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Thread: John Lash's Kalika war party

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    ...It is just that his fix is not going to solve anything...
    You know, Lash's rants about the Jews, etc., reveal him to be a fascist and a eugenicist**, and his fix for the problem is the fix that all fascists like: they like to kill people. But it is absurd to think that you can kill your way to a better world.

    p.s. John Lash wants to make the world into a Gaian Utopia, but how to you kill your way into Utopia?

    ** In other words, he revealed himself to be exactly like the people he wants to kill off.

    Quote fas·cist

    /ˈfaSHəst/

    noun

    noun: fascist; plural noun: fascists

    1.

    an advocate or follower of fascism.

    synonyms: authoritarian, totalitarian, autocrat, extreme right-winger, rightist; More
    Nazi, blackshirt;

    nationalist, xenophobe, racist, anti-Semite, jingoist;

    neofascist, neo-Nazi

    "he was branded a fascist"

    antonyms: liberal

    adjective

    adjective: fascist

    1.

    of or relating to fascism.
    "a military coup threw out the old fascist regime"

    synonyms: authoritarian, totalitarian, dictatorial, despotic, autocratic, undemocratic, illiberal
    Last edited by Selkie; 15th June 2015 at 14:17.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    To me there are two models of reality.. in the context of this conversation.

    One where the individual works on their inner state, no matter how absurd outer conditions appear.
    Any attempt to alter the world is considered as futile, although some who believe in the hermetic formula 'as above, so below' believe that their own progress will affect the world at large via a ripple effect.

    And the other is to have reached levels of consciousness which could be considered 'enlightened states'-
    enough so to have experienced a taste of what empowerment is about. And that by uniting with others who are on a similar path one will encounter an exponential increase in the level of true effectiveness in the march towards the goal of an enlightened and unified humanity.

    And those who have arrived at this realization will then know that all of their knowledge is useless unless and until the whole collective of humanity also reaches such a state. We are all one, after all, and alone can do little.

    Perhaps JLL tripped up along the way by not allowing others to yank his chain in time. He reached the conclusion that the psychopath leaders were the cancer of our collective body that needed to be cut out. But he might possibly have grown too fast to realize that he was getting ahead of himself, and thus sank back into a ego-driven nature. Thus sabotaging all his earlier plans.

    Just pondering what is going on here makes me realize how tricky the whole collective dilemma is-
    what with gurus claiming to have all the answers, and suddenly falling prey to the same 'evil' they perceive outside of themselves.

    In any case, debating these issues is in my view not the place to coerce others into re-examining their own model of reality. I suspect that this type of derailing a conversation about the spearhead of where the collective is at is nothing other than a sign that one's own model of reality needs to be checked, to see if it fits in with the needs of the collective.
    Last edited by ulli; 15th June 2015 at 14:36.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Kali Ma says, “Either you are party to my supernatural magic, or you are rubble.”
    http://kalikawarparty.org/thunderbird/

    Statements like that ought to send people screaming for the exits.

    Edit The exits of John Lash's cult, I mean...not the exists of Avalon.
    Last edited by Selkie; 16th June 2015 at 11:17.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Silkie (here)
    We? What's this "we" s**t? You choose. Or I choose.
    I see an emotional reaction based on a misunderstanding. I should have been clearer. Allow me to try again. "Which interpretation do we, as individuals, choose?"

    I realize the correction serves little purpose, as your intention is to attack anyway. Do you understand why you feel you must attack?

    No offense intended, and none taken.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    This kind of ‘challenge’ is a challenge in tone only; it has no content.
    After reading your lengthy post, I am again understanding that you don't feel there is any reason to examine your beliefs. Have I misunderstood? I examine my own beliefs quite often, and I do find it challenging, but naturally, not examining would erase the challenge.
    Last edited by Hanson; 16th June 2015 at 02:34.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    In any case, debating these issues is in my view not the place to coerce others into re-examining their own model of reality. I suspect that this type of derailing a conversation about the spearhead of where the collective is at is nothing other than a sign that one's own model of reality needs to be checked, to see if it fits in with the needs of the collective.
    Interesting. I had no idea I was coercing anyone. Coercion usually requires a threat, and I hope I have made none, but correct me if I'm wrong. Nor did I realize I was derailing a conversation. Could you define the boundaries of this conversation within which I must remain? And the most interesting idea of all is that one's model of reality must fit in with the needs of the collective! "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated."

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Hanson (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    In any case, debating these issues is in my view not the place to coerce others into re-examining their own model of reality. I suspect that this type of derailing a conversation about the spearhead of where the collective is at is nothing other than a sign that one's own model of reality needs to be checked, to see if it fits in with the needs of the collective.
    Interesting. I had no idea I was coercing anyone. Coercion usually requires a threat, and I hope I have made none, but correct me if I'm wrong. Nor did I realize I was derailing a conversation. Could you define the boundaries of this conversation within which I must remain? And the most interesting idea of all is that one's model of reality must fit in with the needs of the collective! "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated."

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Hanson (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    This kind of ‘challenge’ is a challenge in tone only; it has no content.
    After reading your lengthy post, I am again understanding that you don't feel there is any reason to examine your beliefs. Have I misunderstood? I examine my own beliefs quite often, and I do find it challenging, but naturally, not examining would erase the challenge.
    Enough - these three posts #324-6 are clearly written by a machine in need of a software update.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Hanson (here)
    Quote Posted by Silkie (here)
    We? What's this "we" s**t? You choose. Or I choose.
    I see an emotional reaction based on a misunderstanding. I should have been clearer. Allow me to try again. "Which interpretation do we, as individuals, choose?"

    I realize the correction serves little purpose, as your intention is to attack anyway. Do you understand why you feel you must attack?

    No offense intended, and none taken.
    On the contrary, your correction is very helpful.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Hanson (here)
    ..,Nor did I realize I was derailing a conversation...
    Well, intentionally or not, you are derailing a conversation. So please stop.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    Quote Posted by Hanson (here)
    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    This kind of ‘challenge’ is a challenge in tone only; it has no content.
    After reading your lengthy post, I am again understanding that you don't feel there is any reason to examine your beliefs. Have I misunderstood? I examine my own beliefs quite often, and I do find it challenging, but naturally, not examining would erase the challenge.
    Enough - these three posts #324-6 are clearly written by a machine in need of a software update.
    Yes, and they are passive-aggressive as well.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    ...Perhaps JLL tripped up along the way by not allowing others to yank his chain in time. He reached the conclusion that the psychopath leaders were the cancer of our collective body that needed to be cut out. But he might possibly have grown too fast to realize that he was getting ahead of himself, and thus sank back into a ego-driven nature. Thus sabotaging all his earlier plans...
    (my emphasis)

    I know what happened, but I can't tell anyone about it. Let's just say that it involved a woman**, one who came to see Lash in 2013. The whole thing was a total fiasco, and in my opinion, as the one who was right there the whole time (other than Lash himself) and saw the whole thing, it sent the GNE off the rails, never to recover, because Lash lost his sobriety as a sorcerer. To me, the GNE is a failure, and it failed because Lash mistook what was good for him personally with what was good for the GNE.

    an addition The KWP is an outgrowth of the GNE, and so because the GNE became distorted, the KWP is distorted as well.

    ** This is not an indictment of the woman in question. It was Lash's responsibility to remain sober (in the sorcerous sense).

    another addition I say that the GNE failed because nothing has changed...Lash's prognostications have failed to materialize. And you know how cults are...when the prophesies don't materialize, many cults ignore reality and become even more delusional.
    Last edited by Selkie; 16th June 2015 at 13:26.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    As an aside, and not to take this thread off track, for anyone interested in the subject of the Archons I recommend The Mind Parasites by Colin Wilson.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind_Parasites

    For elucidating the nature of the flyers (the archons) Wilson's The Mind Parasites beats anything Castaneda wrote about them by a mile.

    Edit The Mind Parasites was published in 1967, while Castaneda's The Teachings of Don Juan was published in 1968. I don't know in which book Castaneda introduces the flyers, or the concept of the foreign installation, but clearly Wilson published his book before Castaneda started publishing his Don Juan series.

    I also recommend The Outsider and The Origins of the Sexual Impulse, both by Colin Wilson.
    Last edited by Selkie; 16th June 2015 at 13:18.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Silkie (here)
    I know what happened, but I can't tell anyone about it ... it sent the GNE off the rails, never to recover, because Lash lost his sobriety as a sorcerer.
    Can you tell us the the approximate dates?
    I will listen again the Nav Briefings files in order to pin point the distortion (NB after and before), you point to.

    anthropos

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by anthropos (here)
    Quote Posted by Silkie (here)
    I know what happened, but I can't tell anyone about it ... it sent the GNE off the rails, never to recover, because Lash lost his sobriety as a sorcerer.
    Can you tell us the the approximate dates?
    I will listen again the Nav Briefings files in order to pin point the distortion (NB after and before), you point to.

    anthropos
    (my emphasis)

    The clue is in the post you quoted. It will be interesting to see whether you are correct, or not (in pinpointing the distortion).

    an addition But you speak of the "dates", as if the distortion ended. The distortion remained right up to the end of the GNE and through it, into the Noosletters and the Noosflashes. The KWP is actually a result of the distortion.
    Last edited by Selkie; 16th June 2015 at 21:55.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by Hanson (here)
    ..,Nor did I realize I was derailing a conversation...
    Quote Posted by Silkie (here)
    Well, intentionally or not, you are derailing a conversation. So please stop.
    Yes, Hanson. Please stop (posting on this thread.)
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    My latest response to the entity Hanson was carefully worded to leave it open as to whether mechanical posting was the work of a bot performing like a human or a human performing like a robot. The challenge of AI is partly due to the dual nature of the technology, i.e. both bottom up, building increasingly sophisticated hardware, and top down, producing soulless, dumbed-down humanoids, clones, zombies, human pilotless drones, call them what you will – yes, thank you Hanson, Borgs will do just fine.

    There is inevitably a gray area where a machine will be mistaken for a human, and vice versa. This gray area is so huge that it more or less covers the entire field. In other words, you have artificial life protected by a human shield, just as any hostage-taking individual or larger group operates behind a human shield. In an ordinary hostage-taking situation, guilt is clear, and it becomes licit to envisage taking the life of one visibly ready to take a life, thereby overriding the desire not to take any life. However, in the situation we are talking about here, there is no such moral dilemma: the problem is entirely about saving the hostage.

    Although John Lash has correctly identified the issue as being between life and nonlife forms, his talk of killing, his racism and contempt for lower life forms such as cockroaches shows that he is willing to take the risk of false positives, in other words kill a few hostages. This is an untenable position to hold, not only emotionally, but also logically, because you cannot kill a machine, you can only fry its circuitry – you cannot take life from a lifeless entity. It is literally the madness (shortsightedness) of Don Quixote tilting at windmills. It is madness, i.e. totally ineffective, because it is like trying to remove a perceived global threat from computers by blowing up a few targeted government buildings or, since the threat is viral, by taking an axe to perfectly functioning hardware. The hardware per se is not evil and there is nothing to be gained by its removal.

    To see how we are going to deal with this huge gray area, we need to understand first what distinguishes life from non-life. Distinguishing the human from the inhuman is not good enough because ‘positive ET’ extends the notion of life beyond human per se. To put it another way, humanity is one local flavor of the universal phenomenon called life (cockroaches being another). This is the explanation for positive ET’s involvement in this whole sorry mess – he, she, all of them are also in the firing line as another protective shield. There is no shortage of life-bearing shields to sacrifice in seeking to eradicate this scourge. I would suggest that multiple global and/or civilization extinction events are not caused directly by this ‘evil force’ so much as by a normal, healthy but totally desperate attempt to shake off this plague once and for all. It has never worked in the past, and this is why: you can blow up hardware on the scale of an entire planet and more, all for nothing in an attempt to remedy a software (offplanet) issue. In this scenario, science and spirituality never meet.

    The reason I brought up psychopathy screening as a possible solution is that it covers both extremes of the above-mentioned gray area, and everything in between. What is a psychopath? I would say, a human affected to some degree with this AI virus, as evidenced in things like lack of empathy or introspection, or the lack of creativity. There is no point eradicating humans for their variable inhuman component for, depending on where the boundary is set, we would all be eligible for extermination – which is in fact what we are seeing. But the purpose of screening is not to eradicate anyone or anything: it is to allocate positions to those who are fit for purpose. This includes the work of robots – AI as a non-life form can also be an integral part of life: there is no question of bombing ourselves back to the Stone Age. Machines can also serve, but not as masters. They can be identified and removed from positions of too much power. This amounts to rescinding the Peter Principle whereby "managers rise to the level of their incompetence." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

    I suggest that psychopathy screening is the tool to achieve this because it would identify and quantify the inhuman tendencies (dangerousness) of each entity, irrespective of whether they are human or not, and treat them accordingly. The issue of decidability is circumvented. And the question of rehabilitation/reprogramming would remain open and depend, on a case-by-case basis, on an entity’s ability and/or willingness to adjust.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    My latest response to the entity Hanson was carefully worded to leave it open as to whether mechanical posting was the work of a bot performing like a human or a human performing like a robot. The challenge of AI is partly due to the dual nature of the technology, i.e. both bottom up, building increasingly sophisticated hardware, and top down, producing soulless, dumbed-down humanoids, clones, zombies, human pilotless drones, call them what you will – yes, thank you Hanson, Borgs will do just fine.

    There is inevitably a gray area where a machine will be mistaken for a human, and vice versa. This gray area is so huge that it more or less covers the entire field. In other words, you have artificial life protected by a human shield, just as any hostage-taking individual or larger group operates behind a human shield. In an ordinary hostage-taking situation, guilt is clear, and it becomes licit to envisage taking the life of one visibly ready to take a life, thereby overriding the desire not to take any life. However, in the situation we are talking about here, there is no such moral dilemma: the problem is entirely about saving the hostage.

    Although John Lash has correctly identified the issue as being between life and nonlife forms, his talk of killing, his racism and contempt for lower life forms such as cockroaches shows that he is willing to take the risk of false positives, in other words kill a few hostages. This is an untenable position to hold, not only emotionally, but also logically, because you cannot kill a machine, you can only fry its circuitry – you cannot take life from a lifeless entity. It is literally the madness (shortsightedness) of Don Quixote tilting at windmills. It is madness, i.e. totally ineffective, because it is like trying to remove a perceived global threat from computers by blowing up a few targeted government buildings or, since the threat is viral, by taking an axe to perfectly functioning hardware. The hardware per se is not evil and there is nothing to be gained by its removal.

    To see how we are going to deal with this huge gray area, we need to understand first what distinguishes life from non-life. Distinguishing the human from the inhuman is not good enough because ‘positive ET’ extends the notion of life beyond human per se. To put it another way, humanity is one local flavor of the universal phenomenon called life (cockroaches being another). This is the explanation for positive ET’s involvement in this whole sorry mess – he, she, all of them are also in the firing line as another protective shield. There is no shortage of life-bearing shields to sacrifice in seeking to eradicate this scourge. I would suggest that multiple global and/or civilization extinction events are not caused directly by this ‘evil force’ so much as by a normal, healthy but totally desperate attempt to shake off this plague once and for all. It has never worked in the past, and this is why: you can blow up hardware on the scale of an entire planet and more, all for nothing in an attempt to remedy a software (offplanet) issue. In this scenario, science and spirituality never meet.

    The reason I brought up psychopathy screening as a possible solution is that it covers both extremes of the above-mentioned gray area, and everything in between. What is a psychopath? I would say, a human affected to some degree with this AI virus, as evidenced in things like lack of empathy or introspection, or the lack of creativity. There is no point eradicating humans for their variable inhuman component for, depending on where the boundary is set, we would all be eligible for extermination – which is in fact what we are seeing. But the purpose of screening is not to eradicate anyone or anything: it is to allocate positions to those who are fit for purpose. This includes the work of robots – AI as a non-life form can also be an integral part of life: there is no question of bombing ourselves back to the Stone Age. Machines can also serve, but not as masters. They can be identified and removed from positions of too much power. This amounts to rescinding the Peter Principle whereby "managers rise to the level of their incompetence." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

    I suggest that psychopathy screening is the tool to achieve this because it would identify and quantify the inhuman tendencies (dangerousness) of each entity, irrespective of whether they are human or not, and treat them accordingly. The issue of decidability is circumvented. And the question of rehabilitation/reprogramming would remain open and depend, on a case-by-case basis, on an entity’s ability and/or willingness to adjust.
    (my emphasis)

    This is brilliant, Araucaria...simply brilliant. Thank you so much!

    p.s. As everyone can see, when Lash's position is critically analyzed, it simply falls apart.

    an addition They say that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. John Lash's extraordinary claims (like his supposed ability to know the mind of the goddess, his ability to make magical kills with string, a lead sinker and a rusty nail, etc.) come with NO PROOF...none at all. His entire oeuvre is made up of extraordinary claims that he cannot back up with any proof whatsoever. I hope that peeps will keep that in mind.
    Last edited by Selkie; 17th June 2015 at 14:40.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    One more addition...when someone like JLL who has a considerable following in the alternative community decides to take the "kill the cockroaches" route as their only logical "Endlösung" (final solution) they not only endanger their own lives or the lives of those of all their followers, but also the rest of the alternative community who will automatically become tainted by such extremist brush strokes.
    Some of us simply do not believe that the martyr's death is the only way to go.

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    Default Re: John Lash's Kalika war party

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    One more addition...when someone like JLL who has a considerable following in the alternative community decides to take the "kill the cockroaches" route as their only logical "Endlösung" (final solution) they not only endanger their own lives or the lives of those of all their followers, but also the rest of the alternative community
    Hi Ulli, I wonder where this leaves a place for self responsibility.. can one person represent anything but their own self and their shadow is being reflected by the 'followers', isn't following itself is a valuable lesson to learn from?

    Isn't life requires dynamic of the giver and the taker?

    Many Blessings,

    Limor
    Last edited by Limor Wolf; 17th June 2015 at 15:51.

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    Selkie (17th June 2015), ulli (18th June 2015)

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