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Thread: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    It's dead...Good
    Last edited by Bryston; 15th May 2013 at 14:23.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    A bottom feeding leach pretending to be human. Nothing more.
    Last edited by Bryston; 15th May 2013 at 14:23.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Hey Bryston,

    None of your attachments are working mate.

    Raf.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    thanks RMorgan
    Last edited by Bryston; 15th May 2013 at 14:28.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Still not working!!!
    I don't necessarily believe what I think,
    neither do I always think what I believe

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Thanks InCiDer

    They were just standard pictures of the vile tick itself in various promotional poses. Talking to tomatoes, holding E-meters, and the like. Nothing major.

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  10. Link to Post #47
    Borden
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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    'Dianetics' seemed pretty interesting. I admit I only skimmed it. That thing Hubbard allegedly did in the desert with Parsons (?) sounded pretty dodgy. I was once approached by a Scientologist on a street, and his manner with me almost made me knock him out. Tom Cruise seems like a very nice chap. John Travolta is in my opinion highly over-rated as an actor (but he was great in Grease). That Scientologist the BBC guy did a documentary about was so appalling that I wasn't sure hanging, drawing, quartering him and putting his remains (salted) to the four corners of the earth would have even shut him up satisfactorily. I don't really believe the bit about the guy being chained to an asteroid for a million years. Or something.

    Tom Cruise really does seem like a splendid fellow though.

    Fair and balanced.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    I agree with major elements of what you say Borden. But when it comes to this kind of insanity my generosity of spirit will not extend to complete fairness, and balance. These people who follow Scientology are supportive to the point of mindless complacency. As are the other major religious institutional memebers on this planet. Enough is enough, its time we stopped feeding these cruel groups.

    How?
    I haven't got a clue, but I know sickness when I see it.


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    Borden
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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Oh God, man ... don't tell me my irreverence is irrelevant or I might experience a dark apotheosis and enslave you all under the banner of the new global age of Borden! It would be darkly comic. The military uniforms would be great though, trust me.

    I don't know enough about Scientology to really have a fair and balanced opinion ... I was being silly. I do however agree with you fully about the other organised religions. Enslavers and liars. As for Scientology, I've been of the opinion that since I don't know that much about it, maybe I shouldn't judge it by some of the rabid, unpleasant practitioners I've seen. Because, and I'm honestly not being sarcastic here ... Tom Cruise seems so bloody nice! Do you think he would have been a good bloke whatever religion he'd chosen? Maybe.

    As for how we rid ourselves of these cruel groups ... I'm of the opinion that we can't. You can lead a horse to water, etc. YOU can rid your mind of that level of cruelty and horror, sure, and I can too ... but those who buy it have bought it. It's up to them to un-buy it. If they can't, then they present themselves to devolution or natural selection. What can you do?

    By the way, I just wanted to let you know that as a child I lived in Harpenden, where Eric Morecambe lived. Just a few weeks before he died I saw him in town test driving a new car. Ah well, I'm sure the irony didn't escape him on the other side.

    p.s I'm pretty sure it was a Jag
    Last edited by Borden; 15th May 2013 at 15:30.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Thanks Borden for correcting my over emotive tone in reaction to your post. I can't see how my words intimate your irreverence's irrelevance. Truth is I don't have intimate experience of scientology myself. There does appear to be a high correlation on the inter-web between various groupings of belief, and less than beneficial behavior. Also I think your dark epotheosis would have a uniquley thanatoptic irony, and I would gladly wear high heeled jack boots in the name of Bordianity. I can see Alan Sugar being force fed mint tulips to the point of desperation, live on national television. For crimes against facial hair, and the social order.

    As to how we rid ourselves of these cruel groups. I agree it doesn't look like we'll grow out of it any time soon. Maybe your right, maybe they are submitting themselves to some sort of devotional or natural selection.

    Maybe some sort of stratified reclassification of humanity is required. Thus enabling a healthier appropriation of human resources to various tasks.

    As for Tom cruise being a nice bloke in-spite of his religion. No information on it besides the feeling of annoyance he brings to me as a performer, so fair play.

    Praise Be to the All Mighty Morecambe

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    Borden
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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Right, vis a vis the Tom Cruise issue, that's the only thing I really disagree with you on. The only circumstances under which I can see him becoming tiresome involve him being my butler, and insisting on high-fiving me at six am every morning. Other than that I'm sure he is a lovely.

    On the Alan Sugar issue, I don't think you have thought it through well enough. He seems to go out of his way to make himself look like an angry testicle, and on a man whose psychological short-comings make thin air look obfuscatory and oblique this is clearly a move designed to showcase his quintessential emptiness and horribleness to best effect. Surely we can come up with a more horrible punishment.

    If you would like to start a religion with me I am sure we would have much common ground. We will definitely give Morecambe avatar status.

    p.s. You made me look up 'thanatoptic', you bastard. And I'm still none the wiser.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)

    If you would like to start a religion with me I am sure we would have much common ground. We will definitely give Morecambe avatar status.
    It would be a great personal honour to be the first documented disciple in the anals of a Bordianity faith based organisation.

    May I suggest a deep meditative form of devotional iconoclasm. Proactively seeking the complete physical, and metaphysical destruction of any organisation, person, or idea through the mechanism of acidically ironic public displays of socially networked worship.

    And low the Book of Borden entered the hearts of all those who had the correct configuration of reptilian DNA, and superannuated long term guilt edged securities.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    I pray to Jabulon that you mean 'annals'.

    I will see your Morecambe and raise you a Barker. Let the geniuses fight it out.

    And I am a Nordic, so I'm not sure about the whole reptilian thing. We may have to give some episcological leeway. Don't worry, the uniforms will be great.

    Otherwise ... perfect. Let's milk the mammals!

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)
    Tom Cruise seems like a very nice chap.

    Tom Cruise really does seem like a splendid fellow though.

    Fair and balanced.
    Borden, you know, on the whole I tend to agree with a lot of things you say... but today you've taken the biscuit!!! Tom Cruise is a total n*b!!!!
    Last edited by Padmé; 15th May 2013 at 17:49.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    It looks like this thread is sufficiently off-topic that the irrelevancy of my post won't make a lot of difference one way or the other.

    Re Tom Cruise, who is perhaps not quite as nice a chap as some may think:


    And who may even be a tad weird, as this fellow implies...


    But to help everyone decide for themselves, here's Tom on Graham Norton's show:

    There's a discussion of Tom's manners by the viewers of that Youtube page, who I suspect must be British--manners, of course, being a major concern of the Brits.

    And may I say that the polite manner in which Borden and Bryston have conducted their discussion on a controversial subject may be taken as a wonderful example to all forum members ...

    (Welcome back to Borden, BTW)
    Am I sensing there may be a new Borden thread in store for us?
    With another British wit for him to engage with now, I look forward to the possibility.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)
    I pray to Jabulon that you mean 'annals'.!
    Forgive my instinctual stimulation of your graces recidivist Barkonion tendencies. It is my belief the use of effective chronological analising will ensure a secure incorruptible timeless message . After all even the mighty followers of Cathol have embarrassed the information age.

    May I suggest an immediate research program into adapted E-meter stem cell trouser lip transmission. All funding will of course be sourced from the newly opened Robert Runcie clearing house, and file sharing facility in Zurich.

    Research outcomes not withstanding, I believe an effective program of genital biometrics is essential in these formative stages.

    Abstinence, Intolerance, and Onanistic Clairvoyance should be the guiding principals of all the faithful.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Borden..Tom Cruise? Really?!!! I'm glad your back.
    Love is an inside job

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by RMorgan (here)
    Jamie is an active participant in anti-Scientology movements, and he obviously doesn´t have many good things to say about his great grandfather.
    If LRH was a family relative of mine, I might have some criticisms of him as well. I'm sure he was really hard to live with, for a large number of reasons. Tesla, Einstein and Royal Rife were probably equally difficult.

    But his work is a huge legacy of brilliance, and proper application of his techniques (note: proper application!) can yield transformational results, along with the occasional genuine miracle. That's more important than what his great-grandson thought of him.
    Hey Bill,

    Well, his great grandson depicts him as "the father of all conmen", as a cult leader who enslaved thousands of people, so I wouldn´t exactly call it "some criticism"...And he´s not the only one who accuses L.R.Hubbard of charlatanism; I´m sure you know that, though.

    Changing a family´s last name is not the result of "some criticism" as well, if you ask me...I can think of a few reasons which would force a family to do that; all of them very serious, mostly connected either to shame or fear.

    Honestly, even charlatans can encourage people to experience life changing experiences (Watch the Kumare movie for a perfect example of that); We all know how the mind can be powerful regarding self-suggestion, including placebo techniques. However, it doesn´t make a charlatan any better or brighter.

    Well, I´ll keep it short...I really don´t want to get involved in this discussion any further...

    Unbelievable; That´s all I can say. Seeing a scientologist preaching his nonsense around here is...well...surprising? And seeing you and the mods supporting it is something I didn´t expect at all. I thought you knew better than that...

    Raf.
    Good view point of looking for sheep clothed wolf. Some wolfs understand sheep instinct then act accordingly.
    Some wrong side woke ups use their early opened eyes to change the perception of rest for his own benefit.
    If some one claim that he/she is awakened and ask for extra power to fight pre-assumed enemy be stay away from those because enemy within them already.

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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    Seems appropo: (skip to 58 sec mark)



    p.s. Being from the states, I couldn't help but regard Cruise as my representative in this video (Onawah's video), and I'll admit here that I was quietly rooting for him...not to say anything particularly intelligent or funny, but to just not say anything too terribly embarrassing. If I could convince myself to believe he was being slightly ironic while claiming his house was large enough to accomodate that plaque, I would have awarded him a few points...but as it stands I think he was just answering it straight. When he shook Butler's hand and congratulated him on the porto potty dedication, I damn near orgasmed in relief - it was well played...for him anyway.



    A little long, but worth it if you have the time:

    Last edited by bruno dante; 16th May 2013 at 15:27.

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    Nepal Avalon Member InCiDeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Church of Scientology - a cult of abuse

    For the sake of balance in this spaceship Avalon, I felt following information was necessary:


    Monica Pignotti an OT III and full-fledged Flag Class VI auditor speaks about Hubbards teachings:

    Quote By the time I discovered the truth about Scientology, it was too late; I was so indoctrinated at that point, it was unthinkable for me to ever conceive of leaving. Wanting to leave, I had been told, meant that I had crimes against the groups and thus, humanity.

    If I left, I believed I would be doomed to a spiritual death and stay in the trap of the planet earth forever -- a fate I thought was worse than anything that could ever happen to me within the cult. I became an unwitting prisoner of a totalistic environment. I was a victim.
    Source
    Blaming the victim


    Quote My name is Monica Pignotti. I was involved in the Church of Scientology from December, 1970 to August, 1976. From on or about February, 1973 to August, 1976, I was a member of the Sea Organization, the elite inner-circle of Scientology.

    From May 1973 to October 1975 I lived aboard the Flagship Apollo, which was the home of L. Ron Hubbard, his wife Mary Sue Hubbard and his four children. After leaving Flag in October 1975 when the ship was sold, I lived and worked on staff at the land base at the Fort Harrison Hotel in Clearwater, Florida until May, 1976 when I was transferred to Los Angeles where I was on staff until I left in August, 1976.(...)

    (...)I was unaware at the time that every time I did TR-O, I was going into a hypnotic trance state. I only realized this years later, after leaving the group, when I read about hypnosis and experienced a trance state from a legitimate psychologist who did hypnosis on me. The state I was in then was identical to the state I was in when I did TR-O.

    TRs are done regularly and often by Scientologists on all levels. Pretty soon, for me, just walking into the courseroom induced a trance state in me. Hubbard claimed to be vehemently against hypnosis, but, nevertheless, this is what I experienced.

    Being in this trance state made me extremely vulnerable to the material I was reading, which basically stated that Scientology is the only road to total freedom, that we were in a labyrinth as citizens of the planet earth and the only way out of this "trap" was through Scientology. A very dreary picture was being painted of the world outside of Scientology, which was referred to as the wog world.(...)
    Source/read more


    Quote Mind Control Techniques -- The Early Months

    (...)My father's intervention was unsuccessful because, even in the first few months, mind control techniques were being used on me that I wasn't aware of. Here are some of the methods of indoctrination that were being used on me.


    Loaded Language

    As a newcomer, I was introduced to a whole new language -- the "nomenclature of Scientology", as Hubbard liked to call it. Here are a few terms or phrases that I learned that were used to manipulate me and others:


    "Q&A"

    Defined as the failure to complete a cycle of action, which means a failure to finish something started. This was expanded to mean any questioning of an order given by someone senior to the person or any expression of disagreement. This was a device used to get people to follow orders given to them, no matter how ridiculous.

    For example, students on the Class VIII auditor's course on Flag were ordered to throw their fellow students overboard for auditing errors. If anyone dared to question this order, by perhaps, pointing out that Hubbard had once said he did not believe in punishment, that person would be told, "Don't Q&A. Just do it." In addition, that person would also have been overboarded for his Q&A.

    A person who Q&As is a person, in the eyes of a Scientologist, who questions the intentions of Hubbard. Anybody who Q&As with an order is thought to be a weak person who isn't capable of completing a "cycle of action." The fact that the order might be quite ridiculous or irrational is never considered.


    "Make it go right"

    is a phrase that is used in Scientology, ad nauseum. Hubbard had said that "The supreme test of a thetan is the ability to make things go right." (Thetan is the Scientology term for spirit.) This statement was used as an excuse and justification for throwing people into the most horrendous situations imaginable.

    For example, in the Sea Org, a person could have all his privileges taken away, be stripped of his rank and thrown on the RPF and told by a senior, "Make it go right!" In the late 1960s, when Hubbard first created the Sea Org, people were assigned duties of seamanship that they had no training for or experience in, put into the middle of storms and told to "make it go right."


    "Suppressive Person" or "SP"

    An SP is a person who is against Scientology, especially someone who speaks out against Scientology or publicly criticizes it. Sometimes even Scientologists in high positions who were trying their best to be ideal Scientologists were declared SP, for some imagined transgression, at the whim of LRH.

    If a person is in Scientology and then leaves, that person is automatically declared suppressive. SPs are barred from receiving auditing, taking Scientology courses or speaking to any Scientologist in good standing. To a Scientotogist, being declared SP is worse than a death sentence.


    Hubbard wrote a bulletin called The Anti-Social Personality. This is must reading for any parent, friend or exit counsellor because it describes, in detail, what an SP is in the eyes of a Scientologist and anyone attempting an intervention would certainly be considered an SP. According to Hubbard, the SP has, at an earlier time (probably in a past life), committed a crime of great magnitude against humanity.

    This caused other people to heavily attack him. The SP is "stuck" in that incident and is continually acting it out, lashing out at anyone who is doing good (the good, of course, being Scientology!. He goes on to say that an SP might appear to be a very sweet, kind person, but underneath this veneer, he/she is a wretched tortured soul who wants nothing but to destroy everyone around him. There is no hope or salvation for such a person.

    The Scientologist in good standing is expected to "handle" or disconnect from any SP he/she happens to be connected with. In the case of someone who has left Scientology, the order is always to disconnect. There were times, in Scientology where children were made to disconnect from their parents if they got overly critical of Scientology and couldn't be "handled", but this practice was later discontinued because Hubbard said he had developed the "tech" to handle people who were connected to SPs. These people are known as "PTS", or Potential Trouble Sources, because of their connection to an SP. In actuality, I think this policy of disconnection from parents was discontinued because it created very bad PR for Scientology.


    "Overts/Withholds" or "O/Ws"

    With the O/W phenomenon, Hubbard brilliantly managed to incorporate three out of the eight criteria for mind control described by Robert J. Lifton that are used by cults. This is not only part of the loaded language of Scientology, but is also the main thought stopping technique used by Scientologists and makes use of the confessional as a way to control and manipulate people.

    According to Hubbard, anyone who is critical of Scientology, a Scientologist in good standing, or wanting to leave Scientology has undisclosed "crimes" against it. An overt is any harmful act and a withhold is a failure to disclose that act.

    Scientologists are taught, practically from day one that if they have any critical thoughts about Scientology they must then ask themselves, "What overts have I committed against Scientology?" If someone is being audited and voices to the auditor a critical thought, the auditor must immediately ask, "What have you done?" What eventually happens is that the person stops thinking critical thoughts. We were told, as auditors, to get actual deeds because a critical thought is only a symptom of an underlying crime.

    Whenever a person wants to leave Scientology, the first action taken is to "pull their overts and withholds", meaning to get the person to disclose what harmful acts he has committed against the group and any other crimes the auditor can dig up. This is done by what is known as a security check, or "sec check", which is a series of questions designed to discover crimes.

    This procedure, like all auditing, is done with the aid of an E-Meter, a device that is supposed to measure electrical charge around the person, which is supposed to indicate what is going on in a person's mind. For example, a person might be asked, "Have you ever stolen anything from the organization?" and the needle on the E-meter falls. This is supposed to indicate that something is going on in the person's mind with regard to that question. The person might answer, "I stole a pencil once." The question is then repeated and if the needle reacts again, the person is expected to tell more. The question is repeated until it is clean, meaning the needle no longer reacts.

    In normal auditing, the auditor is expected to follow an auditor's code, which states that the auditor must not evaluate for the PC, invalidate him, or get angry with him in session. The code also states that the auditor must never reveal what a PC has said in session. This code is completely disregarded in a sec check and the auditor is expected to do whatever he has to to get the information.

    Anyone who wants to leave Scientology and voices such a desire is subjected to hours, sometimes even days and weeks of sec checking to find out what "crimes" they have committed against Scientology. Evidence in recent court cases has been introduced that indicates that information people had revealed, not only in sec checks, but in regular auditing has been used against Scientologists if they ever leave the group and try to make trouble.

    The information in their PC folders is used as blackmail against them. When I was an auditor, I was unaware that this was being done. I thought that the data told to me as an auditor that I recorded in the PC's folder was being kept strictly confidential.

    As an auditor, I employed this thought stopping technique on many of my PCs. If they ever voiced a critical thought against someone in the organization, I would immediately ask them, "What have you done?" Hubbard described the O/W phenomenon in detail, in a way that seemed to make sense to me at the time.

    According to Hubbard, this is how it goes: A person commits an overt against the group. Man, however, is basically good, even the most corrupt person. When a person commits an overt, because he is good, he feels that he has to separate himself from the group so he won't continue to harm them. This act of separation causes the person to be critical of the group so he can convince himself that the group is bad and thus, individuate (as Hubbard calls it) from it. Through his criticism of the group, the person then justifies the act of leaving, or "blowing".

    When a person stops his critical thoughts about Scientology by asking "What overts have I committed?", it takes his attention off what is wrong with Hubbard and Scientology and turns it back in on himself. This greatly hampers a person's ability to think rationally and objectively about Scientology because any critical thoughts are stopped dead in their tracks, no matter how legitimate.

    If you are ever involved in an intervention with someone who is steeped in the doctrine of Scientology, you can be certain that as doubts began to creep up from the information you give him, he will be asking himself, "What overts have I committed?", whether he voices this thought or not.


    "Dev-T" (short for "developed traffic")

    means unnecessary clutter that stands in the way or delays achieving a particular goal, especially a Scientology-oriented goal. I wanted to be an auditor and do all I could to help clear the planet. Going to the university was dev-t, so I quit.


    "Natter"

    is short for negative chatter, especially about Scientology. Any criticism about Scientology or the way the group is run, is considered natter, no matter how valid it is. I was often accused of nattering when I didn't like what was going on and spoke up.

    These are only a few of the many loaded Scientology terms. For a more complete list, I suggest looking at a Scientology dictionary and discussing with an ex-member how these terms are used to enslave people.(...)
    My Nine Lives in Scientology - whole story


    Quote On a more positive note, I have been able to move on from this smear campaign and have a happy, fulfilling life. I just returned from a wonderful trip to Italy.(...)
    Monica Pignotti Blogg
    Last edited by InCiDeR; 17th May 2013 at 08:11.
    I don't necessarily believe what I think,
    neither do I always think what I believe

  37. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to InCiDeR For This Post:

    bruno dante (17th May 2013), Bryston (17th May 2013), Christine (17th May 2013), Fred Steeves (17th May 2013), Padmé (17th May 2013), RMorgan (17th May 2013), Swanette (17th May 2013)

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