Was Osho Murdered? Was Osho a Targeted Individual?

[Selkie]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
...This is standard modus operandi for international organizations such as the apparatus connected to the US government.

Yeah...they were probably there to learn his methods, so that they could refine their own.

No, no, and no.

They brought their own. And that was what was involved. If it was the US government, or European elements, is unknown. But it was not osho. He directly asked for a full and penetrating US investigation, and called those involved, a 'bunch of fascists'.

From the wiki entry:

The book Emerging Infectious Diseases: Trends and Issues cites the 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack, along with the Aum Shinrikyo group's attempts to use anthrax and other agents, as exceptions to the belief "that only foreign-state supported groups have the resources to execute a credible bioterrorism event".[58] According to Deadly Cultures: Biological Weapons Since 1945, these are the only two confirmed uses of biological weapons for terrorist purposes to harm humans.[5] The incident was the single largest bioterrorist attack in United States history.[3][59][60] In the chapter titled: "Influencing An Election: America's First Modern Bioterrorist Attack" in his 2006 book Terrorism on American Soil: A Concise History of Plots and Perpetrators from the Famous to the Forgotten, author Joseph T. McCann concludes: "In every respect, the salmonella poisoning carried out by the cult members was a major bioterrorist attack that fortunately failed to achieve its ultimate goal and resulted in no fatalities."[19]

excepting the fact that wiki, as a controlled and infiltrated entity that itself has been caught selling itself to the highest bidder...wiki does not mention big pharma and Monsanto and their ilk.. who are responsible for bio terrorism against billions.

That does not mean that what they write about Rajneesh is not true. His attempt to subvert democratic processes is a matter of record, as is the bioterror attack. The fact that Wikipedia has been caught selling to the highest bidder does not change those facts.

addition Here is another source for the same information, part 1 of 5.

http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/i...e_than_we.html

They were a really nasty bunch, and I don't think it can be blamed on Sheela or targeting or our government. The nastiness comes from the character of Rajneesh, himself, because that is how cults work, through the mechanism of projective identification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projective_identification

Projective identification differs from simple projection in that projective identification can become a self-fulfilling prophecy, whereby a person, believing something false about another, influences or coerces that other person to carry out that precise projection

(my emphasis)

[Desire]

Silkie, Were you involved in Rajneesh,s cult, sounds like you personally knew him?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I do agree no cult is a good cult

[Selkie]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Its never about the man but the "teaching"...
The responsible Sage is clear that the teacher and the taught are the same--there is no difference...

So if a guru is (for example) preaching celibacy but shagging the women in secret (as many of them do), what are we to make of that? Are we to follow his teaching, or his actual example?

Posted by greybeard (here)
...Followers are a big liability as far as I can see.

Not if the goal of the guru is to be rich, with ashrams and 93 Rolls Royces, they're not.

[Selkie]

Posted by Desire (here)
Silkie, Were you involved in Rajneesh,s cult, sounds like you personally knew him?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

I do agree no cult is a good cult

No, Desire...I was not in Rajneesh's cult. I was in John Lash's cult. But they all work the same way. They all lie. They all manipulate. They all love-bomb and they all mind-control their followers.

And yes, no cult is a good cult.

p.s. And if it sounds like I knew him personally, it is because after my time with JLL, I know how psychopaths operate.

[Carmody]

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
I did not get up this morning to get into this fever directed ****.

Cool your jets.

I am passionate about this because I know how cult leaders operate from the inside, and I know the damage they cause in people's lives. Cults destroy families. They ruin people's finances and their lives. They take people captive and mind-control them. They abuse them sexually. And here is Rajneesh, who did all those thing and whose organization tried to capture a whole town by abusing democratic processes and by poisoning hundreds of people to keep them from voting so that their own people would win.

here's a note on passion:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post975626

There is no stone to carry, there is no sword to brandish. You will be more more effective for yourself and for others, without projection.

Warning; the life itself is of projection, it is folded in on itself. The whole thing is a mirrored historical projection with a self animated reactive colored filter in between. The window, the life, the reactive colored filter, are one and the same. The only saving grace is that this can be recognized, as it is part of a rising self awareness to do such a thing.

It is at that point (finding it in the self) the process of removing the influence of the body filter can begin. Since the window and filter/drive are seemingly one and the same, it takes some time to, shall we say, ease the influence of the one.

[greybeard]

All I am saying is.
Dont confuse the the teaching with the teacher.
A sick chicken can produce healthy eggs.

Chris

[Selkie]

Posted by Carmody (here)

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
I did not get up this morning to get into this fever directed ****.

Cool your jets.

I am passionate about this because I know how cult leaders operate from the inside, and I know the damage they cause in people's lives. Cults destroy families. They ruin people's finances and their lives. They take people captive and mind-control them. They abuse them sexually. And here is Rajneesh, who did all those thing and whose organization tried to capture a whole town by abusing democratic processes and by poisoning hundreds of people to keep them from voting so that their own people would win.

here's a note on passion:

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post975626

Have you read Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain by Antonio Damasio? You might want to give it a look.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes'_Error

http://www.amazon.com/Descartes-Erro.../dp/014303622X

[ulli]

Certainly more controversial than appears by looking at the teachings.
Flawed teacher, for sure.

Found this just now:
About this man Rajneesh/Osho there was a lot of laughter, loquacity, occasional eloquence, some real insight, and an immensely potent and hypnotic energy. But sadly, there was also a lot of lunacy and immense dysfunction. He was/is remarkably interesting as a sensual ecstatic, intuitive mystic, unlicensed psychotherapist of en masse primal scream-cry-laugh "dynamic meditation" therapy, rebellious social-political-religious provocateur, successful self-promoter, cosmic joker, and relentless iconoclast who simultaneously lured his emotionally-dependent followers into making a big icon out of himself. Though numerous Rajneeshees will claim, using vague or dubious criteria, that their guru was "fully enlightened" (Rajneesh certainly claimed this for himself) and that he enlightened them, too, with his counsels and his "special energy," the bulk evidence indicates that Rajneesh/Osho left a mixed or even tragic legacy.

This legacy involved very misleading or imbalanced teachings as well as quite helpful wisdom, some really bad advice along with genuinely good counsels, a slew of lies about himself and his movement, dozens of glaring errors in his discussions of world religions and other subjects, personal role-modeling of voracious materialist greed and conniving ambition for fame and power, narcissistic ego-inflation along with authoritarian power-plays and lack of empathy, intellectual dishonesty and petty oneupsmanship tactics, a hypocritical inability to live what he preached (e.g., telling everyone to "go beyond the mind" while talking for tens of thousands of hours from a heavily opinionated and error-prone mind; preaching that the enlightened one lives in tension-free ease viewing life as a play while he himself frequently used laughing gas/nitrous oxide and valium to the point of incoherence, said some of his closest people), a penchant by Rajneesh and his appointed leaders for deceitful spinning or rationalizing nearly every time they were confronted on anything of importance, heavy solicitations and numerous scams by his appointed leaders to fleece his followers and their families of as much of their money and possessions as possible (especially from 1980 onward), crushing work-loads for exploited disciples (routinely 15-18 hours, 7 days a week, at the Oregon ranch in USA from 1981-5), a commune at Poona, India and then one in Oregon often buzzing with ecstatic excitement and groovy sensuality but also debauched by wanton sex (and countless venereal diseases), a several-year period of violence at Poona and branch-communes worldwide (resulting in bruises, blood, even broken bones and rapes) until it was banned by the Rajneesh Foundation in 1979, and diverse criminal activity from the mid-1970s to mid-1980s in both India and Oregon. The crimes, as recounted by former disciples, included drug running, swindling and prostitution by many ashramites to pay for their lengthy stays in India or funnel money to the commune; extensive immigration fraud and tax fraud conducted by Rajneesh and Foundation leaders in India and then the USA; currency and gold smuggling when they moved to the USA in 1981; a slew of frivolous lawsuits launched to harass and intimidate local Oregon citizens from 1982-1985; failing to pay many of their loans in the USA; arson (one incident in India to defraud an insurance company, another arson attack in USA to destroy county records), racketeering, burglary, assault, conspiracy and illegal electronic surveillance (the largest such wiretapping-bugging operation ever uncovered); criminal bioterrorism sickenings of some 750 Oregonians and attempted assassinations of select outsiders and insiders in 1984-1985 by some of Rajneesh's top circle of people, led by his authorized lieutenant, Ma Sheela; and intermittent poisonings of scores if not hundreds of Rajneesh sannyasins from the late 1970s until Sheela and her "Dr. Mengele" Ma Puja left in 1985. In all, just assessing the illegal activity in the USA from 1981-1985 (not to mention earlier crimes in India), 32 Rajneeshees were charged with crimes in Oregon; 23 pleaded guilty; 2 were convicted at trial; 4 still remain fugitives; 8 served prison time.

[Ted]

Posted by greybeard (here)
All I am saying is.
Dont confuse the the teaching with the teacher.
A sick chicken can produce healthy eggs.

Chris

It's not a difficult thing to pretend to teach a legitimate curriculum with an ulterior motive. The Rolls Royces are a big red flag.

[Carmody]

I give up. I've got better things to do today than deal with someone else's inner circular recalcitrance.

[Selkie]

Posted by greybeard (here)
All I am saying is.
Dont confuse the the teaching with the teacher.
A sick chicken can produce healthy eggs.

Chris

I understand what you are trying to say, Chris, but what it really means is that the teachings of the "sick chicken" are only useful if they are taken out of context. If a guru is (for example) preaching celibacy, but shagging the women in secret, then it means that his preaching is a con, meant to lure the vulnerable and unwary and take advantage of them.

[Selkie]

Posted by ulli (here)
Certainly more controversial than appears by looking at the teachings.
Flawed teacher, for sure.

Found this just now:
About this man Rajneesh/Osho there was a lot of laughter, loquacity, occasional eloquence, some real insight, and an immensely potent and hypnotic energy. But sadly, there was also a lot of lunacy and immense dysfunction. He was/is remarkably interesting as a sensual ecstatic, intuitive mystic, unlicensed psychotherapist of en masse primal scream-cry-laugh "dynamic meditation" therapy, rebellious social-political-religious provocateur, successful self-promoter, cosmic joker, and relentless iconoclast who simultaneously lured his emotionally-dependent followers into making a big icon out of himself. Though numerous Rajneeshees will claim, using vague or dubious criteria, that their guru was "fully enlightened" (Rajneesh certainly claimed this for himself) and that he enlightened them, too, with his counsels and his "special energy," the bulk evidence indicates that Rajneesh/Osho left a mixed or even tragic legacy.

This legacy involved very misleading or imbalanced teachings as well as quite helpful wisdom, some really bad advice along with genuinely good counsels, a slew of lies about himself and his movement, dozens of glaring errors in his discussions of world religions and other subjects, personal role-modeling of voracious materialist greed and conniving ambition for fame and power, narcissistic ego-inflation along with authoritarian power-plays and lack of empathy, intellectual dishonesty and petty oneupsmanship tactics, a hypocritical inability to live what he preached (e.g., telling everyone to "go beyond the mind" while talking for tens of thousands of hours from a heavily opinionated and error-prone mind; preaching that the enlightened one lives in tension-free ease viewing life as a play while he himself frequently used laughing gas/nitrous oxide and valium to the point of incoherence, said some of his closest people), a penchant by Rajneesh and his appointed leaders for deceitful spinning or rationalizing nearly every time they were confronted on anything of importance, heavy solicitations and numerous scams by his appointed leaders to fleece his followers and their families of as much of their money and possessions as possible (especially from 1980 onward), crushing work-loads for exploited disciples (routinely 15-18 hours, 7 days a week, at the Oregon ranch in USA from 1981-5), a commune at Poona, India and then one in Oregon often buzzing with ecstatic excitement and groovy sensuality but also debauched by wanton sex (and countless venereal diseases), a several-year period of violence at Poona and branch-communes worldwide (resulting in bruises, blood, even broken bones and rapes) until it was banned by the Rajneesh Foundation in 1979, and diverse criminal activity from the mid-1970s to mid-1980s in both India and Oregon. The crimes, as recounted by former disciples, included drug running, swindling and prostitution by many ashramites to pay for their lengthy stays in India or funnel money to the commune; extensive immigration fraud and tax fraud conducted by Rajneesh and Foundation leaders in India and then the USA; currency and gold smuggling when they moved to the USA in 1981; a slew of frivolous lawsuits launched to harass and intimidate local Oregon citizens from 1982-1985; failing to pay many of their loans in the USA; arson (one incident in India to defraud an insurance company, another arson attack in USA to destroy county records), racketeering, burglary, assault, conspiracy and illegal electronic surveillance (the largest such wiretapping-bugging operation ever uncovered); criminal bioterrorism sickenings of some 750 Oregonians and attempted assassinations of select outsiders and insiders in 1984-1985 by some of Rajneesh's top circle of people, led by his authorized lieutenant, Ma Sheela; and intermittent poisonings of scores if not hundreds of Rajneesh sannyasins from the late 1970s until Sheela and her "Dr. Mengele" Ma Puja left in 1985. In all, just assessing the illegal activity in the USA from 1981-1985 (not to mention earlier crimes in India), 32 Rajneeshees were charged with crimes in Oregon; 23 pleaded guilty; 2 were convicted at trial; 4 still remain fugitives; 8 served prison time.

Yes, that's right. The "teachings" are a con, and a cover. The essence of cults is betrayal.

And in keeping with the OP, which asked if Rajneesh (Osho) was murdered, I have to say I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was. As to the question of whether he was targeted; I don't think so, and I have given my reasons why above, in other posts on this thread.

[Selkie]

Posted by Ted (here)
...It's not a difficult thing to pretend to teach a legitimate curriculum with an ulterior motive. The Rolls Royces are a big red flag.

Yes. People go into cults because of the beautiful outer messages, only to find that what is preached is not what is practiced at all. Rajneesh is just one example.

[Cristian]

You know Silkie,

Gay people always say they can spot each other out. There is something they see in each other.

I have realized that beauty and truth is something I can spot . In that regard Osho was the real deal. You cannot fake that- you have to understand. You cannot fake God.

You are using your brain- you are not using your heart. Osho was everything you say from a mind's point of view.

Osho was also beautiful from the heart's point of view. You cannot argue about this. You can only know this...

[Selkie]

Posted by Cristian (here)
You know Silkie,

Gay people always say they can spot each other out. There is something they see in each other.

I have realized that beauty and truth is something I can spot . In that regard Osho was the real deal. You cannot fake that- you have to understand. You cannot fake God.

You are using your brain- you are not using your heart. Osho was everything you say from a mind's point of view.

Osho was also beautiful from the heart's point of view. You cannot argue about this. You can only know this...

You are wrong about that, Cristian. Psychopaths fake it all the time. That is how they lure their victims; it is their stock in trade, and Rajneesh was a psychopath, as what his cult was really like shows.

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post975647

About this man Rajneesh/Osho there was a lot of laughter, loquacity, occasional eloquence, some real insight, and an immensely potent and hypnotic energy. But sadly, there was also a lot of lunacy and immense dysfunction. He was/is remarkably interesting as a sensual ecstatic, intuitive mystic, unlicensed psychotherapist of en masse primal scream-cry-laugh "dynamic meditation" therapy, rebellious social-political-religious provocateur, successful self-promoter, cosmic joker, and relentless iconoclast who simultaneously lured his emotionally-dependent followers into making a big icon out of himself. Though numerous Rajneeshees will claim, using vague or dubious criteria, that their guru was "fully enlightened" (Rajneesh certainly claimed this for himself) and that he enlightened them, too, with his counsels and his "special energy," the bulk evidence indicates that Rajneesh/Osho left a mixed or even tragic legacy.

This legacy involved very misleading or imbalanced teachings as well as quite helpful wisdom, some really bad advice along with genuinely good counsels, a slew of lies about himself and his movement, dozens of glaring errors in his discussions of world religions and other subjects, personal role-modeling of voracious materialist greed and conniving ambition for fame and power, narcissistic ego-inflation along with authoritarian power-plays and lack of empathy, intellectual dishonesty and petty oneupsmanship tactics, a hypocritical inability to live what he preached (e.g., telling everyone to "go beyond the mind" while talking for tens of thousands of hours from a heavily opinionated and error-prone mind; preaching that the enlightened one lives in tension-free ease viewing life as a play while he himself frequently used laughing gas/nitrous oxide and valium to the point of incoherence, said some of his closest people), a penchant by Rajneesh and his appointed leaders for deceitful spinning or rationalizing nearly every time they were confronted on anything of importance, heavy solicitations and numerous scams by his appointed leaders to fleece his followers and their families of as much of their money and possessions as possible (especially from 1980 onward), crushing work-loads for exploited disciples (routinely 15-18 hours, 7 days a week, at the Oregon ranch in USA from 1981-5), a commune at Poona, India and then one in Oregon often buzzing with ecstatic excitement and groovy sensuality but also debauched by wanton sex (and countless venereal diseases), a several-year period of violence at Poona and branch-communes worldwide (resulting in bruises, blood, even broken bones and rapes) until it was banned by the Rajneesh Foundation in 1979, and diverse criminal activity from the mid-1970s to mid-1980s in both India and Oregon. The crimes, as recounted by former disciples, included drug running, swindling and prostitution by many ashramites to pay for their lengthy stays in India or funnel money to the commune; extensive immigration fraud and tax fraud conducted by Rajneesh and Foundation leaders in India and then the USA; currency and gold smuggling when they moved to the USA in 1981; a slew of frivolous lawsuits launched to harass and intimidate local Oregon citizens from 1982-1985; failing to pay many of their loans in the USA; arson (one incident in India to defraud an insurance company, another arson attack in USA to destroy county records), racketeering, burglary, assault, conspiracy and illegal electronic surveillance (the largest such wiretapping-bugging operation ever uncovered); criminal bioterrorism sickenings of some 750 Oregonians and attempted assassinations of select outsiders and insiders in 1984-1985 by some of Rajneesh's top circle of people, led by his authorized lieutenant, Ma Sheela; and intermittent poisonings of scores if not hundreds of Rajneesh sannyasins from the late 1970s until Sheela and her "Dr. Mengele" Ma Puja left in 1985. In all, just assessing the illegal activity in the USA from 1981-1985 (not to mention earlier crimes in India), 32 Rajneeshees were charged with crimes in Oregon; 23 pleaded guilty; 2 were convicted at trial; 4 still remain fugitives; 8 served prison time.

See also

http://www.lovefraud.com/

http://psychopathsandlove.com/stages...-relationship/

[Cristian]

Silkie,

I see you have been hurt.

I see you have been deceived.

I see the black panther that wont take any crap any more.

What is behind the black panther ...I wonder.

Something amazing and beautiful I think.

Wonder when are you going to drop the black panther attitude... When are you planning on letting go?

[Ted]

If a guy is heading an organization, and that organization is buying a bunch of useless luxury cars, taking over a town and poisoning people, he is ultimately responsible. If he couldn't handle the organization, he should have removed himself and started over. The fact that he didn't, and only started pointing fingers after the fact is highly suspicious.
Words lie, actions don't.

[Caliban]

I know that some people feel very warmly towards Osho -- obviously that guy knew some profound things about spirituality. In book after book he lays out all the "secrets" and mysteries of Eastern wisdom. Whether he actually knew this or got it from books himself, I can't say.

What I do know is that he allowed a vile and nefarious community to spring up around him that committed crimes and acted contrarily to what we think of as spiritual growth. Was he infiltrated by elements of intelligence services? Maybe, I don't know, and never heard that before. If he was, why didn't he back out of this "community," distance himself as far as possible? Osho to me is another example of the guru gone wildly wrong. Look at Da Free John (?) or name your own.

To me, it's best to stay away from gurus, especially if they become famous. Listen, take a few things and go within to see if it gels with your inner guide.

[Selkie]

Posted by Cristian (here)
Silkie,

I see you have been hurt.

I see you have been deceived.

I see the black panther that wont take any crap any more.

What is behind the black panther ...I wonder.

Something amazing and beautiful I think.

Wonder when are you going to drop the black panther attitude... When are you planning on letting go?

I know you mean well

[greybeard]

Silkie enlightened teachers do fall out of that state--some times called crash landing.
That does not invalidate at least the early teachings.
I say that devotees can be a liability as some want something from the guru and have an expectation that this can be met by giving expensive gifts or sleeping with them.
The temptations are many--Jesus was tempted by the Devil but did not give in.
Hope this gives context to my earlier posts.
Best wishes
Chris