Is the white light after we die a trap?

[greybeard]

I suppose it comes down to whether you want to believe in Non-duality (enlightenment) or not.
There is plenty of evidence first hand for this, Eckhart Tolle, Mooji, Adyashanti and many others including Tims account in spiritual section.
All stating that there is only one consciousness, awareness and you/we are that.
Yogananda stated that "The darkness comes from the same place as the light"
The enlightened in India are known to say "I am the totality all of it"
If you believe enlightened teachers the going into the light or not going into the light is irrelevant to what in reality you truly are.
If the body dies before enlightenment of the self then you have not graduated from the university of this world, then back you come in another body.

If you want to believe that others are in control and its dangerous to go into the light then I suspect you will come back here.
Teachers like Krishna the Buddha and virtually every other enlightened teacher have said find out who you truly are beyond concepts, belief systems, persona, the body and then you know you are One with "God" (or any other name for the Ultimate you chose.)
The Ultimate which is what you are is described as "One without a second" there is no other.

Believe what you wish but enlightenment is not a belief its a Self knowing fact.
No outside teacher influence is required as the Truth lies within everyone.
Teachers can point the way, but they are clear that the ultimate teacher lies within just waiting to be discovered.
Put no head above your own said The Buddha.

Chris

[Finefeather]

Posted by Pris (here)
how you can be so certain that those guys on the other side are benevolent particularly when they've 'orchestrated this universe and the afterlife'. It sounds... manipulative to me.

'As above so below'. If we're manipulated down here, why not 'up there'?

I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Sure there are forces which can be quite scary to confront but...

When we complete a life there is more than enough assistance for you to safely get through these lower worlds and there is a 99% chance that you will not even know that this 'place' existed. You have to be very 'evil' minded and truly indoctrinated to encounter these forces.

These forces if encountered are NOT some army of evil warriors with all forms of weapons and tactics to capture you and torture you ...they are simply dark energies which influence the weak minded and those who have been mind manipulated on earth by people who have no idea themselves of what really happens when we cross over after a life...they will be more than pleased, when they discover all the BS that people have inundated them with during their willingness to belief anything.

And quess what? These dark forces are nothing more that our brothers and sisters who have fallen into the trap of materialism, jealousy, hatred, power madness and a love for themselves and a desire to only seek self gratification...and to hell with anyone or anything else. (please excuse my tone...I only sound mad...actually I'm so happy...because I know the truth about this)

Posted by Pris (here)
This 'balancing out' thing obviously doesn't work because here we are yet again. If it's true, you'd think after thousands of years and how many lifetimes (supposedly) we'd have it right by now. This karma thing seems to go hand-in-hand with this mind-wiped reincarnation thing. I strongly feel we need to remember. This 'school of hard knocks' idea where we're all here to learn and grow without our past-life memories to influence us -- I don't buy it. Sounds more like a self-perpetuating prison... but, it requires your consent. No consent, no prison.

This 'balancing out' thing you mention is one of the laws of life and it is the most just form of 'justice' in the Cosmos...if those who commit all their 'evil' deeds and thoughts knew just how exact and right this 'justice' was they would think twice before acting.

Karma...or more easily...Sowing and Reaping is a fundamental law of life...no one in existence can bypass it and no one can save us from it...even our god...if we have one...is not immune to it.

You also mention the 1000s of years to get it right...well...most of those 1000s of years and incarnations we actually spent messing it up during our barbaric life stage...which many still live by...there is nothing wrong with this because life is about evolution of consciousness...and you cannot expect a person to know everything when he/she is still so ignorant.

Do you think you are not ignorant? ...well, with all the respect in the world...we are all very ignorant still...it's only our egos who cannot admit to this ignorance...let me offer you something I have learnt in my life...after many years of thinking how great and clever I was...the more you know the more you realise just how little you know.

Posted by Pris (here)
I have trouble with 'The Law of One' as well because of this 'Ra' character and the apparent connection with the 'archons' ('the Authorities'). Sounds like a 'fourth dimensional' construct. Anything 'hierarchical/authoritarian' waves red flags in my face.

Here's another example of an 'archon': Archangel Michael. It's right there in the name.

I sincerely would suggest that you should gain some knowledge about what exactly an 'archon' is...and not get the impression of it that is been claimed in another thread on this forum.

Archons are no more that our Dark brothers who have gone astray and THEY are the ones who are imprisoned in the lower realms you call 'the afterlife'...NOT US...the average Arthur and Martha of the world. The ;afterlife' you talk so easily about is far from what the reality of the 'afterlife' actually is.

Posted by Pris (here)
I've heard that this whole solar system was set up as an elaborate prison to hold us here on Earth. That may or may not be true, but it certainly makes me 'think'.

Well you see...you have only heard of it...never experienced it...and yet you have formed such a fearful concept of it...just what would it take to change your mind?

Why do you not form a more positive attitude about these beliefs you have when someone tells you something different?...why do you ONLY belief the doom and gloom brigade when they have not even experienced what they claim?

Take care now and much love to yourself
Ray

[Finefeather]

Posted by Agape (here)
The souls who are not mature enough in life, did not develop enough individuality, are part of the 'hive mind' , now and also 'then after' . It's not a complete loss but it is a 'mess' , and they come back with shared memories and weak sense of individuality again.

I think that the souls who are not mature enough in life, have developed too much individuality...are we not attempting to realise unity and brotherhood?

It is separation which causes conflict...not brotherhood...we should not confuse a lack of individuality with a hive state, when all higher Beings are actually part of a collective mind...and even then I see great work in the bees when they work for the good of the hive.

Love to you
Ray

[Pris]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Pris (here)
how you can be so certain that those guys on the other side are benevolent particularly when they've 'orchestrated this universe and the afterlife'. It sounds... manipulative to me.

'As above so below'. If we're manipulated down here, why not 'up there'?

I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Sure there are forces which can be quite scary to confront but...

When we complete a life there is more than enough assistance for you to safely get through these lower worlds and there is a 99% chance that you will not even know that this 'place' existed. You have to be very 'evil' minded and truly indoctrinated to encounter these forces.

These forces if encountered are NOT some army of evil warriors with all forms of weapons and tactics to capture you and torture you ...they are simply dark energies which influence the weak minded and those who have been mind manipulated on earth by people who have no idea themselves of what really happens when we cross over after a life...they will be more than pleased, when they discover all the BS that people have inundated them with during their willingness to belief anything.

And quess what? These dark forces are nothing more that our brothers and sisters who have fallen into the trap of materialism, jealousy, hatred, power madness and a love for themselves and a desire to only seek self gratification...and to hell with anyone or anything else. (please excuse my tone...I only sound mad...actually I'm so happy...because I know the truth about this)

Posted by Pris (here)
This 'balancing out' thing obviously doesn't work because here we are yet again. If it's true, you'd think after thousands of years and how many lifetimes (supposedly) we'd have it right by now. This karma thing seems to go hand-in-hand with this mind-wiped reincarnation thing. I strongly feel we need to remember. This 'school of hard knocks' idea where we're all here to learn and grow without our past-life memories to influence us -- I don't buy it. Sounds more like a self-perpetuating prison... but, it requires your consent. No consent, no prison.

This 'balancing out' thing you mention is one of the laws of life and it is the most just form of 'justice' in the Cosmos...if those who commit all their 'evil' deeds and thoughts knew just how exact and right this 'justice' was they would think twice before acting.

Karma...or more easily...Sowing and Reaping is a fundamental law of life...no one in existence can bypass it and no one can save us from it...even our god...if we have one...is not immune to it.

You also mention the 1000s of years to get it right...well...most of those 1000s of years and incarnations we actually spent messing it up during our barbaric life stage...which many still live by...there is nothing wrong with this because life is about evolution of consciousness...and you cannot expect a person to know everything when he/she is still so ignorant.

Do you think you are not ignorant? ...well, with all the respect in the world...we are all very ignorant still...it's only our egos who cannot admit to this ignorance...let me offer you something I have learnt in my life...after many years of thinking how great and clever I was...the more you know the more you realise just how little you know.

Posted by Pris (here)
I have trouble with 'The Law of One' as well because of this 'Ra' character and the apparent connection with the 'archons' ('the Authorities'). Sounds like a 'fourth dimensional' construct. Anything 'hierarchical/authoritarian' waves red flags in my face.

Here's another example of an 'archon': Archangel Michael. It's right there in the name.

I sincerely would suggest that you should gain some knowledge about what exactly an 'archon' is...and not get the impression of it that is been claimed in another thread on this forum.

Archons are no more that our Dark brothers who have gone astray and THEY are the ones who are imprisoned in the lower realms you call 'the afterlife'...NOT US...the average Arthur and Martha of the world. The ;afterlife' you talk so easily about is far from what the reality of the 'afterlife' actually is.

Posted by Pris (here)
I've heard that this whole solar system was set up as an elaborate prison to hold us here on Earth. That may or may not be true, but it certainly makes me 'think'.

Well you see...you have only heard of it...never experienced it...and yet you have formed such a fearful concept of it...just what would it take to change your mind?

Why do you not form a more positive attitude about these beliefs you have when someone tells you something different?...why do you ONLY belief the doom and gloom brigade when they have not even experienced what they claim?

Take care now and much love to yourself
Ray

I truly appreciate your thoughts on this, Ray.

Posted by Finefeather (here)
I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Yes... personal experience. It is still possible you are being manipulated without your knowing it. I don't think there's anything wrong with me having 'so much to say about it'. Maybe it's my lack of 'personal experience' that allows me to remain objective.

This 'balancing out' thing you mention is one of the laws of life and it is the most just form of 'justice' in the Cosmos...

Who says it is a 'law of life'? Any time I hear words like 'law' or 'justice', I get a little more than suspicious.

Do you think you are not ignorant? ...well, with all the respect in the world...we are all very ignorant still...it's only our egos who cannot admit to this ignorance...let me offer you something I have learnt in my life...after many years of thinking how great and clever I was...the more you know the more you realise just how little you know.

I never suggested I am without 'ignorance'. This conversation we're having shows we're both doing what we can to alleviate that. "The more you know the more you realize just how little you know." Since you suggest you know more about this subject than I, perhaps you now know less than I.

I sincerely would suggest that you should gain some knowledge about what exactly an 'archon' is...and not get the impression of it that is been claimed in another thread on this forum.

Archons are no more that our Dark brothers who have gone astray and THEY are the ones who are imprisoned in the lower realms you call 'the afterlife'...NOT US...the average Arthur and Martha of the world. The ;afterlife' you talk so easily about is far from what the reality of the 'afterlife' actually is.

I don't think I'm as far off the mark on this as you seem to suggest, but I do thank you for your concern, and I shall keep my feelers up.

Why do you not form a more positive attitude about these beliefs you have when someone tells you something different?...why do you ONLY belief the doom and gloom brigade when they have not even experienced what they claim?

I no longer blindly trust anything I hear that's supposed to have my 'best interests' at heart -- especially that which is 'status quo'. 'Once bitten, twice shy.'

Lol the 'doom and gloom brigade'? I don't see it as 'doom and gloom'. It's more like remaining alert and cautious -- rather that than follow the 'happy-happy joy-joy brigade'. Again, as far as your experience goes -- and I mean this with the deepest respect -- it's like the three blind men in a room with an elephant.

[Pris]

Posted by Shezbeth (here)
If you're doing it 'right', there is no choice to 'go towards' or 'go away' from the light. YOU are the light, and everything ELSE is illusion.

I'm sorry, I seemed to have spilled some seasoning.

That about hits the nail on the head.

I am the light.

I guess my question is, 'So, now what?' Do I go off and fabricate myself my very own tropical island world so I can lie on a beach and sip fresh mango juice while goldfish shoals nibble at my toes?

[BF88]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Was it the same every time you have been there? I mean in the sense of looking the same, the same feel to it, the same beings waiting for you to return, if anyone actually was waiting for you? Also if you don't mind what was the nature of your rescue work? I only ask to help with my own understanding of my previous experiences. Thank you.

[Agape]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Agape (here)
The souls who are not mature enough in life, did not develop enough individuality, are part of the 'hive mind' , now and also 'then after' . It's not a complete loss but it is a 'mess' , and they come back with shared memories and weak sense of individuality again.

I think that the souls who are not mature enough in life, have developed too much individuality...are we not attempting to realise unity and brotherhood?

It is separation which causes conflict...not brotherhood...we should not confuse a lack of individuality with a hive state, when all higher Beings are actually part of a collective mind...and even then I see great work in the bees when they work for the good of the hive.

Love to you
Ray

Brotherhood, natural love , friendship and compassion we share among all sorts of existences and forms of Life is not the point here , it's natural and essential on the level of existence where we want to abide and call 'home' .

That 'place' ( state of existence ) is neither devoid of sovereignty, individuality or great love among beings . It's a reality place not a lonely heaven where do we come from.

What 'hive mind' and 'collectivism' does to people on earth, in its low forms is mostly mean and lowly , dragging the force down to animal like state , sure it has positive side like all else ..
but great spiritual work is not possible for those who think they can surpass individualisation of their 'ego' and think they can't survive separation from their brothers and sisters , friends and families ,
speaking of human experience .. they evolve together over millions of years, and perish together as well .
Human 'soul' can be pure as any other 'soul' is . As long as ready to stand for your self without twists .

[Finefeather]

Posted by BF88 (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)
I have been in this 'afterlife' you are referring to...many times...I have done rescue work there for many years...and I can state from personal experience that the manipulation is only a result of our own ignorance and our gullibility to believe people who have never experienced this place...yet they have so much to say about it.

Was it the same every time you have been there? I mean in the sense of looking the same, the same feel to it, the same beings waiting for you to return, if anyone actually was waiting for you? Also if you don't mind what was the nature of your rescue work? I only ask to help with my own understanding of my previous experiences. Thank you.

The part of the 'astral' world I work in mainly is the lower areas...'astral' is an incorrect term used for the emotional world...but I will use it anyway because most have some idea of what it is...even if it is not quite accurate.

In these lower levels are many types of entities...there are many humans there in various degrees or states of being.

Some are moving from a life to the place which they are attuned to in a higher 'astral' world...

Some are on their way down, from their world, whatever it may be, to link up with a new body for a new incarnation...or even to take over a body which someone has agreed to.

Some are very powerful and have formed organised 'gangs' very similar to the mafia...they are unable to incarnate because they have given up, or lost their causal, or incarnating 'bodies', because of their 'evil ways', which was their own choice...the only think left for them to do is to try their best to influence people, and possess bodies on the earth plain...this way they can continue their mindset. These are the real prisoners in this planet. There are those who are extremely advanced dark magicians and run the 'gangs'...these are what is known as 'Archons' they are the rulers of the dark 'astral' worlds...they are not very effective if one has advanced beyond a certain level of consciousness and you have been trained to deal with their advances.

Some are in a state which I can only describe as confused, lost and or in a high degree of panic and fear...these are the ones I am able to assist.
The reason I can assist them is because higher beings cannot easily access these lower worlds from higher worlds, and I have been trained to access these worlds for the sole purpose of 'rescuing' those stuck in these worlds for various reasons.
For example, I helped some Libyan children back to their world when their homes were bombed flat during the Libyan war. They were huddled in a room, all 'dead' but separated from their bodies and totally confused.

Each time I leave my body for a rescue I climb out my body then move from my room through the wall and then I am guided to the place where I need to attempt to assist. The world I rescue from mainly is an exact replica of the physical world, because it is the physical world in a slightly different dimension or state...normally the first place we are aware of after death...but when I move to higher worlds these are often very different, very beautiful and are like cities and towns with many people on the same level living there...I return to my room when completed and climb back into my body.

I cannot say much more because there is just too much to say, but you can read some of this in the 'Astral Projection' group on this forum.

Take care
Ray

[Finefeather]

Posted by Agape (here)
Brotherhood, natural love , friendship and compassion we share among all sorts of existences and forms of Life is not the point here , it's natural and essential on the level of existence where we want to abide and call 'home' .

That 'place' ( state of existence ) is neither devoid of sovereignty, individuality or great love among beings . It's a reality place not a lonely heaven where do we come from.

What 'hive mind' and 'collectivism' does to people on earth, in its low forms is mostly mean and lowly , dragging the force down to animal like state , sure it has positive side like all else ..
but great spiritual work is not possible for those who think they can surpass individualisation of their 'ego' and think they can't survive separation from their brothers and sisters , friends and families ,
speaking of human experience .. they evolve together over millions of years, and perish together as well .
Human 'soul' can be pure as any other 'soul' is . As long as ready to stand for your self without twists .

I understand what you are saying and agree with you from the perspective you are coming from.

What you are saying relates to going out and becoming wise to the world...stand up on your own 2 feet and drag no one down because of your own doing...this even happens in the animal world when the mother bird kicks the baby bird out the nest and says "off you go now and look after yourself"..."don't forget to send me a post card now and again"

Sovereignty is certainly a thing to strive for and attain...but sovereignty, from an esoteric view, does not imply single mindedness...it assumes a state of wisdom...and wisdom knows that in the bigger scheme the individual is of no concern because we are a unity in life...not a separation.

Much Love to you...golden girl
Ray

[BF88]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
The reason I can assist them is because higher beings cannot easily access these lower worlds from higher worlds

Thank you for your reply.

Is the reason they can not come here due to the heaviness/density/compactness (I can't think of the right word)of this world? Would you agree with me if i suggested the reason for this is the time it takes or difficulty and effort it takes to adjust to the 'climate' or dense/heavy/solid nature? I have fragmented memories of being in these between world places you describe although as a passer through i suppose you could call it.

It is amazing you can do these things out of body, although i can imagine a degree of satisfaction being able to help other beings in this way i imagine seeing terrible things such as what you have described to be quite traumatic.

[Agape]

Posted by Finefeather (here)
Sovereignty is certainly a thing to strive for and attain...but sovereignty, from an esoteric view, does not imply single mindedness...it assumes a state of wisdom...and wisdom knows that in the bigger scheme the individual is of no concern because we are a unity in life...not a separation.

More wisdom I'm trying to have in this world .. and with this human world especially , more I feel I'm losing it ..
single mindedness is probably 'not right the state of wisdom' with most people but in my own mind/ life /experience , it usually was tended to be that way ..

it's been the 'innate wisdom ' or spiritual intelligence I used to rely on rather than any acquired one and though I tried to 'switch' to someones elses dominant wisdoms times to times it seldom payed off well .. in life terms .

Guess I experience myself more as a 'wholeness navigator' when it comes to this world rather than 'wise elder' as expected ..
it's a strange world ..

Thanks Ray . Wish I understand more of what's going on in 'my world' right now but it won't happen unless I'm one leg trapped in someones elses ..

Love to you

[Finefeather]

Posted by BF88 (here)
Is the reason they can not come here due to the heaviness/density/compactness (I can't think of the right word)of this world? Would you agree with me if i suggested the reason for this is the time it takes or difficulty and effort it takes to adjust to the 'climate' or dense/heavy/solid nature? I have fragmented memories of being in these between world places you describe although as a passer through i suppose you could call it.

It is amazing you can do these things out of body, although i can imagine a degree of satisfaction being able to help other beings in this way i imagine seeing terrible things such as what you have described to be quite traumatic.

Please note that some subjects are just too difficult for me to explain in language and so I need to point out that it is often a struggle to get the correct idea accross...but i'll do my best. Also there are many many different scenarios to this subject and I am attempting to give a very generalised picture of it.

We...as a true Self...and no there is no such thing as us having a higher self...there is just the one Self, even though we cannot quite get our minds around how this works yet...actually have 5 different 'bodies' which we inhabit during incarnation...we have the physical organism, the etheric energy envelope, the emotional envelope, the mental envelope and the causal envelope, all at the same time. They are all in the same space and time as we think of it. The problem is that most people cannot see these 'bodies' and so we are generally unaware of them.

In the physical world we only have senses which can detect a certain frequency and beyond that we are 'blind'...you must have noticed in your life when you gaze at a cloud and it seems to disappear as it evaporated into thin air...well it does not disappear it has just changed into a frequency which we are unable to visually sense.

Science already is starting to catch up because they now know that what they originally thought was the smallest bit of matter...the atom...is in fact not so and they have now discovered that even the electrons and protons are not solid...this goes on for a lot longer though, and science will not find the end to it...or the god particle...because no physical instrument will ever be capable of detecting the minuteness of the primordial atom.

So the thing is to try to imagine what these bodies/envelopes do to our consciousness by the time we reach the physical brain consciousness. Each of these envelopes (envelopes are the bodies as seen in the aura and extent outward from the physical body) modifies and colours the waking consciousness and, to an extent...which is determined by a number of things...attenuates or blocks our true memories and consciousness, and although this sounds like a bad thing, it is not necessarily so.

When we...the true Self...step out of our physical bodies we are active in the next higher 'body', which is the emotional body...the etheric body never disconnects except at death, because it keeps the physical body alive and connected to our true Self.

The true Self is now operating in the emotional body and so attenuation is less severe and other senses are present to sense this world...we do not have the 5 physical body senses now...We can also now step out of the emotional body and become active in the mental body and again attenuation of consciousness is less and other senses come into play.

This is how we move around from a dense world to a less dense higher world...I guess you could say that we evaporate into higher worlds...and you won't be far from the truth In the last word it is a light display...where we focus and un-focus our awareness and thus consciousness...we are Beings of light...never forget that.

So after that rather inadequate little jabber, to answer your question, the reason higher Beings cannot reach these lower worlds is simply because they do not have these bodies/envelopes in which to operate in lower worlds. There are other ways which even higher Beings reach the physical world but it's too involved to go into here.

Time does not come into the equation because time is always constant for each world and it is just a matter of choosing the right moment.

You should not get the impression that I am some lone ranger on a claimed ego trip to gain some points out of what appears to be a good deed. Sure I am more than willing to assist where I can...I did volunteer...and there are thousands of us doing this work...and you or anyone on this forum could very well be doing the same thing...even if you or they might be totally unaware of it...so I am not even close to being unique or even special...far from it...I am just a Being like everyone else in this planet...and Cosmos.

Take care
Ray

[Sebastion]

Ray, I concur pretty much 100% with your post and it is very well written. I especially liked your use of the word "evaporate", that's a cool way of stating it!

I just wanted to add to where you left off that in my experiences in the great beyond, and above the material worlds, one evaporates (lol), experiences the Soul-Light body which is beyond the meaning of brilliant and quite exquisite. There aren't any words in any language to describe it adequately. One has to experience it to know. When one learns to give up any attachments to it then one is free to travel, as it were to even higher frequencies, regions, of Light. Beyond that one experiences god realization, meaning there is no "I" for one becomes all things and no thing simultaneously. There are no thoughts of "I" because it has no meaning whatsoever.

Beyond that is the Great Heart of the One, Itself. It is here that words seriously start falling apart as any words used are but a dim shadow of what IS, as it can only be experienced and never adequately described. Suffice it to say that it is Love Absolute, so deep, so profound that it cannot even be approached in understanding by human imagination. The Heart Of One is wholly complete and completely whole within Itself. Even the terms I am using here are inadequate by a long shot, but at least you start to get the "idea". That is the ultimate experience and was the culmination of my spiritual journey.

Again Ray, excellent post...

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by BF88 (here)
Is the reason they can not come here due to the heaviness/density/compactness (I can't think of the right word)of this world? Would you agree with me if i suggested the reason for this is the time it takes or difficulty and effort it takes to adjust to the 'climate' or dense/heavy/solid nature? I have fragmented memories of being in these between world places you describe although as a passer through i suppose you could call it.

It is amazing you can do these things out of body, although i can imagine a degree of satisfaction being able to help other beings in this way i imagine seeing terrible things such as what you have described to be quite traumatic.

Please note that some subjects are just too difficult for me to explain in language and so I need to point out that it is often a struggle to get the correct idea accross...but i'll do my best. Also there are many many different scenarios to this subject and I am attempting to give a very generalised picture of it.

We...as a true Self...and no there is no such thing as us having a higher self...there is just the one Self, even though we cannot quite get our minds around how this works yet...actually have 5 different 'bodies' which we inhabit during incarnation...we have the physical organism, the etheric energy envelope, the emotional envelope, the mental envelope and the causal envelope, all at the same time. They are all in the same space and time as we think of it. The problem is that most people cannot see these 'bodies' and so we are generally unaware of them.

In the physical world we only have senses which can detect a certain frequency and beyond that we are 'blind'...you must have noticed in your life when you gaze at a cloud and it seems to disappear as it evaporated into thin air...well it does not disappear it has just changed into a frequency which we are unable to visually sense.

Science already is starting to catch up because they now know that what they originally thought was the smallest bit of matter...the atom...is in fact not so and they have now discovered that even the electrons and protons are not solid...this goes on for a lot longer though, and science will not find the end to it...or the god particle...because no physical instrument will ever be capable of detecting the minuteness of the primordial atom.

So the thing is to try to imagine what these bodies/envelopes do to our consciousness by the time we reach the physical brain consciousness. Each of these envelopes (envelopes are the bodies as seen in the aura and extent outward from the physical body) modifies and colours the waking consciousness and, to an extent...which is determined by a number of things...attenuates or blocks our true memories and consciousness, and although this sounds like a bad thing, it is not necessarily so.

When we...the true Self...step out of our physical bodies we are active in the next higher 'body', which is the emotional body...the etheric body never disconnects except at death, because it keeps the physical body alive and connected to our true Self.

The true Self is now operating in the emotional body and so attenuation is less severe and other senses are present to sense this world...we do not have the 5 physical body senses now...We can also now step out of the emotional body and become active in the mental body and again attenuation of consciousness is less and other senses come into play.

This is how we move around from a dense world to a less dense higher world...I guess you could say that we evaporate into higher worlds...and you won't be far from the truth In the last word it is a light display...where we focus and un-focus our awareness and thus consciousness...we are Beings of light...never forget that.

So after that rather inadequate little jabber, to answer your question, the reason higher Beings cannot reach these lower worlds is simply because they do not have these bodies/envelopes in which to operate in lower worlds. There are other ways which even higher Beings reach the physical world but it's too involved to go into here.

Time does not come into the equation because time is always constant for each world and it is just a matter of choosing the right moment.

You should not get the impression that I am some lone ranger on a claimed ego trip to gain some points out of what appears to be a good deed. Sure I am more than willing to assist where I can...I did volunteer...and there are thousands of us doing this work...and you or anyone on this forum could very well be doing the same thing...even if you or they might be totally unaware of it...so I am not even close to being unique or even special...far from it...I am just a Being like everyone else in this planet...and Cosmos.

Take care
Ray

[donk]

So it seems that this is now part of the “alternative media” menu now, and gets a mention in nearly every topic—as it can be related to almost everything, especially in the “conspiracy” realm…all roads lead here.

It occurs to me that I was thinking about it a little superficially. It is not just the fear of death, the destruction of our physical vehicle, at the heart of this idea—it is actually a level deeper.

Now, for those who have dealt with and transcended that fear of death, processed it into the helpful survival instinct it should be, while living a fulfilling life NOT allowing thoughts and decisions to be driven by that primal part of our being—we have this newer, more sophisticated fear in our awareness: the manipulation of the very energy of what we truly are.

A good friend, who I deeply trust, told me that HE KNOWS, beyond doubt, that we choose our incarnation. I want to get on board with this idea, and I asked how much choice do we have as to how our life goes.

He relates: “The further we advance, the closer we get to the process, the more we may influence it from ‘down here’, so to speak. The most unawakened is let by the highest self, the fully realized interacts with what’s just across the veil.”

That makes sense to me. And this thought is the polar antithesis to the op, which has to my perception seems to be a seed that quickly sprouted, the idea of more aware beings trapping our consciousness and using it for….whatever it is they do that for—I believe the prevailing theme is use it in some selfish way not necessarily for our growth and benefit.

Like most things, I believe there may be truth somewhere in there, but most likely both ideas are incomplete. The thing that both hint at though, is that it may be possible to acquire knowledge about this between life stage (both of these ideas assume reincarnation, right?)

Which begs the question: how do we obtain usable information regarding what happens to whatever it is that we are when we leave this physical incarnation? Is it important (to us personally, to the universe as a whole?) to have a degree of control or conscious awareness of what happens? Why?

And of course—what keeps me coming back to alternative forums: what is the intent of those transmitting these ideas into the collective consciousness?

I believe my friend is well-intended, and feels that sharing his knowing of what will happen sets others at ease taking away some of the fear of death itself…by creating a reality where you are in control of what happens.

I believe those who are well-intended that transmit what they “know” of the white light is a trap believe not allowing others to manipulate our being has a purpose that they either believe it will be “better” for an individual’s well-bing/growth/soul journey/whatever or perhaps an even a greater-than-individual purpose.

To look at these from an service-to-self level, you could say my friend is being lulled to a false sense of security, and the other is creating unnecessary fear.

This is where I am right now, how I see this “reality”. Does anyone else notice it as a “phenomenon”, sort of an event that these ideas were rolled out into our awareness? Is it a different manifestation of something that has been around? Or a complete distraction from our actual shared reality?

[TrumanCash]

I have seen this thread keep popping up from time to time, which I think is an indication that it is important to people as well as being mysterious.

What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

This subject is very touchy for some because it necessarily touches on the subject of religion. After all, people often report seeing dead relatives in NDEs or receiving divine knowledge and so forth. If taken literally it would indicate the existence of "heaven", an after life where one can still have one's body that one had in the earthly life and continue living forever without aging or death.

But what if it's an illusion? What if it's an intended deception? It appears on its face that there are sentient beings behind this phenomenon who are apparently creating and perpetuating it. Why aren't they being up front about it and telling us what it's all about? Why all the secrecy? Is that a red flag we should pay attention to?

What I and many other people have discovered for ourselves is that this is one of the biggest secrets.

What I discovered is that one can discover for himself or herself what this is all about. To do so one must conduct extensive past life therapy and research. In doing so, the in-between lives incidents will start to show up.

In short, the going-to-the-light phenomenon is accomplished with technology. The "light beings" that people see in NDEs are actually Mantis ETs who use an ability which can best be described as telepathic hypnosis. The Mantis ETs work in a coordinated conspiracy to establish dead end religions on this planet as well as secret societies to keep us in a state of confusion and chaos, which equates to spiritual darkness. Fortunately, things are indeed changing and we appear to be gradually evolving out of that paradigm.

I have also commented on this phenomenon here.

[Ultima Thule]

After a lengthy time going through this thread, I now venture out to take part in it.

What has been said so far:

1. Light is a trap
2. Light is not a trap

Light might or might not therefore be a trap. No definite conclusions so far.

What is lacking (to me anyway) is:
1. Does light appear in every case?
2. If there is no light, then what?
3. How can it be said that the most real experience of many near death experiencers is to be discounted? (which is not at all aimed at discrediting Simon, I have immense respect for him)

My exhibit A:
In my own NDE - brief, but significant for me -
- there was no light, instead utter darkness. All encompassing love was there and a realization of going to a home forgotten, original, real home that has no equal. Can anyone comment on their opinion how to interpret that?
• Was my experience only too brief and I didn´t get to the part to see the light?
• Was my experience different and there was no light?
• Was my experience a real experience (which is what I very much felt) of the source or a trap?
- There was a distinct 90 degree turn before starting of in accelerating speed towards what I considered the source. Those familiar with Drunvalo Melchizedeks work might comment on that and perhaps other NDEs might also comment on that?
- regarding Greybeards etc. comments about enlightenment - all questions and ponderings about which thing or view or action was right were meaningless, there was no more duality between fear and love, only understanding how things "down there" are viewed from a different perspective than from "up here" and that is very important. Things are in any case just the way they are supposed to be, even though everything is changing all the time. Universe organizes itself every moment again and again to perfection.
- only reason to come back was because my family would´t from their perspective see things as I did from up there

Three possible options for reincarnation with memory loss taking place:
- the normal version, learning, growth, no point in knowing the rules, thus positive action without "knowing", more "valuable"
- trap-version, just bouncing souls back into a meaningless game
- furthermore, as a third version or appendix to the normal version I would say that the place/condition one experiences in NDE is of such magnitude of unconditional love and of a true home, so great that remembering that all the time actively when living a corporeal life, I´d say there would be no motivation whatsoever to stay in a corporeal body - why not just pull the plug and jettison oneself to home? After my NDE I view the forgetting an integral part in creating the wan´t to live and manage a corporeal, challenging, at times uncomfortable life.

Opinions?

UT

[WhiteLove]

I have not had a NDE experience myself, but my instinct about speculating in what choices to make beyond this realm is to here and now in this realm protect one's soul from the dangers and fears that the false/confusion of this kind of information might potentially bring, above all letting unconditional love be your truth anchor in your soul journey, I believe it is the key to everything! I have been taken to a different realm, that was not something I consciously had or felt I needed to have control over, it happened because it was done by a power/force above/beyond my/the human level that wanted me to gain great comfort and truth, I loved it, it was an overwhelming knowingness of truth, it felt utterly safe and it was beyond my wildest dreams to the point I did not want to go back. Having had that experience is something I am deeply humble and thankful about. Appreciation, gratitude and the safety of the good that is brought to your life here and now, is a card worth playing in the game of truth seeking, it brings clearity in a simple way. Take care everyone!

[seeker/reader]

Posted by TrumanCash (here)
What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

Truman,

Has your interview been published? Where is it located? Would you provide a link please?

Thank you,

Seeker/Reader

[greybeard]

Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
After a lengthy time going through this thread, I now venture out to take part in it.

What has been said so far:

1. Light is a trap
2. Light is not a trap

Light might or might not therefore be a trap. No definite conclusions so far.

What is lacking (to me anyway) is:
1. Does light appear in every case?
2. If there is no light, then what?
3. How can it be said that the most real experience of many near death experiencers is to be discounted? (which is not at all aimed at discrediting Simon, I have immense respect for him)

My exhibit A:
In my own NDE - brief, but significant for me -
- there was no light, instead utter darkness. All encompassing love was there and a realization of going to a home forgotten, original, real home that has no equal. Can anyone comment on their opinion how to interpret that?
• Was my experience only too brief and I didn´t get to the part to see the light?
• Was my experience different and there was no light?
• Was my experience a real experience (which is what I very much felt) of the source or a trap?
- There was a distinct 90 degree turn before starting of in accelerating speed towards what I considered the source. Those familiar with Drunvalo Melchizedeks work might comment on that and perhaps other NDEs might also comment on that?
- regarding Greybeards etc. comments about enlightenment - all questions and ponderings about which thing or view or action was right were meaningless, there was no more duality between fear and love, only understanding how things "down there" are viewed from a different perspective than from "up here" and that is very important. Things are in any case just the way they are supposed to be, even though everything is changing all the time. Universe organizes itself every moment again and again to perfection.
- only reason to come back was because my family would´t from their perspective see things as I did from up there

Three possible options for reincarnation with memory loss taking place:
- the normal version, learning, growth, no point in knowing the rules, thus positive action without "knowing", more "valuable"
- trap-version, just bouncing souls back into a meaningless game
- furthermore, as a third version or appendix to the normal version I would say that the place/condition one experiences in NDE is of such magnitude of unconditional love and of a true home, so great that remembering that all the time actively when living a corporeal life, I´d say there would be no motivation whatsoever to stay in a corporeal body - why not just pull the plug and jettison oneself to home? After my NDE I view the forgetting an integral part in creating the wan´t to live and manage a corporeal, challenging, at times uncomfortable life.

Opinions?

UT

This might be helpful Ultima Thule

Similar to part of your experience.

c
Bart Marshall ‘Only This Emptiness’ - Interview by Iain McNay
In the Vietnam War a mortar landed nearby that blew Bart into a clear and brilliant blackness that, “Felt like home. I would have gladly stayed in that blackness, but instead I was brought back into a world I could no longer view in the same way.”
When he returned in 1968 he experimented with LSD, read everything he could find that might offer clues to what had happened to him, studied meditation and attended workshops. After 20 years he hit a wall as a seeker and then met the teacher Richard Rose whom he studied with for 5 years. It was after a weekend with Douglas Harding that a breakthrough finally happened… “Being the source of everything that is nothing - everything and nothing, only this emptiness.”

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RCirEL0bchw

[TrumanCash]

Posted by seeker/reader (here)

Posted by TrumanCash (here)
What I discovered is that the reality behind it is knowable, subjectively, but not yet knowable for the general public, so to speak. I covered this subject in a recent interview for the Project Avalon Forum.

Truman,

Has your interview been published? Where is it located? Would you provide a link please?

Thank you,

Seeker/Reader

As far as I know they are still editing it and putting it together. The sound quality was a problem so I'm not sure how much they have to edit out, etc. Since the subject matter concerns ETs I would assume that they will post it in this section when finished.

TLC