Zeta-talk?

[Niobe]

Hello folks-

We have recently had a group start here in town that is a 2012 awareness type group. The people facilitating it are followers of the Zeta talk website information. I've been to that website and find it rather difficult to navigate. The first meeting was rather general. I'm wondering what opinions people have about Nancy and Zeta talk? I know people will say channeled info is not to be trusted, so I'm not looking for that answer, but more specific opinions about Zetas or Nancy.

So far I don't feel warm and fuzzy about it.

Thanks!

Niobe

[shiva777]

Zetatalk has been continually shown to be distributing a LOT of disinfo and fear-based opinions...there is also some good info but the main premise thatPlanet X is going to cause mass destruction is flawed and the main agenda of that website...possibly to condition people to accept negative ET/Zeta groups to evacuate them,save them...and then enslave them

[RAKMEiSTER]

overall i find it a good informative site, (at least for the more recent info. last year and maybe 09 a bit)
i have not followed Zetatalk the years before. so i cant comment on that

1 note: the future & and events arent set in stone. thus old predictions cant be seen as 100% it willbe

<above edited> to match timeline


<Update>

to Richard a Q:
what does one think of the a recent artikel/pics claiming the Face Of Mars has dissapeared or never excisted?
a it was never there.
b its still there
c shift in timelines,
d fill in a reason.

[Bill Ryan]

In my opinion, I'm afraid much of what's on Zeta Talk is nonsense.

[sargeist]

i agree with bill on this one.

[Richard]

The New Age movement and the brand new world wide web (at the time) collided and spawned one of the biggest farces to ever hit the web. From 1995 - 2003 the zetas pretty well dictated what conspiracy theories and prophecies were to be concerned about. Thousands of new agers of course flocked to their site and chatrooms to see what will come next. As time went on and theory after theory got debunked, prophesied dates came and went with nothing happening. The site's popularity dwindled along with Nancy Lieder's credibility.

What remains of ZetaTalk clearly speaks for itself and needs no explanation here -- visit the website. The "information" on ZetaTalk was cast in strictly absolute terms. Nancy Lieder, owner of the website, stated repeatedly that there could be no errors, inaccuracies or lies presented in it's material. In a rather voluminous amount of text, the website incorporated nearly every conspiracy theory of modern times and several from the last century. The main concept to this website was that we were soon to be visited by a worldwide cataclysmic event sometime in late May early June of 2003. The reader was encouraged by the overwhelming amount of text on the ZetaTalk website to make a "leap of faith" in believing the message of the Zetas. By design, the website seems to have presented more material than was necessary to support its message of cataclysm

Taking a closer look at just a few of ZetaTalk's misses:

Richard Hoagland and the "face on mars"

From ZetaTalk :

"There is speculation that the Face on Mars and nearby pyramids were used as astronomical markers, and this was indeed their prime purpose."

"Mars today is a dead planet, but in the recent past this was not the case, as evidenced by the weathered structures on Mars reminiscent of the Great Pyramids and the Sphinx"

Here ZetaTalk sank itself with the statement confirming that Hoagland's "Face On Mars" is real. However, Hoagland's folly was debunked by NASA photography 3 years after ZetaTalk banked their credibility on his claims.


And what was Nancy Lieder's official response to a former member of her Yahoo discussion group tt-watch who raised this same contradiction? See below.

"Sorry, but ZetaTalk is ZetaTalk, in other words, their words, and this does
not get changed. In fact, there are varrying OPINIONS about Moon/Mars, and
I for one find many of the photos and the like compelling, and have heard
Hoagland speak, etc. It's a worthy subject in my, Nancy's opinion. In any
group as large as TT, there will be many differing opinions, of course, and
this TOPIC has many many fans."

(from tt-watch, Wed Jul 5, 2000 12:23 pm)

So, with this statement Nancy Lieder seems to say that ZetaTalk is not about accuracy, but is about pleasing the unsubstantiated opinions of its "many many fans".

Also, interesting to note : Nancy stated that she had heard Hoagland speak and implied that his theories have a worthy air of legitimacy. But, the real mystery is why the supposed "emmisary" to a race of super-advanced and infallable alien visitors would need to listen to the phony drivel conjured up by the likes of Richard Hoagland. And, what do opinions have to do with supposed intractable statements of fact made by these aliens?

Planet X : The Video, $20 plus shipping and handling

A profit motive began to emerge when a website was established to sell $20 videos spreading the cataclysmic message found in ZetaTalk. The Planet X Video website claimed "All guests interviewed, did so without financial gain", but what is not clear is how this claim can possibly be true when Sepehr himself was reaping financial gain. The suspicion was that at least some of the money flowed from "Planet X Video" to Nancy Lieder, operator of ZetaTalk. It is also interesting to note that the claimed producer of the Planet X Video, Robert Sepehr had been supposedly "researching" the evidence of Planet X for the same amount of time ZetaTalk had been in existence -- 8 years. Hardly a coincidence, as Sepehr became enamored with Nancy Lieder and ZetaTalk during the spring/summer of 2000. (Domain Info)
ZetaTalk : The Book, $14.95 plus shipping and handling

Another profit motive came directly from Nancy Lieder in the form of a book. Sold on Amazon.com for $14.95 new and $11.95 used. ZetaTalk : Direct Answers From The Zeta Reticuli People. Clearly this book was direct profit flow to Nancy.
ZetaTalk : The Video, $30 book and video combo (video alone $20) plus $5 shipping and handling in the US or $10 for overseas shipping and handling.

(see full advertisement on www.zetatalk.com for order details)

Examples of Errors
Nancy and the Zetas claim that Stonehenge is older than the 12th planet, and that it survived prior cataclysms because it was placed in solid rock[9]. Unfortunately, the modern view of Stonehenge is a reconstruction. Reconstructions were performed at the Stonehenge site several times between 1901 and 1958, and many of the stones are now set in concrete[10][11].
They claimed that the comet of the century, Hale-Bopp, didn't exist[12][13]. Unfortunately Nancy missed this extraordinary event, deliberately, since she refused to go outside and look at it[14]. Later she (or they) admitted it was a lie[15]. The purpose of this deception was to somehow lay a 'trip point' to disrupt "the establishment".
Lieder makes basic errors in terminology, and is then unable to address simple questions about simple astronomy concepts[16]
In a nutshell (pun intended) the Hale-Bopp conversation on Sci.Astro went something like this:

NL (1995): Hale-Bopp is a hoax.
SA (1995): No, it's a comet. We can see it.
NL (1995): No, you can't, you're part of the hoax. It's an exploding star.
SA (1997): We have two years of tracking data. It's a comet.
NL (1997): No, NASA is slipping in tracking data to deceive you and align with a real comet.
SA (1997): Yes, it's a real comet!
NL (2002): You only think I was wrong, but really I was lying to you, so the Zetas were right again!
SA (2002): ???

How this benefited anyone is an open question, as is how anyone can believe anything from Lieder anymore.

Examples of claims that were taken from or predated by other sources
The Zetas themselves: The abduction reports of Barney and Betty Hill (1961)[17] and the appearance of the 'Grays' from Whitley Strieber's Communion (1987) [18]
Pole Shifts: Immanuel Velikovsky: Worlds in Collision (1950), Ages in Chaos (1952), Earth In Upheaval (1956), Oedipus and Akhnaton (1960), Peoples of the Sea (1977), Ramses II and His Times (1978), Mankind in Amnesia (1982), Stargazers and Gravediggers (1983). Edgar Cayce (1930). Len Kasten Pole Shift Revisited (1980).
12th Planet/Planet X: Zecharia Sitchin The 12th Planet (1976)
The Planet X Scenario: The cartoon "Thundar the Barbarian" (1980)[19] (possibly influenced by Sitchin)
STO/STS: Service to Others, (good) and Service to Self, (bad) These concepts are common. They are called 'egoism' (the self) and 'altruism', (the self serving the other). These are contained in social theories stemming as far back in time as the ancient Greeks and are contained in the teachings of various religions and belief systems as diverse as Paganism, Yoga, Islam, Buddhism, Christianity, humanism, etc., etc. Nothing new here.
It appears that Nancy and the Zetas are taking credit for co-opting pre-existing ideas.

Those Erroneous Aliens

The Zetas, for a space-faring race, have an abysmally poor grasp of basic astronomy. Their descriptions of the movements of "Planet X" contradict known facts about planetary motions. For example, they describe it moving from 40AU to 1AU in less than 5 years[20], ignoring Kepler's laws. When questioned on this point, their reply is to question everything we know about planetary motions. Apparently Lieder and the Zetas find that magnetism is a much bigger factor than gravity. Planets are described as having 'wakes', as 'stopping' suddenly due to 'particle flows', and as performing impossible orbital gymnastics. Their explanations of why we can't see Planet X are equally laughable[21]. But, the real eye-opener are the Zeta's claims about the 'Pole Shift'[22]. Try to read that page, and discern a coherent message.

Failed Predictions
Brian Gilbanks has documented several failed predictions[23]:

Cataclysms
The 12th Planet would be sighted by late 2002.
Domino earthquakes
Comet Hale-Bopp would not draw nearer.
Crop Failure
Market Crash
Financial Freeze with barter systems taking the place of paper money
Border Closings between states.
Aliens she's met

Zetas [24]
Short Skinny Zeta: 4ft tall, slender 'post like' body, straight limbs, archetypal 'Gray' face.
Tall Skinny Zeta: Similar form to the 'Short Skinny' but about 6ft tall.
PumpkinHead Zeta: Taller than the other types, larger rounded head as opposed to 'teardrop' shape, smaller rounder eyes.
Water Zeta: Similar to other types, with fins on the outside edges of hips and thighs, head described as 'aqua-dynamic' but also as 'basically lumpy', eyes on short protuberances
Other types [25]
Greek God: Described as humanoid, but "… made Arnold Schwartzeneger look like a 97 pound weakling"
Chicken Man: Described as looking "… just like a flesh-colored chicken without feathers."
Tiny Man: "…stood about a foot tall, and was flesh colored with a rounded head and short limbs."
Horned Toad Man: Described as being about 4 feet tall, wearing clothing, with skin covered large flexible plates similar to turtle shell.
Broom Stick Man: Described as "the very tall and skinny alien from Close Encounters"
Little Green Man: Less than 4 feet tall, skinny, green with a round head.
Slinky Man: Short, with stretchy neck, arms, and legs, "like slinkys"
Swamp Creature: A green version of the Creature from the Black Lagoon
Octopus Man: A body and tentacles like an octopus.
Bean Bag Man: A green blob with 2 eyes and a mouth in a round head, body surrounded by about 50 small claws.
Cockroach Man: A large, gray, bipedal cockroach.
Amoebae Man: A light green semi-liquid being with "no form or distinction".
Vampire Man: 4 feet tall, stubby arms and legs, with two large tusks coming down from the face.
Dino Man: A small T. Rex, no taller than a large man.
Usenet

In 1995, Nancy Lieder began posting on Usenet, including the groups sci.astro and alt.alien.visitors. In September of 1995 she posted a lengthy rant that Comet Hale-Bopp didn't really exist, but rather that it was "… a fraud, perpetrated by those who would have the teeming masses quiescent until it is too late." and warning about "the 12th planet"[26]. Nancy continued to post to sci.astro and sci.astro.amateur, posting her 'ZetaTalk' missives and not directly addressing questions or rebuttals.

Eventually, this drew some from those groups into her own 'Troubled-Times' discussion groups, with predictable consequences[32].

Nancy's response to criticism

Nancy Lieder typically has a harsh response to questions she and the Zetas cannot immediately answer, and to criticism of her arguments. The examples of this are legion in her posts to the Usenet newsgroups sci.astro and sci.astro.amateur.

At other times her "Zetas" have displayed anger when a post on sci.astro suggested Nancy might need medication[33].

After the "tt-invasion" a few people from sci.astro began frequenting Nancy's ZetaTalk sessions on IRC. Her response? Ignore their questions, accuse them of 'working for sex' and being paid 'disinfo artists'. In fact, Nancy appeared to be deeply concerned with the imagined sexual relationship between two sci.astro 'intruders' on her ZetaTalk IRC sessions… so obsessed that she began an insulting rant every time they showed up. Eventually the owner of the server kick-banned her from her own channel. This resulted in a new 'closed' chat channel being set up on another server which was ruled with an iron fist by a new moderator. No 'skeptical' questions allowed[27].

Turning against former allies
On the "Troubled-Time" groups, it was common, if not frequent, for members to be ostracized if they were too helpful, or if they contradicted something Nancy said, or if they asked too many questions.

Charlene Incident
"Charlene" was a member of the TT groups as well as a poster on sci.astro. At first Nancy praised her efforts and posts… until Charlene made an error. Then Nancy and one of Nancy's close disciples went after Charlene, publicly excoriating her on sci.astro and on the TT groups until she quit. [28]

Hazlewood saga
Mark Hazelwood joined the TT groups, and immediately began trolling them with various schemes to make money, including illegal pyramid schemes, and other 'get rich quick' schemes. Then he wrote a book that lifted much of the ZetaTalk website, and began promoting it, including appearances on "Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell". Despite repeated statements that she was not interested in money, and that her only goal was to get the message out, she threatened legal action against Hazelwood, and once again began publicly excoriating him as a 'government agent of disinformation'[29].

TT-takeover.
When the moderators of the TT groups failed to immediately remove (i.e. "ban") members who were not disciples of Lieder, or were overt skeptics, Lieder engineered a 'takeover' of the group, replacing the existing moderators with ones who were more favorable toward Lieder's demands. Specifically with board members of the Troubled Times non-profit corporation[30].

Witch Hunts
Brian Gilbanks documents several 'witch hunts' on the TT groups, where members who get out of line by doing things like asking why, with the pole shift supposedly coming, Nancy is spending time talking about the Jon Benet Ramsey case[31].


There's is much much more out there that pretty well sheds all the light you need to see the truth.

Where do these ideas come from?
Whois Nancy?
ZetaTalk : The Grand Conspiracy 1995 - 2003
2003: The ZetaTalk Deception

Bibliography for above [points]
1. Wikipedia. 2009. Wikipedia: Betty and Barney Hill Abduction: Deciphering the Star Map Wikipedia.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_a...2_the_star_map (accessed 2009-06-11)
2. Lieder, Nancy. Nancy's Bio ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/nancybio.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
3. Lieder, Nancy. 1995 ZetaTalk: Communications ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/transfor/t18.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
4. Lieder, Nancy. ZetaTalk: Hazelwood, Disinfo Pawn of the Day ZetaTalk website. http://bit.ly/L1Jct (accessed 2009-30)
5. The Skeptical Mind. 2003. What Is Known About Nancy Lieder SkepticalMind.com http://www.skepticalmind.com/nancy.html (accessed 2009-06-11)
6. Lieder, Nancy. 2005 ZetaTalk: Subtle Message ZetaTalk website http://zetatalk.com/poleshft/p116.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
7. Lieder, Nancy. 2002 Live ZetaTalk Chat Dec 14 2002 ZetaTalk website http://www.zetatalk.com/index/cdec1402.htm (accessed 2009-06-19)
8. Lieder, Nancy. Troubled Times: ZetaTalk Accuracy ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword232.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
9. Lieder, Nancy. ZetaTalk: Stonehenge ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/orientat/o26.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
10. Taverner, Roger; Chippendale, Christopher. 2001. How They Rebuilt Stonehenge "The Western Daily Press". http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicstonehenge.htm
11. Young, Emma. 2001. Concrete evidence NewScientist website. http://www.newscientist.com/article/...-evidence.html
12. Lieder, Nancy. 1995 Hale-Bopp - What's Going Down usenet sci.astro.amateur http://bit.ly/17cGhP
13. Lieder, Nancy. ZetaTalk: Hale-Bopp sci.astro debates ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/halebopp/hb000001.htm
14. Laughton, Paul. 1997 Nancy's Hale-Bopp Party http://www.laughton.com/paul/rfo/nancy/nancy.html
15. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. ZetaTalk Deception http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...confession.htm
16. Lieder, Nancy. et. al. 2002. sci.astro: OT: Current Magnitude of Planet X, per Zetas? usenet sci.astro http://bit.ly/yBVoE
17. UFO Folklore Center UFO Folklore Center: Barney and Betty Hill http://www.qtm.net/~geibdan/a1999/hills/ (accessed 2009-06-15)
18. Wikipedia. 2009. Communion (book) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communion_(book) (accessed 2009-06-11)
19. Ruby-Spears Productions, et. al. 1980 Thundar the Barbarian: Episode 1 YouTube. https://youtube.com/watch?v=1kIIc4tvtF0
20. Lieder, Nancy. 1998 Planet X/12th Planet Long Elliptical Orbit usenet messageid 6ftpbo$6ku@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com
21. Lieder, Nancy. 2005 ZetaTalk: Where is Planet X? ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/index/zeta202.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
22. Lieder, Nancy. ZetaTalk: Pole Shift ZetaTalk website. http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p00.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
23. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. ZetaTalk http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi.../Zetatalk5.htm
24. Lieder, Nancy. 1995. ZetaTalk: ZetaTypes http://www.zetatalk.com/worlds/w14.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
25. Lieder, Nancy. 1995. ZetaTalk: Variety of Life Forms http://www.zetatalk.com/worlds/w15.htm (accessed 2009-06-10)
26. Lieder, Nancy, 1995-09-25. What's Going Down - the Zetas Explain Planet X and the Pole Shift website, copy of usenet post to sci.astro. http://www.planet-x.150m.com/nancyhb.html (accessed 2009-06-25)
27. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. Nasty Nancy http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...nastynancy.htm (accessed 2009-06-25)
28. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. The Charlene Incident http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...s/charlinc.htm
29. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. The Hazelwood Saga http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...elwoodsaga.htm
30. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. The TT-Takeover http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...tttakeover.htm
31. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. Witch-Hunts http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...withchhunt.htm
32. Gilbanks, Brian. 2003. tt-invasion http://website.lineone.net/~brian_gi...s/invasion.htm (accessed 2009-06-25)
33. The Skeptical Mind. 2003. The Zeta Reticulans Get Angry The Skeptical Mind website. http://www.skepticalmind.com/angry_aliens.html

[Niobe]

Thanks all, I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond. Saves me a lot of time trying to navigate that website, I think. I'll still go to their meetings though, as I don't get many opportunities to meet like minded people. Blessings and peace, Niobe

[atut]

Now what is hot in the discussion is about the arriving of 7/10 (http://zetatalk.com/index/zeta584.htm).
Nancy Lieder predicts that 7/10 will start to unfold by the end of 2010 starting from Indonesia. Indonesia will sink in 2-3 weeks period.
Many members in that discussion forum/blog (http://poleshift.ning.com) are truly believe and agree with Zetatalk.

Zeta's quote: "As we stated, there would be large quakes when Indonesia sinks but not the major quakes one would expect, not magnitude 8-9. Already there are many periods when quakes line the plate borders, and hammer there. During one such episode, the elevation will start to drop. We have never stated, in our predictions, how fast this would go, just said "suddenly". The start will be sudden, almost without warning, but the progress not swift as in the pole shift hour. It will be a steady sinking, in short bursts, over a 2-3 week period. S America will be right behind Indonesia in this regard, starting its roll. This will start slowly at first, the trend already noted, but the quakes starting to pick up as Indonesia sinks. Thus it will not be before the early part of 2011 before the full impact of the prediction accuracy is noted by the world."

Because I stay in Indonesia, I don't see any sign of sinking and I don't believe of what is discussed as 7/10 sequence.
So I posted a comment telling that I don't believe and I don't agree with Zeta's prediction because I don't see any sign, I was demanding the accuracy date.
And they don't accept my comment, telling that my comment would make people confuse, so I got banned. Is it weird?
I posted a comment and I got banned. It is funny.

Do you think Zetatalk is nonsense? If it is nonsense, then why are so many people amazed, follow, believe and agree with Zeta/Nancy's prediction?
What do you think?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Niobe (here)
Hello folks-

We have recently had a group start here in town that is a 2012 awareness type group. The people facilitating it are followers of the Zeta talk website information. I've been to that website and find it rather difficult to navigate. The first meeting was rather general. I'm wondering what opinions people have about Nancy and Zeta talk?

Hi, Niobe -

My personal strong opinion is that Zetatalk should be disregarded.

Very little they say (or have said) accords with what I believe I know as fact.

All best wishes, Bill

* PS to add: I forgot I already responded to this thread above (back in October). At least I'm consistent!

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by atut (here)
Do you think Zetatalk is nonsense? If it is nonsense, then why are so many people amazed, follow, believe and agree with Zeta/Nancy's prediction?
What do you think?

Please se my "New Age Priests" thread here!

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ew-Age-Priests

Our weakness (and the weakness of humans throughout history) is that we rush to listen to anyone who ventures to predict future events.

Clif High met his come-uppance (more or less) on this issue, having set himself up as such a Priest - because this is a pretty tricky area nowadays.

So much is changing: we're all surrounded by shifting sands (which is a good thing) - and, in my opinion, subtly (and sometimes not-so-subtly) changing timelines.

I have my own information on what is planned - which comes from human sources which I believe are reliable - but that does not mean that these planned events will come to pass.

[meeradas]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Our weakness (and the weakness of humans throughout history) is that we rush to listen to anyone who ventures to predict future events.

Clif High met his come-uppance (more or less) on this issue, having set himself up as such a Priest - because this is a pretty tricky area nowadays.

Agreed! 'Prediction addiction': very dangerous! (One) deprives one of one's power to (co-)create completely - You know it? So, then go along these lines, even if undesired... very undesirable situation, that.

Secondly, 'guru business' has - not only nowadays - been "pretty tricky" always (well, 'business', as usual...). Way better to follow oneself, thus.

[zebowho]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
In my opinion, I'm afraid much of what's on Zeta Talk is nonsense.

Hi Niobe, I too will have to agree with Bill 100%. in fact 99.9% of her "Planet X images" are nothing more than sun dogs and/or lens flares...I've looked at them all. I wouldn't walk away from these guys...I'd RUN!

[atut]

So what do you believe is that there is no Planet X (Nibiru) and Poleshift?

[atut]

As Zeta predicted about the sinking of Indonesia, it seems to be true.
I don't want to believe, but with what Nancy explained with proof and scientific data, it is pretty convincing.

Here is the link: http://poleshift.ning.com/profiles/b...age=2#comments
What do you think? Is it still nonsense?

[Barron]

Yes Nancy who spews forth Zetatalk material has consistently been wrong with most of her wee alien friends messages. Zetatalk is fearbased, very low vibrational, astral plane BS - period!

There are some much better sources of off-planet "wisdom" that you could seek out by attuning to their vibrations.....

[Eric J (Viking)]

One of the groups I work with posted a image of another body close to the sun, which was 'doctured' to look like Planet X ...

The 'poster' asked Nancy to ask the Zetas if it was genuine...She came back a few days later and had said that the Zetas had said that is was Planet X !!! OOOOPS!!!

Having said that, thats not to say that all the info she presents is all bull**** ... they have some good researchers there who are tuned into 'Earth changes' big time...There is strong evidence to suggest that we have had Pole shifts in the past...and, you have to admit we are undergoing extreme earth changes at the moment!! So some of the info is valid...

viking

[norman]

As this is the only search return for ROBERT SEPEHR I think I'll post this video here. ( in case others want to read some history of Sepehr )

I found this video very informative about genetic linkages in the roots of racial groups worldwide. I'm not an expert so others might know all this stuff and yawn but I certainly didn't, I was fascinated from start to finish.

Ancient Bloodlines and Lost Civilizations - ROBERT SEPEHR

Robert Sepehr is an author, producer and anthropologist specializing in linguistics, archeology, and paleobiology (archeogenetics)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S9H5jFcUONc

Published on Jul 6, 2016
Maori oral traditions state that, upon arrival in New Zealand, they found that there was a large, well-established population already living in the country. http://atlanteangardens.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/maori-legend-blonde-mummies-of-south.html

The inhabitants were described as having skin complexion that was white to light-ruddy, with eye colors from blue to green to darker tints.

Their hair color ranged from white and golden, with red being predominant in the general population.

The Maori term Pakeha, later used to describe white colonial Europeans, was derived from the ancient name Pakepakeha used to describe the former white population.

Pocket groups of these first inhabitants survived into the 20th century and are well-remembered by old-timers as the red headed, freckle-faced Maoris or Waka blondes.

Scholars probing definitions and development of the Maori term "Pakeha" (Maori name for white people) state the following:

The derivation seems to be from ‘Pakepakeha’ mythical people who are mischievous beings, with fair skin and hair who lived deep in the forest, coming out at night.


The ‘Pakepakeha’ are also linked to ‘Patupaiarehe’ by their fair skin and hair. The ‘Patupaiarehe’ had fair skin and beautiful voices, and gave people the secret of fishing with nets. These creatures’ possess canoes made of reeds, which can change magically into sailing vessels. The ‘Patupaiarehe’ can also be linked to Nahe’s version of Pakeha as an abbreviation of ‘Paakehakeha’, gods of the ocean who had the forms of fish and man (Biggs, 1988).

[Foxie Loxie]

Thanks, Norman, for introducing me to the work of Robert Sepehr! Most interesting!