factoids and come away with harmony while I visit on the forum. There are plenty of intelligent, creative, folks with heart intention to share.

Bit off topic but something that smacks at me: I struggle with myself when I judge others that judge others.

There’s no magic formula on how to be there in support of another that’s getting pummeled (subtle or not) vs. to allow that person to stand ground and speak for him/herself. As in life, I’ll continue to stand by the person’s right to share, but it’s been with some cost.

Unless one is a paid poke-poke, there’s something of merit in what we all share. For the opposers, why not point out where they are in agreement and then go into where they differ? Some may say it’s game playing. Tell it like it is. Like it or not, this is who I am. Booyah!!!

Yeah, I get it. Respectful communications work for me.

[DNA]

Posted by ulli (here)
I do know that when anyone reaches a spiritual plateau of integrity dark entities take hold of those who are not quite there yet, and unbeknownst to them attempt to tear down the enlightened one.

I Think this is especially true in day to day life for folks. It's the whole Matrix Movie and the agent smith philosophy. Here you will be having a casual conversation with somone, and somehow through mutual interest you both went "there". An hour or so later the person returns with a completely different closed minded view and seeks to ridicule you or attack you. It's as if the initial conversation went well, then their paradigm which was prepared to bend or even break issues out a distress signal and their social programming kicks in and the paradigm regains full strength and takes over the individual and prepells them to go and attack the person who was almost responsible for the paradigm changing.

I sometimes think this is a real entitiy. I think some of these social planted paradigms are in fact alive, dark entities as you say.

Posted by ulli (here)
Half a dozen of each were brought together in a room, no one had met the others before, and were filmed over thirty minutes.
The girls all came together, formed a circle and came to a consensus in a very short time.
The boys on the other hand created a pecking order, using insults, boasting even shoving, and in the same period had established an alpha male, his sidekick, and the others in gradually declining lower positions.

Look, I understand what you are trying to say in terms of the Avalon community. And I suppose there could be some truth to it.
But I don't see this as the norm in society at large.
You ever see the movie "mean girls"?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DkQ0szdOwyQ

Growing up I had a hard core group of friends,there were about six of us and we would do anything for one another. Yes we would rip on eachother from time to time but it was more a show of endearment than anything else. It was as if we were saying to one another, we are close, I can say rude things to you and you me because we are like family. There was a difference between rudeness within the group and something said in public in front of strangers. There were rules.



I was always perplexed at how I did not see this in women.
As a matter of fact, it was always my perception that women viewed eachother as competition in the age old game of "who is the hottest".
There is even a reality star who has turned this mantra into fame and fortune.
Where men will watch sports, women watch a lot of these reality shows where other woman have leveraged their hotness into celebrity.

I understand applying your theory to this forum. But in general, I think you have it backwards. In society at large, men tend to get along better with one another than women do.

This is what I have perceived anyway.

[Sebastion]

You might want to look more closely at their mind/wetico for some answers as opposed to dark entities.

Posted by DNA (here)

Posted by ulli (here)
I do know that when anyone reaches a spiritual plateau of integrity dark entities take hold of those who are not quite there yet, and unbeknownst to them attempt to tear down the enlightened one.

I Think this is especially true in day to day life for folks. It's the whole Matrix Movie and the agent smith philosophy. Here you will be having a casual conversation with somone, and somehow through mutual interest you both went "there". An hour or so later the person returns with a completely different closed minded view and seeks to ridicule you or attack you. It's as if the initial conversation went well, then their paradigm which was prepared to bend or even break issues out a distress signal and their social programming kicks in and the paradigm regains full strength and takes over the individual and prepells them to go and attack the person who was almost responsible for the paradigm changing.

I sometimes think this is a real entitiy. I think some of these social planted paradigms are in fact alive, dark entities as you say.

[DNA]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
You might want to look more closely at their mind/wetico for some answers as opposed to dark entities.

I think culture is possibly a dark entity. I think patriotism is a dark entity. I will use a tool video to explain what I'm saying as quickly as possible.
The lyrics of this song talk about watching the war on Iraq on TV. The lyrics state how confusing it is that guilt is not being felt while watching another culture experience such violence. Now vissually you see a giant tripod monster that seems to be connected to the televevision and in turn to the viewers. The viewer realizes this is wrong, he goes within and activates his own sense of autonomy, doing this deactivates the tripod monster and kills it's personal connection to the indiviudual.
When this takes place the individual goes through a metamorphisis, and expands spiritually.



When we look at the ancient sage of old who seekes enlightenment in a cave in the mountains, it wasn't that the cave has any inherently enlightening qualities, it is that society must be escaped for a while in order for it to be purged.

Anyway, it's just a thought, don't send your agent smith after me.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zb88usOBud0

[skippy]

Interesting thread, taking things to new levels.. Thanks Uli. Here a picture with lots of symbols. Alchemical wedding, coincidentia oppositorum, union of opposites.

[ulli]

Forgive me for not replying to each and every posts, as I am busy with family obligations today..
There is tons of other stuff to do. Barely finding the time to read.

But the main thing is in the sharing and exploring and you don't need me for that.
Always remember the larger context, the world situation, and purpose of our mission here...
Not only are we here to learn, but also to act, to share our knowledge, to correct major errors while we still can.
If we can't do something by ourselves, let us find champions to help us.
Not to create moneymaking ventures, but to get a job done that has the lives of millions depend on it.

[johnf]

Posted by DNA (here)

Posted by Sebastion (here)
You might want to look more closely at their mind/wetico for some answers as opposed to dark entities.

I think culture is possibly a dark entity. I think patriotism is a dark entity. I will use a tool video to explain what I'm saying as quickly as possible.
The lyrics of this song talk about watching the war on Iraq on TV. The lyrics state how confusing it is that guilt is not being felt while watching another culture experience such violence. Now vissually you see a giant tripod monster that seems to be connected to the televevision and in turn to the viewers. The viewer realizes this is wrong, he goes within and activates his own sense of autonomy, doing this deactivates the tripod monster and kills it's personal connection to the indiviudual.
When this takes place the individual goes through a metamorphisis, and expands spiritually.



When we look at the ancient sage of old who seekes enlightenment in a cave in the mountains, it wasn't that the cave has any inherently enlightening qualities, it is that society must be escaped for a while in order for it to be purged.

Anyway, it's just a thought, don't send your agent smith after me.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zb88usOBud0

Things like culture, and patriotism are basically neutral things, yet are things that have come into being for very good reasons.
They can be (and have been for a long time in civilizations on the planet), used as tools for archontic control.
In the long run, I think we will be able to look back and see archons as tools that came into being for good purposes, but because of the amount of attachment to certain outcomes, (such as certain groups running things for ever), they have been used to dark ends.
Culture, is a word that means to grow, we define things in certain ways to provide structure and organization that help everyone communicate better, and move ahead together.
When things get to the point where the enforcement becomes too exaggerated, and violent, the culture takes on a dark color.
Patriotism means devoted love and defense of ones country. If this is real it is the love and defense of the principles of truth that the country was founded on. If those principles were limited, or deliberate lies, patriotism would involve changing those agreements to fit a greater truth.
When patriotism becomes allegiance and obedience to selfish rulers, it becomes a force of destruction.

It seems anything that can be name has a positive and negative pole, and whatever the subject, proper balance of the basic principles are the most important aspect of the discussion.

The subject of integration of male and female principles, points to a very central issue, that in the case of , lets call it western civilization(to put a name on a culture), the male principle has been so overemphasized, it threatens every living thing, some even say the rest of creation and I happen to agree with that idea.
The balancing of these principles in the external world is going to require some intense participation by those who have balanced them within themselves.
One aspect of the "feminine" that is very helpful is to acknowledge and encourage, the very real parts of
the various cultures on the planet, as well as enough acceptance of other cultures so each can use what others have proven to work.

I think the community of Avalon, the Avalonic culture that exists here is not only the basic subject of this thread as I see it, but is one of many microcosms where we can accomplish some balancing on a community level of these two sides of the reality coin.
And that I think will spread primarily on an invisible level, but also visibly through Avalons connections with other cultures/communities/nations.
This is a timely subject.

jf

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by ulli (here)
I love it when people get IT, especially because they have all arrived there by taking different paths.
And what I love even more is when over the years they manage to refine their perceptions further, modernizing the language of the ancient wisdoms, thus making themselves better understood by seekers.

My only regret is that many highly enlightened men, who, more than the enlightened women I know, don't unite more into brotherly teams, with other men, who also got IT.
I so wish for this to happen.

The Here and Now thread has been fairly successful at this, real friendships have developed there; one only has to look at the statistics to see that this formula of equality has worked very well.

But there are so many threads on this forum where any attempt by a guy who is way up there in his cosmic understanding gets either ridiculed, or similarly, if challenged in any way but another man with a similar understanding, then the challenger is dismissed in no uncertain terms.
I find this quite disappointing.

The only way to explain this is that males perceive the world as a system of vertical hierarchies, and in their innate competitiveness they create mental ladders,
establishing higher and lower rungs and ranks, instead of consciously focusing on the equality principle of horizontal structures, and the power that unity creates.

I know a few males here who have made attempts to reach out, but typically have received mostly either ridicule or silence. And worse, if just three or four of the women here showed a bit of support for their ideas, a lot of the other men became alarmed, and even subjected the women who offered the support to hostile comments.

Not sure if these critics were objecting to the enlightened male's overconfident style, and wanted to teach him a useful lesson to improve his teaching methods, or if they were merely jealous. Self-image has a lot to do with this need to never appear naive, or gullible, and so it's often an automatic response to tear down another guy, often in the name of "healthy skepticism".

I do know that when anyone reaches a spiritual plateau of integrity dark entities take hold of those who are not quite there yet, and unbeknownst to them attempt to tear down the enlightened one.

But back to the lack of team spirit here. There is yet another aspect to this.

Even those males who have reached a higher level of integrity often still see themselves as unique. Maybe they have spent all of their time getting their message out, writing books, and have thus failed to discover that in the larger community the same awakening and enlightenment that happened to them has also happened to many, many others, and increasingly so. It is now becoming a world-wide phenomenon.
Every video talk that I have seen, done by a man who has come across some major universe secret, reveals this flaw of competitiveness in the male psyche, and their vanity.
They all seem to believe that they are on their own with their discoveries.

This era is no longer about male guru-ship, and their female followers, like we saw in the last (20th) century, but a brotherly-sisterly equality team job which all sides need to participate in.

The search for truth ought to lead to agreement, not further fragmentations.
Only then can a true force be established that will dissolve the hierarchy of black-ops and high-tech armed tax collectors.

I must agree with you Ulli , what an awesome thread !

most of my support here has been 60% woman 40 % man if i were to split it up. That lends to your argument. Most of my opposition has been 60% man 40% woman. mind you i dont feel i get that much opposition , not being special .. on the other hand whom i have opposed has nevr been gender based but rather content only as a trigger.

Ulli do you think this gets back to genetics ? Men have their competitive survival/ provider instinct . While women instinctively or traditionally ( arguably waining in this trait ) as Nurturer or Grower of the gardens ?

If i may expand lately in my own relationship i was hugely afraid to find my partner was a closet feminist .. this truly put my entire life into a spin. when i realised this was her secret i also realised why the relationship was being so difficult to just get along with our traditional roles. it felt un natural.

interestingly in reaching out to friends , men have been most supportive in discussing this and women just brush it off .. even very close female friends tend to leave it well alone ... hmmm not all but most. The one or two women that did want to genuinely discuss it with me were hugely opposed to the feminist movement interestingly.

im not trying to turn this around on you , im genuinely interested in this thread.

I am so with you on the equality thing. I truly admire capable women. Women with a " Can Do " attitude , take the bull by the horns and lead as well as follow and also walk side by side truly get my antlers hummin ! I remember going to a Top Gear Live show .. Audi was the major sponsor and the opening act was an Audi A3 doing some seriously crazy stunts and full on driving skills ... then the car skidded sideways perfectly in the middle of the stadium .. the lights lit up the car and a woman in a cat suit got out remioved her helmet to show a beautiful green eyes woman with long black hair .. like a Gypsy !

man i wanted to marry her that instant ! woo hoo ! that was truly sexy ! and i say that not in an obgective way but as a manner to show what is attractive to equality based men. Your cheauvanist pig types would find that insulting where as the equality based men would find a capable woman very attractive indeed.

In speaking to a friend of mine years ago who is a very powerful and successful business woman confided in me that she could not find a man to date her because they were intimidated by her powerful nature .. i told her that she hadnt actually met a real man yet, just a lot of pussies lol ...

When i told her i found her strong nature actually quite attractive she strangely recoiled .. later she confided in me , she realises she finds men that dont find her intimidating as intimidating ...

hmmm

Women dealing with their new found strengths will always have a teething period. I say go for it ! we real men love a strong woman.. but please please please dont ever stop doing what you do best and that is Nurture as the mother instincts .. we all need someone to cuddle and id prefer it to be a woman.

Naniu

[ulli]

Posted by DNA (here)

Posted by ulli (here)
I do know that when anyone reaches a spiritual plateau of integrity dark entities take hold of those who are not quite there yet, and unbeknownst to them attempt to tear down the enlightened one.

I Think this is especially true in day to day life for folks. It's the whole Matrix Movie and the agent smith philosophy. Here you will be having a casual conversation with somone, and somehow through mutual interest you both went "there". An hour or so later the person returns with a completely different closed minded view and seeks to ridicule you or attack you. It's as if the initial conversation went well, then their paradigm which was prepared to bend or even break issues out a distress signal and their social programming kicks in and the paradigm regains full strength and takes over the individual and prepells them to go and attack the person who was almost responsible for the paradigm changing.

I sometimes think this is a real entitiy. I think some of these social planted paradigms are in fact alive, dark entities as you say.

Posted by ulli (here)
Half a dozen of each were brought together in a room, no one had met the others before, and were filmed over thirty minutes.
The girls all came together, formed a circle and came to a consensus in a very short time.
The boys on the other hand created a pecking order, using insults, boasting even shoving, and in the same period had established an alpha male, his sidekick, and the others in gradually declining lower positions.

Look, I understand what you are trying to say in terms of the Avalon community. And I suppose there could be some truth to it.
But I don't see this as the norm in society at large.
You ever see the movie "mean girls"?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DkQ0szdOwyQ

Growing up I had a hard core group of friends,there were about six of us and we would do anything for one another. Yes we would rip on eachother from time to time but it was more a show of endearment than anything else. It was as if we were saying to one another, we are close, I can say rude things to you and you me because we are like family. There was a difference between rudeness within the group and something said in public in front of strangers. There were rules.



I was always perplexed at how I did not see this in women.
As a matter of fact, it was always my perception that women viewed eachother as competition in the age old game of "who is the hottest".
There is even a reality star who has turned this mantra into fame and fortune.
Where men will watch sports, women watch a lot of these reality shows where other woman have leveraged their hotness into celebrity.

I understand applying your theory to this forum. But in general, I think you have it backwards. In society at large, men tend to get along better with one another than women do.

This is what I have perceived anyway.

All perceptions are valid, and unique.
My take here is that while the world's elite is busy bombarding people with all kinds of scenarios via TV shows, people are going through an identity search, and trying out any role, since they are allowed a vast spectrum.
To me it's all a bit too complex now to analyze...too many different forces are at work.
Some women respond to the violence in society by being violent themselves, while others go into hiding. I have perceived a lot of young men, who have a shy nature, to be quite scared of today's girls. Whatever we observe there is somewhere an opposite example.
The outdoor societies I have lived in (Caribbean and Latino) are particular examples of men who tease each other in a joking manner, something the women don't participate in, maybe because they are still more stuck in the isolation of their homes, with kids and elderly relatives.

Anyway, where I wanted to go with this is to bring together the enlightened males.
Not into secret societies with rituals, but loose friendships...drop their mistrust of other men, and start connecting to pool their powers.
Men who are neither wimps nor jocks, nor alpha males, but are endowed with many different talents which they keep hidden until a situation arises where they need to use such a response. Some call him the Renaissance Man.
They are far from average, but are capable of maintaining a low-key life, with their humility betraying their real capacities.
I only compared boys and girls or men and women briefly to show that there are some basic differences in how the two genders do their bonding.
Anyway, I made my point, so now it is only a matter of waiting for the planted seeds to germinate.
You may all talk amongst yourselves.

[noprophet]

For context, I am 27 - male, and American.

Something I've done my entire life, and always wondered if women do this as well, is the acknowledgement nod.

Since I was a teenager I've continually noted that when men make eye contact in crowds, strangers, they often nod at one another. Almost like a territorial acknowledgement.

I'm sure many men here know what I'm talking about. My question to the ladies is, do women have any form of this?

[Carmen]

Excellent thread Ulli. I haven't read all of the posts, only the first page. My observation of men's behaviour is that it is always competitive to a greater or lessor degree. That can also manifest as jealousy and possessiveness. I also observe the same behaviour in myself! So, who am I to judge? Maybe if I chase away the tendency in myself there will be no mirrors of the same behaviour to observe?

Competitiveness can come up in so many ways. In my limited experiences tramping I've noticed when women lead the group they walk at a suitable pace to suit everyone and give encouragement to those behind. Put a certain type of man in front and it becomes a ruddy competition, a race to get there!!! Of course, not all men are like this and women can be just as competitive, but men seem to be more threatened by other men, especially if there is women to impress!

Competition verses Co-operation is a very interesting discussion but that's a bit off topic!