Evidence That A Boeing 757 Really Did Impact the Pentagon on 9/11

[Dennis Leahy]

(The topic of this thread is the VT article.)

If you want, start a new thread titled, "Why I think the US government covered-up EVERYTHING about what really happened on 9/11 - except that a commercial 757 really did hit the Pentagon even if the damage on the face of the Pentagon is inexplicably way too small for a 757."

[Hervé]

Indeed, let's have a good look at PHYSICAL evidence in their time sequence:

Then, the people who point to the following as utterly impossible due to steel columns,etc.:

... have no qualms about using this next one as evidence it is utterly possible:

... even though they insist that the impact pulverized the "plane" completely, wings included:

A concrete wall hit by an F-4 fighter jet at 500 MPH:"The plane atomized with the impact, it just disappeared into dust - only the tips of the wings escaped total destruction. But the wall, designed to move and absorb energy, did its job well."
WMV video download (978kB)

The above was a test where an F-4 fighter jet (fighters are built more sturdy than passenger jets in order to survive despite combat

Yep, it's got to be strong joujou...

All right, enough cheerleading...

[...]
.... The job of seeders is to consistently challenge the purpose and accuracy of the information source (a process known as “cheerleading”) until authentic and well-meaning members of the audience begin to repeat the challenges by themselves.
[...]

[gripreaper]

The presumption, which we are being led to consider, is:

A plane hit the Pentagon, after terrorists overwhelmed the entire crew and passengers with box cutters, and was then piloted by an inexperienced terrorist who could not even control a Piper Cub, and he did an 80 degree descending corkscrew maneuver, which several seasoned pilots have testified is impossible, but this terrorist brought the plane within a few feet along the ground at "stall" speed, took out a few light poles which were not in line with the alleged path, and held this plane within feet of the ground without any ground scars, impacted the Pentagon, making a small entrance hole because the wings folded in on impact, at the exact location where the investigation of trillions of missing dollars was taking place, and the entire plane disintegrates within the small hole due to jet fuel, destroys all the evidence, and yet, a stewardess friend of one of the stewardesses on the flight, finds her severed arm with her bracelet in the debris, the same debris which just disintegrated an entire airplane, and there is NO video footage of any of this...

Please, would one of the mods please close this thread. In my opinion, this thread has trailed way off into the area of being designed to cause consternation and confusion, while there are many good threads here at Avalon for those who want the truth about 9-11. After 13 years, do we need this kind of inquiry which leads to nothing but discordance in the energy field?

I may get "warned" for what I am about to say, but Oouthere is really "out there", is disruptive in his line of reasoning, which is not consistent with any balanced logical analysis of all of the facts, and therefore is causing more harm than good.

[Oouthere]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
The presumption, which we are being led to consider, is:

A plane hit the Pentagon, after terrorists overwhelmed the entire crew and passengers with box cutters, and was then piloted by an inexperienced terrorist who could not even control a Piper Cub, and he did an 80 degree descending corkscrew maneuver, which several seasoned pilots have testified is impossible, but this terrorist brought the plane within a few feet along the ground at "stall" speed, took out a few light poles which were not in line with the alleged path, and held this plane within feet of the ground without any ground scars, impacted the Pentagon, making a small entrance hole because the wings folded in on impact, at the exact location where the investigation of trillions of missing dollars was taking place, and the entire plane disintegrates within the small hole due to jet fuel, destroys all the evidence, and yet, a stewardess friend of one of the stewardesses on the flight, finds her severed arm with her bracelet in the debris, the same debris which just disintegrated an entire airplane, and there is NO video footage of any of this...

Please, would one of the mods please close this thread. In my opinion, this thread has trailed way off into the area of being designed to cause consternation and confusion, while there are many good threads here at Avalon for those who want the truth about 9-11. After 13 years, do we need this kind of inquiry which leads to nothing but discordance in the energy field?

I may get "warned" for what I am about to say, but Oouthere is really "out there", is disruptive in his line of reasoning, which is not consistent with any balanced logical analysis of all of the facts, and therefore is causing more harm than good.

When did I ever say terrorist overpowered and flew the aircraft, can you find one instance? One of the supposed callers from a hijacked aircraft stated there was smoke on board, that indicates something far removed from box cutters. Perhaps the planes were gassed but the accuracy of the flights indicate remote flying, not a novice pilot.

Purdue university put together an engineered rendering of the Pentagon impact. Was Purdue also part of the cover-up? And stop saying the hole or impact area was small, it was not. Stop repeating misinformation, that is what got us in this discussion in the first place.

And I'm the one with imbalanced logic? Use real world logic and make these parts fit into your theory.

If you have a theory that actually works in the real world, please put it out here.

Consternation and confusion? If a few people get upset with me but others can see and accept facts vs beliefs, it is worth it. Knowing there is a "they" out there manipulating us makes living on this planet bad, but sitting back and doing nothing while people that consider themselves enlightened get lead down a path that makes us all look like flakes, that is even worse. We need to question what we are being told from both sides and test which parts hold water and which cannot.

[Oouthere]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
(The topic of this thread is the VT article.)

If you want, start a new thread titled, "Why I think the US government covered-up EVERYTHING about what really happened on 9/11 - except that a commercial 757 really did hit the Pentagon even if the damage on the face of the Pentagon is inexplicably way too small for a 757."

The only thing too small is the time ignoring analysis and actually looking at the impact area.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Oouthere (here)
but the accuracy of the flights indicate remote flying, not a novice pilot.

Ok, so place this in the broadest contextual canvas your mind can see and filter all of what you know through that context. Now, with that said, it lends credibility to the fact that 9-11 was an engineered false flag, so any information in regards to "who, what, where, when and why" coming from the same sources as those who perpetrated the false flag, is akin to asking the fox who just raided the hen house what happened to the chickens while there is still blood dripping from his chops.

So, shall we still debate whether it was a plane or a missile, the size of the hole, or the flight path? At this point, it matters not, even though the preponderance of evidence does NOT support the plane theory. Those at the Citco gas station across from the pentagon, all testified that the flight path of the white plane they saw approaching the pentagon is not the same as the official story.

When you add up all the discrepancies which occurred on 9-11, it is obvious to me that the entire event was ritualistic globalist machination, a total fraud. I'm not going to cherry pick pieces of it and debate them to try and fit the official version.

I've already spent 10 years and countless hours looking at everything imaginable about this event. If you have some new evidence, then bring that forward, otherwise I'm done with this thread.

[tnkayaker]

ATS has some questionable connections or so ive read.....no thanks, then there is the caddy comments made by some of the members to john lear and well from what i have read about lear, hes pretty respectable weather his deductions are correct or not is another thing, but his coming foward with his knowledge and experience of flying to support his comments is astounding, he knows his business plain and simple , and why would any mildly intelligence person jump over to ATS thinking what is going on at PA is something less than awsome...then again oh never mind

[Oouthere]

Posted by gripreaper (here)

Posted by Oouthere (here)
but the accuracy of the flights indicate remote flying, not a novice pilot.

Ok, so place this in the broadest contextual canvas your mind can see and filter all of what you know through that context. Now, with that said, it lends credibility to the fact that 9-11 was an engineered false flag, so any information in regards to "who, what, where, when and why" coming from the same sources as those who perpetrated the false flag, is akin to asking the fox who just raided the hen house what happened to the chickens while there is still blood dripping from his chops.

So, shall we still debate whether it was a plane or a missile, the size of the hole, or the flight path? At this point, it matters not, even though the preponderance of evidence does NOT support the plane theory. Those at the Citco gas station across from the pentagon, all testified that the flight path of the white plane they saw approaching the pentagon is not the same as the official story.

When you add up all the discrepancies which occurred on 9-11, it is obvious to me that the entire event was ritualistic globalist machination, a total fraud. I'm not going to cherry pick pieces of it and debate them to try and fit the official version.

I've already spent 10 years and countless hours looking at everything imaginable about this event. If you have some new evidence, then bring that forward, otherwise I'm done with this thread.

Actually the CITCO eye witnesses are one of the reasons people have to discount any black box or radar data. The phone calls could not have happened either if the data was correct. You do not think it important to get the details of the biggest war/political event in our lifetime correct? Thousands of people's lives have been lost because of this, if not 100,000's of thousands from the following war.

We owe it to our children, to those deceased, and to uphold truth to get things correct.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Oouthere (here)
We owe it to our children, to those deceased, and to uphold truth to get things correct.

We can't. There's not a decent piece of video footage, although there are hundreds of video's, they were all confiscated. The only photo's of any value are the one's released in the first 24 hours, undoctored. The only testimony of any value is from the first responders who had no bias or ax to grind, and only what they said in the first 24 hours. The rest is suspect.

The best we can do is to take all the available data and stay within the laws of physics, and develop the highest probability based on that. If you tell me that you know of a stewardess who found the severed arm of her friend, verified by a bracelet, in the debris field where the alleged plane disintegrated from jet fuel, then I see a major discrepancy and this data cannot be used to build your case. Using an animated video to prove that it was a plane does no constitute verifiable science based on the actual physics of the materials which were supposedly incinerated within the Pentagon. The physics just do not add up. The only relevant photo's of the hole in the building are those first taken. We cannot use conjecture, emotion, or go outside the laws of physics in order to make our case. Sorry.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by Oouthere (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
(The topic of this thread is the VT article.)

If you want, start a new thread titled, "Why I think the US government covered-up EVERYTHING about what really happened on 9/11 - except that a commercial 757 really did hit the Pentagon even if the damage on the face of the Pentagon is inexplicably way too small for a 757."

The only thing too small is the time ignoring analysis and actually looking at the impact area.

That is NOT a photo of the impact area. That is a photo of a damaged building, covered in smoke, over which some on-the-blackops-payroll troll has made some pretty lines, pretending that it defines an impact area. It is utterly astounding that you would present this as "evidence" of a gigantic, jumbo-jet-sized hole, especially when the clear photos of the face of the building - shown numerous times in this thread - shows CONCLUSIVELY that there is NOT a gigantic, jumbo-jet-sized hole in the building.

You can repeat, and repeat, and repeat the false assertion that there a gigantic, jumbo-jet-sized hole in the building until your last breath if you want, but no one with two eyes and a cerebellum believes you. You don't even believe yourself. It is impossible for you to be deceived by the smoky photo once you have seen the clear photo. You know it, I know it, every Avalonian that bothers to beat the dead horse of "how 9/11 was done" (yes, I'm guilty as charged) knows it, every guest of Avalon knows it. You are making a fool of yourself by shoveling that BS. The perpetrators of 9/11 did not have 100% control over the photographic forensic evidence. They WISH the clear photo of the face of the Pentagon (showing a small missile strike or possibly damage done by explosive charges) did not exist, but it does. A number of people here on Avalon have gone out of their way to be nice to you and to show you CONCLUSIVELY that the smoky picture with the cute neon lines drawn over it is incorrect, and that the clear photo clearly shows that the smoky photo's neon lines are either deliberate disinformation or are a premature guess made before the clear photo was available. The clear photo is available now, and clearly refutes the neon lines. If you insist on showing or pushing the smoke-obscured photo with "it fits the US government's official story" neon lines drawn over it again, you will be forever branded as a disinformation agent who is being paid from the missing 2.3 trillion dollars. Are you? If not, and you realize that 9/11 was a false-flag three-ring-circus, then when you see a piece of compelling "evidence", your brain should be whirring with ideas about how the requisite "anomalies" were staged and planted to befuddle the simple-minded and bolster the official narrative/big bad bedtime story about how Bin Laden's Boys took over NORAD, breached the world's most protected airspace and building, and exploded the WTC buildings to smithereens.

I see this as a last, last chance to back-off gracefully from promoting disinformation.

Dennis

[syrwong]

I suggest the closing of the thread before it out-post Simon's thread.

[Operator]

Whoaa, still discussing this topic? You are all wasting quality energy and the PTB must find this hilarious.

The only important ultimate goal is for the perpetrators to admit and speak the whole truth, period!
Humanity will not heal from this event until then. Simple principle, if someone does something wrong
he/she is the only one to correct it. No one else can do that for them.

So, as long as there is even a tiny fraction left that is not explained/motivated by them there is
every reason to get back to them (over and over again) and demand answers until they are all
satisfactory answered. Our only responsibility is to detect if we are being lied to or not.
Being an authority brings lots of privileges and luxuries with it but also the undeniable
responsibility to know what is going on and transparently share it with the public whom they
should represent. If they fail to do so they are not eligible to receive the public's tax dollars.

I think this should not only apply to the US government but to EVERY government. If WE know
we're being lied to every country's self-respecting intelligence agency should know and react
accordingly. Why aren't we all (in whatever country you live) more worried that governments
worldwide do not question the official storyline? It's an indication that something is terribly wrong
on this planet.

[Atlas]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by Oouthere (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
[...] the damage on the face of the Pentagon is inexplicably way too small for a 757."

The only thing too small is the time ignoring analysis and actually looking at the impact area.

That is NOT a photo of the impact area. That is a photo of a damaged building, covered in smoke, over which some on-the-blackops-payroll troll has made some pretty lines, pretending that it defines an impact area. It is utterly astounding that you would present this as "evidence" of a gigantic, jumbo-jet-sized hole, especially when the clear photos of the face of the building - shown numerous times in this thread - shows CONCLUSIVELY that there is NOT a gigantic, jumbo-jet-sized hole in the building. [...]

How could the 'remote-controlled plane/missile' hit the building in such a horizontal manner and hit the first floor without hitting the ground first ? I find it mind-numbing,

[TargeT]

When a strongly held belief is challenged, the Fight/Flight/Freeze mechanisms in our brain are activated.

The person with the strongly held belief will NOT change their mind regardless of the information presented to them, they are in a physiological state of panic, short term memory is lost, all that is left is the DEEPLY seeded NEED to defend the idea as-if-their-life-depends-on-it.

When you get that "flush" of emotional charge while responding to a comment, you are approaching or already in the above described state; when you neurotically and circularly argue a topic, the above state is probably the cause. This is not something that is easy to observe in ones self unless the individual is used to introspection, its hard to see.

[Cidersomerset]

I'm not that technically minded ,but I look at the bigger strategic picture of the
many odd events in the last 24 years since 1990 & the communist USSR
collapse . What I find that a lot of diverse threads are linked , I was just looking at
the 7/7 London psyop and it has all the hall marks of an updated 9/11 , four
separate attacks, immediate insinuating Al Quaeda, drills going on so the event
could be controlled . If you look at the BBC ' London under attack ' docu/drama
Panorama programme a year before. They state in the 'crisis' control room mock up
that the UK government has the right to monitor all media in the country under
the 'Reserved powers Act' . This probably applies to all countries , although not
needed as most central media polices itself and are monitored by the intel agencies
anyway, and if the odd reporter says something wrong or out of time with the script
like BBC's Jane Stanley with building 7 or Peter Powers with the 7/7 drills they are
soon played down then dismissed. In the 7/7 case they were learning from lessons
learn't from 9/11 imo ...

British Citizen Turns Himself In To Scotland Yard for not Believing Official 9/11 & 7/7 Stories

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...415#post884415

This also gives me a deeper insight into many of the other event manipulated thru
history especially in the last 200 years . From a basic view point of 'Quo Bono'
who benefited from 9/11 it seems like some Neo -Cons & Neo - Dems. Israel ,
Saudi , the imperial gulf states. The UK elite must be in the mix . thru the
global oil , weapons and Banksters links and other nations are persuaded or
abliged to join in like Canada , Australia and some NATO countries....

So on 9/11 we have three controlled demolitions and a missile attack and
possibly a plane shot down over Shanksville that disappeared down a black
hole in a field. All controlled by " ? elements " under cover of air drills.

While on 7/7 we had three bombs planted beneath the trains set off by
remote control and one on a bus . All controlled by " ? elements " under
cover of mock drills that went live after the bombs were activated, these
covered the real attackers tracks and prevented greater loss of life. While the
4 patsies who thought they were part of the drills were possibly assassinated
at Canary wharf.

part of a thread I posted the other day lays out logical evidence if not
'scientific' , but science is only valid until the next theory is proven...


=========================================
: 9/11 Firefighter Blows WTC 7 Cover-Up Wide Open // Twin Towers Fall A Planned Demolition: Richard Gage Interview

it was Rumsfelt:
http://www.farsight.org/demo/Mysteri...0_targets.html
watch the full video/report for all the details, sad to see what really happened.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=V4QXlnpu29w

Not only Rumsfeldt...........


Mineta and the secret orders of Cheney

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mGI5BmNd7AE

Uploaded on 7 Jun 2007


In 2003, Former Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta testified before the 9/11 Commission:

Mineta: "During the time that the airplane was coming into the Pentagon, there was a
young man who would come in and say to the Vice President...the plane is 50 miles out...
the plane is 30 miles out....and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young
man also said to the vice president "do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President
turned and whipped his neck around and said "Of course the orders still stand, have you
heard anything to the contrary!??"

==============================================================

NORAD Ordered to Stand Down on 9/11 by Dick Cheney

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wgcZ6TbwOok

Uploaded on 4 Mar 2011


On the morning of 9/11 Dick Cheney was surprisingly in controll of NORAD. This is the first time in history
a VP was incharge of the agency. Dick Cheney ordered NORAD to stand down on the morning of 9/11
allowing the planes to fly into theWTC and Pentagon. Credits to youtube user Thetruthwillout for the video.


=============================================================


9/11 CNN Pentagon Report - NO PLANE - Only Aired Once

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=7BNqgNvUhRQ

Pentagon Employee Witness Says There Was No Plane on 9-11-2001!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EIy9hjB3DGk

==================================================

9/11 : Pentagon Was Hit by a Cruise Missile - Proof!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ypc4ieJO0pg

==================================================

Rumsfeld on 9/11 ............PHOTO OP ! I'M A HERO !!!! FILM ME .....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ipxiGjgA5Xs

Uploaded on 6 Apr 2007


Donald Rumsfeld on the morning of 9/11, shown here helping carry a stretcher
right after the Pentagon was struck. In the middle of an attack on the U.S., he
had abandoned his post for the sake of this photo-op

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COINCIDENCE.....B------'s !!!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=p-OOrIZBzAU

Uploaded on 15 Aug 2011


On September 10, 2001, Donald Rumsfeld announced a "war on waste"
after an internal audit had found that the Pentagon was "missing" some
2.3 (Capital 'T') Trillion dollars in unaccounted assets.

On September 11th, this was as good as forgotten in the mainstream.

===================================================

US GENERAL SAYS NO PLANE HIT THE PENTAGON ON 911!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=W4JjlFWGRFc

===================================================

Freelance mainstream photographer took footage soon after the explosion,
the roof had not collapsed yet and there was no sign of plane wreckage.....

9/11 Truth: Pentagon Eyewitness Bob Pugh Tells His Story

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-xtEJ4zrIPM

Uploaded on 18 Aug 2008


Dogecoin tips welcome: DTj5FBa8juYDxVrbHSN8TrW6ugjVgidjWm

Interview with Bob Pugh, who was at the Pentagon on the morning of September
11, 2001. He has a lot of interesting things to say about the events of that morning.

===================================================

Cab Driver Involved In 9/11 Pentagon Attack Admits "It Was Planned" VERY INTERESTING!!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=kvyQ0vVwjqc

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...161#post876161

[Oouthere]

Posted by TargeT (here)
When a strongly held belief is challenged, the Fight/Flight/Freeze mechanisms in our brain are activated.

The person with the strongly held belief will NOT change their mind regardless of the information presented to them, they are in a physiological state of panic, short term memory is lost, all that is left is the DEEPLY seeded NEED to defend the idea as-if-their-life-depends-on-it.

When you get that "flush" of emotional charge while responding to a comment, you are approaching or already in the above described state; when you neurotically and circularly argue a topic, the above state is probably the cause. This is not something that is easy to observe in ones self unless the individual is used to introspection, its hard to see.

But you need to understand I've stood on both sides of the line. The complete "no plane" theory to a balanced approach that accounts for all aspects using only known technology. Truth is the most important thing, and I could not find truth in stating anything other than a 757 hit the Pentagon. There is no way a person can be honest with themselves and explain the parts in a logical manner that is consistent with anything other than a 757 impact. Otherwise it would have already been done.

I find it hard to believe I am being accused of be illogical when no one here can explain away the parts.

[Oouthere]

That's a lot to address.

I have little faith in RV. If it were so accurate, the sun would have already destroyed the earth and dozens of other predictions would have already came to pass as given by Mr. RV (Ed Dames). Yes, some get a few things right but it is not consistent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No one knows what the standing order was with Cheney (by the way, I think the man is evil). The countdown could have been the intercept of the Shanksville aircraft. There was a runway less than a minute away that normally had fighter aircraft and therefore probably had anti-aircraft ground systems as well. So unless you find the airman that did the countdown, you will not know what the reference is.

I personally believe Cheney and Rumsfeld both were part of 911 but only partial information on something this important cannot be totally weighed in the negative.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CNN no plane report - It looked like that at first glance, just when you dig deeper that you find that multiple rings had been penetrated and people had airplane parts land near their vehicles and laying on the lawn. One guy even said a missile, but all of the dozens of other witnesses say it was an aircraft.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April Gallop. I once held her in high esteem until things did not add up. How did she exit a penetration hole that was burning? Then you find that army SSgt Braman saw her exit a set of double doors that had blown open. His lungs were damaged from the jet fuel that Gallop said was not present. She had a concussion and I have seen numerous people with these while riding motocross. They cannot remember longer than a few seconds, asking the same question numerous times in a minute. She also tried to sue AA, so either she believes a 757 hit or she simply went for money. Either way, she played both sides of the line.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's plenty of info showing large amounts of debris that exited the hole. It is up to the person to believe or not, but at least a couple of the parts have been identified to fit a 757.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rumsfeld acted suspiciously on 911, I believe he is guilty as sin. No argument here, but no missile either.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stubblebine did great in his achievements but he's also a little off. He lost some of my respect when he started banging his head on the wall while trying to walk through it. But he's just wrong imo, the parts fit a 757, Purdue shows how the impact played out, and the generator damage fits perfectly for a 757 impact.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll finish this later.

[SPIRIT WOLF]

NO COMMERCIAL JET PILOTED BY AN INEXPERIENCED INDIVIDUAL CRASHED INTO THE PENTAGON ON 9/11, sorry for shouting but all those still buying the insane and innaccurate official story are getting tiresome. PLEASE CHECK WITH PROFESSIONALS, i.e. Pilots for 9/11 Truth, etc etc etc

[Oouthere]

Never said it did, I did say it was probably remoted in.

[jerry]

using wiki info in its self is your 1st problem end of story THANK YOU NUF SAID