It's not the truth.

[xbusymom]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
I never discounted your experience, you have grown to defensive over your experience to demonstrate the dynamics that is attempted to be conveyed here--it is possible that even though that was your experience it may not belong to you at all. Or that once those issues related to what is recalled a past life are worked through cease to exist. I'm sorry you can't comprehend that but I'm not responsible for your comprehensive.

There is no meaningful way to convey an examination of the topic without people getting their knickers in a twist about it, which speaks volumes on its own.

You have twice demonstrated a reactionary defensiveness to first Roman and then myself over what is simply an exploration, and an attempt to cast a new perception on a old paradigm. Yes you make it clear this threatens your belief system, I understand that.

I may have very well overcame my shortcomings, but that I'm not going to be your excuse for remaining stuck in yours.

Stick with the Abe Hicks crap, its less threatening for you.

Unknown Territory doesn't seem to agree with you.

so instead of responding to the issues you claim to have posed a question about, you are still just bashing me for my viewpoint...

Hmmm... interesting response for a professional counselor?

[9eagle9]

I didn't bash your viewpoint, I actually reframed it into YOUR experience rather than a 2nd or 3rd party account imposed on you.

I suggested there was evidence of an emerging pattern of archetypical construct which while revealing on your own, doesn't necessarily means it belonged to you.

You also have an emerging pattern demonstrated on other threads of leaping to the defense when it is clear you have no clear idea what is being conveyed.

I suggest that having a father as a psychologist didn't show you much about managing your emotions, this isn't really a paradigm to be threatened by.

[xbusymom]

You also have an emerging pattern demonstrated on other threads of leaping to the defense when it is clear you have no clear idea what is being conveyed.

I suggest that having a father as a psychologist didn't show you much about managing your emotions, this isn't really a paradigm to be threatened by.

can we PLEEAASSSEEE stick to the topic instead of continuing to show that you have a superior vocabulary when telling people they are stupid and uncivilized.

emerging pattern of archetypical construct

since when?

doesn't necessarily means it belonged to you

... MY experience had the information I requested (when I was alone in my house), posed as 'answers' to my question that was relevant to my situation I was desiring a solution to, presented to me in a way I could understand.

if it never 'belonged' to ME, then who's was it?

[Hervé]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? 10 years? 40?

What happened to that person you were when you were 15?

You brought up an interesting word that is dis-similar to the other words of re-call and re-member and that is re-live.

The beginning of this post was initiated in the past.

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
All right, let's try another tack here... any of youse remember/recall/relive what youse did have for diner yesterday? Is it still in your memory or has it been wiped out blanK?

... because that, by definition, already belongs to "past life," i.e. "not now." If so, is it a construct of the conscious mind grabbing at straws from the subconscious?

So... when individuals remember/recall/relive something that occurred in their earlier years... before birth... during gestation... before conception... etc, in the same maner as they remember/recall/relive yesterday's diner... that too is "past life" material!

Good point on re-live, it should have been re-experience.

From the OP, I do understand that, according to the definition of "truth" that is put forth, anything else is an arbitrary creation, incorporation or accretion.

I also understand that when that "zero state" is disabled or incapacitated, all the arbitraries of creation, incorporation or accretion are taking over in the now.

What I was arguing via the past lives arbitraries is that when "zero state" is being disabled (not conscious), these arbitraries (memories) get enacted in the now and substituting for new, appropriate creations. So it goes with beliefs and/or mind-control post-hypnotic suggestions/implants. Although "not-truth," that doesn't make them "not-real" as these are being played out in the now where "zero-state" should be creating anew.

An example could be taking a picture, although as soon as it is taken it becomes "not-truth" and misrepresenting the current "truth," it is nevertheless a snapshot of a moment of truth that has existed, so is a memory. It is a "not-truth," yet it is a glimpse on the reality of a moment of "truth" gone by, a past reality.

[9eagle9]

Ever since there have been archetypical stories and patterns to emerge from one's pysche.

Something that people who work within the confines of one's psyche are more apt to notice than one's who don't.

if it never 'belonged' to ME, then who's was it?

if you'd get off your defensive posture long enough, that is something this questioning and back and forth may lead some insight to. You seem determined that this line of reasoning should not proceed any further because you are threatened by it.

the topic is more about how past lives anchor one in time, not if your past lives are valid or meet some standard. That is determined by you. Creation of one's own personal reality or...story (archetypical story).

I have no idea or evidence if that it was your higher self communicating to you, one can reasonably suspect since your queries revolved around an archetypical situation, then it reasonable to suspect an archonic energy responded to the query. Given how higher self aligned folks are not so defensive your reactions tend to provide evidence in that direction anyway. Which would mean its not you at all reacting to me but whatever is attached to that archetypical story. A higher self is really not that territorial about this sort of back and forth.

If I didn't note previously this is not personal, and the fact you are making it personal tends to be more revealing than anything else.

It's not personal, you are not the only person who has experienced this--bottom line. I suggest you stop making it personal.

[9eagle9]

That is an apt description.

Should arbitrary creation be accepted as truth or at least reality? Or would that be the choice of those having the recollection. There will be those who do not accept it as reality and those who do, which as you see, creates conflict.

My observations of this phenom tend to run along the lines of past dissolution or connectivity. Not the validity or reality of past lives which can only be altered if one detaches from what brings that recall in the first place.

And of course if its a past life being recalled at all.

Again it does beg the question what re-live and re-experience actually implies. To find one suddenly shunted off to re-experience or is it really just a vivid , 'real' seeming recollection.

And to add to the welter of back and forth past life experiences being EXPRESSED in the present.

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

The more we connect 'past life' into the framework of what is occuring now or being expressed in our lives, would that not somehow keep re-anchoring the concept of time?

The difference between the person at 15 and the person at 40 would be.....you have more to recall at age 40.

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Are you the same person you were 20 years ago? 10 years? 40?

What happened to that person you were when you were 15?

You brought up an interesting word that is dis-similar to the other words of re-call and re-member and that is re-live.

The beginning of this post was initiated in the past.

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
All right, let's try another tack here... any of youse remember/recall/relive what youse did have for diner yesterday? Is it still in your memory or has it been wiped out blanK?

... because that, by definition, already belongs to "past life," i.e. "not now." If so, is it a construct of the conscious mind grabbing at straws from the subconscious?

So... when individuals remember/recall/relive something that occurred in their earlier years... before birth... during gestation... before conception... etc, in the same maner as they remember/recall/relive yesterday's diner... that too is "past life" material!

Good point on re-live, it should have been re-experience.

From the OP, I do understand that, according to the definition of "truth" that is put forth, anything else is an arbitrary creation, incorporation or accretion.

I also understand that when that "zero state" is disabled or incapacitated, all the arbitraries of creation, incorporation or accretion are taking over in the now.

What I was arguing via the past lives arbitraries is that when "zero state" is being disabled (not conscious), these arbitraries (memories) get enacted in the now and substituting for new, appropriate creations. So it goes with beliefs and/or mind-control post-hypnotic suggestions/implants. Although "not-truth," that doesn't make them "not-real" as these are being played out in the now where "zero-state" should be creating anew.

An example could be taking a picture, although as soon as it is taken it becomes "not-truth" and misrepresenting the current "truth," it is nevertheless a snapshot of a moment of truth that has existed, so is a memory. It is a "not-truth," yet it is a glimpse on the reality of a moment of "truth" gone by, a past reality.

[Peace of Mind]

Open your eyes, the truth is right in front of your face...it always was. We were just conditioned to overlook it. The masters of obscurity have been busy lately Re-Upholstering the wooly veil. Perhaps it’s the latest fashion trend because the line of followers seems to be growing. The cloth is no longer flimsy, now it’s hardened into fashionable eyewear…or turned into permanent eye blockers (along with a dangling carrot).

Once one takes off these shades… the light shines in, everything is revealed. But, one must have courage to take off the shades and develop that inner-strength allowing others to see who they really are. The shades purpose is to let in some of the light because the full light/truth can be unbearable for some. Sometimes the light can be so strong (due to spending so much time in the darkness), it may cause some to buy new and improved shades…not only to keep out more of the light …but to provide extra comfort as they hide behind their false visions.

Peace

[xbusymom]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Ever since there have been archetypical stories and patterns to emerge from one's pysche.

Something that people who work within the confines of one's psyche are more apt to notice than one's who don't.

if it never 'belonged' to ME, then who's was it?

if you'd get off your defensive posture long enough, that is something this questioning and back and forth may lead some insight to. You seem determined that this line of reasoning should not proceed any further because you are threatened by it.

the topic is more about how past lives anchor one in time, not if your past lives are valid or meet some standard. That is determined by you. Creation of one's own personal reality or...story (archetypical story).

I have no idea or evidence if that it was your higher self communicating to you, one can reasonably suspect since your queries revolved around an archetypical situation, then it reasonable to suspect an archonic energy responded to the query. Given how higher self aligned folks are not so defensive your reactions tend to provide evidence in that direction anyway. Which would mean its not you at all reacting to me but whatever is attached to that archetypical story. A higher self is really not that territorial about this sort of back and forth.

If I didn't note previously this is not personal, and the fact you are making it personal tends to be more revealing than anything else.

It's not personal, you are not the only person who has experienced this--bottom line. I suggest you stop making it personal.

I am not making it personal (aside from the fact that you asked for a personal account of an experience), and I am not on the defensive... I am simply trying to get back to the topic...

it is YOU who are continuing to slant my information to suit your needs...

ok... so to cater to your (CHANGING) parameters... please answer the responses.

if it is not THE PERSON'S experience, then who is injecting that experience into THAT PERSON?

and when did this emerging pattern of archetypal stories develop?

[9eagle9]

Archetypical stories such as you have described have always been around.

come on lady you're the one who is some authority on the subject becaues your father has a phd in pyschology and you don't know about archetypes or archetypical stories or roles that are assumed by them?

Does JUNG ring a bell? No? Ask your father.

I already answered your question. The fact you can't understand the answer doesn't mean I didn't respond to it.

[xbusymom]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Archetypical stories such as you have described have always been around.

come on lady you're the one who is some authority on the subject becaues your father has a phd in pyschology and you don't know about archetypes or archetypical stories or roles that are assumed by them?

Does JUNG ring a bell? No? Ask your father.

I already answered your question. The fact you can't understand the answer doesn't mean I didn't respond to it.

I am going to agree to disagree... because you simply can't resist slinging mud...

I said my father (who has a PHD in psychology) taught me to respect other's viewpoints about their realities...

I never said I was an authority on this issue... quite the contrary, I was asking for information from you … and it seems you cant give it to me without continuing to be flipant and snooty about it.

and I guess that means you win , 9eagle9... I would rather bow out of the discussion than to fight with someone that has no patience with people that arent' up to their “level of intelligence” ... it could have been a good opportunity (for you ) to TEACH someone (ME) something...

Sorry to everyone else in this thread.

[NancyV]

I try not to deal with proclaiming "truth" other than for the convenience of communicating. Since I was young it was quite natural for me to reject others statements about what they told me was true, no matter what subject it was concerning. It was clear to me even in 1st grade that it was mostly about preferences, not truth. One person would tell you that it was right or correct to do something in one way, another would tell you something opposite was true. So I concluded that "truth" was belief, perspective and preference.

It was easiest to get along by finding out what a persons beliefs were, then communicating to them on that level...as though I understood their beliefs. But I had an innate contrarianism which urged me to argue about things I refused to accept as "truth". It took me many years to admit that I LIKED to debate, argue, and attempt to refute others beliefs. Since all beliefs can be refuted it was not actually difficult. Of course any beliefs I adopted temporarily were also eventually refuted since if I couldn't find someone else to show me how silly I was I would end up arguing myself out of it.

As I got older and read a LOT I also found that even so called historical facts differed from one writer to another. There were many translations of the bible with differing views and much material deliberately left out or changed. Even E=MC squared, a basic truth of physics given to us by Einstein has been "disproven". But in my opinion if something can be disproven that is still not "proof" of anything. Eventually I became very comfortable with not knowing anything and not believing anything. The more I read and the more I knew what others THOUGHT they knew....the less I knew.

Eventually my search for some meaning or reason for this life took me to years of meditation, leaving my body hundreds of times, traveling through all the different "densities" or dimensions and up to the Source. I suppose I could easily think that these experiences have shown me "truth", and at times I can fall into thinking that it is like this for every soul in the creation. When I become the Source I participate in the creation and see and feel and know that I am all souls, that I am living all lives that have ever been lived. Can I prove any of this? Of course not...nor would I even care to attempt to prove anything to anyone. It would be futile since nothing can actually be proved. How can you prove a creation, an illusion....and who is there to prove anything TO?

I call the Source the All and None. In my experience it is Nothing AND Everything at the same time....concurrently. What another would feel when merging with and becoming the Source or how they would interpret that in order to tell other separated parts of themselves here in this density is not something I know, nor do I care. Our interpretations here are condensed down into the slow vibratory frequency of thought and expression of those thoughts....words. Thoughts and words are a miniscule part of an experience. I would like to tell you how blissful, how loving and glorious becoming aware of being the Source is....but who truly understands what "love" is unless they have experienced it? Depending on which density we are presently aware of inhabiting...love is felt and understood differently.

There is no truth, there are only preferences, choices. It's like being in a candy store and someone telling me that mars bars are the best. But I like chocolate bars! We're in a candy store and we each get to choose our own candy...and our tastes change along the way. Our perspectives change.

Since I (we) have lived all the lives that have ever or will ever be lived in time and in timelessness, we can occasionally have strong memories of what seems to be a previous life....yes, it is a "previous" and concurrent life. It is concurrent because time is an illusion. "Previous" is only a perspective in time. This is not proof of "reincarnation", at least not in the way most of us understand or think of as reincarnation. I have had several experiences that I can call past life experiences, but I understand that it is a life that all of us could recall. I have studied the children who recall past lives in detail and found them to be quite impressive. Yes, this was a life the child lived...since we all have lived all lives that have ever been lived. We are all one.

[Hervé]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
[...]

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

[...]

Whose memories, indeed?

I have attempted to address that fundamental question in this post:

A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the [ball of] yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…

If I understand it correctly, that "interface" is also what Inelia describes as the "Body Intelligence" (see this post).

One source I found that recounts an abduction from two, if not three, of the component perspectives is Truman Cash in one of his e-books (don't remember whether it's "The Programming of a Planet" or "Eye of Ra?"), that is:

One of Truman's recounts describes an abduction where there's a biological body at the wheel of a car, another body being abducted and worked on by the ETs and then someone witnessing the whole thing... all coming back together to swerve the car from running into the ditch.


My understanding is that the "zero-state" is the one witnessing the whole thing and also known as "YOU" the spirit/higher self/etc... The body being abducted, and the one being implanted with all sorts of false memories, post-hypnotic behaviours and beliefs, I take it as being the "body intelligence" or "interface" or "mind."

In that recount, hypothetically, the biological body recalls: rape, torture, biological samplings imprinted in its flesh (through "interface" actual experience impinging on body cells the same way as stigmata are generated); whereas "Mind" recalls this beautiful loving experience with beings of light and love... and "YOU"/"zero-state" goes: "... WTF?"

So... yeah... know thyself... but mainly, also know what's not "Thyself!"

[crested-duck]

Great OP and thread, good to see you back ROMANWYK ! Sincerely,Rob

[9eagle9]

Your right I don't have any patience with people. I thought everyone knew that. I can't teach anyone anything, if they are not willing to see beneath the surface bs.

I know who wants to do their work and who don't. For those who do I have all the plodding patience in the world.

For those who are willing to delve into veiled things, we'll just carry on and challenge and question everything that everyone else takes for granted.

If the belief systems challenged make others threatened maybe one day they will learn to detach from them, and not wrap their self idenity up in things that have nothing to do with them, but are what Nancy calls preferences.

I can't detach one's self identity for them so its up to them.

Posted by xbusymom (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Archetypical stories such as you have described have always been around.

come on lady you're the one who is some authority on the subject becaues your father has a phd in pyschology and you don't know about archetypes or archetypical stories or roles that are assumed by them?

Does JUNG ring a bell? No? Ask your father.

I already answered your question. The fact you can't understand the answer doesn't mean I didn't respond to it.

I am going to agree to disagree... because you simply can't resist slinging mud...

I said my father (who has a PHD in psychology) taught me to respect other's viewpoints about their realities...

I never said I was an authority on this issue... quite the contrary, I was asking for information from you … and it seems you cant give it to me without continuing to be flipant and snooty about it.

and I guess that means you win , 9eagle9... I would rather bow out of the discussion than to fight with someone that has no patience with people that arent' up to their “level of intelligence” ... it could have been a good opportunity (for you ) to TEACH someone (ME) something...

Sorry to everyone else in this thread.

[another bob]

Using the mind to look for reality is delusion. Not using the mind to look for reality is awareness. The mind that wants to free itself from all programs is itself a program, just as that which wants to hack the virus is itself an expression of the virus.

There is no “original” thought, nor is there any such thing as an “original” deed. Every thought that any being could possibly entertain has already been thought innumerable times over, and likewise any action. Just so, there are innumerable forums just like this, with threads just like this, and imaginary beings reading, and arguing yes or no to propositions in posts just like this. This universe of phenomena is a grain of sand on an infinite beach, and this beach is but a grain of sand in the totality of manifestation, which is itself of the same nature as last night’s dream.

Furthermore, in this so-called realm of apparent phenomena, there is nothing but delusion, which itself is miraculously empty of any inherent self-nature. Upon careful inspection, some other phenomena apart from the delusion of human beings cannot be supposed nor demonstrated. Because that is so, all apparent phenomena are only delusions. There is no truth, only dreaming.

Moreover, it cannot be proven that having removed delusion there is no delusion. Because delusion is pure by nature, it is self-illuminating. Because that is so, all phenomena are actually perfect props in the dreamy projection of mind called self and world. Because that is so, phenomena appearing in various ways simply represent the synchronous opera of the phantom body and mind – the engaging delight of that which is dreaming all of this.

Likewise, even the apparent Awakened of the past, present, and future cannot transcend the complete purity of delusion, since it is nothing but a virtual reality, a non-binding, transient, and empty modification of consciousness itself, so when the fist is opened, what is there but empty air?

Except in the degree of sense of humor, a difference between ordinary deluded beings and the so-called Awakened cannot be distinguished by the nature of phenomena. Just as the causes and results of a dream appear individually, under the power of complete imputation, determined by one’s angle of vision, filters, memory associations, preferences, and so forth, the individual appearances of the intellect are only flowers planted in the air, consisting of nothing enduring or substantial. What fun!

The full appreciation of this fact grants one nothing, nor does any enlightenment that might accompany its realization. Why? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that there is nobody there in the first place? Otherwise, I don’t know. All I do know is, if one is really going to live in this kind of recognition, then they must be ready and willing to embrace everything without limitations, and yet cling to none of it. Or not -- suit yourself.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eaaYQL7DTO0

[ROMANWKT]

Well you have all been very busy. I dont know if we have moved on any, I am late from work and wont be able to participate in the brawl, but we are pointing at the right direction.

Hi Bob nice to see your still wise and active.

If we are to move on in some understanding of first this realm and our reality, let start from a possible beginning, and then move right up to belief and truth.

Epic of Atrahasis 2450 BCE


1.
When the gods instead of man

2.
Did the work, bore the loads,

3.
The gods' load was too great,

4.
The work too hard, the punishment too much,

5.
The great Anunnaki made the Igigi (“evil minded ones ”)

6.
Carry the workload sevenfold.

7.
Anu their father was king,

8.
Their counselor warrior Ellil,

9.
Their Chamberlain was Ninurta,

10.
Their canal-controller Ennugi.

11.
They took the box of lots

12.
Cast the lots; the gods made the division.

13.
Anu went up to the sky,

14.
And Ellil took the earth for his people.

15.
The bolt which bars the sea

16.
Was assigned to far-sighted Enki.

17.
When Anu had gone up to the sky,

18.
And the gods of the Apsu had gone below,

19.
The Annunaki of the sky

20.
Made the Igigi ("evil minded ones " ) bear the workload.

21.
The gods had to dig out canals,

22.
Had to clear channels, the lifelines of the land.

23.
The gods dug out the Tigris river

24.
And then dug out the Euphrates.

25.
...in the deep
26.
they set up

27.
...the Apsu
28.
...of the land
29.
...inside it
30.
...raised its top
31.
...of all the mountains
32.
They were counting the years of loads

33.
...the great marsh,
34.
They were counting the years of loads.

35.
For 3,600 years they bore the excess,

36.
Hard work, night and day.

37.
They groaned and blamed each other,
38.
Grumbled over the masses of excavated soil:

39.
Let us confront our Warden

40.
And get him to relieve us of our hard work!

41.
Come, let us carry the Lord
42.
The guard of the [prisoner] gods, the warrior from his dwelling.



1.
Then [Kingu] made his voice heard
2.
And spoke to the gods, his brothers:
3.
Come, let us carry
4.
The guard of the [prisoner] gods, the warrior, from his dwelling.

5.
Come, let us carry Ellil,
6.
The guard of the [prisoner] gods, the warrior, from his dwelling.

7.
Now, cry battle!
8.
Let us mix fight with battle!
9.
The gods listened to his speech,
10.
Set fire to their tools,
11.
Put aside their spades for fire,
12.
Their loads for the fire-god.
13.
They flared up.
14.
When they reached the gate of warrior Ellil's dwelling,
15.
It was night, the middle watch,
16.
Ekur was surrounded, Ellil had not realized.

17.
Yet Kalkal was attentive, and had it closed,

18.
He held the lock and watched the gate.

19.
Kalkal roused Nusku.

20.
They listened to the noise of the Igigi.

21.
Then Nusku roused his master,
22.
Made him get out of bed:
23.
My lord, your house is surrounded,
24.
A rabble is running around your door!
25.
Ellil, your house is surrounded,
26.
A rabble is running around your door!

27.
Ellil had weapons brought to his dwelling.

28.
Ellil made his voice heard

29.
And spoke to the vizier Nusku,
30.
Nusku, bar your door,
31.
Take up your weapons and stand in front of me.

32.
Nusku barred his door
33.
Took up his weapons and stood in front of Ellil.

34.
Nusku made his voice heard

35.
And spoke to the warrior Ellil,

36.
'O my lord, your face is sallow as Tamarisk!

37.
Why do you fear your own sons?

38.
'O Ellil, you face is sallow as Tamarisk!

39.
Why do you fear your own sons?

40.
Send for Anu to be brought down to you

41.
Have Enki fetched into your presence.



Chapter 3

1.
He sent for Anu to be brought down to him,

2.
Enki was fetched into his presence,

3.
Anu, king of the sky was present,

4.
Enki, king of the Apsu attended.

5.
The great Anunnaki were present.
6.
Ellil got up and the case was put.

7.
Ellil made his voice heard

8.
And spoke to the great gods:

9.
Is it against me that they have risen?

10.
Shall I do battle...?

11.
What did I see with my own eyes?

12.
A rabble was running around my door!

13.
Anu made his voice heard

14.
And spoke to the warrior Ellil

15.
Let Nusku go out
16.
And find out the word of the Igigi Who have surrounded your door.

17.
A command...
18.
To...
19.
Ellil made his voice heard
20.
And spoke to the vizier Nusku,
21.
Nusku, open your door,
22.
Take up your weapons and stand before me!

23.
In the assembly of all the gods,

24.
Bow, then stand and tell them,
25.
Your father Anu,
26.
Your guard, warrior Ellil,
27.
Your warden Ninurta
28.
And your canal-controller Ennugi
29.
Have sent me to say,
30.
Who is in charge of the rabble?
31.
Who is in charge of the fighting?
32.
Who declared war?
33.
Who ran to the door of Ellil?
34.
Nusku opened his door,
35.
Took up his weapons, went from Ellil

36.
In the assembly of all the gods

37.
He bowed, then stood and told the message.

38.
Your father Anu,
39.
Your guard warrior Ellil,
40.
Your warden Ninurta,
41.
And your canal controller Ennugi
42.
Have sent me to say
43.
Who is in charge of the rabble?
44.
Who is in charge of the fighting?
45.
Who declared war?
46.
Who ran to the door of Ellil?
47.
Ellil...
48.
Every single one of us declared war!
49.
We have put a stop to the digging.

50.
The load is excessive, it is killing us!

51.
Our work is too hard, the trouble too much!

52.
So every single one of us gods

53.
Has agreed to complain to Ellil

54.
Nusku took his weapons

55.
Went and returned to Ellil

56.
My lord, you sent me to...
57.
I went...
58.
I explained...
59.
Saying every single one of us gods
60.
Declared war
61.
We have put a stop to the digging.

62.
The load is excessive, it is killing us!

63.
Our work is too hard, the trouble too much,

64.
So every single one of us gods

65.
Has agreed to complain to Ellil!

66.
Ellil listened to that speech.

67.
His tears flowed.

68.
Ellil spoke guardedly,

69.
Addressed the warrior Anu,

70.
Noble one, take a decree

71.
With you to the sky, show your strength-

72.
While the Anunnaki are sitting before you

73.
Call up one god and let them cast him for destruction



1.
Anu made his voice heard
2.
And spoke to the gods his brothers,
3.
What are we complaining of?
4.
Their work was indeed too hard, their punishment was too much.

5.
Every day the Earth resounded.

6.
The warning signal was loud enough, we kept hearing the noise.

7.
...do
8.
...tasks
9.
While the Anunnaki are sitting before you

10.
And while Belet-Ili the womb goddess is present,

11.
Call up one and cast him for destruction!

12.
Anu made his voice heard and spoke to Nusku

13.
Nusku, open your door, take up your weapons,

14.
Bow in the assembly of the great gods, then stand

15.
And tell them...

16.
Your father Anu, your guard warrior Ellil,

17.
Your warden Ninurta and your canal controller Ennugi

18.
Have sent me to say

19.
Who is in charge of the rabble? Who will be in charge of battle?

20.
Which god started the war?

21.
A rabble was running around my door!

22.
When Nusku heard this,
23.
He took up his weapons,
24.
Bowed in the assembly of the great gods, then stood

25.
And told them

26.
Your father Anu, your guard warrior Ellil,

27.
Your warden Ninurta and your canal controller Ennugi

28.
Have sent me to say,

29.
Who is in charge of the rabble? Who is in charge of the fighting?

30.
Which god started the war?

31.
A rabble was running around Ellil's door!

32.
Ea made his voice heard
33.
And spoke to the gods his brothers,

34.
Why are we blaming them?

35.
Their work was too hard, their pubishment was too much.

36.
Every day the earth resounded.

37.
The warning signal was loud enough, we kept hearing the noise.

38.
There is...

39.
Belet-ili the womb goddess is present-

40.
Let her create a mortal man

41.
So that he may bear the yoke...

42.
So that he may bear the yoke, the work of Ellil,

43.
Let man bear the load of the gods!

44.
...
45.
Belet-ili the womb goddess is present,

46.
Let the womb goddess create offspring,

47.
And let them bear the load of the gods!


1.
They called up the goddess, asked
2.
The midwife of the gods, wise Mami,

3.
You are the womb-goddess, to be the creator of Mankind!

4.
Create a mortal, that he may bear the yoke!

5.
Let him bear the yoke, the work of Ellil

6.
Let him bear the load of the [prisoner] gods!

7.
Nintu made her voice heard
8.
And spoke to the great gods,
9.
On the first, seventh, and fifteenth of the month

10.
I shall make a purification by washing.

11.
Then one god should be slaughtered.

12.
And the gods can be purified by immersion.

13.
Nintu shall mix the clay

14.
With his flesh and blood.

15.
Then a god and a man

16.
Will be mixed together in clay.

17.
Let us hear the drumbeat forever after,

18.
Let a ghost come into existence from the god's flesh,

19.
Let her proclaim it as her living sign,

20.
And let the ghost exist so as not to forget the slain god.

21.
They answered yes in the assembly,

22.
The great Anunnaki who assign the fates

23.
On the first, seventh, and fifteenth of the month

24.
He made a purification by washing.

25.
Geshtu-E, a god who had intelligence,

26.
They slaughtered in their assembly.

27.
Nintu mixed clay
28.
with his flesh and blood.
29.
They heard the drumbeat forever after.

30.
A ghost came into existence from the god's flesh,

31.
and she proclaimed it as his living sign.

32.
The ghost existed so as not to forget the slain god.

33.
After she had mixed that clay,

34.
She called up the Anunnaki, the great gods.

35.
The Igigi, the great [prisoner] gods,

36.
Spat spittle upon the clay

37.
Mami made her voice heard

38.
And spoke to the great gods,
39.
I have carried out perfectly

40.
The work that you ordered of me.

41.
You have slaughtered a god together with his intelligence.

42.
I have relieved you of your hard work,

43.
I have imposed your load on man.

44.
You have bestowed noise on man,

45.
You have bestowed noise on mankind.

46.
I have undone the chains of imprisonment and granted freedom.

47.
They listened to the speech of hers,

48.
And were freed from anxiety, and kissed her feet:

49.
We used to call you Mami,

50.
But now your name shall be Mistress of All Gods.



1.
Far sighted Enki and wise Mami

2.
Went into the room of fate.

3.
The womb-goddesses were assembled.

4.
He trod the clay in her presence;

5.
She kept reciting an incantation,

6.
For Enki, staying in her presence, made her recite it

7.
When she had finished her incantation,

8.
She pinched off fourteen pieces of clay,

9.
And set seven pieces on the right,

10.
Seven on the left.

11.
Between them she put down a mud brick.

12.
She made use of a reed, opened it to cut the umbilical cord,

13.
Called up the wise and knowledgeable

14.
Womb goddesses, seven and seven.

15.
Seven created males,

16.
Seven created females,

17.
For the womb goddess is creator of fate.

18.
He...them two by two,

19.
...them two by two in her presence.

20.
Mami made these rules for people:

21.
In the house of a woman who is giving birth

22.
The mud brick shall be put down for seven days.

23.
Belet-ili, wise Mami shall be honored.

24.
The midwife shall rejoice in the house of the woman who gives birth

25.
And when the woman gives birth to the baby,

26.
The mother of the baby shall sever herself.

27.
A man to a girl...

28.
...her bosom

29.
A beard can be seen

30.
On a young man's cheek.

31.
In gardens and waysides

32.
A wife and her husband choose each other.

33.
The womb goddesses were assembled

34.
And Nintu was present. They counted the months,

35.
Called up the Tenth month as the term of fates.

36.
When the Tenth month came,

37.
She slipped in a staff and opened the womb.

38.
Her face was glad and joyful.

39.
She covered her head,

40.
Performed the midwifery,

41.
Put on her belt, said a blessing.

42.
She made a drawing in flour and put down a mud brick:

43.
I myself created it, my hands made it.

44.
The midwife shall rejoice in the house of the qadistu-priestess.

45.
Whenever a woman gives birth

46.
And the baby's mother severs herself,

47.
The mud brick shall be put down for nine days.

48.
Nintu the womb goddess shall be honored.

49.
She shall call their ...Mami

50.
She shall ... the womb goddess,

51.
Lay down the linen cloth.

52.
When the bed is laid out in their house,

53.
A wife and her husband shall choose each other.

54.
Inanna shall rejoice in the wife-husband relationship

55.
In the father-in-law's house.

56.
Celebration shall last for nine days,

57.
And they shall call Inanna Ishhara.

58.
On the fifteenth day, the fixed time of fate

59.
She shall call...



1.
A man...
2.
A man...
3.
The son to his father...
4.
They sat and...
5.
He was carrying...
6.
He saw...
7.
Ellil...

8.
They took hold of...
9.
Made new picks and spades,
10.
Made big canals,
11.
To feed people and sustain the gods.
12.
600 years, less than 600, passed,
13.
And the country was as noisy as a bellowing bull.

14.
The god grew restless at their racket,

15.
Ellil had to listen to their noise.

16.
He addressed the great gods,

17.
The noise of mankind has become too much,

18.
I am losing sleep over their racket.

19.
Give the order that suruppu-disease shall break out,

20.
Now there was one Atrahasis
21.
Whose ear was open to his god Enki.

22.
He would speak with his god

23.
And his god would speak with him.

24.
Atrahasis made his voice heard

25.
And spoke to his lord,

26.
How long will the gods make us suffer?

27.
Will they make us suffer illness forever?

28.
Enki made his voice heard

29.
And spoke to his servant:

30.
Call the elders, the senior men!

31.
Start an uprising in your own house,

32.
Let the heralds proclaim...

33.
Let them make a loud noise in the land:

34.
Do not revere your gods,

35.
Do not pray to your goddesses,

36.
But search out the door of Namtara.

37.
Bring as baked loaf into his presence.

38.
May the flour offerings reach him.

39.
May he be shamed by the presents

40.
And wipe away his hand.

41.
Atrahasis took the order,

42.
Gathered the elders to his door.

43.
Atrahasis made his voice heard

44.
And spoke to the elders:

45.
I have called the elders, the senior men!

46.
Start an uprising in your own house,

47.
Let the heralds proclaim...

48.
Let them make a loud noise in the land:

49.
Do not revere your gods,

50.
Do not pray to your goddesses,

51.
But search out the door of Namtara.

52.
Bring as baked loaf into his presence.

53.
May the flour offerings reach him.

54.
May he be shamed by the presents

55.
And wipe away his hand.

56.
The elders listened to his speech;

57.
They built a temple for Namtara in the city.

58.
Heralds proclaimed...

59.
They made a loud noise in the land.

60.
They did not revere their god,

61.
they did not pray to their goddess,

62.
But searched out the door of Namtara,

63.
Brought a baked loaf into his presence

64.
The flour offerings reached him.

65.
And he was shamed by the presents.

66.
And wiped away his hand.

67.
The suruppu-disease left them.

68.
The gods went back to their regular offerings.




Ancient Texts

courtesy of evil-one.org

Thank you for all your contributions,

regards
roman

I may not be free to participate until next weekend.

[ROMANWKT]

I see that I have baffled everybody to a full stop, goooood, there is a reason, and its the oldest text that I could find that I know off, we will see where I intend to go with this soon, I am very busy at work.

regards to all as always, I put Bill instead of BOB which I have corrected.

roman

[crested-duck]

If the old text raised a curious sensation in your mind, more great stuff hidden away can be found here :-http://one-evil.org/texts_ancient/magisterium/magisterium_01/magisterium_01_0010.htm

[9eagle9]

One still has the sorting out process between cellular memory and what one is picking up from the collective consciousness.

There are a number of things I would not wish removed from my cellular memory which is my balance. Actually I don't care if that belongs to something else or not...lol. I'm owning it now , he he.

Then again there are a number of things I have removed from cellular memory that actually did belong to me, which promoted actual physical changes.

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
[...]

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

[...]

Whose memories, indeed?

I have attempted to address that fundamental question in this post:

A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the [ball of] yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…

If I understand it correctly, that "interface" is also what Inelia describes as the "Body Intelligence" (see this post).

One source I found that recounts an abduction from two, if not three, of the component perspectives is Truman Cash in one of his e-books (don't remember whether it's "The Programming of a Planet" or "Eye of Ra?"), that is:

One of Truman's recounts describes an abduction where there's a biological body at the wheel of a car, another body being abducted and worked on by the ETs and then someone witnessing the whole thing... all coming back together to swerve the car from running into the ditch.


My understanding is that the "zero-state" is the one witnessing the whole thing and also known as "YOU" the spirit/higher self/etc... The body being abducted, and the one being implanted with all sorts of false memories, post-hypnotic behaviours and beliefs, I take it as being the "body intelligence" or "interface" or "mind."

In that recount, hypothetically, the biological body recalls: rape, torture, biological samplings imprinted in its flesh (through "interface" actual experience impinging on body cells the same way as stigmata are generated); whereas "Mind" recalls this beautiful loving experience with beings of light and love... and "YOU"/"zero-state" goes: "... WTF?"

So... yeah... know thyself... but mainly, also know what's not "Thyself!"

[Chester]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
[...]

I have had a rather innocuous seeming memory of taking swimming lessons at the age of eight. I can recall the pool, the instructor and all sorts of details I have held this memory my entire life but........ The problem is ...I never had swimming lessons. Obviously through recall I am experiencing this (at least through memory) but in reality I didn't. So where did it come from.

If there is no past life for me then it must come from someplace external of me..which isn't me.

My intention is to demonstrate that if you have something that belongs to you that is acceptable. If you have something that may not belong to you is it wise to keep re-entrenching in it and making some validity and meaning around it.

[...]

Whose memories, indeed?

I have attempted to address that fundamental question in this post:

A few words on these different memory lines…

I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

“The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the [ball of] yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…

If I understand it correctly, that "interface" is also what Inelia describes as the "Body Intelligence" (see this post).

One source I found that recounts an abduction from two, if not three, of the component perspectives is Truman Cash in one of his e-books (don't remember whether it's "The Programming of a Planet" or "Eye of Ra?"), that is:

One of Truman's recounts describes an abduction where there's a biological body at the wheel of a car, another body being abducted and worked on by the ETs and then someone witnessing the whole thing... all coming back together to swerve the car from running into the ditch.


My understanding is that the "zero-state" is the one witnessing the whole thing and also known as "YOU" the spirit/higher self/etc... The body being abducted, and the one being implanted with all sorts of false memories, post-hypnotic behaviours and beliefs, I take it as being the "body intelligence" or "interface" or "mind."

In that recount, hypothetically, the biological body recalls: rape, torture, biological samplings imprinted in its flesh (through "interface" actual experience impinging on body cells the same way as stigmata are generated); whereas "Mind" recalls this beautiful loving experience with beings of light and love... and "YOU"/"zero-state" goes: "... WTF?"

So... yeah... know thyself... but mainly, also know what's not "Thyself!"

You nailed it - (at least this seems "true" to me). My only true state is the one that is aware (as DI says - Infinite Awareness) - anytime I drop down into the past (including "past lives") I may be giving myself over to some other entity's attempt at influencing my own sovereign mind.

All I really am is the me that I am in the now moment - anything else I think I am is either my own mental masturbation and/or thoughts I am allowing to enter me from an outside entity which may or may not have my best interests in mind... If I do allow the thought forms from outside entities, I better be extremely discerning... this is how I handle this stuff now because I am finally aware as to how much I have allowed myself to be influenced by archontic forces from their various levels of being.