When Civilizations Collapse

[Bill Ryan]

Starting this new thread with a copy of a new post by grapevine on the Hodgepodge thread. This is a huge topic, linking a number of serious issues regularly discussed on the forum.

~~~

Civilisation Collapse

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=gReFRmoaVdQ

A somewhat sobering heading for a very interesting conversation between John Campbell, Neil Oliver and Tim Kelly. What is particularly interesting, imo is the "great forgetting", which has dogged several previous ancient civilisations.

"In this wide-ranging, three-way discussion, I sat down with two guests who come at the big questions from very different directions. Neil Oliver trained as an archaeologist and is widely known as a broadcaster and author. Many people still stop him in the street as "the Coast guy". Dr Tim Kelly is a medical doctor, computer scientist and systems analyst. My own background is 28 years as a nurse teacher, with a long-standing interest in science, research and writing.

The conversation started from a worry I've had for some time. With artificial intelligence, demographic change and growing social strain all arriving at once, could we be heading into a kind of dystopian dark age?

From there we covered a lot of ground. We talked about how civilisations collapse and forget, how fragile digital knowledge is, the limits of what we really know about the ancient world, the puzzle of consciousness, how complex systems go wrong (with medicine as the main example), fear as a tool of power, the cost of dissent, and whether this moment is just another turn of history's wheel or something new.

This is a summary of the main arguments. The views are the speakers' own.

Do civilisations survive their crises?

I opened by asking how earlier civilisations faced existential crises. Neil's answer was blunt: none of them responded successfully, because they are all gone. Ancient Egypt, Greece, Mesopotamia, Babylonia, the Akkadians, the Assyrians, the Romans and the British Empire all rose and fell.

Whether or not they saw the threat coming, they didn't survive it.

He compared this to the boom-and-bust cycle in economics. Growth breeds confidence, which breeds more growth, until inflation and loss of confidence bring recession and collapse. He thinks civilisations follow a similar pattern.

Neil cited two classical models of this cycle. The first is Polybius's anacyclosis. A good king is followed by a weaker heir, and monarchy decays into aristocracy, then oligarchy. The people overthrow that and create democracy, which degenerates into mob rule. A demagogue rises and falls, a good king returns, and the cycle begins again. The second is the eighteenth-century philosopher Giambattista Vico's four ages. In the age of gods, fearful people think the thunder speaks to them. In the age of heroes, knights fight the common people. In the age of men, you get republics and democracy. Then comes chaos, and the cycle repeats.

The "great forgetting"

Neil's own contribution was the idea of a deliberate forgetting, which he called a "great forgetting" or a kind of great reset. Humanity keeps rediscovering things it already knew. He recalled a university field trip to Stonehenge, where he asked a lecturer: who forgot what this was for? For centuries everyone must have known what you did at Stonehenge, just as we know what a cathedral is for even if we no longer go. The same goes for the pyramids. At some point a generation simply stopped knowing.

He doesn't think this is accidental. He pointed to the Library of Alexandria, a cosmopolitan centre of learning that held the works of Euclid, Archimedes, Ptolemy and others, and was burned more than once. He also pointed to the lost knowledge of other great civilisations, and to centuries of book burning, including in the Holy Roman Empire long before the Nazis. His view is that those in power at a given moment decide it would be better if people forgot certain things, and that this drives the cycle.

The fragility of digital knowledge

Neil argued the danger is sharper today than ever. When a library was burned in the past, other copies usually survived in private hands or other collections, so it was very hard to wipe out a work completely. Now so much is held centrally and streamed: books on Audible, films on Netflix. Whoever owns that platform could delete a title, whether To Kill a Mockingbird or the Bible, and if nobody owns a physical copy, it is gone for good.

Tim said his bigger concern was censorship rather than a technical failure. Knowledge doesn't need to be taken offline; a small change to an algorithm can make a position hard to find, so people only see a skewed picture. He also pointed out that AI companies are buying up huge numbers of second-hand books, cutting off the spines and scanning the pages, which destroys the originals. Tim has stopped throwing books out, and Neil regularly urges people on social media to buy old books and keep them. If he were rich, he joked, he would fill climate-controlled aircraft hangars with them."

[petra]

I'm surprised there was no mention of Atlantis! Apparently some people still think it was a myth.

[onawah]

Also no mention of the solar cycles and the regular global natural disasters created by them, which alters the entire perspective radically, even given how radical it already is.
It's curious how that information gets injected into widely viewed conversations like the OP featured one sometimes (though it wasn't introduced in this one), and then there is a kind of very precise amnesia that blocks that one colossal bit of subject matter, and the conversations go on as if it was never introduced.
Gradually however, the communal denial will wear so thin that it will no longer be treated as a kind of novelty topic, and hopefully people will begin to deal with it more on a personal level.
Because not much can be done to escape the consequences of the solar cycles, and nothing can be done to prevent them at this point.
It's definitely still the hugest elephant in the room.
It's psychological and spiritual preparation that will have to be the focus ongoing for most people.
Preppers will likely still be a small minority, but the scramble to find new havens in "safety zones" will increase, as will the market for survival goods.
The scientific data is being gradually leaked in the mainstream, but is often obfuscated or altered in various ways.
Presumably the Controllers want the subject to be noticed but not clearly understood yet, with the object being to initially create more confusion and fear, but not to hide the subject completely, as that would create too much backlash once the truth is finally clear enough for most to understand.

[Ravenlocke]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
Tim said,
He also pointed out that AI companies are buying up huge numbers of second-hand books, cutting off the spines and scanning the pages, which destroys the originals. Tim has stopped throwing books out, and Neil regularly urges people on social media to buy old books and keep them. If he were rich, he joked, he would fill climate-controlled aircraft hangars with them."

Destruction of antique, rare books also mentioned here,

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1728141


“ Jul 28
🚨AI companies are bulk-buying antique books, scanning every page to train their models, and destroying the originals in the process.

Booksellers reported sudden orders for thousands of pre-2022 physical books that are being pulped after digitization, with some rare and out-of-print titles among those lost forever.”

[shaberon]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
What is particularly interesting, imo is the "great forgetting", which has dogged several previous ancient civilisations.

That's why it is difficult to suppose anyone carried much particular knowledge that spanned thousands of years.

My suggestion is that in a spoken society, the oldest type of knowledge you might have is what you could get from your grandparents when you are young, talking about old things they remember when they were young, and you might get a type of knowledge base that goes maybe two hundred years. Under ideal circumstances, you might realistically know a few things about that, but then if there are breakdowns and destruction, we might expect that to contribute to memory loss.

Seizing upon that vulnerability, then what we might call "literature" begins slightly before 2,000 B. C. E. as the Sumerian King List:

In its best-known and best-preserved version, as recorded on the Weld-Blundell Prism, the SKL begins with a number of fictional antediluvian kings, who ruled before a flood swept over the land, after which kingship went to Kish. It ends with a dynasty from Isin (early second millennium BC), which is well-known from other contemporary sources.

In the past, the Sumerian King List was considered as an invaluable source for the reconstruction of the political history of Early Dynastic Mesopotamia. More recent research has indicated that the use of the SKL is fraught with difficulties, and that it should only be used with caution, if at all, in the study of ancient Mesopotamia during the third and early second millennium BC.

The Flood Myth is an evident fiction.

If we look at several other cultures, it can always be found as an add-on, it is not in the Gathas but it is in Zoroastrianism, it is not in the Veda but it is in the Puranas, it is not in the religion of the Psalms but it is in the Torah. Conveniently, "scripture" in this usage has the meaning of "hymns".

On the other hand, we know of a good example, but "they" don't.

You can be pretty sure a volcano caused tremendous harm to Crete, maybe 1,600 B. C. E., maybe a little after that, but you can find in the archeological layers a distinct Cretan civilization whose relics rapidly declined and were replaced by Myceneans.

I've never been able to find anything that remembers it happening.

It's suggested that prayers about Poseidon becoming angry were inspired by it, but that doesn't tell me the briefest story.

Then -- after the Myceneans, who, as far as we know, ran an international oligarchy that collapsed for a number of reasons -- the Greeks say it was the land of Minos, another apparently fictional figure, as most of the regions known to Greeks have a fantastic beginning tacked on to something objectively real in the ca. 800 B. C. E. range. But none of that stuff is in Hesiod's Cosmogony; and you can sort of track when various stories may have been added over the centuries.

And I'll have to say -- it is mostly discoveries and finds that have happened after I was in school -- that in many ways some very specific and objective things can be said that, I don't think, have been said yet. None of the "literature" is accurate to whatever may have happened, for example someone recently started a thread on Bahrain or Dilmun, which would be amazingly relevant to whatever Sumerian myths are about, a massive necropolis with the use of Indian writing.

India and Iran then arguably become distinct cultures, by means of disposal of bodies, rather than shipping them to an international grave, which perhaps was a valuable service for sanitation purposes. It's really big, it is so big it is hard to imagine only locals winding up there. Until useful genetic material is found you just don't know.

[onawah]

All "myths" aside, there is plenty of evidence now from experts in various fields from "forbidden" Archeology to Astrophysics demonstrating there were indeed great floods that wiped out whole civilizations, and that in itself adequately explains humanity's "forgetfulness", as so many records were destroyed and survivors were forced to focus on just eking out an existence.
There is a new source now of where the global "safety zones" will be after the coming pole shift, micronova disasters, expected to culminate sometime in the 2040s here:
https://havenbound.co/

Posted by shaberon (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
What is particularly interesting, imo is the "great forgetting", which has dogged several previous ancient civilisations.

[shaberon]

Yes, that would be more correct, there were multiple floods, some of which could be cataclysmic for a famous city, or maybe an entire culture.

Not the kind that says the entire world was submerged with a sole survivor, etc.

In India, one example would be Hastinapur. It was a major settlement not much before 1,000 B. C. E. and was probably totally wiped out by around 800 B. C. E.. But if you go to the myths, you will quickly pick up different impressions.


The other thread I linked has not been updated, so, I'm going to move in what I posted there. It began about the south coast of the Persian Gulf known as Dilmun, which was of importance as externally recorded in the Ur III period:

The Dilmun civilization is mentioned first in Sumerian cuneiform clay tablets dated to the late third millennium BC, found in the temple of the goddess Inanna, in the city of Uruk. The adjective Dilmun is used to describe a type of axe and one specific official; in addition there are lists of rations of wool issued to people connected with Dilmun.

One of the earliest inscriptions mentioning Dilmun is that of king Ur-Nanshe of Lagash (c. 2300 BC) found in a door-socket: "The ships of Dilmun brought him wood as tribute from foreign lands."

That turns out to be a crucial date. For whatever reason, around 2,300 B. C. E., we find a surge of civilization, not a single one, but a vast urbanization with inter-connectedness possibly extending from Hanoi to Haifa. Although there are older writings, at this time we find Semitic libraries and archives with hundreds or thousands of texts. This is as seen from Dilmun:

Contacts with the Amorite state of Mari, in the northern Levant, are attested. Around this time, the largest royal burial mounds were erected.

Copper ingots from Oman and bitumen (which occurred naturally in Mesopotamia) may have been exchanged for cotton textiles and domestic fowl, major products of the Indus region that are not native to Mesopotamia. Instances of all of these trade goods have been found. The importance of this trade is shown by the fact that the weights and measures used at Dilmun were identical to those used by the Indus, and were not those used in Southern Mesopotamia.

To help them out, Mari also used the Indus system of weights in 2,300 B. C. E.. That's one thing that was definitely widespread, and, still currently in use (by jewelers).

I'm not sure we would say Dilmun "collapsed", but there was a dull point that parallels the end of IVC sites and its physical culture:

A decline is visible from around 1720 BC. Many settlements were no longer used, and the building of royal mounds ceased. The Barbar Temple fell into ruins.

Dilmun was then ruled by Assyria, the Kassites, and so on, and was abandoned much later, so it certainly came to an end. It is thought of highly in the myths:

The later Babylonian Enuma Elish speaks of the creation site as the place where the mixture of salt water, personified as Tiamat, met and mingled with the fresh water of Abzu. 'Bahrain' in Arabic means "the twin waters", where the fresh water of the Arabian aquifer mingles with the salt waters of the Persian Gulf. The promise of Enki to Ninhursag, the Earth Mother:

For Dilmun, the land of my lady's heart, I will create long waterways, rivers and canals, whereby water will flow to quench the thirst of all beings and bring abundance to all that lives.

Yes, irrigation became a major source of life, while it also has these incredible burial sites in a given area:





Physically, we can tell Dilmun was of high centrality, although we have at most an approximation to their intellectual content.

At least in the height of their glory, it's not Semitic or Sumerian.

I haven't found anyone work up the superb artifact posted. The subject of seals is inevitable in a study of carpentry and Dilmun Furniture 2025:

The Dilmun civilization, developed on the Western shore of the Persian Gulf, c.3000–324 BC, left little evidence of its existence, among them seals, which reveal social and ritual scenes.

The only sources for tracing and examining Dilmun furniture are the Dilmun seals found in Saar, Bahrain, and Failaka Island (Kuwait). The two categories of seal depictions were social and ritual scenes showing thrones, chairs, stools, and ritual tables. Thus, before examining and visualizing Dilmun furniture, it is essential to investigate its natural sources ––mainly forest and plantation wealth –– available carpentry techniques and tools, and furniture produced by other ancient civilizations.

So they're not going to go into the seals in their own merit, but, I will say they hold the caveat of modern research:

The use of seals is both practical and spiritual. Therefore, besides authenticating or legitimizing a transaction, personal identification, badge of authority, or specialized occupation, they could also be amulets, a kind of charm or object that protected a person from trouble or evil spirits.

That's important, in the sense that whatever is written is not necessarily just a tax stamp. They may be dual-use, i. e. something that superficially identifies an owner, is, itself, a statement or complete story.

Their use begins as IVC clones and then develops a regional dialect.

It should be noted that no seals with the Indus script were found at Saar, and no seal-bearing scripts were identified during the research for this study. Some iconography with words or symbols is common between the Dilmun, Indus, and Mesopotamian seals: the depiction of an animal in the lower part and symbols in the upper part, and other items or symbols, co-existing seated figures on stools, or thrones.

The primary source for tracing ancient Dilmun furniture is the seals found in the two main centers of civilization, Bahrain and Failaka Island (Kuwait).

So, Failaka is the primary site for script. But Indus seals are the same way -- some are just images without any script, some are hybrids, some are all script.

However it is images that are traceable from pre-script India back to Iran. That is to say, they exist before 3,000 B. C. E., and defy the impossible by remaining current for a thousand years to emerge in Dilmun.

This is important, in the sense it is gold, however the iconography is entirely Indian, minus the fact of some having an older Iranic source.

The symmetry is only broken by Grain in the upper left. Let's take a look, and, I won't "read" it, but the contents can be described:






The ancient Iranic component includes the upper figure of a Pipal Tree or ficus religiosa, the spiritual tree of India par excellence, which however appears in older Iranic art.

Around it are a couple of flying or rotating three-lobed plants, possibly the Mountain Lily, which are also ancient and possibly responsible for "W"-shaped glyphs.

Slightly lower, the animals with big reverse-curved horns are the Iranian Ibex, and, around them are a comb-shaped symbol. This is actually the holy symbol. It comes from Iran and is one of the primary functions of Indus script. I don't know what it means. I know it carries the highest reverence.

The rest of it is quite Indian.

Tethered to the base of the Pipal Tree are Indian Zebu Bulls, followed by a girl. There is definitely Bull-leaping iconography from Crete, and, it is drawn out in detail in India, in a way that you can't tell if she is being killed or successfully did her trick. Something happens. You can also find the Syrian Goddess standing on a Zebu around 1,800 B. C. E..

There is an antelope or Ibex doing a Reversed Gaze, which is used in India, in a way that follows a rule set. These images are never freehand but follow some kind of configuration. Only a Markhor and Tiger also do it.

It is actually the lowest tier that is more interesting. There is a totem pole with wavy horns, those of the Markhor goat, same as the uppermost creature. He is consistent in all of the narrative scenes in India. But tethered to the pole are a pair of Gaur or Buffalos. But then what may look rather ordinary to us is quite special here -- the Fish above and Birds below.

The Fish glyph in India is so problematic, it's been speculated to be a looped cord, because fish don't walk on their tail fins.

They only have One Realistic Fish, and, a limited number of horizontal ones that are background objects I call Sky Fish.

The shape then rotates vertically and is caught by a Gharial (crocodile). Image becomes writing? The shape that becomes a glyph is the one that has been caught, not the more natural horizontal one as seen here in Kuwait.

The normal-looking one -- aside from the fact it may be airborne -- is heavily represented not in seals, but Indus pottery, where it is important and has a lovely red and blue coloration that survives quite well on some specimens.

In other words, something so rare as to be almost un-findable on seals comes from an older and quite common ethos. It just looks like a normal and insignificant picture in the array, but, it has all that behind it.

Over an antelope:










The Bird is even worse because it is extremely rare in the iconic sense. It has several variegated glyphs, but almost nothing like the simple and innocent version shown above. They perhaps are on the Boat prism.

And yet one of the few artistic nuances it may have is that Markhor Horns become its wings.


If you have ever studied systems of writing, it will become rapidly obvious that IVC script does not work like that.

These are not symbols of letters, and, they are probably not symbols of words.

For instance, one of the most observable kinds of behavior is the use of pairs or doubling. It seems to be allowed only in certain ways. There is only one pair of naturally-walking Birds, on Zebu M-338 in the middle of this montage:




The Bird has an unusual propensity for appearing in that we call parentheses, (), which have other uses in the script, such as (, ), )(, and )). It is an unknown formulation of words that would yield something like Standing Bird with bird and fish in parentheses M-107:





When you go into the script, then, yes, bird and fish have an elaborate conversation, which is not apparent from their iconic use mainly as background agents.

There is a Comb-winged Bird like there is a Person with Comb. If we look at it one way, there are human-sized glyphs, and Monumental Objects larger than people, and then the other way, people reduced to glyphs.



Here is a pottery example of Bird over Zebu near a Pipal:




But then you find a similar role of its strange associate, Sky Fish over Zebu H-1593:




By familiarity, then, the Dilmun gold seal looks like a table of contents or chapter headings, especially by its use of Fish and Bird. Those are entire subjects. One suggestion is bird is "gemstones" and maybe different birds are different colors of stones; you could argue the bird with a Y-shaped split tail is a black drongo, and black has few uses such as antimony, and IVC has some rather interesting and telling metallurgical samples, to the point where you can literally say "this seal is this metal". Dilmun and India don't have gold. It may have been received as payments and re-cast into objects.






The famous Ur records trade with Dilmun which is fairly definable, and with Meluhha which is not. The implications are it was either part of IVC, or, the intermediary to it, but they were foreigners who required translation. And that is what a large part of this is about.

One record from Ur III refers to "multi-colored ivory birds from Meluhha". We also find on an Akkadian "translator" seal that one Meluhha person is carrying a Markhor, and the other, a flask likely indicative of the measurement system. That's quite close to Goat-as-Speech in Vedic metaphor.

There are multiple examples including some with Sky Fish:

“Based on cuneiform documents from Mesopotamia we know that there was at least one Meluhhan village in Akkad at that time, with people called ‘Son of Meluhha‘ living there. The cuneiform inscription (ca. 2020 BCE) says that the cylinder seal belonged to Shu-ilishu, who was a translator of the Meluhhan language.

Quite contemporaneous to the disk, nothing Akkadian shows a tidal wave of Indic iconography, but appropriates some of it.

There are, in fact, a lot of people carrying goats, in a series that eventually uses a Date Palm and is more reminiscent of Dilmun. Over a dozen examples. IVC has no counterpart to it.





Due to usage on funerary objects, the bird may be "the soul", and the fish could represent the "two souls" idea, and/or there could be symbolism of the Three Worlds that are a staple of Indian thought.

The gold scene would have nothing to do with the Zodiac, and just two seasons, wet and dry.

It is like a "Rosetta stone" or shows us things that are probably understandable in multiple languages; and in both India and Dilmun, you can see script move from what looks like a common basis, into their own individual variations; Dilmun uses the Twins and Checkerboards but then soon converts the Pipal into a Date Palm and seems to write its own message with people "drinking beer", which of course it not necessarily what it is, I mean it could be a hookah.


Combining these elements, a pair of birds and gharial with fish, is perhaps the most suggestively "international" Indus seal, Boat M-1429:




They even have a boat model, 3D with a dozen or so people in it, as total passengers with nothing resembling work, or war, just placid.

The Dilmun seal is similar to two of those faces. Then you get a person, a palindrome, and a fish, with some markings that encapsulate a three-lobed plant or stalk. So far, my reaction is IVC script contains about 40-60 general characters, that are like "basic literacy" which were probably common and perhaps international, and then something like four hundred detailed things only used by an Indian scribal society.

This is a rare solo bird glyph acquired in Afghanistan, possibly from Shortugai, which has the same U-shaped symbol as seen above, containing something that looks like an infinity symbol, which is actually associated with a Rabbit:





Dilmun first adapted the imagery and a minor handful of this script, for about fifty years, and then it presents its own version until seals go out of use.



In the strictly artistic sense, this style is traceable through Old Syria and into Kassite Babylonia. At least in part, there is a language of heraldry or animal hieroglyphs.

This is still somewhat visible in the Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III, although these are meant as literal tribute offerings from "Musri". While all the other tributaries give something "of value", this section is all exotic, and at least partly Indian.

It has what may be the "Unicorn joke" in the panel with a water buffalo, rhinoceros (sakea), and antelope:





The sculptor never saw a rhino.

India has some perfectly-well detailed rhinoceri, who roamed freely up to Pakistan. Yet the "unicorn" oddly matches this "sakea", which leads me to speculate it may have been a joke about people who did not know what a rhinoceros was (they were not from India). In turn, this "inside joke" becomes like a vessel for the specifically-Indian culture that is not reflected in outlier seals or anywhere else, but is on Unicorn seals.




Relatively speaking, there is something that ranks as "forgotten", Drought, the Meghalayan Age:

The age began with a 200-year drought that impacted human civilizations in the Eastern Mediterranean, Mesopotamia, the Indus Valley and the Yangtze River Valley.

Not really one big drought that exterminated everybody that whole time, but, more like "patterns of drought" that certainly stressed things far more than they helped.

I don't have a name for it, but the thing I am getting, is some very extensive trade routes beginning not long after the Ice Age, something like 6,000 B. C. E., which perhaps peaks with that Dilmun disk. I am not sure about "collapse"; what you find is depressed periods at around 1,600 and 1,300 B. C. E. we know little of, and although we can add the removal of the Myceneans around 1,000 B. C. E., the thing as a whole seems very resilient and keeps going through the Greek and Roman eras.

In the 2-300s, major faiths begin waging polemics at each other. This includes the Jewish and Christian rivalry we are familiar with, and also Zoroastrianism, which going forward becomes Sassanian Zoroastrianism that appears to be every bit as repressive as anything western. And so it looks like a total intellectual disengagement on principle. Mutual alienation. Then the Romans finally kicked the pagans out of the Olympics and whatever had been built was gone.

It looks to me by around the 600s you get a kind of self-inflicted dark age, which stands on the shoulders of burning Alexandria's library and eliminating the Druids.

Then for example, in the Indian Bhutadamara Tantra in its original manuscript, they use a Roman Denarius, and then in its copies from probably the 700s, they don't know what it means.

At that point, the tenuous connections to China increased to replace the west for India.

I see things in terms of this total throughput, from all time --> tolerance, to a fixed era --> intolerance, as having hacked the root of civilization as a whole.

The individual fates of dynasties or nations, or the survival of a settlement, those are like complexities in the multi-faceted nature. The corresponding social principle is that a King is supposed to offer a Debt Jubilee. This does not solve all problems, but it is supposed to be part of the government's power. It should at least be automatic, every 60 (India) or 64 (Babylon) years, because their calculations indicated a society would not be able to double this lifespan otherwise; there would be strife and revolt and misery. So for a king to decree it in the seventeenth year is like a big hammer of justice. Of course this has largely been deleted from memory.

That's the main missing point.

[grapevine]

What puzzles me is the lack of bones over millions of years of millions of species, not just humans. Logically we're all living in a huge bone yard, yet there aren't that many, comparatively speaking, unlike the pebbles on Brighton Beach.

When considering previous civilisations, although we have overviews of their physical demise I wonder whether their downfall was similar to the turmoil our world is undergoing atm, ie the breakdown of society, lack of trust in government, etc.

And given that we've had a leg up from other civilisations in terms of technology, it'd be interesting to know how the next civilisation will progress from the artefacts that we leave behind.

[petra]

I get angry when I think of what happened to Atlantis, supposedly. I heard it was a war between factions. I don't know much about it I confess. Just that it makes me angry. Also the destruction of the Library of Alexandria. Not much pisses me off.. but this does. I think it must be because I feel like we are dearly missing out on something world changing. The Sphinx makes me suspicious too! Maybe it's nothing..

[Vicus]

Anomalies

Well,I can care less about a"continent" that still is not found anywhere...maybe the Bahamas? stay tune until next millennium...

But, Egypt Pyramids are still there,also Kobleki Tepe in Turkey ,the impossible megaliths constructions in Russia, more Pyramids in Bosnia, Indonesia,and on and on...

And in ALL of those places the "official" authority's denies forded explorations ...why? only "private" search,and when something "new"came out then is at least radio "silence"...or ridiculed...

Because then will come the REAL history... and will expose the Fairy Tales...

Mixed in the REAL History are Aliens and cyclical catastrophes... RESET?...bring it on! we need a Cleanse...

And maybe after that we will see the light...or again the same old story...

[Mike Gorman]

I wonder if all this recent official warning coming from ALL the 5 eye country governments, yes here in Australia also, has something to do with a collective project to shut down the www as we know it - after all Social Media & independent publishing of Blogs/Podcasts is a real bother to their grip on narratives, to central control of information, it is a royal pain to them isn't it? Maybe a closure due to submarine cable cutting - then a repair which only allows for AI and minimal levels of internet traffic...hmm

[onawah]

The land that was the continent of Atlantis is currently underwater although, as Atlanteans were a sea-going people, there were colonies scattered in various places which are currently above sea level.
The continent was above sea level for a very long time and went through more than one solar cycle/pole reversal, each of which caused huge destruction.
The era during which the warring factions and the Tuoai Stone were the cause of manmade destruction was apparently just one incident in the various rises and falls of Atlantean civilizations.
A lot of readings from the psychic Edgar Cayce were focused on Atlantis and he predicted that the continent would be rising again, as it is showing signs of doing now in Bimini off the coast from Cuba.
A large pyramid complex has been discovered underwater there and has been clearly photographed.
Dark Journalist has been an excellent source of information about all that in his series about "The Hot Zone": https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...VCR7Cpui9wElEg
Ben Davidson of SpaceWeatherNews has posted credible scientific data on his site which demonstrates that during the regular solar cycles/pole reversals, one of which we are experiencing now, the diminishing magnetism of the planet has a profound detrimental effect not just on animals and plants, but on humanity as well, on physical as well as mental health.
Moral decay seems to be a factor in that too, so I think we can expect to see things getting more and more weird and possibly violent in this current "Clown World" as the magnetism continues to diminish.
There are other factors at work too, of course, but Earth's diminishing magnetism is a very BIG one, and one that is still being overlooked in large part.

I think bones only fossilize under certain conditions; otherwise they disintegrate which is no doubt why more are not found.

Posted by grapevine (here)
What puzzles me is the lack of bones over millions of years of millions of species, not just humans. Logically we're all living in a huge bone yard, yet there aren't that many, comparatively speaking, unlike the pebbles on Brighton Beach.
When considering previous civilisations, although we have overviews of their physical demise I wonder whether their downfall was similar to the turmoil our world is undergoing atm, ie the breakdown of society, lack of trust in government, etc.
And given that we've had a leg up from other civilisations in terms of technology, it'd be interesting to know how the next civilisation will progress from the artefacts that we leave behind.