Was Osho Murdered? Was Osho a Targeted Individual?

[Selkie]

Posted by greybeard (here)
...I say that devotees can be a liability as some want something from the guru and have an expectation...

Well, of course they have expectations. Gurus gain followers and sucker people by building expectations. The problem is not that people have expectations, but that gurus exploit those expectations by promising way more than they can ever deliver. And followers are stripped of money, possessions and relationships in the bargain.

Posted by greybeard (here)
...The temptations are many--Jesus was tempted by the Devil but did not give in.

Maybe not, but Rajneesh sure did!, lol.

Thanks, Chris

[Citizen No2]

Truth.

We are all looking for truth, and yet what is truth?

Truth about Osho? Only Osho knows his truth.......... The rest is merely hearsay at best. Unless you are personally involved in an event then recollection and distortion shall be your kif and kin. How many times on this site do poster's state their distrust of MSM and then use the very same source's to bolster their point of view, their truth?

I'll tell you about truth, the conclusion I have arrived at regarding truth.

Does being aware that Government's and Corporation's use under-hand and deadly tactics to further some dark agenda put me at an advantage? I don't think so.

Does being aware of a possible Alien agenda, Millennia old, of hiding the Truth of who we really are put me at an advantage? I don't think so.

Does being aware of myself, of my Truth, of conduct and interaction put me at an advantage? I think so, and thus, my Truth is the only truth that matters, to me.


In the word's of the late, great, Freddie Mercury:

" Nothing really matters
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters, nothing really matters
To Me.........................."




P.S. the view stated above is mine and mine alone and is in no way meant to credit or discredit any other persons point of view.

[Flash]

Cristian, you are right, Silkie could drop the anger if she/he wishes, and would be much more apt to help others after dropping the anger - to do this help is often needed however.

Cristian, you are, in my views, however wrong in one thing: psychopaths are extraordinary imitators. They will imitate love. And very good dark magic people will know how to utilise énergies in order to make you believe they love and are full of heart. They are extremely hard to discern for what they truly are. But behavior speaks - although it takes tons of tiime to be obvious. Do not be misled.

We were laughing together a group I meditate with. We often go in a place for long week ends that have recently been sold to an Osho followers group. Our own learnings are basically practically opposite to Osho's teachings. Yet, we kept renting there since we have done it for years and the place is appropriate. So they got the very meditative and not flesh oriented group right in their mist lollllllllllllll

Posted by Cristian (here)
Silkie,

I see you have been hurt.

I see you have been deceived.

I see the black panther that wont take any crap any more.

What is behind the black panther ...I wonder.

Something amazing and beautiful I think.

Wonder when are you going to drop the black panther attitude... When are you planning on letting go?

[greybeard]

Posted by Citizen No2 (here)
Truth.

We are all looking for truth, and yet what is truth?

Truth about Osho? Only Osho knows his truth.......... The rest is merely hearsay at best. Unless you are personally involved in an event then recollection and distortion shall be your kif and kin. How many times on this site do poster's state their distrust of MSM and then use the very same source's to bolster their point of view, their truth?

I'll tell you about truth, the conclusion I have arrived at regarding truth.

Does being aware that Government's and Corporation's use under-hand and deadly tactics to further some dark agenda put me at an advantage? I don't think so.

Does being aware of a possible Alien agenda, Millennia old, of hiding the Truth of who we really are put me at an advantage? I don't think so.

Does being aware of myself, of my Truth, of conduct and interaction put me at an advantage? I think so, and thus, my Truth is the only truth that matters, to me.


In the word's of the late, great, Freddie Mercury:

" Nothing really matters
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters, nothing really matters
To Me.........................."




P.S. the view stated above is mine and mine alone and is in no way meant to credit or discredit any other persons point of view.

Well said Citizen No 2.

"Nothing is real, nothing to go on about" John Lennon

You can have knowledge about everything under the sun but if you don't know your True Self what value is it to you?
"What does it profit you if you gain the world but loose your soul" Christ is reputed to have said
And "Search ye first the Kingdom of God and all things will be added unto you"

Basically the Kingdom is within--there in lies the Father--which is the Self as in Self realisation.

That is worth all the gold or knowledge of this world.
The body and this Earth is your temporary home.
Self is eternal --that's what you are.

Osho pointed strongly to this.

Chris

[Camilo]

The only thing certain about him is that he didn't walk his talk. He preached about spiritual values and yet he owned a float of 94 Rolls Royces, and created a cult of deluded blind servants.

[Selkie]

Posted by Camilo (here)
The only thing certain about him is that he didn't walk his talk. He preached about spiritual values and yet he owned a float of 94 Rolls Royces, and created a cult of deluded blind servants.

Yes...blind servants who burgled and poisoned and bilked and defrauded and otherwise abused many, many people. Proof enough of the value of Rajneesh's teachings, I would say.

[Selkie]

Posted by greybeard (here)
..."Nothing is real, nothing to go on about" John Lennon

That's like saying this:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8

And yet, it is true that nothing is real. It is real to flesh and to humans, but unreal to spirit and the eternal, I suppose.

[greybeard]

There is no denying that terrible horrible things happen
While It may be an illusion to spirit, the way to have a better future for all here and now, is spiritual evolution.
"A rising tide lifts all boats"

You can not fight evil with the same energy that creates all this turmoil.
Most conflict is caused by well meaning people going to war to fight a perceived wrong---and it may be real enough to them.
The warring is at all levels, family disputes you name it, has been going on since time began.
This is due to ignorance of the fact that "God" is within all.

That looking through the others eyes is what is looking through yours.

Gandhi said "Be the change you want to see."

We can not opt out of our personal responsibility to make our own life right and at the same time blame circumstances seemingly created by others.
By changing our mind set, our intentions, our circumstances will change for the better.
We have to be consistent in our attitude,thoughts and actions and then the external changes.

Namaste means "I greet the God within you"

Its very hard to see that all are one.
To live and let live.
When some one hurts me, if I keep carry it, then I'm the one hurting me.
Small stuff I don't have to buy into.
Big stuff more difficult.
AA has some good sayings "Let go let God"

No one escapes the consequences of their actions--I don't have to be concerned about this.

This is a nice story and may be true.

Chris

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post975336

Ps when I use the word God I really mean the Divine that is my True Self.
I really let go to what I truly am--there is nothing external.
I am in the body and body is within me.

Its actually simple but easily confused--in reality "I am the totality, all of it."

I believe this to be so.

Chris

[Cristian]

Osho,
What is existence? Is it something like what people call God?

Existence is that which is, and God is that which is not. Existence is a reality, God is a fiction. Existence is available only to meditators, people of silence; God is a consolation for sick minds, sick psychologies.

Existence is not your production – God is. That's why there is only one existence, but thousands of gods. Each according to his needs, each according to his suffering, each according to his expectations, creates a god or accepts an old belief about God.

God is a great consolation, but it is not a cure. Existence is not a consolation. To be in tune with it is to be healthy and whole. All the religions of the world have been teaching God; I teach you existence. I teach you to be in tune with that which surrounds you, which is within you and without you. Once you are in tune with it, there is no death for you, no misery, no tension, no worry, but a tremendous peace surrounds you, a contentment which you have never even dreamt of.

God is for those who cannot grow in consciousness, who are retarded as far as consciousness is concerned. It is a kind of toy; retarded people need it. And the moment I say it is a toy, then it is up to you how you want to make it – looking like a monkey or looking like an elephant. It is just up to you whether to give him four hands or one thousand hands. It is your creation. Strangely enough, man believes God created everything.

The truth is that God himself is a creation of man's imagination.

God is the greatest lie you can ever find, because on that lie thousands of other lies depend. Churches, religious organizations go on multiplying lies upon lies, just to protect one lie.

You have to understand the psychology of lying. The first thing about lying is that you need a good memory because you have to remember. You lie to someone about something, to somebody else about something else; you have to remember what you have said to one and what you have said to the other.

Truth needs no remembrance. Truth is always there, just the same. You don't have to cram it in your memory. Memory gives you a bondage, a prison; it clings around you, covers you so much, slowly, slowly that you disappear completely. Truth is uncovering yourself from all lies. And there is a sudden revelation that you are part of the immense truth I am calling existence.

You don't need any churches, you don't need any temples, you don't need any mosques; you need only a prayerful heart, a loving heart, a grateful heart. That is your real temple. That will transform your whole life. That will help you to discover not only yourself, but the very depths of this immense existence.

We are almost like the waves of the ocean – just on the surface, and the ocean may be miles deep. The Pacific Ocean is five miles deep. But a small wave on the top will never know the depth – her own depth, because she is not separate from the ocean. She will cling to her small entity, be afraid about death, be afraid of losing herself in the vastness, the oceanic infinity. But the truth is, the death of the wave is not a death, but the beginning of an eternal life.


http://www.osho.com/read/osho/vision...rsus-existence

[Jhonie]

OMG! I had no idea about OSHO. Cults are every where. My family is a cult for sure.

[Selkie]

Posted by Cristian (here)

Osho,
...You have to understand the psychology of lying.

http://www.osho.com/read/osho/vision...rsus-existence

Well, he (Osho) ought to know, being a pathological liar, himself.

[Selkie]

Posted by Cristian (here)
Osho,
...You don't need any churches, you don't need any temples, you don't need any mosques...
http://www.osho.com/read/osho/vision...rsus-existence

No, but apparently you do need 93 Rolls Royces.

[Michel Leclerc]

I personally know a few people who have benefited greatly from Sri Rajneesh‘s or Osho’s teachings. I have had the opportunity to glance through a few of his books in the 70s/80s and which rung a number of bells which joined a whole symphonic orchestra only somewhat later in my life.

The people I am referring to were either, like myself, Subut initiates, or were influenced by him via their own exploration of the Tantric path.

Friends and acquaintances of both disciplines were highly appreciative of his works. In Subut the idea went around that Rajneesh/Osho’s thoughts and spiritual exercises had a value equal to Subut's and/but that we did not need to walk his path as they were parallel. Which I think was wise – and precisely because of this wisdom and the distance taken, the judgment of those who read him is of importance to me.

In the 90s I approached Tantra myself, and so came closer to the teachings of Rajneesh/Osho. From that vantage point also (although, again, it does not seem to be the same as Rajneesh/Osho's way exactly) I could appreciate what I knew about him as valid.

It is my experience that in all personal development schools one will find both transmitters of the message (trainers, facilitators, coaches, “gurus”) and receivers of the message (disciples, attendees) who may be either temporarily of even for some time not at the level of the message conveyed or heard. The strange thing is that this does not affect the message as such. If it has intrinsic strength, it will survive human defects easily. In Christianity a sinner can baptise.

When I heard the dismal news about the group around Rajneesh/Osho later, I remember, I myself and the friends I have referred to smelled many rats. At least we suspended our belief in that news.

When somebody left behind such a vast corpus of written material, I suggest one of the first things we could do is start reading.

[Desire]

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
I did not get up this morning to get into this fever directed ****.

Cool your jets.

There has to be an enemy out there Carmody.
In who's interest is it to rubbish Osho and therefore the teaching which seem quite valid to me?
Who does not want mankind to evolve spiritually?
Any teacher that points to spiritual Truth will be attacked and ridiculed.
Never mind the teacher though, study the teaching and see if it rings true for one self.
Is it uplifting? That's a good clue.
Does it point to non-duality?

Chris

You might want to talk to people whose lives were ruined by Rajneesh and his cult before you decide how "uplifting" his real message...as opposed to his con-job message...really was.

SIlkie,Don"t let them get to you they don't get the devistation of what they are saying to you.They are part of the follower pack.They mean well but don't help.

[Flash]

Desire, you subscribed here on the 14 of october 14. I suggest that you do quite a lot more or reading of the post on the forum of old posters before being so judgemental. What you are saying is plainly ridiculous.

Second, I do not think that Silkie is THAT fragile. She/he is quite adamant about Osho's groups and uptight about it, but usually she/he handle situation in a much colder fashion. Having been personnally hurts does fuzz the mind and heart. I do understand this.

Silkie, the real discussion about OSHO's philosophy AND behavior has been shut because of your drastic answers to posters. Carmody has left the discussion and he could have brought a lot, Ulli is keeping away right now, and probably more are keepinf far.

It would really help to have a not so hot discussion and therefore find the real truth instead of being pushed someting down the throat. The funny part is that people may even come to your point after discussing it, but won't if it is being pushed. I know you understand this. Would be great if we could really discussed without feeling like being attacked when in fact you probably want to protect us and have us see your truth as you have seen it.

I personnally come from background where the Osho type of teaching are not that much appreciated, although the light part of being maybe.

Posted by Desire (here)

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
I did not get up this morning to get into this fever directed ****.

Cool your jets.

There has to be an enemy out there Carmody.
In who's interest is it to rubbish Osho and therefore the teaching which seem quite valid to me?
Who does not want mankind to evolve spiritually?
Any teacher that points to spiritual Truth will be attacked and ridiculed.
Never mind the teacher though, study the teaching and see if it rings true for one self.
Is it uplifting? That's a good clue.
Does it point to non-duality?

Chris

You might want to talk to people whose lives were ruined by Rajneesh and his cult before you decide how "uplifting" his real message...as opposed to his con-job message...really was.

SIlkie,Don"t let them get to you they don't get the devistation of what they are saying to you.They are part of the follower pack.They mean well but don't help.

[loveoflife]

Osho liked to inject humour into his discourses by telling jokes.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=6D7rWLzloOI

He also liked to wind up those who attacked him. Considering some of the posts on this thread he succeeded.

[enfoldedblue]

Personally I noticed that I often found profound truths that I discovered within reflected in the words of Osho. Because of this, one day several years ago I decided to do a little research on him. I remember that after reading a slew of information on him my take was that he had accessed the layers of deep truth and beauty within ... and this helped propel him into the public realm... However though he had reached states of truth and beauty he lacked integrity and thus was easily compromised by fame and power. I actually remember that there was some point when he began interacting with an American audience that I wondered if 'someone' had got to him. Possibly he was manipulated by certain powers .... or maybe it was a simple as an untamed ego getting out of control. Either way he clearly got very lost along the way...

[Bubu]

There are many cults but only so few received so much negative publicity. Which prompted me to ask again. "Who owns the media" Who owns the "rolls Royce company" its almost unbelievable that a small time cult leader could own 94. One example of created Identity is Einstein religion is another. I Agree with Carmody about character assassination. I was planning to look deeply into Osho after reading this thread. Thanks Christian for bringing it here. His teachings rings true to me. Although as pointed above the teacher is not his teaching. The teaching once delivered cannot be taken back it stays what it is lest the teacher can be accused of lying. But the teacher can changed along the way, particularly with temptations and manipulations ,created probably.
His teachings rings true and that's what matters not the teacher for its not about him its about his teachings reminding me of my belief in regards.
Nothing could be worst to this group up there that man will ceased to look up to authority/ higher figures; gods bosses

[Caliban]

Posted by enfoldedblue (here)
However though he had reached states of truth and beauty he lacked integrity and thus was easily compromised by fame and power. I actually remember that there was some point when he began interacting with an American audience that I wondered if 'someone' had got to him. Possibly he was manipulated by certain powers .... or maybe it was a simple as an untamed ego getting out of control. Either way he clearly got very lost along the way...

Yes, he certainly did get lost. What developed around him was truly nuts. And the fascinating thing is, it happens with so many of these gurus. Is it that they're not truly enlightened? Or is their "enlightenment" incomplete, did they "spiritually bypass" their psychological problems? Or is it the lack of integrity as you say, enfoldedblue?

Some seem to have escaped this. Nisargadatta, for one, though he never came to America. He stayed in Bombay talking with seekers. He did become famous but never succumbed to the madness. Nor did Papaji, though he eventually become famous as well, also staying mostly in India.

I think Osho and others like him still had karma to burn, or however you want to phrase it. They didn't totally transcend. Like most of us here. Except we don't have 94 Rolls Royces

[Delight]

Posted by Silkie (here)

Posted by Camilo (here)
The only thing certain about him is that he didn't walk his talk. He preached about spiritual values and yet he owned a float of 94 Rolls Royces, and created a cult of deluded blind servants.

Yes...blind servants who burgled and poisoned and bilked and defrauded and otherwise abused many, many people. Proof enough of the value of Rajneesh's teachings, I would say.

Isn't it wonderful that we can learn from seeing other's terrible experiences to stay away from faux Guru's self interested clutches? IMO anyway, when we are willing to be beguiled, we are not willing at that moment to observe what may be clear to others. I have read that we can within a minute or two of interacting with anyone discern what is actually intended BUT we often will not listen to our small still voice of inner reason.

I recommend this article highly as it says more about the issue of the notion many have of enlightenment than just about Osho (by his various names)

Christopher Calder knew the man personally.

Hugh Milne's book records a day when Rajneesh admitted, while under the influence of nitrous oxide, that there is no such thing as enlightenment. I cannot confirm this event through other contacts, but I assume Rajneesh was simply stating what U.G. Krishnamurti has said all along, that the storybook fiction we accept of a perfect enlightenment, full of infallible wisdom, is a big lie. A powerful and expansive state of cosmic consciousness does exist in humans who achieve it, but the way this condition is described by the religious establishment is an egocentric fiction, contrived by spiritual leaders to control the masses for their own personal gain.

Enlightenment is not something you own; it is something you channel.

Whatever term you use for the phenomenon of enlightenment, it is scientifically accurate to say that no human being has any power of their own. Even the chemical energy of our metabolism is borrowed from the sun, which beams light to the Earth, which is then converted by plants through photosynthesis into the food we eat. You may get your bread from the supermarket, but the caloric energy it contains originated from thermonuclear reactions deep in the center of a nearby star. Our physical bodies run on star power. Any "spiritual" energy we channel also comes from far beyond, from all sides of the universe, from the complete TES (Time-Energy-Space), from beyond the oceans of galaxies, and onto infinity. No human being owns the Atman, and no one can speak for the TES.