Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[Centauri]

Russia doesn't need a war to help establish the new currency. You just sit back and watch the collapse of the petrodollar at that point. A war would only complicate and destroy that process. I'm not sure why you think Russia would benefit from starting a war. Especially since all the aggression is coming from the United States/Israel in the news, the actions in Syria, the support of neo-nazis in Ukraine, and the fear that their little strangle-hold on the world economy is coming to a very obvious end.

I'm going to go a little weird here (and why not since this IS Project Avalon), but it seems like China and Russia were confronted by positive offworlder intervention to force them to turn over a new leaf. Even these people who were once associated with some pretty messed-up decisions can change for the good. Especially when the future ony holds the destruction of humanity if the current power structure continues on.

[joeecho]

There appears to be a heads or tails divide on this messed up tragedy here. Sure, there is a tendency to call out one side versus the other with a coin flip but don't be fooled, it is still ONE coin. The strings are being pulled for 'both' side by the puppet master(s).

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!

Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

I'm curious to see how they'll play out the data on the black boxes now, especially if this jet was being diverted from an original flight course and being trailed by fighters...surely the pilots would of said something damning before being blown up. I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes (notice Kerry nor any one else doing everything they can to controlling the narrative are even mentioning a thing about these black boxes?)

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes

Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
I bet the hypocrites are scrambling to get their hands on these black boxes

Yup - part of the "proper and thorough" (or whatever such words he used) investigation that Kerry wants - control the evidence and control the narrative.

Is Russia the new Iran? Is Putin the new Osama Bin Laden, the new boogeyman. My what a web "they" weave....and we are all in some form or fashion caught in this web waiting for the "spider" to get us!

[Roisin]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!

Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

No, he said that "the plane shot itself down" or that it was hit by a lightning bolt but which ever one they decide on, they will be sure to keep us abreast of any new updates.

---
This is going to fizzle out and the real perpetrator of this atrocity is going to get away with it, scot free. As for Putin, they're afraid of him, very afraid. Especially now.

[LoneWolf76]

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
this video is the smoking gun!

....it tells you that you should never ever watch this guy's videos again.

he is either really unintelligent or deliberately distorting the truth to make it sensational. all he wants is to get more views for his videos because he gets paid for this. I personally think he is very smart and is using all the dirty triks into foolling people - he has 93000 subscribers

so... first, kenzo is a fashion firm and I searched for the tshirt online, you can easily find it

https://www.google.com/search?q=kenz...w=1097&bih=546

secondly, the thing about the osce investigators could get to the crash because the media can shows that he knows absolutely nothing about the ukraine conflict and actually any conflict in general.

next, the intact passports... the plane was hit by a radar homing missile, not a heat seaking missile. so the missile could have hit the plane anywhere, instead of the engines.
(the video of the crash shows that there is no smoke in the sky, smoke only appears when the part of the plane containing the fuel hits the ground.)
the plane probably broke into pieces before hitting the ground (debris are spread along 15 km) and you can clearly see that from the imediate crash site footage. there is the part of the crash site that caught fire on ground impact and some other parts of the plane that fell out of the sky were almost intact. so the passports could have either been inside hand-luggage from the area of the plane that broke off, either actually fell from the sky when the plane did break. there are reports of even bodies falling from the sky.

Also... he implies that the event is aimed against russia. So how come the pro-russian rebels that are in control of the area (the ones that found the passports and have been managing the crash site from the first moment) are trying to frame russia by planting passports?? the fact that they are taking them out of the back of a truck is absolute proof? isn't it possible that guys were combing the 15 km area finding different pieces of luggage and handing them over to their commander - and he showed them to the press from his truck? Nothing makes any sense in this video and I actually find it as an offense to his viewers' judgement.

Videos like this are really unproductive. Instead of discussing the real facts and trying to find out what trully happened he is only going to shy away any intelligent people from all alternative media.

First, this is a MASSIVE distraction from Gaza, only an international disaster like this could really do it. Football over, nothing else for people to get emotional about. And make no mistake, it's an emotional reponse they want. People do not make rational sane decisions when they are emotional. When the Boston Bombing hoax was all over the news, it was an emotional reponse, but in the cold light of day, when you actually examine the pictures and the detail, such obvious fakery is almost laughable.

DON'T FORGET ABOUT GAZA!!

Second, the passports. There is no way all these passports could have gone through that crash with no damage at all! In fact, not only are they not burned or damaged, they don't look like they have ever been used, they are pristine! Smells like 9/11 to me, the "perfect passports" that made it through the twin towers and floated gently to the ground, just in time to identify the alleged terrorists reponsible... Hmmm...

Third, a story is emerging of some "victims" who appear to know that this is is, they won't be coming back. Whatever the reason, which I won't go into now due to it just being a hunch, 2 stewardesses engaged in what I would call "telling behaviour" before they left.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...er-family.html

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/ma...nge-last-words

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Natio...h-Nur-Shazana/

And as for Dahboo's 93000 followers, it's because he's mostly on the money. He's been threatened too to shut up. You know you over the target when the flak starts flyin'!

[Jake]

Posted by Roisin (here)

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
Kerry would probably be more believable if he had Susan Rice sitting beside him backing him up!

Given Kerry's reliable capacity to take the opposite side of an issue from the truth, all I can conclude from listening to him is that Russia is innocent ?).

No, he said that "the plane shot itself down" or that it was hit by a lightning bolt but which ever one they decide on, they will be sure to keep us abreast of any new updates.

My question to John Kerry: Was flight 17 diverted over a warzone to avoid a dangerous cloud of swamp gas emanating from Uranus??? Sorry for the insanely obtuse angle...

Jake.

[GoodETxSG]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NZwythZvgeg

[Selene]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Merkel, Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash

By Agence France-Presse, Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:21 EDT



German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, “agreed that an international, independent commission under the direction of ICAO (UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization) should quickly have access to the site of the accident… to shed light on the circumstances of the crash and move the victims,” said a German government statement.

A Kremlin statement on the same phone call said that “both sides stressed the importance of a thorough and objective investigation of all circumstances relating to what has happened” and said Merkel gave a “positive assessment of Russia’s readiness to send its representative to participate in the investigation.”

The two leaders also agreed that a contact group comprising Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should meet “quickly” with the aim of reaching a ceasefire in the conflict between Kiev and the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the German government statement.

“The chancellor once again asked President Putin to exercise his influence over the separatists in order to reach this objective,” it said.

In a possible barrier to further talks, however, the Kremlin statement said the contact group should include separatist representatives, a move opposed by Kiev.

Merkel taking Putin’s side. Interesting.

Germany of late has had ample reason to feel burned by US intelligence/NSA screw-overs. But an open break with the “official” US storyline here seems to me to indicate a significant reshuffling of allegiances within the G20.

In the same way that England (for the first time in their history) refused to go along with a US-led war in Syria, another major player is now saying ‘no’ to the US agenda. More and more opposition is coming out of hiding.

Interesting times, these.

Cheers,

Selene

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Selene (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Merkel, Putin agree on international probe of MH17 crash

By Agence France-Presse, Saturday, July 19, 2014 10:21 EDT



German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Russian President Vladimir Putin have agreed for an international investigation into the downing of a Malaysian Airlines plane over Ukraine, Berlin said on Saturday.

The two leaders, who spoke on the telephone, “agreed that an international, independent commission under the direction of ICAO (UN’s International Civil Aviation Organization) should quickly have access to the site of the accident… to shed light on the circumstances of the crash and move the victims,” said a German government statement.

A Kremlin statement on the same phone call said that “both sides stressed the importance of a thorough and objective investigation of all circumstances relating to what has happened” and said Merkel gave a “positive assessment of Russia’s readiness to send its representative to participate in the investigation.”

The two leaders also agreed that a contact group comprising Ukraine, Russia and the OSCE should meet “quickly” with the aim of reaching a ceasefire in the conflict between Kiev and the pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine, said the German government statement.

“The chancellor once again asked President Putin to exercise his influence over the separatists in order to reach this objective,” it said.

In a possible barrier to further talks, however, the Kremlin statement said the contact group should include separatist representatives, a move opposed by Kiev.

Merkel taking Putin’s side. Interesting.

Germany of late has had ample reason to feel burned by US intelligence/NSA screw-overs. But an open break with the “official” US storyline here seems to me to indicate a significant reshuffling of allegiances within the G20.

In the same way that England (for the first time in their history) refused to go along with a US-led war in Syria, another major player is now saying ‘no’ to the US agenda. More and more opposition is coming out of hiding.

Interesting times, these.

Cheers,

Selene

It's called, "The Curly Shuffle"

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FKAfXdb5LsA

[sirdipswitch]

Seems to me the video is doing its' job quite nicely.

Why get so all fired up over pure Speculation?????????????????????????????????????

[Selene]

“US says recordings of Ukraine rebels admitting MH17 downing 'authentic'”
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...ms_948717.html

Yeah, sure. This despite excellent research showing that the recordings were created before the plane went down… The script rolls on.

Alleged intercepted phone conversations released by Ukraine's security service of pro-Russian rebels discussing how they shot down Malaysian airliner MH17 are genuine, the US embassy in Kiev said.


"Audio data provided to the press by the Ukrainian security service was evaluated by Intelligence Community analysts who confirmed these were authentic conversations between known separatist leaders," the US embassy in Ukraine said in a statement.

Cheers,

Selene

[Agape]

Posted by jackovesk (here)
Some of these Questions are answered in the Dr. Steve Pieczenik's post 'above your OP...

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28380634

Forbes Media sold to Chinese group Integrated Whale

After 97 years of family ownership, Forbes Media has announced it has sold a majority stake in the company to a Hong Kong-based group of international investors.

Forbes Media - which includes Forbes magazine - was sold to Integrated Whale Media Investments for an undisclosed sum.

The Forbes family said it would still have a "significant" stake.

Steve Forbes will remain as chairman and editor-in-chief.

"While today marks a fundamental turning point in this 97-year-old company founded by my grandfather, it should be seen as an opportunity to continue and strengthen our mission," said Mr Forbes in a blog post announcing the sale.

Forbes - which says it reaches 75 million people worldwide every month through its print, digital, TV, conferences and research ventures - began looking for a buyer last November.

Forbes will continue to be headquartered in the US, but announced plans for an international expansion.

I'd make another bad joke here but don't think it suits me well .

Is there anything these people can not afford to buy ? Me for example ..

[Daphne]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Zamolxe (here)
Did you actually know anything about the conflict before this crash?

Could you kindly spend less time questioning the knowledge of other members and less time heaping scorn on the foolishness of some of the web commentators, and rather spend more time providing the best evidence and analysis you can find or provide?

An excess of scorn can cloud the discussion.

Thanks Paul. I am feeling quite chastised.

[Selene]

More spin from the Spin Machine:

Malaysia Airlines jet MH17, that was shot down over eastern Ukraine's war zone, deviated from its normal flight path to avoid thunderstorms, a top aviation official from the European Cockpit Association told the Mirror.

"I heard that they were diverting from some showers... I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission," Nico Voorbach, president of the European Cockpit Association, was quoted as saying by the Mirror.

"I think there were thunderclouds. You would ask air traffic control to divert left or right, and they would give you the permission."

http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/...717.html<br />

Weather diversion, huh? This claim despite other evidence that the flight path change was known to crew before the flight departed and that two crew members refused to fly over a war zone, and had time to switch their place on the flight roster.

Two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on the doomed Malaysian airliner downed by a missile in eastern Ukraine, after raising concerns about the safety of flying over the war zone.

Other senior pilots and cabin crew had flagged up fears about the flight path in the weeks leading up to the tragedy, although Malaysia Airlines last night denied ignoring crew concerns.

Some staff are reported to have refused to fly over the airspace where the passenger airliner was downed because they deemed it to be too volatile and dangerous, especially after two Ukrainian planes, a fighter jet and a transport aircraft, were shot down by rebels.


According to well-placed Malaysia Airlines sources, at least two cabin crew swapped shifts so they would not be on MH17, specifically because they were worried about the flight path. The Mail on Sunday has been told worried pilots consulted air traffic controllers in Malaysia and also made an informal approach to the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz38229nOev

The planned-ahead flight deviation also smacks of a lot of pre-flight skullduggery, a highly planned op. But no, we’ve got to make this look like “an accident”, don’t we?



Cheers,

Selene

[Tesseract]

There is a very good reason why Kiev has deployed AA batteries to the east of the country. To shoot down any Russian aircraft that may launch air strikes against their positions. Russia has made repeated claims it will protect Russian speakers in Ukraine from the fascist regime in Kiev, and it seems like Kiev has tried to provoke them into doing just that, since Kiev has blatantly used helicopter gunships, artillery, heavy weapons, jets and tanks against the Russian speakers in the east. And just recently you had someone killed inside of Russia by a Ukrainian artillery shell. I suspected that Russia would make some limited air strikes inside of eastern Ukraine. There would have been precedent, given Israeli air strikes into Egypt, Turkish airstrikes into Syria and so on. However, such strikes never eventuated despite the massacres that have occurred. However, the threat of them did remain and I think it made sense for Kiev to take precautions by moving AA systems into position.

[Roisin]

I was just reading one of the links Paul posted, here it is, http://www.infowars.com/what-happene...sian-airliner/, and the thought occurred to me that the "rebels" were boasting in their tweets, that have since been deleted, that they had just shot down a Ukraine transport plane. According to a number of sources, that's what they thought they shot down only to find out later that they instead shot down a commercial airliner. This according to some mainstream news sources.

That the article in that link states that the rebel's did not have a Buk, therefore, they were not the ones who shot the plane down. But supposing they really did shoot down a Ukraine transport plane using their own shoulder missiles as a transport planes flew by at a lower altitude. But in reality it was not an actual transport plane at all but a hologram of one instead?

But then, once they got to the area where they thought the plane crashed down , instead of seeing a crash site of a transport plane, they see a crash site of a commercial airliner instead!

Could it be that the whole thing was planned out ahead of time and that both aircraft were shot down almost simultaneously only the commercial airliner, which was at a much higher altitude at 33,000 ft, was shot down by someone else with a Buk... like the Ukrainians, for example?

Also, maybe the transport plane they thought they shot down was not a hologram but a real decoy transport plane from the Ukraine. Maybe once a rebel shot at it, it went into a stall with smoke coming out of it to add to the effect, of a fake "hit" and "crash". So the whole scenario was staged by the Ukrainians to make it look like the rebel shot down the plane when, in fact, that's not what really happened. This could have occurred shortly before the commercial airliner was shot down by someone else... or shortly after.

Or maybe, that commercial airliner site they arrived at was planted there... an explosion occurred before that to alert the locals. In the meantime, shortly before this, bodies rained down on that village and so on... from another plane up there....

All of it was staged and orchestrated right down to a "T".

This could explain why the head rebel honcho thought that some of the bodies at that site looked like "old corpses". This could also explain why those passports were so intact including a lot of other objects at that site too.

[Hervé]

How misdirections keep about everyone busy down labyrinths with no exits:

Who said it was a BUK missile?

Any evidence for it beside unsubstantiated assertions?


DEBRIEFING: MH17 WAS HIT BY AA MISSILE R-73 OR R-27 THAT WAS FIRED FROM MIG-29 OR SU-27, BOTH OPERATIONAL IN UKRAINE AIR

Posted By: IZAKOVIC [Send E-Mail]

Date: Sunday, 20-Jul-2014 09:09:43

In Response To: WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU HAVE SURPLUS MH370, PART 4: WHY? (IZAKOVIC)


The story of the disaster of the Malaysian Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, acquires more and more new details

July 20, 2014, 15:12, Photo: Andrew Stenin / RIA "Novosti"

Author: Dmitry Litovkin
http://www.vzglyad.ru/society/2014/7/20/696411.html

Following the photographs of "newcomers" and "canceled" passports of passengers, "dead accounts" in "Facebook" and the lack of response of relatives of the victims internet was flooded with photos of damage to the aircraft received as a result of a rocket attack. According to them, the attack on the craft was not from the ground but from the air, which casts doubt on any version from the Ukrainian authorities on involvement of the militia or a terrorist attack on an airplane.

The major versions of the Boeing 777 crash believed it was shot down by a missile of the air defense missile system "Buk-M1." It was caught in the clashes among the Ukrainian army and the Russian militia, it was directly owned by the Ukrainian military. Russian Defense Ministry cites radio intercepts, that show conclusive evidence that during the ill-fated day Ukrainian air defenses near Donetsk was put on full alert.

So, it was recorded, on July 17, the radar 9s18 of the "Dome" Battery SAM "Buk-M1", stationed near the village of Styla, 30 km south of Donetsk. The ministry stressed that the technical features of the complex air defense "Buk-M1" shares information about the whereabouts of air targets between the batteries of the same division. Thus, the launch of missiles could also be done with all the batteries stationed in the village Avdiyivka, 8 km north of Donetsk, or Gruzsko-Zaryanskom, 25 km east of Donetsk, the military summarized.

To date, the Internet has got photos directly from the site of the crash. On this basis, it can be assumed that the liner was not shot by "Buk" and there were those "unidentified" two fighters which are mentioned in his blog by 'Spanish' manager from Boryspil airport in Kiev.

"The anti-aircraft missiles are special combat units - told the newspaper VIEW one of the founders of the OR R-complex "Buk." So that by analyzing the aircraft wreckage it's easy to determine exactly what it was hit by. "

For example, a complex "Buk" uses anti-aircraft guided missiles 9M38M1. Their speed is 850 meters per second, the warhead has 70 kg of high explosives. It contains metal balls and is proximity-detonated near the target (40-50 meters) forming a dense cloud of rushing high speed fragments.

"When such aircraft is hit with this warhead it suffers many different holes, - says the designer. - In the fuselage, they may be small, if they hit the fuel tanks -- huge -- if the engine is hit, then nothing remains because fragments "fire" all turbine blades."

Judging by the damaged remains of the Boeing 777, the expert concludes that the aircraft was fired upon by missiles from jet fighters.

Full article: http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...gi?read=312787

[Roisin]

Thanks Amzer Zo