The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

[TraineeHuman]

Tom Campbell obviously believes that physical reality, when deeply understood and researched, reveals the true underlying nature of all reality. This must be at least partly true once we admit the impossibility of genuinely splitting subjecthood from objecthood -- at least in the building blocks of the physical universe (photons/light, strings, or whatever) and also in human beings. It must be true because then physics, and physical reality, can no longer be accurately be thought of as the "object(s)" relative to which we possess subjecthood but are essentially quite separate and estranged from. What instead becomes true is that in studying the essence of physical reality we are studying the essence of ourselves, provided only that we go deeply enough.

Campbell seems to believe that this is the best way for many to come to grasp the truth regarding life, the universe and everything. Interesting, considering that Campbell has enormous experience in developing his psychic skills, including astral projection and psychic healing. On the other hand, I and quite a few others have arrived at rather similar insights regarding the deeper and truer nature of reality firstly and primarily through direct experience -- particularly through meditation. This didn't involve intellectual study at all -- or not for me, at least. It involved just going into pure awareness -- then bliss --deeper and deeper. There are of course traps in doing it that way. One still needs to work at self-enquiry and self-knowledge. Life continually provides feedback to us all about how we're doing, and the more we develop our awareness the more feedback there often seems to be.

[TraineeHuman]

The Copenhagen interpretation of quantum phenomena is by no means an interpretation, but a statement of fact, as Tom Campbell points out in the first video in post #1491. By "the Copenhagen (so-called) 'interpretation'" he and I simply mean the fact that a perceiver or observer partially determines what reality they see or observe. As Campbell explains, this is proved to be a fact from logical analysis of the results of the double-slit experiment, and also other quantum physics results. The proponents of the "Many Worlds" view simply flat-out deny or ignore what the double-slit experiment demonstrates.

In this Forum there has been much discussion and speculation, and one might even say romanticism or fantasy speculation, on the idea that we are living in many different worlds simultaneously, each world corresponding to some different major decision we could have made in our lives. I think the latest thread was called Schrodinger's Cat Food, here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post7073938

On the other hand, though, the many possible worlds do exist at the level of the mental plane, and sometimes no doubt the astral plane. But they're not manifested in the physical, as far as I understand.

[TraineeHuman]

There is a huge difference between the purely subjective and the inter-subjective. The inter-subjective is the most certain part of what many would like to think of as that which is "objective". This was explained by Descartes in his Meditations, just before he single-handedly formulated or invented the basics of the scientific method in its modern form. As Descartes explained (and contemporary philosophers and sociologists agree), the only things which are certain are those which are experienced in the same way by all individuals. That is what "inter-subjective" means. For instance, a physical measurement -- assuming things like parallax distortions are taken into account; also, the fact that you are alive and have a consciousness.

What Campbell is pointing out is that conscious attention on a quantum physics experiment, from anyone, can have precisely the same effect on the experiment's results, regardless of whose consciousness is paying attention. It's not that you individually can change reality to suit yourself just by how you choose to look. Rather, consciousness "distorts" the behavior of "objects" in quantum physics inter-subjectively, i.e., in the same way regardless of whose individual consciousness it is.

[TraineeHuman]

There are many reasons why it's important to explore and understand the inter-subjective. Tom Campbell does this is in some detail, but mostly within the field of physics and the foundations of physics -- except that he also sees remote viewing and psychic healing and, I assume, meditation as applications of what ultimately underlies physics.

Maybe a more important reason for seeking to understand the inter-subjective is because without it we can't understand the Now. Unfortunately, people are tempted to suppose that they do understand and appreciate, and can easily experience, everything that's involved in the Now. Certainly, if you do manage to be sufficiently fully in the Now then -- and only then -- you will have a true center. Then your thought will simply stop wandering in circles. And your life will be largely in synch with the Universe itself. That, I suggest, is also what it means to be freed from the Fall of the human race.

Whenever you get truly centered like this, there is a mind -- the Higher Mind. It sees everything inter-subjectively. The Universe itself ultimately only exists for the sake of Consciousness -- for the HM and ultimately the Divine Mind. But alas, there are many types and levels of "mind". The HM, and the Divine Mind, is what gives human life its infinite value. But how to integrate and reconcile Spirit and Matter, or the Divine and Nature -- without denying or invalidating the reality of either?

Another reason why I suggest it's important to begin to ex-lore and understand the inter-subjective is because of one of the major forms of dumbing down in twentieth century society almost planetwide. This has been the myth of --as I would describe it -- objectivity-as-king-over-the-intersubjective. I've already done my best earlier to explain that, for example, the "I" is master of and dominant to and more real than the "me". One reason why this myth manages to retain some plausibility is the fact that we are limited beings seeking to understand the totality of what there is. We do therefore need to sometimes use imagination initially in a purely subjective way, to help our understanding or our inquiry to find broader horizons. Unfortunately, most of us have no definitive experience and understanding of a non-dual Divine, universal consciousness. But neither do we have any clear limit at all to our experience even while we still have the confines of a physical body. All forms of OB or meditation experience tend to affirm this quite clearly.

What we ideally all need is an enlargement of our individual consciousness into a truly universal consciousness. And the inter-subjective is the very area that points us towards this. It's what gives us insight into what it may be like. That expanded consciousness, if we do manage to experience it, clearly exists eternally and purely for its own sake, and is far, far more subtle than our physical body-mind. This brings us, though, to the topic of what is the true nature of Time, the Time that lies beyond all measurement.

It should be clear that that Time, being immeasurable, must be inter-subjective or at least subjective. By contrast, physical space, as normally understood, seems to be clearly objective (in the true sense of the word, i.e. object-like). It's divisible into units, each of which is the same as the other -- in so far as it's pure (physical) space. Notice, too, that "time" a la our clocks is that aspect of Time which can be objectified. That's because it's also divided (interesting word, "divided") into standard, identical units, known as minutes, hours and so on. By contrast with physical space, the experience of the HM often includes a vivid experience of "pure space" of a non-physical kind, and which is not passive at all but feels highly intelligent and dynamic and alive, and very truly present, unlike physical space, which is a kind of empty blandness.

In perhaps mysterious and certainly veiled ways, the universal Consciousness possesses a self-knowledge that secretly lies within all life, in everything animate -- and even, I would claim, in such things as rocks. Incidentally, that's a very interesting astral projection exercise -- to visit, say, rocks, and explore whether inwardly in them somehow there is some type of Higher consciousness after all, of which they themselves are not aware. Maybe out of that we could come to experience that there is such a thing as the unified, the one, consciousness that underlies all that's matter. One might call this "Matter".

The physical world is real precisely because it only exists in consciousness.

[TraineeHuman]

The physical universe is indeed a hologram: Tom Campbell elaborates on some aspects of this in considerable detail. I don't completely agree with some of his details. But there is a profound and fascinating reason why the world as we like to think we know it has to be a hologram. It has to be not the full reality.

First let me suggest that this is something gigantically more radical, more "way out there", than just the idea that the physical universe -- or, if you like, the electromagnetic mental and emotional universe -- is a kind of projection, like some cosmic movie. Why do I say this? Well, just imagine for a moment, if you will, what something would be like if it's more than the universe, beyond the entire universe. Really, what could that be like? Certainly it won't live by all the same rules as the universe, so to speak. It would be wilder than that! What if there is a superior whatever it is Beyond, living in a rather inexpressible infinity and eternity? What if it isn't tainted by polarity or duality, for instance -- but can still hugely affect the world of polarities we live in? This of course is simply a perhaps more sophisticated version of the notion that God made, or makes, the universe. As I've already mentioned, though, God -- well, Source --- actually contains the entire universe also. The ground beneath our feet really is "holy", wherever we might be standing, and however dirty or bloodied it may also be. The world as God's hologram, God's ultimate toy. It has to be a hologram, because Source's signature is everywhere, if you know how to look, in even the tiniest fragment of the physical universe. As quantum physics to some degree suggests.

To know that Beyond, I guess we need to experience or be in that level of consciousness where we find ourselves totally -- and somehow undeniably -- one with all existence. And what a call to the wilderness it is just to experience that, to see with those "spectacles". How understandable that well-educated people select to become homeless, or others feel compelled to become utter ascetics. Misguidedly in both cases, in my opinion, by the way.

Can you imagine a Beyond which exceeds our known reality hugely, humungously, gigantically? So that all forms, to give one example, and all quantities, and even all qualities, get dissolved, transformed, into something much greater than themselves? Into something where what we knew seem like the palest shadows, or not even that? When I was sixteen I really wanted to write a tiny book which would describe some of this reality in simple terms others would understand, and they would see that it must be true. I had read a charming small book called Flatland. Flatland was all about mathematically-two-dimensional conscious beings who were things like triangles and rectangles and so on. In that world, single lines were considered lower-class and circles and multi-sided polygons were greatly admired and respected, and depth effects (i.e. from the third mathematical-dimension) were considered highly puzzling and supernatural and inexplicable. I decided the best working title I could come up with for my piece was Blobland. I never got to write most of Blobland, though I spent considerable time trying. The problem was that the English language was far too incomplete, far too inadequate. Also, concepts were largely inadequate. I guess there was no substitute for pure Being, and Being of a kind that's identical with consciousness, with no difference between the two.

It's already been mentioned in this thread that the HM has no difficulty holding two or more contradictory points of view or ideas or whatever at the same time. Even much more so the Oneness, or Source, where, for example, total absolute oneness is fully felt and experienced/lived, and at the same time all conflicts and everything else is also completely tolerated and accepted -- even if seen from the perspective of infinity, raather than from the viewpoint of the surface self.

I could say something like: in Source the Absolute and the Relative turn out to be identical; and the Absolute is actually relatedness itself. But whatever I say, it will include what our ordinary mind sees as a contradiction. Such is the nature of the "projector" of this hologram which we think we know as the universe.

Maybe -- I think probably -- even if one hasn't experienced Source directly (which is the ultimate metaphysical heart attack anyway), one can still have some kind of vague but firm sense of it inside oneself. Or maybe just the firm sense that the world we know is woefully incomplete, and must be only a shadow of something much greater and truer?

[HaulinBananas]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
. . . Can you imagine a Beyond which exceeds our known reality hugely, humungously, gigantically? So that all forms, to give one example, and all quantities, and even all qualities, get dissolved, transformed, into something much greater than themselves? Into something where what we knew seem like the palest shadows, or not even that? . . . The problem was that the English language was far too incomplete, far too inadequate. Also, concepts were largely inadequate. I guess there was no substitute for pure Being, and Being of a kind that's identical with consciousness, with no difference between the two.
. . .

Maybe -- I think probably -- even if one hasn't experienced Source directly (which is the ultimate metaphysical heart attack anyway), one can still have some kind of vague but firm sense of it inside oneself. Or maybe just the firm sense that the world we know is woefully incomplete, and must be only a shadow of something much greater and truer?

I was listening yesterday to a portion of William Buhlman's audio book How To Have an Out Of Body Experience, disk 2 of 6, section titled: The Direct Path to a Spiritual Experience and he tells of a natural evolution he experienced in OBE, as he progressed from experiencing forms in astral to moving beyond light speed within himself, through layers of color, beyond our multi-dimensional reality and going to higher or finer vibratory dimensions within himself, realizing that this was possibly a doorway to having a profound experience.

So, instead of exploring the form-based realities of the astral world he decided to intend to have a profound experience. He demanded to experience his Higher Self. William Buhlman's experience is described as shooting like at the speed of light in a vacuum, he says through layers of color, within himself, he says that it is hard to describe in words, but of he could only describe layers of color, mists, energy, as if his Beingness was being stretched throughout the entire Universe. Until he was floating in an immense sea of light (he says words are inadequate to describe it) He was part of it, it was pure Love, pure Beingness, pure Knowledge, Connection, all Wisdom.

To him, this was an experience that showed him the true potential and power of out of body exploration beyond exploration of the astral. He realized that it was a profound experience we all can have, and still remain a part of society. He says it's just a matter of focusing, taking the time, learning the techniques. And Doing It. He says this is the most powerful reason to OBE. It gives immense personal knowledge, that we suddenly Know, that beliefs are gone. That we realize what is important. That OBE is a direct inner path. William Buhlman tells his experience, and your description above is similar, especially the part where words cannot describe it sufficiently.

With regard to Tom Campbell, for about 4 months I thought Tom Campbell hadn't put up any new videos on Youtube. The number of videos stayed at 204. Then I found a new one last week, because the number went to 205. However, a comment below the Youtube video said to check the "Playlists" tab, that he had been adding a number of videos the past few months. And, he had. But you have to click Playlists to see them. He has a whole conference done in Mexico recently put up on his Youtube channel - a conference will include the lecture and exercises. So the Youtube video count on Tom Campbell's channel doesn't reflect the addition of new videos.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by HaulinBananas (here)

I was listening yesterday to a portion of William Buhlman's audio book How To Have an Out Of Body Experience, disk 2 of 6, section titled: The Direct Path to a Spiritual Experience and he tells of a natural evolution he experienced in OBE, as he progressed from experiencing forms in astral to moving beyond light speed within himself, through layers of color, beyond our multi-dimensional reality and going to higher or finer vibratory dimensions within himself, realizing that this was possibly a doorway to having a profound experience.

So, instead of exploring the form-based realities of the astral world he decided to intend to have a profound experience. He demanded to experience his Higher Self. William Buhlman's experience is described as shooting like at the speed of light in a vacuum, he says through layers of color, within himself, he says that it is hard to describe in words, but of he could only describe layers of color, mists, energy, as if his Beingness was being stretched throughout the entire Universe. Until he was floating in an immense sea of light (he says words are inadequate to describe it) He was part of it, it was pure Love, pure Beingness, pure Knowledge, Connection, all Wisdom.

To him, this was an experience that showed him the true potential and power of out of body exploration beyond exploration of the astral. He realized that it was a profound experience we all can have, and still remain a part of society. He says it's just a matter of focusing, taking the time, learning the techniques. And Doing It. He says this is the most powerful reason to OBE. It gives immense personal knowledge, that we suddenly Know, that beliefs are gone. That we realize what is important. That OBE is a direct inner path. William Buhlman tells his experience, and your description above is similar, especially the part where words cannot describe it sufficiently.

Ah yes, Light. If you should ever find there's Light everywhere, and unity everywhere around you, maybe that may sound like it could be monotonous, boring. But in my experience and knowledge that's not at all how anyone experiences pure Light, and even being pure Light. It's not some endless blanchmange at all. Although yes, in a way it's like being able to have more and more of the most delicious desserts, as much as you can handle, without any health backlash. But you could say it's also the opposite of the known.

We can and do, in moments, also experience Light in a metaphorical sense. "Light" as that which dissolves polarity and any absence of happiness or joy in you. The Light of the pure Self, ultimately. Something that seems so much the opposite of all that's material. This, as I understand it, is the starting point for the leap beyond the HM.

Vastness. A totality that contains -- well, all totalities, in their essence. No vagueness. No clouds. Just truth -- the most wonderful feeling just because of how things are, and of how right and true and beautiful they are in the Light.

Incidentally, I've read way too much about very bright white light(s) supposedly being a trap after our death. For one thing, the fact is the whole transition into the afterlife is under the full control of the guardian angels. No being messes with them, believe me. Any bright white light you see at death will be either your HM or some guardian angel, or possibly some highly evolved and benevolent guide. No exceptions.

Another funny thing about the Light. In many near-death experiences, it seems that what a person sees as darkness or blackness actually is the Light, no less -- though it can take them a while to realize that this is so. Interestingly, this is what I also went through when I began regular astral projection. I initially seemed to be traveling in a blackness, but then learnt to "switch" it to pure Light -- presumably sometimes the Light of the HM or even beyond. I suspect this is why I have rarely ever experienced negative or hostile entities or beings while astral projecting. It's only been when I did something like dabble with doing exorcisms, for example, that I encountered any "baddies".

[Jake]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
I have rarely ever experienced negative or hostile entities or beings while astral projecting. It's only been when I did something like dabble with doing exorcisms, for example, that I encountered any "baddies".

Amen, brother. I started out in a different way... the 'baddies' were alive and well and seemed to take center stage... It is much different now!! I only wish that I had better mentorship as a child... In fact, I wish we ALL had better mentorship with regards OBE. A lot of time is wasted on the 'baddies'..... I would ask you to expand your teachings to the nature of the 'baddies',, but I no longer dwell there... you are a shining star, TH,,,,

Jake.

[HaulinBananas]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
. . .Incidentally, I've read way too much about very bright white light(s) supposedly being a trap after our death. For one thing, the fact is the whole transition into the afterlife is under the full control of the guardian angels. No being messes with them, believe me. Any bright white light you see at death will be either your HM or some guardian angel, or possibly some highly evolved and benevolent guide. No exceptions.

Another funny thing about the Light. In many near-death experiences, it seems that what a person sees as darkness or blackness actually is the Light, no less -- though it can take them a while to realize that this is so. Interestingly, this is what I also went through when I began regular astral projection. I initially seemed to be traveling in a blackness, but then learnt to "switch" it to pure Light -- presumably sometimes the Light of the HM or even beyond. I suspect this is why I have rarely ever experienced negative or hostile entities or beings while astral projecting. It's only been when I did something like dabble with doing exorcisms, for example, that I encountered any "baddies".

Thank you for sharing your experience and understanding of Light.

With regard to your rarely experiencing "baddies" - I have spent some time listening to Marilynn Hughes audio books from Audible, and she shares her OBE experiences. The experiences she relates seem to be almost always in a vast astral belief system that has to do with religions. There are a lot of "baddies" there, but also Angels, Saints, famous religious figures, Jesus, Satan, demons by the multitude, ghosts, evil people, victims, what might be what is called a Soul Group set of characters that she keeps meeting again in different times, incarnation, astral levels. Near the beginning of one of her lengthy audiobooks she tells of another OBE person who was observing her in a religious setting, and said he was a physicist. Since I had previously listened to Tom Campbell in My Big TOE, I wondered if it was him. But, there are apparently other physicists who OBE (maybe Fred Alan Wolf for one?.) Both Marilynn Hughes and Tom Campbell have said in their respective books something about being able to hurl "lightning" in the astral.

I'm glad you are addressing the topic of the white lights being a trap after death, keeping people in an incarnation cycle. I've wondered about that. In Robert Monroe's trilogy of books, particularly in the second book, Far Journey, the idea of earth being a Space/Time experience, the M-Band, and the various levels that beings would be floating at after or in between incarnations, plus the description of the Focus 27 area, the glimpses he has of what comes after the Human Experience, and his look into Earth's future when humanity had evolved to a physical/non-physical experience . . . all combine to make the reincarnation cycle seem like a restrictive but educational experience. To get out one has to evolve.

Tom Campbell's My Big TOE trilogy also uses the Earth reincarnation cycles as an evolutionary experience. Although he likens Earth to be on a nursery school level.

After listening to Marilynn Hughes audio books several times now (Galactica, Prelude to a Dream, Mysteries of the Redemption), I am uncertain that she has backed up to get a big picture view, it all seems to be one "tree" after another and no view of the forest. I recall Sir Dipswitch saying in the other OBE thread here on PA that a person can spend an eternity in the Astral, and after listening to Marilynn Hughes' books, I wonder if that is what she will be doing. Maybe she is making a difference for each person she saves. Like that one starfish on the beach that is thrown back into the ocean, it makes a difference to that one, even though all the others drying out on the beach aren't saved.

[Joe Akulis]

I love reading stories from astral rescue workers. It really helped me to understand the areas of what Monroe called Focus 23-25 "the belief system territories". So many different ways for people to work things out, and mostly in environments that they think are "real". There's also so many ways for people to just get stuck.

It's probably hard for TH to hear people like me talk about all the things I've learned by reading from others, instead of just going out and experiencing it for myself. :-)

I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

[TraineeHuman]

Posted by HaulinBananas (here)
Thank you for sharing your experience and understanding of Light.

There's some form of light at every level, and it's different at every level, but it usually points towards something from a level higher than that level.

With regard to your rarely experiencing "baddies" - I have spent some time listening to Marilynn Hughes audio books from Audible, and she shares her OBE experiences. The experiences she relates seem to be almost always in a vast astral belief system that has to do with religions. There are a lot of "baddies" there, but also Angels, Saints, famous religious figures, Jesus, Satan, demons by the multitude, ghosts, evil people, victims ...

Fine, but I found that if you can keep some of your attention on the Light and on how it nurtures you while you're in any any astral/mental/"causal"/... realm, you won't be bothered by demons etc etc.

Both Marilynn Hughes and Tom Campbell have said in their respective books something about being able to hurl "lightning" in the astral.

I've done that, but isn't it preferable just to share some Light, = good energy? For instance, you can nonphysically "hug" another being. After I learnt to astral project I found that my sexual relationships had a more satisfying side to them that was lovemaking in the astral and not the physical. This would sometimes continue for days or at least hours after physical sex. It seemed far more pleasurable to me, even if perhaps not exciting. But peaceful and blissful, and well -- detached in certain ways, certainly from the physical body. But also more sensual, in a pleasant way, at an astral level, because in the lower to mid astral levels sensuality can actually be experienced more intensely.

I'm glad you are addressing the topic of the white lights being a trap after death, keeping people in an incarnation cycle. I've wondered about that. In Robert Monroe's trilogy of books, particularly in the second book, Far Journey, the idea of earth being a Space/Time experience, the M-Band, and the various levels that beings would be floating at after or in between incarnations, plus the description of the Focus 27 area, the glimpses he has of what comes after the Human Experience, and his look into Earth's future when humanity had evolved to a physical/non-physical experience . . . all combine to make the reincarnation cycle seem like a restrictive but educational experience. To get out one has to evolve.

Well, yes, but we understand the white lights are benevolent. Ultimately, as I think you say, it's your own white light that's doing the restricting, because you're not ready to move on further yet.

After listening to Marilynn Hughes audio books several times now (Galactica, Prelude to a Dream, Mysteries of the Redemption), I am uncertain that she has backed up to get a big picture view, it all seems to be one "tree" after another and no view of the forest. I recall Sir Dipswitch saying in the other OBE thread here on PA that a person can spend an eternity in the Astral, and after listening to Marilynn Hughes' books, I wonder if that is what she will be doing. Maybe she is making a difference for each person she saves. Like that one starfish on the beach that is thrown back into the ocean, it makes a difference to that one, even though all the others drying out on the beach aren't saved.

The traps are all here in the physical while the person still has a physical body. There are so many traps. That's why psychotherapy and self-knowledge are so crucial. It can be harder to free a person from a trap once they've died. But they do manage to work their way out of them -- with the TEMPORARY exception of a kind of individual "black hole", by which I mean that the person feels totally hopeless under the weight of some issue and is sabotaging themselves without knowing it. So we do need the Marilyn Hughes types, provided they're aware enough to know what they're doing and strong enough to handle it. But there is also a gigantic "organisation" in the sky of all sorts of types of angels, who will eventually rescue such individuals.

In my twenties I used to have all sorts of mostly dead people trying to follow me around, wanting astral advice or instructions on the grounds that, according to them, I was a guardian angel. It was only in my fifties that I learnt that I really did have that past background. But I eventually decided it wasn't appropriate or natural for such beings to follow me around except maybe for a very short period. Because there are angels working in that area full-time. Also, I learnt that once dead people are truly ready to leave their trap(s), even the "black hole" situation, it was very easy to help them take the final small jump out. I simply had to create a small area of golden (Divine Mind) light and ask them to take one step into it. Then I would hand them over to some guardian angels, to do their normal job. One time I came across a group of over four thousand earthbound souls who were ready and had had enough. Each of them needed only a second to step into the golden light, and they were then freed of that trap already.

[TraineeHuman]

Light with a capital "L", as I see it, is almost the same as what I've been calling Oneness, so far. It's a kind of higher "octave" of the life-force. Light doesn't act individually, but seems to absorb all individuality into something greater, not in any destructive way but by some kind of osmosis, I guess.

Intuition, and intuitive knowing, occupies the middle territory between Light and our activity and awareness as an individual consciousness. So also does reason and the mind, at least when they are at their finest. Liberation is always ultimately a liberation into Light, as far as I'm aware. However, no-one achieves that full liberation at once, but only in many, many increments.

So, I guess I would say that once you can get into the HM world, what you seem to "see" as Light is actually the Oneness, or some partial view of the Oneness. This is certainly related to physical light, but the physical light is of course the analogue of the physical or astral body -- a veiled outreach from the Oneness into a lower-dimensional reality. Even physical light, though, is understandably mysterious. As Tom Campbell points out in the first video in post #1491, it's nonsense for physicists to claim that the very same "piece" of physical light, while remaining unchanged, takes the form now of a wave and now of a particle. That would be like saying it was now perfectly square and at other times perfectly circular, but without changing.

Still, it's a huge puzzle and mystery how Light which is infinite can shape and set in motion a finite universe. Even if Light was so to speak blindfolded and had all its infinity of "arms" tied (by itself) behind its "back", it's still extraordinary how it could pull off the miracle of creating finiteness. In my adolescence I frequently used to spend hours just looking at things like a street lamp at night, or the night sky, in wordless amazement and enthralment. It's only now that I've managed to verbalize anything about what the reason was that I did this -- and I'm sure this -- what I've said in this post -- was the exact reason.

[TraineeHuman]

All of Tom Campbell's ideas are important, I suggest, because he's wise enough to recognize one thing. This is that the only way to reconcile Spirit and Matter/materialism is through finding the utmost and complete unification of the two. In that sense, his view that physics somehow encompasses "everything" whatsoever is justified, and helpful. It also opens a way for people of today to consider profound spiritual questions ultimately via just understanding the foundations of physics. The inner reconciled with the outer.

As far as I understand, one starting point for everything Tom says is the following fact. Everything we experience or know to exist absolutely involves consciousness -- a perceiving, observing consciousness (or sometimes, maybe, being totally one with consciousness itself). There's no seen without a see-r, nothing known without a knower. Any kind of objectivity, full or partial, that can exist in that reality, which is the only reality we know, must, therefore, be active. And action can't happen without a subject, a doer.

It follows that therefore there's no such thing as a "world out there" if you mean any world that exists independently of consciousness. I trust that's very clear to everyone? (So, for example, there is no "matter" or "motion" prior to or in any way separable from consciousness.) Let me put the same thing in different words. We can only deal with knowable reality. Therefore, in the only reality we know, everything that exists exists for and in consciousness.

From the point of view of Spirit, the individual ego is a fiction. But we also live in a material world, and and if we emphasize the unreality of the ego too greatly, and deny its game, we'll alienate ourselves from ordinary life. However transitory or petty or neurotic or ultimately purposeless the ordinary world of Matter may be, we do live in it and are part of it also. Spirit per se is freedom, and matter is -- or seems like -- the chains. And somehow we have to cope with both as seamlessly as possible. T.S. Eliot said basically that between Spirit and Matter falls "the shadow", which seemed to be something ominous and meaningless. I think he was largely wrong. I would say what falls in between is Aliveness -- and that's something we can all directly feel if we try, deep within ourselves.

We shouldn't forget, either, how we are somewhat misled by words, always. Our limited (ordinary) minds see -- and yearn to see and clutch at -- sharp oppositions where these don't exist. And if we don't know, for instance, that truly the inner "I" lives beyond time, what point is there in talking of it -- unless it's to help us come to realize what is the truth. Who are we anyway, on the other hand, to believe we can impose limitations on Source? And what is the stillness and peace that transcends all our notions of stillness and peace? It does exist, though, and it is the creator of the hologram.

And what if the hologram is just a dream, a mistake, maybe?

[chocolate]

Funny, I wasn't going to intervene with the wonderful way you seem to be describing in fine English what I sometimes monologue in my mind, but somehow your 'words' made me.
Someone called me a see-r, and that exact word is the common point between my life over here and your post on the thread.

I lived for quite some time thinking that the way I see and experience things is the same for everyone, and somehow I expected everyone to understand me when I try to convey my 'ideas' (if they were to be ever 'my' ideas). But than, thanks to a constant clash of what I was seeing, and what people were telling me they were seeing and understanding, I came to the realization that something was terribly off (with me, at that particular moment years ago).
I obviously needed a lot of incentive to start to recognize the things for what they are with me personally.

Now it is getting easier to be with myself, but more difficult for everyone else around, if I ever decide to bring them into my understanding of things.

Reading your last few posts, I realized that is the case not only with me. But somehow, others seem to be experiencing the transition without that much trouble as I do.

I wrote on a thread yesterday how it would feel to have the ability to see beyond your immediate existence, but as far as I can tell, the majority of people don't necessarily read what you write, they read the way they are (I know, there is even an expression of similar sounding). And yet, when I decide not to be affected by the way what I see makes me feel physically, it becomes a very interesting and calming experience.

I don't do conscious astral travel, I tend to leave this to my higher guard to surprise me. But that is because I developed a very interesting close relationship with this higher person. That would mean that I can't be of much help here, sharing experience, but it is very enjoyable to read your posts, TraineeHuman.

[chocolate]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
Tom Campbell explains, in the first video above, how physical reality must be both non-local and also not made up of anything resembling particles or objects.

[...]

What he means by saying that physical reality isn't object-like in nature is that it's ultimately not passive or inert at all, but active, and incorporating subjecthood -- much as in human beings there is both the "me" side but also -- and much more importantly -- the "I" side. Hence, he explains, physical reality isn't made of electrons or photons or quarks or strings. These are nothing more than metaphors.

I took the liberty to change color of what I feel is true for me.
I have come across threads where members want and insist on that science only, as experiments and proofs or scientific results, can bring them to the truth, while I cannot feel farther away from that notion.

Sorry for the small interruption, I will let you continue.

This thread is rather fantastic . Thank you!

[HaulinBananas]

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
All of Tom Campbell's ideas are important, I suggest, because he's wise enough to recognize one thing. This is that the only way to reconcile Spirit and Matter/materialism is through finding the utmost and complete unification of the two. In that sense, his view that physics somehow encompasses "everything" whatsoever is justified, and helpful. It also opens a way for people of today to consider profound spiritual questions ultimately via just understanding the foundations of physics. The inner reconciled with the outer. . . .

Yes, I agree. After posting above, I felt strongly that I should have put a qualifying statement above where I mentioned about Tom Campbell and reincarnation that it was just one takeaway I got from a larger, well thought presentation of a larger reality. Just a tiny takeaway from a Big Picture.

I haven't been "trying" to do OBE like I was last year, but I continue to be interested in the topic, thus continue to find books and videos and audios to do with the topic, although I am exploring other ideas as well.

I have read in places that Hemi-Sync doesn't work, but saw this youtube clip, part of a series, that showed it working from the get go:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ehtZCemim0w

Perhaps something has changed, or maybe it was the setting, or maybe, as has been mentioned by other successful OBEers, this person often OBE'd as a child, remembering their activities, even as when an adult, looking back on their childhood (he mentioned in another clip of this series his childhood OBE experiences.) I only recall one OBE as a child, flying over my neighborhood at night, headed to the playground some blocks away. The last few years have been increasingly filled with paranormal or empathic or intuitive experiences or frequent synchronicities. Thus my continued interest.

I have, in the past few years, met people who have had spontaneous OBE and sincerely don't want to again, due to fear. I have met people in the past few years who claim to know me from ancient times and places, yet I have no such recollections. And none of them "remember" me from the same time and place, so I don't get any validation. One person I met, a friend of a friend, went into a strange channeling episode, of nearly an hour, as soon as I met him and claimed he, his new girlfriend (my friend) and I had all known each other for eons and keep meeting again. I think he may have been wanting to impress his new girlfriend and play on my ego though. I find it frustrating that I keep meeting people (in person) who have experiences and memories that I am working to understand - they do so spontaneously, and despite (a little) effort I don't.

One of the paranormal experiences I had a couple or few years ago might be called an OBE experience, except it happened in daytime, kind of spontaneously, and I was conscious of being both here, in my body, and there, both doing something else, and watching it at the same time. Which is kind of what is mentioned above in the video clip, too. (Of course, it could have been a very imaginative moment I was having too.) Maybe there would be two such experiences now that I think about it. I keep forgetting various paranormal experiences, and then something will remind me.

Well, TH, I hope you don't mind me posting a few things here, although I haven't much to offer in the way of genuine experiences or thoughtful insights. But, for a while it was getting quiet, and I didn't want you to think you were talking to yourself, I find both your thread and Sir Dipswitch's thread interesting. Thank you for your works.

[TraineeHuman]

One of the most honest and open-hearted and ego-free posts it has been my privilege to read in the Forum in some time, I believe, was made by chocolate yesterday, in the Spirituality thread 'The journey to discovering my true origins'. I'd like to quote most of it here, then do what I can manage to respond to it:

I have had quite some difficulty during my life, which I sometimes don't talk about, and I often express the idea that I would rather be somewhere else than here on Earth, but I guess the truth is, deep inside, I feel for so much that happens here that I will come again, by choice, not because of karma or anything else.
...
Yesterday I shared that I get to sense people's intentions and aspects of their life based on what they have written (on the forum or elsewhere), and that most of this it is painful for me, both for my emotions and feelings, and sometimes for my physical body. Especially if an animal or a plant is involved that suffers some trauma.
I seem to feel it all when it the correct state of mind. I have devised an explanation of why this happens, but since it involves also an explanation of what that reality is, I will not have the life force to write it all up in one go now, and will save it for the moment.

When I get to sense or see things, if I decide to share parts of them, most people feel threatened or violated and can become rather offensive toward me (or so it seems sometimes), so I just learned to not express much. Only on some very rare occasions as this one here, or if I decide someone needs some help, and by expressing how I feel that will be beneficial to them.
As I usually say I tend to be well around nature and animals much more than when humans get involved. There are exception of course, and I also do put effort to stay somehow inside the social situations. It is as if i need the interactions, but sometimes fail to cope with the results.

At the beginning I wasn't so well equipped to deal with this whole life here, and I encountered a few rough patches, but I survived them. There were family/parents issues, addictions, depression, and so forth in this colorful realm of life.

These past few years it started to get better, and easier when I learned to detach myself from almost all situations and all people involved that seem to be hurt me. In a way I became fear-less, which was liberating. At that moment I also started to recognize that what I was experiencing as being too different was actually quite okay to have, and that i am not alone in this.

I know I have a very strange unconditional love for most people which sometimes they misplaced or misunderstand as a weakness or low self esteem, but not in a spiritual or new age kind of a way (the Love term I mean). It is rather a special light feeling. I seem not to be able to find the right words now.

So whoever reads this, thinking how threatening it might be for someone to see more of the whole picture, you should know that it is not a position of feeling 'special', 'superior' (some mentioned term as elitist), ET rather than earthling, or different. I can think of it in terms of understanding and sensing probably a bit more than the usual. It is not at all that easy job, because I personally experience a lot of discomfort. But I am also learning to distance myself from the physical component of pain, and it may become easier with more practice.
I have to add that even though my soul or spirit or whatever you choose to call it is not from Earth, the connection to Earth is very strong, if not stronger than with many others that consider themselves native to the planet.

I'm replying to this post here because its primary theme is perhaps that of what to do with heightened sensitivity, and this was discussed a little early on in this thread.. Heightened sensitivity means that we feel pain much more strongly. If a person learns to astral project effectively, or to meditate effectively, or simply gets their life truly right, it's inevitable that they'll be faced with a great fineness of sensitivity inside themselves. All the more so if that individual is a Volunteer from some more harmonious world or planet, as chocolate and I certainly are. Also, I hope Freed Fox gets to read this, because it addresses a major problem for him also.

Early in this thread it was mentioned how the solution to the pain that great sensitivity brings is, in short, to learn to detach from one's identity as someone who's sensitive. (That's the only solution I know, Freed Fox!) Towards the end of her/his post, chocolate mentions coming to this realization. In this thread there was considerable mention of detachment mainly between November 2012 and April 2013, and that's why I'm responding to you in this thread, chocolate.

I can say: "Me too" to almost everything you say, chocolate. Yes, being a Volunteer doesn't mean feeling special, basically. It does mean feeling so connected, so intimate with everything and everyone. I've always instinctively loved to treat animals just as if they were people. So easy to share affection with them, without complications. And trees can teach one all sorts of wise things you probably won't get from other people. And yes, it was a problem in my life too, for several decades at least, that others would try to treat me like a victim sometimes because they noticed I was open or vulnerable -- and I was that way purely because inside I felt and knew that profound connectedness, that enormous intimacy with all, including all people.

But what sorts of masks to put on to protect myself from such exploitation? Some of them, for many years, involved looking like I was very detached in certain ways that others would sometimes interpret as uncaring. How to explain that I did so deeply care, underneath the protective mask? As you say, chocolate, hide it all inside, because others will feel threatened because you're too intense or too seemingly "strange" inside. At least others would eventually work out that I considered myself friend to absolutely everyone else -- so they'd come to deduce I must be friendly after all, despite the detachment.

And then there's the whole issue of being "different" at every turn, often without ever wanting to be, and feeling, as I say, so intimately connected, and therefore ordinary, inside. I guess I've already written about that a little in the other thread. It's taken me a few decades, but these days I've aleady learnt to look at everything as "ordinary", no dramas, and even if I act in some "special" way I seem to get away with it now, because people can see that I deeply accept myself as being that way -- and I guess they just think: "Well, that's just what he's like. He probably can't help being that way."

And wow, did I have a painful childhood and adolescence and twenties. To make it worse, at sixteen I realized that who I was was the entire universe -- which made it kind of tough to have to play the role of being someone in particular, and that seemed so incredibly trivial and petty and crazy sometimes. Then in my twenties I was expertly taught astral projection -- I believe mostly by ETs -- just to rub it in that that the real I was something other than what was going on in the physical world and society. Looking back on it now, though, I truly believe my life was richer for having not just the physical (and mental and emotional) side, but also a "double" beyond all that. Though it was tougher to learn to cope with both, after several or more decades the rewards finally came, and they were and are sweet, at least in my case.

[chocolate]

I am quickly stopping by to say that I have taken the hint.
The only reason for my interruption here is to say that I am very grateful for all the effort you have put into explaining your way of seeing the process.
I am at page 3, post 55, and will continue on diligently. It is actually not so much of an effort to read along, but rather a pleasant experience, I can only smile at the realization of how similar sometimes our lives are, and how similar some roads seem to appear.

I managed to find your way or wording perfect for my level of understanding, and my English (I am not a native English speaker). I am a female at this level here (mentioning this just for ease of communication).

I sensed a great level of feeling 'safe' on your threads, and that is the main reason why I decided also to share some bits (not that I haven't plastered parts of me on some other threads). You probably will understand what I mean by saying this.

I have grown to learn that I must be careful with my trust, but in some way I am allowing you to come in and do whatever feels best to you while I am travelling the worlds. I will take precautions, some of which you have described, but I don't have much fear, at least that I know of.

Later on when I feel the inspiration will share more.

My best ways of deep mediation is gi gong standing warrior mediation, and running long distances. I am about to embark on some of the latter, hoping that the picture will get clear once again.

Thank you ,TH for everything you have done on this forum, for all of us who needed to find it, to read it and see ourselves in your words.

[chocolate]

TraineeHuman,
I tried to suppress my impulse to write more in this thread out of fear that I might unnecessary dilute the almost perfect feeling of bliss here. But you have made few comments that I just felt compelled to respond to, to share some thoughts of my own. I will try to be brief, but not sure if it will work (being brief).

~~~

As far back as I can think of, I am one who remembers dreams, a great percentage of them. I have reached page 10 of the thread, and I learned a few more concepts, so I will not repeat anything that has been already said, but mostly how I experience things.
I had one particular dream that I will remember for ever.
I was a kid still when it happened. In the dream it was some sort of a night. I was walking on a wide desolate filed, and all around me there were killed people, parts of them, heads, torsos, arms, spread around, in some sort of bags, or not. I woke up scared, and since that moment I was afraid of the dark. But with time, and some more dramatic periods I reached the point where I read that the possible meaning of the dream is that it might show a breaking of a programming, so to speak, a rebirth of the psyche. When I was reading the Horus Ra thread I came to some sort of the same conclusion.

When I read this:

Posted by FrankoL (here)

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)

Posted by FrankoL (here)
I experience quite a lot OBE's. Not completely sure if it's DNA memory direct access or real body spirit split. HT are you descendent from "royal" bloodline? This would explain why...

Yes, my mother belonged to the Merovingian and Franco-Prussian royal bloodline. I was born in Australia, but she was a migrant from a country where, up till the start of WW2, her clan had been probably the most powerful and the richest in the country.

But, can you tell us why this would be relevant?

I guess I have seen "genetic" memories coming via my cells and DNA, but as far as I'm aware that's quite different from most of the OB perceptions/awarenesses I experience.

[...]

Not long ago I had same your belief, body spirit split and everything you describe so accurately.

However, I changed my POV when I was told very simply, there is only genetic memory passing from generation to generation (the bloodline).
In essence, you are almost a copy of all that was before you. [...]

I realized that it might have parts of truth inside, but I do resonated with my own experience and know that the strictly mechanical memory passing can be broken and transformed.
My father is a strange guy. He had shared with me some thoughts that at the time i never though he would.
He is a natural in OBE. He laughed when explained how he would watch at himself sleeping in his bed, and stories like that. He also has ' healed' me with his mind alone, while I have been a baby. I think it is possible some genetic predisposition plays a certain role in one's make up, but that is only part of the real story (for me).

~~~

When it comes to dreams, I have managed to except meaning from them in a very strange way. I know for myself that nothing I dream has a literal meaning, and that seemingly unrelated dreams are connected. Yesterday I had a situation when I would see flashes of dreams forming a picture or a concept. That is how I managed to know certain things about certain issues I had raised in my mind.
TH, your exercise about posing a question and waiting for the first answer I have done in my life many times. I just did not know that this can be view from the POV of Out of Body, until I read your posts about it.

Another way of finding answers is when I learned Remote Viewing. It was a crash course, a practical training, and without going into much details, I can firmly say that the base of the process is what you have described as posing the question in a stilled mind. Many people can do it without the intellectualizing of it, including myself, but I did connect some more dots for myself reading your posts.

~~~

Few days ago I found an article describing a possible explanation of why some people remember dreams. Science believes that this is connected to more blood flow to certain areas of the brain of some people. Could be true, considering my own genes. I also know for a fact that I have an unnatural amount of blood flow in my thyroid region. The doctor though I have an autoimmune disease, and he almost made me physically sick when I 'tried' to imagine it.
Needless to say, I took precautions and don't think I have Hashimoto's Thyroid Disease. But it is possible I have unnatural supply of blood in some areas of my brain, and possibly the whole body. I just will not go into any medical examination. If I can help it.

I will go into more detail of what I think of energy flows and grounding (related to my own physicality) in the next post.

[chocolate]

I find sometimes people conceptualize that thinking of your own experiences (past, present) is some sort of a narcissism (like saying "get off your bike, TH, would you").
For me, knowing my odds and my adventures in this not-so-perfect perfect world, I have done this only as means to understand. Otherwise I wouldn't have made it so far.
I have come to realize that one definitely needs lots of time to pass before being able to realize how everything is connected in retrospect.
When I opened the forum page today, I felt a sudden sharp feeling of sadness, until I thought of this thread. And that is a very honest opinion. I don't want to burden it with too much expectation, because I already know what is inside, and even if no one else writes in it, except for the ones that are still here, it is perfectly fine with me. I need no more than that.

~~~

I was once a young adult being totally confused about why so much doesn't make sense. Until I understood that I was trying to make sense of the outside's world 'sense', and it didn't go that well at the time. I let parents, relatives and friends tell me what is what and why, and they almost killed me (in all kinds of meaning), with their attempt to project their views on me. Good thing is my inner connection to my inner self, higher self, or in whichever you decide to title it, was never broken completely.

I have witnessed here people coming and going, swinging left and right, and it always puzzled me why they seem to loose their center all the time. One of the reasons I resonated with what has been written here is because it comes from a very natural and practical approach, which is what I have also developed after the initial years of feeling out of it.

~~~

The way I go about life, in the world of taking care of one's body, is based on few activities and philosophies that work for me.
I am coming from sport, so the physical activity is a natural way for me to get centered in a way or to fly around, depending on my needs.
I combine this with yoga, but that is not the yoga today, though by the western mind. I have learned from a real person, without any payment involved, and I managed to let it all in the way it has been supposed to be. I sometimes am surprised when people come to the realization of how to breathe properly, and why it is important.
I don't do a routine daily, since I value my inner child's attempts to do it differently all the time, but when I need to, I know what to do.

~~~

The same with the eating habits. I witness constantly the flow of pros and cons of being vegetarian/vegan/paleo, etc. I learned the base of it that when I was 16. I do read and try different approaches when compelled these days, but I have my center in that area, and now I just avoid all threads and information of that type flying around (here).
I am a vegetarian, and have been such for 20 some years. Whatever that would mean to some people. It comes from my deep (non-current-scientific!) understanding of how this world and I need to work together. And I am going to continue to be as such until I discover that I need to change it, to adapt to something new. I don't 'hate' people who eat meat, nor I 'love' people who don't eat meat.
But I do admire people who know where their balance lies.

I don't do drugs, of any sort (weed, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. etc), despite the fact I had a training in shamanism, or whatever you may call it. I value plants, for what they are, energetically speaking, and use them as teas and seasoning, but I don't smoke, or do anything fancier than that.
I am mentioning it here after reading some posts from the past.
From my own understanding, nothing is better than the state of 'clear' mind.

Except for chocolate and coffee.
But I do understand my body with its complex signals, after years of studies (!), and don't over-do anything in any way.

~~~

When it comes to grounding I value mostly gi gong.

Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
[...]
I find Q'i Gong very powerful, and would recommend it to everyone. Even though it's exercise, it's still a very valid form of meditation -- which is quite a paradox in itself. I love to do walking q'i gong. But I don't do it much because fifteen minutes of it it leaves me sort of intoxicated with bliss for hours afterwards. I haven't met anybody else on whom it has quite that effect. It's great for anybody, though. A woman in China cured herself of very advanced cancer just through practicing it. And, it's a great way to safely learn to begin to bi-locate. That's because you're doing the exercise, and therefore in your body, yet the energizing is so strong that your energy body gets stronger than normal, and hence you're more aware of it than normally.

Now you have met me as another one.

I seem to not be able to sit in mediation the yogi's way out of discomfort in my knees and legs. But I can do a standing qi gong mediation, and it feels amazing. The secret of this is that when you breathe in, the air (if the body is aligned correctly) goes straight to your abdomen, and feeds your center of balance in the region of the second chakra.
{ I have some medical qi gong videos available to anyone who finds this to be of interest. Send me an email. I don't allow the option of having private messages as a way of communication here, out of respect for my own peace, having some unpleasant encounters in the past }

One important thing I need to mention is that with any 'running energy' one does on one-self, the most important stage is to run your energy back to your center (second chakra). (That is how I 'ground' or actually more of a 'center' myself.) Otherwise there is a very real danger of disrupted energy balance of the body. Mentioning this in case someone is new to it.
I have learned it from a T'ai chi ch'uan teacher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T'ai_chi_ch'uan

[ I though I am the last one to discover that practice (qi gong). Here on this forum people have expressed opinions about it, that I can see come from a very shallow, if not nonexistent understanding of the practice. Not in this thread, but in many other threads.
That is not something that in any way can affect the way I feel about it. Because nothing replaces the sense of the actual practice, no amount of intellect can measure to the sense of being in touch with the 'real' world. ]

I read yesterday another thread ( I will not mention the name intentionally), devoted to grounding and breathing. For me the energy, when in need of grounding, standing up right, needs to run from the center of the body to the ground, not necessarily running through the legs or through the tail bone. The real energy stream runs naturally through the middle between the legs (sorry for the uncomfortable association, but that is how it is, not because I say so).

With that I can conclude my second post in sharing.
A bit lengthy, but not everyone is prone to 'mind' communication.

After this I will come with two important questions from my own need to discover more of the world of (conscious awake and aware) OB. I seem to love my sleep, so the only way to have an aware Out of Body seems to elude me right now.

*I will write my next bit tomorrow.*