Closing the Avalon accounts of two long standing members

[eagle0027]

Thanx Paul...i well know how hard it is to convey ones thoughts beliefs context of meanings as well .It would take volumes to really articulate depths of beliefs.And even then it seems deep down there is a knowing of our intellect having been impared to keep us from really knowing

[Pam]

So at the end of the day, the reason these two women have had their accounts closed and one of them has publicly been called a thief is that there is deep concern that they are representing themselves as healers to Milab and other trauma victims and the staff at PA feels it is necessary to expose their character so that Milabs and severe trauma victims will be able to exercise a sort of "buyer beware" when seeking therapeutic help? There is no sarcasm in my question, I am just trying to figure this thing out.

thanks,
pam

[frodo13]

I don't usually comment on a lot of things on these pages. I just like to read other peoples stories and see how it relates to the world and my part in it. If a wrong is done to another person I truly believe what goes around comes around. Simple maybe but Karma is of your own making. I see so much in the world where if people were just honest and responsible for there own actions we would be much better off and closer to our ultimate reason for being here. It seems like the world is really moving towards a turning point of some kind with all the violence/war/ police misconduct and it seems to take its toll on our psyche. It would be nice and sweet to say forgive, but I say never forget because we are all responsible for our actions and it all evens out in the end. The universe has a way of equalizing it self. Sorry for the rambling. I hope we all learn from our mistakes and the forum continues to thrive and inform everyone connected to it. Later everyone.

[Hip Hipnotist]

So, I think I need to get out more often. I haven't experienced this much 'sea sickness' since the "Love Boat" days. Yes, that's how old I am. Actually older. And I don't mean 'sea sickness' in a sarcastic or demeaning manner. Many heartfelt, intelligent, thoughtful, emotional and well-crafted posts here. I mean 'sea sickness' as sort of a metaphor.

Play along for a moment and let's just say Project Avalon is the "S.S. Avalon" with 'Captain Bill' at the helm and a very well managed and distinguished gaggling of administrators/moderators, or 'crew' as to keep more in character. And as captain of the "S.S. Avalon" he, and he alone, if he so chooses, has the authority to 'cast overboard' ( again, just keeping in character ) any passenger, stow away, or crew member for that matter that would attempt to run the vessel in question aground! And as I see it 'the vessel' in question is Bill's life. Or a substantial part of it.

You know there was a time not so long ago that when you stole goods from a mate aboard a ship, forget about the captain himself that you'd be walkin' the plank -- blindfolded! It seems that in this instance the culprit, along with the 'booty' was able to get away aboard a life boat and make it to shore. The sharks will go without a meal -- this time.

There. How's that for a heartfelt, intelligent, thoughtful, emotional and well-crafted post?

Dramamine, anyone??

[SKIBADABOMSKI]

I'm indeed way off the mark here and have no idea of whats been happening recently so bear with me as I approach this situation with tenderness and care.

So Bill.. you was bonking Christine. Nice one.. she looked sweet.

Next time get an old Chinese lady that spits on the floor and coughs and sneezes without covering her face and would take a pee in a shopping center fountain and think nothing of it. Once you get passed her way of life and win her trust (about 10 years) she'd teach you things about spiritualism that would knock you for six.. and not $60,000.

[gripreaper]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
but I asked for her side of the story of why she opened a safe, removed Bill's gold coins, closed the safe, and left the country

Good question. It does seem out of character that Christine would leave under the cover of darkness in such an abrupt fashion, after being Bill’s wife and having spent years of deep intimate and vulnerable communion. What did she find out that would compel her to take such an action? We will never know I am sure.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Her emails back to me were increasingly guarded and terse, but she did tell me that she took Bill's gold because - since they HAD been married

Ah, they were married. In other words they entered into a contract, most likely a common law contract, to create an entity known as Bill and Christine, and invite the state into their union and pool all of their assets and resources and build this new commercial entity under contract. That’s what it is Dennis, and I have no illusions about it and quite frankly I don’t understand why people do it, but I digress.

Most common law agreements are community, which means the new entity is 50/50 under any possible breach. I would need to see the pre nuptial agreements which excluded Bill’s purported separate estate assets from the common estate entity, signed by both parties prior to the nuptial contractual agreement in order to determine the validity and veracity of Bills claim of his separate estate.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
If she had integrity but was confused about joint ownership of property, then of course she wouldn't mind it if Bill keeps her half of the Ecuador property, right?

Well, one could certainly do that, hire appraisers to determine the value of the estate, and probate the estate. One would need to do land appraisals, appraise capital improvements, tangibles, intangibles, personal effects, including all assets brought into the community and all assets created during the community, and be careful not to comingle other estates, partnerships, and agreements, and take great care not to encumber the property in Ecuador which is co-owned by other interested parties.

One could then file paperwork in the venue which has proper jurisdiction over the estate, and petition the court for an equitable distribution, making a determination as to the merits based on evidence presented. One could hire attorney’s, professional consultants, appraisers, to allegedly represent the interested parties, although we all know attorneys represent the interests of the state and their own.

One could easily spend 60 grand on such an estate evaluation and court proceedings, and the outcome would most likely be unfavorable to both parties, enriching the attorneys, the state, and no one else. This would most likely encumber the Ecuador property as well and disenfranchise the other partners.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
I don't expect a notarized letter assigning her half of the Ecuador property to Bill to show up anytime soon.

Considering that this action, and the dissolution of the estate is most likely still pending, and Bill is in full possession of the balance of the estate assets in Ecuador, and has full beneficial use of the aforementioned assets, and Christine is in possession of some of the more liquid assets which are an undisclosed percentage of the total estate at this time, until there has been and equitable determination as to the value of the estate, and the estate has gone through probate, and the distribution of the assets has occurred, then it would be premature to make any kind of suppositions about the disposition of the assets, the estate, or who has equitable possession and how the assets are currently held.

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Bill asked us not to mention the personal theft.

From my point of view, and mind you, I am not a lawyer or an attorney, so don’t take this as legal advice, but the value of the estate has not been determined and an equitable distribution is pending. Therefore, I am not in any position to make any determination that Christine is a thief, as that would be slander and premature. To impugn someone’s character in an open forum, while the estate is in probate and the disposition is pending, seems like a terrible thing to do in my estimation.

If one was seeking an equitable solution from the other party, it seems like suicide to openly slander that individual in an open forum.

Remember, whatever your feelings are, you DO NOT have all the facts. If you have seen the agreement which excludes the gold from the estate, then please share it. Christine is a human being and deserves the same respect that Bill promised to give her when they said their vows, to love, honor and cherish each other.

Oh, and I find the allocation somewhat disingenuous, that Christine and Karelia are “harvesting” souls from Avalon and using misguided healing techniques, based on their poor deceptive character, and you need to “protect” the Milab’s from them by closing their accounts which they have not used in over a year.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven.

[enfoldedblue]

After reading many of the comments and wondering whether to add to them or not my fingers, still unsure wether I had anything of value to add... started to type ... so here I go. There is no doubt that divorce brings out the absolute worst in people. As I child I witnessed my calm educated parents transform into insane, hateful vitriol filled individuals who became bent on destroying each other. Both were convinced they were angel/victim and it was all the others fault. So much pain and hurt!

Both parties felt the other had taken something precious and irreplaceable from the other.... but because this 'thing' was not material and could not be quantified ... the fight focused on finances. Perhaps there is an element of this here ... I have no idea.

I just hope that both parties can heal from the pain and loss caused by this rift and trust that the universe will balance things out as required. Bill you seem to handling this in a calm and collected fashion... kudos.

When I went through a divorce 9 years ago my father said to me ... "well it turns out the things that I thought were bad about your relationship ... are now boons ... you have no money and no kids." It's true ... it certainly made things easier.

Love to all involved... and respect to the mod team for all the work and consideration that must have gone into this decision.

[sandy]

Loyalty and Betrayal...beliefs that run deep and IMHO appear to be part and parcel of this misguided thread.

As much as the theme is protecting MILABS the rub indicates otherwise.

The crew is together on this one and single voices in the wilderness no matter how caring will not be heard due to being out numbered and the crew bolstering their position with one another again and again.

I do encourage you to get passed herd think and check your own personal agenda's individually. They are based in your emotional being and not your head. Had I a relationship with these individuals, I may feel betrayed, back stabbed, abandoned, duped, used, undervalued, and on and on. This may have happened to me more than once in this life time of which compounds each layer that is stacked and thus my agenda would really need to be addressed as to my ultimate action in taking care of myself first and foremost.

The story of protection for others is slimy at best! If this were really the case, then Avalon would and should have a long list of dubious characters that have been members proven to be of ill will and reputation, who have taken advantage of more than just the MILABS, since its inception...........

Some things you just can't rationalize away your feelings by the actions you take and you just have to experience the loss and grief otherwise the layers get higher as life goes on.

I wish the best outcome for each, who have been harmed by the loss of these relationships with each other. May the sound of music be heard and sung in your hearts always.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
Most common law agreements are community, which means the new entity is 50/50 under any possible breach.

I don't know the laws in Ecuador, but I have substantially more familiarity with the community property marriage laws in California than I'd like.

In California, by default, new money, whether income or debt, incurred during the marriage is 50/50, but assets held by the individual parties prior to the marriage remain by default their separate assets. (Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor any legal equivalent.)

That default applies only if both parties hire lawyers and make a court impose terms.

If they make anything resembling a reasonable agreement themselves, they can apply their own decisions, within broad discretion. Just because the marriage was created as a legal entity doesn't mean that the state solely determines the divorce terms. Only if the two parties can't agree on something (that doesn't appear to the judge granting the divorce to be taking excess advantage of one of the parties) do the state defined default terms apply.

The best way, in my view, to handle divorces is for the two parties to work together to agree to terms that are the reasonable best that they can do to be fair to both parties, and to then cooperate on minimizing the legal fees and the risk that a judge having a bad day imposes some other settlement.

Of course, couples capable of that degree of cooperation on a difficult and complicated matter aren't usually seeking divorce.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
Remember, whatever your feelings are, you DO NOT have all the facts.

Yes - remember that .

[norman]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
Remember, whatever your feelings are, you DO NOT have all the facts.

Yes - remember that .

Facts, what are those, Paul ?

I just sniff the wind, and make my own mind up .......

[Mike]

Grip, Bill himself wholeheartedly confirmed Pauls original post, which used both the terms "theft" and "embezzlement". Do you think someone as detail oriented and meticulous and reputation conscious (and public!) as Bill would just clumsily and carelessly toss those words out there if he didnt first know the marriage laws in Ecuador??? He himself said it would be a pretty stupid thing to do, and I couldnt agree more. Do you think he's just arbitrarily making this sh!t up? For me, its not even a matter of whom to trust...It's what makes sense and what doesnt.

Christine has had plenty of time to defend herself against these accusations..right here on avalon. Her account has been open for quite some time now since this was made public. What a deafening silence she's made.

And even if her rationalization was that she'd keep the liquid assets while he kept the property, its a damn silly one. Maybe Bill was depending on using the money for car repairs, clothing, a cheese pizza, or just plain survival...WITHOUT HAVING TO SELL HIS BLOODY HOUSE FIRST. Does someone who takes 60 grand in coins - sans any communication at all - and leaves the country unannounced seem like an honest, trustworthy person to you?

Look, I KNOW how the donation theft went down, and it was damn sleazy and manipulative. It aint slander if it's true Grip.

Im not suggesting anyone blindly take sides here...or take any side at all. Im simply suggesting good ol fashioned common sense

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Mike (here)

Im not suggesting anyone blindly take sides here...or take any side at all. Im simply suggesting good ol fashioned common sense

Perheps the 'good ol' is not of service to us anymore, Mike. A simplistic thinking that relates to the surface only has never been in service for us in the first place, as beneath the surface participants and events takes place and steering of pots is done when consciousness is unaware

There are layers to every common sense

[Mike]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)

Posted by Mike (here)

Im not suggesting anyone blindly take sides here...or take any side at all. Im simply suggesting good ol fashioned common sense

Perheps the 'good ol' is not of service to us anymore, Mike. A simplistic thinking that relates to the surface only has never been in service for us in the first place, as beneath the surface participants and events takes place and steering of pots is done when consciousness is unaware

There are layers to every common sense

Sure thing Limor.

But also let us not make something simple into something needlessly complex

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Perheps the 'good ol' is not of service to us anymore, Mike. A simplistic thinking that relates to the surface only has never been in service for us in the first place, as beneath the surface participants and events takes place and steering of pots is done when consciousness is unaware

There are layers to every common sense

Sure thing Limor.

But also let us not make something simple into something needlessly complex

Agree, only if required

[Mike]

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)

Posted by Mike (here)
Sure thing Limor.

But also let us not make something simple into something needlessly complex

Only if required

Suit yourself

[Limor Wolf]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by Limor Wolf (here)
Agreed, only if required

Suit yourself

I kind of liked the bottomline Mantra from the Pele Report (Astrology) this week and will copy it here -

Like a captain sailing stormy seas,
I must stay awake and on course,
For anything comes and anything goes,
On this journey commissioned by Source.

"Well, as Churchill said: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." These times can be either, depending on how much you desire or resist the evolutionary impulses working through your unconscious soul. If you have been initiating growth and transformation of yourself and the expansion of global consciousness, then these can be rewarding times of breakthrough and transition when the results of your efforts bear fruit!

It may seem like an off topic thing, but perheps that's not the case at all

[transiten]

Personally I think this thread is one of the most important on Avalon ever because anything political/otherwordly-dimensional/and spiritual is personal so we should keep on watching our own shadow.

I'm absolutely convinced I have done unto others what I've experienced in my recent lifetime, that is i have been involved in black magic by free will or manipulation in former lifetimes and in this lifetime I have had to experience the other side of the coin by being decieved by a psycho-the-rapist and brainwashed by a meditation guru.

I also have done some things in this lifetime I'm not proud of out of "victim consciousness" and "now it has to be my turn"...Got Sun conj Kiron today, says:
A good day for admitting your weaknesses without condemning yourself altogether.

I'm still alive and hope I have developed a sense of who's to trust and not although I also lost some money to a "healer" recommended by someone on Avalon that now has made me never trust any healer I haven't met personally ever again, if any that is, don't think I need anyone else to heal me anymore.

[ulli]

Posted by transiten (here)
Personally I think this thread is one of the most important on Avalon ever because anything political/otherwordly-dimensional/and spiritual is personal so we should keep on watching our own shadow. I'm absolutely convinced I have done unto others what I've experienced in my recent lifetime, that is i have been invovlved in black magic by free will or manipulation in former lifetimes and in this lifetime I have had to experience the other side of the coin by being decieved by a psycho-the-rapist and brainwashed by a meditation guru. I'm still alive and hope I have developed a sense of who's to trust and not although I also lost some money to a "healer" recommended by someone on Avalon that now has made me never trust any healer I haven't met personally ever again.

This is the bottom line, transiten, and I would like to emphasize every word you wrote.
Thank you.
And this is exactly why the moderators were so concerned, because they knew that people were getting hurt.

We all know by now that dark entities exist and that some of our bravest are constantly getting exposed.
And I want to make a distinction, too, between courage and recklessness, without judgement.

Courageous people know that there are pitfalls and dangers and are always on guard, while proceeding into the unknown. Reckless people are driven by faith.
Over-confident, totally relying on their knowledge that life will continue eternally where no fear of death ever enters.
I'm glad such people exist, as they often clear a path for those who come after them.
But, anyone who wishes to travel at their side and does not yet have such a high degree of faith might expose themselves to getting hurt, confused, and even traumatized.

So the choice is ours, either stay with Avalon, where we can be assured of a leadership who manage the journey with a sense of responsibility or we go on a wild adventurous ride with the other type of traveler.

It's just that when they advertise themselves as "healers" that things get unbalanced. If one is sick one might prefer to be transported in a well-equipped ambulance rather then ride on bare horseback up at the front row of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

And yes, the word therapist can then easily become the rapist.
Fritz Perls, the founder of Gestalt Therapy, called it "mind f**king".

If someone drinks water from a river where it enters the sea they can be sure that water is no longer 100% pure, the way it would be near the source, or spring.

Sorry for all the metaphors, I couldn't think of a better way of making my point.

[norman]

Posted by ulli (here)

........And yes, the word therapist can then easily become the rapist......

Fritz Perls, the founder of Gestalt Therapy, called it "mind f**king".

......If someone drinks water from a river where it enters the sea they can be sure that water is no longer 100% pure,...

The issue here for me is a duality between head and heart.

I think we all know that "spirituality" in this wild and savage world we live in is a much miss used attempt at a definition.

Alchemy, is well known as a practice that tries to make one element of the earth into another. I think a lot about a spirtual alchemy that tries to make a heart orientated matter into a cerebrally orientated matter.

Is that good, or bad?..... I can't be sure, but my gut says it's a false effort and, at best, a waste of time.

That's my fundamental reason to be skeptical around anything intellectual that tries to define something spiritual, never mind something emotional or something emotionally reactive.