The Breakdown of Human Morals and Ethics and the Rise of the Psychopaths

[araucaria]

Here is another post I made on the John Lash Kalika party thread and which also belongs here:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post972144

[Loveisall21]

I think there are many factors in the decline in human values. Certainly the ramping up of the new world agenda in the 60's was a factor. But I also will dare to say that the ramping up was and still is a response to a ramping up of evolving consciousness. Those behind that new world archonic agenda know that they can not stop the rising of consciousness so instead they knew their greatest line of defense (because they are on the defense even though it may not seem that way) was to confuse us, divide us, pollute us, traumatize us, desensitize us. And they have done a good job of it.

But maybe that is their job. Because yes the atrocities, mans inhumanity to man has been in our history for so long. What does it take to wake humanity up? Maybe it takes so much chaos before enough people start seeking peace to create a turning point . So much chaos right on our doorsteps before enough people start looking for where true peace begins and ends. And that is within.

I personally see the chaos, the decline of morals from I guess what it was more like before the 60's as just how it had to be because I think it is bringing a great many people (unfortunately not all) to a maturation and to a balance. I think that a lot of what was going on in the good ol days was a lot of repression and hypocrisy and deception behind closed doors. There was also a lot of segregation. Where people stayed with what they thought were their own kind either because they preferred it that way or because they had to. But with the civil rights movement also from the 60's (which was part of this evolving consciousness) that started changing. And the growing pains continue as humans still struggle to get to the place of maturity and wisdom where we know we are all one no matter how different our meat suits look.

And also the anti war movement, again evolving consciousness from the sixties which I see in large part due to all the psychedelics that were going down. Many people were realizing the insanity of war where as before in those " good ol days" men went off to war for god and country largely not questioning the rightness or wrongness of it. Humanity is moving to a place of balance. If you want to see the chaos, the indecency, the violence, the jadedness well its right there. Turn on the news, go to a major city you will find it no problem. But if you seek all the opposites of that you will see plenty of good. The good in the world, in people is like a sleeping giant. But the giant is stirring and no matter how much the ptb be try to seduce and incite the worst in us the giant will finally be fully roused and then their game is over and then the promise of the civil rights movement, the anti war movement will be fully realized and humanity will find the balance that comes with freedom and clarity. But really, why look behind us at what some may imagine as better days or even ahead for that matter. We have only ever the present moment to create in us what we wish to see in the world. That's the only way it gets out there. That is our work.

[UrbanAnthro]

I think about the 'rise of the psychopaths' in contrast to the loss of (1) 'citizen' and 'public service' ethics, (2) emergence and increased public presence of satanists, and their significant success at increasing their population, and (3) the virulent spread of 'Wetiko.' I don't think this is only or possibly about the lessening of 'Christian values,' but of the reduction of the power of basic human moral conduct in society and in turn, the possible destruction of the American state (or dream) as we have known it. We are, most probably, on the verge of losing civilization and the heart of goodness and decency.

I really like your emphasis on the increased 'lack of restraint' by people in office and the private sector. To me, this is due to numbers 1 through 3 above.

[Bubu]

Posted by Silkie (here)
You know, people have been so well-trained to knee-jerk hate on Christianity that they cannot even see that it has some good points**. If they had trained us to hate on Buddhism the same way, everyone would be up in arms, and its not like the Buddhists have not committed atrocities, too

http://www.globalresearch.ca/buddhis...galore/5396471

and that is just recent history.

** Being able to see the good points of a religion is not tantamount to subliminally promoting it.

I agree there are good points in religion but its just a bait to hook the unsuspecting fish, sum total is negative.
Telling outright or convincing is no comparison to subliminal brainwashing that is why this system is widely use by the cabal.
you may or may not be promoting it consciously. Its irrelevant to me I am only sharing my opinion this is how we all learn in part.

[Selkie]

Posted by Bubu (here)
...you may or may not be promoting it consciously.

As I said before, I am not promoting Christianity, consciously or otherwise.

You said:

Posted by Bubu (here)
what I see is a subliminal message...

To which I responded:

I said that I am not a Christian, or even a crypto-Christian. I am not against same-sex marriage, or gays, or anything like that.

What I said is that there seems to be a rise of psychopathic behavior that coincides with the breakdown of what we call Christian morals in this country. I also pointed out that although other religions espouse those self same values, they come to us in the U.S. by way of the Christians, but that is credit where credit is due. I also said that not all Christian values make for a better world, and indicated that those values (or ethics, whatever you want to call them) ought to be discarded in favor of more realistic ones, just like some of the values of all religions need revising if we are to live in peace. I went to great pains to point out that all religions are a mix of good and bad.

When someone perceives something in spite of the fact that there is no objective evidence for it, that is called projection. Unless you are a mind-reader, and know what is in my mind better than I do.

So go ahead, keep seeing Christian boogey men where there are none. Your baseless accusations say much more about you than they do about me.

[Selkie]

Posted by UrbanAnthro (here)
I think about the 'rise of the psychopaths' in contrast to the loss of (1) 'citizen' and 'public service' ethics, (2) emergence and increased public presence of satanists, and their significant success at increasing their population, and (3) the virulent spread of 'Wetiko.' I don't think this is only or possibly about the lessening of 'Christian values,' but of the reduction of the power of basic human moral conduct in society and in turn, the possible destruction of the American state (or dream) as we have known it. We are on the verge of losing civilization and the heart of goodness and decency if we don't act in a critical way.

I really like your emphasis on the increased 'lack of restraint' by people in office and the private sector. To me, this is due to numbers 1 through 3 above.

(my emphasis)

Thank you so much for this syntax, which I have highlighted. That is why I made the OP as an observation instead of as a statement. Observations can be mutually explored while statements are debated. I want to explore this theme, but some think I want to debate. I don't want to debate, I want to explore, and this just the right syntax for the values I am trying to describe. I just couldn't find the words for it.

Thanks so much!

[Selkie]

Posted by Ted (here)

You know, people have been so well-trained to knee-jerk hate on Christianity that they cannot even see that it has some good points

To be truly aware, one has to be an independent thinker about all things. Painting all members of any group with the same brush is called prejudice. Thinking that Christianity is evil is ignorance.
I look for good advice, and take it where I find it. I also try to determine the motivation that drives good people, and I take notice of it. Oftentimes it is a result of their faith.
Has anyone wondered why it is so much easier to morally backslide than it is to be virtuous? It's because it takes a lot of vigilance and hard work to live up to high standards. Spiritual evolution is all about rising above the animal nature of the body consciousness. That animal nature is somewhat psychopathic as it only thinks about gratification of its passions. This creates a conflict between the soul and the body. The body want's to eat the rest of the chocolate cake and the soul is saying no (the compromise is usually one more piece).
The PTB know all this, and would much rather you give into your animal nature and ignore your soul altogether. Then they can dangle little bobbles, which your body so much desires, in front of you and make you dance to their own tune.
If you're not listening to that inner voice, you'll find yourself dancing like there's no tomorrow.

Cheers,

Ted

(my emphasis)

Bravo. And I am not a Christian. I am not even religious.

Not only that, but who is promoting this indiscriminate hatred of religion, promoting it to the point that people hate on it, without even realizing what they are doing? Hmmm? Perhaps the very psychopaths that have it in for us?

[Ted]

Not only that, but who is promoting this indiscriminate hatred of religion, promoting it to the point that people hate on it, without even realizing what they are doing? Hmmm? Perhaps the very psychopaths that have it in for us?

I don't belong to any religion either. Nevertheless, I have studied religion in depth and find a lot of wisdom and sage council in the various theologies.
When the church lost is authority over the population, it probably became more of a liability than an asset. I guess, "Love thy neighbor" was never meant to be taken seriously. Why else would the church be demonized by the same folks who used it so successfully for centuries? There is just no gratitude in the upper echelons.

[ulli]

The religious leaders' authority should have disintegrated as soon as masses of people learnt to read and write and could access and interpret the various holy writings for themselves.
Rituals are unnecessary and even dangerous in that they exploit people's need for habitual behavior which is actually putting them into deeper sleep.

Although I am not saying that all routines are bad...just the ritualistic behaviors.

The real positive contribution of religious wisdom can only be accessed with study and contemplation, and in my view even more so when done in private.

[Joe Akulis]

Posted by Ted (here)

Not only that, but who is promoting this indiscriminate hatred of religion, promoting it to the point that people hate on it, without even realizing what they are doing? Hmmm? Perhaps the very psychopaths that have it in for us?

I don't belong to any religion either. Nevertheless, I have studied religion in depth and find a lot of wisdom and sage council in the various theologies.
When the church lost is authority over the population, it probably became more of a liability than an asset. I guess, "Love thy neighbor" was never meant to be taken seriously. Why else would the church be demonized by the same folks who used it so successfully for centuries? There is just no gratitude in the upper echelons.

Well, perhaps it would be helpful to step back and try to lay out some examples of those who used the church so successfully for centuries and how they used it.

But keep in mind, Silkie is talking about "religion" being demonized, not "the church". Once you change those terms, it makes me think the subject is the catholic church, and not the whole rainbow of religions, like Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and many more. You may be focusing too much on one flavor of religion, whereas Silkie was trying to assess a general attitude towards them all. Just an observation.

My thinking is, if all religions could be said to have been "used", then my guess for the reason why they may not need to be "used" any more is because the power structures have changed.

In the middle ages, the Roman Catholic church owned 1/4 of all the land in Europe. And back then, land ownership was one of the main factors in the acquisition of wealth. I wonder if other religious organizations had similar structures in other parts of the world?

Today, it is corporations that run the show, and land ownership is not very necessary anymore in the quest for wealth, (today it's more about who gets their hands on energy, and who has to pay those people for it) so the need for other vehicles such as religions to help maintain a grasp on power has become like a hermit crab shell that has been outgrown by the robber barons in favor of a bigger one.

[Ted]

But keep in mind, Silkie is talking about "religion" being demonized, not "the church". Once you change those terms, it makes me think the subject is the catholic church, and not the whole rainbow of religions, like Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and many more. You may be focusing too much on one flavor of religion, whereas Silkie was trying to assess a general attitude towards them all. Just an observation.

To me, the term religion has more theological connotations, while "church" represents the structure built up around the teaching. This can apply to any religion or denomination. It's just semantics. Thanks for your thoughts.

Ted

[Hervé]

It seems like the uniqueness of the American social experiment/engineering is that, once they got rid of the hereditary land robbers (English, Spanish, French, Prussian, etc., you know, the ones who kept stealing lands from each others...), they didn't have any real "enemies" to unite their population in working together...

Accordingly, here comes this early observation (keeping in mind that most were fleeing religious persecutions):

US Downfall Traced to Defeat of Christianity

"America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." - Alexis de Toqueville

by Richard Evans June 24, 2015
(henrymakow.com)

Is America using immoral tactics to fight unjust wars? I found part of the answer in a remarkable interview with a former US drone operator, Brandon Bryant, on BBC's HARDtalk:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_U2kPuQ9TxE

I thought it would be the usual 'gung ho' pep talk about America's great weapons, but the young man impressed me with his honesty, courage and conviction. Brandon says drone warfare represented the most cowardly warfare ever devised. Although he took part in over 1600 kills, he felt sick about it because he could not be sure whether some were even enemy combatants.

He condemned the Presidential order to assassinate US citizen Anwar al-Awlaki who was killed by drone in 2011with another American who was purportedly editor of al-Qaeda's English-language web magazine, Inspire. Bryant felt these assassinations constituted a blatant violation of the US Constitution - which says that US citizens must have a fair trial by their peers even when the charge is treason. Obama simply ordered al-Awiaki and sidekick murdered by drone ten thousands miles away.

Bryant argued, "We're supposed to be the greatest nation in the world, and we do not live up to our own standards".


HOW DID AMERICA LOSE ITS MORAL GROUNDING?

To answer this question, we have to travel back to the 19th century when Alexis de Tocqueville, (1805-1859) the French social philosopher visited America to discover the reasons for our incredible success.

He published his observations in his classic two-volume work, Democracy in America (1838). He was especially impressed by America's religious character. Here are some startling excerpts from Tocqueville's great work:

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France, I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power.

America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.

The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom.

The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other

Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

[...]


Full article: http://henrymakow.com/2015/06/US-Dow...istianity.html

***************************************************************

... it seems like the concept is permeating the atmosphere... or else Henry is reading this thread

[Selkie]

Posted by Joe Akulis (here)
...Well, perhaps it would be helpful to step back and try to lay out some examples of those who used the church so successfully for centuries and how they used it.

So are you going to actually do that, or do you want us to make assumptions again?

Posted by Joe Akulis (here)
...But keep in mind, Silkie is talking about "religion" being demonized, not "the church". Once you change those terms, it makes me think the subject is the catholic church, and not the whole rainbow of religions, like Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and many more.

I started the OP with an observation about Christian ethics because I was thinking about the United States, but when I say religion I mean religion...all religion...not the church, or any church. The psychopaths haven't taken aim at Buddhism or Sikhism or other, smaller religions yet, but they will eventually, because they are hostile to all religion. They are hostile to anything that makes people feel safe and secure and that gives them a sense of community.

Posted by Joe Akulis (here)
...My thinking is, if all religions could be said to have been "used", then my guess for the reason why they may not need to be "used" any more is because the power structures have changed.

Today, it is corporations that run the show, so the need for other vehicles such as religions to help maintain a grasp on power has become like a hermit crab shell that has been outgrown by the robber barons in favor of a bigger one.

(my emphasis)

What? You think that the psychopaths are abandoning or have abandoned the upper echelons of religion I'm sorry...that is really just too funny.

But you make an interesting point because I think a distinction has to be made between the beliefs of the faithful and the power structures of religion. The basic beliefs of religions are the result of realizations by sages, and the faithful...men and women simply living their faith as best they can...are motivated by ordinary human needs, like the need for affiliation, a sense of security, somewhere to turn in times of trouble, etc.

The power structure is motivated by, well, power, and the desire to exercise it. The power structures parasitize the realizations of sages and lives of the faithful.

[Selkie]

Posted by Ted (here)

But keep in mind, Silkie is talking about "religion" being demonized, not "the church". Once you change those terms, it makes me think the subject is the catholic church, and not the whole rainbow of religions, like Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Sikhism, and many more. You may be focusing too much on one flavor of religion, whereas Silkie was trying to assess a general attitude towards them all. Just an observation.

To me, the term religion has more theological connotations, while "church" represents the structure built up around the teaching. This can apply to any religion or denomination. It's just semantics. Thanks for your thoughts.

Ted

I agree. But please don't dismiss semantics. It is very important to define terms.

Btw, I made my post replying to Mr. Akulis before I saw this post of yours.

[Hanson]

Posted by Hervé (here)

Posted by Hanson (here)
Do we know the numbers of psychopaths in high places throughout history? Do we even know how many are in high places today? No, we don't. Do we have a quick and accurate way to identify psychopaths? No, we don't.

Time to use your search function:

Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

Brainscans and prisoners: Outing the sociopaths and the domino effect

Good threads, but my points still stand. If there was a quick and accurate way to identify psychopaths, it would be very useful to apply it to every member of Avalon and post the results publicly. That would be putting our "money" (our actions) where our mouths are, so to speak.

Not that that will ever happen. But it should. We should be the change we wish to see in the world.

[Selkie]

Posted by Hanson (here)

Posted by Hervé (here)

Posted by Hanson (here)
Do we know the numbers of psychopaths in high places throughout history? Do we even know how many are in high places today? No, we don't. Do we have a quick and accurate way to identify psychopaths? No, we don't.

Time to use your search function:

Snakes in Suits: Weeding out corporate Psychopaths

Brainscans and prisoners: Outing the sociopaths and the domino effect

Good threads, but my points still stand. If there was a quick and accurate way to identify psychopaths, it would be very useful to apply it to every member of Avalon and post the results publicly. That would be putting our "money" (our actions) where our mouths are, so to speak.

Not that that will ever happen. But it should. We should be the change we wish to see in the world.

I think it will come.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post772136

Right now, though, in most instances, all we have to go on is behavior, so that is what we must use.

Btw, I do not think that a brain scan, alone, can reveal if someone is a psychopath, but bran scans plus behavior, taken together, would probably be quite accurate.

[Joe Akulis]

"Not only that, but who is promoting this indiscriminate hatred of religion, promoting it to the point that people hate on it, without even realizing what they are doing? Hmmm? Perhaps the very psychopaths that have it in for us?"

"What? You think that the psychopaths are abandoning or have abandoned the upper echelons of religion I'm sorry...that is really just too funny."

Sounds like you answered your own question there. The church leaders are the psychopaths that have it in for us. See? We're making progress. :-)

[Selkie]

Posted by Hervé (here)
It seems like the uniqueness of the American social experiment/engineering is that, once they got rid of the hereditary land robbers (English, Spanish, French, Prussian, etc., you know, the ones who kept stealing lands from each others...), they didn't have any real "enemies" to unite their population in working together...

Accordingly, here comes this early observation (keeping in mind that most were fleeing religious persecutions):

US Downfall Traced to Defeat of Christianity

"America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." - Alexis de Toqueville

by Richard Evans June 24, 2015
(henrymakow.com)

Is America using immoral tactics to fight unjust wars? I found part of the answer in a remarkable interview with a former US drone operator, Brandon Bryant, on BBC's HARDtalk:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_U2kPuQ9TxE

I thought it would be the usual 'gung ho' pep talk about America's great weapons, but the young man impressed me with his honesty, courage and conviction. Brandon says drone warfare represented the most cowardly warfare ever devised. Although he took part in over 1600 kills, he felt sick about it because he could not be sure whether some were even enemy combatants.

He condemned the Presidential order to assassinate US citizen Anwar al-Awlaki who was killed by drone in 2011with another American who was purportedly editor of al-Qaeda's English-language web magazine, Inspire. Bryant felt these assassinations constituted a blatant violation of the US Constitution - which says that US citizens must have a fair trial by their peers even when the charge is treason. Obama simply ordered al-Awiaki and sidekick murdered by drone ten thousands miles away.

Bryant argued, "We're supposed to be the greatest nation in the world, and we do not live up to our own standards".


HOW DID AMERICA LOSE ITS MORAL GROUNDING?

To answer this question, we have to travel back to the 19th century when Alexis de Tocqueville, (1805-1859) the French social philosopher visited America to discover the reasons for our incredible success.

He published his observations in his classic two-volume work, Democracy in America (1838). He was especially impressed by America's religious character. Here are some startling excerpts from Tocqueville's great work:

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France, I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power.

America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.

The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom.

The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other

Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

[...]


Full article: http://henrymakow.com/2015/06/US-Dow...istianity.html

***************************************************************

... it seems like the concept is permeating the atmosphere... or else Henry is reading this thread

If "Christianity" represents the common good and "Satanist" represents individual liberty, then oddly enough, the psychopaths are somehow simultaneously able to erode the common good and individual liberty, both at the same time. How about that for a kick in the pants to the human species?

[Joe Akulis]

Kinda curious about De Toqueville. He wrote all this awesome stuff about how awesome America's morals were, and his famous work was published in 1835.

In chapter 1 of that famous work, he said this of the Native Americans:
"The Indian knew how to live without wants, to suffer without complaint, and to die singing."

I find that kind of hypocrisy upsetting to my stomach. In 1831 we began the internment and wintertime march of the remaining civilized Native American tribes to lands west of the Mississippi. The march was nicknamed the Trail of Tears. Must be De Toqueville didn't tour that part of the country when he was pondering and philosophizing about America.

Here's the words of someone who was there though:

John Burnett was an American soldier who participated in the Trail of Tears, and later wrote,

“School children today do not know that we are living on lands that were taken from a helpless race at the bayonet point to satisfy the white man’s greed…
I fought through the Civil War and have seen men shot to pieces and slaughtered by thousands, but the Cherokee removal was the cruelest work I ever knew."

The Trail of Tears... Didn't the Nazi's do something similar in the 1940's?

Look, I'm not trying to make people upset with these posts. All I hope to do is cause people to stop and consider that some things may be getting whitewashed and shouldn't be. I apologize to anyone who is upset with my inability to stay quiet and just agree all the time...

[Selkie]

Posted by Joe Akulis (here)
"Not only that, but who is promoting this indiscriminate hatred of religion, promoting it to the point that people hate on it, without even realizing what they are doing? Hmmm? Perhaps the very psychopaths that have it in for us?"

"What? You think that the psychopaths are abandoning or have abandoned the upper echelons of religion I'm sorry...that is really just too funny."

...Sounds like you answered your own question there.

(my emphasis)

That is not true. What I answered was your post

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post972357

And so I answered you, and not my own question at all, as anyone could see for themselves if you had bothered to use searchable quotes.