John Lash's Kalika war party

[Ted]

I read a book by Amy Wallace called "Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda" which was an account of her personal experiences with Castaneda and his followers. She paints a very similar picture of Castaneda as a cult leader who played all sorts of mind games with the women in his inner circle.
Castaneda writes great books, but I have my doubts about how much was actual fact. I think he lived on the notoriety.

[Selkie]

Posted by workingactor (here)
Hey all.

As the OP of this thread, I thought I'd pop in. glad to see so much debate. clearly this is a discussion that needed to happen. Also, I wanted to say that I believe what Silkie has to say about JLL 100% It's clear, from her posts, that she's being truthful. I'm a bit disappointed in myself for ever considering JLL anything other than hateful. I guess I was looking for a way to "strike back", and KWP appealed to me on that level. We DO have to strike back, but Lash's way isn't the right way. At all.

I honestly can't wrap my head around why anyone thinks Silkie is trying to discredit Lash. she is clearly giving her direct experience, yet, some in this thread want to deny that experience and hold to their IDEA of who they think JLL is from the outside looking in.

I'm smart enough to get it from the horse's mouth, as it were, and let the fantasy go.

I think it's the biggest issue in "new age" circles. so many people just RUSHING to give their power away to someone else..not realizing that power lies within each soul. that, and not believing that humanity has opposition outside of ourselves. we clearly do. That's why I leave the rosicrucians, the theosophists, etc etc alone now..because, although they cover many truths, I feel an infection has taken hold in those organizations as well. They're so ever-****ing PASSIVE. The dynamism that KWP was presented with is what got me looking at it in the first place..but it's a trick. an oke-doke. When you look at KWP objectively..you see(well, I do, anyway)you're really doing the Archon's work for them.

I think that was the plan all along. YMMV.

Thank you so much, Workingactor (hug). I read your post last night, but I was too tired to post a response.

I don't know why, but while re-reading this post, I just realized that what Lash really wanted from me was not love or companionship at all. What he wanted...what he thought I would do...was to help him in his schemes to get people to back him and fund him and give him their money. He thought that I would help him manipulate their money out of them with him. And the reason that he bullied me all the time was because I wasn't doing it. All the "coaching", all the criticism, all the psychoanalyzing...all of it was because I was not falling into the program of manipulating people to get John Lash the things he wanted out of them.

I have been so confused!...all during my time with him and up until just now...because I kept wondering: what did he want from me?...what the hell did he want??? He always said he just wanted me to enjoy myself and be myself. But when I was...when I was just myself...he didn't like it. I thought he wanted love and companionship and devotion, but he was pretending. What he really wanted was someone who would help him manipulate people into giving him money and doing things for him. He wanted me to help him sucker people. He thought my enthusiasm for the FGS would accomplish part of that, and that my desire to be near him would accomplish the rest. In other words, that in my desire to be near him, I would fall into helping him manipulate people out of their money and services.

So no wonder it wasn't enough for me to believe the FGS and love him with all my heart, not to mention giving him my life savings. He wanted me to help him con people without realizing what I was doing. But of course, he couldn't tell me up-front because I would have refused! So he tried to manipulate me into it. He tried to frighten me into it by making me afraid of losing my home. He tried to do it by bullying me and "psychoanalyzing" me half to death. No wonder the criticism never stopped! No wonder I had the constant feeling that I couldn't do anything right! No wonder I always had the feeling that I was balking, somehow, and that I was resisting something I could not name. And no wonder he taunted me with other women...the constant subliminal message to me was "you can be replaced" and "get with the program, or I will get rid of you".

I have also wanted to apologize to you for more-or-less hijacking your thread Workingactor. Honestly, it was not my intent

[Selkie]

Posted by Sierra (here)

Posted by workingactor (here)
I'm smart enough to get it from the horse's mouth, as it were, and let the fantasy go.

Snip...

The dynamism that KWP was presented with is what got me looking at it in the first place..but it's a trick. an oke-doke. When you look at KWP objectively..you see(well, I do, anyway)you're really doing the Archon's work for them.

I think that was the plan all along. YMMV.

I am so grateful Silkie joined Avalon. The horse's mouth is most def the best source.

And kudos to you, working actor, for being willing to listen, and think about the material/implications she presented.

We hear what JLL presents as his persona is from JLL's own words, and then we hear what it is like to actually be with JLL. (Ickypoo.)

I agree, JLL is a generator of Archontic Loosh,

Again, thank you Silkie.

Thank you so much, Sierra. And my thanks to everyone who has supported me. I could not be doing this without you. Thanks, also, to Bill Ryan. Many, many thanks.

[Hervé]

Hmmmfff... (thinking)... quite a ways off topic (maybe), but all those stories of Eden, garden, trees, apples, Eve, Adam, knowledge, exiles, Enlil/Enki... errr... Abel/Cain, bloodlines... and compare it to the stories as recounted by The Ruiner and some of you might pause with a "Wait a minute! That's all this is all about!?"

All right, back to topic

[Selkie]

Posted by Ted (here)
I read a book by Amy Wallace called "Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda" which was an account of her personal experiences with Castaneda and his followers. She paints a very similar picture of Castaneda as a cult leader who played all sorts of mind games with the women in his inner circle.
Castaneda writes great books, but I have my doubts about how much was actual fact. I think he lived on the notoriety.

I have never read that one, but I probably ought to.

Yes, Castaneda was a narcissist and a psychopath and a con man. He writes in the style of "magic realism",

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism

which is highly seductive and has a way of sucking you into the narrative. Castaneda writes as if he is writing about something that is real, but which really isn't. He was brilliant, though, that's for sure. Brilliant, but dangerous.

"Sorcerer"..."nagual"...they are different words for the same phenomenon: the use of NLP to lead people into a "separate reality", which is just another term for cult.

People get drawn into sorcery because they hope to learn esoteric secrets. After all, that is what the "nagual" implies he knows, and that he will teach you. But it is all a con, because even if the "nagual" knows esoteric secrets, he is not going to tell you what they are because that would vitiate his power.

So its all a con. Does "Don Juan" have words of wisdom for us? Sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't a con. Con men study people, and they know our vulnerabilities and weaknesses, which they exploit for personal gain. Its a power trip. Every con is a power trip, and the con man is power tripping.

[Selkie]

Posted by Hervé (here)
Hmmmfff... (thinking)... quite a ways off topic (maybe), but all those stories of Eden, garden, trees, apples, Eve, Adam, knowledge, exiles, Enlil/Enki... errr... Abel/Cain, bloodlines... and compare it to the stories as recounted by The Ruiner and some of you might pause with a "Wait a minute! That's all this is all about!?"

All right, back to topic

Oh, that was my fault! Because I was trying to re-imagine how the Archons got to us. Sorry!

[Hervé]

Posted by Silkie (here)
[...]

Oh, that was my fault! Because I was trying to re-imagine how the Archons got to us. Sorry!

No apologies needed. Not at all! When I am "thinking" I take quite a number of shortcuts... it was my thinking that went way off topic in connecting dots from this thread with other dots on The Ruiner's thread and the simplicity of it all when the keys are known

It wasn't at all a "mod" post but myself as a member and completely lacking clarity on what my "off-topic" was about: my thoughts and not at all about the overall direction of the thread...

(Hervé looking around for a spot where to hide... )

[ulli]

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by Ted (here)
I read a book by Amy Wallace called "Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life with Carlos Castaneda" which was an account of her personal experiences with Castaneda and his followers. She paints a very similar picture of Castaneda as a cult leader who played all sorts of mind games with the women in his inner circle.
Castaneda writes great books, but I have my doubts about how much was actual fact. I think he lived on the notoriety.

I have never read that one, but I probably ought to.

Yes, Castaneda was a narcissist and a psychopath and a con man. He writes in the style of "magic realism",

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_realism

which is highly seductive and has a way of sucking you into the narrative. Castaneda writes as if he is writing about something that is real, but which really isn't. He was brilliant, though, that's for sure. Brilliant, but dangerous.

"Sorcerer"..."nagual"...they are different words for the same phenomenon: the use of NLP to lead people into a "separate reality", which is just another term for cult.

People get drawn into sorcery because they hope to learn esoteric secrets. After all, that is what the "nagual" implies he knows, and that he will teach you. But it is all a con, because even if the "nagual" knows esoteric secrets, he is not going to tell you what they are because that would vitiate his power.

So its all a con. Does "Don Juan" have words of wisdom for us? Sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't a con. Con men study people, and they know our vulnerabilities and weaknesses, which they exploit for personal gain. Its a power trip. Every con is a power trip, and the con man is power tripping.

Sometimes people with pure motives use trickery, too.
How can we make personal choices if life doesn't set us up with a menu of options to choose from?
In this world of multiple options we ourselves then determine the outcome of our lives.
And power (which could also be termed as energy) is needed by all.
I have been trying to assist others to tap into their inner power source, just as I have learnt to tap into mine.
But sometimes I might slip up, and actually unknowingly drain power from others or from my environment.
Often enough to have experiences briefly that there is pleasure to be felt when doing so.
But like with all pleasure, there is an addictive element, and I am aware and careful to not allow myself to fall into that trap.

But others might see nothing wrong with helping themselves to this power supply from others, since all power in the end comes from the same Source.
But in my view too much focus on archons could attract them, when alternatively all that is needed is finding an agenda of one's own...
This could be in the "healing others" field, or in less personal fields of creativity, a creativity which is done for its own sake. Both those activities create automatic shields against archons.


This is what life has taught me, anyway. But I'm ok with the fact that others would see things differently.
I know nothing about Castaneda's personal life, just as many know nothing of JLL's personal life.
I read Castaneda's books when I was nineteen, and something stuck forever.
It was refreshing to find alternative philosophies to the programming I had just been through.

Today I have a totally different outlook from back then, one where I ask myself how I managed to project a certain reality onto the screen of my life, so as to glean lessons found therein.
That way I take responsibility for everything which has happened in my past and will happen in my future.
Power then appears from out of nowhere.

[Selkie]

Posted by ulli (here)
Sometimes people with pure motives use trickery, too.

If they are using trickery knowingly, then I would question how pure their motives are.

Posted by ulli (here)
How can we make personal choices if life doesn't set us up with a menu of options to choose from?
In this world of multiple options we ourselves then determine the outcome of our lives.

Cult members have been robbed of their ability to make truly informed choices. Janja Lalich has called this phenomenon bounded choice,

http://www.quiveringdaughters.com/20...ed-choice.html

http://cultresearch.org/pdf/bc_in_csr.pdf

Posted by ulli (here)
...I have been trying to assist others to tap into their inner power source, just as I have learnt to tap into mine.
But sometimes I might slip up, and actually unknowingly drain power from others or from my environment...

Castaneda did not "slip up". He was not trying to assist anyone into tapping into their inner power. He was a psychopath who wanted to take women (and men) captive...he wanted to hijack their power (and money and sex) for himself, as a source of narcissistic supply.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_supply

Posted by ulli (here)
...Often enough to have experiences briefly that there is pleasure to be felt when doing so.
But like with all pleasure, there is an addictive element, and I am aware and careful to not allow myself to fall into that trap...

(my emphasis)

That is because you have scruples Castaneda had no scruples.

addition I read Castaneda, too, but at a later age. One of these days I'm going to reread him. With all I've learned I will be seeing him with new eyes.

[giovonni]

It's better to let go than be dragged ...

Time to start anew ...

Perhaps ?

[gripreaper]

Posted by ulli (here)
People get drawn into sorcery because they hope to learn esoteric secrets. After all, that is what the "nagual" implies he knows, and that he will teach you. But it is all a con, because even if the "nagual" knows esoteric secrets, he is not going to tell you what they are because that would vitiate his power.

So its all a con. Does "Don Juan" have words of wisdom for us? Sure. But that doesn't mean it isn't a con. Con men study people, and they know our vulnerabilities and weaknesses, which they exploit for personal gain. Its a power trip. Every con is a power trip, and the con man is power tripping.

Sometimes people with pure motives use trickery, too. How can we make personal choices if life doesn't set us up with a menu of options to choose from? In this world of multiple options we ourselves then determine the outcome of our lives.

And power (which could also be termed as energy) is needed by alll.

I have been trying to assist others to tap into their inner power source, just as I have learnt to tap into mine. But sometimes I might slip up, and actually unknowingly drain power from others or from my environment. Often enough to have experiences briefly that there is pleasure to be felt when doing so. But like with all pleasure, there is an addictive element, and I am aware and careful to not allow myself to fall into that trap.

But others might see nothing wrong with helping themselves to this power supply from others, since all power in the end comes from the same Source. But in my view too much focus on archons could attract them, when alternatively all that is needed is finding an agenda of one's own... This could be in the "healing others" field, or in less personal fields of creativity, a creativity which is done for its own sake. Both those activities create automatic shields against archons.

And Ulli has hit on a very salient point, which threads through all of our collective experience as well as the entire history of this planet. We are taught through our history that "They" came from somewhere wanting something, and that something was in the form of energy. Our collective entrainment, through DNA manipulation, was the experience of energy vampirism, due to our 12 strands of DNA being reduced to just two, and our need to extract energy from outside of ourselves as part of our heritage.

So, we have all been energy vampires, have beliefs around scarcity and limited resources, and we are all adept at extracting energy from others. We learn that this co-dependency exchange is not healthy and that we are capable of generating our own energy, and that we can change our beliefs to abundance and tap into the unlimited source of all energy without vampiring energy from others.

This is enlightenment, self generated energy, the ability to husband this energy, to intention it out into the universe and to emanate it with love. We then recognize the co-dependency in ourselves and others, and can then choose not to give our energy away, or to extract energy from others, and choose to not enter into such relationships where the mutual extraction and vampiring occurs.

Its a very subtle distinction. Two souls who bring their own energy into a relationship amplify the energy and create a synergy and coalesce with the universal energy. This requires the recognition, and the learning of how energy works.

[heyokah]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S2ZMDQA3IMQ

'Anthem'

The birds they sang at the break of day
"Start again", I heard them say
Don't dwell on what has passed away
Or what is yet to be

Ah, the wars they will be fought again
The holy dove, she will be caught again
Bought and sold and bought again
The dove is never free

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

We asked for signs, the signs were sent
The birth betrayed, the marriage spent
Yeah, the widowhood of every government
Signs for all to see

I can't run no more with that lawless crowd
While the killers in high places say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned up a thundercloud
And they're going to hear from me

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

You can add up the parts, you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march, there is no drum
Every heart, every heart to love will come
But like a refugee

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

That's how the light gets in
That's how the light gets in

[Ted]

And Ulli has hit on a very salient point, which threads through all of our collective experience as well as the entire history of this planet. We are taught through our history that "They" came from somewhere wanting something, and that something was in the form of energy. Our collective entrainment, through DNA manipulation, was the experience of energy vampirism, due to our 12 strands of DNA being reduced to just two, and our need to extract energy from outside of ourselves as part of our heritage.

So, we have all been energy vampires, have beliefs around scarcity and limited resources, and we are all adept at extracting energy from others. We learn that this co-dependency exchange is not healthy and that we are capable of generating our own energy, and that we can change our beliefs to abundance and tap into the unlimited source of all energy without vampiring energy from others.

This is enlightenment, self generated energy, the ability to husband this energy, to intention it out into the universe and to emanate it with love. We then recognize the co-dependency in ourselves and others, and can then choose not to give our energy away, or to extract energy from others, and choose to not enter into such relationships where the mutual extraction and vampiring occurs.

Its a very subtle distinction. Two souls who bring their own energy into a relationship amplify the energy and create a synergy and coalesce with the universal energy. This requires the recognition, and the learning of how energy works.

Well said. While my wife insists I have the social sensitivity of a fence post, I have always been very aware of energy vampirism. Some people just suck me dry.
You make a good point about energy compatibility in a relationship too. It has to be symbiotic in order to produce more than the sum of both parts.

Thanks,

Ted

[Selkie]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=5ma5tF6TJpA

'Anthem'

The birds they sang at the break of day
"Start again", I heard them say
Don't dwell on what has passed away
Or what is yet to be

Ah, the wars they will be fought again
The holy dove, she will be caught again
Bought and sold and bought again
The dove is never free

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

We asked for signs, the signs were sent
The birth betrayed, the marriage spent
Yeah, the widowhood of every government
Signs for all to see

I can't run no more with that lawless crowd
While the killers in high places say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned up a thundercloud
And they're going to hear from me

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

You can add up the parts, you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march, there is no drum
Every heart, every heart to love will come
But like a refugee

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

That's how the light gets in
That's how the light gets in

I just posted that same song in another thread

But can you tell us what you mean for us to understand? I don't want to make assumptions.

[Delight]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
We are taught through our history that "They" came from somewhere wanting something, and that something was in the form of energy. Our collective entrainment, through DNA manipulation, was the experience of energy vampirism, due to our 12 strands of DNA being reduced to just two, and our need to extract energy from outside of ourselves as part of our heritage.

So, we have all been energy vampires, have beliefs around scarcity and limited resources, and we are all adept at extracting energy from others. We learn that this co-dependency exchange is not healthy and that we are capable of generating our own energy, and that we can change our beliefs to abundance and tap into the unlimited source of all energy without vampiring energy from others.

This is enlightenment, self generated energy, the ability to husband this energy, to intention it out into the universe and to emanate it with love. We then recognize the co-dependency in ourselves and others, and can then choose not to give our energy away, or to extract energy from others, and choose to not enter into such relationships where the mutual extraction and vampiring occurs.

Its a very subtle distinction. Two souls who bring their own energy into a relationship amplify the energy and create a synergy and coalesce with the universal energy. This requires the recognition, and the learning of how energy works.

I 100% support this statement.

and the Anthem lyric

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

You can add up the parts, you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march, there is no drum
Every heart, every heart to love will come
But like a refugee

I have been looking at consciousness research or a long time. One of the earliest thoughts I had was in a random quote in college. I don't remember who said it but it was in the context of creating artificial signs and symbols that "stand" for something. To paraphrase:
"People take reality and make a construct or image or symbolic representation and then PREFER that over the reality to which it stands."

IMO that facility is why we can create an artificial reality and be happy living in it. And of course whatever we screen in or screen out or decide is the "truth" or include or exclude, whatever is "real" could have been so many degrees of separation that there is no longer a connection to even the original impulse of metaphor.

Like copies of copies that fade and like the way fractals divided then become dim. the artifice loses its juice. If we are 99% artifice, where is our juice??

This is IMO because imagination is creative of experience. We can imagine the copies of what may have never been real or become CREATOR ourselves of something no one ever saw. We can then brand it (hehe).

THEN when the artifice is certified, it passes on.

Again, this says little about "reaity" itself. I am fascinated by creative minds like Nicolai Tesla, Victor Schauberger, George Washington Carver, Luther Burbank and Walter Russell. They spoke of being guided and seemed to be in touch directly with consciousness of Reality. Their ideas were so fresh and work so tangible in results in the world. Leonardo Davinci too.

Occasionally there is a major break in the "collective preference" and many different individuals all GROK something. Like the Renaissance and now also IMO, a whole different light is "coming through the cracks".

It could be the larger Consciousness System intervening or it could be that a cohort of souls ripen and something fruity is ready to harvest.

Teleology is not weird to me...that Consciousness has its point of being as expansion and coherence and to avoid entropy. I think that it is implied that when we are in alignment we express as that energy. That is IMO Tom Campbell's message.

This alignment does not have to be fancy...just goodness as I sense goodness...aligned with love, being kind, being open and soft. This is because the openings let the power through that can be shared. I don't think we need fear being open being unfolded to receive the light/love energy of ???. I can't say I am unfolded but I know that relaxing lets one begin.

I have been influenced recently by William Buhlman who out of the same exploration that led Tom Campbell to create his TOE, came to the conclusion that ANY belief system we embrace (x) will be what we project. Our perception will be x=screen and without awareness of being awareness itself, we accept whatever we have placed as "real". RAW in his book "Cosmic Trigger" detailed the way that when we begin to focus on a subject, we find confirmation.

What is my point? We are (in my belief system) consciousness having awareness. The "break" that lets the light in starts by questioning. The limitation of questions is a key feature from the expert that wants to spread a brand of metaphor.

ALSO, I am somewhat suspect that there is any concrete evidence that all of THEM are anything other than fig newtons of imagination that have been collectively assembled in agreement to imagine? They are ghosts. Who is the ghostbuster? Consciousness her/his self as we deepen our silent witness. William Buhlman says we will not find anything anywhere we have not imagined.

RAY PARKER JR.
Ghostbusters Lyrics
(Ghostbusters!)
If there's somethin' strange in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

If it's somethin' weird an' it don't look good
Who ya gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

I ain't afraid o' no ghost
I ain't afraid o' no ghost

If you're seein' things runnin' through your head
Who can you call?
(Ghostbusters!)

An invisible man sleepin' in your bed
Oh who ya gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

I ain't afraid o' no ghost
I ain't afraid o' no ghost

Who ya gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

If you're all alone, pick up the phone
And call
(Ghostbusters!)

I ain't afraid o' no ghost
I hear it likes the girls
I ain't afraid o' no ghost
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Who you gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

Mmm, if you've had a dose
Of a freaky ghost baby
You better call
(Ghostbusters!)

Let me tell you somethin'
Bustin' makes me feel good
I ain't afraid o' no ghost
I ain't afraid o' no ghost

Don't get caught alone, oh no
(Ghostbusters!)

When he comes through your door
Unless you just a want some more
I think you better call
(Ghostbusters!)

Oh, who you gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)
Who you gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

Ah, think you better call
(Ghostbusters!)
Who you gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)

I can't hear you
Who you gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)
Louder
(Ghostbusters!)

Who you gonna call?
(Ghostbusters!)
Who can you call?
(Ghostbusters!)

Lyrics taken from <a href="http://www.elyrics.net/read/r/ray-parker-jr.-lyrics/ghostbusters-lyrics.html" rel="nofollow">this page</a>

[heyokah]

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by heyokah (here)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=S2ZMDQA3IMQ

'Anthem'

The birds they sang at the break of day
"Start again", I heard them say
Don't dwell on what has passed away
Or what is yet to be

.............

I just posted that same song in another thread

But can you tell us what you mean for us to understand? I don't want to make assumptions.

Yes silkie, I was wondering the same when you posted this song as a reaction to my comment here.
Or was it perhaps just a reaction to my signature?

For me it was more or less a reaction to Gio's comment #39 and your comments about the memories of your experiences with John L. Lash.
Was it relevant to the subject of the OP, 'John Lash's Kalika war party'? Perhaps not.


Leonard Cohen once explained the meaning of the song as follows:

"If you have to come up with a philosophical ground, that is “Ring the bells that still can ring”. It’s no excuse… the dismal situation.. and the future is no excuse for an abdication of your own personal responsibilities towards yourself and your job and your love.
“Ring the bells that still can ring”: they’re few and far between but you can find them. “Forget your perfect offering”, that is the hang-up, that you’re gonna work this thing out. Because we confuse this idea and we’ve forgotten the central myth of our culture which is the expulsion from the garden of Eden. This situation does not admit of solution or perfection. This is not the place where you make things perfect, neither in your marriage, nor in your work, nor anything, nor your love of God, nor your love of family or country. The thing is imperfect.
And worse, there is a crack in everything that you can put together, physical objects, mental objects, constructions of any kind. But that’s where the light gets in, and that’s where the resurrection is and that’s where the return, that’s where the repentance is. It is with the confrontation, with the brokenness of things.
– from Diamonds in the Lines.

[Selkie]

Posted by heyokah (here)
Yes silkie, I was wondering the same when you posted this song as a reaction to my comment here.
Or was it perhaps just a reaction to my signature?

My posting that song in that other thread had nothing to do with you. It was an add-on because I was reflecting about prejudice.

p.s. I don't even know what your signature is...I have never looked at it.

Posted by heyokah (here)
For me it was more or less a reaction to Gio's comment #39 and your comments about the memories of your experiences with John L. Lash.
Was it relevant to the subject of the OP, 'John Lash's Kalika war party'? Perhaps not.

Well, I think they are relevant, otherwise I would not have posted them.

[heyokah]

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by heyokah (here)
Yes silkie, I was wondering the same when you posted this song as a reaction to my comment here.
Or was it perhaps just a reaction to my signature?

My posting that song in that other thread had nothing to do with you. It was an add-on because I was reflecting about prejudice.

p.s. I don't even know what your signature is...I have never looked at it.

Posted by heyokah (here)
For me it was more or less a reaction to Gio's comment #39 and your comments about the memories of your experiences with John L. Lash.
Was it relevant to the subject of the OP, 'John Lash's Kalika war party'? Perhaps not.

Well, I think they are, otherwise I would not have posted them.

Dear Silkie, my signature is that line, which is at every bottom of my comments:
There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
- Leonard Cohen


And the sentence "Was it relevant to the subject of the OP, 'John Lash's Kalika war party'? Perhaps not." referred to my own comment and not yours.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my English, which is not my mother tongue.

[Selkie]

Posted by heyokah (here)

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by heyokah (here)
Yes silkie, I was wondering the same when you posted this song as a reaction to my comment here.
Or was it perhaps just a reaction to my signature?

My posting that song in that other thread had nothing to do with you. It was an add-on because I was reflecting about prejudice.

p.s. I don't even know what your signature is...I have never looked at it.

Posted by heyokah (here)
For me it was more or less a reaction to Gio's comment #39 and your comments about the memories of your experiences with John L. Lash.
Was it relevant to the subject of the OP, 'John Lash's Kalika war party'? Perhaps not.

Well, I think they are, otherwise I would not have posted them.

Dear Silkie, my signature that line which is at every bottom of my comments:
There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
- Leonard Cohen


And the sentence "Was it relevant to the subject of the OP, 'John Lash's Kalika war party'? Perhaps not." referred to my own comment and not yours.

I'm sorry you misunderstood my English, which is not my mother tongue.

Wow!...I had no idea at all that was your sig line!

So you mean to ask if your posting that song was relevant to the KWP thread? Yes, definitely

[Delight]

[QUOTE]

Posted by heyokah (here)

'Anthem'

The birds they sang at the break of day
"Start again", I heard them say
Don't dwell on what has passed away
Or what is yet to be

Ah, the wars they will be fought again
The holy dove, she will be caught again
Bought and sold and bought again
The dove is never free

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

We asked for signs, the signs were sent
The birth betrayed, the marriage spent
Yeah, the widowhood of every government
Signs for all to see

I can't run no more with that lawless crowd
While the killers in high places say their prayers out loud
But they've summoned, they've summoned up a thundercloud
And they're going to hear from me

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

You can add up the parts, you won't have the sum
You can strike up the march, there is no drum
Every heart, every heart to love will come
But like a refugee

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in

That's how the light gets in
That's how the light gets in

Leonard Cohen once explained the meaning of the song as follows:

"If you have to come up with a philosophical ground, that is “Ring the bells that still can ring”. It’s no excuse… the dismal situation.. and the future is no excuse for an abdication of your own personal responsibilities towards yourself and your job and your love.
“Ring the bells that still can ring”: they’re few and far between but you can find them. “Forget your perfect offering”, that is the hang-up, that you’re gonna work this thing out. Because we confuse this idea and we’ve forgotten the central myth of our culture which is the expulsion from the garden of Eden. This situation does not admit of solution or perfection. This is not the place where you make things perfect, neither in your marriage, nor in your work, nor anything, nor your love of God, nor your love of family or country. The thing is imperfect.
And worse, there is a crack in everything that you can put together, physical objects, mental objects, constructions of any kind. But that’s where the light gets in, and that’s where the resurrection is and that’s where the return, that’s where the repentance is. It is with the confrontation, with the brokenness of things.
– from Diamonds in the Lines

One of the ahhs of genius of the song is the uplift that we feel "being broken has a value. Imagine THAT."

I imagine in this imperfect world, consciousness broke shattered splintered and we should really be happy about this condition. Like the myth of Sophia, one asks was this an unintended consequence or deliberate.

At the same moment that God began to pour spiritual energy into the physical holding dock of material reality, the divine energy was so great that perfect reality shattered. There was a crack in the universe. And it is because of the crack in the universe that the physical world exists. It is the brokenness of God's creation, not its wholeness, that allows us to live. The medieval author, Menachem Azariah of Fano writes, "Just as a seed cannot grow to perfection as long as it maintains its original form -- growth coming only through decomposition -- so these points could not become perfect configurations as long as they maintained their original form, but only by breaking." There is a crack in everything -- that's how the light gets in.The Crack Is What Lets in the Light

We hold that there should be perfection and an educated judge within the social construct holds the standard of perfection to which we fall short. Someone made up "God the Judge" that then (I at least) was taught had commandments we should not break but really want to break.

Celebrate the imperfect and be cured of narcissm???

Perfection 's belief drives building the first big lie IMO. Of course we cannot be perfect but we pretend and make a perfect facade (that I hear is even easier with Facebook relationships).

The facade and the denial of the imperfect self are not considered abnormal. Fear of being less than perfect is what shames. Hiding oneself won't allow the being to share intimacy. If it is extreme then the person is called a narcissist. Narcissists cannot feel anything deep I have heard. The inability to feel empathy for the suffering of others is the same as one's own inability to be a feeling being.

One is in ignorance.
I think it all still THERE however waiting: a seed of self.

Nature puts out a lot of seeds. They are life waiting for the break.
Have you ever wondered how the seed feels when it has knows it will die and must to be shattered? This happens 100% of the time for the fertile ones. We think we have problems.