The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[Joe Akulis]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Actually we aren't some kind of remote outpost of Life because we are here in the one of the densest locations/conditions in the universe. We're at the cutting edge of many things. Somehow we're transforming the world of physical matter into something that very, very very slowly will turn into a part of Source. Once that happens, this will presumably be the most exciting place/condition of all. It will combine the general and even the universal with the specific in the most exhilarating and powerful way, with everything somehow transformed into pure Spirit.

Beautiful words, TH. You echo my hopes for this place. There is such potential here. Individuality, if protected somehow from this tendency to lose touch with our true selves, and with our creator, can be a very addictive way to express ourselves and to interact, and to share.

But there is quite a bit of maturity to be achieved yet, in my opinion. Not enough people in my part of the world are even aware yet that there is a conversation about ego that needs to happen. What is it. How does it rule us. How to recognize and move away from its influence. It's not enough to be someone who wants to "avoid drama" if you don't have a decent understanding of ego, in my opinion. But not many people on this continent seem to be giving any thought to things like this yet. And until we do, the rest of the fruits of this potential paradise here would simply be misused, or misdirected.

After that, I think people need to have a conversation about what true freedom means. But if we haven't made those strides toward management of ego, and towards finding the inner peace that you spoke of above, then talk of real freedom would not bring us to its full understanding.

I have a feeling that many other regions of the world are moving in this direction a lot better than mine right now, but it is still enjoyable to be along for the ride here, and to consciously observe our progress and to help when I can.

Much love to you all,
Seeker

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by seeker1972 (here)
there is quite a bit of maturity to be achieved yet, in my opinion. Not enough people in my part of the world are even aware yet that there is a conversation about ego that needs to happen. What is it. How does it rule us. How to recognize and move away from its influence. It's not enough to be someone who wants to "avoid drama" if you don't have a decent understanding of ego, in my opinion. But not many people on this continent seem to be giving any thought to things like this yet. And until we do, the rest of the fruits of this potential paradise here would simply be misused, or misdirected.

After that, I think people need to have a conversation about what true freedom means. But if we haven't made those strides toward management of ego, and towards finding the inner peace that you spoke of above, then talk of real freedom would not bring us to its full understanding.

I have a feeling that many other regions of the world are moving in this direction a lot better than mine right now, but it is still enjoyable to be along for the ride here, and to consciously observe our progress and to help when I can.

I would say it's a matter of us behaving much more sanely, and then others around us will automatically be influenced to want to transform their ego. Others know deep inside that most of the time they've lost touch with the truer them, which is the HM. That's why they behave not as their true selves but instead they're insecure, frustrated, lonely, defensive, and feeling unloved inside, or unfairly done by. All that (emotional) suffering in their life is just the very, very, very slow and gradual falling away of their escapism -- of their becoming conscious that there is no escape other than to face ordinary life and live it consciously and even love it. It's simple if one can surrender to that, but granted, most people don't -- which means they're doing it the hard way, the very gradual way.

It's amazing how much we influence others around us by our example, even if they may not always show any sign that they've been influenced. I'd say the ego needs to be transformed rather than "killed".

Also, the root of the ego is fear. It's not natural to have continual fear, or much fear at all. I don't mean we have to prove we're fearless by doing stunts like Evil Knevil, or anything like that, but quietly, naturally. To get rid of fear, you need to stop being addicted to excitement. Deeper joy comes out of the Stillness.

[TraineeHuman]

Libico sent me a PM that raises an important issue about astral projection:

I've been having a period of clear dreams lately and have reached the vibrational state a few times over the past weeks, including a minor OBE. I find something very strange though, and would appreciate any insight you could give me on this. If you recall, early on the OBE thread I posted regarding a recurring pain in my lower back I've been having since very early childhood (https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post591147) that has never really stopped.

Over the past week I've had a few very vivid dreams lately which I started recording, but my latest dream started as an OBE attempt, which lead to a vivid dream, 3:30 wake up and recording, and upon returning to sleep I had another vivid dream of which I had very clear recollection. Both dreams started very negative, but I did end up turning them into a positive experience. This OBE attempt started with me lying down on my back in bed and feeling the onset of strong vibrations. I was able to see my bedroom, but not detach (something that has always been problematic when trying to transition when not in a lucid dream). During this experience when trying to detach I felt the Zuul presence (nothing visual) and very strong pain in my back. I tried to accept the pain as part of me, to allow it take over me without any sort of resistance so as to merge and become one with it, and a few other methods I can't recall, but the pain eventually woke me out of the vibrational state. This has happened at least 5-10 times when trying to go OBE, although there have been a few times within dreams where I have succeeded to push aside the pain and have a successful OBE.

This event had me puzzled, and the following night when lying down and still very much awake; I consciously thought of Zuul - I realize this is just a label but it's how I refer to the source of the pain since childhood. Something even more strange happened and while keeping my focus strongly on this I felt subtle energy (as best as I can describe) on my lower back - it wasn't painful but it was definitely noticeable and I kept my focus strong on Zuul to observe and study this. It seemed to me that I have become sensitive to what my astral body would experience, but since my physical body is at a lower vibrational rate it seems to have been dulled - it's possible that since I was about to go to sleep the veil was thin enough for me to feel something. To be clear, I don't fear this experience when awake nor when I am directly experiencing it (in childhood I would wake up from fear to escape), but I am wondering why I am not able to confront and overcome this recurring situation. I've tried fighting it, taunting it, showing love, acceptance, etc; nothing seems to work. This latest attempt at merging was a first, but I do think I held back a tiny back due to a tiny bit of apprehension there.

Another interesting recent event, I recently met a like-minded individual in my country who I connected with, and who happens to be a certified QHHT practitioner. I decided to undergo a session and one of the my questions to my HM was regarding this Zuul experience. The answer I got back was that it was my ego manifesting and holding me back.

Back in the thread you wrote this may be due to cording which is a real possibility, but whatever the source of this is, I would appreciate any insight you could give on what I can do to stop this from recurring. Also, the fact that I felt a muffled version of this while awake is amazing! Have you had or know of similar experiences?

I'm aware that many people experience some pain when they begin astral projection, even though I never have myself. I'm not referring to the energized feeling in the chest, nor the brief nausea experienced in the stomach. Nor even the experience of sleep paralysis, which itself can often be a little uncomfortable if not slightly painful. Actually, we go through sleep paralysis briefly every time, on the way out of the physical body and then on the way back in.

In a nutshell, I believe the pain you're talking about, Libico, is primarily to do with not separating the astral body and the physical body fully from each other. Secondarily, the pain is caused by the projector not being highly enough energised, or by trying to "jump out" too quickly or in too much of a forced way or too hurriedly. By far the best antidote I know of is to become more proficient at meditation first. The second best antidote is to become more proficient at healing your self prior to starting any OB travel. I also agree that your problem can be partly described as part of the ego's resistance, as your QH therapist said.

Think of it this way. To astral project well, you need to be able to really, truly let your physical body go, and to let it sleep. Just let it totally sleep. That's simple enough. Don't try to fiddle with it or unhitch from it. You have to (almost entirely) forget it and let it be and not try to know how it is. The challenge is to truly be "just a mind/consciousness" that's disembodied. I appreciate you've done a lot of astral projection, Libico, but have you fully learnt this particular basic? Secondly, your mind and consciousness are being stretched, having their horizons broadened, if you are learning this newish skill of astral projection, or learning it more. Partly the pain is the ordinary mind's kickback against venturing into newer territory -- a type of growing pain.

I have plenty more to say about this, and will do so in my next post. I'm busy at my place of my work at present doing extra hours, but will have more comments in a few days.

[Libico]

Thanks TH - looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

Do you think that this pain could be present from such an early age if it is related to detaching or jumping out? Like I said it's been present for since I was 3 or 4, and once I got over the nightmare fears, I would say it would be recurring in dreams maybe once per month on average. I have had a few isolated occurrences of sleep paralysis combined with this during my life, but since actively studying and practicing OBE it has happened more often during the pre-sleep phase, although also in dreams. Out of the past 5 or so attempts to go OBE during my dream state, each time it has manifested out of nowhere (without the usual trigger to cause it to appear) with about a 50/50 rate of OBE success.

I tried again last night while lying down to bed to actively focus on this and again felt something in my lower back, although without anything else significant happening. I think I will try focusing on this during meditation (after grounding myself) tonight as I feel like I am at the cusp of breaking through on this issue.

[TraineeHuman]

As usual, Libico, you raise something which is difficult to respond to in just one post, even a long one. In this post I'd like to begin by sharing some quite unusual phenomena in my own experience which may possibly, in a certain sense, have some similarity to yours, before I go on to other issues in a later post.

One thing I have experienced was that from between the ages of five and fifteen -- mostly throughout that whole period -- I experienced certain pains or weaknesses in certain specific locations of my body which exactly corresponded to the locations where I have minor or major health issues today, a little over a month before I turn sixty-four. At fifteen I developed cancer and then healed myself of it. Two weeks ago I again experienced cancer at the exact same location and again completely healed myself of it, though that only took several days to do this time around. Obviously, this phenomenon is some kind of very clear message that my HM set up -- exposing me in advance, during my childhood, to apparently all the health issues that would come up in older age, or old age. It's also significant because what happened at age fifteen was that I found myself having to face death full on. What that triggered was my first enlightenment experience -- the discovery that I was really the universe and Source. I take it my recent "take two" of cancer was a synchronous message that it's time to start seriously considering retirement from full-time work as a real option, and to make sure it can be a wonderful and transforming rebirth of some kind. Incidentally, my father had ten brothers and one sister and he died at 47, which was still older than any of his siblings except one who reached 50 and one who got to their early 50s. So I have some terrible genes healthwise, from that side of the family. Thank goodness I'm a natural psychic healer, because otherwise you probably wouldn't be reading these words today.

Incidentally, I additionally had a certain physical pain for many years which belonged to a hitchhiker. That pain would actually get much, much worse whenever I went astral traveling at twenty-six -- until I got rid of that hitchhiker. The hitchhiker wasn't human but had been a member of an intelligent species on this planet millions of years ago, well before humans arrived here. Today's whales and dolphins are the ancestors of those members of that species that stayed on the planet. I wrote about that species in the following post and some of the posts that followed it:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l-1#post403277

Before moving on to consider healing and the psychosomatic and the somatopsychic, I'd like to point out that if you've had that problem since age three or four, Libico, then it's what I sometimes call the "baby elephant problem". When circus elephants are very small, they get restrained by having a rope tied around one of their legs. Initially they try hard to pull free of the rope, but find they're not strong enough. Later, as an adult elephant, they simply never try to break that rope, even though at adult size they easily could do so with one flick of their leg. Similarly, at three or four you were so young that you probably told yourself the pain in your back was part of the essence of who you were -- including "you" at an astral level. Ironically, at that age you would probably have been astral traveling quite freely without being old enough to understand that that was what you were doing. But what happened at that young an age is usually buried deep in an individual's subconscious, and it takes something like psychotherapy to peel back the layers before the real offending issue (which in your case probably involves parental cording, at least partly) can be uncovered and re-visited and thereby resolved and removed.

Again, in some lateral kind of sense I experienced a similarity to your situation in my childhood. My mother was extremely clairvoyant and in her head could astrally-see clear movies of everything I ever did, even when she wan't present. In that sense she kept me in a cage -- though she soon learnt she had to make it a very, very gilded cage with quite abnormally great love and affection and validation, even compared to other mothers. Also, I believe that even from the age of at least four or so I had some kind of clear sense of myself as a HM, or certainly as an extra-physical being. Although she didn't realize it, she could never put that in a cage. Because I knew that that extra-physical part was what I truly was, mostly, I could happily often following the path of non-resistance when it came to the cage around my physical self. The irony was, though, that at twenty-six I was still largely in that cage -- that personality that was mostly a kind of copy of my mum -- while I was being taken on astral journeys to every corner of this solar system, usually every night. And then later, when I was thirty, I had still only just broken free of that personality -- but not fully -- and was again taken on similar journeys and taught courses of some kind or other, or trained, every night in the astral.

To be continued.

[TraineeHuman]

The astral body is intertwined, interconnected with the physical body. So is the mental body, and the HM, and ultimately even Source. But all of these are veiled. The higher the dimension, the greater and more radical and difficult to penetrate the veiling is. This is part of the background from which I'd like to (in my next post) discuss psychosomatic phenomena, a topic presumably relevant to Libico's recently expressed concern.

One might suppose the easiest way to begin penetrating the veil is to start with the veil over/to the astral body, which is after all the first veil -- and hence to start by attempting to learn astral travel. But the more I reflect on the experiences of various individuals and groups and also of myself, the more clear it seems that the best way to start is through becoming extensively skilled at (silent) meditation. That's before one even attempts to learn astral travel, unfortunately. Silent meditation takes one into and through the very essence of progressively higher dimensional veils. Meditation is a matter of coming to terms with such things as formless or half-formless realities, and things which don't have a specific existence but a general one only. Hence much of the "fog" and apparent boredom or apparent meaninglessness that many beginners and post-beginners experience in meditation, possibly for many years.

Ironically, what happens in meditation is that one is learning to go into or be at higher and higher levels, often, for beginners and post-beginners, with little or no appreciation that one is indeed then at some high dimension and that one is actually learning to cope with the essence of almost everything involved in being at that dimension. Meditation may not be the only way. Indeed, I happen to know that thirty or more thousand years ago every human being lived so much in a state of spiritual enlightenment they didn't need meditation at all. Today, given our fallen state (which happened gradually, not suddenly, by the way), extensive meditation does seem to be necessary -- also to ensure that you won't be bothered by any negative or hostile beings or entities when you astral travel. It's like you have then already built launching pads (or possibly even stargates?) in higher dimensions for easy entry into them.

But because overcoming the veils seems to be such a gigantically lengthy process, I find it hard to make sense of Drunvalo's claim, and apparently the claim of some indigenous elders, that in the near future all the veils, all the way to Source, are going to be ripped open for all of humankind. But even assuming that could be possible, I claim we would probably continue to experience something like a physical world -- only, we would be conscious of non-polarity and Oneness shining through at every point.

[TraineeHuman]

All healing is self-healing. The way psychic healing works is, the healer facilitates the client's own self-healing. I've seen threads in the Healing section in the past where this has (very correctly) been compared to the healer acting a little like jumper leads -- that restart a stalled car's engine, which then takes over and hopefully has no further need of jumper leads. I have found that psychic healers are the individuals who are in touch with their HM. Basically, what they do is facilitate the client's temporarily getting in touch with their own HM -- long enough for the client's HM to kick in to healing the client's organism. I'm mentioning this here because apparently some members don't realize that psychic healing doesn't work by magic, and that it's not ultimately carried out by the healer.

There are limits to how much the client's organism can heal itself. These don't depend on the quality of the healer -- or not very much, even if the healer has powerful skills in white magic. I think some people have taken the stories about the healing powers of Jesus or whoever and jumped to the conclusion that such a healer can break all the "laws" of biology and physics and chemistry. Not so. All that a Jesus, etc might be able to do would be to facilitate the client getting more powerfully in touch with their HM. A Jesus may have the clairvoyant insight that a particular supposedly lame individual can in fact walk. For that particular individual, saying: "Get up and walk" will be the right thing to say. But not for presumably 99% of paraplegics and the like. For instance, of the people who travel to John of God in Brazil, I understand only around 10% or 20% experience any physical healing. You don't need John of God. Any true psychic healer will do. And the quality of the results depends on you, not on the quality of the healer.

All psychic healers will be aware that quite a few cases are "chronic". This means that possibly the condition can be psychically (self-)healed through many healing sessions (involving the psychic healer's facilitation). This is analogous to a motor car having deteriorated to the point where some part has been broken or somewhat worn out. Although the client's organism does have an extraordinary capacity to regenerate itself, there are limits to this, and usually the body cannot grow a new organ etc.

In Libico's case we have a bodily pain that clearly seems to be psychological in origin -- i.e., created by his astral and mental bodies. This also can gradually be overcome and removed through self-healing, and I'll discuss that in my next post.

[Deneon]

Hi TH, and everyone else!

I haven’t posted in a long, long time. I experienced what I believe(d) to be my first conscious OBE last night, and I have some questions, doubts and thoughts about it. I am hoping you are willing to share your views on my experience.

Short recap: Over a year ago I became very interested in OBEs. Read some books, tried techniques, read all of the OBE threads here. I had very intense energy sensations following all this a few nights, but nothing more. I kept trying for a while, always felt these energies. To this day I can conjure up energy sensations within minutes, but I never seem to be able to get the famous vibrations in full force. Time passed, interest faded a little, real life problems came up, you know how it goes.

The last couple of months, I must have read at least 10 books on OBEs, just because I again became very curious. Tried more techniques. Results have been the same as before. Dream recall has increased enormously over the last few weeks. I began studying, more than reading, Michael Raduga’s book The Phase (available freely on http://www.obe4u.com if anyone is interested). So last night, the following happened:

I woke up around 3:15, got up, went to the toilet, got a glass of water and went back to bed. I might as well do some techniques I thought. I tried some phantom wiggling, with no real success. I began to get in the hypnagogic state and just peered in the blackness and enjoyed the imagery that comes with it. After a while, I became very lightheaded and got a bit dizzy. At this point I began thinking “Get out, get out of my body!”. Suddenly the image of the door to our apartment building began to form. I touched the door to open it, and as I touched it it’s like my consciousness was suddenly completely at that door. I noticed that the more I looked around and the more I touched that door handle, the more aware I felt and the clearer I could see. While this was going on, I knew that I was still lying in bed, I even felt the cat on my leg. That was a weird feeling, as if I was in 2 places at the same time.

I ran out the door onto the street and looked around. I was on the street I grew up in. It was dark outside but I could still see very clearly. Suddenly though, my vision became ‘smaller’. It was like darkness crept in from the corners of my eye up to a point where all I could see was a little speck of the street with darkness all around. Knowing how clear the picture got when I touched the door, I did so again by touching a lamp post on the street. I rubbed my hands together, really felt the texture of the lamppost. Vision came back until it was crystal clear again. For some reason I wanted to try to teleport to an old friend’s house which was 200 meters away on the same street. I closed my eyes and wished myself there. It didn’t work at all. I began to doubt the experience. I thought to myself, just go see if your body is still in your bed and if so, this is a real OBE. Next thing I know I am opening the front door of my apartment. It looks like my current apartment, only the layout of the hall is mirrored. I think to myself “I should turn on the lights” As I thought this, the light outside of my apartment went on. I actually laughed to myself for that happening. I went into my room and I could hear breathing even before I saw anything. I saw my bed, it was dark, but upon close inspection I actually did see myself lying there. There was no fear at all, just curiosity. I had read some nights ago that someone tried touching himself on his cheek and that he actually felt that touch on him in his ‘2nd body’. So I tried that. I didn’t feel it myself, but a second later I was back in my physical body with a jolt of an electric feeling in my bed.

I could not believe at first what had happened. It all felt completely real and there was no gap in consciousness from being in my bedroom seeing myself to being zapped back in my physical body. During the whole experience I thought to myself many times “This can’t be a dream it’s all so real and I’m really here.” During the experience, I was convinced this was a completely conscious real OBE. I wrote everything down and went back to bed. It was hard to fall asleep because I was so excited.

The day after I am beginning to feel like it wasn’t a real OBE. It feels more like a (lucid) dream now (something I have only experienced once before, years ago). I had expected that once I would have a real OBE, there would be no shred of doubt in my mind about the reality of the experience, even the next day (or week, or month). There was no doubt right after the experience, but now that I think back it sort of just feels like a dream. I should be really happy, but I somehow feel disappointment that I remember it as a dream instead of an unforgettable experience. Do some of you recognize this as something you also experienced in ‘the early days’?

Some other thoughts:
- There was not really a feeling of separation. Not even any energy sensations. No weird sounds or visuals or anything. I was just somewhere else suddenly. Could this mean it wasn’t really an OBE but that I just became conscious in a dream?

- I had always set myself the goal to try flying, and to examine how I look while out-of-body, but somehow I ‘forgot’ to do these things, even though I remembered very clearly other things about my physical life (e.g. what I read the day before, wanting to tell someone about this in real life). Is this normal?

- I thought to myself a couple of times things like “wow this is real” and “I am really outside”. I find it odd that I didn’t seem lucid enough to question why I was in a different street than where I live. Can this be attributed to lucidity not being as high as it could be?

- There was no fear at all. All I could think about was to experiment and verify the situation. Isn’t that weird, considering this would be my first real OBE?

Looking forward to hear what others think!

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Deneon (here)
I experienced what I believe(d) to be my first conscious OBE last night, and I have some questions, doubts and thoughts about it. I am hoping you are willing to share your views on my experience.

Short recap: Over a year ago I became very interested in OBEs. Read some books, tried techniques, read all of the OBE threads here. I had very intense energy sensations following all this a few nights, but nothing more. I kept trying for a while, always felt these energies. To this day I can conjure up energy sensations within minutes, but I never seem to be able to get the famous vibrations in full force. Time passed, interest faded a little, real life problems came up, you know how it goes.

The last couple of months, I must have read at least 10 books on OBEs, just because I again became very curious. Tried more techniques. Results have been the same as before. Dream recall has increased enormously over the last few weeks. I began studying, more than reading, Michael Raduga’s book The Phase (available freely on http://www.obe4u.com if anyone is interested). So last night, the following happened:

I woke up around 3:15, got up, went to the toilet, got a glass of water and went back to bed. I might as well do some techniques I thought. I tried some phantom wiggling, with no real success. I began to get in the hypnagogic state and just peered in the blackness and enjoyed the imagery that comes with it. After a while, I became very lightheaded and got a bit dizzy. At this point I began thinking “Get out, get out of my body!”. Suddenly the image of the door to our apartment building began to form. I touched the door to open it, and as I touched it it’s like my consciousness was suddenly completely at that door. I noticed that the more I looked around and the more I touched that door handle, the more aware I felt and the clearer I could see. While this was going on, I knew that I was still lying in bed, I even felt the cat on my leg. That was a weird feeling, as if I was in 2 places at the same time.

I ran out the door onto the street and looked around. I was on the street I grew up in. It was dark outside but I could still see very clearly. Suddenly though, my vision became ‘smaller’. It was like darkness crept in from the corners of my eye up to a point where all I could see was a little speck of the street with darkness all around. Knowing how clear the picture got when I touched the door, I did so again by touching a lamp post on the street. I rubbed my hands together, really felt the texture of the lamppost. Vision came back until it was crystal clear again. For some reason I wanted to try to teleport to an old friend’s house which was 200 meters away on the same street. I closed my eyes and wished myself there. It didn’t work at all. I began to doubt the experience. I thought to myself, just go see if your body is still in your bed and if so, this is a real OBE. Next thing I know I am opening the front door of my apartment. It looks like my current apartment, only the layout of the hall is mirrored. I think to myself “I should turn on the lights” As I thought this, the light outside of my apartment went on. I actually laughed to myself for that happening. I went into my room and I could hear breathing even before I saw anything. I saw my bed, it was dark, but upon close inspection I actually did see myself lying there. There was no fear at all, just curiosity. I had read some nights ago that someone tried touching himself on his cheek and that he actually felt that touch on him in his ‘2nd body’. So I tried that. I didn’t feel it myself, but a second later I was back in my physical body with a jolt of an electric feeling in my bed.

I could not believe at first what had happened. It all felt completely real and there was no gap in consciousness from being in my bedroom seeing myself to being zapped back in my physical body. During the whole experience I thought to myself many times “This can’t be a dream it’s all so real and I’m really here.” During the experience, I was convinced this was a completely conscious real OBE. I wrote everything down and went back to bed. It was hard to fall asleep because I was so excited.

The day after I am beginning to feel like it wasn’t a real OBE. It feels more like a (lucid) dream now (something I have only experienced once before, years ago). I had expected that once I would have a real OBE, there would be no shred of doubt in my mind about the reality of the experience, even the next day (or week, or month). There was no doubt right after the experience, but now that I think back it sort of just feels like a dream. I should be really happy, but I somehow feel disappointment that I remember it as a dream instead of an unforgettable experience. Do some of you recognize this as something you also experienced in ‘the early days’?

Some other thoughts:
- There was not really a feeling of separation. Not even any energy sensations. No weird sounds or visuals or anything. I was just somewhere else suddenly. Could this mean it wasn’t really an OBE but that I just became conscious in a dream?

- I had always set myself the goal to try flying, and to examine how I look while out-of-body, but somehow I ‘forgot’ to do these things, even though I remembered very clearly other things about my physical life (e.g. what I read the day before, wanting to tell someone about this in real life). Is this normal?

- I thought to myself a couple of times things like “wow this is real” and “I am really outside”. I find it odd that I didn’t seem lucid enough to question why I was in a different street than where I live. Can this be attributed to lucidity not being as high as it could be?

- There was no fear at all. All I could think about was to experiment and verify the situation. Isn’t that weird, considering this would be my first real OBE?

Looking forward to hear what others think!

The astral body is in conflict with the physical body in important ways. So also is the mental body with both of these. Even the HM has a very detached and impartial take on all three bodies. In, say, Freed Fox's case, it evidently saw fit for him to live most (all?) of a lifetime with a major physical handicap.

Notice even that the whole phenomenon of the vibrations is just simply the astral body being unstable, while the physical body still commands most of -- too much of -- one's attention.

Because of the conflict between the astral body and the physical one, Deneon, both bodies have their own version of sight. These can sometimes be in conflict because both types of sight can be switched on at the same time. You may possibly have noticed yourself going "lucid" in both the physical and the astral body at the same time, for instance. More experienced individuals (including myself) typically experience simultaneous "vision" or "feeling" or whatever at different levels. But a beginner may often already experience switching from one type of vision seamlessly, in a moment. In initial astral projection experiences one goes to one or other of the astral levels that still look almost the same as the physical world and have some form of gravity still operating. There it may be difficult to tell which form of sight is "on" at a given moment. Some people don't initially have their second (i.e., astral) sight working. So congratulations on having that, Deneon. (There is some good advice on how to develop such sight in The Astral Codex -- see post #1472.)

I usually didn't experience floating or flying astral "sensations" in the initial two years of regular astral travel -- even though I could (astral) see from the start that I was often flying rapidly over distances and even into other levels. Many such things take time to develop. It's a little like becoming, say, a musician. It takes years. I understand American Idol is currently one of the most popular TV shows. Consider how much is involved for a new singer to win the first prize in that. Also, some "locations" in the astral are shrouded in a kind of fog, so one can never see very far while in those locations anyway.

I prefer to think of the physical, astral and mental bodies, and even the HM, as different ways of "seeing" or experiencing. You can indeed simply jump from one to the other, and that's what I normally do -- except that one learns to "see" from more than one level at the same time.

All the different bodies were after all created by our Consciousness at the level of Divine Mind. It's only by eventually raising our consciousness to such a level that we can finally resolve the conflict between different levels of reality in us -- and indeed all conflict, all oppositions and polarities, altogether.

In the meanwhile, we may experience, as in Libico's case, a specific physical pain, lasting many years, that is created by or through the astral body. In Libico's case the discomfort or pain is in the lower back, which is the back part of the solar plexus chakra area. That chakra is all about one's identity, one's role, one's vocation. Who made you feel insecure at age three or four, Libico? Who took away your confidence, your power in some way? Most individuals wouldn't remember what happened at that age, not without digging very hard.Discomfort or pain from the rear side means external control by someone else, usually a parent or sibling (at that age), and that's why I mentioned cording earlier on, Libico.

One phenomenon very well-known to psychic healers is that at least 99% of the problem underlying a physical healing -- if the condition is indeed healable -- is emotional/mental. Interestingly, though, the healer doesn't heal the entire psychological problem, but only does so enough to keep it temporarily in check. That somehow gives the physical organism temporary "breathing room" to rebalance itself and often remove the physical sickness or condition, or at least to improve it significantly. Notice, though, how this is another example of how the astral and mental and the physical interact -- and of how the HM can bring in greater balance regarding how they affect one another.

Lifeforce is already a very important and central feature of reality in the astral levels. Notice that lifeforce in itself is already semi-consciousness, in the astral. My understanding is that there are higher levels of Lifeforce. From the HM level on, such Lifeforce can instantly shift gears, so to speak, now to the physical, now to the astral, or the mental.

More comments from me later, Deneon.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Deneon (here)

The last couple of months, I must have read at least 10 books on OBEs, just because I again became very curious. Tried more techniques. Results have been the same as before. Dream recall has increased enormously over the last few weeks. I began studying, more than reading, Michael Raduga’s book The Phase (available freely on http://www.obe4u.com if anyone is interested). So last night, the following happened:

It's great that you're taking action. Unfortunately a discussion Forum, or a book, can only present knowledge. As you've proved in your case, that's no doubt when the knowledge becomes genuinely valuable. Experience gradually turns into consciousness. That's because the essence of the experience becomes integrated more and more into one's life, so that eventually its essence is constantly there. This need not just be the experience of astral projection. The experience of meditation will do also, for instance.

As long as the HM is in a veiled form only, or mainly, it's mixed up with emotional (astral) and mental baggage. We have seen quite dramatically, I feel, in the case of our friend Freed Fox, how much despair and frustration and dissatisfaction the urge towards the HM can bring as it finds imperfect expression in emotional form. For many individuals, however, both emotional and mental frustration of this order may need to be gone through. Ultimately, though, it's the call of the HM, as it strives towards breaking through. Both the emotional and the mental parts of a person have to agree to listen to the voice of the HM, however distorted (by emotional and mental baggage) and seemingly tiny a voice it may initially seem to be.

More comments from me shortly.

[chocolate]

A forum search for the name of Tom Cambell (Thomas Campbell) redirected me to this thread, and I am going to disturb the OBE experiences only to post several videos in which Tom Campbell explains the nature of reality, gives some tools for accessing 'super abilities', and a lot of other interesting facts and speculations. I have to say I agree to a degree with what he is saying, but not 100 %. Yet. I haven't read his books.

Part 1 deals with the double slit experiment and what currently science has established:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2Nlbro2MNBs

Part 2:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_wISsxE-EZU

And part 3 which is the practical part with some techniques for Remote Viewing, healing and such:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=nqyK9lbwTEQ

The information presented is quite fascinating, but it is not easily put into the framework of the current understanding of the world. I apologize if this has been covered, skimming through the thread gave me only a rough overview.

I hope you will have a fun time watching/listening.

[TraineeHuman]

Hi, chocolate. I'm sure your contribution is appreciated. Tom Campbell is very interesting because he describes many unfamiliar concepts and phenomena in simple language. That's not easy to do, by any means. Like you, I don't agree with Campbell's own individual take on certain things. But that's often not important, because he nearly always starts by painting the broader, background picture first, the picture that's generally accepted by most physicists and cosmologists. Campbell seems to like to think that physics, in the broader sense including quantum theory, includes absolutely everything else. That's not true. However, he has used deep investigation into the foundations of physics as a way of penetrating far into reality -- where everything is deeply interconnected with everything else, including with the foundations of physics.

Reality is very, very different from the very superficial version of "reality" that our senses and conditioning lead us to suppose we're experiencing. When deeply experienced as it truly is, it forces the most radical changes to our most basic concepts. It challenges everything we ever imagined we knew to be true. I'm happy to talk about the ideas of anyone who points us in that direction, be it Carlos Castaneda or Tom Campbell or Gary Zukav or many others. I experienced this deepest underlying reality at the ages of fourteen to sixteen. Prior to that, I had considered that philosophy was totally useless, because it seemed to be concerned with proving that the most obvious things were true, when didn't we already know these were true? But unless one is willing to question absolutely everything that one supposes to be obvious or real, one sure will never truly appreciate what the deeper reality is like, nor how it acts. Talk about going far inside rabbitholes.

[chocolate]

Hi TraineeHuman!
I am having a little bit of a trouble understanding Mr. Campbell's view on the larger "consciousness" being a digital information field?! without any way of proving exactly that he is correct. I feel he is travelling on the stream of everything else being digital information, so presumably that thing is what he says it is. He makes certain assumptions regarding this, as well as regarding his version of the holographic simulation I am having problems with. It could be just my own limitation speaking, but it could as well be different. But even having a bit of a skeptical eye on some of his explanations, I truly appreciate his effort and details. It is fascinating. I can see very few people being able to relate to what he is saying. May be here on PA more would be able to relate to his words, but outside I cannot even imaging who I could talk to using the same language / explanations and such. People seem to shut themselves off the moment they start to see where I am heading with my thoughts. Or so it seems.

I wrote on a thread just before I stumbled upon the videos above using almost the same terminology, but in my view the larger consciousness is a bit different from whet he explains it to be. I had a bit of a shock to hear someone speak about it 3 years before me coming to the same conclusions on my own.
I will not go in detailed explanations. I will re-watch the videos again to see how they sound today.
personally I always found philosophy to be true when I approached it with my intuitive understanding. I have a long practice of yoga, and later qi gong before that was popular to the extend it is today. I have learned at the time suspending my technical/logical mind.

Regarding the thread, it is strange to me that some people spend so much time and effort trying to do things that come naturally to all of us, being conscious or not of them occurring. I will read through the thread more carefully in the next couple of days. But talking about OBE is not going to be my thing.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by chocolate (here)
I am having a little bit of a trouble understanding Mr. Campbell's view on the larger "consciousness" being a digital information field?! without any way of proving exactly that he is correct. I feel he is travelling on the stream of everything else being digital information, so presumably that thing is what he says it is. He makes certain assumptions regarding this, as well as regarding his version of the holographic simulation I am having problems with. It could be just my own limitation speaking, but it could as well be different.
I wrote on a thread just before I stumbled upon the videos above using almost the same terminology, but in my view the larger consciousness is a bit different from whet he explains it to be. I had a bit of a shock to hear someone speak about it 3 years before me coming to the same conclusions on my own.

Tom Campbell believes that our physical universe is a hologram; and that from this it follows that it must be generated by some super computer in the sky. Certainly it seems very likely and plausible that the physical world is some kind of hologram. But why would it follow that that hologram was generated by a computer? Computers, as we know them, are fundamentally very much digital in nature, in the way they work. Hence Campbell's claim that the physical world is fundamentally digital.

I haven't come across Campbell's explanation for why he believes this. But I wonder if maybe it was based on the supposed fact that we supposedly can't tell the difference between a virtual (physical) reality generated by a sophisticated computer -- as in the predicted technology of the future -- and physical reality itself.

One objection I have to Campbell's claim comes from looking at the Pythagoreans of ancient Greek times. This is a little technical. But the Pythagoreans claimed that all physical reality was reducible to, and fully measurable in, whole numbers, or fractions of whole numbers. It was however proved in their day that the square root of two cannot be equal to any fraction of two whole numbers (one whole number divided by another). Not only that, but by the eighteenth century mathematicians had proved (absolutely) that virtually all finite lengths or numbers are not only not fractions of whole numbers but moreover are "transcendental". A transcendental number is one which cannot be described by any polynomial. The square root of two, however, is the x which satisfies the polynomial "x squared minus two equals zero". (An example of an infinite collection of numbers is every possible length between zero inches and one inch on a ruler.) The first number proved to be transcendental, by the way, was pi, the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.

I suspect Campbell is assuming that because it's possible to generate at least a rough-grained picture of a complete hologram out of any part of it, that generating must be done by some kind of computing process. But for me, that's way too mechanical. I suspect holograms, and the way they hang together, are something much more wonderful than that. One thing experienced meditators get a lot is the direct insight into the sameness of all things. That sameness is in no way boring, and in no way mechanical, or dull, or lacking in vitality or beauty. I suspect this is the key to what makes a hologram work, and not some computer or computer-like process. The sameness, and also the Oneness that is the glue that holds everything together.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Deneon (here)
I began to get in the hypnagogic state and just peered in the blackness and enjoyed the imagery that comes with it. After a while, I became very lightheaded and got a bit dizzy.

It's great that you can apparently identify the hypnagogic/hypnapompic state. Such a state is not far at all from being touch with one's HM, or may mean one is so in touch. Can you learn to retain that state, for periods at least, while you're going about your everyday affairs? In my own case (I know, you may ask why am "I" bringing in individuality after you've read my paragraph to come below), one of the biggest benefits of practicing astral projection and mental projection was that it enabled me to do that better -- i.e., to live at "two levels" simultaneously. It was something I greatly treasured during those years, and it was a transition to learning how to, considerably later on, stay largely free from unhappiness.

The day after I am beginning to feel like it wasn’t a real OBE. It feels more like a (lucid) dream now (something I have only experienced once before, years ago). I had expected that once I would have a real OBE, there would be no shred of doubt in my mind about the reality of the experience, even the next day (or week, or month). There was no doubt right after the experience, but now that I think back it sort of just feels like a dream. I should be really happy, but I somehow feel disappointment that I remember it as a dream instead of an unforgettable experience. Do some of you recognize this as something you also experienced in ‘the early days’?

If a truly unforgettable and extraordinary vivid experience is what you truly want and need, may I suggest that that would be the initial experience or two or more of spiritual enlightenment. In such an experience one clearly sees, for example, that the whole notion of individuality is false and utterly unreal. Mind you, as long as we continue to have a physical body (or an astral or mental one), we have no option but to honor what we then know to be the illusory matrix in which such things exist and make their demands on us.

There was not really a feeling of separation. Not even any energy sensations. No weird sounds or visuals or anything. I was just somewhere else suddenly. Could this mean it wasn’t really an OBE but that I just became conscious in a dream?

No! On the contrary, the lack of separation means you were right in touch with your HM. In fact, you were in touch with a higher dimension, that of the HM, where there is no such thing as a body of any kind within that dimension. This is great. Once again, Deneon, I have to insist that you are doing much better, and reaching higher levels, than you suppose.

There was no fear at all. All I could think about was to experiment and verify the situation. Isn’t that weird, considering this would be my first real OBE?

Again, I would repeat my last comment.

Finally, one principle I have always sought to follow, and found extraordinarily fruitful, is to always look for what is beautiful. Beauty is an extraordinary royal road to real (absolute or ultimate) Truth. I'm not saying be a Polyanna or wear blinkers. But if you want vivid and unforgettable experiences in any dimension, including the physical, stay with what is beautiful when it happens to be there -- the beauty of Nature or whatever. And when it isn't there, have your antennas out for it. I've already mentioned the great importance of being always very honest with yourself about yourself, and how that takes you deep into Truth. But beauty helps you get there as well.

[TraineeHuman]

Libico (via PM): I am wondering why I am not able to confront and overcome this recurring situation. I've tried fighting it, taunting it, showing love, acceptance, etc; nothing seems to work. This latest attempt at merging was a first, but I do think I held back a tiny back due to a tiny bit of apprehension there.

You say that acceptance doesn't seem to work, but you seem to me to strongly imply that it did help a little, Libico? I actually suspect that maybe it worked somewhat but it's something that needs to be done more fully. Certainly, you may not be possible to achieve success in one day or one week of this. Let me explain more fully.

I agree the ego's resistance is probably causing most, if not all, of your problem. Let's take more of a look at what the core of the ego is than we have perhaps done in this thread so far. Maybe it would be preferable to use a different term for it, though, such as "(the) me", or "(the) self". Anyway, it's all ultimately to do with a deep feeling of separation. Notice, by the way, that the HM doesn't have any sense of separation, or of missing out, or being hardly done by, or seeing Life as unjust, ever, regardless of what events may happen to one. It's only when one can switch off all the self-pity and all blaming of anyone or anything else for one's own misery that one can "switch on" the HM's view, which is that one is totally responsible for absolutely everything that happens to one. Maybe the origin of a problem is buried deep in some past lifetime or former universe somewhere, that one doesn't seem to have any memory or knowledge of at all. But the HM simply accepts that that must somehow be the case. No complaints. Maybe even one's whole life was meant to be a sacrifice. (By the way, to be very candid, mine was meant to be. And strangely, I somehow found freedom from most forms of unhappiness anyway.)

Notice too that, although Deneon has evidently had only one proper astral projection so far, he did it the easy way, because he did it with and through his HM. Ironically, the problem with the ego or self is -- itself! It searches for the problem so hard, never suspecting. The ego/self/me has no self-understanding -- it doesn't get to see any accurate reflection of itself in the mirror, at all. It's very ignorant, and quite pathetic and idiotic and unharmonious. But you have to separate from it (i.e., your HM has to) before it's possible to see that.

Some more recent comments regarding the ego are at
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post778600

and at https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post781303

[Haakon]

What do you mean by your life was supposed to be a sacrifice ?
And what would be the Higher Minds purpose for this ?

Love this thread

[TraineeHuman]

Haakon, I remember volunteering to come to this physical world. That's really all I meant by "a sacrifice". I'm sure many other members are also volunteers, and if they could remember what that was like, their memory would be something similar. I didn't mean some kind of occult ritual significance at all, by the way.

[TraineeHuman]

The first eleven minutes of the first video of Tom Campbell in post #1491 above are great. I agree with every word 100%.They are general introductory but profound comments that apply to all spirituality generally. Thank you so much, chocolate. They also cover in a very general way why it is that you don't need to be successful at astral projection or indeed any psychic skill at all. I would be 100% happy to preface everything I've said in this thread with those remarks.

I'll have more comments in a few days, when I'll have more free time.

[TraineeHuman]

Tom Campbell explains, in the first video above, how physical reality must be both non-local and also not made up of anything resembling particles or objects. He explains, very clearly and logically but rather academically, how both of these are a direct consequence of the results of something known as the double-slit experiment. It's an inescapable fact, based on the unambiguous results of that experiment.

What he means by "non-local" is that nothing in the physical universe is fully separate from anything else. This is exemplified by what's known as "quantum entanglement". That means that two physical areas or lifeforms on opposite sides of the universe will sometimes be "entangled". When they are, whatever happens to one will have a huge effect on whatever happens to the other -- in a seemingly random or magical way. Notice how this idea that nothing is really fully separate from anything else dovetails with how I have been saying that for the Higher Mind there's ultimately no complete separation anywhere -- however deeply veiled the interconnections may be.

What he means by saying that physical reality isn't object-like in nature is that it's ultimately not passive or inert at all, but active, and incorporating subjecthood -- much as in human beings there is both the "me" side but also -- and much more importantly -- the "I" side. Hence, he explains, physical reality isn't made of electrons or photons or quarks or strings. These are nothing more than metaphors. They are just spiders' wisps. The trouble is, physics has rarely taken the subjecthood side seriously in a detailed way. And yet, around a century ago quantum physicists discovered that subjecthood is real and very much at the core of everything and that it does make a huge difference -- to everything, at least everything physical. In an analogous way, the physical body, and even the astral and mental bodies, are illusions if we identify with them strongly. Another point I would make is that some people feel great anxiety or fear at the idea that they are not ultimately something like a particle. They don't appreciate that they are some-"thing" infinitely greater than that. It's just that our languages and conditioning have tricked us into misdescribing who/what we are, and selling ourselves short.