Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Cidersomerset]

Here is the recent interview with the rebel leader.

I hope this questioner does some research from todays updates
and look at....



They must of heard of them by now. But I cannot
think of any mainstream journalists using the term.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)

Here is the recent interview with the rebel leader.

I hope this questioner does some research from todays updates
and look at....



They must of heard of them by now. But I cannot
think of any mainstream journalists using the term.

Quite possibly Russia may be resorting to the truth to a large degree instead of propaganda to defend itself this time?????

I do think they are being very careful and cautious though, quite possibly holding back a large amount of information.

[Cidersomerset]

Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)



Quote Here is the recent interview with the rebel leader.
I hope this questioner does some research from todays updates
and look at....



They must of heard of them by now. But I cannot
think of any mainstream journalists using the term. Quite possibly Russia may be resorting to the truth to a large degree instead of propaganda to defend itself this time?????

Oh Yes I like to stress Russia and China are still countries coming to terms from
their recent past and they have many problems. They have human rights and
other issues to deal with , and certain minorities are still oppressed.

We are supposed to be above that in the west, but sadly much of the myth of the
land of the free has given way to the lands of the watched.

But Russia and the Rebels have absolutely nothing to gain out of this, unless its
some gigantic double bluff. This has false flag all over it,

The US and EEC has been courting Ukraine for several years,to get it to lesson its
traditional ties with Russia.

Why ? It seems more than economic , someone is stirring the pot , because they
know this was a potential flash point area with the large ethnic Russian population.

It is certainly working and it will be difficult to resolve this without it escalating.
Which is what Kiev is trying to do.

Whether Kiev has done this off their own back ? Unlikely.

The fact that US space/drone was in the area monitoring the situation suggests
someone in the US or black ops or shadow government was involved or
knows more than they are saying.....

Just some observations.......

[Tesseract]

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
We're not discussing who actually shot the plane down. Just that this video from DHABOO7 is really really stupid.

Of course Russia has A LOT to lose from this event and it is a HUGE advantage for the western powers. But that has nothing to do with this utter nonsense passport story.

You guys keep asking where the passports were stored and why they weren't on the person.
Usually, when someone boards a plane they don't need the passport until landing and they have 3 options:
- hold it in their hand (as someone here said the case should have been) for x hours until reaching the destination
- put it in your pocket - I don't believe many people like this as a passport is very uncomfortable in your jeans/pants pockets and also there tends to be a fear of damaging it (how ironic) because it is regarded as precious, and if it's damaged you have to go through the nasty process of reissuing one. a damaged passport can be rejected at customs!
- put it in a convenient compartment in your purse/bag/backpack/manpurse/small luggage - which you store in the overhead compartment or next to you on your seat.

I personally believe a great percentage of the passangers choose the 3rd option (based on what I have always done when flying or what I have observed other family/friends/people around me) and also based on PURE LOGIC.

So, when a plane breaks apart in the air, some of these storage options will begin to fall to the ground.

these "bags" will not be obliterated when they hit the ground because air friction increases with speed and when friction balances with the down force (mass times gravitation acceleration) the speed stabilizes. I don't think a backpack or purse would actually have a greater speed hitting the ground when thrown from 10000 meters or from the 10th floor. Is it really necessary to do this test? I'm actually considering placing my old passport in a pocket of my backpack so that we can see how much it is damaged when thrown out a window at the 10th floor. I bet the air speed stabilizes at around half way down.

I'll attach new photos from the crash site showing almost INTACT luggage. But I'll be accused again of posting fake photos, even if similar footage was also taken by the rebels or russian media. Any passport kept in a pocket of these bags would have probably suffered almost no damage

This discussion is getting really ridiculous and I'm amazed that it had to go this far...

I have absolutely no issue with the idea that a passport could easily survive unscathed in luggage, or even in a person's pocket. I remember the shock-resistant suitcases they used to pack video cameras in at my old school - they were meant to literally allow the camera to survive being dropped from an airplane - not 100% sure that would be the case, but a passport is a small, compact, non-fragile object. Of course it would be damaged if it went into a burning area, but lying flat in a piece of luggage - or someones pocket, I can see it surviving pretty well - not all the time, but at least some of the time. Personally, I either put my passport in my chest pocket, or in my hand luggage. Not saying we shouldn't record this observation - but let's not jump to conclusions..

[SilentFeathers]

This is quite the predictable response, back and forth, back and forth, blah blah blah.

Ukraine rebuts Russia, says no warplanes near Malaysian flight

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on Monday denied Russia's assertion that a Ukrainian warplane was flying near the downed Malaysian airliner last week, saying Ukrainian planes in the area were on the ground at the time of the crash.

In response to Russian Defense Ministry's statement earlier on Monday that a Ukrainian military plane flew within 3 to 5 km of the Malaysian plane at the time it was downed, Poroshenko told CNN: "My immediate reaction - this is not true."

He said Ukraine was open to any investigation about its planes and that the Russians should provide evidence for such a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0PW1HO20140721

[Sidney]

Posted by Tesseract (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
We're not discussing who actually shot the plane down. Just that this video from DHABOO7 is really really stupid.

Of course Russia has A LOT to lose from this event and it is a HUGE advantage for the western powers. But that has nothing to do with this utter nonsense passport story.

You guys keep asking where the passports were stored and why they weren't on the person.
Usually, when someone boards a plane they don't need the passport until landing and they have 3 options:
- hold it in their hand (as someone here said the case should have been) for x hours until reaching the destination
- put it in your pocket - I don't believe many people like this as a passport is very uncomfortable in your jeans/pants pockets and also there tends to be a fear of damaging it (how ironic) because it is regarded as precious, and if it's damaged you have to go through the nasty process of reissuing one. a damaged passport can be rejected at customs!
- put it in a convenient compartment in your purse/bag/backpack/manpurse/small luggage - which you store in the overhead compartment or next to you on your seat.

I personally believe a great percentage of the passangers choose the 3rd option (based on what I have always done when flying or what I have observed other family/friends/people around me) and also based on PURE LOGIC.

So, when a plane breaks apart in the air, some of these storage options will begin to fall to the ground.

these "bags" will not be obliterated when they hit the ground because air friction increases with speed and when friction balances with the down force (mass times gravitation acceleration) the speed stabilizes. I don't think a backpack or purse would actually have a greater speed hitting the ground when thrown from 10000 meters or from the 10th floor. Is it really necessary to do this test? I'm actually considering placing my old passport in a pocket of my backpack so that we can see how much it is damaged when thrown out a window at the 10th floor. I bet the air speed stabilizes at around half way down.

I'll attach new photos from the crash site showing almost INTACT luggage. But I'll be accused again of posting fake photos, even if similar footage was also taken by the rebels or russian media. Any passport kept in a pocket of these bags would have probably suffered almost no damage

This discussion is getting really ridiculous and I'm amazed that it had to go this far...

I have absolutely no issue with the idea that a passport could easily survive unscathed in luggage, or even in a person's pocket. I remember the shock-resistant suitcases they used to pack video cameras in at my old school - they were meant to literally allow the camera to survive being dropped from an airplane - not 100% sure that would be the case, but a passport is a small, compact, non-fragile object. Of course it would be damaged if it went into a burning area, but lying flat in a piece of luggage - or someones pocket, I can see it surviving pretty well - not all the time, but at least some of the time. Personally, I either put my passport in my chest pocket, or in my hand luggage. Not saying we shouldn't record this observation - but let's not jump to conclusions..

I think the last 6 words of that video are fairly Damning. quote "There's no one here to investigate".

And That wallet, not a scratch on it. Seriously??

[Cidersomerset]

This is quite the predictable response, back and forth, back and forth, blah blah blah.




Quote Ukraine rebuts Russia, says no warplanes near Malaysian flight

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko on Monday denied Russia's assertion that a Ukrainian warplane was flying near the downed Malaysian airliner last week, saying Ukrainian planes in the area were on the ground at the time of the crash.

In response to Russian Defense Ministry's statement earlier on Monday that a Ukrainian military plane flew within 3 to 5 km of the Malaysian plane at the time it was downed, Poroshenko told CNN: "My immediate reaction - this is not true."

He said Ukraine was open to any investigation about its planes and that the Russians should provide evidence for such a statement.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0PW1HO20140721

From above article.......Exactly what Kiev wants to be a 'NATO Musketeer'

'All for one and one for All'......Then WW3 or another cold war could develop.


According to a transcript of the interview posted on his website, Poroshenko
also aired the idea of asking the United States to grant Ukraine a special
status as a so-called Major Non-NATO Ally, the same status now enjoyed
by Israel, Egypt and Australia.

Any beefing up of ties between Kiev and Washington is all but certain to
upset Moscow, which sees the former Soviet bloc as its special sphere of
influence. (Reporting by David Storey, additional reporting by Gabriela
Baczynska in Kiev,; Writing by Susan Heavey; Editing by Doina Chiacu, Larry King)

[Operator]

Oh man I wonder if these clowns are able to keep their act together ...
If it wasn't so serious it would almost seem like a joke:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/m...usland___.html

U.S. and Britain against French ships to Russia
LONDON -

The United States and Britain against the delivery of warships from France to Russia. That the countries Monday to know.

A senior U.S. official told Reuters that U.S. against the delivery of the vessels of the Mistral. Earlier, British Prime Minister David Cameron said that all EU countries have decided to deliver. No military equipment to Russia

The reason is the attitude of Russia in the plane crash in eastern Ukraine. According to Cameron, there is ample evidence that the plane of Malaysia Airlines by pro-Russian separatists shot down.

Russia has ordered the Navy in 2011 in France, two amphibious assault ships of the Mistral type. Paris wants to continue the supply so far. It involves an amount of 1.2 billion euros. Last month, came about 400 Russians in the western French port of Saint-Nazare to cope with the ships.
unthinkable

Cameron called it inconceivable that would deliver. Britons in the current circumstances warships to Russia He said that the EU should take against the minions of Russian President Vladimir Putin and the oligarchs who support him. Sanctions

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said doubtful whether France will withdraw the order. "It involves billions of euros. The French are very pragmatic. The suspension of the deal would cause Russia (much) less damage than France, "he said.

Crappy translation by Google

They stage shootings to provoke gun control laws. So what's next ... are they now
going to promote banning international arms deals ? That would be a first.

They are creating more and more problems for themselves ... I would not be surprised
if one day this whole thing blows up in their face.

This will keep going on until the masses is forced to wake up. Unfortunately it will keep
making lots of casualties until then. I gave up spending too much energy on this.

[SilentFeathers]

I'm wasting too much energy on this too, now it's up to the mindless minds around the planet to figure out what is really going on.

Time for me to exit from PA again fer awhile, peace ya'all

[GoodETxSG]

Each thread is different in how it evolves so unless the OP or a Moderator step in and the main over all topic is the same new threads don't usually spring up unless there are differences.

I think situations where people speak and think outside of the box "Intelligently and with Experience" it can be educational for all as long as it doe's not disrespect other members. But like I said each Thread kind of seems to evolve on its own.

If the OP makes a request with their thread or Moderator makes a suggestion or splits off a thread then that is that. Period

If a Thread Troll, Bully, Hijacker or Nazi decides that the subject is limited and decides what is relevant and what isn't that is not okay.

If it has been decided that ABHOO7, his history, the view of their video channel on You Tube and relevance of the passports and their conditions when located are the ONLY confines of thread that are relevant... and all other related information is completely off topic by anyone other than the OP or a Moderator we have a problem.

I love Avalon... This is a place for open discussion and idea's and if you find an opportunity to learn do so, an opportunity to teach do so but mostly just observe if you are wise. IMHO... Be "Service to Others" especially if you have been a part of the problem in your history and have an obligation to serve.

If the case is that we would have dual threads we could just end up with basically the same conclusions based on which "Pot of Disinfo" each person has invested themselves in and which of the groups they have sided with Internationally.

It's disappointing some times... We as a "People" are so manipulated and coerced into rubbing each other the wrong way. "People" as groups are reactionary, dumb, prone to panic and rush around like a flock of geese.



A "Person" has the ability to quiet their mind and listen to their environment and intentionally grow their consciousness or practice RV (Become NON "Reactional").

Posted by Centauri (here)
I did go off topic there! I get ahead of myself sometimes. Maybe I should pose that question to all in a new thread.

[naste.de.lumina]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I'm wasting too much energy on this too, now it's up to the mindless minds around the planet to figure out what is really going on.

Time for me to exit from PA again fer awhile, peace ya'all

Additional insight has generated a new frequency.

Thank you.

Naste.

[Selene]

Zamolxe and airaspect let’s be clear here, (I see you are a tag team so please allow me to address you together): we are not dealing with 100% certainties when looking at the evidence here. We can only evaluate the probabilities: what are the odds that.....? And accumulate these.

And when you get a cluster of anomalies occurring together, metadata.... this is where any good investigator starts to pay attention. Because the odds against that cluster as “pure chance” rapidly start to multiply exponentially. The math starts to lead you in the direction of truth. There is ‘something else’ going on; your prior picture of reality needs revision.

Think clearly; add it up; don’t drive yourselves – and readers - to a preconceived conclusion or share your own emotional reaction as a final answer without supporting data. Or call BS on something you might not actually understand. Sorry, but can’t phrase it any other way.

Dahboo is good intel as intel goes, in the opinion of many. He thinks. He may become compromised at some point, but right now he’s a pretty good channel. Please learn about intel signals (see all GoodeTXSG's posts above) before pursuing this passport thread further. Fail. Sorry. Presumably, you’ve been at Avalon long enough to know how we think here. It’s one thing to say ‘meh’ and have good reasons, but.... Please, you need to put your thinking caps on. I don’t mean to shut down discussion, only to elevate it to a reasonable Avalonian standard.

And consider that you might just possibly be in over your head on this. Nothing wrong with that. But gentle advice: not wise to swim at the deep end of the pool without first learning how to stay afloat, as it were.

Sorry to sound so abrupt, my bad. But. In intel-speak, some of what’s been posted is what’s called “blowing smoke”.... Heh. Heh. Sign of shilling....Heh. Heh.

Regards,

Selene

[Azt]

Right on

These passports are bull****e of the highest order.

Haven`t we see this before on 9/11 ? Come on , it is the same old tactics .... that I am not be falling for again.

[Roisin]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)

Quote Posted by Cidersomerset (here)



Quote Here is the recent interview with the rebel leader.
I hope this questioner does some research from todays updates
and look at....



They must of heard of them by now. But I cannot
think of any mainstream journalists using the term. Quite possibly Russia may be resorting to the truth to a large degree instead of propaganda to defend itself this time?????

Oh Yes I like to stress Russia and China are still countries coming to terms from
their recent past and they have many problems. They have human rights and
other issues to deal with , and certain minorities are still oppressed.

We are supposed to be above that in the west, but sadly much of the myth of the
land of the free has given way to the lands of the watched.

But Russia and the Rebels have absolutely nothing to gain out of this, unless its
some gigantic double bluff. This has false flag all over it,

The US and EEC has been courting Ukraine for several years,to get it to lesson its
traditional ties with Russia.

Why ? It seems more than economic , someone is stirring the pot , because they
know this was a potential flash point area with the large ethnic Russian population.

It is certainly working and it will be difficult to resolve this without it escalating.
Which is what Kiev is trying to do.

Whether Kiev has done this off their own back ? Unlikely.

The fact that US space/drone was in the area monitoring the situation suggests
someone in the US or black ops or shadow government was involved or
knows more than they are saying.....

Just some observations.......

It's been described as an experimental satellite and it was conveniently over the area where this plane was shot down.

Here's an interesting article wrt to that satellite that's already been posted here but am posting it again.

WHISTLEBLOWER: U.S. SATELLITE IMAGES SHOW UKRAINIAN TROOPS SHOOTING DOWN MH17
Source tells award winning reporter Washington lying about responsibility for tragedy

Award winning former Associated Press reporter Robert Parry has been told by an intelligence source that the United States is in possession of satellite imagery which shows that Ukrainian troops were responsible for the shoot down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17.

In the absence of any proper investigation, media rhetoric over the last few days has firmly pointed the finger of blame for the downing of the aircraft on Russian-backed Ukrainian rebels, but Parry’s source tells a different story.

What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

Although the establishment press has attempted to deride any questioning of the official narrative that Ukrainian rebels were responsible for the incident by invoking the tired “conspiracy theory” pejorative, Parry can hardly be dismissed as a crank given his key role in covering the Iran-Contra scandal for the Associated Press and Newsweek. Indeed, Parry’s investigative work on intelligence matters, for which he was awarded the George Polk Award, suggests that the information provided by his source is worthy of serious attention...

http://www.infowars.com/whistleblowe...ing-down-mh17/

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=CR5HtzbMy-E

In my view, regardless if Obama and co. know, based on hard core evidence, that it was Ukraine and not the rebels who shot down that plane, they are not going to bother to reveal that to the public because they have too much to gain by pointing the finger at Putin instead. So we will never see those satellite images ... at least not the real ones.

They've politicized that incident so it's not about finding the truth about the issue at hand but more about spinning it in such a way that it benefits their own ongoing agenda. A very Machiavellian approach but this, I believe, is what we are dealing with.

[ThePythonicCow]

As I just posted in this separate thread: RussiaToday (rt.com) website seems to be down (July 21, 2014)



===

Update: some 10 or 20 minutes after I first noticed rt.com was down, it is back on the air web.

[Tesseract]

State department were grilled over the Russian claims today. This video of the press conference is simply embarrassing. This is the mentality of the people running the USA. The spokesperson, Marie Harf, talks about the need to investigate the conclusions she and the US Government have already made. She says the Russian's have no credibility and are a propaganda outlet (she obviously forgets about John Kerry regurgitating the fake Jew-registration leaflet). And, excuse me, madam, but you are meant to investigate first, then make the conclusions. Thankfully there were some very pressing journalists in the room who wouldn't let it go.

If you are in this thread, you will definitely value watching this video. Gets better and better as you approach the 10 minute mark and beyond.

http://video.state.gov/en/video/3689427911001

If anyone knows how to embed this, please let me know.

[Zionbrion]

Just now on CNN an RT journalist quit RT due to their coverage of MH17...they did an interview with her that was very vauge about how their coverage was biased and in favor of Russia. I dont always agree with RT but still I think they have had some of the most unbiased coverage of MH17...makes me wonder how much she was payed to quit and give testimomy on MMS

[Pris]

Posted by Agape (here)

Posted by jackovesk (here)
Wrap your head around this MSM Story...

...........................

MH17 conspiracy theories: What happened to downed Malaysia Airlines plane?



The INFOWAR

It really is (US vs THEM) isn't it...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/t...racy-theories/


Hair rising challenge between the Washington Post and the Project Avalon forum, who has more news ...


It's US and THEM . Lets make peace ...


Eternal hmmmm

Peace is all we want people ..

Ughh. That article makes me feel ill. Here's another conspiracy theory for them: since we can always expect them to tell us fiction as fact, then one of the 'conspiracy theories' in this article may actually be what happened to MH17.

They like to hide the truth in plain sight, because apparently, we're all just a bunch of idiots, right?

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Zionbrion (here)
Just now on CNN an RT journalist quit RT due to their coverage of MH17...they did an interview with her that was very vauge about how their coverage was biased and in favor of Russia. I dont always agree with RT but still I think they have had some of the most unbiased coverage of MH17...makes me wonder how much she was payed to quit and give testimomy on MMS

Russian Television Under Spotlight After Malaysia Airlines Crash in Ukraine

Harrassing and demonizing RT is the State dept's way of responding to the Russian response and challenge earlier today lol!

PS: yeah, I haven't logged off Avalon yet

[Zionbrion]

Posted by Tesseract (here)
State department were grilled over the Russian claims today. This video of the press conference is simply embarrassing. This is the mentality of the people running the USA. The spokesperson, Marie Harf, talks about the need to investigate the conclusions she and the US Government have already made. She says the Russian's have no credibility and are a propaganda outlet (she obviously forgets about John Kerry regurgitating the fake Jew-registration leaflet). And, excuse me, madam, but you are meant to investigate first, then make the conclusions. Thankfully there were some very pressing journalists in the room who wouldn't let it go.

If you are in this thread, you will definitely value watching this video. Gets better and better as you approach the 10 minute mark and beyond.

http://video.state.gov/en/video/3689427911001

If anyone knows how to embed this, please let me know.

OMG that was was driving me crazy with her brainwashed double-speak. Im sure glad she was getting grilled.