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    Default No criticism

    Voltaire really hit the head with this one.





    The wave prefers no opposition but it realizes that it will be found out for what it is unless it at least has the 'appearance' of allowing opposition.
    I still have eyes to see what the world would have me see but that doesn't mean I believe. - Sara

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    Default Re: No criticism

    I agree. And I think under the same umbrella is my observation that the alternative community is more and more making the same big mistakes we said we were gathering elsewhere to get away from.

    Our critical thinking is fading of our own annointed sacred cows.

    People within the alternative community pick their 'truths', issues and heroes to align with, it becomes 'their' cause to fiercely defend.. and in the process become utterly blind and closed off to the failings and deceptions of their heroes. Makes for very easy manipulation of the so called awake community by the - don't forget, looooooong pre-planted and planned - clever controlled opposition who mix mud with cutting edge insight that makes people feel special that they can 'see' and hook them into aligning with them. Their critical thinking shuts off and they start making excuses for crap they at first would have found questionable.

    For example, I don't see any difference whatsoever in the way vaccine defenders nitpick and attack the attackers, keep listing all the good things they believe vaccines have done but completely ignore all the valid points being put on the table that undermines their sacred allegiance.... and the same nitpicking killing the messenger reaction of those defending Alex Jones recently HERE while totally ignoring the valid points being made of the clever conintelpro figure he sure adds up to behind that insider/exposer 'truth' persona. But... but... but... he's <flower flower flower>..... we need him.... he's done so much good... so what if he.... - people wrote as if personally attacked. But all those responses were everything but addressing the valid points that were clearly and unpersonalattackingly put on the table for observation.

    If muddying the waters like this was the long term goal of the controlled opposition to keep the truth disorganized and foment dissent among the dissenters, it's working admirably.
    Last edited by waves; 2nd June 2015 at 04:52.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    No criticism? Sometimes discernment is required to determine if criticism is justified.

    Mod hat on:

    The person you refer to displayed most of the classic signs of a shill, in his over the top attack on an alternative community public figure. Nothing personal, if he had attacked David Icke etc. he would have met with the same response from the moderation team.

    Avalon is Bill's living room, we are guests, and if one insists on starting an attack based on on a distorted, and biased extraction of out of context quotes, it will be pointed out this is what is going on. As was pointed out, threads started in hostile vein rather than with due diligence and a respectful attitude, do not do well, and almost never produce good results.

    A.D. attacked Bill Ryan's very polite post which stated that in his personal opinion to tar someone with a four minute clip extracted from thousands of hours of a daily on air show was perhaps uncalled for, in the light of millions of people brought to the awareness something is not right in our governmental systems.

    I have never watched AJ myself, don't want to, but I could not help but notice, the complaints of over the top emotional expression, is exactly what the poster did as well. See the list of invalidating, hostile NLP phrases used in one post (yes, one post), directed at Bill's personal opinion (which A.D. asked for!):

    Quote Posted by A.D. (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Would the world be a better place if Alex didn't exist? My answer is no... he's woken up literally millions of people. If his style isn't to one's liking, then there are plenty of others to listen to. Tuning in to his show is not compulsory.
    1. It's side stepping
    2. merely suggest
    3. It's pretty clear that myself, and the others here
    4. not address the facts
    5. merely saying
    6. same sad, dismissive
    7. merely a way
    8. dismiss any actual, valid
    9. just shrug off
    10. just as dismissive
    11. completely disregards
    12. in no way addresses
    13. those of us
    14. manipulation
    15. very obvious tactics
    16. We are doing something
    17. We are attempting
    18. rest of the herd
    19. We are attempting
    20. obvious deception
    21. sold to masses
    22. We are digging
    23. those psychological tactics
    24. in fact, Bill,
    25. even based
    26. clearly designed
    27. anger and hostility
    28. you dodged
    29. At no point
    30. the clear psychological
    31. the tactics used
    32. steer and manipulate
    33. beyond easy to fool
    34. psychology of the masses
    35. beyond easy to control
    36. understand how to exploit
    37. control society
    38. really bad
    39. ridiculously over-emoting, disingenuous, painfully bad
    40. I find it alarming
    41. obvious corruption and deception
    42. so easily deceived
    43. same exact tactics
    44. I find it alarming
    45. so easily swayed
    46. clearly not
    47. poisoned
    Classic, over the top, over emotional ranting shill language.

    I've bowdlerized and gutted the following the the sake of brevity:

    Quote Disinformation is either intentional distortion or telling lies. The intent behind disinfo is negative. The intent is to limit access to accurate information.

    Sign #1
    Propagandizing
    (Look For: Emotionalization, Oversimplification, & Slogans)


    When propaganda isn’t spotted for what it is, look out; done well, it will convey certainty and will echo the clarity of a truly wise being. Propaganda is information that is spread for the purpose of [b]promoting a cause[ /b]. Of course, because information is propagandist doesn’t mean that it’s untrue, but it does mean that there is an agenda—and agendas create a win/lose situation.

    Sign #2
    Poor Logic
    (Look For: Inconsistency & Logical Fallacy)


    So look for inconsistencies. That’s where you’ll find the distortions and lies. And keep an eye out for fallacious reasoning. Logical fallacies are deliberately employed by disinfo artists because they play upon common weaknesses.

    Wherever there are constellations of logical fallacies, many of them grouped together, beware. It takes a lot of mental work to imbed red herrings and set up straw man arguments. Obviously, a person could do that subconsciously in an attempt to justify his or her belief system, but it could also imply that there’s intentional distortion.

    Sign #3
    Falsehoods
    (Look For: Lies, Omissions, & Distortions)


    Yes, this sign is self-evident; but I bring it up because it’s all too easy to rationalize away a blatant inconsistency or lie in the face of other information that gets you good results and checks out logically and intuitively. But living according to a belief system with a glaring lie in it is like continuing to eat a sandwich with moldy cheese because the meat and bread are still fresh.

    Sign #4
    Consistently Extreme Point-of-View
    (Look For: Forcefulness)


    By extreme point-of-view I mostly mean views that are judgmental or condemning. In American politics, this sign takes the forms of liberal-bashing or Bush-bashing. In the spiritual circle, an example is the fundamental Scientologist’s take on drugs and psychology, or even the fundamental Buddhist’s take on eating meat. An Always or Never-type of extremism creates categories of good and evil based upon memorized lists instead of being based upon the work of discernment. It may be technically true that eating meat lowers the soul’s vibration, but ask yourself, is it never useful to lower it?

    Extreme views very often reflect or lead to bad logic. In the case of the fundamental Scientologist I’ve heard “All psychology’s bad.” Certainly some psychology is bad, but saying “all” is bad logic. It’s hasty generalization. Extreme views are very often anti-intellectual or driven by moral judgment.

    You may notice, too, that extreme views are often accompanied by emotional force or zeal. A quick way for determining whether you might be dealing with an extreme or unbalanced view is to determine in what way the view is being presented (With force? With calm?) Also notice if their words match their energy.

    In the least, extreme views defend a position at the cost of missing the big picture.

    Sign #5
    Vagueness
    (Look For: Verbosity Without Substance)


    At best, vagueness is a sign that the material under consideration is linguistic masturbation. You can tell if this is the case by noticing the lack of practical suggestions. This type of material is mostly or all theory. At worst, vagueness is a sign that a carrot is being dangled in front of a donkey. The donkey gives the dangler a free ride, or does his work, all the while stretching for the carrot but never eats. Somewhere between these two cases, the best and worst, is the common bull**** artist or hack that energizes you but is ultimately un-filling.

    I think people fall for stuff that’s vague, but clever and pretty-sounding, because it can be a palpable thrill to read it. It feels good.

    Sign #6
    Authoritarianism
    (Look For: Commanding Verbiage)


    This is a biggie. People who’ve spent a few long years exploring alternative ideologies rarely fall for this one, but because it exploits such a common weakness of the ego (being impressed by power) even seasoned seekers fall for it.

    And all it takes for the archetype to be activated is a spell of uncertainty. In a moment of confusion an authoritarian voice can feel like the voice of God solely because of its forcefulness.

    Luckily though, all it takes to get free from an oppressive authority figure is to realize that forcefulness doesn’t equal truth. Certainty doesn’t even equal truth. You can be dead certain and dead wrong.

    Authoritarianism is a sign of misinfo or disinfo because spirit isn’t interested in leading—only ego.

    Authoritarianism is identifiable by an abundance of commanding verbiage: ...you should, you ought to, you have to, you must… always… never…” etc. More subtle authoritarianism is revealed by definitive statements that leave no room for outside opinions. Or it’s revealed by its lack of acknowledgment of each person’s ability to get their own answers.

    Sign #7
    Specialness
    (Look For: Holier-Than-Thou Mentality)


    There isn’t much to say on this. Stuart Wilde said that there are essentially two journeys: ego to spirit or spirit to ego. The ego is all about feeling special, chosen, one-of-a-kind. And those feelings can be created through affirmation of the ego or through rejection. Sources of information that promote specialness promote destructive egoism.

    Sign #8
    Jargon
    (Look For: Complicated Terminology)


    In relation to disinfo, jargons are dangerous. They’re dangerous because they may be reinforcing false beliefs. The belief is rendered reasonable and given the appearance of legitimacy because it has a neat name. Jargons are also used to obscure the truth.

    Jargon allows you an opportunity to discard anomalous experiences as [b]less meaningful than they really are.[b]

    A variation of jargon is labeling. In the Mormon Church, in which I was raised, people are frequently referred to as “members” or “non-members.” Of course, the term “non-member” can be invoked with greater or lesser moralistic judgment, but by itself the term is excluding—it says “not-a-part-of-the-whole.” In Scientology you have people who are “clear” and people who are “toxic.” Certainly there are people out there who are sick, but invoking a term for it over and over again stops you from actually trying to understand the sick in their own language. In short, jargons create judgmental Know-It-Alls.

    Sign #9
    Discouragement of Critical Analysis
    (Look For: Insistence Upon Feeling The Truth)


    Whether or not a system or teaching is “anti-intellectual” can be determined in a few ways. Hostile to hard questions? What type of learning is encouraged or is learning by a discussion of concepts? Does the belief system ignore large bodies of information that contradict its beliefs?

    Another test for anti-intellectualism is the test for propaganda (see sign #1). Propaganda is meant to bypass the analytical mind by stimulating a gross emotional response and herding people into desired behaviors.

    A critical frame of mind is discouraged by an overemphasis on feeling. New Age channeled texts, I have found, ask for feeling-verification a lot. It typically appears in gently authoritarian commands like this: “You are ___. You know this to be true. You feel it (...in your core, etc.)” This could be nothing more than suggestion. Books written in this mode may eventually hypnotize you into feeling what you’re being told to feel through simple repetition. As you read on and on into this type of material you may stop critically reflecting and asking yourself, “Is that really true?”

    It invisibly creates an assumption that what we are now is not okay. It invisibly creates invalidation.

    If the highest level of spirit is non-judgmental, then any material spreading invalidation doesn’t come from the highest level of spirit.

    I don’t pretend that this is a complete list. But I would argue that if a piece of information contains most of the above, then you’re dealing with disinfo.

    An easy method for evaluating suspect information is noticing in what context a falsehood exists once you find one. Once you find one, work outwards from it. If the lie is presented in a context of propaganda, or within a constellation of logical fallacies, or with unrelentingly bellicose views, or with a lot doubletalk, or by invoking heroes, by stroking the ego, with a bunch of terminology, or by encouraging you to act before think, then it’s probably disinfo. Of course, it takes time and mental energy to notice these things. The only shortcut is intuition, but if you develop your intuition without developing your intellectual discernment, you remain vulnerable.
    I could add, another sign of a shill (as pointed out by Tangri) are years of no posts, followed by an unrelenting attack on the chosen prey. And when busted, the usual response is to quit or lie low for the next opportunity. A.D. chose to quit.

    The mod team did not censor A.D. for criticism. We objected to distortion, and biased selection of material to attack a person unfairly, without objectivity, without logic or reason, using language designed to elicit negative emotional reactions.

    In any event, the Avalon guidelines were thoroughly fractured, and A.D. would have been uninvited regardless, had he continued in the same vein.

    Regards, Sierra

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    I agree. And I think under the same umbrella is my observation that the alternative community is more and more making the same big mistakes we said we were gathering elsewhere to get away from.
    Agreed.

    It's not all bad at this point but when correlations between the alternative community and MSM start looking similar in a number of respects it can leave a critical thinker thinking....'hmmmmmm'.

    In my experience there isn't an entity in existence that is beyond reproach so why the censorship in the alternative community? Isn't that one of the main characteristics of MSM and those behind it?

    I would understand it more if the main characteristic of the alternative community is that it is mainly concerned about self promotion/ ego building and that truth being secondary.

    My assumption may very well be in error for I think getting to the truth and sustaining the truth about the goings on of entities whether of a person, group, or movement in the alternative community are goal number one.

    If the alternative community does not hold itself up to a higher level of integrity then it is no better then the rest and then it is nothing more then another part of the problem.

    I hope the 'leaders' of the alternative community do routine gut checks to see if they are truly any different and make changes when they see their difference is or is becoming no different.
    I still have eyes to see what the world would have me see but that doesn't mean I believe. - Sara

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)

    Mod hat on:

    The person you refer to displayed most of the classic signs of a shill, in his over the top attack on an alternative community public figure. Nothing personal, if he had attacked David Icke etc. he would have met with the same response from the moderation team.
    Where is your discernment? Nowhere in this thread did I refer to anybody other the alternative community in general.
    Last edited by ZooLife; 2nd June 2015 at 17:31. Reason: grammar
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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)

    Mod hat on:

    The person you refer to displayed most of the classic signs of a shill, in his over the top attack on an alternative community public figure. Nothing personal, if he had attacked David Icke etc. he would have met with the same response from the moderation team.
    Where is your discernment? Nowhere in this thread did I refer to anybody other the alternative community in general.
    Really? I prefer specific over general when specific is clearly the issue. Consider it an "example", then of what "no criticism" tends to ignore.
    Last edited by Sierra; 2nd June 2015 at 17:48.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Well, I am glad that is cleared up.

    I still have eyes to see what the world would have me see but that doesn't mean I believe. - Sara

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Huh? I thought this was about the NWO?

    Update:

    Quote The wave prefers no opposition but it realizes that it will be found out for what it is unless it at least has the 'appearance' of allowing opposition.
    I guess this is the AM, K. ...don't mind me.
    Last edited by Innocent Warrior; 2nd June 2015 at 18:10.
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    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    Well, I am glad that is cleared up.

    And if not useful now, perhaps it will be useful down the line to someone.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    Well, I am glad that is cleared up.

    And if not useful now, perhaps it will be useful down the line to someone.
    If that is the case, isn't the scope of what you are referring to for another thread since I never referred to the person you said I was referring to?

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Huh? I thought this was about the NWO?
    It is that too, Innocent Warrior.

    On a broad scope it is about organizations and although they can have different names and purposes can take on some fundamental similarities while still professing a higher moral ground.

    The conveyance of the thread should not be twist it into something different.
    Last edited by ZooLife; 2nd June 2015 at 18:35.
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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    Well, I am glad that is cleared up.

    And if not useful now, perhaps it will be useful down the line to someone.
    If that is the case, isn't the scope of what you are referring to for another thread since I never referred to the person you said I was referring to?

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Huh? I thought this was about the NWO?
    It is that too, Innocent Warrior.

    On a broad scope it is about organizations and although they can have different names and purposes can take on some fundamental similarities while still professing a higher moral ground.

    The conveyance of the thread should not be twist it into something different.
    Yeah, well that's what I thought it meant, but considering the timing, it's a fair assumption on Sierra's part.

    Peace out.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)

    Yeah, well that's what I thought it meant, but considering the timing, it's a fair assumption on Sierra's part.

    Peace out.
    My reason for starting this thread is fundamentally rooted in thoughts I have been having for a long time.

    Assume, I am guessing you know the cute break down of what that word looks like, right? Ass-u-me.
    Last edited by ZooLife; 3rd June 2015 at 03:45.
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    Default Re: No criticism

    [QUOTE=ZooLife;966296]
    Quote Posted by waves (here)
    My assumption may very well be in error for I think getting to the truth and sustaining the truth about the goings on of entities whether of a person, group, or movement in the alternative community are goal number one.
    Assumptions: We all have them.
    (Insert signature here)

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by Octavusprime (here)

    Assumptions: We all have them.
    In fact, that is an assumption as well. Of course there is always someone in the crowd that will assume differently.
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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    My reason for starting this thread is fundamentally rooted in thoughts I have been having for a long time.
    Yeah, I ended up figuring you wouldn't have any problems with sticking with your stance, if you were indeed referring to the AJ thread, but as you can see by my first reply, it's not hard to see how easy it is to see otherwise, I'm not immune to making assumptions. Working on it.
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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    My reason for starting this thread is fundamentally rooted in thoughts I have been having for a long time.
    Yeah, I ended up figuring you wouldn't have any problems with sticking with your stance, if you were indeed referring to the AJ thread, but as you can see by my first reply, it's not hard to see how easy it is to see otherwise, I'm not immune to making assumptions. Working on it.
    It isn't sticking to my stance, it is my stance.

    All someone would have to have done is ask if this thread was referring to an unnamed reference instead of making an assumption.

    All the assumption did was to derail the thread.

    I thought it was a valid idea to explore, not meant to be I guess.
    Last edited by ZooLife; 2nd June 2015 at 20:38.
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    Default Re: No criticism

    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    Quote Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by ZooLife (here)
    My reason for starting this thread is fundamentally rooted in thoughts I have been having for a long time.
    Yeah, I ended up figuring you wouldn't have any problems with sticking with your stance, if you were indeed referring to the AJ thread, but as you can see by my first reply, it's not hard to see how easy it is to see otherwise, I'm not immune to making assumptions. Working on it.
    It isn't sticking to my stance, it is my stance.

    All someone would have to have done is ask if this thread was referring to and unnamed reference instead of making an assumption.

    All the assumption did was to derail the thread.

    I thought it was a valid idea to explore, not meant to be I guess.
    That's why I wrote, "if you were indeed referring to the AJ thread", as in, if that was the scenario, which it is not, I get that.

    Is it too soon to joke about killing your own thread? K k, I'm leaving. Back to topic.
    Never give up on your silly, silly dreams.

    You mustn't be afraid to dream a little BIGGER, darling.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Wow I just read the Alex Jones thread,
    what happened ?

    It seemed like a decent discussion that went south fast.

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    Default Re: No criticism

    .
    Quote ... views that are judgmental or condemning.
    Judgement is a fool's game. It anchors one in the self lies of their own past.

    A cemented reality is an unchanging reality is a death, one that kills the essence of life. Life is a thing in motion, in change. Static systems are dead. In science.. factualization is a death a termination, a terminal spiral into static condition.

    Theory --is life. As theory is about a condition, a condition...that is open to change.

    Note the comparison to dogma and religion, as dogma is religion, is a downward spiral into a dead thing.

    Static systems are things that we reflect upon and into commodities. Things we eat, things we consume.

    Thus, polarization of the populace is about control and consumption.

    These analogies hold, down the essence of quantum considerations. Life arises from those quantum considerations, as does the idea of dimensions and dimensional integrations.

    And if one feels they are being manipulated in this space, in this place... by 'other' or dimensional cross connection, well....think about it.

    As above, so below.
    Last edited by Carmody; 3rd June 2015 at 02:39.
    Interdimensional Civil Servant

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    Default Re: No criticism

    Exactly Zoolife...exactly, spot on sir and couldnt of put it any better myself. Here, here.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Tesla_WTC_Solution (here)
    Wow I just read the Alex Jones thread,
    what happened ?

    It seemed like a decent discussion that went south fast.
    A faint smell of censorship entered the room TWC...lol

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