Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

[johnf]

Tim, In light of all the discussion of the brain hemispheres, and the tendency
of many around here to see all brain phenomena as a reflection of things going on from elsewhere.
Is there something that seems to arise between embodied human consciousness, and pure awareness,
that has a left and right side?
I recall some mention of teachings for the left, and right sides from the Casteneda books, I don't think
they ever mentioned a pure energetic left and right side, but does one pass through something like that on the way to pure awareness?
I am aware that this would probably be more along the lines of appearance, so the word thing might be taken rather lightly here.

jf

[Shadowman]

Posted by johnf (here)
Tim, In light of all the discussion of the brain hemispheres, and the tendency
of many around here to see all brain phenomena as a reflection of things going on from elsewhere.
Is there something that seems to arise between embodied human consciousness, and pure awareness,
that has a left and right side?
I recall some mention of teachings for the left, and right sides from the Casteneda books, I don't think
they ever mentioned a pure energetic left and right side, but does one pass through something like that on the way to pure awareness?
I am aware that this would probably be more along the lines of appearance, so the word thing might be taken rather lightly here.

jf

Hello johnf,

Not in my experience. While the state of Turiya, or the unidentified witness, preceded the final awakening sometimes referred to as Turiyatita, it was free of dualistic connotations such as the rational and creative hemisphere’s of the brain.

It had a sense of an individual or relative observer, but it was still separate from that which it was a witness to. But no, it couldn’t be described as having a left or right side, or even as a specific form of energy. Spatially it was non local.

Whereas Pure Awareness is more like a singularity where there is no separation between the witness and what is witnessed, or the act of witnessing itself,

Cheers,
tim

[Shadowman]

Posted by justoneman (here)
It is the place one finds oneself once all the programming has slipped away.

There are no authorities much less any other labeled things.

Enlightenment can't be properly described, it can only be pointed to. Just because one or more of us points does not mean any other might ever "see" what is pointed to. Yet once seen... truly seen, it cannot be shaken, it cannot be argued away, it cannot be forgotten. It cannot be deconstructed as it is a whole and in fact, the whole.

All dots connect when enlightened. The dots as well as the connectors all become known as illusory.

Understanding pervades.

Compassion envelopes.

Pointing then becomes all encompassing.... all I ever find myself doing these days as it is tremendously joyful to experience another when the light goes on.

Hi Chester,

Beautifully put. You have resolved perfectly the paradox of the continuing wave, even after it has realized it is none other than the Ocean.

Thankyou for your wonderful contributions to the thread. "Compassion Envelopes", yes, exactly - poetically masterful,

Namaste
tim

[Shadowman]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
I would be careful before claiming to represent what another person is saying, though I don't contest that one might identify with the essence of it.

My point is that when one makes characterizations as such (maturity etc), one is being ineffective toward anyone attempting to understand what you are expressing. Those who have already achieved the state will get it, but there are others to whom you might seem pompous and arrogant. It is a process, and I am familiar with the states that you refer to (though I continue to allude to the idea that there are states beyond such and that the state you describe is more of a pitfall for the unwary); I only allude to the idea that, while appearing to encourage the flowering of such realization you might actually be discouraging it in any other than those in whom it has already flowered and thereby it is useless to (except for individual ego-gratification which is supposed to have been transcended,....).

Humbug.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Courage is required to accept as true what all enlightened have said throughout the ages.

You may call it courage - and it is! - but it also is submitting to authoritarian programming.

IMO, it takes significantly more courage - and no authoritarianism - to contest 'the enlightened' and their multitudes of followers. Edit: That in response to Mooji.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post776632

Hi Shezbeth,

Expressing that which is beyond the mind, using the language of the mind, is bound to cause some difficulties.

Especially so where the recipient takes a skeptical or adversarial stance. Hence the special relationship between the guru and the disciple. When entered into properly, the disciple has understood fully the futility of rationality and logic in approaching the absolute. It is their faith in the guru, as a representation of the absolute, that allows them to transcend rational thought, and in doing so, to experience the death of the subjective object (which is where the courage comes in).

This maturity or understanding is usually preceded by a great deal of reading and research into religious experience or revelation, as the individual seeks to know about God in the same way that they seek knowledge about other phenomena.

Such pursuits may lead to extensive relative knowledge, but do not result in that which was sought for, either consciously or subconsciously. Ultimately what is being sought is not intellectual knowledge or understanding. Many are not even sure exactly what they are seeking, it may be a vague idea/concept ie a feeling of intuitively wishing to return “home”, or something more specific ie Yoga or union or a sense of Oneness with All That Is.

The other aspect of the maturity I referred to is the deepening realization that the nature of the reality you currently find yourself in is ultimately un-fulfilling. The ego promises fulfillment, usually at some point in the future, when you have attained ninja perfection, or landed the perfect partner, etc. however all relative attainments are impermanent. In duality you can’t have the ups without the downs. You cannot avoid suffering. When this has been understood deeply you are in a better position to meet with, and see through, the games/promises/fears projected by the egoic mind to maintain it’s position of power.

As long as you pursue the path of personal power, as long as you strengthen your sense of a relative self by standing alone or in opposition to the whole, the path and techniques prescribed by all awakened ones will seem to be contrary to your goals.

Jesuses admonition to not judge or resist evil, like Sosan’s opening statement in the Hsin Hsin Ming that "the Great Way is not hard for those who have no preferences", are both the means and the Way to fall into alignment with Pure Awareness and Unconditional Love. Awareness does not judge, nor is threatened by, any of the temporary appearances “within” it.

There are no pitfalls or traps for your true Self. It has nothing to fear and nowhere to go....

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post491774

The excellence that you seek as a ninja is nothing more than an illusory mental relative concept. You need not seek perfection, just awaken to the fact that you already are perfect in reality. The identification with a temporary mind/body matrix is just an exploration of limited existence, it is not who you really are.

The techniques offered are not authoritarian programming, quite the opposite in fact. They are designed to free you from the programmed mind and it’s various beliefs and to experience directly what takes place when the mind is rendered quiescent.

Still, you are free to explore “personal power”, and this sandpit we call the world to your heart’s content. And I wish you all the joy and wonder that this great adventure offers.

If you have perceived arrogance where none was intended, know that from my “perspective”, in the only way that matters, we are absolutely equal. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, awakening does not automatically confer mastership ie the ability to communicate it and assist others to awaken. My style is direct and not for everyone.

It is perfectly OK however others choose to perceive what is offered. It is just a direct account using as simple terms as possible to try to clarify what is essentially your natural, eternal, beautiful, blissful Self. And to dispel the unhelpful ideas that it is impossible to realize, or requires miraculous powers to experience directly. You don't need to be rich, or be a prophet, or be a saint - it is open to everyone who seeks to know the truth of who they are above all worldly pursuits.

It is offered with Love and Joy and no expectations. Thanks again though for your comments, any constructive suggestions to improve the method/style of communication are appreciated,

In Lak’ech / Namaste
tim

[Shezbeth]

Posted by tim (here)
Expressing that which is beyond the mind,

Is it really beyond the mind, or is it perceived as being beyond the mind by the mind?

Hence the special relationship between the guru and the disciple. When entered into properly, the disciple has understood fully the futility of rationality and logic in approaching the absolute. It is their faith in the guru, as a representation of the absolute, that allows them to transcend rational thought, and in doing so, to experience the death of the subjective object

Yes! Authoritarianism! The Disciple "properly" submits to the representation of the absolute (as being such is unquestionable at worst or consequentially questionable at best - anyone here ever try questioning the "authority" amidst throngs of adherents?). I mean, it would not be proper to not submit right? Never mind that the Guru in question has voluntarily assumed the mantle (else they would denounce the perception of themselves as a Guru), it would be abject for someone to question it or what they say,.... There's a very lengthy vetting process for Gurus after all, it's a standardized professional term.

"Tow the line and you'll get there too"

What is this, a ponzi scheme?

As long as you pursue the path of personal power, as long as you strengthen your sense of a relative self by standing alone or in opposition to the whole, the path and techniques prescribed by all awakened ones will seem to be contrary to your goals.

One of the key concepts in the path of personal power IS the petty tyrant. Blowhards (the gurus IMO) aren't the finest version, but they will do in a pinch.

The excellence that you seek as a ninja is nothing more than an illusory mental relative concept. You need not seek perfection, just awaken to the fact that you already are perfect in reality. The identification with a temporary mind/body matrix is just an exploration of limited existence, it is not who you really are.

The awareness is perfect, this is true (imo). The mind is faulty (being that it is limited and developing), and the body is unrefined (being that it is in constant ability to achieve higher standards of ability, composition, etc.). If you neglect either the mind or the body in favor of the awareness, you will have stagnancy. True, one can never have a conceptually 'perfect' mind or body, but that does not justify the complacency toward the development/fulfillment of either and moreover hints at the futility of conceptual 'perfection'. I suggest that the sublimity you are expressing/alluding to is as illusory as your perception of my attempt to develop all aspects of myself (mind, body, and awareness). The perceived difference is that at the end of the day my physical is exercised, and my mental is made less obstructed; to the best of my ability, both consciously and unconsciously.

Besides, the body is most convincingly finite. Are you suggesting that one dismiss their identification with the body on these grounds, because it sounds to me like finity is grounds to conducively invest more in identification. Life would not be precious if it were NOT finite.

it is open to everyone who seeks to know the truth of who they are above all worldly pursuits.

Again assumptions! You assume (perceive) that the path you speak of and the direction it leads is one of truth! You assume that what you find is above all worldly pursuits! Am I then conversing with pure awareness, or is it possible that I am conversing with a mind that has been seduced by the idea that it IS pure awareness? Am I conversing with an omniscient entity, or is the entity who's discourse I am THOROUGHLY enjoying one that has more to learn?

Learning is in the mind.

"You think you know, but really you have no idea" - E 40

[greybeard]

The Guru serves the student, not the other way around.
The teacher and the taught are the same.
For myself I questioned and cross referenced every teaching from every teacher I chose to learn from.
For me the teacher is not that important though he or she is appreciated, its the teaching I endeavour to follow, not the finger pointing.

Chris

[Shadowman]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)

Posted by tim (here)
Expressing that which is beyond the mind,

Is it really beyond the mind, or is it perceived as being beyond the mind by the mind?

Hence the special relationship between the guru and the disciple. When entered into properly, the disciple has understood fully the futility of rationality and logic in approaching the absolute. It is their faith in the guru, as a representation of the absolute, that allows them to transcend rational thought, and in doing so, to experience the death of the subjective object

Yes! Authoritarianism! The Disciple "properly" submits to the representation of the absolute (as being such is unquestionable at worst or consequentially questionable at best - anyone here ever try questioning the "authority" amidst throngs of adherents?). I mean, it would not be proper to not submit right? Never mind that the Guru in question has voluntarily assumed the mantle (else they would denounce the perception of themselves as a Guru), it would be abject for someone to question it or what they say,.... There's a very lengthy vetting process for Gurus after all, it's a standardized professional term.

"Tow the line and you'll get there too"

What is this, a ponzi scheme?

As long as you pursue the path of personal power, as long as you strengthen your sense of a relative self by standing alone or in opposition to the whole, the path and techniques prescribed by all awakened ones will seem to be contrary to your goals.

One of the key concepts in the path of personal power IS the petty tyrant. Blowhards (the gurus IMO) aren't the finest version, but they will do in a pinch.

The excellence that you seek as a ninja is nothing more than an illusory mental relative concept. You need not seek perfection, just awaken to the fact that you already are perfect in reality. The identification with a temporary mind/body matrix is just an exploration of limited existence, it is not who you really are.

The awareness is perfect, this is true (imo). The mind is faulty (being that it is limited and developing), and the body is unrefined (being that it is in constant ability to achieve higher standards of ability, composition, etc.). If you neglect either the mind or the body in favor of the awareness, you will have stagnancy. True, one can never have a conceptually 'perfect' mind or body, but that does not justify the complacency toward the development/fulfillment of either and moreover hints at the futility of conceptual 'perfection'. I suggest that the sublimity you are expressing/alluding to is as illusory as your perception of my attempt to develop all aspects of myself (mind, body, and awareness). The perceived difference is that at the end of the day my physical is exercised, and my mental is made less obstructed; to the best of my ability, both consciously and unconsciously.

Besides, the body is most convincingly finite. Are you suggesting that one dismiss their identification with the body on these grounds, because it sounds to me like finity is grounds to conducively invest more in identification. Life would not be precious if it were NOT finite.

it is open to everyone who seeks to know the truth of who they are above all worldly pursuits.

Again assumptions! You assume (perceive) that the path you speak of and the direction it leads is one of truth! You assume that what you find is above all worldly pursuits! Am I then conversing with pure awareness, or is it possible that I am conversing with a mind that has been seduced by the idea that it IS pure awareness? Am I conversing with an omniscient entity, or is the entity who's discourse I am THOROUGHLY enjoying one that has more to learn?

Learning is in the mind.

"You think you know, but really you have no idea" - E 40

Hello Shezbeth,

You are being offered the means by which you may find out for yourself whether Self Realization is a perception, a belief, a projection of the mind or something else entirely. Have you ever explored Vipassana, Vichara or Zazen?

Whether you explore any of the techniques suggested, with or without a guru, is entirely up to you. The responsibility is yours and yours alone. All that prevents you are a few misguided ideas, such as actually believing you have something real to submit, or something real to lose.

The truth of who you are is the absolute truth, whereas assumptions and worldly pursuits are relative phenomena. I am not assuming the truth of Realization, it has been realized directly. Only you can prove or disprove this for yourself, not by knowing intellectually, but by spiritual awakening or gnosis. An examination of the links in the OP will give a fuller picture of this awakening, which goes by many names.

From the absolute perspective you are not conversing with Pure Awareness. Pure Awareness can only appear to be separated in a distorted reflection ie in the mind. It takes two to converse. In reality no separation has ever occurred. This is the sound of one hand clapping.

Your subjective object construct, or ego, is assuming an existence separate from the whole which is in fact an illusion. You have taken for granted that this illusory thinking I is real. If you Investigate whether this I is real you may ultimately find it is actually just a tale told by an idiot...signifying nothing,

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury
Signifying nothing. - Shakespeare

Namaste/ With Love
tim

[Tony]

Residue… not me.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RDXSnFd_gvQ

Tony

[greybeard]

Even without enlightenment following the advice of the enlightened brings much freedom in this world.
I can only speak from experience.
The mind which was troublesome has quietened down.
Fear has gone.
There is an ease and peace in situations which before would have been found difficult and stressful.
Sleep comes easy.
There is no longer a need to be right or to prove anything.
Things get done with out forcing or the need for perfection or outcome to be as desired.
In fact there is no driven action.
Life is full, fresh, enjoyed.
Anything which does not really suit is accepted.
There are preferences but not --got to have.
Life is much easier now.
If this is as good as it gets, that's ok.
Well worth the "work" that has been done.
Chris

[Shezbeth]

Posted by tim (here)
You are being offered the means by which you may find out for yourself whether Self Realization is a perception, a belief, a projection of the mind or something else entirely.

Can't it be all of the above?

All that prevents you are a few misguided ideas, such as actually believing you have something real to submit, or something real to lose.

That is certainly one way of perceiving things, but disagreement is not synonymous with being misguided outside your perspective. That which is submitted is no more or less real than this holographic 3-dimensional world for example, but this holographic 3-dimensional world is still lived in with it's "physical" laws, it's causes and effects.

From the absolute perspective you are not conversing with Pure Awareness. Pure Awareness can only appear to be separated in a distorted reflection ie in the mind. It takes two to converse. In reality no separation has ever occurred. This is the sound of one hand clapping.

Your subjective object construct, or ego, is assuming an existence separate from the whole which is in fact an illusion. You have taken for granted that this illusory thinking I is real. If you Investigate whether this I is real you may ultimately find it is actually just a tale told by an idiot...signifying nothing,

Agreed! On the one hand there is the singularity (call it what you will). On the other hand, there is everything else, including but not limited to this discourse and the individual parties involved.

Are you denying that this discourse is taking place? These illusory bodies, minds, egos, etc. type away at illusory computers and such, expressing illusory opinions formulated in illusory minds. And yet, whether illusory or not the mind is perceivable; The illusory body is likewise. Whether told by an "idiot", the idiot has a point. I challenge you to continue this discourse without using anything illusory (mind, body, etc.).

But here's one for you! Refer to the earlier TED video with the Neurologist and her left/right brain experience. The suggestion is made that the state of quiescence is still within the mind.

Edit: I'm fond of the Japanese term "Gambatte". It has no literal english equivalent, but can mean anything from "Do your best" to "Meet the challenge" and well beyond "Victory" et al. It assumes an endemic existence, equal parts conflict and unity.

Of course there is the perception/recognition/experience/memory(?) of all-inclusive one-ness beyond all limitation; That which is true, infinite, eternal, and most wise, etc. I'm suggesting that that whatever it is (experience, thing, etc. which can be perceived at any time once one re-conceives it) is only one pole on a scale of extance for which the entity is responsible for the entirety of.

By entity I am referring to the physical body experienced, the mind(s) so interconnected, and universal awareness; The symbiotic, synergistic, alchemical amalgamation of all individual parts.

[Shadowman]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)

Posted by tim (here)
You are being offered the means by which you may find out for yourself whether Self Realization is a perception, a belief, a projection of the mind or something else entirely.

Can't it be all of the above?

All that prevents you are a few misguided ideas, such as actually believing you have something real to submit, or something real to lose.

That is certainly one way of perceiving things, but disagreement is not synonymous with being misguided outside your perspective. That which is submitted is no more or less real than this holographic 3-dimensional world for example, but this holographic 3-dimensional world is still lived in with it's "physical" laws, it's causes and effects.

From the absolute perspective you are not conversing with Pure Awareness. Pure Awareness can only appear to be separated in a distorted reflection ie in the mind. It takes two to converse. In reality no separation has ever occurred. This is the sound of one hand clapping.

Your subjective object construct, or ego, is assuming an existence separate from the whole which is in fact an illusion. You have taken for granted that this illusory thinking I is real. If you Investigate whether this I is real you may ultimately find it is actually just a tale told by an idiot...signifying nothing,

Agreed! On the one hand there is the singularity (call it what you will). On the other hand, there is everything else, including but not limited to this discourse and the individual parties involved.

Are you denying that this discourse is taking place? These illusory bodies, minds, egos, etc. type away at illusory computers and such, expressing illusory opinions formulated in illusory minds. And yet, whether illusory or not the mind is perceivable; The illusory body is likewise. Whether told by an "idiot", the idiot has a point. I challenge you to continue this discourse without using anything illusory (mind, body, etc.).

But here's one for you! Refer to the earlier TED video with the Neurologist and her left/right brain experience. The suggestion is made that the state of quiescence is still within the mind.

Edit: I'm fond of the Japanese term "Gambatte". It has no literal english equivalent, but can mean anything from "Do your best" to "Meet the challenge" and well beyond "Victory" et al. It assumes an endemic existence, equal parts conflict and unity.

Of course there is the perception/recognition/experience/memory(?) of all-inclusive one-ness beyond all limitation; That which is true, infinite, eternal, and most wise, etc. I'm suggesting that that whatever it is (experience, thing, etc. which can be perceived at any time once one re-conceives it) is only one pole on a scale of extance for which the entity is responsible for the entirety of.

By entity I am referring to the physical body experienced, the mind(s) so interconnected, and universal awareness; The symbiotic, synergistic, alchemical amalgamation of all individual parts.

Hello Shezbeth,

The following posts address the issues referred to above. Identified as you are with the dualistic mind, you continue to confuse the unreal and impermanent ie concepts, beliefs, memories, mental projections, relative perceptions, bodies and mind's; with the eternal substrate reality in which they appear. Whether you agree or disagree (functions of the dualistic mind), is irrelevant to Awareness/Realization.

You challenge me to continue this discourse without using an illusory body/mind. The paradox is that in reality no body/mind has been used...

"The more you talk and think about it, the further astray you wander from the truth.
Stop talking and thinking, and there is nothing you will not be able to know." - Sosan

"One who can see that all activities are performed by the body, which is created of material nature, and sees that the Self does nothing, actually sees." - Bhagavad Gita 13:30

"You do not believe me when I tell you about the things of this world; how will you ever believe me, then, when I tell you about the things of heaven?" - John 3:12

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post483135

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post481460

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post472609

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo

Have you ever explored Vipassana, Vichara or Zazen? Did you examine the links in the OP?

With Love / In Lak'ech
tim

[Shezbeth]

Dualistic? There's far more than two aspects you'll be surprised to discover. Someday.

But not today (not from me anyhow). This exercise has played its self out, and I tire of the authoritarian rhetoric; That it is presented as being otherwise belies innocence, ignorance, or duplicity.

That fuzzy feeling one gets? Endorphins. Everything else is a psychological desire to legitimize the experience of endorphins, and any conclusions which generate them. From this experience a hierarchy of thought/individuals formulates (depending on if it is one person experiencing or if there is a group). But don't take my word for it. Besides, that is just one level of the equation.

Those who are want to express responsibility in all things shall do so, and those who wish to do less shall likewise for ever-infinite reasons. It matters not what anyone calls themselves - literally or implicitly - but woe to those who seek titles and identifications.

The end of every pursuit - whether real, "real", or unreal - is the beginning of another, every thing or no thing followed by the next. Why is irrelevant, and the truth does not need to be advertized.

"Before enlightenment one should chop wood and tend the fields. After enlightenment one should chop wood and tend the fields." - Paraphrase of Buddhist Proverb

[GarethBKK]

Enjoyed the rhetoric. But, ultimately...

"To one who knows nothing, It is clearly revealed."

Thus, I revel in knowing nothing. I just keep asking who has the feeling of being 'fuzzy' on endorphins. Is it merely a thought coming from mind? Who is that observing the thoughts of mind? Who is measuring 'fuzziness' against the backdrop of no fuzziness? Who am I? I don't know, but I keep on asking until I become adept at two-way looking. Looking at the Beautiful dance between the no-thing in and the every-thing out.

[Shadowman]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Dualistic? There's far more than two aspects you'll be surprised to discover. Someday.

To a ninja there are only two things:
The Ninja, which includes all physiological attributes and characteristics that are under the direct or implicit control of said entity (body, limbs, senses, etc.),
and
The Universe, which encompasses every observable phenomenon outside the direct volition/involvement of the Ninja.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
But not today (not from me anyhow). This exercise has played its self out, and I tire of the authoritarian rhetoric; That it is presented as being otherwise belies innocence, ignorance, or duplicity.

Or arrogance, or pomposity, or just plain nuts... but you’re right, our exchange has become far too serious, what’s the point of enlightenment if you can’t lighten up...

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
That fuzzy feeling one gets? Endorphins. Everything else is a psychological desire to legitimize the experience of endorphins, and any conclusions which generate them. From this experience a hierarchy of thought/individuals formulates (depending on if it is one person experiencing or if there is a group). But don't take my word for it. Besides, that is just one level of the equation.

Endorphins? I thought that fuzzy feeling was the cat napping on my lap, and I’ll be darned if I’m going to legitimize the cat, it already treats me like a staff member.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
Those who are want to express responsibility in all things shall do so, and those who wish to do less shall likewise for ever-infinite reasons. It matters not what anyone calls themselves - literally or implicitly - but woe to those who seek titles and identifications.

I am the greatest, most mystical and metaphysical wolf ninja that THIS world has seen in a REALLY long time! The grand-celestial Coyote shaman for whom the seas of awareness do part GLADLY! I have many names, but those who know me best call me FA-san!

Says it all, really. (Thirty years ago I became a wolf, although it was after consuming a bottle of vodka, so not sure if that counts...)

Edit 30/12/13: Shezbeth has advised me that this self description was intentionally ridiculous and not meant to be taken seriously, so clearly not only was he not seeking titles or identifications, but also has an exquisite sense of humour. Such are the perils and misunderstandings of the written word. I trust the intended satire caused no offense.

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
The end of every pursuit - whether real, "real", or unreal - is the beginning of another, every thing or no thing followed by the next. Why is irrelevant, and the truth does not need to be advertized.

Zen is selling water by the river. Perhaps if I put a big enough advertising sign it will block the view of the river. If the fools don't realize they already have all the water they need for free, I can really shift some merchandise. Thanks for the tip, .

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
"Before enlightenment one should chop wood and tend the fields. After enlightenment one should chop wood and tend the fields." - Paraphrase of Buddhist Proverb

It happened: a Zen Master was chopping wood. A man had come to enquire. He had heard the name of the Zen Master. It had been a long journey to come to the mountains where the Master lived with his disciples. He asked this woodcutter – because he could not think that the Master would be chopping wood – he asked this woodcutter,
”I have heard about a great Zen Master who is enlightened. Where is he?”
And the Master said, ”Look at me! I am that!”
The seeker thought this man to be mad. Still, to be polite with him – and it is better to be polite with a madman.... And he had a great axe in his hand, and who knows? And he looked so ferocious....
And he said, ”I am that! What do you want?”
He said, ”So you are that great Master. What did you do before your enlightenment?”
He said, ”I used to chop wood and carry water from the well.”
”And now what do you do?”
He said, ”I chop wood and carry water from the well.”
And the man said, ”Then what is the difference? Then what is the point of your enlightenment if you still chop wood and carry the water from the well?”
And the Master laughed... and the mountains must have laughed with him, and the trees. It is said that around that monastery, still, after thousands of years, sometimes that laughter is heard. He laughed and said,
”You fool! Before enlightenment I used to chop wood, I used to carry water. Now water is carried, wood is chopped. I am not the doer; that is the difference.”

A simple yet profound distinction, yes?

With Love and Laughter
tim

[Shadowman]

Posted by GarethBKK (here)
Enjoyed the rhetoric. But, ultimately...

"To one who knows nothing, It is clearly revealed."

Thus, I revel in knowing nothing. I just keep asking who has the feeling of being 'fuzzy' on endorphins. Is it merely a thought coming from mind? Who is that observing the thoughts of mind? Who is measuring 'fuzziness' against the backdrop of no fuzziness? Who am I? I don't know, but I keep on asking until I become adept at two-way looking. Looking at the Beautiful dance between the no-thing in and the every-thing out.

Hello GarethBKK,

Exactly. Thankyou. Elegant simplicity.

When you are deluded and full of doubt, even a thousand books of scripture are not enough. When you have realized understanding, even one word is too much. - Fen Yang

Namaste
tim

[Chester]

Posted by tim (here)
Another thing that you notice as your energy increases is synchronicities or meaningful coincidences. For instance within 15 mins of your post your dilemma was responded to by the Totality via Chris in post 38. Chris pointed out succinctly your solution, which I have put somewhat more verbosely above, lol. (love your work Chris )

I am an odds maker by trade. For me to get and keep my job - the job that pays my bills, I must consistently produce prices for propositions such that someone who wants to bet any of the selections within the proposition loses more than they win. This means I have to be pretty good at assessing the value of the relevant factors that determine outcomes. This means I better be reasonably decent with probability. Because I have to be pretty good at assessing outcome probabilities, it would seem I may also possess the ability to spot "coincidences" that suggest there is far more to the generation of the various coinciding events than may fall within the realistic odds.

One of the talents required of a decent odds maker is having the ability to spot correlations.

What I found is that as I have journeyed the process of awakening I discovered a clear and obvious increase in "synchronicity" experiences.

This morning I set forth to write about one. Yet I also have been in process of reading all the posts in this thread. I go from one thing to another on a whim - such is my life now. Strangely I came upon post #44 and BAM, there was Tim stating his experience of a rise in synchronicity experiences in relation to his awaking. That is evidence. It feels good not to be alone.

And now the story.

About a month ago I woke up one morning with the strangest feeling to draw it all up. Another mind exercise that certainly was nothing new to others but one thing new came to me. I drew the following -



Notice the top of the page I wrote above the above.

Later that same day I had lunch with my son who is 19. I expressed to him that I felt there was a "stateless state" prior to the causal. I told him I had never heard of that before. I told him it can only be described as such from within the relative world. I told him that "from this place" no concepts, forms can be perceived.

That evening I came home and got on this forum. I went to greybeard's thread regarding transcending the ego. I discovered this thread and even posted about it asking how come I had not seen it before? I was told it had just been made a "sticky."

As I read the OP, I saw the list of links that explained more. One of the links immediately stuck out to me because there's a poster here who had taken this poster name - Turiya.

I had not even carefully read the OP but I had to see what this term might mean so I could understand why this poster took the name.

and low and behold - Turiya is the word for what I had come to me that morning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya

It is the background that underlies and transcends the three common states of consciousness of waking consciousness, dreaming, and dreamless sleep.

So now what are the odds?

What are the odds I have this... meditative experience - that I was so caught up with I shared with my son - that I come home and it just so happens that this thread was made a sticky which, when I saw the thread author I had to open - that I saw it was a lengthy OP which I felt I would be better off reading when I had settled down to focus - yet I happen to see Turiya in a list of links - that my curiosity to look at what Turiya was because I was curious why a poster had taken that name - and that Turiya turns out to be precisely what randomly came to me that very morning? The probability of all this is one in godzillion.

And this happens allllll the time now. It is like the Universe is thanking me with constant confirmations that I recognize it is all one eternal being and the "I," Chester, is just one of infinite expressions of this very Being.

How could I possibly ever fear "end?" How could death be real?

All the fears melt away.

This has taken hold and at least in this one of infinite conscious experiences, I am certain will never be forgotten. Can't make odds when one of the selections is 100%.

What peace...

I added this to my silly drawing after I made the discovery.

[Shadowman]

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by tim (here)
Another thing that you notice as your energy increases is synchronicities or meaningful coincidences. For instance within 15 mins of your post your dilemma was responded to by the Totality via Chris in post 38. Chris pointed out succinctly your solution, which I have put somewhat more verbosely above, lol. (love your work Chris )

I am an odds maker by trade. For me to get and keep my job - the job that pays my bills, I must consistently produce prices for propositions such that someone who wants to bet any of the selections within the proposition loses more than they win. This means I have to be pretty good at assessing the value of the relevant factors that determine outcomes. This means I better be reasonably decent with probability. Because I have to be pretty good at assessing outcome probabilities, it would seem I may also possess the ability to spot "coincidences" that suggest there is far more to the generation of the various coinciding events than may fall within the realistic odds.

One of the talents required of a decent odds maker is having the ability to spot correlations.

What I found is that as I have journeyed the process of awakening I discovered a clear and obvious increase in "synchronicity" experiences.

This morning I set forth to write about one. Yet I also have been in process of reading all the posts in this thread. I go from one thing to another on a whim - such is my life now. Strangely I came upon post #44 and BAM, there was Tim stating his experience of a rise in synchronicity experiences in relation to his awaking. That is evidence. It feels good not to be alone.

And now the story.

About a month ago I woke up one morning with the strangest feeling to draw it all up. Another mind exercise that certainly was nothing new to others but one thing new came to me. I drew the following -

Attachment 24313

Notice the top of the page I wrote above the above.

Later that same day I had lunch with my son who is 19. I expressed to him that I felt there was a "stateless state" prior to the causal. I told him I had never heard of that before. I told him it can only be described as such from within the relative world. I told him that "from this place" no concepts, forms can be perceived.

That evening I came home and got on this forum. I went to greybeard's thread regarding transcending the ego. I discovered this thread and even posted about it asking how come I had not seen it before? I was told it had just been made a "sticky."

As I read the OP, I saw the list of links that explained more. One of the links immediately stuck out to me because there's a poster here who had taken this poster name - Turiya.

I had not even carefully read the OP but I had to see what this term might mean so I could understand why this poster took the name.

and low and behold - Turiya is the word for what I had come to me that morning.

So now what are the odds?

What are the odds I have this... meditative experience - that I was so caught up with I shared with my son - that I come home and it just so happens that this thread was made a sticky which, when I saw the thread author I had to open - that I saw it was a lengthy OP which I felt I would be better off reading when I had settled down to focus - yet I happen to see Turiya in a list of links - that my curiosity to look at what Turiya was because I was curious why a poster had taken that name - and that Turiya turns out to be precisely what randomly came to me that very morning? The probability of all this is one in godzillion.

And this happens allllll the time now. It is like the Universe is thanking me with constant confirmations that I recognize it it is all one eternal being and the "I," Chester, is just one of infinite expressions of this very Being.

How could I possibly ever fear "end?" How could death be real?

All the fears melt away.

This has taken hold and at least in this one of infinite conscious experiences, I am certain will never be forgotten. Can't make odds when one of the selections is 100%.

What peace...

I added this to my silly drawing after I made the discovery.

Attachment 24315

Hello Chester,

What Peace indeed, eh.

I know I posted these on another thread, but they are relevant to Turiya and Sunyata. The vids are hilarious and priceless...

Welcome to the club, or as the elder Spock would say - "technically you are on the inside now".

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. - Luke 17:21

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post758436

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post758615

Shalom / In Lak'ech
tim

Shalom is a rich term which means more than peace as absence of war or inner turmoil. According to Strong’s Concordance, the Hebrew word Shalom means completeness, wholeness, health, peace, welfare, safety, soundness, tranquility, prosperity, perfectness, fullness, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord. Shalom comes from a root verb meaning to be complete, perfect and full. So it is a kind of fullness of life, both materially and spiritually, in relations with God and man, that is expressed here.

From here,

http://wordincarnate.wordpress.com/2...e-be-with-you/

[Shezbeth]

Posted by tim (here)
Shezbeth has advised me that this self description was intentionally ridiculous and not meant to be taken seriously, so clearly not only was he not seeking titles or identifications, but also has an exquisite sense of humour.

Thank you for the derisive introduction.

I never said any of it was not to be taken seriously, I said it was intentionally impossible, over-the-top, and ridiculous.

Impossible because they contradict/conflict with the consistently observable phenomena (laws) of the 3-dimensional reality our bodies inhabit, Over-The-Top and Ridiculous because they are observations others have bestowed upon me - I didn't initially say it or choose to be referred to as such - but they seem rightly ridiculous when strung together so. Ultimately everything is ridiculous - myself included - and I would prefer that be the side I expose to people looking to learn more about me. There are those however to whom such originating circumstances are a very serious matter, myself included.

Everything contained in my description refers to actual phenomena that was at the time - and in some cases continues to be - of great significance to myself and those in participation. They are not titles, they are a litany of deeds alluding to shared experience which is uncontestable to those witness of and involving perception/realization/comprehension/redirection unattributable to books, media, experience, or other form of input perceivable.

Carry on with your descriptions of enlightenment.

[Chester]

It seems to boil down to form "winning out" with respect to there being a "right" point of view. I would make odds that until one rests in Turiyatita, form always has its claws imbedded in one's psyche.

Today I experienced (again) confirmation I no longer am stuck in form yet can "play" like a child in the illusory realms of form. Of course, to say this comes from the world of form. Who could I be speaking to? Couldn't be "those trapped in that view... no, no no."

Today I discovered by way of a fellow co-worker that one of my employers who happens to owe me thousands in back pay is taking his family on vacation to Mexico for a week.

The "actor" emerged. I became "outraged." I became "indignant." I ranted and raved to my co-worker friend, "this is it!" "How can I respect myself when I allow this jerk to continue to use and abuse me like this?!!"

Yet, while I was "performing," I felt so strangely detached. Yes... very true. I saw myself "acting." I could roar like a lion and my co-worker friend started to beg me not to leave (as he knows the load that would fall upon his shoulders)... but he couldn't see it was all just an act. So very strange is life now.

There was no fear, there was no real anger, there was no ego that was bruised and I can say this because as the event was unfolding, I was laughing... yes, laughing at it all. Like watching a play and yet you are in the play and you are directing the play and you have written the story the play is based on.

Apologies for the rambling post... my intention was simply to share how approaching enlightenment might be like.

Its all just fun now... strangely fun...

[greybeard]

Nasardadatta was some what fiery,he could get annoyed then laughing next minute.
Dr Hawkins said that aspiring to be a Saint is a different path from enlightenment, though their are enlightened Saints,
People expect the enlightened to be extraordinary,emitting love all the time, but it seems they are more ordinary than the "others"
As far as showing one emotion while being calm inside that can be part of the process, Adyashanti said he can have a point of view but there is no emotion behind it. "There is no belief that the point of view is right or wrong"
Im almost there with that. I dont have to be right but I prefer to be.

Ramesh was a joker and after a day of losing at the races said "What's the point of being enlightened if you cant pick a winning horse?"
He also said "If you have the choice of a £million or enlightenment, take the money for if you choose enlightenment there is no one there to enjoy it"
He was Banker to trade, though retired.

Chris