Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Tesseract]

Some people are asserting that the Su-25 can not fly high enough to attack a 777. This youtube video (Russian), which appears to have been uploaded before the disaster, claims that the Su-25 can indeed fly to 10000 m. I give a translation of that little snippet in a screen grab.



And the video itself, published on 21st of June 2014:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OR1fY0TAHz8

Same info is here:

http://uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmic...hnika/84-cy-25

[KiwiElf]

Not to worry - Caitlin's WP article follows a typical debunking pattern - pick the most exaggerated claims and make fun of them. MSM is fighting a losing battle

[KiwiElf]

Service (maximum) ceiling of a Sukhoi Su-25 is 7,000 m (22,965 ft) clean, 5,000 m (16,000 ft) with max weapons (however, sources don't indicate service ceiling of weaponry).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/

According to Sukhoi's own web page (second link), 7 km = 22,965.81 feet (7,000 metres)

[Pris]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Not to worry - Caitlin's WP article follows a typical debunking pattern - pick the most exaggerated claims and make fun of them. MSM is fighting a losing battle

Hehe are they really all that exaggerated?

The part where they mention aliens and a space vortex is supposed to completely humiliate and defeat us. Tsk tsk that's not very nice. Perhaps we need to look closer at the MH370 theory again.

[Tesseract]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes

Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Service (maximum) ceiling of a Sukhoi Su-25 is 7,000 m (22,965 ft) clean, 5,000 m (16,000 ft) with max weapons (however, sources don't indicate service ceiling of weaponry).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/

According to Sukhoi's own web page (second link), 7 km = 22,965.81 feet (7,000 metres)

Bizarrely, the banner image on the Sukhoi site appears to show a fighter jet shooting down an airliner..

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Tesseract (here)

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes

Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Service (maximum) ceiling of a Sukhoi Su-25 is 7,000 m (22,965 ft) clean, 5,000 m (16,000 ft) with max weapons (however, sources don't indicate service ceiling of weaponry).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/

According to Sukhoi's own web page (second link), 7 km = 22,965.81 feet (7,000 metres)

Bizarrely, the banner image on the Sukhoi site appears to show a fighter jet shooting down an airliner..

We artists like to depict the motion of vehicles with a sort of "vapour trail" behind when using static images, but Sukhoi's illustration header could be taken as that haha! (we call that "unfortunate positioning")

[Cidersomerset]

Russia offers potential evidence of Ukrainian role in MH17 tragedy

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=X_79NQbjHTI

Published on 21 Jul 2014


Russia is hitting back at allegations by the West that Eastern Ukrainian militias are responsible
for the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. In a televised presentation Monday, Russian
defense officials offered evidence of Ukrainian "BUK" missiles systems in the region where the
plane was downed. Also presented was radar data they believe shows a Ukrainian jet fighter
closely tailing MH17 before it crashed near Donetsk. RT's Marina Kosareva has more details on
the new information provided by the Russian military.

[Cidersomerset]

Rebels turn over MH17 black boxes, victims' bodies

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Qs7QDfuhy9g

Published on 21 Jul 2014


Eastern Ukrainian rebel leaders Monday evening turned over to international
investigators the black boxes belonging to downed Malaysian Airlines flight MH17.
The move came shortly after the bodies of the victims were handed over and placed
onto a train that will travel to the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. A reported 298
individuals were on board the aircraft when it was reportedly shot down Thursday
over the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine. After reaching Kharkiv, the victims'
remains will be transported to the Netherlands and other countries. RT's Roman
Kosarev reports from the Donetsk region with more details.





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

US, Russia trade barbs at UN Security Council

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=acTkOjT9jEw

Published on 21 Jul 2014


Despite several tense moments between the US and Russian ambassadors,
the UN Security Council unanimously adopted a resolution Monday demanding
unfettered access to the crash site of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Drafted by
Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, the resolution calls for militias in
Eastern Ukraine to provide international investigators with secure access to
the site, while also demanding that the wreckage remain unhampered with.
RT's Marina Portnaya reports from New York with more details.

[panopticon]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Russia offers potential evidence of Ukrainian role in MH17 tragedy

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=X_79NQbjHTI

Published on 21 Jul 2014


Russia is hitting back at allegations by the West that Eastern Ukrainian militias are responsible
for the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. In a televised presentation Monday, Russian
defense officials offered evidence of Ukrainian "BUK" missiles systems in the region where the
plane was downed. Also presented was radar data they believe shows a Ukrainian jet fighter
closely tailing MH17 before it crashed near Donetsk. RT's Marina Kosareva has more details on
the new information provided by the Russian military.

Don't know if already posted:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=KSpeo5RcQQo

-- Pan

Apologies, I see it has been. I can only track one major event at a time and the one I'm tracking at the moment is on-going.

Thank you to everyone in this thread that has supplied information (and from that an approximate time line for that information) that we can all go back over as time permits.

It is very much appreciated.

[jackovesk]

Posted by jackovesk (here)

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
A presentation to the press of the situation as seen by the Russian Defence force.
It is interesting and they ask questions of Kiev and the US as they go along.
The interpretor has a strong accent and some words are hard to hear. Near
the end they talk about a US spy ? ( could not understand ) some sort of
experimental space surveillance devise to detect missile launches amongst
other thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airlines plane crash: Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine (FULL)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs

Published on 21 Jul 2014


The Russian Defense Ministry holds a press conference on the details of MH17 crash in
eastern Ukraine. Defense Ministry reports that on the day of the catastrophe, a Ukrainian
SU-25 fighter jet gaining height towards the Boeing 777. Calling for Kiev to explain why
the fighter jet was tracking the airplane.

MUST WATCH if you've been following this Thread..!!!

WoW...

(WELL-WELL-WELL) what do we have here...

We have the MSM acknowledging the Story...

........................................

Ukrainian military jet was flying near MH17 when it was shot down: Russia

4 hours ago July 22, 2014


Russia’s high-ranking military officials Lt-Gen Andrei Kartopolov and Lt-Gen Igor Makushev speak with journalists in front of a map of the air traffic situation in the area of Donetsk during a briefing on Malaysian plane crash yesterday. Picture: AFP Photo/Dmitry Serebryakov Source: AFP

RUSSIA has provided an explosive alternative explanation of how Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 went down.

Speaking to the media, a high-ranking Russian military official implied that a Ukrainian fighter jet could be responsible for the disaster, not pro-Russian separatists.

The US claims its intelligence shows a ground-to-air missile launched from territory held by pro-Russian rebels brought the plane down on Thursday.

But Lieutenant-General Andrei Kartopolov said Russian flight records showed a Ukrainian military jet was flying just a few kilometres away from the Malaysia Airlines flight at the time it went down, The Independent reports.


Russia provides a briefing to journalists to provide its explanation of events surrounding flight MH17. Picture: AFP Photo/Dmitry Serebryakov Source: AFP

The military aircraft, a SU-25, flew within three to five kilometres of the Boeing 777, according to Lt-Gen Kartopolov, and he went on to imply that it shot MH17 down.

He said SU-25s “can briefly climb up to 10,000m (and are) regularly equipped with air-to-air missiles R-60 that can capture and destroy targets of a distance up to 12km and up to 5km as guaranteed”.

Lt-Gen Kartopolov said the Russian Defence Ministry wanted to know “why the military jet was flying along (the same civil aviation lines) at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane”.

He denied allegations that Russia had provided the pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine with Buk missile launchers.



Lt-Gen Andrei Kartopolov speaks to the media. Picture: AFP Photo/AFPTV Source: AFP

He said Russia had evidence that Ukraine had stationed self-propelled, anti-aircraft Buk missile launchers near the rebel-held territory.

The military officials displayed slides, charts and images to illustrate their claims at the special air force briefing in Moscow. You can watch the full press conference here on YouTube.

Russia also called on the US to publish for public scrutiny the intelligence it had that showed the rebels were behind the attack.

The Ukraine Government, meanwhile, said it had photo and video evidence of how a Russian anti-aircraft missile system was moved across the territory controlled by Russian-backed militants.

Two hundred and ninety-eight people perished in when MH17 was brought down on Thursday.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...-1226997531113

PS - Picked yourself off the floor yet...

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

New report from VT: This has satellite images that I have not see elsewhere:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07...proached-mh17/

Click above for full report.

Here are the images: (explanations in link above)

[Zamolxe]

Posted by Azt (here)
Right on

These passports are bull****e of the highest order.

Haven`t we see this before on 9/11 ? Come on , it is the same old tactics .... that I am not be falling for again.

How does this have anything to do with the 9/11 BS passports?

9/11: the whole plane impacted the tower and caught fire instantly. the passports were found out of luggage on the ground - impossible

here: the plane broke into separate pieces in the air, debris fell from the sky, the only part of the plane that caught fire was the part with the fuel, igniting on impact with the ground. the rest of the plane that hit the ground in the 15km wide area did not ignite. the passports were taken from inside luggage that either fell from the sky, either was in the parts of the plane that did not ignite

What led you to consider that these events could be in any way compared?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Key Piece of Video “Evidence” for Russian Responsibility for Malaysian Plane Shootdown Debunked

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/...-debunked.html

Video of Rebel Buk Launchers Headed Back to Russia? No – Images From Ukraine-Held Territory Since May

Mish is a highly-respected financial blogger. His Global Economic Analysis site routinely wins awards such as:

New York Times: NYT 10th Annual Year in Ideas – #1 Idea of the Year ‘Do-It-Yourself Macroeconomics’
Time Magazine: Best 25 Financial Blogs
Bloomberg: Financial Blogs: The Best of the Bunch
CNBC: Best Alternative Financial Websites
One of Mish’s trademarks is to speak with knowledgeable people in various subject areas, and report on what they said.

Today, Mish debunked one of the main pieces of video “evidence” claimed by the mainstream media to prove that Russia was behind the shootdown of the Malaysian plane over Ukraine:

Jacob Dreizin, a US citizen who speaks Russian and reads Ukrainian provided this update three hours ago.

Hello Mish,

On Friday, the Daily Mail, one of the major UK tabloids carried photos and video of what was alleged to be a rebel “Buk” launcher heading back to Russia. The article carried a claim from some Ukrainian source that the launcher was missing several missiles after having shot them at the Malaysian 777. The article was prominently linked to the Drudge Report, and so was probably viewed by several million people.

Today, this meme made it into Uncle Sam’s official narrative, as per the following New York Times excerpt:

On the CBS program “Face the Nation,” Mr. Kerry referred to a video that the Ukrainians have made public showing an SA-11 unit heading back to Russia after the downing of the plane with “a missing missile or so.”

The video referenced by the New York Times was, in fact, posted on the Facebook account of the Ukrainian Interior Minister. The allegation was that the launcher was crossing the border with Russia.

However, going by the billboard and other features of the scenery, Russian bloggers and news sources claim to have identified the road in the video as having been taken in or near the town of Krasnoarmeisk (“Krasnoarmiysk” in Ukrainian), which has been under Kiev’s control since May.

In fact, the billboard is supposedly advertising a Krasnoarmeisk car dealership. Also, one of the structures in the background is said to be a construction materials store on Gorkii Street, Krasnoarmeisk.

Please note that this town is (very roughly) 120 kilometers from the Russian border and 80 kilometers from where the Malaysian 777 went down. And again, it has been under Kiev’s control since May.

At least one other clip of the “Russian Buk” that has been made available also suggests that the Ukrainians are showing their own equipment. I’m still working on researching that one for you.

Jacob

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PsbC8yDeGUw

What possible reason could the rebels or Russia have to try and provoke NATO into a conflict they are in the process of winning?

[airaspect]

Posted by Selene (here)
Zamolxe and airaspect let’s be clear here, (I see you are a tag team so please allow me to address you together): we are not dealing with 100% certainties when looking at the evidence here. We can only evaluate the probabilities: what are the odds that.....? And accumulate these.

And when you get a cluster of anomalies occurring together, metadata.... this is where any good investigator starts to pay attention. Because the odds against that cluster as “pure chance” rapidly start to multiply exponentially. The math starts to lead you in the direction of truth. There is ‘something else’ going on; your prior picture of reality needs revision.

Nicely written, smooth generalities. Good read. I completely agree.

But how does that relate to our topic. Because there are no cluster anomalies so far. Unless You can point them out.

Posted by Selene (here)
Think clearly; add it up; don’t drive yourselves – and readers - to a preconceived conclusion or share your own emotional reaction as a final answer without supporting data.

The person that makes a claim is supposed to put forward supporting data, not the guys that call it BS.
And relating to emotional reaction is not only uncalled for, it also doesn't make OP and following arguments any more valid.

Posted by Selene (here)
Or call BS on something you might not actually understand. Sorry, but can’t phrase it any other way.

You make it sound like it's rocket science. It's really not.

Posted by Selene (here)
Dahboo is good intel as intel goes, in the opinion of many. He thinks. He may become compromised at some point, but right now he’s a pretty good channel. Please learn about intel signals (see all GoodeTXSG's posts above) before pursuing this passport thread further. Fail. Sorry. Presumably, you’ve been at Avalon long enough to know how we think here. It’s one thing to say ‘meh’ and have good reasons, but.... Please, you need to put your thinking caps on. I don’t mean to shut down discussion, only to elevate it to a reasonable Avalonian standard.

Should I accept a video, because it was made by a guy considered by many a good intel ? Or should I should discern the evidence itself with due diligence. Real arguments can defend themselves without the need of praising whoever made them.

Posted by Selene (here)
And consider that you might just possibly be in over your head on this. Nothing wrong with that. But gentle advice: not wise to swim at the deep end of the pool without first learning how to stay afloat, as it were.

Let’s hope that advice won’t become an Avalonian standard.


I do not doubt Your intentions are sincere, Selene. But please consider this.

After reading Your post I still have no idea which facts You believe to be true, what conclusions You draw from them, what counter-arguments You believe to be false, and why. I believe we would benefit much more from that kind of discussion.

Instead, You tried to belittle us, and to pose yourself as a herald of Avalon way of thinking, as means to support your view. These are precisely the things that are of no value and have no place in any real discussion.

As You pointed out I've been with Avalon for a quite some time. One of the things I've noticed is that there is a danger in dealing with the subjects dealt with here. After some time a notion appears to interpret all considerable events as part of a greater scheme of TPTB. Even without enough evidence to support that it is. And that is a dangerous notion that I will oppose, because otherwise we might lose touch with reality and it will become more of an obsession. AND that is how you will be perceived by the public that you try to educate on the subject.

Was shooting down the airplane part of something bigger and more malicious ? It sure is plausible, and I’ll be the first one to admit it - once new evidence surfaces. So far there is not enough.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

What are the chances of this being announced today in the UK. Any comments?

The Government is to announce there will be a public inquiry into the death of the former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko.

The ex KGB officer was poisoned by a cup of tea laced with the deadly radioactive element polonium 210 during a meeting at a London hotel in 2006 with two former Russian agents. He died three weeks later.

His widow, Marina has fought for a public inquiry into his death ever since but the Government refused on the grounds it wanted to wait for the outcome of an inquest.

However, the High Court ruled in February the Home Secretary should reconsider and Sky News understands Theresa May will be making the announcement in a written statement later on Tuesday.

The Litvinenko affair has caused significant diplomatic ructions between Britain and Russia. Police have asked for the arrests of two prime suspects, Andrei Lugovoi and Dmitri Kovtun, but the Kremlin has refused.

The announcement of an inquiry could not come at a worse time for Britain's increasingly frayed relationship with Russia as tensions between the two countries intensify over Vladimir Putin's handling of the Ukraine air disaster.

However, the Government had run out of time to make the announcement - kept low key in a written statement- because Parliament breaks up for the summer today.

Mr Litvinenko fled Russia in 2000 and was granted asylum in Britain. His widow claims he was working for MI6 at the time of his death.

Last year Sir Robert Owen, who is conducting the inquest, said he could not hold a "fair and fearless" investigation into Mr Litvinenko's death because the Government refused to release information on Russian and British intelligence involvement

.

http://news.sky.com/story/1305335/li...iry-to-be-held

¤=[Post Update]=¤



Just found this video.

Please download now if you want



Smoke trails in sky or telephone wires? Any help? (ignore thumnail youtube freezefame - its a different video)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4yFgLI7X97k

[GoodETxSG]

The Western "Story" that the E. UK Rebel's shot down that plane is falling apart faster than the supporters can back stop evidence. As off topic as this may be from the Passport part of the puzzle and the controversial video's from the infamous ABHOO7. If people are still buying this official "Story" (Before Forensic's were Introduced) they are literally hooked up to the Kool Aid tank via an "IV drip"... At the least... It's falling apart.


Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity (LEFT OUT OF WESTERN REPORTS)
http://www.blacklistednews.com/Russi...38/38/Y/M.html
Posted: 20 Jul 2014 10:00 PM PDT
Ukraine hasn’t said how it immediately knew rebels downed Malaysian plane, notes the Russian Foreign Ministry, as it unveils 10 awkward questions for Ukraine (and perhaps the US 'snap judgment') to answer about the MH17 disaster.

WHISTLEBLOWER: U.S. SATELLITE IMAGES SHOW UKRAINIAN TROOPS SHOOTING DOWN MH17
http://www.blacklistednews.com/WHIST...38/38/Y/M.html
Posted: 20 Jul 2014 10:00 PM PDT
The U.S. media’s Ukraine bias has been obvious, siding with the Kiev regime and bashing ethnic Russian rebels and Russia’s President Putin. But now – with the scramble to blame Putin for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down – the shoddy journalism has grown truly dangerous, says Robert Parry.

[Christine]

Good morning .. I don't want to divert this thread's topic but feel I am called to ask those of you who will to look beyond the smoke and mirrors for a moment. As has been noted one of the very possible ploys of this "crash" was to divert the world's eyes from the Gaza strip and the killing fields there.

If you haven't seen this video please take a moment to listen with your hearts and your minds.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8hqQMhDvppk

And please jump over to this post and thread started by Realeyes.

It is necessary that we make our PRESENCE felt in some very REAL ways!

This MOMENT is not about the Palestinian people or Hamas.. this moment is about ALL of US.. PEACE will only COME as WE BEcome the emanating force that IS PEACE.

OUR very EARTH is asking us to focus intent.. where we are needed most. Words are not enough, it is time that as HUMAN BEINGS we make our PRESENCE KNOWN. So where are all the people walking hand in hand and sitting in civil disobedience?

The only Real question a person can ask is WHAT AM I DOING? My passion is focused on PEACE, real COMPASSION is KNOWING that everyone of those who are slaughtered are part of me.

[Hervé]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

How misdirections keep about everyone busy down labyrinths with no exits:

Who said it was a BUK missile?

Any evidence for it beside unsubstantiated assertions?

[...]

The story of the disaster of the Malaysian Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, acquires more and more new details
[...]
Author: Dmitry Litovkin
http://www.vzglyad.ru/society/2014/7/20/696411.html
[...]
Judging by the damaged remains of the Boeing 777, the expert concludes that the aircraft was fired upon by missiles from jet fighters.
[...]

Full article: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...gi?read=312787

Full view:

[...]

... which quenched my suspicion that the first picture above might not have been from the downed MH17.

However these pictures point to another question since it seems that the projectiles are the wrong way to:

... they seem to be coming from the fuselage...

... that raises the question of a bomb inside that plane...

That would make more sense than to leave it to drunken knuckleheads having a vague notion of what they are supposed to be doing and because this is a false flag event as ascertained by MSM outcries and pointing fingers before any data could be analyzed.

Any projectile-impacts expert(s) around?

More impact holes:

Wreckage Offers Clues on Why Flight 17 Went Down

Photographs of a piece of wreckage found by two reporters for The New York Times and analyzed by Reed Foster, a defense analyst with IHS Jane’s, offers some clues about what could have caused Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 to crash. While it is impossible from the photographs to determine that a specific missile was used, Mr. Foster said, the damage is consistent with the effects of a fragmentary warhead carried by an SA-11, the type of missile that American officials have said was most likely behind the attack.

JULY 21, 2014 Related Article

UKRAINE

Analysis: The shrapnel came from outside the plane.

Mr. Foster said the contour of the aluminum and the blistering of the paint around many of the holes indicate that small pieces of high-velocity shrapnel entered the aircraft externally. Mr. Foster said the two most likely causes were an engine explosion or an exploding missile.

Noah Sneider and Sabrina Tavernise/The New York Times

Many of the holes are relatively small ...

Mr. Foster said “most of the smaller holes appear to have been caused by a high-velocity projectile, as opposed to shearing or tearing caused by the forceful separation of the panel from the airframe.” He said the SA-11 family of missiles was designed to destroy fast-moving military aircraft at high elevations. Rather than striking an aircraft directly, the missiles intercept the targeted aircraft and then explode near it, creating a cloud of shrapnel.

Noah Sneider and Sabrina Tavernise/The New York Times

... and uniform in size.

Most of the perforations are about the same size, and the fragments seemed to have entered from a front angle, Mr. Foster said. He said that fragmentary-warhead missiles try to “put as many consistently sized, low-drag fragments into the airframe as possible.” The shrapnel damage is different from what would be expected after an aircraft-engine explosion, Mr. Foster said, which would have caused “longer, thinner, oblique tears across the aircraft skin, with a slight hump toward the point where the fragment entered the skin, rather than the majority of punctures present.”

Noah Sneider and Sabrina Tavernise/The New York Times

****************************************************************

Well, again, asserting what one ought to see what's in those pictures:

Many of the holes are relatively small ...

[...]

... and uniform in size.

The first assertion implies that some holes are NOT "relatively small."

The second assertion is denying the obvious that even these "relatively small holes" have various sizes within that sample of "small holes": one needs to just look at 'em holes!

The only holes of uniform size are the ones left by popped-out rivets!

Then, in following the theory of an on-board bomb, what's missing as key information is where on the plane the photographed panel belongs.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Christine (here)
Good morning .. I don't want to divert this thread's topic but feel I am called to ask those of you who will to look beyond the smoke and mirrors for a moment. As has been noted one of the very possible ploys of this "crash" was to divert the world's eyes from the Gaza strip and the killing fields there.

If you haven't seen this video please take a moment to listen with your hearts and your minds.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=8hqQMhDvppk

And please jump over to this post and thread started by Realeyes.

It is necessary that we make our PRESENCE felt in some very REAL ways!

This MOMENT is not about the Palestinian people or Hamas.. this moment is about ALL of US.. PEACE will only COME as WE BEcome the emanating force that IS PEACE.

OUR very EARTH is asking us to focus intent.. where we are needed most. Words are not enough, it is time that as HUMAN BEINGS we make our PRESENCE KNOWN. So where are all the people walking hand in hand and sitting in civil disobedience?

The only Real question a person can ask is WHAT AM I DOING? My passion is focused on PEACE, real COMPASSION is KNOWING that everyone of those who are slaughtered are part of me.

Israel, Gaza, MH370, and MH17, Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, ISIS, etc etc, and even the issue with the flow of people crossing the Mexico/US border are tightly connected events, look who has their hands all the way to the bottom of the cookie jar in all of these issues.

To me, it doesn't matter what I am focused on, Gaza or MH17, I somehow feel I am basically looking at the same thing so to speak, just another cookie in the jar. Each issue deep down has a potential and or is involving mass murder/killing.

The Gaza issue is terrible and actually threatens us here in the US more than most realize, especially with our southern border being wide open.

There's more going on than meets the eye and it's escalating rather quickly....most won't realize what's hit them until it's too late.

So, yes, I agree with you, we must all look deeper within ourselves....

[Hervé]

Here is the whole piece:

A piece of wreckage from the Malaysia Airlines jet downed over eastern Ukraine last week shows damage, including shrapnel holes and blistered paint, that is consistent with a hit from a fragmenting warhead, according to consultants with IHS-Jane’s. Noah Sneider

***************************************************************

Another piece:

@Justin_Br0nk

'PROOF': Shrapnel damage suggests an SA-11 proximity frag warhead may have exploded slightly below and ahead of #MH17's port wing, Royal United Services Institute analyst Justin Bronk said.