The male abuse of women

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
It is interesting because last night Music and I had an interesting discussion about something relevant to this discussion. We were talking about the effect of testosterone on men's behaviour. I remember friends when I was teenager bashing each other up...for fun. I remember friends sometimes being almost overtaken with the need to be violent. As a woman I found it difficult to understand.

We were talking about how in our society there are very few positive channels for this energy that is activated by testosterone. With our son we feel that it will be important to provide healthy outlets so that he can learn to use this energy in a constructive rather than a destructive way.

In the past in tribal situations there were many rites of passage for men that assisted them to become honourable men who functioned as a part of a community. I believe the disappearance of these rites have greatly contributed to the social problems we face today, as young men grow up without a strong sense of belonging.

hey, you remember the show ROOTS, about the men and women from Africa who were taken to America as slaves?

There was a scene in the earlier part of the show, where the older African men had all the 16 year olds from the village lined up,
and it was the day they got circumcised -- circumcision was actually an aspect of becoming a man in some African cultures.
They looked forward to the day with both fear and elation. After becoming circumcised, the young men stopped sleeping in the childrens' huts and were permitted to sleep in the mens' huts.

These same cultures in Africa also venerated the female menses and had a great inherent respect for the processes of life in all its forms.
For some reason the West really has a problem with the Great Mother goddesses and the black madonnas/dianas etc. from Greece.
It's almost like they are afraid to admit that somewhere, in the darkness of the unconscious, women are every bit as powerful as men.
African culture was actually quite a bit more respectful of the Divine Female aspect before they ran into Western cultures.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bill Ryan : Yes (as Tesla said also), some women can be pretty mean. But (as a rule!) --
•they don't start wars;
•they don't sadistically torture;
•they don't sexually abuse children;
•they have not ridden or sailed (or flown!) out in hordes to conquer other cultures;
•they don't slaughter animals for the sake of being macho.
Of course, there will always be exceptions (see my response to Snookie below). As a rule, though, women aren't a fraction as destructive and violent. Being mean, nasty and scheming is different. All humans are susceptible to that.

Bill, is this honestly your opinion ?

[Snookie]

I think the majority of problems in this world would recede if both men and women came into their individual place of power and focused on pleasing and delighting themselves while ensuring they weren't encroaching on anyone else's ability to please and delight themselves.

[Nickolai]

Hi, Bill,

And yet another contoversial post of you.
I have no idea why you are doing that. What is the purpose?
As stated above we should be beyond this stuff. We are all equal. There are bad guys and very bad girls in the world. The latter are wicked not because some mythical men did wrong to them, they are wicked cos they are wicked, basta!
No one discusses the abuse women do to men, no one discusses that women can be even more wickedly cruel than men are. No one discusses the child abuse made by mothers or women. So what's the agenda here? Have no idea.
I like women but sometimes this bla bla bla makes me reaaly angry.You ask me why? I tell you cos I saw very bad women treating men in a bad situations same as men though. No difference!
I talk about good people or bad people. To hell with sexiual difference!

Shame!

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Bill, I have to tell you this because it is important!!
Some people are on your case about things that you believe and it's not your fault, BUT --
So people stop attacking, I'd like to ask if people think about:

~ consider this: since women are put on the back burner, many of them learn the value of HIDING WRONGDOING.
~You might be less LIKELY to SEE a woman being abusive not only because she has less inclination to express, but because she has been condition to hide these feelings and expressions.
~Yes it's true that statistically it happens less -- BUT it still happens sometimes. Take the example of the book SYBIL. (the Mom sexually abused a girl!)

~The tragedy about women who abuse is that many are acting out a play about Helplessness and Power.
~But the thing is, they are physically adult yet mentally helpless, and are taking it out on someone who is Physically helpless AND mentally helpless, i.e. a child.
~Men abuse women because they look helpless, and some women turn around and abuse kids, because, YES, they are also helpless.

~TRUE lasting GOOD Power is enabling others, whether like us or not, whether helpless compared to us or not, to feel good about themselves and part of something good.
I am very proud of men who are willing to come out of hiding and talk about these things without getting mad or "feeling too proud".

You seem like a very decent person!!!
Remember that movie "The Master", if you've heard of it?
A mentally helpless (war veteran) man is brought back from one of the world wars, and ends up in a cult -- after being assimilated and programmed, he starts defending his own abusers because the abusive system makes him feel less helpless, i.e. he has become a part of something that to him makes sense. But when things go unexpectedly, his reaction is violent and so is the reaction of everyone else in the cult... they have a good fundamental message, but they start using techniques learned from the people from whom they are trying to break away.


It's very hard to pioneer a new system and also implement that system.
How can we distance ourselves from emotions without ultimately falling prey to even stronger emotions?
It's like we all live on this huge pendulum and we can't get off.
All we can do is try to take a good look at things before we try jumping, LOL
or just ride it back to a better spot. lol better.

(edit: I wrote "luck" when I meant "look")

[Flash]

Nickolai, it seems that Russia has something to teach us. THe hell with sexual differences.

(shut, whispering: but deep down, Nickolai, would you say that there is all kinds of misconceptions and préjudices on both sides, but stronger against women?)

[Nickolai]

Posted by Flash (here)
Nickolai, it seems that Russia has something to teach us. THe hell with sexual differences.

(shut, whispering: but deep down, Nickolai, would you say that there is all kinds of misconceptions and préjudices on both sides, but stronger against women?)

Dearest Flashie...)))


Honestly, I do not think so. Not here at least. Not in my reality. Here we are equal (And again: In my reality!).
And honestly I care not what they talk about.
Here I know women who have made their way up just working with their bodies. When up there, they do their best to belittle men...))
Not a rule, but, oh, so very often.
BUt then again, Russia is different. We have made a huge way from 80's to now. Russian women could be different from others. Who knows...))

Still, I think it is a silliest thing to discuss. Especially keeping in mind what is being discussed on the forum: the human evolution, evolving, being as one, love, peace.
Where does it come from. Really, I am perplexed..

[Nanoo Nanoo]

i think the shift thats occoured ie the womens movement for equality, is absolutely nessesary. its brought about a lot of open woulds and thats the back lash which is to be expected. it was always going to be a two and fro of opinion till the dust settles.

If i may point out what i understand of Patriarchy. In the period of about 4000 bc and before it was generally reported relationships were Egalitarian.. ie couples natural propensity was to be equal, thats important to take note of... It wasnt till about 3700 ( i believe ) when droughts hit the middle east and fighting started for food supplies that men ( who were fighting for the survival of their families ) had to take a leadership role in order to organise the home and defend the family. It was at that point the Man had to leave and hunt and the women stayed home to tend to the family. This was nothing to do with rights , it had to do with survival.

It has since, in some cultureds, manifested as an extension model of this system but its not like that everywhere.

Now im talking strictly about rights , not sexual abuse. Sexual abuse is a totally different subject and has to do with personal security, not rights.

What i see is a progression of this model turn into a mens club till say the turn of the century.

I think in strictest terms you can give anybody Power and regardless of gender they can be suceptible of abusing it or doing the right thing with it but it all depends on their up bringing and their personal views and morality.. i think all reasonable people would agree to that.

These sorts of threads are good for abused people getting it off their chest and thats healthy but please bear in mind the ones who ever abused you still have power over you while you still carry haterd in your heart... Remember im not talking sexual abuse , thats totally another thread .. im talking about abuse of rights and power.



N

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)

Bill Ryan : Yes (as Tesla said also), some women can be pretty mean. But (as a rule!) --
•they don't start wars;
•they don't sadistically torture;
•they don't sexually abuse children;
•they have not ridden or sailed (or flown!) out in hordes to conquer other cultures;
•they don't slaughter animals for the sake of being macho.
Of course, there will always be exceptions (see my response to Snookie below). As a rule, though, women aren't a fraction as destructive and violent. Being mean, nasty and scheming is different. All humans are susceptible to that.

Bill, is this honestly your opinion ?

Yes -- with the caveat (as I said) "as a rule". For non-English-speakers, that means "usually".

Also to Tesla: I know one can always find women who are cruel, mean, scheming, sociopathic and violent. (Jagman's story -- wow.) And I have met and am privileged to know some most remarkably wonderful, gentle, kind and wise men.

I'm talking about the shape of the world and the trajectory of its history.

As best I know:

• No women were among those who crucified Christ.
• No women took part in the burning of the Cathars in the Albigensian Crusades.
• No women were among those who betrayed Atahualpa and destroyed the Inca civilization.
• No women were among the Aztec priests who cut out the hearts of live virgins.
• No women took part in the Massacre at Wounded Knee.
• No women condemned millions of people to death in Stalin's Gulags.
• No women gassed, shot, raped, starved or tortured millions of Jews in the Nazi death camps.
• Few women work in the factory ships that wantonly kill huge whales despite their being seriously endangered.
• Few women take part in the annual culling of dolphins and seals in Norway and Canada.
• Few women are the CEOs of major corporations that are trashing the planet and its resources.
• Few women took part in the macho wholesale big game hunting massacre of the African wildlife in the 19th century.
• No women are among the elite controllers of the world. (Hilary Clinton is an underling.)
• Anyone reading this could generate hundreds more examples.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Yes -- with the caveat (as I said) "as a rule". For non-English-speakers, that means "usually".

Ok thank you : 0 ) i strongly disagree and have experienced things to the contrary.

•No women were among those who crucified Christ. reportedly no , however none of us were there to be sure however he was willingly crucified to protect the bearer of the spirit and teaching which was Mary Magdelene.. it would be important to note she was the bearer of the message and had to be protected at all costs , this is of course the way i interpreted how that murky tale happened.

A lot of these things you list are things the more physically strong species were sent out to do to defend their families or as their believed duty.

•No women are among the elite controllers of the world. (Hilary Clinton is an underling.)

i think you are abusing Hilary's position by saying that Bill.. hmm

here is a list of the top 100 power women and their positions. I think most would agree they are in Key positions ie IMF , DHS etc .. these are very influential positions .. Im not having a go at women , ive learned that anger dosent solve anything and i owe it to my sister who is here and knows who she is : 0 )

I merely want to point out that women have achieved so much and ARE in huge positions of power all around the world, i refer to forbes

http://www.forbes.com/power-women/

I hope they use their positions to do good and make a shift for us.. we will see in time.

I believe if we do not acknowledge the progress made so far we wont see where we need to go from here.

The subject of concentrating on the past problem i think is counter productive .. now that women have made their case how can we re integrate and be happy again ? i think all men and women here wish to progress and perhaps this is a katalyst for that ? for understanding ? i hope so because that would be great !

N

[Snookie]

Posted by Snookie (here)
"If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different."

I'm not so sure about this. There are plenty of women who are like Hilary Clinton who would rise to positions of power. Do you really think the world would be any better off with women such as her being in charge? I have seen my share of girls fights over the years, and we can be every bit as vicious as any male. We can be even more vicious and cutting with our words.

Women do hold 50% of the responsibility of how both their daughters and sons are raised. If mothers are fearful of their husbands that sends a powerful message to their children of BOTH sexes, and the cycle is repeated again.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)

Bill Ryan : Yes (as Tesla said also), some women can be pretty mean. But (as a rule!) --
•they don't start wars;
•they don't sadistically torture;
•they don't sexually abuse children;
•they have not ridden or sailed (or flown!) out in hordes to conquer other cultures;
•they don't slaughter animals for the sake of being macho.
Of course, there will always be exceptions (see my response to Snookie below). As a rule, though, women aren't a fraction as destructive and violent. Being mean, nasty and scheming is different. All humans are susceptible to that.

Bill, is this honestly your opinion ?

Yes -- with the caveat (as I said) "as a rule". For non-English-speakers, that means "usually".

Also to Tesla: I know one can always find women who are cruel, mean, scheming, sociopathic and violent. (Jagman's story -- wow.) And I have met and am privileged to know some most remarkably wonderful, gentle, kind and wise men.

I'm talking about the shape of the world and the trajectory of its history.

As best I know:

• No women were among those who crucified Christ.
• No women took part in the burning of the Cathars in the Albigensian Crusades.
• No women were among those who betrayed Atahualpa and destroyed the Inca civilization.
• No women were among the Aztec priests who cut out the hearts of live virgins.
• No women took part in the Massacre at Wounded Knee.
• No women condemned millions of people to death in Stalin's Gulags.
• No women gassed, shot, raped, starved or tortured millions of Jews in the Nazi death camps.
• Few women work in the factory ships that wantonly kill huge whales despite their being seriously endangered.
• Few women take part in the annual culling of dolphins and seals in Norway and Canada.
• Few women are the CEOs of major corporations that are trashing the planet and its resources.
• Few women took part in the macho wholesale big game hunting massacre of the African wildlife in the 19th century.
• No women are among the elite controllers of the world. (Hilary Clinton is an underling.)
• Anyone reading this could generate hundreds more examples.

And how many women were aware the men in their lives were doing these things and did nothing to stop them? My point is we all (both men and women) share in the blame of these things, whether by "commission" or "omission".

If women teach their sons to honour women, and don't allow their spouses to dishonour them. They will have taught both their sons how to treat women, and also their daughters not to put up with any crap from men.

One of the main problems as I see it is that mothers have taught their daughters that they are nothing without a man in their lives. They don't tell their sons they are nothing without a woman. When both sexes finally feel complete within themselves and don't get into unhealthy relationships because they fear "growing old alone" or that they are "less than" without the other, they may finally begin picking partners who are truly good for them, and allow them to be all they are meant to be.

[Atlas]

The fact that woman and man complement each other induces that they form a whole.
Therefore, the only solution is equality. There is no compromise.

[Poly Hedra]

A heated debate eh?
I can see all sides and of course have an opinion. Growing up with a violent mother who in turn had a violent father. I always thought nobody would take me seriously if I told anyone that she was beating the crap out of me, because she was a woman and women are nurturing and kind, of course.

But I think we're all getting a bit hunkered down here, because when we look at male and female we should be looking at the bigger picture; matriarchy, patriarchy, masculine, feminine. This energy is askew on a micro and macro scale.
We are being polarised and brainwashed by advertising , pop stars and movies to behave and react in certain ways, because we saw it in the movies.

Soap operas are another example. Don't you think that when we are shown people sleeping around, jumping into bed together, having affairs, plotting murder and revenge... Don't you think that we are desensitized and taught how to behave by watching actors, that we look at harder and more explicit images all day, every day!
Sex sells!
The way I see it, the masculine energy has been the dominant energy for a long time now, in it's negative extreme we have abuse of power. The feminine is slowly becoming stronger.
The abuse of women by men comes from the energy of abuse of power over another, this energy is seen in every facet of life. Every twisted version is experienced until balance is regained.

[Sierra]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
The subject of concentrating on the past problem i think is counter productive .. now that women have made their case how can we re integrate and be happy again ? i think all men and women here wish to progress and perhaps this is a katalyst for that ? for understanding ? i hope so because that would be great !
N

Past? I have never seen so many news reports of violence towards girls and women, the world over, as I have in the last twelve months... It is what it is.

Sierra

[Camilo]

At the time of the Fall of Consciousness, it was necessary to create an energetic field or structure to hold and prevent the Earth from falling into a complete elimination. That structure became known as the third dimension, and it was very dense, conditional and rigid. To guide the Earth back into its intended brilliance, a very powerful aspect of Creator known as the Divine Feminine was brought to the Earth and to Her inhabitants. You see, before the Fall of Consciousness, Earth was a very rarified consciousness of Light, not the physical form you know it as today.

The Divine Feminine’s guidance took on the role of the matriarch. Its purpose was very clear and focused, yet it operated within the very rigid and fear-based structure of the third dimension. The Divine Feminine’s purpose was the survival of Earth and humanity.

At the time, those in female form ruled, protected, and helped humanity to survive. It was a matriarchal global culture for a very long time. The focus was on the continuation of life. And while this goal was accomplished, the global culture that survived was very much out of balance with regard to the masculine nature. As the matriarchal domination, rigidity, rules and control continued, the masculine could tolerate no more and eventually rose up, revolted, protested, and took their power. The tables turned and the global culture shifted from female dominated to male dominated. Of course, there are still the rare subcultures on the planet today that are of a matriarchal nature.

In that transition into patriarchy there was third dimensional resentment, resistance, anger and retaliation. The patriarchy took command and the feminine was dominated and subjugated.

This is now changing. As the critical mass of balanced feminine and masculine creative energy is restored in both men and women, and personal power is taken back into our own lives.

[grannyfranny100]

It has been a tough transition for men. I was on the first edge of woman's lib and didn't "settle" for marriage to get out of my parents' house. Sure it was tough "fighting" the workplace system but worth it. I was not interested in being a house slave controlled by male dominance. Eventually I did marry but I thought everyday males were losers. They had lost any male enhancing tribal rituals generations ago, required unbelievable amounts of stroking and were just resting on their automatically assumed superiority.

Everything was changing. Men could no longer provide a one income family life that was the essence of their presumed superiority in our society. How could they assume they could rule "their" household when they couldn't even provide the money. Suddenly women could earn a living and didn't have to stay married to a lousy provider. If she was abused so the male could feel superior, she could dump him and the divorce rate skyrocketed. With advances in birth control, women could indulge in recreational sex the way men had been doing for years if they wanted to: love them and leave them. Over the next few generations, men were reduced to being sperm donors. That is a lot for men to absorb about their changing role and I think the adjustment has been harder for men as women changed.

Unfortunately, women adopted male tactics to get ahead in the male dominate business world rather than adding a female view to the decision-making process. Women learned to play hard ball and made sure they had better credentials than their male competitors. If women were competing for a job requiring a bachelor's degree, they made sure they had an MBA. Meanwhile men were bonding around the water cooler oblivious to what was happening. The best they could come up with was "she slept her way to the top or mid management."

Women with their newly minted MBAs quickly figured out that the GDP did not include child rearing activities so they heartlessly dumped kids at childcare facilities in pursuit of greed, power and equality with male superiority. The behavior, manners and values of the next generations shows the sad outcome of children raised by TV and cheap childcare. And women gave up their social service activities that men depended on to counterbalance corporate America's lack of concern about poverty, the environment, etc.

Although the myth of romantic love still exists with the young, neither men or women evaluate a relationship's capacity to nurture each other's higher ambitions. They don't think beyond their sexual organs and reproducing because it will be the most creative thing they will ever do.

I liked what my college roommate did. She and her husband both worked and had a plan. They lived on one income and banked the other for a house down payment. When they were ready, they bought a house and had a baby. Since they were use to living on one income, she could stay home, make her own organic baby food and raise their child with the values they had. She returned to her M.A. career later and is well known in her field despite the baby break. Of course they didn't have every new adult toy as soon as it was marketed. They knew how to delay gratification rather than buy into debt to satisfy their immediate needs. And of course they didn't go, Oh, woe is me" and seek every government "entitlement" meant to entrap people.

I think both sexes have a long way to go so they can establish a relationship that enhances both of their long term goals and not just their reproduction gratification. As it is now the parents have to hand off the child for visitation rights at local police stations because they can't be civil to each other for the sake of the child.

Men and women need to cooperate to get us over the hump of male dominated religions, wars and gross government budgets for the military industrial interests and once again value the family.

[Sierra]

Posted by Camilo (here)
At the time of the Fall of Consciousness, it was necessary to create an energetic field or structure to hold and prevent the Earth from falling into a complete elimination. That structure became known as the third dimension, and it was very dense, conditional and rigid. To guide the Earth back into its intended brilliance, a very powerful aspect of Creator known as the Divine Feminine was brought to the Earth and to Her inhabitants. You see, before the Fall of Consciousness, Earth was a very rarified consciousness of Light, not the physical form you know it as today.

The Divine Feminine’s guidance took on the role of the matriarch. Its purpose was very clear and focused, yet it operated within the very rigid and fear-based structure of the third dimension. The Divine Feminine’s purpose was the survival of Earth and humanity.

At the time, those in female form ruled, protected, and helped humanity to survive. It was a matriarchal global culture for a very long time. The focus was on the continuation of life. And while this goal was accomplished, the global culture that survived was very much out of balance with regard to the masculine nature. As the matriarchal domination, rigidity, rules and control continued, the masculine could tolerate no more and eventually rose up, revolted, protested, and took their power. The tables turned and the global culture shifted from female dominated to male dominated. Of course, there are still the rare subcultures on the planet today that are of a matriarchal nature.

Damn pendulum.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Snookie (here)
And how many women were aware the men in their lives were doing these things and did nothing to stop them? My point is we all (both men and women) share in the blame of these things, whether by "commission" or "omission".

Yes, we all share the blame ... but there are differences, on average, between how men and how women are involved in all this.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by conec (here)

A heated debate eh?

I think it's an excellent debate (more of a passionate discussion, really), and there have been some wonderful posts from a lot of people.

conec's post above that I quoted here is really just an opportunity for me to hook on to it to say thanks to all. A short while back (see his post #50 above), Nanoo strongly disagreed with me, but the exchange was very respectful and intelligent, and I genuinely appreciated his post. I would love this thread to continue in the same vein.

This issue is not simple and certainly encompasses a huge amount of culture, history, politics, social custom, individual predisposition, and a great deal else! What we're doing here is laying out a great mosaic on the table for all to see, and we all have the opportunity to learn by considering each other's different viewpoints.

[norman]

This looks like a big subject here, so I s'pose I better be careful.

"base disregard for the Divine Feminine"

We should be so lucky.

I'm waiting for the issue of base disregard for the divine masculine to kick in and become a flavour that get's the nod from thinkers.