The 8 Passengers case & the role of the family

[All is one]

I'm sure by now you will have seen some flashes of the 8 Passengers parenting story being discussed somewhere.

8 PASSENGERS CASE

If you don't know what it's about here is an update:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZjorEKzoHSY

ROLE OF THE FAMILY UNIT

Family units are important. They’re both the foundation and the achilles’ heel on which the complete structure of society is built.
Still there are a lot of people who do not get to live a harmonious nurturing childhood.
Unfortunately no one seems to really want to examine this part of society and where it goes wrong. Situations like in the 8 passengers happen in more families, but it’s sad that it takes a malnourished, duck taped and wounded child to escape from a window and look for help in the neighborhood for us to want to notice anything is wrong.

Why would this be?

What do you think?

Food one of the narcissistic family control tactics:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bESOHhaSWCI

REASON distorted/ really BAD FAMILY SITUATIONS KEEP EXISTING

I think it's because to be able to examine what goes wrong on this level of society one needs to first be able to examine and heal one’s own shadow side. And most people don’t want or don’t dare to examine their own shadow side. (And some people like narcissist, sociopaths and psychopaths are incapable of thoroughly examining and dealing with their own shadow side.)

The lack of people that examine, heal and deal with their own shadow side makes it so that society as a whole does not evolve in to something better. Because most of the things that go wrong in society are passed on from the shadow behavior of one person to the shadow side of the other. As long as that is not dealt with those shadow patters keep repeating and manifesting in society. In other words if each person does not work on their own shadow aspects it blocks evolution and precipitates as hypocritical behavior and thinking on all levels.

As a result/consequently: If people are incapable of healing their own shadow side and becoming balanced individuals, societal services need to intervene.
Unfortunately those societal services mostly intervene in a flawed way or much too late or don’t have the knowledge or possibilities to help at their disposal.

I think we as a society are partly responsible for allowing these situations to happen.
How?
Because most oftenly people see/hear things going wrong, but believe that some social service or someone else will stop the bad treatment of the child. Unfortunately social services are not capable or equipped to help most of the time and most other people think that someone else will come to that child’s aid as well. So in the end the child(ren) never gets any real help.

Thus when anything goes wrong in a child’s life it’s always someone else’s responsibility. The parents are not responsible because they followed the advice from a therapist or doctor or teacher or friend … The therapist or doctor or teacher or friend is not responsible because it’s not their child etc. ... and so the story continuous.

And in this way when something goes really wrong no one is responsible, but everyone is sorry after everything went really wrong.

SOLUTION: EASY ACCESS TO SOCIAL SERVICES & JUSTICE system for children

Cases like that would not be able to happen if only children would get easier access to some type of justice & social service system and thus get equal protection and rights as adults.

See thread proposing new type of justice and social services structure: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1492918

I am of the opinion that children should from a fairly young age be able to open a case for help in this kind of new justice system. Most of the time such cases should be relatively easy to investigate and solve in some way. Just take the 8 passenger’s case; the evidence was spread all over the internet and still no service took the time to investigate any claim …

Child care services didn’t help the children in the first place for years. Giving those same institutions more power to intervene without giving the children equal rights and access to the justice system and research each claim like a real case will only amount to more mistakes on the side of the social services.

The way things are now it seems that society as a whole mostly is much more interested in hushing problematic situations till the point of no return only to then tear families apart and put the children in foster homes or so, rather than to really solve the causes for these situations or to make sure that the children get real help before situations escalate beyond repair.

In most families parents as well as children make some mistakes. But there are times when things can go way too wrong. Even when one is growing up in such a family (which leads to children mostly not being aware of the mistreatment), one can sense when things are out of hand and that point something should definitively be done.

Hence the idea of giving everyone, including children, easy access to a justice system and social services.

NEIGHBOURS & FRIENDS:

But now you’re thinking if it is not better to let neighbours and friends put an end to such situations?

Well, almost all families present their best side to the outside world and with distorted families this the of virtue signalling is even much more augmented. Because of this extreme virtue signalling other people do not dare to intervene or make any comments. After all they do not want to be pointed out their own flaws/issues.

Parents of distorted families are mostly the only voice explaining everything to the outside world. The story of the child/children is never really heard or gets twisted by the parents’ stories.

In that manner those parents successfully drive a wedge between their own children and the rest of the world.
In essence abusive parents use all tactics and methods to threaten their child from speaking up about any type of mistreatment at home.
The more they feel the child would dare to say anything the more they will deliberately isolate the child from their siblings and/or the rest of the world, meanwhile inventing all kinds of reasons and excuses for this.


EASY ACCESS

But now you’re probably questioning how such a sequestered child would be able to contact even that new more accessible type of justice system?

Maybe having some public computers/phones available in easily and publicly accessible places (like stores, town centers, market places, schools) would make it easier for kids to get access to more justice? Also make the system accessible to anyone from everywhere, so that the kids for example could ask someone else’s phone for opening a case …

Clearly our system is not functioning correctly if, well looking, virtue signaling, families can broadcast and get away with this type of behavior.



What do you guys think?

What would need to change or happen to make sure all children can grow up in harmonious nurturing families?

Who should be able to intervene/control how people parent their children and at what point?

In my personal opinion this control should equally be in the hands of the children and parents themselves. But easy access to a justice system and social services for everyone from everywhere would be necessary to make this work.

[Jim_Duyer]

IMHO I don't believe that the non-reporting is a result of not having access to a telephone - fear keeps the person silent. And at some point early in life, the person probably doesn't understand that what Mommy/Daddy or relatives, or all of the above are doing is anything out of the ordinary.
It's a tough situation. Do you allow "Teachers" more access so that they can report situations or would that just be adding another log on the fire?

And unfortunately, these children often grow up to marry someone just like the ones that abused them, and sometimes they even become abusers themselves. The cycle needs to be broken, for sure. But the best way to do that? I don't know. Thanks for reminding us of something that we would rather not focus on. We should.

[All is one]

@Jim_Duyer: Thanks for your honest reaction.

I kind of seem specialized in bringing up topics no one wants to get in to. Although we all should be thinking of better solutions for these issues. For they shape our society and evolution.

It’s true that fear plays a big part in children not speaking up or reaching out for help. Yet, even when they do try to reach out for help they are rarely really heard or helped (Children have no clue of how the justice and social system works. Hence they end up telling their story to the wrong people that will/can not help them.).

Easy access does matter: Letting children report their issues in a faster easier way (similarly to how one can easily open and escalate a case on PayPal) could make sure they get the right help faster and prevent situations like this from escalating.

[All is one]

WHAT are we looking at?

I’m sure that every beautiful family looks like a mess when one examines it too closely.
Just like those Monet paintings (https://www.wikiart.org/en/claude-monet)
look serene from a distance but just look like messy blobs of paint thrown together when one looks at them closely.

Drawing attention to this case is thus not intended to break down the value of the family unit, but to shine a light on all the possible factors that can contribute to the escalation of family issues to similar lows.

Thus Underneath contemplations are not describing the exact situation of this case.
They are intended to give insights in the dynamics of a dysfunctional family structure.

Unfortunately the core issues within a family & in society only become visible and known when things don’t go as planned, issues arise etc.


Recognizing the (IN)VISIBLE DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILY:

The visable and invisible effects of a dysfunctional family: mostly only become more visable when the scape goat flees the family structure or speaks up.
Yet, all the other family members also carry the effects of the dysfunctional dynamics within them (shadow side). 

And even in families where the issues don’t escalate to the extend of being known, the children internalize the unhealthy thinking and behavioral patterns of their parents/caregivers.
So how and when can we know that we’re looking at a dysfunctional family situation?
Maybe this is the first and most important question.

For this I find that following video of Sam Vaknin (Get Rid of Your Sick Family! 13 signs of dysfunctional family) gives us some way to measure to what degree the dysfunctionality of a family has manifested.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zgv3rxod1pA

Possibilities of why this situation arose:

✻Next possibilities will be looked at in more detail:

- Influence of therapist: Reliability of alternative and regular therapies & therapists ✻
- Role of the mother: the hollow mother type ✻
- Role of the father: the absent/controlling father ✻
- Relationship issues between couple
- Generational trauma ✻
- Mental and emotional delusion
- Power and control issues
- Complexity of family bonds
- Influence of institutions; cultural norms etc.✻
- Personal history and pressure in the mormon church
- Fame: pressure to have a perfect image for youtube and the community they live in
- Punishments to increase views

- Combination of all of the above


RELIABILITY of alternative and regular THERAPIES for children?

How much power and trust should we give to therapists and specialists?

Because it's not the fact that someone has a degree in something that it makes them ethical & mature enough to correctly practice this.
Their theories might sound good at the moment, but people learn every day and 5 or 10 years from now our view and knowledge on a subject might have changed completely.
Unfortunately when parents their focus is on putting as little as possible of their own energy and effort in to the parenting job, they eagerly look to therapists and doctors to rely on for any and all issues that arise. In this way they can always blame the therapist or doctor when the condition of their children get worse.
Sometimes it’s a very good & necessary thing to get extra help from doctors and therapists, etc. but not when it is to escape one’s own responsibilities as a parent.

The best therapy today might turn out to be the worst in the future.

There also seems to be a therapeutic stance about the necessity of the parenting style being superior to the needs of the child. I think this is in the long run destructive for every child. (because each child is different and it does not work on children that get seriously ill, like cancer or that need special care or attention etc.)

For example:

This one way thinking results in that when a child has a specific condition ( like cancer) the parents are frustrated that they can not always keep up the same parenting story. Blaming the child for being such a burden because it needs different care and costing them more money due to needing therapy. In essence everything that does not go according to how they learned; planned and expect things to go in life is the child’s fault. Making the child feel responsible for each and every problem there is in the family …

Video niece:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=mPokNa_KZXY

Yet, to me it seems like the abusive tactics where going on in that family even before Ruby Franke met Jodi. So to trying to blame the therapist for everything seems like a far stretch.


GENERATIONAL ABUSE

Probably some of those behaviors were also passed on from one generation to the other.
According to this family member the over restrictive parenting methods that included tying up their children were generational.
A relative speaks up in the following video:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=LBzCjlaAQgE

Anyway the more extreme (strict/loose) the cultural norms or religion, the more chance the strict/absent rules and believes escalate in to family drama’s.


The ROLE of the MOTHER and FATHER and INSTITUTIONS like the church. 


The HOLLOW MOTHER type

Watch from 8min 22 sec:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZTo18wamt6M

When I saw the video in which for them it seems normal to associate ordening stuffed animals in bed or listening to pop music as sexual behavior. I understood that they mistake normal cathexis (of the child putting emotional energy in the stuffed animals) and joy for sexual behavior.

In my life I already saw the same type of behavior in some other

people who’ve not been allowed to love and care for the things that are really important to them, hence they see it as a threat when someone else connects to feelings of love and happiness.

Example:

When the mother herself grew up under a lot of pressure, not being allowed to live the life she wants (relationship wise, career wise, …). She automatically disconnects from her own feelings (and intuition). Thus the act of being a mother becomes performative towards her husband, the children etc. Yet, to the outside world this looks like the perfect family picture. But should one be the child of such a mother one feels the complete void in the relationship. Over time these dynamics do become visible to the outside world as well in the form of the mother discarding the child or being very aggressive against her own children.
This is because the deep rooted trauma & frustration of never being able to live their life their own way needs to go somewhere.
But by the time these dynamics become visible to the outside world it’s mostly already too late to change anything.

This type of mother I would call the hollow mother. Referring to the outside being the picture of a good mother, but the inner feelings of a mother are not there.

In addition hollow mothers are also a very confusing thing for the social services & rest of the outside world to understand, because they are mostly blinded by the hollow mother’s perfect picture appearance.


The ABSENT FATHER

And when you have a hollow mother mostly there’s in some way a missing father figure … one that actually only cares for the picture of the family to look good but does not care what else is fundamentally going on. Because family life to him is of much less importance than himself, his career, reputation, social life, etc.
It’s this type of father figure that keeps the hollow mother out of sync with her own feelings as long as it is convenient for his own life. This type of father is aiding and strengthening the hollow mother dynamics without being aware of it. 
It’s also the father that normalizes all aberrant behavior of the mother to the children, because he knows he’s partially responsible, and as such he keeps up the dysfunctionality of the family like a pro.

Yet, the father thinks he’s doing the best for the family by pushing everyone to live according to his own idea of harmony, which essentially are the breeding ground to end up with a hollow mother and dysfunctional family.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=H2UoUAWxYCA

FATHER-SON issues

Behavioral/psychological issues of the father are often passed on to the son in one way or another.
Many men unfortunately have memories of overtly or covertly aggressive fathers.
In essence these fathers their aggression mostly came about at times that the son did not live up to the expectations of the father in one way or another. That hurts the ego of the father, who thus reacts out his frustration on to his son.
This results in the son’s confidence getting shattered. To compensate this type of emotional and/or physical injuries, those sons grow up with a false facade of (over)confidence or without any confidence at all.
The lack of real confidence and self worth can in turn recreate the cycle of expectations and shame in the son when he starts his own family.

And so the cycle can repeat itself.


I hope from above analysis we can deduct that both parents (both men and women) have a role in creating a dysfunctional family dynamic. And the reason that they’re in that role is also because of influence of society, their past etc.


Influence of INSTITUTIONS - CULTURAL norms etc.

Child abuse is a world wide problem and happens amongst all types of people from all religions and in all cultures and all different political believes and social status. Sure some believes and cultures might aid in creating more stressful family lives, but that does not mean they are the sole cause of these problems and family dynamics.
So how much do cultural and religious beliefs pressure parents to meet certain ideas of what an ideal family should look like?


Could some of these beliefs also be contributing to creating more dysfunction in families? 


- RESPECT & appearances: In some culture respect is the highest good, but instead of striving for all people to act with wisdom and respect towards each other they’re only interested in everyone having an immaculate public appearance. This results in over disciplining the children and power abuse.

- Social pressure to have a family : In some cultures there’s loads of pressure for the women to get as much children as possible & as early as possible, yet the women may not really be capable of handling motherhood the household etc.

- Son PREFERENCE: In some cultures it’s only desired to get baby boys.
Thus if the mother is incapable of bearing sons she’s looked down upon. 
Any baby girl that’s born is emotionally neglected by the father, who’s confronted with his failure of not having a son every time he looks at the baby girl.

- Gender roles in family life:
Mother role: Although the perfect picture of a good stay at home mom might melt our hearts, and might seem the best thing for the children. Pressuring women in to this role might do more harm than good for the women & the children. Just like letting the pressure cooker sit on top of the stove for too long, those family structures are always on the brink of explosion. 

- Role of money: Money is definitively no guarantee to healthy family dynamics. On the contrary the money just becomes an extra tool for coercing your partner/child in false narratives (disinherting children ..)

- Justice system & social services: I think it’s super strange that although there’s tons of info on the patterns of dysfunctional families and how they are organized that these systems keep implementing the same inadequate techniques to deal with these issues, resulting in things escalating completely. 

- Appearances: Honesty & prejudice: Who should we believe:
At the core of this issue is not only the whole dysfunctional family dynamics, but also who we tend to believe and trust. For most people and social services tend to believe people that are older good looking and rich. Yet, none of these traits iare an indication of someone telling the truth or not. Unfortunately this bias is well known, hence most abusive families use these prejudices to their advantage to fool their surroundings.


I probably still missed to shine a light on some other important factors that can contribute to the escalation of family issues. If you know more about why these things are still happening around the world; do comment.
The ideal family does not exist. But there’s certainly room for improving this foundational structure on which society is built.



COPMLEXITY of subject: 

Family problems are a complex subject because they are linked to so many factors: 

- Personal beliefs 
- The relationship issues between 2 people (responsible for the children) (who earns the - money in relationship etc.)
- Personal/generational trauma’s 
- Other people’s prejudices (making them act and think in accordance with their own issues)
- Society’s expectations
- Failure and flaws in our current justice and social system 
- Correct use of power control and knowledge freedom individuality and right to privacy and space for personal development
- Differences in: personality; character; temper, intellect, talent, soul's expression & purpose ...


...

[shaberon]

Posted by All is one (here)
Unfortunately no one seems to really want to examine this part of society and where it goes wrong.

Well, I was thinking of bringing up something like this.

I don't come from any healthy "nuclear family" background; I had those kind of parents who transferred their inadequacies to authorities and experts. The state hates me.

I have known, I think, one person who had a somewhat ideal "normal family" background.

Otherwise, all my experience is with those from some kind of broken home.

We understand about "ranking" ourselves, i. e. the socio-psychological problems of someone like me are not considered as serious as someone who was physically abused, thrown in the streets, etc., and from what I have seen, at least those are of a lesser number.

But it leaves us never able to say that "the family" is normal or desirable etc., since to our knowledge it simply does not exist.

So, most of the "normies" are called "breeders", which means all you do is conform to rules and reproduce young that, theoretically, keep it going. I have never bred. So, many of us are not in a position to say anything about child raising, either. We simply don't do it, which would, of course, lead to extinction.

When I have reviewed "marriage", for example, what is this? A type of property contract.

In recent years, it was decided that a woman is not "property", but this has not affected the nature of the contract.

Children, of course, are "property"...you don't really have rights, and are someone else's responsibility.

Someone who has a degree in psychology or social work should just keep quiet and not affect anything.

The job of "fixing" would go to those with the wisdom and experience of those who have really done it, who are not that many, but may be in a few uncorrupted halfway houses or something like that.

In Yunnanese culture, there never has been such a thing as a father or marriage. I am not aware of a problem with this.

Here, since there is nothing worth passing down from the previous generation, I think we should just stop it.

Simply needs to be faced there is no such thing as "western civilization". It is a chain of mute attempts to hide the "shadow", so to speak, and that is about all we have accomplished.

The best I can say is that a person should be raised very differently from a very young age, not injected with vaccines and ordered about by parents who don't know how to do anything except tell you what to do. I am sure there is a better way to train human beings, but, I have no idea how this fits in with any "family" as currently understood.

[Johan (Keyholder)]

Family units ARE indeed important in any society and they always were.

Throughout history, family units were defined in different ways, depending on the place and time.

For instance in the South Pacific, on many islands there, a family unit was a "tribe" or an extended group of related people, some 50 or up to 200 individuals. The type of living arrangements, mores and cultural habits were very different from ours. Things went well though, for some time. Until the British empire came along. Everything went to pieces then, pretty fast (the same happened on other continents and by other nationalities too of course, think Australia (aboriginals), New Zealand (Maoris), USA (Indians) and so forth).

When we look at our Western world, even going back to "old" times like in Greece, lots of youngsters did never get a harmonious and nurturing childhood. Plenty of examples can be given.


Child labor is from all times; think about Daens in Belgium. And what happened over here happened just about everywhere. Many families had children so they could put them to work. In poor countries this is still the case today. In the worst of cases a child is sold, to have enough money to buy food (for the family and the other children). Harmonious and nurturing are/were far cries for these kids.

Child marriages (girls then) have been known in many countries, even today these still exist (India...)

In many countries children survive, and live in gutters in the street (favelas in Rio...)

While pederasty was "quite normal" and socially accepted in ancient Greece and ancient Rome (so were their ways then), in the Western countries today, it is (of course) unacceptable. Yet, if you have followed "Godvergeten" (actual documentary on Flemish TV, about child abuse in church), it is very clear that in Belgium (but also in France, Germany, the USA and many other countries) paedophiles were (and still are no doubt) active. And remain unpunished. The Vatican is "immune" (because it is a country) and there are no courts in the Vatican...

And in Ireland the cases of the unmarried pregnant girls that were put in convents (and often died, as well as their babies) are well known.This all happened the previous century, even just 30 years ago.
(Report Gives Glimpse Into Horrors of Ireland’s Mother and Baby Homes -
A government commission found high death rates, unethical vaccine trials and traumatic living conditions at 18 homes that housed unwed mothers up until the 1990s).

We could go on and on giving more examples. So when you state that "Still there are a lot of people who do not get to live a harmonious nurturing childhood." I would rather say that today this is rather the exception (sadly). I would think that people in the West, born between 1950 and 1980, had the best chance to get lucky, family-wise. But there were still many then too that were not so fortunate.

This part of society is most often shunned, disregarded. Nobody likes to talk about it, yet it is omnipresent. I have been a substitute teacher ("interimaris") for 15-18 year olds for a few years and what I saw there, was appalling. Youngsters got abused at home (with as a result self-mutilation, depressions, etc). Pestered in the classroom. Some teachers were "enjoying" the power they had (manipulating kids). If a kid was lucky, s/he could get some help from a caring teacher, but few were like that (afraid to "harm their careers" no doubt).

Pathological narcissism is on the rise, we all know that now (in the mid-seventies, that was still less obvious). And so many kids suffer from a dysfunctional family unit (a narcissistic parent or even two, borderline parents, etc). One can hardly expect a "nurturung and harmonious" life that way. In school and "online" it just is often the same. Cyberpesting and physical abuse in school...it's all around. Yes, it's an epidemic (there is a good book by Jean Twenge called "The narcissism epidemic").

Not enough parents are willing to put the necessary efforts in raising their children in a way that creates a safe haven (some do of course, but I think it's a minority). Careers, a house/car/vacations, peer pressure, social media...so much "stuff" wants their attention.

Most people deny their own shadow side. We are living in a world of "lemmings" really. Few exceptions are around and it takes a lot of courage to walk one's own personal Path.

How can we expect kids to do this when the parents refuse to do that?

Societal services SHOULD intervene, but they rarely do. It is no surprise that the worst narcissists/sociopaths/psychopaths can be found where "the narcissitic supply" is to be found: places where "they" can prey on potential "victims": in schools, churches, hospitals, the army, big corporations and there where control-functions (of any kind) exist. It is not a pretty picture indeed.

More later. But a useful thread, for sure.

[Vicus]

[All is one]

We are all linked to our children & to the next generation; to what we pass on to the next generation.

It’s this dynamic which decides where the waves of evolution will take us.

Everybody takes on the shadow side of their family (as well as all the good lessons). This is not a symptom exclusive to dysfunctional family patterns.

In essence the vices in human nature are passed on from one generation to the next. This is true for every family system (not only those that are visibly dysfunctional). 

This means that if we want a better humanity and a better world we need to find ways to dissolve our vices before passing them on. (As well we really need a better structure for current social and justice services.)


Parenting styles and tactics: is there a right way?

I noticed that a lot of what Ruby and Jodi were advising on how to parent your children are things that have been thought to some degree in many places.

So what we’re focussing on right now is not only how things could have escalated in the way they did. We’re also questioning what kind of parenting techniques are still deemed healthy and normal in this day and age.

So what do we want to pass on? What should one teach ones child?

●Obviously having a too rigid, controlling and strict parenting style does not have an overall positive effect and can escalate in to serious problems. 
●But spoiled children have as much chance at becoming problematic adults. 

So I would conclude that whether a parenting style is the right one more so depends on how much: 

- parents are truly in touch with their own feelings and intuition 
- parents are able to deal with all other struggle in human relationships***, since they are at the core of the attitude parents/caretakers take on towards children.
- parents have worked on their own childhood; relationship*** work life balance issues etc. 

See thread Relationships Unraveled:https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1580455

I think those are more determining factors for creating a balanced parenting style, Rather than one parenting style being superior to another.  

What do you guys think? 


Influence of relationship & personality issues (Ruby & Kevin)

When one parent is abusive to the children the other parent mostly also is abusive or supports the abuse in some way. 
- Why? Because they had their relationship dynamics before the children were born. And they put their relationship above the well being of their children. 
- Why? Because they’re in one or another way codependent on each other in life ( be it emotionally, materially, for household, convenience, …) 

Hence their own lack of independence and freedom (as well as oneness consciousness) in the relationship automatically creates a closed family system. If anything within this closed system start going wrong it has more chance to fester or escalate. 

Hence I also think independence of each person as well as community/oneness spirit is key for humanity to evolve in to something better.

See thread: Freedom on this planet: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1550070

Many relationships are not a voluntarily closed unit, but a closed unit because of codependent dynamics. 

The fact that Kevin Franke wanted to press charges against his daughter for entering the family house to look for stuff for the children etc. shows that the dysfunctional family dynamic goes way deeper than the visible dramatic situation created by Ruby and Jodi.

Video: Kevin Franke wants to charge daughter Shari with burglary for entering the family home to retrieve necessary items for siblings:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=BjO5WcgLimE

A lot is going on in the world. Change is a given at any moment in time. It does not matter what theories anyone believes or doubts children deserve circumstances that promote healthy physical and emotional development. But to make sure this can be the case for all children I think we all need to work on making our system more optimal. 

Ideally the system should be organized so that severe escalation of family, relationship, work school etc. problems can be prevented. This so that further serious damage is prevented and after care services are not needed as much.

[All is one]

Why child abuse keeps existing


1)Holes in the system CONDONING child ABUSE 

Innocent until proven guilty, is a good legal principle. 

Though it is the opposite to what many religions preach that "we're all sinners" or “all people are born in sin" 

In my opinion both statements can, when taken to the extreme, be damaging to human relationship patterns.

Making it either possible for perpetrators of abuse to keep running freely or for innocent children to be beaten/abused to cast the sin out of them … 

I think “Innocent until proven guilty” is a noble principle to uphold. 
But I think in our current system this principle just does not have the noble effect it should have. 
There is a total lack of possibility to easily report any type of injustice and abuse inflicted by anyone in a more powerful position (parents, bosses, …) and have it registered in a useful legal way.  

One also deals with the difficulty for children to document any prolonged abusive patterns.

 If one wants above principle to work one needs to make sure to make the reporting of any issue becomes more easy and effective, also for minors. 

This so that this principle can not be used to the extend that perpetrators of abuse or other crimes can keep up their ways without limitations. 


2)Human cognitive bias 

The first stumbling block towards a more effective social services system is the human cognitive bias.

In this case the police already visited the house of Ruby Franke 15 times. Yet, they were fooled by their own biases and nothing was done to stop the issues from escalating. 

(Keep in mind that most children in abusive families are not capable of reporting the issues to any official service and have no people alerting the services for them.)

In this case those services were alerted 15 times. Surely one can decide that even when services are alerted, they are not capable of taking any correct action. And this is not of lack of money or capacity. It’s because of cognitive biases present in every human. 

Which only goes to show how strongly blinding human cognitive biases can work. 

(During at least five of those visits, officers were assisting the Utah Division of Child and Family Services. One call was to investigate reports of young children being left alone for days at a time. Another was after a DCFS caseworker told police about unsupervised kids running around in the street.https://www.deseret.com/utah/2023/9/...investigation-

This also means that no matter how many people claimed/ reported things were going wrong, the abuse was still able to continue. 

In other cases where victims do speak up they get downplayed or mocked till the issues are internalized and silenced and till they become so grave that people need to revise their own biases and prejudgements. Unfortunately by then all help is too late & the perpetrators are still able to run free and damage more people. 

See interview of the niece of Jodi Hildebrandt explaining on Good Morning America that she went through similar abuse by Jodi 14 years ago, and that people knew, but did nothing:

VIDEO watch from 1:28 minutes:
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/niece-jodi...N-quBa_7J2C7EBhttps://www.yahoo.com/gma/niece-jodi...N-quBa_7J2C7EB

It's typical for abusers to make more than one victim ...


3)Evidence gap in child abuse cases


Evidence is the only thing taken seriously by the court, but when people know they are doing things wrong they mostly make sure there’s no evidence left.

So what could close the gap in this justice and social system is an early report and support system, so to prevent years of abuse/ conflict etc. And to prevent situations from escalating in more drama and disaster.

It’s not easy to find out who did what wrong for sure after 10 years or longer. But with an early reporting system we wouldn’t need to research how things are going wrong, for those issues would be reported from the beginning. 

All the child abuse, all the problems in the working environments, the me too movements things etc, could be dealt with from the start. Making them less complex and easier to solve. 

It’s right to presume innocence until proven guilty, but the system is just way too slow and chaotic to effectively handle any dangerous or criminal situation so that it does not become a worse case than it should. An early official reporting system could make our system more effective, faster …

Anyway I think it would also bring more order to the whole system and make it accessible for anyone. Also if we can not create a transparent easy reporting and supportive system for abuse etc. how would any child be capable of knowing what best to do in such a situation.

It might be very fancy that our society has a lot of specialists and social services at hand. If we can not design a system that is capable of preventing the escalation of these type of situations one can not really call it a functional system. 

(I kind of start to feel ashamed calling myself a grown up and being part of a system that can not solve these type of frequently occuring problems.)


REAL SOLUTIONS?

1)Justice and balance:

Starting with an official report and record system of any and all issues (paypal model type, but non-profit or power hungry based). 

Marking severity urgency and type of actions and follow up and care needed. 

Restructure & replace our social services etc. in this type of system.

First steps of accessing this system, I think, would better be AI based to avoid human biases. 

After some steps one should directly be connected to the correct social service/ justice department …

The advantages of such a system would be that the reportings are official without giving them direct legal effects. Instead such a system can be more directed at trying to provide the correct support before escalating it to heavy legal battles. 

Such a system respects free will, boundaries, and unique expression and needs of individual. It’s not over intrusive, ethical, respects integrity and it’s possible to make current system compatible with those changes. 

If we ourselves can not structure and equip our social services to work the way they need to, how can any child, victim, person that falls ill, …, know what steps to take. 

This restructuring of our system would definitively make the system easier and more accessible for everyone.

Was already trying to explain such a system in this thread, but am aware it still needs a lot more fine-tuning: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1492918


2)The role of community/social cohesion and care


Right now our whole system is focussed on after care. But actually we better focus the attention and energy of the system more in the direction of trying to prevent things from getting out of hand.

For example:
- western health care is mostly focussed on treating patients that are already ill:
instead of keeping people healthy by use of diet changes ⟨nutrigenomics⟩, herbs and nutrimedicals, ...
- psychologist are mostly used to help people who are depressed about their life being in some kind of ruins: instead of having a culture (see for example thread:https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1572654) of positive overall vision on life, teaching healthy relationship patterns etc.
- when relationships get too aggressive and dangerous services will wait till you are really severe enough beaten or r-worded till they come to help you: an early report system could definitively help in those situations
- …