WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/301military/stat...89507954601984

[Ravenlocke]

Prigozhin is in Russia??

https://twitter.com/301military/stat...48480245866499

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/mazzenilsson/sta...90187322798080

Text:

The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) has arrested a spotter who allegedly aided the Russian army in targeting rockets at the center of Kramatorsk.

The SBU stated that they have detained an agent of Russian intelligence services who directed the missile strike on a café in the center of Kramatorsk. The suspect is an employee of a local gas transportation company and is claimed to be an agent of Russian military intelligence.

The suspect revealed that on June 27, he received an assignment to determine if the café was operational and “document the presence of visitors there.” To fulfill the task, he recorded a video of the establishment and the cars parked nearby, which he then sent to Russian military intelligence. According to the SBU, after receiving the video, the Russian forces shelled the café.

https://twitter.com/301military/stat...98992223490049

[Bill Ryan]

New from The Moon of Alabama:

• https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/0...tack.html#more

Ukraine SitRep: Prigozhin Affair - Kramatorsk Missile Attack

There is still some fallout from the Prigozhin affair.

The U.S. propaganda campaign that says that Russia has been weakened by it continues. While citing only 'western' intelligence affiliated sources the Washington Post headlines Putin’s standing as global strongman in jeopardy after revolt. Where please is evidence for that?

The New York Times assists in a useless attempt to sow fear and doubt on the Russian side:

A senior Russian general had advance knowledge of Yevgeny Prigozhin’s plans to rebel against Russia’s military leadership, according to U.S. officials briefed on American intelligence on the matter, which has prompted questions about what support the mercenary leader had inside the top ranks. The officials said they are trying to learn if Gen. Sergei Surovikin, the former top Russian commander in Ukraine, helped plan Mr. Prigozhin’s actions last weekend, which posed the most dramatic threat to President Vladimir V. Putin in his 23 years in power.

Gen. Sergei Surovikin of course knew that something was up with Wagner. The whole Russian leadership knew of it. Orders were obviously given for everyone to stand down and to let Prigozhin do what he had planned to do.

There was zero action taken by the border guards, the internal security force Rosguardia, by the police and the Russian military. That is unexplainable unless there was an order from very high up to step back instead of seeking a fight. President Putin's primary aim was to avoid unnecessary casualties which he largely achieved.

One miscalculation happened. Wagner had a mobile Pantsir-1 air defense system that tried to cover its convoys on their trip towards Moscow. Several Russian helicopters and a plane where shot down when they came too near to them. It seems that the Pantsirs were a surprise.

Wagner was not supposed to have them:

🌻 Fertilizer Finder 🌻 - @ManiacMagic1 - 19:38 UTC · Jun 27, 2023 A source in the Russian Defense Ministry reports that neither the Ministry of Defense nor the Tula machine-building plant "Scheglovsky Val" sold Yevgeny Prigozhin and his firms the Pantsir S-1 anti-aircraft missile system worth more than $14,000,000. How the "Pantsir" ended up in the possession of the terrorist organization "PMC Wagner" and whether the governor of the Tula region Alexei Dyumin is involved in this, are now being investigated by the investigators of the GVSU of the ICR and the SU of the FSB.
Embedded video

The source above is pro-Ukrainian so this might be another false claim intelligence play but I think there is some truth to it. Russian air defenses in Ukraine work in an integrated environment where all systems from wide area surveillance and long range defense down to the short range Pantsirs are integrated. Under such a system it never made sense to give Wagner their own independent air defenses. It would instead be provided air cover by the Russian army.

As soon as the Pantsir was observed within the Wagner convoy the Russian military should have shut down the air space near Wagner's route. That it did not immediately do so was a mistake that cost it several capable pilots.

There is still the open question of how many Wagner people were actually involved in the affair. History Legend has counted the transport equipment in the various convoys and estimates 1,500 to 2,000. The number seems reasonable. It means that large majority of the current 20,000 Wagner fighters did not take part in the affair.

In his latest speech Putin said that Prigozhin catering business with the army as well as his other business will now come under scrutiny. There was without doubt some over-billing and fraud involved. Prigozhin should have know that under Putin's regime oligarchs are not allowed to intervene in politics. Putin successfully fought against those oligarchs who tried as soon as he came to power. Prigozhin's attempt to get Defense Minister Shoigu and General Gerasimov fired was such an intervention. It will likely cost him his business.

~~~

Yesterday there was a Russian missile attack on a hotel complex in Kramatorsk:

The missile tore into the crowded Ria Lounge restaurant at dinnertime on Tuesday, setting off a large blaze that burned for more than two hours. By Wednesday afternoon, the Ukrainian authorities said that 10 people had been confirmed dead — including 14-year-old twin sisters — and 61 others were wounded."

Video from the scene taken immediately after the event show English speaking men with the one helping a wounded exposing a quad angle tattoo with the number 3 written in it on his right arm (see at 7 sec in).


bigger

This is said to be a sign of the 3rd Ranger Battalion of the U.S. army which is a part of the U.S. special operation forces.

Another video taken during rubble clearing at night has a (British?) English speaker saying "Look what these bastards are doing to this country. There's soldiers under this rubble all over."

This seems to confirm that the hotel complex and its restaurant were not exclusively used for civilian purposes but housed and catered to foreign soldiers.

[Bruce G Charlton]

Lessons for Russia?

My understanding of Russia is that the nation's distinctive (perhaps unique) spiritual destiny includes a restoration of the Orthodox Church in a new version of the Tsar system.

Part of this (cause and consequence) is that secular nationalism is not, and never has been for very long, a sufficiently strong motivator to unite the people of a nation and inspire them to courage and self-sacrifice. Indeed, nationalism cannot even be a force for good, unless it is united with religious/ spiritual conviction.

In Russia, the political system and the Orthodox Church would need to work in harmony, seamlessly - as the ideal (an ideal dating from the Eastern Roman "Byzantine" Empire, which survived c.1000 years after the fall of Rome).

Up until now, Russia has continued to have people who are not Orthodox Christians among its senior leadership class - Prigozhin is an example. However expedient this may be in the short-term; I do not think that such leaders can be regarded as loyal and properly-motivated in the way that Russia needs if she is to fulfil her destiny.

This is indeed a short-term tactical versus long-term strategic issue; because there is always (including in this case) a cost in the short-term in order to pursue the best long-term destiny.

I suggest, therefore, that Russia needs to decide whether it is in essence a multi-cultural Empire; or an Eastern Orthodox nation because it cannot be both -- and, if an Orthodox nation then it must - soon - start to act accordingly, and do it before it gets too late and the chance is lost.

[shaberon]

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
My understanding of Russia is that the nation's distinctive (perhaps unique) spiritual destiny includes a restoration of the Orthodox Church in a new version of the Tsar system.

How about: the actual spiritual restoration of Orthodoxy, oblivious to borders?


Reviewing, we found that in the late 1700s--time of Catherine the Great--there was definitely a plan to make New Byzantium by driving out the Ottomans. I don't think it ever came to blows, nothing really happened.

Then the nineteenth century was all about Greek independence, it had worldwide support, in the sense that most Europeans and Americans thought the Greeks were Christians, and that the Ottomans were Muslims, so everybody knows what side they are on.

This "worked", except it did not include Constantinople, and turned in to an international collectivist "Bavarian Greece".

No one quite realized that the Greeks are Christian and others are "whatever", but, at the same time, it makes obvious a "Greek diaspora" which must be far more influential than expected.

Russia has no choice, it is already multi-cultural, especially with regards to Buddhism and Islam. There is nothing in or of an Orthodox Tsar that would say "I must forcibly convert everyone like the French and English do", but there is something to say "we need to know if you are a Buddhist, Muslim, or...", and then if you can't come up with a suggestion, you are like an atheist, susceptible to Nihilism.

There is not really such a thing as an Orthodox Crusade, although they were the target of the Fourth.

The Russian "nation", based on language and culture, is heavily Greek.

The Russian "state", based on laws governing an area, comes from Kievan Rus, which was an invitation to foreign authorities to settle the ongoing problem of feuds based on property disputes and lawlessness.


China and India ran purges against what they were told was Christianity, which was nothing Orthodox, but coming from the likes of Jesuits and Moravians and so forth, which in many cases did have a corruptive influence. So far I have mostly seen that Orthodoxy rolls out missions to the limited extent that it can, and they seem to be only interested in increasing conversions.

It does share a doctrinal difficulty with other churches, in the sense that Jews are seen as deniers or refusers of redemption, and so how one deals with that, I am not sure.

At street level, from what I have found to be the real face of Orthodoxy, Islam, and Buddhism, is that we tolerate and help anyone regardless of ethnicity. There is hardly any difference in our "system of values" in the moral sense. If we apply any of our actual teachings, there is no compulsion to whitewash a country. This is also the view of Guru Nanak, i. e. the founder of Sikhism, who found himself caught between Hindu and Muslim extremists, and said basically the same thing, just read your books seriously and you would stop all this nonsense.

Sikhism is the last "religion".

I have seen recently in the Orthodox diaspora, that one of its minor members, I think Coptic, met with one of the eastern branches over a centuries-old dispute that had knocked them out of communion. Several meetings have been held and so far the result is that it is iconoclasm, a slightly different choice of words trying to express the same thing, something where you can't tell what the actual difference is supposed to be.

It is not physically possible to do that with non-Orthodoxy.


The point being raised perhaps more strongly applies to India. They indeed have a type of nationalism which would entail "Greater India" encompassing the expanded borders of any historically Indian rulership, along with, a type of mono-Hinduism and social engineering. Although called a "religion", "Hinduism" is an umbrella term for different kinds of doctrines and beliefs with their own history of clashes and compromises.

I would admire Russia for showing that followers of Buddha, Jesus, and Mohammed, are "united" rather than "at each other's throats", because they are following their own teachings. There is nothing wrong with it being "majority Orthodox", or, even it having a Tsar crowned in that name, but if so, what they are really handling is the religion of Jerusalem.

Not really the Byzantine Empire.

I would say this is a thing much like Wade Frazier's point of "paradigm shift", or, i. e. if a person can even begin to think and understand in terms of an energy system that is not dirty and exploitive. The cultural story of the religion of Jerusalem is something that does not seem to be understood in the west. Although now, it mainly resides in Russia, this was hardly the case for some 1600 years of it.

[Bill Ryan]

Larry Johnson published a long and detailed article yesterday titled

A Working Theory on Prigo’s Coup

• https://sonar21.com/a-working-theory-on-prigos-coup

The core section I copy below is just a part of this. He [rightly] excuses himself with caveats that this is all just a provisional hypothesis, and there's also a long intro stating a bunch of assumptions concerning the accuracy or understanding of earlier events. He also calls Prigozhin 'Prigo' throughout, for reasons I understand each time I carefully type out the name myself and then have to check it's correct.

Having said all that, here's his hypothesis:

~~~

Prigo was bought and recruited by Western and Ukrainian intelligence during or before the battle of Bakhmut. During the battle he and/or his handlers decided to use Wagner PMC as a tool against the Russian State – to weaken it and to create command paralysis at the right moment.

The first step was to split Wagner from the Russian Army and create among the troops hatred against the MoD and the Russian General Staff. To do this, Prigo increased operational tempo in Bakhmut beyond ammunition resources and that way basically started killing his own troops in large numbers.

He then turned their attention to the carnage he himself had engineered and started blaming the “corrupt Russian system” – apart from Putin who was too popular to go after. The goal was to alienate and anger Wagner troops and to turn them into willing tools for the plan.

After Bakhmut, Prigo followed the plan concocted by his handlers. He escalated the corruption accusations and created victimhood and persecution mentality among his troops. He also tried to create doubts among Russian troops in general by articulating Ukrainian talking points and outright lies about the situation on the battlefields and the origin of the conflict.

According to him there was never any Ukrainian aggression toward Donbass and the Russian leadership was lying about battlefield progress. These talking points and their aims have clear Western and Ukrainian fingerprints.

While this was going on, the Ukrainian offensive wasn’t going well and Russian lines hadn’t been breached. It was, nevertheless, decided (perhaps a month ago) to carry the coup out between June 20 and June 30. Ukrainian forces would be assembled and prepared for the great paralysis offensive, in case the coup was successful.

The constraining factor was the increased pressure on Prigo from the Russian MoD. They insisted he signed a contract which would essentially remove him from Wagner. Prigo stalled and basically went into hiding to prevent the Russian authorities from arresting him or simply killing him.

The coup started according to plan and, as Prigo and his Western handlers had expected, the Russian Government was hesitant to fight them all-out on Russian soil. Prigo went to Rostov on Don and talked love and justice like a sixties hippie – and demanded to have Shoigu and Konashenkov brought to him to give them a stern talking-to.

The Wagner troops were polite and avoided any confrontation. They were there for justice, peace and love – unless the evil Russian Army attacked of course.

While this was going on, the Russian Army noticed significant movements of Ukrainian troops in the south during the night and started bombing them vigorously. The Ukrainians kept preparing and waited for coup success and Russian paralysis.

The color revolution branded “March for Justice” started when Prigo sent a significant number of his most brainwashed Wagner troops toward Moscow. These troops were expendable and were, if the plan succeeded, all going to be killed or captured. Their only purpose in (what remained of) their lives was to force the Russian Government to engage in battles in the Moscow area, simulating a civil war.

As the Wagner suicide columns approached Moscow, the Ukrainian terrorist cells in the city would be activated. They would carry out a number of attacks all over the city to engineer massive confusion and the impression that the Government had lost control. Chaos in the city and battles in the outskirts would create disbelief and shock among the Russian people and Russian soldiers, and hopefully total chaos in the command structure, resulting in paralysis. At that point the big Ukrainian attack would start.

Then things went bad. The chaos in Moscow didn’t materialize and the Russian government avoided all out attacks on the columns. Perhaps they knew what the plan was and acted accordingly, who knows. Chaos and uncertainty in both Russian society and the Army also failed to materialize as Russians decided not to panic, and instead supported their Government. Seeing this disaster unfold, with no paralysis visible, the Ukrainian NATO army cancelled their big offensive.

At that point Prigo realized he had failed and a theater production starring Lukashenko was arranged to wind things down. Prigo went into exile in Belarus and the Wagner suicide troops went back to their barracks. I don’t see a bright future for Prigo, unless he can bust out of Belarus and get to the West.

So, in conclusion, this wasn’t necessarily a coup. Maybe there were traitors waiting in the wings to seize power, but it is more likely that the objectives were simply to weaken the Russian State through chaos, and to enable command paralysis so that the Ukrainians could break through the Russian defense lines – thereby weakening the Russian State further.

I have no idea if this is the correct interpretation of events or not. It’s just idle speculation, but who knows…

[Satori]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Larry Johnson published a long and detailed article yesterday titled

A Working Theory on Prigo’s Coup

• https://sonar21.com/a-working-theory-on-prigos-coup

The core section I copy below is just a part of this. He [rightly] excuses himself with caveats that this is all just a provisional hypothesis, and there's also a long intro stating a bunch of assumptions concerning the accuracy or understanding of earlier events. He also calls Prigozhin 'Prigo' throughout, for reasons I understand each time I carefully type out the name myself and then have to check it's correct.

Having said all that, here's his hypothesis:

~~~

Prigo was bought and recruited by Western and Ukrainian intelligence during or before the battle of Bakhmut. During the battle he and/or his handlers decided to use Wagner PMC as a tool against the Russian State – to weaken it and to create command paralysis at the right moment.

The first step was to split Wagner from the Russian Army and create among the troops hatred against the MoD and the Russian General Staff. To do this, Prigo increased operational tempo in Bakhmut beyond ammunition resources and that way basically started killing his own troops in large numbers.

He then turned their attention to the carnage he himself had engineered and started blaming the “corrupt Russian system” – apart from Putin who was too popular to go after. The goal was to alienate and anger Wagner troops and to turn them into willing tools for the plan.

After Bakhmut, Prigo followed the plan concocted by his handlers. He escalated the corruption accusations and created victimhood and persecution mentality among his troops. He also tried to create doubts among Russian troops in general by articulating Ukrainian talking points and outright lies about the situation on the battlefields and the origin of the conflict.

According to him there was never any Ukrainian aggression toward Donbass and the Russian leadership was lying about battlefield progress. These talking points and their aims have clear Western and Ukrainian fingerprints.

While this was going on, the Ukrainian offensive wasn’t going well and Russian lines hadn’t been breached. It was, nevertheless, decided (perhaps a month ago) to carry the coup out between June 20 and June 30. Ukrainian forces would be assembled and prepared for the great paralysis offensive, in case the coup was successful.

The constraining factor was the increased pressure on Prigo from the Russian MoD. They insisted he signed a contract which would essentially remove him from Wagner. Prigo stalled and basically went into hiding to prevent the Russian authorities from arresting him or simply killing him.

The coup started according to plan and, as Prigo and his Western handlers had expected, the Russian Government was hesitant to fight them all-out on Russian soil. Prigo went to Rostov on Don and talked love and justice like a sixties hippie – and demanded to have Shoigu and Konashenkov brought to him to give them a stern talking-to.

The Wagner troops were polite and avoided any confrontation. They were there for justice, peace and love – unless the evil Russian Army attacked of course.

While this was going on, the Russian Army noticed significant movements of Ukrainian troops in the south during the night and started bombing them vigorously. The Ukrainians kept preparing and waited for coup success and Russian paralysis.

The color revolution branded “March for Justice” started when Prigo sent a significant number of his most brainwashed Wagner troops toward Moscow. These troops were expendable and were, if the plan succeeded, all going to be killed or captured. Their only purpose in (what remained of) their lives was to force the Russian Government to engage in battles in the Moscow area, simulating a civil war.

As the Wagner suicide columns approached Moscow, the Ukrainian terrorist cells in the city would be activated. They would carry out a number of attacks all over the city to engineer massive confusion and the impression that the Government had lost control. Chaos in the city and battles in the outskirts would create disbelief and shock among the Russian people and Russian soldiers, and hopefully total chaos in the command structure, resulting in paralysis. At that point the big Ukrainian attack would start.

Then things went bad. The chaos in Moscow didn’t materialize and the Russian government avoided all out attacks on the columns. Perhaps they knew what the plan was and acted accordingly, who knows. Chaos and uncertainty in both Russian society and the Army also failed to materialize as Russians decided not to panic, and instead supported their Government. Seeing this disaster unfold, with no paralysis visible, the Ukrainian NATO army cancelled their big offensive.

At that point Prigo realized he had failed and a theater production starring Lukashenko was arranged to wind things down. Prigo went into exile in Belarus and the Wagner suicide troops went back to their barracks. I don’t see a bright future for Prigo, unless he can bust out of Belarus and get to the West.

So, in conclusion, this wasn’t necessarily a coup. Maybe there were traitors waiting in the wings to seize power, but it is more likely that the objectives were simply to weaken the Russian State through chaos, and to enable command paralysis so that the Ukrainians could break through the Russian defense lines – thereby weakening the Russian State further.

I have no idea if this is the correct interpretation of events or not. It’s just idle speculation, but who knows…

I think he’d be closer to the mark, if he argued that Prigozhin played along with the West, pretending to do what they expected, but all the while working with Putin and the Russian MOD. This was a sting operation against the West, which resulted in an influx of bunches of USA cash to Russia.

Russia is stronger. The West is weaker. No matter how you slice and dice it.

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/Sprinter99880/st...75429186404354

https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status...71855094300676

https://twitter.com/Navsteva/status/1674136511971840022

[Ravenlocke]

Serbian army convoy heading towards Kosovo spotted with BRDM-2 received from Russia.

#source

Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.
https://t.me/+B6ixfOM5VkxhODQx

@Slavyangrad

https://twitter.com/djuric_zlatko/st...79244836941824

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/AKorybko/status/1674066199242473479

http://zububrothers.com/2023/06/28/b...igozhins-coup/

Be Very Skeptical Of US Intel Claiming That Surovikin May Have Helped Plan Prigozhin’s Coup

Russian General Knew About
Mercenary Chief's Rebellion Plans,
U.S. Officials Say Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of Wagner, may have believed he
had support in Russia's military.

Nothing that the US says about Russia should ever be taken at face value, especially when it concerns the most sensitive affairs of its leadership.

The New York Times (NYT) published a piece on Tuesday citing unnamed US officials who claimed that their country’s intelligence services believe that Army General Sergey Surovikin was aware in advance of Wagner chief Yevgeny Prigozhin’s failed coup attempt and may even have helped planned it. Their sources also alleged that other Russian Generals might have been involved as well since they claim that the exiled mercenary leader wouldn’t have launched his armed rebellion unless he expected support.

To the NYT’s credit, they informed their audience that “much of what the United States and its allies know is preliminary” and that “American officials have an interest in pushing out information that undermines the standing of General Surovikin”. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov rubbished this report on Wednesday, however, saying that “I think that now there will be a lot of gossip, speculation on this issue [the armed mutiny] and so on. I think this is one of such examples.”

Observers should be very skeptical of US intelligence claiming that General Surovikin may have helped plan Prigozhin’s coup since even the NYT candidly admitted that their country has a reason to propagate disinformation about him. The target of their latest information warfare attack actually recorded a video the night that Prigozhin’s coup began calling on him to stop in order to avoid bloodshed. Even if he was speculatively in cahoots with him, that should have signaled to the Wagner chief that his plot was foiled.

There’s no reason right now to believe that General Surovikin was involved, however, since the notion that Prigozhin wouldn’t have acted unless he expected support doesn’t mean that he launched his coup after explicitly receiving such from high-level collaborators in the Defense Ministry (DM). After all, he might have simply misinterpreted grumbling from officials like him about Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and/or Chief of General Staff Valery Gerasimov as suggesting support for his secret plans.

Nevertheless, it’s important for the security services’ investigation into these events to complete its course without foreign meddling, which is what the NYT’s latest report can be regarded as. It appears aimed at making Russians think that General Surovikin is guilty so that President Putin feels pressured to remove him, which that outlet predicts “would undoubtedly benefit Ukraine, whose Western-backed troops are pushing a new counteroffensive that is meant to try to win back territory seized by Moscow.”

In the event he decides not to do anything, then the Western media and that de facto New Cold War bloc’s officials could then spin this as “proving his weakness” with all that entails for his future. This strategy is similar to the one that was earlier employed in mid-May after the Washington Post (WaPo) claimed to have obtained previously unreported documents from the Pentagon leaks alleging that Prigozhin was in cahoots with Kiev.

As was analyzed in hindsight here about how the Wagner chief ended up being their “useful idiot”, it was arguably the case that this particular information provocation was meant to exacerbate the rivalry between his group and the DM. Both sides were pressured to act first against the other: Prigozhin could have pushed his coup plans ahead if he thought that the DM might exploit that report as the pretext for an impending crackdown; and the DM might have thought they had to root out a dangerous traitor.

Informed by this recent precedent, it might very well be the case that the NYT’s latest report about what’s being presented to the global public as American intelligence’s latest assessment is also motivated by the desire to manipulate Russia’s internal political dynamics at the highest level. The specific intent is to pressure President Putin into removing General Surovikin out of fear that his authority would be discredited in the eyes of his people if he doesn’t.

The premises upon which this influence operation is being waged are false, however, which is why it won’t succeed except in misleading their fellow Westerners (including those among the Alt-Media Community who generally sympathize with Russia but are prone to believe the latest conspiracies). For starters, President Putin isn’t influenced by public opinion when making any decisions, especially those regarding national security such as this one.

Second, the Russian public isn’t all that influenced by the Mainstream Media as it is, let alone claims from their existential enemy’s intelligence officials who they instinctively distrust. The third reason is that unnamed US officials already admitted to their country’s media that they withheld their detailed information about Prigozhin’s plans from their allies and Russia alike in order to let events unfold on their own. Another source then explained why when revealing that the US expected a lot of bloodshed.

That last-mentioned detail is reason enough not to believe that the latest reports are being shared with the public for supposedly altruistic reasons related to helping President Putin protect himself from suspected traitors like they’re framing General Surovikin as being. To the contrary, it suggests that the reason why they’re sharing this information now is to provoke even more bloodshed, albeit this time inflicted by Ukraine upon Russia by possibly giving it an edge on the battlefield if he’s removed.

To be absolutely clear, President Putin will make whatever decision he believes is aligned with his country’s national interests after his security services’ investigation into events is concluded, thus meaning that his speculative removal would be done for those reasons and not because of any pressure. Having clarified that, it’s relevant to reiterate what was written earlier about how there’s no reason right now to believe that General Surovikin was involved in plotting Prigozhin’s coup or is under investigation.

From the looks of it, these claims are being made to provoke the same sort of internal political divisions inside Russia as those that were earlier shared by WaPo last month. Nothing that the US says about Russia should ever be taken at face value, especially when it concerns the most sensitive affairs of its leadership. General Surovikin should be assumed innocent unless President Putin is convinced that he’s guilty since wildly speculating about his patriotism services to advance the US’ divide-and-rule agenda.

[Tintin]

From Will Schryver via Twitter referencing a voxUkraine poll, to whit:

"I would bet these poll results significantly understate the degree to which these opinions are held within Ukraine. And to the extent that is true, it suggests to me that when the NATO/Ukrainian defeat is finally complete, and its costs clearly manifest, we will see a violent outrage in most of Ukraine against all those responsible for leading them into this terrible catastrophe. This is precisely why I have long argued against the notion of some sort of protracted anti-Russian insurgency following this war. Indeed, I predict it will be just the opposite: most Ukrainians will blame the west and the neo-Nazis for the disaster, and will gravitate strongly towards the Russian pole of the new multipolar world."

--------------------

Many of us sharing news here, and occasional and sometimes very firm informed views regarding this tragic situation hold out some hope that after the dust has settled, that this despicable regime in Ukraine is ousted; that some 'grown ups' are installed, which I am certain is what the larger number of Ukrainian citizenry would wish for.

They are very well aware of how bad it is there and the true nature of their wretched government, and I wish them the best of luck, if they can find the bravery to galvanise and work in concert to free themselves from the rancid ideologues in 'power'

-----------------------

Source: https://twitter.com/NinaByzantina/st...62060014542848

Text:

VoxUkraine published a poll this week, and something didn’t go according to plan:

✅ 43% (in Ukraine)/36% (Ukrainians abroad) believe that Ukraine has a Nazi problem

✅ 29% (in Ukraine)/35% (Ukrainians abroad) consider the 2014 Maidan to be a regime change

[Ravenlocke]

https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/st...42927905251328

https://tass.com/world/1639523?utm_s...m_social_share

Cardinal Zuppi to discuss settlement of Ukraine conflict in Moscow

Officially, the program of Zuppi's visit was not announced by either the Vatican or the Russian side

VATICAN, June 28. /TASS/. Papal peace envoy Cardinal Matteo Zuppi will begin the second stage of his mission in Moscow on Wednesday. According to the press service of the Holy See, the trip will last until June 29 and its main goal is to make a humanitarian contribution to the search for "a way out of the current tragic situation in order to achieve a just peace."

According to the Rai News 24 TV channel, the Cardinal arrived in the Russian capital on Tuesday evening, staying at the Apostolic nunciature. Officially, the program of Zuppi's visit was not announced by either the Vatican or the Russian side. On June 29, the Cardinal will participate in the service in the main Catholic cathedral in Moscow. According to sources in the Russian Orthodox Church, Zuppi's contact with Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia is possible. Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin also previously did not rule out that such a meeting might take place. Earlier, Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that Vladimir Putin has no plans to meet with Zuppi yet.

From June 15 to 18, a number of meetings, including with Pope Francis, were held by Metropolitan Anthony of Volokolamsk, Chairman of the Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate. He met with Cardinal Parolin and the Secretary of the Holy See for Relations with States, Archbishop Paul Gallagher. Vladyka did not meet with Juppi, but it is possible that he discussed his mission with his interlocutors.

Zuppi, President of the Italian Bishops' Conference and Archbishop of Bologna, visited Kiev in early June to meet with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky and religious figures. On June 15-18, Metropolitan Anthony of Volokolamsk, Chairman of the Moscow Patriarchate’s Department for External Church Relations, held a series of meetings at the Vatican, including with Pope Francis.

[BMJ]

I just came across Elon Musks thoughts on the coup d"etat, distraction and psyop.

[Bill Ryan]

I've not listened to this yet, but it's just finished streaming and though over 2 hours long is sure to be excellent value. The video text reads:

Col. Douglas MacGregor [live in the studio with headphones] joins Patrick Bet-Davis [who's a good interviewer]. They will discuss Russia, Ukraine, the woke military, the Trump Tape, Milley, War at the border, and Taiwan independence.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=o92oSgU17Lo

[Gwin Ru]

...

... BardsFM + Dr. Lee Merritt (she reads Russian and gets down to material sources): From mortar operation in the field all the way to the real big picture:

Ep2346_BardsFM - A Conversation with Dr. Lee Merritt 1:34:56

7 hours ago

BardsFM (Official Channel)

#RussiaAndUkraine
#SatanicPedoCult
#Bees
- electroculture
- True history

Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/v2udh1y

Russian general Sergei Surovikin: no tag, no rank, no medals. Stripped of any insignia down to gallows fodder?

[atman]

Pardon my (Canadian) French, but may this namby-pamby boot-licker, peace flag waver hypocrite but obvious warmongerer, as well as perverse neo-con POS... rot in Hell.

Text of the tweet:

WATCH: Mike Pence makes surprise visit to Ukraine, tells @DashaBurns that American support for Ukraine "is bigger than politics."

Mike Pence: If Russia wins, “the second half of the 21st century could look an awful lot more like the first half of the 20th century.”

https://twitter.com/MeetThePress/sta...31299103395850

[ExomatrixTV]

[Eric J (Viking)]

Western intelligence agencies also found out early about the plans by Prigozhin, Putin’s former confidant, by analyzing electronic communications intercepts and satellite imagery, according to a person familiar with the findings. Western officials said they believe the original plot had a good chance of success but failed after the conspiracy was leaked, forcing Prigozhin to improvise an alternative plan.

Further reading
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...s-backed-west/

Viking

[Gwin Ru]

...

... Post Russian Rebellion, Now What? w/SCOTT RITTER 23:32

Streamed live 38 minutes ago

Judge Napolitano - Judging Freedom

#Ukraine
#Putin
#Russia

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_WAeyhh1u9E