WW3? Ukraine/US vs. Donbass/Russia

[shaberon]

Posted by ThePythonicCow (here)

Posted by shaberon (here)
You sir are insinuating that ...

I suspect that I would need to share a couple of beers with you to properly understand the perspective you are bringing to this discussion.

It's Unreformed Neo-Luddite.

What grabs me about the anthem is that it was definitely over the course of a few beers.

It was composed around 1812 because of the situation current in 1812, not misplaced pride of 2012.

Whereas the Pledge of Allegiance was penned around the 1930s and is designed to use an almost-Nazi salute with the palm up. This was drilled into our would-be brains first thing in the morning every morning! Flag worship! Nothing about why we fought the British, twice, but an actual religious prayer to a flag! However they quit enforcing it at some point, so, I am only describing kindergarten through two or three grades. *All* schools flew the federal flag from what I remember, with the time of it being half-masted was for Anwar Sadat. Since then, I quit being so heavily involved with it. As far as I know, the Communist Party never left my neighborhood, and never won an office.

Ironically the War of 1812 is what the Russians are experiencing now, relatively speaking.

It's not a ball I will drop. America and Russia ought to be friends, because they were, and there is no particularly good reason to change that.

Our rebellion was not against the British people, but, certain ideas of the British government -- which we then bought over again dyed-in-the-wool. They are saying more or less the same thing of the 1600s, there's nothing particularly "new" in any of this. Even if we say "Lithium" is a "new resource", it still falls under the principles of what atrocity will Capitalism commit in order to have it, with America's support to the old British Imperialism.

Perhaps what I am saying, is that, around 1776, America and some Europeans were somewhat on the same page, based on Agricultural Economy, and then the page goes missing until we see the BRICS of today. Why is BRICS "Westphalian"? It *opposes* One World Currency, a stratagem that has never left the backburner. It is *interested* in the viable sovereignty of each member, particularly of their sovereign currency. One of the worst sins of the American colonies was to ditch the Pound and use their own currency, which is why Franklin said unemployment was almost non-existent.

So, yes, that is propaganda, or bias, in saying that I have a positive valuation on arguments from this era, which were silenced and replaced in our sphere. I have never claimed to be a pacifist. There just isn't a "side", "platform", or "faction" among my current homelanders that I am on, or agree with. Most of the ones who take a historical look, do so on behalf of the Constitution, which I and/or we have been questioning since before it started. So that motive is useless.

Now the only reason I have American Revolutionary heritage, is because they had bailed from the conflicts going on in the United Kingdom. Out of recorded history, then, we are able to find perhaps a century or so of "American pioneering" that was really not all that bad! And then I personally, from living memory of persons I have spoken to, gives me a clear enough story about Industrialization overwhelming Agriculture in favor of Banks, which apparently buys Wars. So that is pretty simple. I can give a small example of peace and prosperity, surrounded on both sides by some really bad problems.


You know what they used to call "bowling"? They would steal a baby and "bowl" it out to the thin ice in the middle of a lake, and then of course the mother would run after her child, break the ice, and kill both, like the Israelis call a two-for-one shot. This was white people against other white people who lived down the road and prayed slightly differently. This is all you need to do to eat the hammer of hate sometimes! So of course they left! Those were some truly awful times for some really dumb reasons. And so you think you'd come to America and it would be really big, and a land of plenty, and for a while it was something like that. And you think you'd kick the British out because they live overseas, but, you better not nod off a wink because they do some far stranger things than just fight.

[Ewan]

Posted by Ravenlocke (here)
Text:
UKRAINIAN TROOPS FORCED TO BUILD FORTIFICATIONS IN RADIOACTIVE CHERNOBYL, CAPTURED SOLDIER REVEALS


Ukrainian soldier who was captured by Russian forces is to be believed. Ukrainian serviceman Vitaly Ozimov, who was taken by Russian troops in the Kursk region, has revealed that he previously participated in the construction of fortifications in the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

https://x.com/SputnikInt/status/1847682463268585879

While the digging will potentially prove quite harmful to people, on the whole Chernobyl is considered relatively safe now.

https://travellersworldwide.com/is-chernobyl-safe-now/

The Top Gear team (Jeremy Clarkson et al) had a Road Trip ending at Chernobyl in 2014!

Top Gear

[grapevine]

Posted by Ewan (here)
While the digging will potentially prove quite harmful to people, on the whole Chernobyl is considered relatively safe now.

https://travellersworldwide.com/is-chernobyl-safe-now/

The Top Gear team (Jeremy Clarkson et al) had a Road Trip ending at Chernobyl in 2014!

Top Gear

Was riveted by the Top Gear clip Ewan. You wouldn't get me near there for all the tea in China, regardless of it being "considered relativately safe now", although I noticed at least one green fir tree, so nature IS slowly coming through. I wonder how many times the radiation from Chernobyl and Fukishima has been blown around the planet in the intervening years . . .

[grapevine]

Posted by shaberon (here)
America and Russia ought to be friends, because they were, and there is no particularly good reason to change that.

I suspect Winston Churchill would disagree as he could sense the threat such an alliance could bring to the UK, with around 100 American air bases already in situ from WW2.

As an aside, there's an Al Jazeera video on YT which I shan't post to cause disruption to the thread entitled "Why 90% of foreign air bases are American", but here's a link for those who may be interested in watching it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amusB9j7Oz4&t=15s

[Tintin]

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book has been rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue/street/building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And that process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped”

- George Orwell

****************

The challenge here was choosing which thread to prioritise for this more than prophetic Blairism (of the Eric kind). Starmer removing portraits of British cultural and political icons in Downing Street? BLM activists, and Ukro-Nazis renaming streets/zones in commemoration of murderous thugs? Ukro-Nazis and Balto-Nazis defiling statues, or destroying them entirely in fits of Russo-phobic dim-wittery? Extinction rebellion - as about as oxymoronic a nomenclature as you'd find anywhere.

The choice seems endless these days. Any one of the turmoil threads, basically.

I went for the satanic Russo-phobic f**kwit option in the end: the sorry state of modern 'Ukraine' and their Zionist quislings reflects this somewhat most appropriately; we've got the receipts

Warning from history, here:

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
France will transfer 12 additional "Caesar" self-propelled guns to Ukraine at the expense of frozen Russian funds , Defense Minister Sébastien Lecornu said.

▪️He said in an interview for "La Tribune Dimanche" that for this purpose, Paris "charged" interest on the property of the Russian Federation for 300 million euros, in order to buy military equipment for Ukraine at the end of the year.

▪️According to Lecornu, Kiev will also receive 155 mm shells, Aster missiles, AASM guided air bombs, rocket launchers and Mistral missiles.

https://x.com/SprinterFamily/status/1848049751679520975

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/ArthurM40330824/status...69997818794080

¤=[Post Update]=¤

https://x.com/ArthurM40330824/status...79067942490438

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/MaimunkaNews/status/1847602365253165455

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1848034441966313601

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
🇷🇺⚔🇺🇦"🅾️brave" storm Selidovo, Gornyak and Vozdvizhenka

▪️New successes of the "Center" group of troops in the Pokrovsk direction are also recognized by Ukrainian militants:

▪️"The assault on Selidovo continues! The Russians were able to reach the eastern outskirts of the city and are trying to gain a foothold, they were also able to enter the outer houses of Vishnevoye from the side of the railway in the south, there is also heavy fighting there. The assault on Gornyak is also continuing, where the Russians were previously able to occupy houses in the northern quarters, now there are battles in the eastern and central ones. Fierce fighting is going on along the entire line, the Russians are using everything they have!" - a Ukrainian media militant is hysterical.

▪️East of the St. Basil the Great mine, Russian troops advanced along the railway and began to storm the city of Gornyak from the north. The fighting continues, Ukrainian analysts confirm.

▪️South of the aforementioned mine, the Russian Armed Forces advanced along the forest belt and occupied a former field reservoir.

▪️On the southern outskirts of Vozdvizhenka, the Russian Army occupied the territory of a farm.
- RVvoenkor

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1848028736769384857

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
‼️🇷🇺🇺🇦 The Russian army will become stronger after the war in Ukraine, regardless of the outcome of the conflict, according to the commander of NATO forces in Europe.

General Christopher Cavoli believes that no matter how the war turns out, the Russian army will be more powerful.

“Russia has suffered significant losses in Ukraine. However, the Russian armed forces are studying, refining, and implementing the lessons of war. By the end of the war in Ukraine, no matter how it looks, the Russian army will be stronger than it is today. These forces will be on the border of our alliance. They will be commanded by the same people who already see us as enemies and will be quite dissatisfied with how the war went. So, we will have an opponent with real skills, a large number of troops, and clear intentions,” said Cavoli.

Cavoli urged NATO to prepare for future threats, as Russia will remain a formidable adversary with serious military potential and “clear intentions.”

The main takeaway from this propaganda piece is a call for NATO countries to actively arm themselves.
- RVvoenkor

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1848011123984945400

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/BowesChay/status/1847985158391001149

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
The 80th anniversary of the liberation of Belgrade from Nazi occupation commemorates the pivotal event that occurred on October 20, 1944, when Soviet and Yugoslav Partisan forces freed the city from Nazi control.

This was a major victory in World War II, marking the end of German occupation in Belgrade.

The joint operation, led by the Red Army and Yugoslav forces, symbolized a significant collaboration and contributed to the broader Allied efforts in the region.

This anniversary honors the bravery of those who fought for freedom and resistance against fascism.

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1847974883336085737

Text:
🇷🇸 Serbia honors Soviet soldiers on 80th anniversary of Belgrade liberation.

Earlier today, Serbian President Aleksandar Vučić spoke by phone with Vladimir Putin, in which he said the people of Serbia are grateful to the Red Army units that, together with the Serbs, liberated the city.
- FRWL
https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1847977481480937503

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/aussiecossack/status/1847921752803815734

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/SenoreAmore/status/1846945905988997172

[Ravenlocke]

Text:
🇺🇦🇷🇺 Zaluzhny admitted giving up territories in negotiations

▪️ Former commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and ambassador to the UK Valeriy Zaluzhny said that the issue of territories is “not a priority” in resolving the conflict with the Russian Federation. In an interview with The Daily Telegraph, he noted that it is more important for Kyiv to receive security guarantees than to return the lost lands.

“I did not mention territories. I talked about security, safety and the feeling of being in my own home. If I lived in my own house and knew that my neighbor had appropriated part of my garden, I would say that we need to resolve this issue. If not now, then our children will have to resolve it,” the ambassador said.

❗️ In Zaluzhny’s words, the Western press noted a “tectonic shift” in rhetoric - previously, official Kyiv flatly refused any negotiations without returning to the 1991 borders. The Daily Telegraph notes that even the Ukrainian military personnel surveyed are in favor of a speedy peace agreement, and only Western partners are interested in prolonging military actions until 2025-2026.

Ostashko reports

https://x.com/Zlatti_71/status/1847980470115377492

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/tassagency_en/status/1847996218489671872

https://tass.com/defense/1858697?utm...m_social_share

Situation in Kursk region

Aviation, artillery and missile troops continued to defeat manpower and equipment of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Kursk region, as well as their reserves in the Sumy region

MOSCOW, October 20. /TASS/. Over the past 24 hours, Russian troops defeated eight brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces) in the Kursk region and continued their offensive operations, the Russian Defense Ministry reported.

The daily losses of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Kursk direction amounted to over 310 people and nine armored vehicles. In total, since the beginning of hostilities, the enemy has lost more than 25,000 servicemen.

TASS has assembled the main information about the situation in the Kursk region

Advancement in operation to destroy Ukrainian forces’ units

- Units of the Russian Battlegroup North continued to conduct offensive operations, during which they defeated the units of the 22nd, 47th and 115th mechanized, 82nd and 95th airborne assault brigades, the 36th marine brigade, as well as the 103rd and 129th defense brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces in the areas of the settlements of Kolmakov, Kruglenkoye, Lyubimovka, Nizhny Klin, Novoivanovka, Novy Put, Plekhovo, Tolsty Lug, Cherkasskaya Konopelka and Cherkasskoye Porechnoye.

- Aviation, artillery and missile troops continued to defeat manpower and equipment of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Kursk region, as well as their reserves in the Sumy region.

Ukrainian army losses

- Over the past 24 hours, the Ukrainian armed forces have lost more than 310 people. Nine armored vehicles were destroyed, including an infantry fighting vehicle, an M113 armored personnel carrier, seven armored combat vehicles, as well as six guns and six cars, two Enclave electronic warfare systems and a counter-battery radar station.

- In total, during the fighting in the Kursk direction, the enemy lost more than 25,050 servicemen, 167 tanks, 83 infantry fighting vehicles, 103 armored personnel carriers, 964 armored combat vehicles, 660 cars, 210 artillery pieces.

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/tassagency_en/status/1847989567892168824

https://tass.com/defense/1858671?utm...m_social_share


Ukrainian forces lost up to 460 troops in Battlegroup Center responsibility zone

The Battlegroup Center defeated five brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Donetsk People's Republic in one day and repelled nine counterattacks, the Russian Defense Ministry reported

MOSCOW, October 20. /TASS/. The Battlegroup Center defeated five brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces in the Donetsk People's Republic in one day and repelled nine counterattacks, the Ukrainian army lost up to 460 servicemen, the Russian Defense Ministry reported.

"Units of the Battlegroup Center continued to advance deep into the enemy's defenses, inflicted losses on the manpower and equipment of the 150th Mechanized, 25th Airborne, 59th Motorized Infantry, 5th Assault Brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces and the 101st Defense Brigade in the areas of the settlements of Dimitrov, Dzerzhinsk, Novotroitskoye, Shevchenko and Tsukurino of the Donetsk People's Republic. Nine counterattacks by the 53rd, 93rd, 100th Mechanized, 68th Jaeger Brigades, 49th, 425th Assault Battalions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the 37th Marine Brigade and the Lyut Assault Brigade of the National Police of Ukraine were repelled," the ministry reported.

According to the ministry, the enemy lost up to 460 servicemen, a US-made M117 armored personnel carrier, two Kozak combat armored vehicles, five cars, a 203-mm Pion self-propelled artillery unit, and a 122-mm Grad multiple launch rocket system.

Kiev forces lost 110 troops in Battlegroup East responsibility zone

The Battlegroup East group of forces defeated a brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces in the area of Dobrovolye in the Donetsk People's Republic and repelled a counterattack, the enemy lost up to 110 servicemen in 24 hours, the Russian Defense Ministry reported.

"Units of the Battlegroup East group of forces occupied more advantageous positions, defeated the manpower and equipment of the 72nd mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces in the area of the settlement of Dobrovolye in the Donetsk People's Republic. They also repelled the enemy's counterattack," the Russian Defense Ministry reported.

According to the ministry, the enemy's losses amounted to 110 servicemen, an armored combat vehicle, three cars and a Polish-made 155-mm Krab self-propelled howitzer.

Kiev forces’ daily losses in Battlegroup West responsibility zone exceed 450 troops

The Ukrainian armed forces lost more than 450 servicemen in a day in the area of responsibility of the Russia’s army’s Battlegroup West, the defense ministry reported.

"Three counterattacks of the assault groups of the 14th mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces were repelled. The enemy lost more than 450 servicemen, a US-made M113 armored personnel carrier, a pickup truck, a Polish-made 155-mm Krab self-propelled howitzer, a 122-mm D-30 howitzer, a UK-made 105-mm L-119 gun, an Enclave-N electronic warfare station, and an AN/TPQ-50 counter-battery radar made in the USA," the report says.

As the ministry noted, the units of the Battlegroup West improved their tactical position, inflicted losses on the manpower and equipment of the 54th, 60th, 67th, 116th mechanized brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces and the 119th defense brigade in the areas of the settlements of Kupyansk, Peschanoye in the Kharkov region, Prishib and Terny in the Donetsk People's Republic.

Ukrainian armed forces lose up to 90 servicemen in Battlegroup North responsibility zone

The Ukrainian armed forces lost up to 90 servicemen in the area of responsibility of the Battlegroup North in a day, the defense ministry added.

"In the Kharkov direction, the units of the Battlegroup North defeated units of the 57th motorized infantry and 92nd Airborne Assault Brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces in the areas of the settlements of Liptsy and Volchansk in the Kharkov region. The losses of the Ukrainian armed forces amounted to 90 servicemen and a 122 mm D-30 howitzer," the report says.

Kiev forces lost up to 645 troops in a day in Battlegroup South responsibility zone

The Ukrainian armed forces lost up to 645 servicemen in the zone of responsibility of the Russian Battlegroup South, the ministry reported.

"Units of the Battlegroup South improved the situation along the forward edge, defeated the formations of the 10th mountain assault, 23rd, 54th, 116th mechanized, 56th motorized infantry, 79th airborne assault and 46th airmobile brigades of the Ukrainian armed forces in the areas of the settlements of Reznikovka, Seversk, Verolyubovka, Dalneye, Kurakhovo, Dachnoye and Konstantinovka of the Donetsk People's Republic. They repelled two counterattacks by units of the 81st airmobile brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces," the ministry reported.

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the enemy's losses totaled 645 servicemen, two pickup trucks and a US-made 105-mm M119 gun.

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/aussiecossack/status/1848063316868079791

[Ravenlocke]

https://x.com/BowesChay/status/1847996537378357329