Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Zamolxe]

If it was a staged event, wouldn't the news of the captured BUK launcher have appeared in ukrainian and western media instead of pro-russian media?

[jackovesk]

Posted by Agape (here)
A thought or two of mine own .. such as who might have true interest in both of the Malaysian planes disasters ..and whom you /we potentially do not count it .

I do best without links to think straight so if plenty of links are considered 'supportive evidence' you'll have to excuse me and do your own search that you'll do anyway .

Malaysia ? What do we truly know about Malaysia ?

Yes me too I have had friends there and heard it's one of the most beautiful countries in the world , with people of all different religious groups living peacefully together, the majority are Muslims but they're not that orthodox, there's plenty of unspoiled wildlife , mild climate all over the year , beautiful fruits ,
it's a progressive country in many terms .. taking care of people and environment, high living standards, and so forth .

Does it have a shady side ?

I bet sure it does . The major investors of this rapid economical and class growth in Malaysia were not the Muslim sheikhs and their descendants you see in todays government ,
theirs is a due half but maybe well 'lesser half' , the others were rich Chinese businessmen , similar people as those who built Hongkong and Singapore , and .. their Western counterparts .

You and I may not see to this ... it's in Asia .. their powerful clans and mafia wars .

What could be the reason ?

Malaysian government turning 'too pro-democracy' and establishing ties with the West ?

Many of the MA370 passengers were Chinese engineers working for US company, US patent holders .

Of course, this is not how any official government agency would think or act .. they can't afford to breach commonly accepted rules . But this is how mafia backed up by extremely rich people MAY think and act ,
to achieve aims we may know nothing about quite yet .

I can't imagine how would this serve them anyway except for pulling the strings of political imbalance , would they 'pay Putin for the expenses ' of risking a war against the world ?

It's the same people who would like to see the Chinese Dragon rising .. not by the law but by the power of money that's been hidden ..


I may be 100% wrong here but if you're searching for common denominator for the two crashes, don't be so America-centred and think everything in the world is happening because of you .
The power of America is in its openness ... while the power of the East had long been in its secrecy and hidden laws ..
two exactly opposing factors in the game, yin and yang .

The secret of the power-game is in the power being distributed equally, small or big . When serious misbalance occurs, conflicts start and may turn to wars .

If I think about meaning of these 2 accidents seriously ..and all the state of matters, internationally, I sense a warning ..

Some of these Questions are answered in the Dr. Steve Pieczenik's post 'above your OP...

[Cidersomerset]

A few recent Rt articles.........


Moscow raises questions surrounding MH17 crash

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=12UaRF5fE_c

Published on 19 Jul 2014


There are still more questions than answers on the catastrophe.
And Russia's Defense Ministry is demanding information from Kiev.
RT's Maria Finoshina reports.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Experts slow to access MH17 crash site close to frontline, only OSCE arrived

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ajeCkTUFyB0

Published on 20 Jul 2014


Flowers layed upon debris and the scattered remains of 298 people.
Russia and the UN have urged for an international investigation and
a team of observers arrived at the site on Friday. But local self-proclaimed
authorities say international involvement has been slow in coming.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ukrainian Emergency services remove bodies from MH17 crash site

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4JbDgeBWA6I

Published on 19 Jul 2014


The bodies of the victims of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 were removed
from the crash site near the settlement of Grabovo, Donetsk region,
Saturday. The Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which was en route to Kuala
Lumpur from Amsterdam, went down in eastern Ukraine on Thursday.
The aircraft was flying at an altitude of around 10,600 metres (34,700 feet)
when ground control lost contact. It has not yet been confirmed how the
plane was brought down.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

RAW: World mourns MH17 crash in Ukraine

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CjrA44MrTB0

Published on 19 Jul 2014


Mourners from around the globe left flowers, candles and stuffed
animals for the victims of the MH17 crash in Ukraine. In Amsterdam's
airport where the plane took off, to the small flower shop that two
of the victims owned, people paid their respects to those who died.

[sigma6]

Posted by Selene (here)
While I was initially inclined to discount the ‘missed Putin’s plane’ theory as a red herring here, on further consideration it does have some significant merit.

The Official Story/Plan A here is the Horrific Public Outrage ploy: 300 innocent civilians die needlessly, etc. The usual false flag drama, again. Bad guys here are eventually the Russians. Okay. We know that one.

But suppose that strategy is old news and, for the sake of argument, they were double dipping instead. Consider the High Value Assassination/Plan B takeout: Kill a key NWO opponent (this has considerable precedent) and blame the other guys anyway. This also has a considerable historic track record.

In the second case, eliminating Putin would undoubtedly please a lot of people of a certain type: he’s foiled their war on Syria, the attacks on Iran, sponsored the new BRICS world bank/currency alternative, is cozy with China – the list goes on. And if they could do that and blame the patsy Ukraine government or the Russians themselves.... Merde! (pardon....) Double! And just imagine the leaderless and destabilizing pandemonium in Russia with Putin’s death! Perfect! No matter how the fallout plays out, they will have gotten rid of a major “problem” even if they don’t trigger WW3 this time.

But mistakes (or white hats?) do happen. Suppose one of Putin’s KGB friends/double agents pulled strings and the Malaysia flight just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Suppose, just for the sake of argument, again, that those military jets were tricked into using MH as a DECOY, spoofed into escorting it as Putin’s plane? And the Ukrainian/Russian/whomever forces were fooled into shooting down the ‘wrong’ Putin plane, by whatever means.... Of course the naive shooters would have been told the plane was loaded with... whatever.

Trickery? Lies? Nah. Nobody would ever do a thing like that, would they?

Just speculating.

Cheers,

Selene

Impressive... I never thought of that scenario, but it makes sense... and the one thing that the Russians didn't ask was about the Spanish Air Traffic Controller and why the Ukrainian Fighters were escorting the MH17

[Cidersomerset]

That reminds me, I was going to look into what Dr. Steve Pieczenik's ((INTEL)) was on MH17..?

Alex Jones said he is going to get Dr. Steve Pieczenik's on the show
to talk about the crash a couple of days ago. I cannot find anything yet...



===================================================




Two cabin crew refused to fly on doomed plane over war zone safety fears: Senior
pilots and cabin crew flagged concerns about flight path weeks before tragedy

Airline staff refused to fly over airspace deeming it too dangerous

Two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport aircraft, shot down by rebels on
the flight path

BA, all US airlines, Lufthansa, Air France and Qantas already avoid war zone in Ukraine

By Simon Parry and Simon Murphy

Published: 22:15, 19 July 2014 | Updated: 11:57, 20 July 2014

Two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on the doomed Malaysian
airliner downed by a missile in eastern Ukraine, after raising concerns about the
safety of flying over the war zone.

Other senior pilots and cabin crew had flagged up fears about the flightpath in the
weeks leading up to the tragedy, although Malaysia Airlines last night denied
ignoring crew concerns.

Some staff are reported to have refused to fly over the airspace where the
passenger airliner was downed because they deemed it to be too volatile and
dangerous, especially after two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport
aircraft, were shot down by rebels.

According to well-placed Malaysia Airlines sources, at least two cabin crew swapped
shifts so they would not be on MH17, specifically because they were worried about
the flightpath. The Mail on Sunday has been told worried pilots consulted air traffic
controllers in Malaysia and also made an informal approach to the International
Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). But still Malaysia Airlines did not divert the
route, unlike other carriers.

British Airways as well as all US airlines, Lufthansa, Air France and Qantas, were
already avoiding the war zone in Ukraine, adding an extra 20 minutes’ flight time,
and there is growing pressure on Malaysia Airlines to explain why it did not follow suit.


Asiana Airlines, another company avoiding the war zone, said: ‘Although the detour
adds to flight time and cost, we have been making the detour for safety.’ Last
night, civil aviation analyst Chris Yates backed up the pilots’ concerns, saying: ‘My
view is that wherever there is a conflict zone, then above that conflict zone the
airspace should be closed.

‘Any time that you have civil strife or military strife ongoing in a military area, my
opinion is that airspace should be closed until the situation clears up. Why take the
risk? The bottom line is: Passengers on flights need to stay safe.’


Ismail Nasarudd, the president of the National Union of Flight Attendants in
Malaysia said yesterday that serious questions needed to be asked about how the
passenger jet was allowed to fly over the war zone.

Mr Nasarudd, who said that he was not aware of any union members who had
raised concerns about flying in the airspace, added: ‘We are very angry and upset
that this has happened. The International Civil Aviation Organisation had given the
green light for aircraft to fly over that airspace above 32,000ft and other airlines
were doing so.


‘We need to know whether the International Civil Aviation Organisation was aware
of a risk of flying in that airspace and, if it was, why it made the decision to allow
flights. We also want to know whether Malaysia Airlines was specifically targeted.’

The British Civil Aviation Authority had warned operators to take caution in the
Donetsk area but Eurocontrol, the EU authority, and the International Civil Aviation
Organisation had not imposed a ban on flying through the zone.

A Malaysia Airlines spokesman said last night: ‘No crew members have discussed
any concerns about flying over Ukraine.

‘Malaysia Airlines, along with many other airlines, has been flying in this airspace,
which was declared safe by ICAO and IATA.

He added: ‘150 airlines each day were using the same air corridor.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz38229nOev
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[Hervé]

Merkel, Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash

By Agence France-Presse, Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:21 EDT



German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, “agreed that an international, independent commission under the direction of ICAO (UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization) should quickly have access to the site of the accident… to shed light on the circumstances of the crash and move the victims,” said a German government statement.

A Kremlin statement on the same phone call said that “both sides stressed the importance of a thorough and objective investigation of all circumstances relating to what has happened” and said Merkel gave a “positive assessment of Russia’s readiness to send its representative to participate in the investigation.”

The two leaders also agreed that a contact group comprising Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should meet “quickly” with the aim of reaching a ceasefire in the conflict between Kiev and the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the German government statement.

“The chancellor once again asked President Putin to exercise his influence over the separatists in order to reach this objective,” it said.

In a possible barrier to further talks, however, the Kremlin statement said the contact group should include separatist representatives, a move opposed by Kiev.

[GoodETxSG]

Who knows, if it is determined that the missile was fired from the Ukraine Forces it will be said that a Russian Backed Rebel infiltrated the battery and fired the missile... or the missile was stolen from the battery and fired from the rebel held battery and some genius hacked the the hardware & memory on both battery systems to change the Missile SN Fire/No Fire information...

The Missile Serial Number has not been traced to any Device at this point... That is why the "Rebel's" have guarantee'd the safety of an International Crash Inspection Team and why the Ukraine has been redacting all kinds of material from the record and taking control of the Tower Tapes etc...

Putin and the so called leader of the Rebels has requested that not only the Rebels but the Ukraine's entire stock of missiles w/serial numbers be open for inspection. Medium Level SAM Systems are not something an untrained team can operate and successfully hit a target at 33K Feet. It is really pointless trying to convince people that have bought the party propaganda but not uncommon as everyone is conditioned to do so. The Launch Vehicle that was captured can be easily inspected and the EPROM keeps a log of all SN's of missiles fired and all millise SN's are strictly logged in a chain of command from the manufacturer, vendor to the field.

All of the information in the MSM and Alt Media is being manipulated right now like crazy... I have close friends from the region and get first hand reports of what is going on. what is being reported is not what is happening... the civilian death toll is much higher than reported and these are not armed civilians but people (Families) hunkered down in their homes being hit by mortars.

Many of the reports supposed to be from the "Rebels" such as recorded phone calls, intercepted radio transmissions, photo's/video's and propaganda pamphlet's are all standard "Counter Intel Packages" that are easy to create and deliver. The complexity of the package depends on the Command/Control Structure of the target and the "Fog of War" aspects. If you can plant a story and it flies for 3 days or more with out a rebuttal from the command of the target then the lack of response sells the story no matter how hard they try to fight the story in the future when they are not busy dodging mortar shells and air craft bombs. That is how the game is played. And WE THE PUBLIC are the suckers and more often than not buy the stories HOOK LINE & SINKER!

From one of the articles I posted in my first post on this thread... You are not going to "Get it" from the outside looking in no matter how hard you try or how much propaganda your watch or read from either side. If you do not have sources on the ground that you trust you can and are only speculating.

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

EDIT: As BRICS is being setup and the CABAL'S Western Economy and Scheme crumbles at their feet... and they see that their crimes against humanity will be exposed they are desperate... They do not plan on going down alone. They have "Green Lit" programs like this all over the world against BRICS Allied Nations...

[sigma6]

Posted by Roisin (here)
Putin is not perfect, far from it.... but like Bill Ryan said, he's done a lot of good things for Russia. In fact, my views about him changed while watching the Olympics because I saw someone who literally moved mountains to make that event happen and I was even a little annoyed that most of the Western leaders in the world didn't show up for the opening ceremony.

He's worked hard to gain the respect and trust of leaders all over the world and he managed to even do that too. So, how can one dislike someone like this? Someone who marches to his own drummer yet, at the same time has been willing to be diplomatic and compromise on various important issues with world leaders just for the sake of peace and harmony so long as it didn't leave Russia with the short end of the stick.

Just saying that I understand his appeal and why so many out there really do have much respect for him.

I also feel sad that this incident happened because it's going to stop a good, competent leader from completing his mission which is to bring Russia back to its former glory. I really, really thought he was going to do that but now, that's not going to happen and I'm sad about that.

Is it his fault? Yes, because he didn't take those precautions necessary to make sure that he/Russia would not be framed in any way, shape or form by his enemies due to what's been going on in Ukraine.

At any rate, as the day wore on I came to the point where I am now that he/Russia was framed to make it seem like they were the ones who shot down that commercial airline. There are a few scenario's that would allow something like that to happen but I don't think that someone like Putin would intentionally allow anything like that to happen -- and in fact, it goes against everything that he stands for. He would never jeopardize Russia's standing in the world political theater by doing something like that. It goes against everything he stands for... right down to the core of his very being.

Russia is not the guilty party in this incident...

It's not over til the fat lady sings... I don't see the West coming out on top, just a series of blips on the screen. Like Alex Jones said, CNN doesn't even have any real ratings anymore, it's just a strawman pretend News network, to hide the fact that nobody is watching or believing it (and pity the sad 100,000 or so who are still watching it...) The US is on some kind of self destruct path, which is really the result of a bunch of stubborn leaders on a ship they have fleeced all the holdings for themselves and they have crashed it purposely on the shores because they don't want to hand over the reigns. I think Fulford has it right (can't wait to hear his analysis on this one!) We are going to see more terrorist attacks and False Flags. But this one is crucial. I think the Cabal will live and die on this one. If they can get the world to believe this BS... They can drag out the terror and cause more destruction.

On the other hand if the world wakes up and calls them out... Then this could be the last straw. This is just another US political campaign. As dirty and palm greased as it gets... But clearly there does seem to be some amazing timing. Blow up another Malaysian 777, blame it on the Russians to buy the US/Ukraine some face, while Israel skulks into Gaza and kills people indiscriminately, while the media circus focused the camera lights on Eastern Ukraine...

It's ingenious... but is it going to work... These people are getting more desperate, and making more mistakes, and becoming more difficult to believe...

And I can't stand to watch Obama now, just the sight of him makes me sick... And all the US officials seem like the creepiest bunch of scum bags that ever walked the earth. I don't know which stench is worse what come from them or the already dead bodies planted on the faked MH17... (note huge insinuation inserted here... see anyone can do this...

[sigma6]

He does look rather puppety, but with Kerry there (the Cabal puppet) It makes him look more real...
You can imagine the surreal nature of one puppet welcoming another puppet with promises of power and riches
in exchange for killing a few of your countrymen... moo hoo hahahahahaa!!!
and the promise of a skull and bones wrist watch, waterproof up to 33 feet..

[Zionbrion]

I wonder what this has to do with all of the current events.


http://rt.com/usa/169700-cryptome-war-snowden-docs/

​All of the National Security Agency files accessed by former contractor Edward Snowden could be published in the month of July if vaguely worded predictions tweeted this week from the digital library site Cryptome prove to be correct.

A series of micro-messages published by the website — a portal for sharing sensitive documents that predates WikiLeaks by a decade — suggest further Snowden leaks may be on the way.

“During July all Snowden docs released” reads an excerpt from one Cryptome tweet sent on Monday this week. “July is when war begins unless headed off by Snowden full release of crippling intel. After war begins not a chance of release,” reads another tweet sent from Cryptome on Monday this week. “Only way war can be avoided. Warmongerers [sic] are on a rampage. So, yes, citizens holding Snowden docs will do the right thing,” insists another.

[sigma6]

Posted by sigma6 (here)

Posted by fifula (here)
Yet it could be another interesting puzzle to our jigsaw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fyt...VErr8EYxg8t1dQ

BUMP... If this is a legitimate video, then this is HUGE. WHAT IF... This whole thing is a false flag? What if this was remoted control crashed, and THEN blown up?... Daboo make an EXCELLENT point of view, if this was shot in the sky the parts and bodies would be strewn over miles.... HOLY SMOKES...

I take this back, apparently they say it was strewn over miles, but that made think of something else. Have noticed most all of the video shots, none ever really pan back and show the whole stretch of the wreckage? And there are so many propaganda fake pictures, of the perfectly unburnt childrens toys and expired passports. And even the wreckage, you never get to see it within a wider larger context. A real panoramic shot... just saying...

Anyhow this supposed photo being taken itself is suspect. What are the odds, and it is one of those phony movie angle shots of something over the horizon, that plays more on your mind's suggestion... really there is NOTHING in it... but smoke (no mirrors)

[SilentFeathers]

Some interesting language in this interview...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6QOPOdstx-4

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Paul (here)
As I read the above Global Research report, it claims that the Ukraine government in Kiev (but not the "Russian separatists") did have the Buk surface-to-air missile used in the shoot down, did force flight MH17 off course and into range of their missile batteries using a fighter escort, and did know about the downing almost the same time as when the air traffic controllers lost contact.

Moreover, either the Kiev government or the bastards controlling them (some combination of the Bush Crime Cabal and/or the World Zionists, the latter of whom invaded the Gaza strip hours later) did have good reason to "benefit" from a European commercial airliner being shot down over eastern ("separatist") Ukraine using Russian missiles. On the other hand, neither the Russians nor the "separatists" benefited from the shoot down, and neither had the means (control of Buk launchers in eastern Ukraine.)

Paul Craig Roberts has some excellent observations, at What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner? (Infowars.com) that are consistent with the above conclusions. Here a couple of excerpts:

One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.

This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington’s propaganda. The problem with the general’s explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory. The separatists have no aircraft. It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is of no military use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.

... the only conclusion is that the entire news cycle pertaining to the downing of the Malaysian airliner is orchestrated in order to lay the blame on Putin.

Let me restate what Roberts observes.

1. The "separatists" in the eastern Ukraine do not have airplanes and do not have high altitude anti-aircraft missiles. They have low altitude shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles, which they have been firing at aircraft of the Kiev government. The Kiev government does have high flying planes, and does have some high altitude Russian made Buk anti-aircraft missiles, and they had positioned and were operating those launchers in eastern Ukraine in the days prior to the downing of MH17. The Kiev government did not need these Buk missiles to fight the "separatists", because the "separatists" don't have planes. It would be folly in the extreme to place a high value weapon that is of no use to you against your enemy, but that might be of use to your enemy against you, in or near enemy or contested territory (unless your objective was something else).
2. The reaction of the US and its UK ally to the downing of MH17 was prepared ahead of time to blame Russia.
3. The beneficiaries of this downing were [a] Israel (moving their invasion of Gaza from being the primary and exclusive leading news article to being the second news event reported, after the downing of MH17), and [b] the US and its allies (garnering European and domestic support against Putin, and potentially even appearing as an act of war against Putin, trying to force him to respond with greater force.)

I find these points, especially my point (1) above, to be quite compelling.

[Jake]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Some interesting language in this interview...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6QOPOdstx-4

From one side of his lying mouth,, Kerry calls the separatists highly trained tactical troops, experts in surface to ground missile systems... Out of the other corner of his lying mouth,,, Kerry calls them 'literally drunken soldiers',, disrespecting dead bodies... Which is it, Kerry??? Drunk Russian Separatists,, or highly trained experts in surface to air missile systems??? If Kerry gave a damn about violence and death across border,,, he would openly condemn Israel and the genocide taking place in the middle east!! We are witnessing the many different heads of the beast... MSM is the propaganda arm of the 'War Machine',, the military industrial complex,, and its need to survive and grow... President Eisenhower tried to warn us....

Jake.

[Selene]

To return to the OP, speaking as a frequent traveller with more than my share of international flights, the real smoking gun is those pristine, unbent, unruffled boarding passes.

For an international flight, the security screening is repeated and extensive, even if you go directly from check-in to your gate. No way in hell a used boarding pass will look like those after several hours of being stuffed into a pocket or carryon, being repeatedly scanned, read, checked, handled, observed and security screened. And once you've boarded, that pass gets casually stuffed away into your pocket or carryon.

No way. Another rat squeals....

Regards,

Selene

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?

Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

[truth4me]

Well since people are catching on to false flags in America why not a Russian false flag? Seems they are getting ready to jump start WW3.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Jake (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Some interesting language in this interview...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6QOPOdstx-4

From one side of his lying mouth,, Kerry calls the separatists highly trained tactical troops, experts in surface to ground missile systems... Out of the other corner of his lying mouth,,, Kerry calls them 'literally drunken soldiers',, disrespecting dead bodies... Which is it, Kerry??? Drunk Russian Separatists,, or highly trained experts in surface to air missile systems??? If Kerry gave a damn about violence and death across border,,, he would openly condemn Israel and the genocide taking place in the middle east!! We are witnessing the many different heads of the beast... MSM is the propaganda arm of the 'War Machine',, the military industrial complex,, and its need to survive and grow... President Eisenhower tried to warn us....

Jake.

Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!

[joeecho]

.......... Deleted ..........

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!

Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).