Should Christians support Israeli military action?

[Ravenlocke]

I’ve been asking the question myself, why Christians not Catholics support Israel. It’s been going on long before the current conflict. I’ve noticed tv Christian commercials for the poor Jews, church banners, etc., prayers, etc Apparently evangelical christians support Israel because of the end times prophecy among other reasons. The following article sheds some light on this logic.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rael-hamas-war

‘This war is prophetically significant’: why US evangelical Christians support Israel
One strand of evangelical theology holds that the return of Jews to the region starts the clock ticking on a seven-year armageddon, after which Jesus Christ will return

‘What will come soon [is] the anti-Christ and his seven year empire that will be destroyed in the battle of armageddon. Then Jesus Christ will set up his throne in the city of Jerusalem. He will establish a kingdom that will never end.’

It didn’t take long for many evangelical Christian groups in America to show their support for Israel.

Hours after Hamas attacked the country on 7 October, killing more than 1,400 people, Christians United for Israel, an evangelical lobbying group which claims to have more than 10 million members, posted a message to on X, formerly known as Twitter.

“To the terrorists who have chosen this fight, hear this, what you do to Israel, god will do to you. Despite today’s weeping, joy will come because he [god] who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps,” CUFI, whose founder believes the presence of Jews in Israel is a precursor to Jesus Christ returning to Earth, wrote.

Soon an “Evangelical statement in support of Israel” was issued by the ethics and religion liberty commission – an arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, a denomination which has 45,000 churches in the US.

In the statement, 2,000 evangelical leaders – not all were named – said they “fully support Israel’s right and duty to defend itself against further attack”. Little credence was given to the Palestinians who would soon find themselves under attack: more than 8,000 people in Gaza have now been killed by Israeli bombardments, according to Gaza’s health ministry .

“While our theological perspectives on Israel and the Church may vary, we are unified in calling attacks against Jewish people especially troubling as they have been often targeted by their neighbors since God called them as His people in the days of Abraham (Gen. 12:1-3),” the evangelical statement said.

“In keeping with Christian Just War tradition, we also affirm the legitimacy of Israel’s right to respond against those who have initiated these attacks as Romans 13 grants governments the power to bear the sword against those who commit such evil acts against innocent life.”

The more than 90 named signatories – four were women, the rest men – included the current president, and eight former presidents, of the Southern Baptist Convention, among other influential evangelicals.

For people not immersed in evangelicalism – a conservative strand of Christianity which emphasises adherence to the Bible – the overt biblical references may have seemed unusual to hear in a geopolitical context.

Romans 13 – the 13th chapter of the Epistle to the Romans in the New Testament – is essentially a lengthy treatise on the importance of submitting to bureaucracy, which states:

“Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason.”

For those more familiar with the evangelical world, the vehemence of the support has not been a surprise, given the importance to evangelicals of an Israel inhabited by Jewish people. One main strand of evangelical theology holds that the return of Jews to the region starts the clock ticking on a seven-year armageddon, after which Jesus Christ will return.

To that end, the issue of Israel and Palestine has dominated sermons at evangelical churches over the past two Sundays, said Daniel Hummel, a historian of American religion, and the author of Covenant Brothers: Evangelicals, Jews, and US-Israeli Relations.

“The overwhelming theme has been: this war is prophetically significant, but no one is willing to really claim exactly how,” Hummel said.

“And that’s been a long tradition of sort of hedging your bets and getting whatever you can in terms of sort of interest and eyeballs, by declaring that there’s something significant here, but once you start saying specific things and you’re sort of on the hook, it doesn’t turn out that way.”

The rush to respond, and the statements in support of Israel, were not surprising to those aware of the deep feeling evangelicals have for Israel.

Broadly speaking, some evangelicals believe that Jewish people returning to Israel following the 1917 ​​Balfour Declaration, a British statement which called for “the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”, was key to end times, when God will purge sinners and Jesus Christ will return.

John Hagee, an evangelical pastor and influential founder of Christians United for Israel, explained the prophecy to TBN Networks in December 2022.

“God is getting ready to defend Israel in such a supernatural way it’s going to take the breath out of the lungs of the dictators on planet Earth but we are living on the cusp of the greatest most supernatural series of events the world has ever seen ready or not.”

Hagee said when Jewish people are present in Israel “the clock starts ticking” on the rapture.

“What will come soon [is] the antichrist and his seven year empire that will be destroyed in the battle of armageddon. Then Jesus Christ will set up his throne in the city of Jerusalem. He will establish a kingdom that will never end,” Hagee said.

Hagee, despite having a long history of antisemitism – he has suggested Jews brought persecution upon themselves by upsetting God and called Hitler a “half-breed Jew” – founded Christians United for Israel in 2006.

Among other things, the group lobbied for the US embassy in Israel to be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which Donald Trump did in 2018, and is “committed to Israel’s strength, security and sovereignty”.

The support of evangelical Christians – in 2015 the Pew Research Center estimated there were about 62 million in the US – for Israel can be split into different groups, Hummel said.

While there are plenty of evangelicals who, like Hagee, adhere to the Israel-is-key-to-Jesus’-return theology, there are also those who believe in “blessings theology”, a less outlandish, more transactional approach to support for Israel.

The blessings theology is based on a literal reading of the book of Genesis, where God told Abraham – who Hummel described as “the patriarch of the Jewish people” – that he would “bless those who bless you” and “curse those who curse you”.

“For the last couple of centuries this has been interpreted on individual terms. So you can accrue personal blessings by being good to the Jewish people, or by giving money, or touring Israel or things like that,” Hummel said.

That also works on a national level, he said.

“And so the crude way of doing this is a pastor will say something like: ‘Look at the Roman Empire and how they persecuted the Jews and Rome fell. Look at the British Empire and how the British didn’t treat the Jews well, and how they fell. Look at the Nazis and how they persecuted the Jews, and they fell.

“And we, the Americans, don’t want to be the next Empire or the next great power to fall because we didn’t sufficiently bless the Jewish people.’”

There are also those whose support is “more broadly American”, Hummel said: “There’s a deep cultural affinity that’s been built over decades and decades between the US and Israel all across the board.”

Evangelicals make up an influential part of the Republican party base, and have a strong number in Congress. More than 100 members of the current Congress can be broadly identified as evangelical, and that was on display in recent days.

Lee Fang, a journalist, recently asked congressmen and women whether their religion was important to their support for Israel, for the documentary “Praying for Armageddon”.

“This entire matter is based upon the faith of our maker, our creator, but it’s also faith of a chosen people,” Pete Sessions, a Republican congressman from Texas and a Methodist, said.

Fang asked Tim Burchett, a Republican congressman from Tennessee, about evangelical support.

“They’re following the scripture, and what the scripture says about Israel: ‘Those who bless Israel will be blessed,’ they take it literal, and I’m one of those people,” Burchett said.

In terms of the influence evangelicals might wield as the Israel-Hamas conflict continues, Hummel said there had been a “mixed record” on evangelicals’ political sway.

Still, Trump has specifically said he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem “for the evangelicals”, while Hagee served as an adviser to the twice-impeached president.

In the 2020 election, evangelical or born-again Christians made up 28% of the overall electorate, CNN reported, and three-quarters voted for Trump. Given that support for the Republican party, under GOP leadership evangelicals would have plenty of influence.

“When there’s a Republican president they have a seat at the table it doesn’t mean the president’s going to do exactly what they want, but they’re the ones that the president’s listening to more than other interested parties on Israel,” Hummel said.

With a presidential election looming, and with few signs that the Israeli conflict will ebb away any time soon, evangelicals could find themselves in a position of significant power in the near future.

The above article ends here.



As someone else pointed out to me, consider also that Jesus was a Jew, the disciples were Jews, and as God told Abraham in Genesis 12, “He who blesses you, I will bless and he who curses you I will curse.” This is now understood by many Evangelicals to apply to Jews in general and Israel as nation. So many Christians believe that they should treat all Jews well or face God’s curse.

According to the following the International Christian embassy lists ten reasons to support Israel.

https://www.icej.org/understand-isra...upport-israel/

It seems to me the logic is more on the line if you embrace their ideological beliefs, you can get to heaven one day when you die.

To me death and killing is not the answer but it’s the religion of evil, corrupt governments.

[arwen]

Oooooh, I was going to stay away from this one......but I can't.

Since October this year (2023), my question has been similar - "WHY do Christians, without question, support Israel?"

It led me down a very deep rabbit hole.

In summary without references (in a hurry) - I found out the Old Testament references to Israel were to a people, not a country. Israel did not exist as a country. It was named Israel by those who carved it into Palestine/Judea in 1948.

So why do so many Christians not know this? I know many Christians, otherwise good and decent people, and it seems their blind loyalty to Israel is because of the references to Israel in the Old Testament, and the reference to them as "Gods chosen people".

Apologies, this is quite a sloppy post, should be better referenced.

One of the factors influencing this I found, was the Scofield Bible in America: The Scofield Bible—The Book That Made Zionists of America’s Evangelical Christians

There is a ton of information on all this. And yes, a RADICAL difference between the "God" of the Old Testament who is vengeful, jealous, spiteful, bloodthirsty and really really does not fit the concept of a creator of Love. Whereas Jesus in the New Testament taught Love, forgiveness, compassion.

My thought was - if "God" really was such a horrible entity, and he/it created us, then where does Love come from? Because Love is definitely NOT part of that angry "God". And Love exists everywhere, so it must have come from somewhere else other than that "God".

I do not consider myself a Christian, but I have strong resonance with the early Gnostics and the Cathars (NOT the Knights Templar). So I do not feel qualified to answer Bill's question but I can say that if I was a Christian, I would not be able to support Israel's military action because it is the polar opposite of what Jesus represented.

Before Jesus, there was no Christianity. There was that Old Testament/Torah/Talmud time. Christianity was allegedly founded AFTER Jesus. So if one is a Christian, one would defer to the gospel of Jesus, rather than what is in the Old Testament. As I see it. And thus could not support this bloodshed, massacre, genocide.

And the other data source that helped me understand better the eschatology of all this, as I am very obviously NOT a bible scholar, was this video: (1 hour)


Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/v3n5s5m

[Sue (Ayt)]

A way to view these things may be simple - Righteous anger seeks restoration, but unrighteous anger seeks destruction.

It is only natural to feel anger at your tormentors, but large-scale projections seem to inevitably lead to massive destruction.

I do believe that more folks are availing their personal discernment and distinguishing the difference now, but that trend must terrify the propagandist/infiltrators/manipulators who actively seek power through destruction, so they have upped their antics. But the realization that most all of our organizations have been infiltrated is slowly dawning on people. (including religious organizations.)

[Eric J (Viking)]

Absolutely not….

I was raised a Roman catholic (whatever that’s means) and have supported the Christ faith. I have learned more about religious beliefs within the Phoenix Journels than anywhere. I cannot find sufficient words that would describe my feelings towards the establishment running the Israel show. Religions create devide amongst us humans. It’s at this junction I am ashamed to be part of the human race. They must bow their heads with complete disgust with what has been going on here. (Israel)

Eric J

[Ernie Nemeth]

I don't bother with semantics. Now I see why there has been this divide amongst the members. The horror of the atrocities has inflamed the entire world. We are no different.

I believe we are in great danger right now of loosing our way of life. Christianity guided the rise of the west. Yet now we see pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian protests in our streets.

If we allow and condone these protests on our streets it will not be long before the militants resort to the same tactics that Hamas uses. "Convert or we burn down your cities while hiding behind your own brainwashed mobs of misguided but concerned citizens". Hamas and the Islamic world now know, if they didn't already, that the west can be played. They can be bluffed into capitulation by dirty tactics that have no honor.

All wars have atrocities attached to them. The Hamas aggression is no different. In fact, if it is different it is because they have trained almost the entire nation as terrorists.

History holds no precedent and cannot be used to argue for anything at all. The land is owned by those that are there today. This is true around the world. No city, state, or nation can claim their hands free of the blood of innocents. History is written by the victor. Just as destructive acts destroy, constructive acts also destroy, all the while the opposite is equally true. The destructive/constructive divide can only be subjective.

If there is to be peace, there must be agreement. Otherwise the peace is just a pause in hostilities.

I don't support or condone Israeli military action.
I do support the notion that a country has the right to defend itself from aggression, especially if to remain neutral might result in annihilation. That last can be applied to either side.

What options are there? War or Peace. Death or Life.

That's why I advocate for World Peace. I have even created a thread with that exact title.

I don't believe in death.
I do believe we live larger lives than we currently understand; I don't think I understand this life at all...

[Isserley]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I received a well-written and most intelligent message..

I can only say that at first glance this thread title doesn't seem intelligent at all. So I can only imagine what this guy wrote to support this logic.

Should Quakers, Hinduists, Protestants, atheists, ... support it?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Isserley (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
I received a well-written and most intelligent message..

I can only say that at first glance this thread title doesn't seem intelligent at all. So I can only imagine what this guy wrote to support this logic.

Something can be well-written, and intelligently presented, and still lack moral or ethical awareness. We see this from state media and politicians all the time.

Intelligent people can justify any view or belief that they have. (And the more intelligent they are, the harder it often is for them to challenge their own worldviews. We have an Avalon thread all about this.)

~~~

What I wrote above is tough, and I apologize should that be necessary. But I've just been listening to Max Blumenthal telling Judge Napolitano about some of the events in Gaza which are well-documented now but almost completely unreported in the western media. Some were unknown to me.

At one point I had to stop the video. I just stared out of the window for a while before I could continue.

What the Israelis are doing is evil. Period. No moral person can support it.

I read a comment on The Moon of Alabama observing that in the Biblical Old Testament, YWVH (Jehovah) was responsible for several genocides.

Meanwhile, Satan was responsible for none. Go think about it.

[pabranno]

How extraordinary is this community when such things can be discussed and shared intelligently and so heartfelt!
I appreciate all those who research, reason and search hearts to find method in the madness.
I’m grateful for the incredible posts here, and feel a kinship with you all in our shared pain and anger for this world we find ourselves.

I posted earlier an awkward post in which I expressed myself poorly.

For the record, and to be much clearer, I do not view these events through a geopolitical lens. Neither Israel or Hamas. I in no way support war for either.

I view this heartbreaking tragedy as a spatial, temporal expression of something higher going on. I use the word spiritual but can just as easily use higher dimension. Or any other term. Hence, my earlier use of the word ordained. Unavoidable. By who or what or why I do not understand. But Ive seen a slow train coming.

Also for the record, I am a Christian. I am a thinking, reasoning Christian with a probing mind and heart. We all must use care when painting people of certain beliefs with a wide brush.

I’ve had intense struggles with much of what many posted here. I’m no idiot. I do study. I do angst.
I am particularly accomplished at angst😉

Thank you all for this place where I can share at such a level, and more importantly for the reasonings you present which sharpen me ‘as iron sharpens iron’

Sincerely,
Pamela

[shaberon]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Marcion (85—160 AD) was the first scholar to point out that the angry, vengeful, ruthless, punishing God of the Old Testament (Jehovah) and the loving God of the New Testament seemed to be two entirely different beings — with entirely different teachings and value systems.

That was Paul.

Paul never actually heard of Jesus.


After Marcion, yes, there was some kind of shuffle, including a faction that had to bring in a Torah-dependent version.


A century or so later, it is hard to blame anyone for not knowing the real history. They were given a bunch of stories and ideas and came up with something.


This is Christianity:




which I am not sure anyone knows anything about it.


The Byzantine Empire was a sort of non-denominational Heaven on Earth. They didn't take it so literally as "I am the Messiah" but more like "I am doing the best job I can". No forced conversions and no refusal of aid towards Jews, pagans, or whoever.

Christianity would therefor follow Catherine the Great's plan to restore Constantinople to Greece. But that got deleted.

It cannot support Israel at all, since the country is founded on crime.

Yes, the Yhwh is the Demiurge, is a new aberration flung in the face of El, by Elijah particularly, followed by the assassination of the Israeli king and new subservient dynasty. Note the new king shown as giving tribute to Shalmaneser III on the Black Obelisk of Assyria. It appears he surrendered without a fight. Shalmaneser III led about thirty conquests and destroyed all resistance. Shortly thereafter, Assyria destroyed Israel as well. Most of the Torah was created long after this.


Both "Testaments" are hatchet jobs.

[shaberon]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
I’ve been asking the question myself, why Christians not Catholics support Israel.

Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy are both Nicene, which means they share the view that Jews are basically damned for rejecting the Savior.

Zionism comes from the ca. 1580s and propagates through the English Bible. This means any English Bible, to which the Scofield Concordance is like a finishing touch. Actually, it is the very conflicts in Ukraine and Israel that have compelled me to add piles of details to this basic truth.

What is being called a "Christian religion" was invented by a few people in the 1600s using hardcore Jewish apologetics.

Nothing about Zionism is Jewish in origin.

It's English and is part and parcel of Germany and Russia being the enemies "Gog and Magog", which is not actually even a pair of names. There may have been a Gog "of/from" Magog, and, if so, it referred to the near future and the area immediately north of Galilee.

Does anyone honestly believe that before electricity, people would sit around with a white knuckle grip over a theology that was supposed to occur in thousands of years to people they had never heard of???

You might be interested in a "Messiah" in your personal future, or, perhaps for your children, but I can't imagine anyone naive enough to be suckered by something much more distant.

For clarity, one could say the general in Niger is a Tyrant (came to power by illegitimate means) and a Messiah (got rid of the French).

I will always protect the small and weak from some larger aggressive force. That's not usually "taking sides", but to say that the residents of Gaza, Donbass, etc., should not be getting obliterated by some US-backed military. I can only say these things, since I am not in a position to shoot IOF. Can't get a ride. I'm sure "we" would bail out Gaza in a matter of hours if "we" could get there.

The opposite of the thread's proposition is more enticing:


Why should Jews oppose Zion?


Plenty of them believe that g-d is love and that people like Netanyahu are wrong. Except this must be a very small number of people, outvoiced by what I am sure must be 30-50 million ardent Zionists who are not that far from me.

[Bruce G Charlton]

I rather jumped in to answer this question "no" - which I think is correct; but without some context it isn't terribly informative.

For "no" to have much meaning, we would need to know what kind of situation there might be where it could be said that a Christian should positively-support a particular side in a conflict.

I would say that this situation (i.e. where a Christian ought to support one side) arises when we judge that one of the sides is primarily motivated by Christian ideals.

Motivations are not something that can be read-off from "objective facts" (as if such things existed independently of the the fundamental assumptions that enable their interpretation) - but motivations must be inferred. This sounds rather mushy and subjective; yet everything hinges upon them - and being a Christian has (I would suggest) the inbuilt assumption that there really are motivations, and we really can infer them (with help and guidance from the Holy Ghost) in those situation where doing so is spiritually significant to us personally.

Luckily for this explanation, there is a clear example of a situation in which I believe a Christian should support one of the sides; and that is the ongoing war between Russia and NATO that is being-fought mostly in Ukraine. Here we have one side that I believe (i.e. I infer) is primarily fighting for and from Christian motivations; and (to make this choice easier!) the other side is primarily motivated by anti-Christian ideals.

It can be seen that this matter is not susceptible of anything resembling "proof" - but for anyone who really give the matter spiritual attention (and who is not, for instance, self-blinded by sins such as fear or resentment) I would say that the "Ukr" War is as clear as example as is ever likely of a war where Christians ought to take one of the sides; and the only valid* reason why this may not happen is that the information and events are (for most Christians) geographically remote, and only indirectly known.

*I'm assuming, here, that the fact Christians find themselves living on the wrong side of the war, is not a valid reason for failing to support the right side - even though, in practice, such support will not be practical but in the heart! After all; in the heart is what matters, ultimately - since we can be coerced and compelled physically; but not in the depth of our divine selves.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Bruce G Charlton (here)
I rather jumped in to answer this question "no" - which I think is correct; but without some context it isn't terribly informative.

For "no" to have much meaning, we would need to know what kind of situation there might be where it could be said that a Christian should positively-support a particular side in a conflict.

I would say that this situation (i.e. where a Christian ought to support one side) arises when we judge that one of the sides is primarily motivated by Christian ideals.

Motivations are not something that can be read-off from "objective facts" (as if such things existed independently of the the fundamental assumptions that enable their interpretation) - but motivations must be inferred. This sounds rather mushy and subjective; yet everything hinges upon them - and being a Christian has (I would suggest) the inbuilt assumption that there really are motivations, and we really can infer them (with help and guidance from the Holy Ghost) in those situation where doing so is spiritually significant to us personally.

Luckily for this explanation, there is a clear example of a situation in which I believe a Christian should support one of the sides; and that is the ongoing war between Russia and NATO that is being-fought mostly in Ukraine. Here we have one side that I believe (i.e. I infer) is primarily fighting for and from Christian motivations; and (to make this choice easier!) the other side is primarily motivated by anti-Christian ideals.

It can be seen that this matter is not susceptible of anything resembling "proof" - but for anyone who really give the matter spiritual attention (and who is not, for instance, self-blinded by sins such as fear or resentment) I would say that the "Ukr" War is as clear as example as is ever likely of a war where Christians ought to take one of the sides; and the only valid reason why this may not happen is that the information and events are (for most Christians) geographically remote, and only indirectly known.

Bruce, that's perfectly put. I entirely agree.

What you didn't say was whether Israel's campaign was also motivated by Christian values. It seems to me self-evident that it's not — but I'm certain this is your view as well.

[Rizotto]

Yes, I've tried to discuss this issue with some christians who are totally set on supporting Isreal no matter what. They're absolutely convinced that the Bible is the word of God, not to be questioned. They get quite upset at the mention that biblical scholars themselves have on-going debates about translations, interpretations and which chapters should or should not be included in the 'bible', in other words the authenticity of much of the bible is in question. I've seen what these christians do in their bible study groups, or on their own bible studies. Reading these verses sends them into a state of hypnosis and they loose their sense of critical thinking.

Many of these christians have a deep islamophobia. Of course that doesn't come from the bible. From what I can gather, this deep-seated islamophobia is a rather recent phenomenon, less than a hundred year old, and my guess is that it has been instigated by the same old geopolitical bullies that use the 'divide and conquer' tactics to gain control over the world biggest oil reserves, which happen to be in muslim countries for the most part.

There is one aspect of the current Israeli genocide of Palestinians that I don't hear discussed by these christians. And that is the fact that many Palestinians are christians, some are practicing judaism, and their churches and synagogues have been bombed by Isrealis, as much as the mosques. And that many Palestinians are likely descendants of the Jews that remained on the land after the diaspora of the Jews ruling elite in the year 70.

None of this makes sense. I'm bewildered, horrified, and deeply saddened that anyone would try to justify this slaughter.

[Bruce G Charlton]

Thanks Bill.

"What you didn't say was whether Israel's campaign was also motivated by Christian values. It seems to me self-evident that it's not — but I'm certain this is your view as well."

Yes, it did seem self-evident! more exactly, my understanding is that Israel's motivations are some combination of mainstream Western secular globalist totalitarianism (Israel has so far always been explicitly a secular state, especially in its early decades: i.e. based on a race not a religion); with the not-Christian ideals of Judaism (especially the ultra-Orthodox); plus that type of secular-left race-based nationalism called Zionism. Whatever the combination that is most dominant at present - these are none of them core Christian values; and many are explicitly anti-Christian.

But that does not mean that Christians (qua Christians) ought to support the geopolitical aims of the Palestinians either!

In a sense this dispute is also about the transition from the US-unipolar world order to the multipolar world order. But the Christian preference for multipolarity is - I think - mainly because it includes Russia as a sovereign Christian state, and that a multipolar world is more likely to have at least some space and tolerance for the practice of Christianity; whereas the globalist totalitarian mind-control project has demonstrated clearly that it actively intends to eradicate all possibility of Christian thinking, as well as practice.

[Sérénité]

I come from Roman Catholic, C of E, Protestant and Jewish heritage. Yet align with none of them. The concept of religion is lost on me for the very reason that it divides and segregates people from every “faith” and makes us forgot the most important thing in the world…we are all one and should love each other unconditionally.

I have heard numerous accounts of how religion has torn my own family apart going back, not only recently but back to the War of the Roses and the troubles it has caused. None of it makes any sense to me. Other than these systems where out into place to do exactly as they are still today, in Isreal and Palestine.

Anyone supporting any military action, more so based on their allegiance to a different ‘god’ hurts my brain as much as my heart. Until the world stops allowing dogmatic controls and power hungry megalomaniacs to pit us against each other, we will never know true peace and love.

[ExomatrixTV]

Should True Followers of Jesus and all what He really stands for support any form of Genocide? ... "No Matter What?"

(being sarcastic and rhetorical here).

cheers,
John 🦜🦋🌳

[Kryztian]

For me, the most important passage in the Bible that explains what it means to be a Christian is this:

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. —John 13:33–35

These words were spoken by Jesus at the Last Supper, the evening before he was crucified. This New Commandment is more important and central to Christian faith than the ten commandments given to Moses.

To put these words into action, I think you can translate this phrase into even more concise language and ask "What would Jesus do". In the case of Israel military action, I would ask "Would Jesus arrive in another land and attempt to take the land from the peoples who lived there for thousands of years? Would Jesus have imported guns and weapons and used them on these people and murdered some of them them and terrorized all of them so that they motivated to leave? Would Jesus have created a legal system that would deprive these people of their rights, but give these rights to other people?" and so on.

I think if you read the Gospels and understand who Jesus is, you know the answers to these questions.

When I hear of "Christians" who support the cruel and violent military actions against the Palestinians, I have to question how they understand the Bible. They are interpreting some obscure passages in the Bible and applying some very convoluted logic to them to come up with some very strange ideas that are motivating some of the most horrific and cruel violence in the world.

Christianity isn't that complex, it really boils down to some very simple sentences like "Do good" and "Be kind" and "Love one another".

[Ernie Nemeth]

These bodies die. All bodies die.

Since death is an illusion, bodies are an illusion.

The argument at this level is an argument about the color and style of the non-existent Emperor's cloths.

[mojo]

Hi all, I would say that most people would agree to the right to defend themselves and the Israeli's would be no different. Remember they were the ones that were attacked by terrorists & the Hamas in Gaza, but having said that, wars are never good. The OP question asks if Christians should support Israeli military action but I think what is currently happening is different than going out and starting a war. The Israeli military took that action in defense of an attack. Would you not defend your home from an intruder? The Christian Bible in the Book of Psalms talks about praying for the peace of Jerusalem. That is what is important as a Christian. The Bible mentions and History supports that there will always be wars & rumors of wars as a result of the corrupt World systems, and not one Country is free from corruption.

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by mojo (here)
Hi all, I would say that most people would agree to the right to defend themselves and the Israeli's would be no different. Remember they were the ones that were attacked by terrorists & the Hamas in Gaza, but having said that, wars are never good. The OP question asks if Christians should support Israeli military action but I think what is currently happening is different than going out and starting a war. The Israeli military took that action in defense of an attack. Would you not defend your home from an intruder? The Christian Bible in the Book of Psalms talks about praying for the peace of Jerusalem. That is what is important as a Christian. The Bible mentions and History supports that there will always be wars & rumors of wars as a result of the corrupt World systems, and not one Country is free from corruption.

Dear mojo, many thanks indeed, but you may find it useful to spend a little time catching up on the Israel vs Hamas thread, which you've not visited since 14 October.

There's a lot there, extremely well documented now, almost all of which directly counters your view.