The male abuse of women

[Anchor]

I found this interesting list today, a hop skip and a jump from some reddit surfing.

101 Everyday Ways for Men to Be Allies to Women

http://michaelurbina.com/101-everyda...lies-to-women/

It is too much to copy, but have a read, I think this guy has a lot of this thought out quite well.

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Posted by Anchor (here)
I found this interesting list today, a hop skip and a jump from some reddit surfing.

101 Everyday Ways for Men to Be Allies to Women

http://michaelurbina.com/101-everyda...lies-to-women/

It is too much to copy, but have a read, I think this guy has a lot of this thought out quite well.

thanks anchor ..i had a read of this .. just a show of hands ,i want to know if its just me that thinks this , but the guy they describe as the stereotypical male .. is that a real person ? ( not a joke ) is that what women have been putting up with or is it an interpretation of the worst case scenario for a total jerk and then used as a template for the average man ?

honestly i am wondering if i am having the same experience you guys are because i cannot relate to much of it in terms of how " men " think or at least the men i know and converse with .. hmm

" The femminist guide to non creepy flirting " now thats an eye opener

i must admit something ,i feel quite detatched .. i know it was bad out there but can it seriously be that un normal ? do these people exist ?

i need to get out more

N

[CD7]

What we need to cover are specific instances of how MEN have blocked Women from being equal.

Im a bit perplexed here...would not see MEN as the ones who have to fix this?...

Its a overarching issue....its a model that has been cast and set up by WHO? I certainly do not know...however the results are obvious for us to SEE.

Depending on what neck of the woods you reside in, also depends on the gender EXPECTATIONS that are literally brainwashed in from cradle to grave.

Ive noticed sex being apart of the conversation and I suppose im confused about tht too? An individuals sexual appetite, to me, is just a difference from one individual to the next (im not including abuse here) and should not be categorized by gender. As a female my experience with "sex" has not AT ALL been what ive been told it SHOULD BE, or should have looked like.

If there any suggestions, it would be if we could be seen as a BEING/INDIVIDUAL first and no CONDITIONING of what type of gender role a person SHOULD BE PLAYING. The attraction from male/female...could be viewed just as if someone were attracted or gravitated to a friend of the same sex. No expectations and each BEING cultivated to be their own SOVEREIGHN self and learn to be dependent upon oneself first and foremost---support can come from everyone in a community who viewed each other as "family"

The crux of relationships is we are depending on anothers consciousness.....when in REALITY WE HAVENT EVEN LEARNED TO CONTROL OUR OWN CONSCIOUSNESS AS A SPECIES

So what is a committed relationship? its two individuals driving a car and each is dependent on the other to keep the wheel in the same direction----hummm how well does that go? Not very well...especially when the road has been made MUCH MORE difficult to steer, obstacles in all directions and in addition each is told how to drive regardless of their own compass. People change directions/consciousness all the time. And the directions each gender is conditioned to see themselves driving in, seems to be very counterproductive to any real harmonious endeavor! Its like forcing to opposite magnets together

Well welcome to the world and its base of operations!!! If we also think about it....a womens role is somewhat set up to view man in similar way we are conditioned to view GOD. Put your trust in him, relinquish your own power, and he will provide. You are to serve him and he is to be your lifelong caretaker. Its quite the pattern we have throughout our globe. Relinquishing of one's power over to another. Never really being CULTIVATED to be our own sovereign individual with the power to create AND LEARN HOW TO DRIVE OUR OWN CAR FIRST before you add another individual in to drive ALONG WITH YOU

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Quote from Christine.

All I could say, that if a male became a female right now IS THE ONLY WAY THEY WOULD REALLY GET IT...
And ill say im sure this goes for women as well!! Overall in my view, its a gender conditioning over a life that effects BOTH SIDES

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=umKMUH-_K7E

The conditioning............ odd isn't it, I know this is about male abuse but......17 years ago I cleaned my act up, I was very much a dope addict and checked myself in in a clinic voluntarily for 15 months.....there I witnessed that the root of addiction comes from conditioning by upbringing, experiencing lack....of affection, understanding, love.....experiencing abuse, physical, emotional, spiritual, sexual.. there I witnessed first hand that both genders handled this differently, man could turn to self destructive aggression and make a mess of things in a very obvious way, women however who got taught not to fight and be violent had a totally different strategy but no less violent in nature...... tears..........and sexual manipulation........ very cruel and very much a powerful weapon and also very hardcore abusive.....and pre programmed by many many mothers into their daughters, I don't know where to take this from here on....... but I thought that observation at least deserved to be pointed out as well................in any case, different strategies can give pretty much the same results, f@cked up people who assign blame to each other, until they see it for what it really is/was, hmm,
complicated subject eh. Hope I didn't drift to far off topic with the above.

BTW, there is a chapter in "quite weapons for silent wars" that deals with this subject, a must read.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)

Posted by Paula (here)

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
Ok So can we try something ?

Ladies , can you each make a short list , lets say 3 things , you would like to see change that is not already in process.

Identifying the problems is key to finding solutions.

SO far we have number ..

1 : No more circumcisions ( id agree with that one , ouch ) tip of the ice berg .. priceless: 0 )

keep them coming

N

• Accept strong women, don’t try to change them into something they are not.
• Know that if we have different opinions, it doesn’t make yours wrong. They’re just different.
• Be as supportive of us as we are for you.
• Life is not a competition.

Note: I know not all men fit the above. In fact, I'm encourage since I've come to Avalon. There are many open-minded, supportive men and women.

I hear you on this Paula but can i pick on you here , i hate this to be you but is this not a relationship issue ? its not nessesarily an equality issue imo. I mean you could reverse the angle and be talking about a reversal of sexes here.

What we need to cover are specific instances of how MEN have blocked Women from being equal.

In terms of your situation however , which is important to address, can i offer some advise and i speak from experience. Anyone can get a " dud " when they pick a partner, male or female ... the problem is we think they will change and because we have invested time and effort we stick around till the defective model has a malfunction and we put up with it for whatever reason.

The advise i give to you is this .. The moment you notice abnormal behaviour , get out and leave. If you stick around you are asking for trouble. There are plenty of awesome people in the world to date so move on sonner rather than later. This is for everybody .. dont suffer in a dead end relationship ! AND dont have kids with a defective model. Ladies in particular you should be very careful and vet the potential sperm doner , you are going to have that child you are stuck with him forever.

MAKE wise decisions.

N

Ladies , can you each make a short list , lets say 3 things , you would like to see change that is not already in process.

Hi Nanoo Nanoo,

This is what you asked: you would like to see change that is not already in process.. From my perspective, you’ve demonstrated some of my points. And I understand it is your perspective. Which just made a case for another on my list.

After my post, I went to bed and thought more. It’s a list that fits both men and women. Which brings me to your point that mine is about relationships. To that I say, yes and no. My list is for BOTH a relationship and world perspective. And aren’t relationships what life is all about? Between two, between many? We don’t need different sets of rules. We getting the heck of Dodge, I mean duality. ‘Keep it simple’, is what works for me.

If the advice you gave on relationships was for me specifically then I’d say: nope, not even close. The advice you gave was for the Paula 35+ years ago. Which is why often I add dates. It is my hope when I share these personal slices of life, that people are encouraged to make change for themselves. One CAN rise out of beaten down emotionally, physically, and/or financially. One gleans knowledge through experience, takes action sooner than later, which transforms into greater knowledge, wisdom and love of self. And comes to rest and KNOW, “Never again.” One last point here. I've got enough life under my belt that I'd add, the experience, knowledge, wisdom and love grows exponentially.

When you say, “No, not, this. Yes that,” means am I willing to put forth the time and energy to see if any make the “Top 10 Nanoo Nanoo list?” No. That’s a game I’ve alway walked way from. From one perspective, that’s an example of competition and not cooperation. Which is one from my list. To me, this is the brainstorm stage. Everyone comes up with solutions. We list, lists, list, without monitor filters.

Not directed at you here: Folks with life experience, street wise savvy, or creativity, or intelligent often see things from the greater perspective. That’s why many test poorly on standardized tests. The makers of the test with tunnel vision want parrot answers. Shiver.

Here’s another for my list: Willingness for all to see from the greater perspective.

Peace,
Paula

[mahalall]

An ethnographic analysis of the abuses of men over females is expanded when gender roles within nursing are reviewed.
One might then conclude that it is not gender but miss use of power that is the problem.

[kenaz]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------

In my opening post, I quoted several paragraphs from the transcript of my interview with Lucia René. These fully represent my own views.

I wanted to make a clearer (brief!) personal statement of my views, which my closest friends know I've held for a long time.

• I'm not in any way proud to be a man.
• I feel ashamed of what all men have done to the planet and the human race over the millennia.
• Men are fundamentally warlike, controlling, domineering, and destructive. The more enlightened and aware men are fully aware of this tendency in their gender-disposition and always seek to compensate.
• If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different.

Bill...
Do you think you would be a better person if you were female?
Be proud of the man you are, as I am for the woman I am.
Eliminating men as a problem solver will not work. We need both.
Just thank god we don't have three sexes. Yikes!

[Ernie Nemeth]

For some reason, I can't read today without my shoulder and upper back going into spasms. So I'll make this short.

In my life I've had to take a stance on many issues with friends, family and strangers on various topics that polarize people. The first has always been government and corporations not being the all-knowing, beneficient entities most make them out to be.

And the very next one is the horrible legacy men from the past have left us grappling with - and their contemporaries who continue to promulgate this same mindset and attitude to this very day. Compassionless, pragmatic, cold-hearted reason. I've always held that women would make far better leaders.

And lately, living in the multi-cultural east end of Toronto, putting down the "white man's" brand of justice, which is oh so zenophobic and prejudicial. Many times I must admit my embarrassment at being "white".

Yet even so, I am an example of at least a partially "rehabilatated" "white man". And I am in the vangaurd and an ambassador of a new human that is no longer defined by color or race. Here, in my neck of the woods, I am an example for all to see - and I am very much aware of my role and the great responsibility it entails. My attitudes help others see that in many ways it is not my race that is to blame, nor its color, rather, it is simply (well, maybe not simple exactly) an intellectual void and a proclivity to cling to emotional immaturity that we are all susceptible to. (it has a lot to do with the lack of a rite of passage, where the tribe conducts a ceremony to welcome its newest adult member - those boys (and girls) who have had good parents have had this ceremony in some modern form or another)[my daughter got hers at around age fourteen, won't go into details]

hmmm, the T1 seems to have allowed me to write without much pain. Guess I'll go back and read the other comments then...

[Sierra]

Posted by CD7 (here)

What we need to cover are specific instances of how MEN have blocked Women from being equal.

Well welcome to the world and its base of operations!!! If we also think about it....a womens role is somewhat set up to view man in similar way we are conditioned to view GOD. Put your trust in him, relinquish your own power, and he will provide. You are to serve him and he is to be your lifelong caretaker. Its quite the pattern we have throughout our globe. Relinquishing of one's power over to another. Never really being CULTIVATED to be our own sovereign individual with the power to create AND LEARN HOW TO DRIVE OUR OWN CAR FIRST before you add another individual in to drive ALONG WITH YOU

Have to tell you... I just read a news article some minister in the Saudi government announced that driving cars damages a women's ovaries and reproductive organs...

[transiten]

I'd like to direct your attention to how much of all that is possible to own on planet earth is divided between men and women.....guess guess, google google...think think....

Do you think money is power? Even if extreeeeemly much money doesn't have anthing to do with the love of money, but the love of power and the fear of loosing it and not belong to the group that has "this amount of income" lifestyle and power.

Pple have a need to belong to a group and more often than not stay with a group even if it doesn't reflect their values. F.i it's more important to identify with those who fly o Thailand once a year, than to stay in Sweden and not pollute the environment. This instinct of survival to not be thrown out of the pack supercedes the ethical values.

Some 20 years ago men owned more than 99% of all possible values on earth. That means..well you can count for yourself exactly! I don't know whether it's higher or lower now but probably not more than slightly above or below 99%

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by Sierra (here)

Posted by CD7 (here)

What we need to cover are specific instances of how MEN have blocked Women from being equal.

Well welcome to the world and its base of operations!!! If we also think about it....a womens role is somewhat set up to view man in similar way we are conditioned to view GOD. Put your trust in him, relinquish your own power, and he will provide. You are to serve him and he is to be your lifelong caretaker. Its quite the pattern we have throughout our globe. Relinquishing of one's power over to another. Never really being CULTIVATED to be our own sovereign individual with the power to create AND LEARN HOW TO DRIVE OUR OWN CAR FIRST before you add another individual in to drive ALONG WITH YOU

Have to tell you... I just read a news article some minister in the Saudi government announced that driving cars damages a women's ovaries and reproductive organs...

Hmmm, you'd expect the same thing would happen to a mans prostate and nuts in that case eh, what an idiot, or maybe he carry's his a round in a small backpack to prevent sitting on it.

[Sierra]

Posted by Nanoo Nanoo (here)
i know it was bad out there but can it seriously be that un normal ? do these people exist ?

i need to get out more

N

Yes, I raise my hand, that is normal behavior out there.

Sierra

[Robin]

A thread of this nature is a controversial one. I believe that it won't go anywhere---it's an argument that nobody can win. Here is my own contention:

1. Biologically, men respond to stress better.
2. Biologically, women are more caring and understanding.
3. Both men and women should seek to balance the masculine and feminine.
4. Working in conjunction, why can't men and women create a reformed system where each contributes their strengths at equal levels given to them biologically?
5. The above points do not apply to all men and women. But most.

To soften the mood of the thread, here is a wonderful video of a woman and man duo performing a dance called "Symbiosis." Just like organisms interact with one another in elegant unity, so can women and men. This is one of the most beautiful performances I have ever seen, and I hope you all watch it: :

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FOZ6KnVPvIU

[Carmen]

I have come to a place of balance in my idea of, and my experience, of man and women relationships. My age 63, is a factor but throughout my life and especially after my waking up period I had much learning and realisations to do with male and female relationships. I had a passionate and often stormy forty year marriage. I have always considered that my husband was chosen for me from a deeper perspective. I loved him but he was also part of my karmic lesson for this life!

From childhood I could never lie on the ground for very long. I could not sunbath much, for instance. My whole hip and pelvic region would seize up and it would be very painful. As an adult, lying on my back for a massage for very long would mean it would take ages to get up as I would be very stiff and in pain. Together with this another strange thing about me was that whenever I left home by myself I would feel as though I was escaping. I would speed away from home but coming back my car would get slower and slower. My kids remember this. There was a dread of going home, although when I got home things would be fine generally. I began asking within about this as it was weird behaviour and not really related to my now reality. I asked within for quite a long time. Just on and off, not really expecting an answer.

Well, one day I started getting what could only be described as a download of another life from ancient times. I was baby sitting one of my grandchildren and this toddler was homesick for her parents who had suggested I take her for a ride in a vehicle to settle her down as she loved going places and often went to sleep when being driven. So, we drove places, and this is when the download started, in the car. This download was me in another life. It was a life of terrible physical and sexual abuse! I was a captured girl from, I think a priveleged family and I was a slave, concubine or lessor wife. I was very feisty and pissed off with what had happened and fought back like a wildcat! I was like a wild plaything of a sheik and his cohorts and very much abused. I also danced very well and remember entertaining men with my dance. The sheik was my husband in this life and the soldier/cohorts were past sexual partners in this life. This sheik also had a spoilt fat sister who would loll about on silken cushions and had control over her brother so some reason. This downloading memory was like a click click click that just fell into place. The sister is the same sister in my husbands present life who I saw very clearly. She still has much control over him. I had three or four children whom three are my first three children in this life. The forth I had some inkling was my husbands father. This father never liked my husband and that was strange to me as he was a good son in this life. This karmic connection explained the clear dislike. I died in that old life at age sixteen from the terrible injuries to my body. I have no idea what I'd done in another life to bring upon myself a life of abuse or maybe it was not a karmic lesson! I was always trying to escape, hence the escapism thoughts in this life.

So, this was an amazing experience and explained some strange things about me in this life. This present life was time to meet those ancient or other life characters and to forgive, transcend or let go. My whole hip/ pelvic region let go of that memory and after that download I had no more lower back pain or locked up pelvis. I also let go of my husband and for the first time in our marriage I refused him sex. I gave back to myself the power to say no and it was wonderful.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by kenaz (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
-------

In my opening post, I quoted several paragraphs from the transcript of my interview with Lucia René. These fully represent my own views.

I wanted to make a clearer (brief!) personal statement of my views, which my closest friends know I've held for a long time.

• I'm not in any way proud to be a man.
• I feel ashamed of what all men have done to the planet and the human race over the millennia.
• Men are fundamentally warlike, controlling, domineering, and destructive. The more enlightened and aware men are fully aware of this tendency in their gender-disposition and always seek to compensate.
• If the world were populated (somehow!) entirely by women, I do believe the entire planet, and most cultures, would be entirely different.

Bill...
Do you think you would be a better person if you were female?
Be proud of the man you are, as I am for the woman I am.
Eliminating men as a problem solver will not work. We need both.
Just thank god we don't have three sexes. Yikes!

Yes, we need both! I said in my post #49 here:

I'm talking about the shape of the world and the trajectory of its history.

In answers to your points!

• Do you think you would be a better person if you were female?

No, not necessarily at all.

• Be proud of the man you are.

I truly am.

Posted by SamwiseTheBrave (here)

A thread of this nature is a controversial one. I believe that it won't go anywhere---it's an argument that nobody can win.

Hi, Sam! Not an argument. I'm finding this a fascinating and highly intelligent discussion. There is no enmity at all... just the sharing of different and most fascinating, points of view.

[Robin]

I also believe that men's and women's brains have been intentionally hampered with by Reptilians to purposely pit us against one another for thousands of years. To me it never made sense why so many hearts have been broken over egotistical and lame reasons by both men and women. Seems fishy to me.

[Mike Gorman]

A very complex topic this one, to put it mildly. I think there are two obvious dimensions to it-the macro-institutional, and the private-individual. Obviously people of either gender can be good, Bad,
Evil, Saintly-we all as individuals have a unique 'Onto-genesis', we develop in response to our upbringing, environment,Education... and all those elements influence our behavior and attitudes. While the larger political landscape,
and social institutional climate is one we encounter and have little control over-at least as individuals.
I resonate with Jagman's story-I grew up in a family where my Father was a troubled, angry and rather bitter man-wounded by his experiences in WWII,
and also his upbringing in a Northern English working-class household (Get the Tea on Mrs!) So I too resolved to not be this type of man, and to strive for cordial, rational relations with the opposite sex...and yes I too experienced a disillusionment concerning the supposed innate 'goodness' of Women, but I do not want to make this too long, ...There is indeed a brutal unfairness concerning expectations in our society for males, they are expected to be strong, gentle, protective, steadfast, nurturing and also competitive and aggressive-otherwise they are wimps of course! There are so many stereo-types that we all have to manifest in order to be seen as 'authentic' Men, or Women that we all are brutalized by them- commercial concerns profit by this. In the end it becomes a personal battle, you either 'play along' and adopt a prescribed gender persona, or you become 'Eccentric' and seek to be 'yourself'. I don't think individual men can be expected to feel responsible for the transgressions of society, or the appalling brutality of other men, it is surely a fallacy of thinking to identify the sins of the many with the simple biological state of an individual? I feel sympathy and compassion for many people, but I don't feel guilt because Hitler was a male, and I am also-that is wrong, don't you think? Complex topic this...

[Limor Wolf]

I typed this after reading only Bill's opening post, but after delving into the rest of this thread It is easy to see that all my points are touched already by the various many wonderful and wise comments and member's point of viewes representing their inner world and outer experience.

I will post this nevertheless -


Bill, it is apparent that you love and appreciate women very much. This is a rare characteristic in a human being. There is also this type of balance that you seem to try and bring to a place that is largely biased in one direction. Thank you for doing that.
Not being one to ponder much about men, woman and everything in between, I rarely seem to see the gender segregation between men and women in everyday life when it comes to the more western liberal societies. It is unfortunetly much more evident in countries based on religion or within tribal societies which are based on labour, money and hirarchy. Other than that like with most everything else nowdays and with many other aspects of our life, it is man/woman playing a co-existing part, it is a mutual cooperation in a play of gender where each one is 'requested' to demonstrate certain features and both are fulfilling their own part in this 3D saga play. For every abuser there is a victim. In a way, it is an equal responsibility, not only that of men. It very possibly be quite the opposite of having a true freedom of spirit who can express themselves without limitations one way or another.

There is no denying that there are certain differences between the two physical genders, which is a positive thing, as it is complementing each other. The main real distinction may be that of the vibration of energy itself - the feminine or the masculine, and in the human specie case everyone have both, though, possibly in different quantity. Some woman have more masculine, some men have more feminine and I would like to suggest that it is absolutely fine to have this very special individual mix within men and woman alike which is not binding each gender to behave in any specific way, only to be a lot more in attunment with their spiritual essence, then, there will be no need to balance the existing biases of our society, since true expression really has no gender or physical attributes. It is what it is and if any one energy finds the expression of another energy specifically appealing than that is the true connection that we can all long for and can respect.

We are far from it right now, but it is something that potentially worth to aspire to. There is something good and worthwhile in 'male' energy as well as with the 'faminine' - assertivness and even power is jolly good if they are used in a measured way, being analitical is as important as being intuative and both complete each other and ideally required in the same human being. It is good to be busy as it is good to be calm. Balance and moderation needs to be achived within the individual human being, less I feel related to the gender.

Our journey goes towards the spirit and leaving behind the various expressivness of the flesh, then there will be no necessity in 'compansating' in favor of one over the other, and there will also be no need to protect the 'weak' against the 'strong' when respect prevails over both sorts of energies and the expression of both will cease to be dual but will become a wonderful fusion of the good of both worlds.

Thank you for this thread

[transiten]

Posted by transiten (here)
I'd like to direct your attention to how much of all that is possible to own on planet earth is divided between men and women.....guess guess, google google...think think....

Do you think money is power? Even if extreeeeemly much money doesn't have anthing to do with the love of money, but the love of power and the fear of loosing it and not belong to the group that has "this amount of income" lifestyle and power.

Pple have a need to belong to a group and more often than not stay with a group even if it doesn't reflect their values. F.i it's more important to identify with those who fly o Thailand once a year, than to stay in Sweden and not pollute the environment. This instinct of survival to not be thrown out of the pack supercedes the ethical values.

Some 20 years ago men owned more than 99% of all possible values on earth. That means..well you can count for yourself exactly! I don't know whether it's higher or lower now but probably not more than slightly above or below 99%

I would appreciate if someone would comment on this, that is the fact that men own 99% of all the values on Planet Earth. You don't think it's crucial? I'm from Sweden and this debate was very active in the radical 70:s, then the 80:s came with more ego and individuaism. Not until now it has been reactivated and many young women act as they invented the wheel once again

[minkton]

I'm puzzled in this thread by the idea that mothers need to stop getting their sons circumsised....circumcision was a woman's idea and is perpetrated by women , and it is entirely up to the mother, if her son is circumcised? I had no idea that men had been so excluded from the entire germination of the idea and that fathers had no voice in this ritual for their sons.

Has it always been entirely the mothers decision? Why? What is the rationale there?