Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Möbius (here)
I apologies if some one else has stated the obvious already but how the **** do the west know exactly what happen to MH17 before any investigation has even started whilst at the same time they haven't got a clue what happened to MH370! The main stream media have stated that they have the technology to track a missile anywhere on the planet but they cannot track a Boeing 777! To add suspicion to the mix, how did the two strangest events in aviation history in the last 20 or more years have happened to the same flag carrier within 4 months! **** me, if this isn't evidence of the main stream media blatantly following the instructions of TPTB then I don't know what is. Then we have Israel stream rolling the Gaza strip the main stream media does not say a dickey bird! I had a BBC automated news update on my iPhone this week that said the an Israeli soldier had gone missing in the Gaza strip. On my god! I was so concerned about this single Israeli soldier that I almost fell off my chair, not! However, the main stream media didn't send me a automated news update about the 600 Palestinians (Most of which are women and children) that have been murdered by the Israeli government. Even the unbelievers are starting to realise that this planet stinks of ****!

In summary, the Russians are being blamed for deliberately downing a commercial airline 4 months after when one went missing without a trace, whereas Israel can do the **** they want with impunity.

The famous phrase that "Israel does not negotiate, it annihilates." is true.

By the way, I just made that one up because I believe that it is the truest statement that I could have come with. It has been going on for 58 years and no one in power gives a ****.

Roger, out...

many of us here feel this same frustration and are "mind-boggled" beyond words to the hypocrisy and blatant in your face crimes and evil behavior going on all over this planet.....and are very concerned about its escalation.

If I had to make a guess, I would guess 10's of millions of people are catching on to the game right now and the controllers know it, that is why they are not just moving forward with their sick agendas in a quickening way, it is also why they are hell bent on dividing us right now with sunni vs shiite, right vs left, white vs black, pro this anti that....no you can't grow veggies in your yard....yell at your child the wrong way and the state kidnaps your child.....eat this poison or else, talk bad about your gov and your psychologically a danger and need to be lobotomized or heavily medicated in a psycho ward.....on and on and on....

It won't be long and it'll be a crime to post on forums like this or in the comment section of the new york times unless your an elite and have a license to do so!

The road to a solution? well, I'm afraid it won't be a pretty one....I'm hoping infighting at the highest levels gets out of hand and they wipe themselves out.....but in the end it'll most likely be up to us to break the cycle and set a new path forward.

[Cidersomerset]

The Whitehouse not so bright spokeswoman responds....
Still 'Waffle' and 'Bull----'....



US hits back over Russia's MH17 claims

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eDddKQmr2-0

Published on 23 Jul 2014


Despite initial assumptions, US intelligence officials released a report Tuesday stating
they could find no evidence of direct Russian involvement in the downing of Malaysia
Airlines flight MH17. The officials, however, did accuse Moscow of "creating the conditions"
that led to the disaster. RT's Ameera David has more on the intel and what the state
department is saying about the crash.

[Pris]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
Meanwhile, MPs have been seeking urgent clarification on UK licences to export
arms to Russia.

The cross-party Commons Committees on Arms Export Controls said permits
covering the sale of sniper rifles, components for air-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft
guns, rocket launchers and combat helicopters remained in force.

A total of 251 licences worth at least £132m remained in force, while 31 licences
had been halted or suspended, it said.

The government said it was keeping all licences under review and the majority of
licences that remained in place were for "commercial use".

Wow, licences and permits... after all, when we play these war games, we must keep it civilized.

What a sick joke!

[Hervé]

... what else eez new...

Russian State Duma suggests investigating Kolomoisky's activities in connection with MH17 crash


ITAR-TASS Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:06 CDT
Translated by SOTT.net


Ihor Kolomoyskyi

The activities of Ukrainian businessman Igor Kolomoisky on the day of Malaysian Boeing crash and in previous days should be the subject of close attention, said Sergei Neverov, vice-speaker of the State Duma, secretary of the General Council of Yedinaya Rossia party, to Russia 24 TV channel.

"In connection with the crash of Malaysian aircraft, it is appropriate to recall the fact that the oligarch Igor Kolomoisky owns a number of Ukrainian airlines: Ukraine International Airlines, Dniproavia, Aerosvit. But what is even more interesting is that he fully funds the activities of Dnepropetrovsk dispatcher services responsible for tracking the tragic voyage and, to a large extent, for the technical support of dispatcher services throughout Ukraine," he said.

Neverov thinks that the oligarch, in fact, not only has a direct impact on the dispatcher services of Ukraine, but he is also able to "give direct instructions to a number of them, including those who must have tracked the tragic flight of Malaysian Boeing on July 17."

"Actually, Igor Kolomoisky, his activities, as well as any [of] his orders given on July 17 or in the previous days should be the subject of close attention or even international investigation by a commission dealing with the circumstances of Malaysian Boeing crash," suggested the Duma vice-speaker.

Moreover, as noted by the politician, Kolomoysky has a serious arsenal of weapons and military equipment." Kolomoysky has his own well-equipped armed forces, he certainly has tanks, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, jet-fire systems. And at this point, a question arises, if he also has planes and Buks. I strongly advise the US president and European leaders to carefully look at this," concluded Neverov.

SOTT Comment: Yep, this is the same Kolomoisky behind the Odessa massacre. He also has strong ties to Israel, which stood to benefit from the MH17 disaster, timed to distract from the ground invasion of Gaza.

• Powerplay and cover-up: Kiev protégé allegedly behind Mariupol and Odessa massacres leaked tapes reveal
• Two phone call leaks which say it all (plus a long Saker rant)
• The Fateful Triangle: Russia, Ukraine and the Jews

Interestingly, the following tweet allegedly appeared on July 13th:

"Kolomoysky going to surprise Poroshenko. Something to do with the aircraft."

[sigma6]

I am just posting here because the other thread is hitting over 500 responses (way to go Avalon!)
And technically this is thread is focused more on the Bizarre anti Russian sentiment which spiked with the BRICS alliance... interesting...

This one is now focusing on exactly what I have been saying since I found out about the remote control functionality built into 777s (and apparently ALL BOEINGs since 1995?)

The Cabal, in an effort to bolster the "power" of their quasi "homo", "black", "muslim", "marxist" (my apologies to all black homo marxist muslims) puppet (and puppets) by creating an extortion racket (this is how insurance companies grew into prominence, it became a cash cow for gangsters)

a Chicago-based program to drone all Boeing passenger aircraft and enforce a global protection racket
http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/07/20...mper.html#more

United States Marine Field McConnell has linked Serco agents in the Offender’s Tag Association who have allegedly tampered with the MH 17 crime scene “on an industrial scale” to Obama’s apparent use of his Red Switch Network flash-override authority to order the spoliation of evidence which might otherwise expose a Chicago-based program to drone all Boeing passenger aircraft and enforce a global protection racket.

Readers are invited to check the Australia’s prime minister’s comment that Ukrainian rebels have tampered with the MH17 wreckage “on an industrial scale” and ask themselves who could have authorized the removal of 82 tagged body bags from the crime scene given that the rebels say they put 282 bags on a train at departure for government-controlled Kharkiv but the Dutch forensic team in Kharkiv has only found 200 bodies on arrival.


This now supports the "already drained of blood" dead body observations, that have come from numerous sources, including people who viewed them on YouTube.

[sigma6]

Evidence that this is a full blown multi billion dollar Zionist operation... i.e. people in power are willing to spend millions if necessary to keep themselves and their pederastic blackmailed politicians in power...

The Israeli-Ukrainian oligarch living in Switzerland, Ihor Kolomoisky


http://www.abeldanger.net/2014/07/am...ured-into.html



The Israeli-Ukrainian oligarch living in Switzerland, Ihor Kolomoisky, called South-East pro-federalist leader, Oleg Tsarev, to inform him that the Ukrainian Jewish community was prepared to pay a bounty of $ 1 million to whoever would assassinate him. He ordered him to immediately flee the country [1].

[gripreaper]

Posted by sigma6 (here)
the rebels say they put 282 bags on a train at departure for government-controlled Kharkiv but the Dutch forensic team in Kharkiv has only found 200 bodies on arrival.

They probably used a solar powered calculator in cloudy weather. That's why the count is off.

[Roisin]

Meet the new Jewish governor of the Dnipropetrovsk District, Ukraine

3/04/14

President Oleksandr Turchynov announced the appointment of Ukrainian Jewish business mogul Igor Kolomoisky as governor

On Saturday, Mr Kolomoisky said he had accepted an offer from Kiev to head the regional government in his native Dnipropetrovsk region in eastern Ukraine, where he controls a large share of industry and other businesses.

Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi born February 13, 1963) is an Ukrainian-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent. Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship although dual citizenship is not recognized by Ukraine and controls his business empire from Switzerland.[6] Kolomoyskyi is the leading partner of the Privat Group and a de facto chairman of the FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk.

He is a well known activist in Jewish circles in Europe and Isreal:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page...aPCpzVAMiog.99

-----------------------------------------------
MH-17: Beware of the «Chameleon»

(some isolated paragraphs from this article)

Biden's son, Hunter Biden, is a newly-named director of the Ukrainian natural gas and oil company Burisma Holdings, Ltd., owned by Ihor Kolomoisky, the Ukrainian-Israeli mafia oligarch, whose is known as the «Chameleon».

Kolomoiskyhas raised his own mercenary army, complete with the BUK missiles allegedly used in the shootdown of MH-17. Kolomoisky, the Governor of Dnipropetrovsk oblast in eastern Ukraine, has threatened terrorist attacks against Russian-speaking officials in eastern Ukraine, including assassinations.

Burisma is a typical RUIM [Russian - Ukrainian - Israeli - Mafia] operation, with subsidiaries in such tax havens as Cyprus and the British Virgin Islands. It is part of Kolomoisky's large umbrella corporation called Privat Group.

Kolomoisky, estimated to be the second-richest person in Ukraine, also has strong connections inside Kiev's Borispol International Airport, where it has been reported that Ukrainian Interior Ministry troops stormed the air traffic control tower shortly before MH-17 was shot down.

Some of the Georgians who serve in Kolomoisky's Army have reportedly been trained in the use of BUK missile systems previously sold by Ukraine to Georgia under the presidency of MikheilSaakashvili. Kolomoisky has utilized ex-President Saakashvili's «consulting services» in Dnipropetrovsk in the military and political campaign against the breakaway people’s republics of Donetsk and Luhansk.

Kolomoisky chooses to «command» his army from the safety of Switzerland, far from the front lines and relatively safe from arrest if his ties to terrorist attacks are ever pursued by legitimate governmental authorities.Kolomoisky has a powerful «insurance policy» against any legal recriminations. He counts on the powerful Israel Lobby in the United States to support his cause. Kolomoisky has publicly spoken of Ukraine as the «second homeland» of the Jewish people. And with «The Lobby» in his corner, Kolomoisky has indirect access to the highest levels of power within the Department of Defense, NATO, and the U.S. Intelligence Community.

The seizure of the air traffic control center at Borispol by allies of Kolomoisky shortly before the shooting down of MH-17 and Kolomoisky’s strong links to Israel, which benefitted immensely from the downing of MH-17 because it drew the attention of the world’s media away from its ground invasion of Gaza, which began just as initial reports about the fate of MH-17 were being transmitted, may be the real story behind the loss of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 and the horrible deaths of its 298 passengers and crew.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/new...chameleon.html

----------------------------------------

Russia issues arrest warrant in absentia for Ukrainian oligarch Kolomoisky

2 July, 14:14

Moscow's Basmanny Court has warranted the arrest of Ukrainian oligarch and Dnepropetrovsk region governor Igor Kolomoisky, the Interfax news agency reports.

The court thus granted the Investigative Committee's request for Kolomoisky's arrest.

Earlier, the Investigative Committee brought criminal charges in absentia against Kolomoisky and Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. Both are accused of using prohibited methods and means of warfare, committing murders and kidnappings under aggravating circumstances and preventing journalists from doing their professional duty.

Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_0...lomoisky-3940/

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
Does or has anyone come across any images of the front intakes of either of the engines of MH17? Because if what we're seeing are the front intakes of this plane - then this isn't a 777; the front intakes should be twice the height/diameter of an adult, ie roughly 4 metres or 12 feet in diameter... just curious?

Not sure what you've been looking at?

Anyway, this shows what's still recognizable that's left of the engine(s):

Ahhh thanks Amzer - your top and 3rd pic is what I was looking for - the main/front turbine blade - cheers The large blade lying horizontally in the foreground is more like it! (Was briefly reminded of the engine on the Pentagon lawn after 9/11, which was far too small to be off a B757...)

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Russian State Duma suggests investigating Kolomoisky's activities in connection with MH17 crash

Posted by Roisin (here)
Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi born February 13, 1963) is an Ukrainian-Israeli business oligarch of Jewish descent. Kolomoysky has a dual Ukrainian-Israeli citizenship

Posted by sigma6 (here)
Evidence that this is a full blown multi billion dollar Zionist operation ...

From Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated (Gordon Duff's column on Veteran's Today):

With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call. ...

Israel did it.

Duff's column provides further details that implicate Israel.



I added the embolding of Kolomoisky, Zionist, and Israel, above.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by sigma6 (here)
Evidence that this is a full blown multi billion dollar Zionist operation...

See also my recent post Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who? -- Post #596.

[sigma6]

Oh my God! pressured by a Rabbi to stop all sales of this book
Banned By Amazon since 2008!
After listening to this, you will know why...
ALL BOOKS HAVE BEEN SOLD BY WORD OF MOUTH

And listening to this guy talk. The only word I can describe is astute and articulate beyond any measure I could command myself. I certainly respect that, and it is the only way anyone would even dare to attempt to tackle such subject matter here is the intro by Jeff Rense...

"Judaism Discovered differs from almost all the writing on this subject, which has preceded it in the last hundred years. It's does this by means of strictly empiric and factual discovery of Judaism's deepest operational and spiritual secrets, and in particular Judaism's extremely circumspect epistemology of concealment. Let me impart to you a great secret, whoever hates Judaics perpetuates the role and the rule of the Rabbis. This secret is documented and explained in my book, I have sought to break new ground and to anticipate the counter arguments of Rabbinic and Judeo Christian critics. It has been my objective to craft "Judaism Discovered" so that there is no possibility of a rational refutation of it. While it's true that the book's evidence and the arguments can be twisted, misrepresented and demonized, with the usual underhanded ADL style smears and falsification, the information in "Judaism Discovered" cannot be easily disarmed because much of it pertains to epistemology viz a viz Judaism's knowledge of itself and the ways in which it responds to discovery."
- Michael Hoffman

And this completely predicts and explains exactly what is going on in Gaza, which I am going to guess their target will well exceed 1000 kills in Gaza which is happening right now... This is scathing expose...


This whole culture thrives on martyrdom, victim identification which is why he says that anyone who hates Jews perpetuates the role and the rule of the Rabbis.
Judaism Discovered Michael Hoffman Jeff Rense Full Interview

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=51aTCN3D8Ik

"Goyim were born only to serve us. They have no place in the world - only to serve the people of Israel"

This totally predicts the Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi public offer to pay for the murder. And the this whole thing therefore goes full circle that that the downing of MH17 was specifically timed to give the media an outlet in order to allow the Israelis free unfettered license to kill as many Palestinians as possible under the cover of a deflected media.

And people are concerned whether Separatists shot the plane down???

[sigma6]

Oh my God! pressured by a Rabbi to stop all sales of this book
Banned By Amazon since 2008!
After listening to this, you will know why...
ALL BOOKS HAVE BEEN SOLD BY WORD OF MOUTH

And listening to this guy talk. The only word I can describe is astute and articulate beyond any measure I could command myself. I certainly respect that, and it is the only way anyone would even dare to attempt to tackle such subject matter here is the intro by Jeff Rense...

"Judaism Discovered differs from almost all the writing on this subject, which has preceded it in the last hundred years. It's does this by means of strictly empiric and factual discovery of Judaism's deepest operational and spiritual secrets, and in particular Judaism's extremely circumspect epistemology of concealment. Let me impart to you a great secret, whoever hates Judaics perpetuates the role and the rule of the Rabbis. This secret is documented and explained in my book, I have sought to break new ground and to anticipate the counter arguments of Rabbinic and Judeo Christian critics. It has been my objective to craft "Judaism Discovered" so that there is no possibility of a rational refutation of it. While it's true that the book's evidence and the arguments can be twisted, misrepresented and demonized, with the usual underhanded ADL style smears and falsification, the information in "Judaism Discovered" cannot be easily disarmed because much of it pertains to epistemology viz a viz Judaism's knowledge of itself and the ways in which it responds to discovery."
- Michael Hoffman

And this completely predicts and explains exactly what is going on in Gaza, which I am going to guess their target will well exceed 1000 kills in Gaza which is happening right now... This is scathing expose... btw he clearly states that there are many "Jews" who themselves feel trapped, it is so Labyrinthine.


This whole culture thrives on martyrdom, victim identification which is why he says that anyone who hates Jews perpetuates the role and the rule of the Rabbis.
"Judaism Discovered" Michael Hoffman, Jeff Rense, Full Interview

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=51aTCN3D8Ik

"Goyim were born only to serve us. They have no place in the world - only to serve the people of Israel"

This totally predicts the Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi public offer to pay for the murder. And the this whole thing therefore goes full circle that that the downing of MH17 was specifically timed to give the media an outlet in order to allow the Israelis free unfettered license to kill as many Palestinians as possible under the cover of a deflected media.

And people are concerned whether Separatists shot the plane down??

Note: the subliminal cross at the very background but centre of the horizon in this picture. This is both subliminal and also for people who see it consciously to identify it with Christianity, a misdirection at the very least... this is a professionally staged photo, note there are NO perfectly conditioned children's toys, passports, body parts, how could there be, The heat was so hot in this photo, the metal of the turbine blades, some of the most highest tensile metal has been whitened and deteriorated. IT'S ALL PROPAGANDA.

[Cidersomerset]

From Malaysian 777 Shot Down Over Ukraine Updated (Gordon Duff's column on Veteran's Today):



Quote With the “breaking” stories on the media about “purported/alleged” intercepted phone calls, I am making a call. ...

Israel did it.
Duff's column provides further details that implicate Israel.

Good article and as part of an 'umbrella plan' it destabilise the Ukraine Rebel /
Russian sympathies putting Moscow on the back foot. Give Kiev more support world
wide.Gives a partial press diversion from the Israeli 'over kill' in Gaza and
strengthens the EU and NATO plans to closer Ukraine ties with the west and give
Putin a slap on the face for his recent public relations coo with the BRICS
agreement. Trade and military accords with China and Iran and propping up the
Syria regime with vetos to try and stop the western backed ISIS and Israel
destabilisation efforts in that area.....

This is not far off the old cold war days , and if we are not carefull the 'Hawks' are
going to push us right back and maybe somewhere worse.


So far the plan is not going like clockwork, especially the Ukraine part and there
is more noise coming from the world community to urge Israel to stop killing
innocent Palestinian civilians in Gaza. Only the US has the influence to stop
the Israelis and they are not showing signs yet of reigning them in. Now the
Ukraine part has stalled they may de escalate the Gaza operation ? just
speculating !!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on mainstream press I know you are
owned by the press Barons that are linked
to these corporate and political muppets.
But dig deeper and expose the goings on
behind the scenes , if you put your collective
minds together you will see the sham of the
last 60 years.

Russia China and the eastern countries are
also run by dodgy regimes and their peoples
are exploited by the powerfull elites.But its
time to look behind the controllers who keep
fermenting these never ending wars and disputes.

Are we humans so small minded , greedy , violent ?
I suppose some are , but the vast majority just
want to get on with their neighbours, raise their family,
have a job and security or some other vocation in life.
There are so many extremes going on this planet.

I know we are being manipulated , but by who ?

There are many theories from just greedy human
cartels and various cables and groups and factions
which there are . To the fact this could be some
sort of maitrix created by an external force.Or
its our eternal selfe coming into this reality to
experience this multi complex theme park warts
and all and each time we return we choose a
different ride or experience.....

Anyway rambling a bit, might delete these thoughts
when more news comes in......LOL

[sigma6]

Ok I will replace this duplicate error with some text from the vid above... There is a quaint point at around 54 min... Regarding how the orthodox Jews are really the controlling force even though they deny it... that even repress their own people, it's essentially a pyramid of "governmental" control in and of itself.

i.e. like the Romans did to Catholicism, the whole point is to complicate the religion like the government does, to the point where they can say or do anything, and not get caught.

The Talmud is just a collection of debates, and proof of how open and "liberal" Judaism is? ...blah blah blah.. Then from an Israeli military veteran "Regarding the Talmud, I studied it a little bit when I was in school when I was a kid, I was extremely horrified in recent years to learn on the internet the true nature of the Talmud. The average Israeli never read the Talmud and has no idea what it's all about, we always left it to religious nuts and now we're paying for it.

This interview really fits exactly what is happening in GAZA right NOW...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=51aTCN3D8Ik

And I just found an Alex Jones Interview
so you can't say Alex Jones never puts anything about "Jews" etc...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TxsHMt9mkxE

[sigma6]

Re: The book "Judaism Discovered" by Michael Hoffman above

This totally predicts the Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi public offer to pay for the murder. And the this whole thing therefore goes full circle that that the downing of MH17 was specifically timed to give the media an outlet in order to allow the Israelis free unfettered license to kill as many Palestinians as possible under the cover of a deflected media.

And people are concerned whether Separatists shot the plane down??

Note: the subliminal cross at the very background but centre of the horizon in this picture. This is both subliminal and also for people who see it consciously to identify it with Christianity, a misdirection at the very least... this is a professionally staged photo, note there are NO perfectly conditioned children's toys, passports, body parts, how could there be, The heat was so hot in this photo, the metal of the turbine blades, some of the most highest tensile metal has been whitened and deteriorated. IT'S ALL PROPAGANDA. It's a different photo EVERY TIME!

[Zamolxe]

So... you just avoided countering my arguments once again, right?

[sigma6]

Posted by Cidersomerset (here)
The Whitehouse not so bright spokeswoman responds....
Still 'Waffle' and 'Bull----'....

US hits back over Russia's MH17 claims

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eDddKQmr2-0

Published on 23 Jul 2014


Despite initial assumptions, US intelligence officials released a report Tuesday stating
they could find no evidence of direct Russian involvement in the downing of Malaysia
Airlines flight MH17. The officials, however, did accuse Moscow of "creating the conditions"
that led to the disaster. RT's Ameera David has more on the intel and what the state
department is saying about the crash.

She's totally full of sh**, And DID THE WHITE HOUSE JUST ADMIT THAT UKRANIAN FIGHTERS WERE IN THE VICINITY OF MH17 ???????
GEE WHEN DID THAT BECOME NEWS? ....

OR WAS THAT IT RIGHT THERE? LOLOLOL !!!! HOLY CRAP....

And just think this is a move to deflect the media toward anti Russian propaganda while the Israeli Army has now reached over a 700 Palestinian men women and children. Israel, in essence is using the global media, and the lives of MH17 passengers as part of their propaganda campaign and war effort. With full US CIA backing.

[Zamolxe]

Posted by GoodeTXSG (here)
(I am not calling you a "Troll" or passing judgment on you... I would have to check a persons Profile, how long it has been open and posting history in other threads to see if there were any patterns before that, and then would keep it to myself.)

So this just got personal...

you are not calling me a Troll, but you are implying it. You're actually saying that you believe I am a troll but because you haven't checked my profile, you can't say it "on the record". But you are convinced, and if you would check my profile you would surely determine that I AM a troll but would "keep it to yourself"... because you are such a forgiving and sensitive man...

¤=[Post Update]=¤

The questions I posed were actually arguments. Arguments that came up in my rational mind in real time while first watching the video.
The reason I posted them as questions is because I always leave the possibility that I might be wrong. So if you so stubbornly kept defending this video, I posted all my arguments as questions. If you could have answered these questions, I would have shifted to the possibility that I was wrong.
But you again avoided them with all this vague talk and generalities.

Not once have you in your posts countered any of these specific arguments.

Even now you keep implying that the passport story is legit:

Posted by GoodeTXSG (here)
the End Theory that the Passports were just one bread crumb of.

Is your ego that big that it's preventing you from admiting that your ration and logic weren't able to spot this BS video from the first moment?

Are you actually trying to protect the image of yourself that you keep in your mind? Or are you just trying to save face in front of the users here?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I realized after this thread that many of the people in the alternative community, as some users here on avalon, haven't gone down the rabbit hole because they were able to smell all the lies that surround us. I think that many of them have went down the alternative road only because of an egotistical impulse. The impulse of creating this image of one's self, as being smarter and less ignorant than another group of individuals, namely "the sheeple".

Are you so narcisistic that you believe anything that seems to you a conspiracy is so? That you can't be wrong? And there's no need for rational thinking and analyzing of facts?

[Cidersomerset]

Various stories from claims of shelling one of the villages near the crash site,
The Rebel leader giving interview to the BBC , The Ukrainian leader counter
claiming and blaming Russia for shooting down a warplane. Then a summery of
the European economic position.

====================================================

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=K5tUxcdOAVc

BBC News - Ukraine village 'shelled by forces'

3 hours ago

Investigators are still struggling to gain full access to the crash site of MH17.

On Wednesday, pro-Russian rebels shot down two Ukrainian military planes.

One rebel commander told the BBC that this was in retaliation to Ukrainian troops
bombing civilians.

He said the government was breaking its promise to keep ceasefire.

Natalia Antelava gained access to a village near the crash site where one woman
apparently died, and another was badly injured.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28457797


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7JXpISqV_N0

BBC News - Ukraine rebel leader admits Russian security services links

8 hours ago

The leader of pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine has admitted contacts with
Russian security services.

Talking to BBC Newsnight, Alexander Borodai also denied that his group had
neglected the bodies of the victims of crashed Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

He said that he had wanted to remove the bodies immediately, but was told to
leave the them in order to allow an investigation by international monitors.

Gabriel Gatehouse reports

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28451179

====================================================

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FG-9hbogh44

Ukraine jet hit by 'air-to-air missile' - Ukrainian PM23 July 2014 Last updated at 22:56 BST


As fighting continued in eastern Ukraine, officials in Kiev told the BBC that two
aircraft - thought to be military jets - had been downed just 35km (20 miles) from
the crash site of flight MH17.

Prime Minister Arseniy Yatseniuk later told the BBC that one of the fighters could
have been hit by an air-to-air missile.

He did not directly accuse Russia but said it was not brought down by a Ukrainian jet.

Ukrainian pro-Russian rebels have been widely accused of shooting down the MH17
plane on 17 July.


===================================================




23 July 2014 Last updated at 17:19

Gavin Hewitt, Europe editor Article written by Gavin Hewitt

Europe editor
More from Gavin

Europes troubles exposed by MH17 Wreckage from Flight MH17 in a field in east Ukraine,




Ukraine exposes Europe. Its agony and tragedy casts an unrelenting gaze on
Europe's leaders. When it comes to sending a convincing message to Russia there
have been months of indecision, weakness and self-interest.

Even after the reported shooting down of the Malaysian airliner, Europe's foreign
ministers struggled to convince. They described their decisions as "forceful" but it
remains unclear how many names will be added to the list of those facing travel
bans and a freeze of their assets. It is said they will include some of Russian
President Vladimir Putin's cronies. We shall see.

The ministers opened up the possibility of imposing broader economic sanctions on
the arms, energy and financial services sectors, but the EU was actually given a
mandate to do this in March. To go further would require another European summit
and unanimity would be hard to find.

The vacuum of decision-making is filled with finger-pointing. UK Prime Minister
David Cameron said it would have been "unthinkable" for the British to have gone
ahead with the sale of two warships to Russia as the French are doing.

Here in Paris the French papers are crying "hypocrites" and French Foreign Minister
Laurent Fabius was at his most withering when he said: "I say to my dear British
friends, let's speak of finance. I'm led to believe there are quite a few oligarchs in
London."

And the British are still authorising the export of arms and military equipment to
Russia despite calls for tougher sanctions.

The Germans are preoccupied with the potential damage to their own economy if
sanctions push Russia into a recession. In that event, it is being suggested 25,000
German jobs could be in danger and growth could be reduced by 0.5%.

There are signs, however, that Chancellor Angel Merkel is hardening her views. She
has said it is time to implement new sanctions and is said to moving closer to Washington's position.

Weakness

The Italians provided a flash of insight. Their Economy Minister, Pier Carlo Padoan,
said: "Recent German economic data shows that Europe's economy is much weaker
than it was expected six months ago and further economic sanctions against Russia
would be a 'problem' for all sides".

And that is the root of it: Europe is too vulnerable economically to target the
Russian economy and so risk its own fragile recovery.

Last week European leaders gathered to horse-trade top jobs. Lithuanian President
Dalia Grybauskaite reminded everyone there were real defining issues at stake. "I
will not support a person who is pro-Kremlin," she said.

But a robust debate about the EU's relationship with President Putin did not define
the dinner. The discussion as to who would become the EU's foreign policy chief
was not about qualifications or policies. The Italian prime minister seemed more
concerned that the job went to a socialist. Matteo Renzi was then quoted as
saying, "What does Italy ask for? Not one post or another, it asks for respect."

In the midst of a grave crisis in the heart of Europe, leaders were debating key
posts on the basis of political groupings, on balancing jobs between regions etc.

From a distance others see it starkly. Roger Cohen, writing in the New York Times,
said, "As for the EU, it has been near non-existent. When a crisis comes Europe
vanishes - the ghost that slithers away."

Europe has not done nothing. But, so far, it has failed to demonstrate it is willing to
hurt its own interests in order to inflict some pain on President Putin and the
Russian economy. The dog days of August approach and Europe's leaders tend to
head for the hills and the coastline. Events in Ukraine may yet force them to meet again.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28452639