The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
I can certainly relate to suffering being self generated, but I can also understand fully how that is a tough pill to swallow. Leading up to my 'Gaia' experience (again, a highly pivotal and profound moment for me), I was personally experiencing a great deal of turmoil regarding both my direction in life and my relationships with others close to me. During the peak of these difficulties, I would have been quite closed to the notion that I was the central cause of my suffering and in fact it would have probably made me quite angry. It was a very difficult process to see that my ignorance and chiefly a rampant ego was really the primary source of it all. I had to lose quite a lot to learn that lesson.

Even now, I have an incurable illness which has effected me on a daily basis since I was 15. It was the source of a great deal of suffering to me for several years, and made it easy to see myself as a victim of circumstance. However I eventually came to the point where I was able to shift my perspective, and see it more as an obstacle, or a lesson. It became more of a challenge than a curse. It still effects me, but I no longer really see it as a sort of unnecessary suffering (if that makes sense).

Anyway, I had another vivid dream last night, though not nearly as long as the last one.

I was riding in a car with my sister and my mother (who was driving). As we went along, I saw numerous tornadoes forming around us, but mostly behind us. There were at least four of them. I then looked ahead of us, off to the passenger side, and saw a massive white cloud formation which had beautiful, vibrant rainbow colors around the sides. I pointed it out, and soon after it changed shape. It turned into a massive, sort-of goat-man that was laying parallel with the earth, facing down toward the ground. Its face somewhat resembled a Japanese Oni. Once it had assumed this new form it began flying in our direction. Though the transformation was very surprising, I didn't find it alarming save for the fact that it was so large, that we were the size of ants by comparison.

We soon stopped in a town I'd never seen before, at which point I wandered off on my own. I soon found myself in the alleyways of a neighborhood in which every house had apparently been recently painted, each with different shades of bright colors. I quickly found myself unable to navigate out of this neighborhood because every house seemed to be surrounded by tall, chain-link fences without gates. Again, this wasn't alarming to me, but it was somewhat frustrating.

Well, that's about all I can recall. As always, thanks for humoring me.

Curious. Let’s all not forget that what the Higher Mind attempts to show us in our dreams are the last things we want to admit are currently true in our lives.

But this is the fourth dream you’ve told us about in a row which I believe has featured something beautiful and spiritually elevated and profound. I wonder if this then means that in some way you’ve become used to coping with your chronic illness in such a way that you feel a wonderful life can’t be your lot in some sense.

In your dreams your Higher Mind evidently wants to keep reassuring you that you most certainly are more “beautiful” inside than you currently realize, more “spiritually” “elevated” for lack of better words, more free.

You’ve mentioned you believe this dream could possibly have some connection to your lifelong disease, and your long struggle to put that limitation aside inwardly. I believe the walled-off homes you saw represented something like closed minds. You say the closed-off walls didn’t bother you at all. So, their desire to invalidate where you are truly at didn’t bother you. Which of course would suggest you’ve now grown strong enough not to need reassurance from others regarding your own inner strength and worth. Maybe it could also mean they all (believed they) weren’t capable of showing anything better at the time than invalidating you.

I love the way your dreams all seem to be so relatively problem-free compared to other peoples’. It does indeed suggest to me that you might well have recent ET origins, from a world less filled with suffering.

[Eram]

Posted by rmauersr (here)

Posted by Orph (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE.

I'm with you Orph. I strongly suspect that consciousness and energy create form.

Inspiration...........thought.............form

When you build a shed in your garden, you first find inspiration, then you think about how you are going to do it, what tools and what construction supplies, then after you acquired them, you build the shed.
This is true for everything that is in form.

So everything that we can see as material form has been preceded by thought, which has been preceded by inspiration.

That part I understand, but I would like to get some explanation about the consciousness that is created through form.

Maybe it has to do with the challenges that form bring us (resisting it or accepting it) that brings forth consciousness?

[Finefeather]

Posted by Eram (here)

Posted by rmauersr (here)

Posted by Orph (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE.

I'm with you Orph. I strongly suspect that consciousness and energy create form.

Inspiration...........thought.............form

When you build a shed in your garden, you first find inspiration, then you think about how you are going to do it, what tools and what construction supplies, then after you acquired them, you build the shed.
This is true for everything that is in form.

So everything that we can see as material form has been preceded by thought, which has been preceded by inspiration.

That part I understand, but I would like to get some explanation about the consciousness that is created through form.

Maybe it has to do with the challenges that form bring us (resisting it or accepting it) that brings forth consciousness?

First I must say thank you for these posts because we seem to have uncovered the biggest problem on the block
For us to understand the many things we read and the stories we hear we always need to know something in order to make sense of some information. If we know very little we start to assume things and our imagination does the rest. In esoteric truths the minimum requirement is to know the basics...because without it we cannot determine the validity of much we read...and we will often spend days or years studying or believing someone's ramblings without even realising that it could all just be their imaginative subjective consciousness at work. For example...many on this forum have based their belief system on someone like Eve Lorgen or Dr Malanga, (I think is his name) of Horus Ra fame...Both of these peoples writings fail the esoteric basic logic test and make them invalid.
The last day or so, on this thread, has once again proven the necessity for some common ground when discussing esoteric principles.

Eram, what you have done is use your life experience and in doing this you have proved certain basic esoteric facts without even reading about it. This is the only way we can prove or validate the esoteric facts. There is not one thing we as humans can truly know without experiencing it objectively in our life. I have recently been harping about objectivity and subjectivity because of it's extreme importance in growth. No matter what you read or no matter how many OB's you have... they will always just be subjective experience...and unless you prove these objectively...in some dimension...they will forever be our own imaginative self created illusions or our personal mental creations. They might seem real but they are not. This is why we have so many different ideas about what exists in the emotional or 'astral' worlds.

So having said that lets look at the statements I made and try to prove them from basic life experience...so we no longer have to believe...but know what we experience.

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

and

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

First here are some basics:
Everything that is manifest has 3 aspects...and you can try to prove this wrong but you will fail.
These aspects cannot exist separately and each is a result of, or the cause of the other.
They are Motion, Matter and Consciousness. This is the trinity of life which is mentioned in many places. Some of us have come across this as Spirit, Body and Soul...and many other terms have been used, but they all mean the same thing. Nothing can exist in any dimension...and there are 49 dimensions in our cosmos, starting at 1 on the top as the highest...without these 3 aspects. We as humans are only objectively conscious in the bottom 3 levels...'solid', liquid and air...of the 49th level...the bottom one! So this should tell you just how 'unconscious' we actually are in comparison to where we are heading. To get this far has taken us billions of years...through lower kingdoms like the mineral kingdom, the plant kingdom, and the animal kingdom.

Motion is energy or thought or what some have come to understand as 'Spirit'. Energy is also sound. If you read IItzhak Bentov's book...Stalking the Wild Pendulum...somewhere on this thread...you will get a good idea that forms can be created by energy. You can also google it...if you need proof. The most primordial of these forms created in the cosmos is the primordial atom...which is the most basic and hence indestructible form. This form is level 1 in our cosmos. All other forms are involutions of this one basic primordial atom. This is what is called matter. So matter is created or formed from energy. We should know that there is no such thing as a solid. And so we can think about this as much as we like and we will realise that no thing can exist without motion or energy or sound or Spirit. The dead fish in your fridge is as alive with energy as the light which shines from your 10 buck torch...the only difference is the rate at which it is vibrating at...and the atomic structure, or configuration...in the great sea or carrier wave of life.

Matter in it's simplest form is the primordial atom...and in it's most elaborate form can be a BMW or a pair of shoes...or the shed Eram wants to build. To give you some idea of how far humans are to understanding what the atom is...science has only in the most extreme case struggled to identify the bottom level of an atom...they have 49 to go! And science will never discover them because we do not have the physical means to do this. They are only knowable in higher states of consciousness...and this brings us to consciousness.

Consciousness is only what it is because we are aware of something. Something exists because we can identify it...some not as good as others. So far, using our 5 senses, and having evolved for billions of years, has enabled us to identify and be aware of, and hence conscious of the things around us. If we had no senses at all there would be no consciousness and if we had all the 5 senses and nothing existed to interact with them then we would not be conscious of anything. Imagine yourself just newly created...floating in a pitch dark space with no sound and nothing around you to touch or smell or taste...nothing...no consciousness.

Everything we know is a result of interacting with objects, which are made out of matter, and if there is no objects there is nothing to interact with.
When we hear...we interact with sound and sound is waves of matter. Sound does not travel through a vacuum.
When we touch...we interact with matter which was created by energy.
When we see...we interact with matter which was created by energy.
When we taste...we interact with matter which was created by energy.
When we smell...we interact with matter which was created by energy.

So consciousness cannot exist without matter which was created from energy...and so matter is what causes us to be conscious...and so matter creates consciousness.

We can see the age old truth of the ancient writings which states that “In the beginning was the Word” The word is the sound or the energy or the Spirit, which ever you are comfortable with.

Take care and my love
Ray

I just added a few words in blue to the original to clarify...

[Freed Fox]

Thank you Trainee... as always I value your interpretations, and they always make a lot of sense to me, in the context of both my physical life and my internal landscape.

For those who disagree with TH's dream interpretations, that's unfortunate but okay. If you recall, he himself said that one should consider his or her own intuition as the highest authority in translating the symbolism and meaning behind dreams. We're all a bit different, after all, and there are countless variables and experiences we've had which can 'color' the dreams we experience, and one can't expect to share that entire context along with the dreams themselves. As I said though, and for whatever it's worth, the feedback he's given me has been spot on with the impression the dreams have given me. In a couple of instances I was left not knowing what to make of certain aspects of dreams, but after reflecting upon the interpretations here, they've often felt right or at least very, very close.

And Jake (also FWIW), I've enjoyed your posts here, as well as teradactyl's. I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).

[Chester]

Posted by Orph (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE.

Actually, both are true - understand this paradox and you graduate from elementary school.

[Jake]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
And Jake (also FWIW), I've enjoyed your posts here, as well as teradactyl's. I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).

There are several,, and I do!! thx for the heads up! I have been a part of, started and nurtured lots of discussions about OBE and astral projection!!! I don't have a problem with being singled out. (anymore!) I get it! Lots of cool stuff is happening here! My experiences have an ET element to them. Folks in this discussion will not readily embrace that, so I say goooddaayyyy!! I will still read, and sometimes slap my head with embarrassement... (just kidding TH,,, I love you all!!)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MuNvxH5kSKU

[Finefeather]

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by Orph (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE.

Actually, both are true - understand this paradox and you graduate from elementary school.

Here is the paradox...You must have flunked elementary school
Consciousness cannot create...it is thought that creates and thought is energy...and matter is energy in motion.
The result of a dual constituent creation cannot be created by the resultant creation.
Take care

[Finefeather]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).

I must say I am a little puzzled as to the reasoning here, after all is this thread not called:
"OBEs: What are they, how to make them happen,and where does the Higher Self fit in?"
So would Jake not be an asset in procedural issues...in connection to 'how to make them happen' with his experience?

A bit like the student throwing out the teacher when he hasn't learnt to count yet.

Take care
Ray

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
I guess you could always start your own thread, though, if you have a lot of procedural OBE advice to give (as that seemed to be what TH took issue with, rather than your posts themselves). As far as I am aware, there are currently only this thread and one other dealing with OBE. I don't think three threads would be overkill, considering there are about a dozen Edward Snowden threads (for example).

I must say I am a little puzzled as to the reasoning here, after all is this thread not called:
"OBEs: What are they, how to make them happen,and where does the Higher Self fit in?"
So would Jake not be an asset in procedural issues...in connection to 'how to make them happen' with his experience?

A bit like the student throwing out the teacher when he hasn't learnt to count yet.

Take care
Ray

Jake, I would love to hear more about your OBE and ET adventures, either here or another thread of your own.

I do understand that if one's views differ significantly from the thread initiator, it is sometimes more comfortable to post elsewhere. But I think contrasting perspective is very valuable. Doing that with respect is one of the reasons Project Avalon has attracted so many quality posters. Very valuable and informative.

The currently active OBE threads, this one and The Secret Of The Soul - and OBE are both interesting to me, yet flavored very differently.

[animovado]

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by Orph (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE.

Actually, both are true - understand this paradox and you graduate from elementary school.

Hi all!

We can try to separate things and thought forms,
or lets say all kind of matter, from consciousness.
Or we can try to separate the object from the picture we perceive of it.

But all joking aside, unfortunately we tried this already since ages.
And it doesn't work very well.

So maybe we can come to more clarity about subjectivity (or how we perceive the world) by reasoning you once brought up somewhere in this thread, TH?

Ray, in post #1026 you describe two categories of humans and i like to know,
where do you think yourself fits in?

TH, this morning i remembered a dream, or at least the significant end of it.
If you like to take a look on it, i post it here...

[Finefeather]

Posted by animovado (here)
Ray, in post #1026 you describe two categories of humans and i like to know,
where do you think yourself fits in?

Hi animovado
I do not subscribe to separation. All worlds are the one creation and we are at this point in our evolution in the physical world, where we are becoming conscious of things at this level. In time and because it is our goal, we will one day move into higher kingdoms. Our current task is to master physical life, with all of it's many difficulties.

'Spirituality' exists in all the worlds and cannot be separated just because we think the physical world is what it is...To be 'spiritual' we do not need to go to another dimension...the real place to learn is here. How can we learn about the physical world if we do not living in it?

Unity and love is attainable here on earth. Only once we have learnt the significance of this, and only once we have cultivated this thinking, and demonstrated it in the way we live our lives, will we be able to move on and advance to higher dimensions as a permanent place of residence. Until we have achieved this we will reincarnate continually back into the physical world. We have all had thousands of incarnation to get us to this point in our thinking...in bodies on this and other planets.

Millions who incarnate now into bodies on Terra have come from many other planets and solar systems in an attempt to finish off their physical incarnations by refining their individual consciousness through experience on this planet.

Love to you
Ray

[animovado]

Okay Ray, i'll take this as an answer to my question.

I do not subscribe to separation.

Ray, i wasn't assuming that, i don't subscribe it either - except in the dark moments of my live, where separation and dissociation were taking place.
I was just kidding, because of the "what creates what" theme in the last few posts.

In time and because it is our goal, we will one day move into higher kingdoms.

I will quote an older brother of us.

"...nothing chains you to the rhythm of a somewhat defiant mankind. The liberation is not a matter of time, yet of the influences of the movement of the eons, but rather a personal determination"

While i'm reading your post the impression arises, that it's meant for the "man in the prison" you might see, or the impatience of a juvenile soul. Maybe that's not far from the truth and thank you, Ray, for your kind and encouraging words.

I never had a strong longing for higher realms and the planes above 3D.
In my childhood i had a very short, spontaneous OBE. In the moment
i became aware hovering under the ceiling, i was terrified and instantly pulled back. As there were other odd and frightening things happening and i guess they had to do with adjustments of the energetic body, as i believe is a very natural event.
So, due to this experiences there was never a longing for the beauties of the astral world i've later heard about.
I thought to myself, hey, what's happening there is not so different to what i know from this plane here. One to handle is more than enough.

And i found that i have to handle the higher realms anyway, even when i'm incarnated. I took again twenty years to have enough courage to get closer to that topic again - hopefully a little more mature.

[Chester]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by justoneman (here)

Posted by Orph (here)

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Thought creates form which creates consciousness.

Form is what creates consciousness and without form consciousness would not exist.

Crap. I thought it was the other way around. I'm all mixed up. I thought consciousness created form.

It's been said that "spirit" has a tough time getting into these dense physical bodies. And here I am trying to get the heck out. No wonder I'm so lost and confused. One part of me is trying to have an OBE while another part of me is trying to have an IBE.

Actually, both are true - understand this paradox and you graduate from elementary school.

Here is the paradox...You must have flunked elementary school
Consciousness cannot create...it is thought that creates and thought is energy...and matter is energy in motion.
The result of a dual constituent creation cannot be created by the resultant creation.
Take care

Actually, I was expelled... 7th Grade - in part, for showing up the "teacher."

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
It continues to be surprising and embarrassing to me that teradatyl and Jake continue to post about such things here. I don’t know why they don’t post such material in a thread such as The Secret Of The Soul instead – which I’d certainly prefer.

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Hi, Jake. As Eram points out, I wasn't inviting or suggesting that you shouldn't make posts here.

Perhaps we misread then, or perhaps you have some distinction in mind that we missed?

Let me clarify. Although I made a mistake by expressing myself in a way that Jake understandably found very offensive, my (conscious) intention certainly wasn’t to request Jake and teradactyl not to make any posts in this thread. I certainly never said or implied “any posts”. I also made the post hastily and was foolish enough not to check to see whether its wording was offensive – for which I apologize to Jake. For one thing, around 1% of teradactyl’s posts have been of the type I was (very clumsily) expressing my displeasure at. It’s also the case that under about 30% of Jake’s posts would fall in that category. I didn’t mention at the time that I’ve certainly found all of Jake’s posts (except some in the last week) lots of fun to read, because he has a unique kind of strong enthusiasm that’s very refreshing to experience.

It’s also unfortunate that I didn’t make some change to the thread’s title early on. But let me explain some of the history of this thread, purely as I see it. I started the thread primarily with the intention of eventually facilitating individuals getting more in touch with their higher consciousness (Higher Mind, Higher Self). I knew that 35 years ago astral travel was one of many things that together had helped me to do that. I also assumed that anyone interested in astral travel was also ultimately interested in the latter – which, based on my experience, astral travel seems to be a kind of good stepping stone towards.

I soon discovered that most people seemed to have more difficulty succeeding at astral travel than I had had. That made it harder for me to help them because of the way I learnt to astral travel “fluently”, such as every night in the middle of sleep. The way I learnt that was through special help. I don’t know how I did most of it, because it was handed to me on a silver platter. Those “guides” that took me to various tutorials (sometimes one-to-one) or classes or lectures every single night – often in locations elsewhere in the solar system. The classes occurred in venues that most often looked almost like a small old-fashioned classroom with a big blackboard on stilts, or sometimes looked like a lecture theatre or a hall or a temple. I’m pretty sure that was the “hologram” given to me so I’d feel more familiar with the setting each time, rather than how it really looked. I remember once or twice being amazed to be quite refreshed in the morning when I knew I had been attending various “classes” that night.

But I soon realized that for every person reading the thread who’d had even a rare astral experience there seemed to be more than one who hadn’t, and that only a few seemed to find it – relatively! – easy as I had, and do. And I was interested in helping the non- astral experiencers, who obviously needed something else.

I also soon realized that to me personally, “bi-location” and (proper) meditation are very much the most important kinds of OB experiences. I thought that by now I’ve made that abundant clear. I don’t understand why people who’ve read the thread want to insist that “OB experience” has to mean “astral travel”, or that astral travel is even the most important kind of such experience. To me that now seems ridiculous, as I thought I’d made clear some time ago. You might as well claim something absurd, such as that unconscious form creates all consciousness! Or that “in the beginning was the Word”, but that “Word” had no consciousness. Sounds like “the Word” must be a robot computer, perhaps!

These days I rarely astral travel, but I do bi-locate all the time. And the primary reason I stopped astral traveling and even Light-“traveling” was that I found over a number of years that “bi-location”, at least for me, seemed to achieve everything that’s relevant there to soul evolvement. Hence I have recently been offering the experience and exercise of “being at one with”, and have also suggested meditation, because both of these develop bi-location skill – eventually, or much sooner.

The notion that a spiritual life centrally involves some kind of “bi-location” is very common. As far as I know, all forms of Hinduism acknowledge that one must activate one’s higher consciousness/mind so that it is functioning along with one’s ordinary mind and egoic consciousness. I understand Mahayana Buddhism includes the majority of Buddhists, and “Mahayana” means “Big Mind/Consciousness” so again, it’s the same idea. Christianity speaks of “the descent of the Holy Spirit”. And “the Holy Spirit” endows one with certain intuitive and clairvoyant gifts, and with virtues. And so on.

Quite apart from that, I have already dredged my memory from around 30 to 35 years ago and I’ve offered whatever advice or comments I could regarding astral travel. mostly much earlier in the thread. So I’m close to “out of petrol” in that area. And yes, I again stress, I don’t believe it’s the most important type of OB experience. I do think it’s a pity Jake hasn’t started a thread regularly presenting maybe summaries of “how to” sections of his book, and then answered any questions in such a thread. Or maybe he could do that
in the The Secret Of The Soul thread, or wherever. That’s what I should have said earlier instead of expressing myself so poorly in that earlier post.

The other thing is, a number of people are apparently making very good progress in their soul’s unfoldment mostly without any significant astral travel, it seems. There are even at least several such people who don’t post but have communicated to me by PM. A very big consideration for me at all times has been to present the safest, sanest ways I could find to do things. So I’d much rather have someone with more recent experiences than myself commenting on astral travel. But –as it felt to me – in this thread that might by this stage be confusing because, it seems to me, that would now be going in a different direction.

One last comment. What seems to always happen in the journey towards freedom from suffering is that initially and for many years things seem to get tougher and tougher. No doubt this is because one is uncovering bigger and bigger egoic obstacles lying in one’s psyche the further one goes – until a certain point is reached. No doubt brave individuals such as teradactyl are experiencing some of this, and hence may find themselves eager for “something else” that may make things get much easier right now.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by animovado (here)
this morning i remembered a dream, or at least the significant end of it.
If you like to take a look on it, i post it here...

You're very welcome to do so. Most of our dreams come from our Higher Mind, as far as I'm aware. I'm always happy to hear anything that truly comes from the Higher Mind.

[Finefeather]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
You might as well claim something absurd, such as that unconscious form creates all consciousness! Or that “in the beginning was the Word”, but that “Word” had no consciousness. Sounds like “the Word” must be a robot computer, perhaps!

Hi TH
As this is my 'absurdity', which I claim, and which I tried, unsuccessfully, to get across...it would only be fitting if you explained and elaborated on this statement of yours...which you have sneaked into your post, and brushed under the carpet...as if it was some ramblings from just another ignorant human...requiring no action. You even failed to get it right because you did not read and understand the statement I made when I said in the beginning of that post, that the 3 aspects of Motion, Consciousness and Matter cannot exist separately. Also...if you have been in any OB states...especially the emotional/astral levels...you should know that anything we think is created instantly...and if we did not think, we do not create, and how do you think we would be conscious of anything which does not exist?...another illusion?

Also in a previously post I asked you to explain what you understand as 'Source'...who you claim to have experienced...you have not yet done so.

So here are my questions to you:
1. Do you 'believe' in the evolution of life...and that we have over many billions of years evolved from mineral to plant to animal to our current human kingdom?
2. If you do then can you explain why consciousness is so radically different from say the mineral to the human kingdom and also what part our human senses might play in the expansion of our consciousness...seen that minerals and plants do not have these and are known to be less conscious that we are.
3. What is consciousness and what is it that causes it to increase as we evolve?...and why is one human less conscious than another?
4. What part does your kind of 'higher mind' OB have in increasing our consciousness over mundane 'astral travel'...when both are just another form of subjective self created illusion?...even the place you think you are in.
Only Causal Beings...are able to judge fact from illusion in any of the so called dimensions you think exist...and if you were a Causal Being...you would know exactly that true objective consciousness is a function of objectiveness only and cannot be attained in any other way. The subjective consciousness you might be thinking of is not realised consciousness. If we don't know of truth in our physical state of consciousness, we do not know it in any dimension. Nobody becomes omniscient in out of body states...this is pure illusion.

5. Who or what is this 'Source' you talk of and what significance does it have in our lives.

Thank you...and take care, and my love to you.
Ray

[Jake]

TH said here: Let me clarify. Although I made a mistake by expressing myself in a way that Jake understandably found very offensive, my (conscious) intention certainly wasn’t to request Jake and teradactyl not to make any posts in this thread. I certainly never said or implied “any posts”. I also made the post hastily and was foolish enough not to check to see whether its wording was offensive – for which I apologize to Jake. For one thing, around 1% of teradactyl’s posts have been of the type I was (very clumsily) expressing my displeasure at. It’s also the case that under about 30% of Jake’s posts would fall in that category. I didn’t mention at the time that I’ve certainly found all of Jake’s posts (except some in the last week) lots of fun to read, because he has a unique kind of strong enthusiasm that’s very refreshing to experience.

Thank you for the clarifying remarks. A very wise person just PMd me about the power of words, and reminded me that we are all on the same side here.

TH, Here at Avalon, we have embraced a tradition where we exchange thoughts and ideas. I will always come to the defense of a member, or myself, if we are told that it is preferred that we do not post our points of view. This forum is not a place where we have pulpits for folks to preach. A freeflow exchange of Ideas, is always the best formula. You have surrounded yourself with amazing minds and amazing people! Embrace it! You are an amazing mind and an amazing person. I would certainly be at a loss if I did not embrace that.

Cheers to all. Jake.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi Jake! I had a rather unexpected dream about two nights ago in which I saw, guess what, TWO MOONS!!!
I hadn't really given the concept any more thought but I really can't ignore the information that was transmitted wordlessly to me in this dream:

First off, there was only one Moon, but there was also a great comet rolling across the sky that was much brighter than the Moon which dimmed as it came to a stop to the right and parallel with the first Moon. It was then that I realized it was a second Moon, so in the dream I decide to come and look for you to tell you what I'd seen. I went to a place where I thought I might find you (somehow?), and an older lady with white curly hair said you weren't there (must be a time-zone thing). It was then that I received the thoughts that told me what it was all about. I knew that what you were doing (possibly every time you go out of body?), was going into the future to a time when there were two Moons and that this had great significance for the future of humanity. I was experiencing this time, in the dream, and I knew that the creation of the second Moon was set to cause a great awakening for the whole population, something that every one could plainly see with they're eyes and could not ignore. This miraculous event would be the catalyst in a great war between the forces of good and evil for the control (and possible liberation) of the planet because people en mass would realize that there really is hope, and help out there, and that TPTB's days were truly numbered. We had an alternative, and above all we had choice.

So when I woke up, I gave some serious thought to the possibility that this two Moon scenario might actually happen. David Icke has the theory that our Moon is actually a hollowed out spaceship that was put in place by ET races. I've also read reports saying that there appear to be cracks appearing on the Moons surface, also that the mass of the Moon acts very strangely. Perhaps our old Moon has had it's day then and needs replacing? The best way to do this is to have a smooth transition between the old Moon and the new Moon in which the mass of the first Moon would be gradually lowered (if indeed the ET's have control of the mass), whilst the mass of the new Moon would be gradually raised. When complete, the old Moon could be taken away for scrap or repair. This sort of maintenance can't possibly be done in secret, and so maybe the ET's have no choice but to reveal themselves to the whole planet in this way.

This sounds crazy even to myself, but the dream really inspired me, and I really can't help thinking 'What if?'...

So anyway, Jake, what do you think about the idea that your OBE's are all taking place in the future?
(you did see your pet in the future didn't you)
If this is the case, then you maybe able to do a little research next time, like perhaps asking some of the residents (in the future Earth) how the second Moon came to be?
This may make more sense than trying to chase it down.

P.S. Hi TraineeHuman! I'm not off topic am I? I'm really interested in the mechanics of Jakes OBE experiences in respect to time travel.
Also I think it useful to both other's and myself when Teradactyl want's to get 'back to basics' sometimes. It's much better for this thread to be inclusive, rather than exclusive.

Synchronicity Alert: Hi Teradactyl! when you posted that OBE technique passage from Lobsang Rampa's book, I had been away from my computer for a few days, but I've worked out that I had been re-reading that exact same passage on the same day and at roughly the same time that you posted it. This tells me it was much needed.

[AwakeInADream]

Hi TH! I think it was around four months ago when the subject of intention was first brought up on this thread. I told you by PM then that I had set a very strong intention that I would find a job where I would be happy (if such a thing was possible). At the time it felt like I hadn't made this intention myself, because I was making it as the Higher Self. So since the intention came from my Higher Mind, I believe it was much more powerful. I believed with certainty that this would happen, and I was right to believe.

I have successfully manifested myself a perfect job!

I've applied for hundreds of jobs in the long time in which I was unemployed, and I was in no position to refuse any of them. The probability was that I would get a job I didn't like doing, but I've defied the odds and found a job that I literally love doing. It doesn't even feel like work, I think because the 'feeling the aliveness' is now part of who I am, I enjoy being there. I'm working directly with customers for the first time in my life, not hidden away in a warehouse, and when I make a customer happy, I know it because I feel an electric current run over my scalp, I feel appreciated. Every day I communicate to everyone I meet my deep inner peace and joy, transmitted through the medium of a simple smile. My Soul loves this.

So I must thank you again TraineeHuman! This thread has helped me to transform first my inner world, then my outer aspect and now finally the world I live in! New doors are continually opening for me, and people are treating me better (based on how I treat myself). It seems like since I've found this hidden layer of unconditional love and bliss that was always there, but just under the surface, the physical world around me is being transformed to reflect that which was once hidden. What I first perceive at a subtle level, seems to come into manifestation just because I observe it. Maybe this is intention in action? The world has definitely changed in a very real way, since I have changed myself.

-------------------

EDIT: Speaking of smiles It was a simple smile that first communicated to me the great importance of Itzhak Bentov when I saw him in the video Ray posted. I knew by his smile that he knew something that I needed to know too. Strangers keep catching me smiling in the street, apparently at nothing, but I know that they really know why at the Soul level. This is real communication.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=GkKLhOU_0Fo

Led Zeppelin

Mmm, I'm telling you now,
The greatest thing you ever can do now,
Is trade a smile with someone who's blue now,
It's very easy just...ooh, yeah

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
I have successfully manifested myself a perfect job!

I've applied for hundreds of jobs in the long time in which I was unemployed, and I was in no position to refuse any of them. The probability was that I would get a job I didn't like doing, but I've defied the odds and found a job that I literally love doing. It doesn't even feel like work, I think because the 'feeling the aliveness' is now part of who I am, I enjoy being there. I'm working directly with customers for the first time in my life, not hidden away in a warehouse, and when I make a customer happy, I know it because I feel an electric current run over my scalp, I feel appreciated. Every day I communicate to everyone I meet my deep inner peace and joy, transmitted through the medium of a simple smile. My Soul loves this.

Now that's an example of what I would call the descent of the Higher Mind into the physical world!