Putin In 2014 And Now

[Hazel]

The "Abuse &/0R Rhetoric" as you call it.. is seen to flow both ways Jackovesk
as often when folks see things differently to yourself, why become accusatory, inflated, and blinkered about their perspectives..
Yes.. who are we to discard the modus operandum of others regards uncovering their truth /'The Truth'... by the same token there's no need to feign martyrdom and immunity to criticism when others disagree.

Anyways.. this isn't the place for idle cherry picking, petty dramas and mud slinging
in the spirit of respecting differences I leave off posting any further in this thread.

[Yetti]

Yep! I agree w/U Christine. Too many info/disinfo together, If the us gov really have that kind of technology, they are dropping the ball, because with the actual economic crisis , basically created around oil , having access to zero point tech is like to have 5 asses under the sleeve, but they do nothing, is sad and stupid! , on the other side Puttin is in the same position and... nothing... . Whoever jump ahead with new tech to suppress coal , nat gas and oil, wins! but seems to be another dark agenda first . We need to keep both eyes open and see what they do, not what they say! Chao tigra!

[sigma6]

Hitchcock's documentary? that's an oxymoron, he has a history despite how much I greatly enjoy his movies...
Great post jacko. I am with you 100% of the way...

The biggest mistake is take ANYTHING the MSM gives at face value, and they dished up a plate of sweeties on WWII...

Let's not forget the whole purpose of WWI and WWII was so that a elite families tied to the banking cartels could reap trillions of dollars of the death and destruction of a hundred million suckers...

Everything after that... is concocted... WWI started because someone assassinated a duke? LOL...
WWII because the Japanese were going to invade and take over the US... LOL...

Someone mentioned it doesn't matter that they exaggerated the numbers... This kind of systematic manipulation has been going on as far as recorded time, from the switching and sinking of the Titanic's sister ship. The Lusitainia, the Korean war, the Vietnam war... the idea that 6 million jews were killed in gas chambers is just another story... if they were so irate and disgusted with the Germans, why did Hitler go free? and live in South America for the rest of his life? Why did the entire cadre of Nazi scientists come over to the US? to be given the most plumb jobs?

I don't like the Holocaust mythology because it undermines and devalues the hundreds of millions of OTHER human lives that were taken. It's just a fairy tale to justify the creation of Isreal which is itself just a teleological outcome of the elites needing to maintain the illusion of Bible prophecy. And thus the power of the Bible and all the institutions that it makes money and has a undue amount of control over... And I'm not against Jews, Germans or the Bible... Just the way they are portrayed and manipulated...

I agree with Jacko ... QUESTION EVERYTHING... now I am not so sure about Putin and the aliens, but I wouldn't be surprised either... although there may be just as many alternative interpretations as "alien intervention" It will be a sad day when they finally do come down and greet us. We will be so jaded from all the misinformation, it will be nothing but a huge anti climax... lol

[Hazel]

Yup I've been drawn back in...
and ditto question everything (why else are we here on AF)

But no one serves 'Truth' by stitching conspiracy theories together in some usurping/agenda serving fashion either.

If its a duck it will quack... if its sand in a sieve it will all eventually fall through... may be a simplistic view point but has symbolic and practical merit...
Unfortunately, I sometimes get the impression that this arena is used by some as a scape goating platform and as a play ground for conspiracy sleuths who seek to grand stand and embellish their machismo/egos... that's all fine (part of lifes' game) as long as the voices of others arn't condescended to as part of the fun.

[The Truth Is In There]

people do not want to hear the truth if it doesn't fit with their expectations. that's nothing new. so much outrage and so little knowledge. the worst are those know-it-alls that dismiss revisionists' claims without even studying them in-depth.

i've studied them and my opinion changed very much in the process compared to the "re-education" i had received before. now it is based solely on provable facts, not physically impossible lies and mythology.

[Hazel]

"provable facts"... now there's an "oxymoron"

an anachronism worth exploring?!

Are we attempting to 'get real' here by toying with the notion of selling confidence in incontravertable and undoubtable truth(es)... pah

here-in we have the source bed of mythology...

[Hazel]

Zen version:

[Agape]

Posted by jackovesk (here)
Firstly I like to categorically State this...

Question Everything..!

Secondly, I only care for the Truth...

I'm just not into the (Politically Correct)... Designed by those to say "Hands Off" any type of questioning of whether in fact the (Holocaust) being True or False...

I just don't get it...

I don't know about what 'Truly' happened in the Nazi Concentration Camps & I certainly don't "Trust" the MSM to make up my mind for me..!

The only reason I posted it was in direct contrast & flow on from the OP...

After the end of WW2, the City of London Banksters set up the new phony racial state of Israel to do their dirty work. To keep the new Israeli citizens adequately motivated to do their evil, they created a strong racial delusion based on the so-called “holocaust,” aka “self-deployed fiery sacrifice.”

This deployment of an exaggerated, racial persecution delusion created the necessary background allowing the false charge of Anti-Semitism to be leveled against anyone or any group attempting to investigate what really happened during the WW2 “Work Camp” persecution of “low Judaics” by “fake/high Judaics/zionists who sat in the background in the City of London calling the shots.

This use of Israel as an artificially constructed so-called “racial state” based on racial delusions and falsities has worked so well playing on the sympathies of Americans and other Western Nations. This has allowed Israel to completely hijack America, asset strip it almost bare, and use it as a captive force to wage its foreign proxy wars against entities who were not enemies of America at all, but who were artificially created to appear so by deception. And now for the first time, these toxic World Zionists (WZs), NeoCons and Israeli-American dual citizen Traitors are transforming America into a new War Zone by the creation and deployment of the zionist, pervert-driven Department of Homeland Security.

I myself have never studied the real 'Truth' about the Holocaust, and like many after the constant abuse of "Trust" from the MSM, I do not see anything wrong with exploring any alternative Theories...

I posted this 'Thread' just before sleep-time and was going to watch the 'The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax' when I awoke this morning. So I am just as curious as to what's in the clip as I'm sure many others are...

I refuse to (Hide Behind) the (Barricade to Information) erected by the likes of the AIPAC, ADL & SPLC designed to ( SHOUT DOWN) anyone who doubts the (Official Story)..!

PS - So you can call me an (ADL Anti-Semite) or an (SPLC Racist) whatever the hell you want to call me but don't you (DARE) question my (INTEGRITY) on trying to find out the God's honest (TRUTH) about this story or any other 'Subject' for that matter...

Hi Jacko... I want to precede we all love you and appreciate your postings which I'm sure you know .


I'd have to rise this debate to whole another level that I fear could exceed possibilities of this public forum , from where I see it , to target all the controversies coming on my mind through some of these - debates and articles .

There are two main issues coming up repeatedly ... contradicting each other to great deal ..

one of them is your repeated self-assertion about 'ignorance' of certain events,
or impossibility of verifying their true form ..therefor , for you , the more plausible option , again, more plausible from where you 'stand' right now is more believable .

Someone ( was it you ) said in this thread something like : ''even the word Jew is such a tabu that I'm not sure whether it can be used and in what terms'' .

Of course .. that itself is a sign of wrong .. and I don't talk of 'political correctness' or 'anti-semitism' of 20th century .

The 'tag' on Hebrew nation dates back to the times when they escaped Egypt and went to search for their promised land !!!

Even in pharaonic Egypt , where they were one of the tribes serving the Pharaos ruling caste, these people were due to their tribal origin seen as inferior, outcasts, no matter their subsequent integration to Egyptian society, education and so forth, the 'sin' of their birth could not be repaired .
So when they 'packed their bags' and exiled to seek their own God promised land , taking the 'Arch of Covenant' with them , they were hated even more .

But such was the historical profile of all of your nations if you really care to check history, further than what happened last 100 years , peace between nations was rare .


The same people after all, took their 'sin' with them and coded it so to the Old Testament , to be remembered by all their future progeny , you were born of Sin.
The great Pharaoh once told them .. and it could not be forgotten easily .

So no matter their spiritual elevation, there seems to be this omnipresent doom present in Jewish nation, doom that can be fixed by keeping Gods laws and rules and educating yourself on being better human , God chosen human, not an animal indeed .

Intriguingly enough, most of other worlds religions adopted similar concept at some point of their history, a concept that labeled human birth impure ..and set human life as a path to achieve greater wisdom than 'being born as human' and purifying the 'original sin'.

Both Hindu and Buddhist theology and cosmology though they emerged continents apart are familiar with the same concept , so is Christianity who after all .. followed Judaism in its core principles.

Not to mention that after Roman occupation of Judea and crucification of Jesus Christ ( though many alternative historians here will beg to differ , speaking of historical consequences though rather than details of events ) ,
Christianity became the 'friendlier' and more adaptable option that was the New Gospel spread by disciples of Jesus to neighbouring countries ,
and Jews who chose to remain 'true' to their blood and 'sin' , remained simply Jews and carried the tradition along, with the new 'burden ' and new 'sin' imposed on them by some Christian theologists, namely for crucifying the Messiah .

Who blamed the Romans than Romans alone .. and we're slowly approaching your idea of NWO, anyway.


So there are one, two, three reasons why Jews who defined themselves by their 'blood' , or in todays terms certain 'genetic ecosystem' and number of typical haplogroups , and second to it by adherence to religion they claimed was given to them , in order to purify their birth and elevate themselves to Divine Status , near and dear to God,

were simultaneously claimed 'tabu' by almost every other historical community and not easily accepted .

The 'tabu' seems to persist to this day indeed . I also think it's wrong .

The problem with many other 'tabu's in this opening world and modern society is ignorance of their roots, and willingness to share .. and build bridges between any 'us' and any 'them' . Such lasting ignorance gives rise to countless perversions and misinterpretations of laws of nature .

Skipping over 2000 years ...


and noting that you've posted thread about this topic some time earlier where it was already, wildly discussed to detail : https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...You-To-Hear..-

( 30 pages thread full of documentaries on the subject for those of you interested )

that starts with 'open minded' suggestion that Hitler was possibly, after all, the 'right man' .

I consider myself quite an broad minded entity but I like to go to the very bottom of 'the pool' , and what you call 'care for the Truth' .


The Nazi party as we all know were extreme nationalists , and adherents of what you seem to strongly suspect and oppose in many other posts, the so called NWO.

Yes, the New World Order following the 3rd Reich was their plan after all, after they'd have the war against all the 'inferior barbarians' of this Planet and install strong functioning system controlled by arms , to protect their Aryan citizens .

It's not only Jews who were the main economical vault to mine , and force to conquer ( ideologically, they really did not pose any threat .. the value for any conquering nation rested in the economical plots ) , it was every other tribe and nation along with them,
starting by laws of 'inferiority' of race .

How far do you want to go with this really ? And do you watch just one type of documents, such as the neo-Nazi youth do to convince themselves that Hitler was the right and kind guy and the others , were all really bad and even worse liars ?

It's not a tabu these days .. more over ... the experiments of Nazi scientists , their faith in racial purity, eugenics, super-human traits, it all was transferred to hands of other parties before and after WWII ,
and the same experiments continued to help to shape todays genetics , medicine , physics and every other industry .

What they planned to achieve by force over number of few years was stopped and slowed down temporarily but the agenda is still very much on our plates,

under our nose .

So what kind of 'ignorance' do you claim here ? Without sarcasm . What links do you miss ?



Speaking of NWO again, the globalists agenda seems to target the US dominion at the moment as if they are the one responsible,

I ask you WHY ? Because theirs is the most advanced, enviable scientific achievements at the moment and 'ours' is the fear that it will be misused , to control the populace ?

I tell you what, simply. It's not the 'intelligence' that's targeting the masses, it's not any 'intelligence' destroying your environments, it's ignorance and barbarian , brute force .

I don't see that American public would hate other people , or that it'd be taught such hatred , unless .. of course , they themselves choose to find their enemy, within or without .

It's the only nation that is not ashamed to slam and criticise their leaders ad absurdum, call them the beasts, the reptiles, the Nazis, whom-ever else ,
just because it is allowed .

No other nation would ravage so much, against their own , awaiting no repercussions.

That's one reason I said .. how many of you who live in the US, would want to live in Russia for longer than 2 weeks, country where 'free speech' is tolerated as long as it supports the president ? Where you'd be labeled 'dissidents' and 'law breakers' if you cared to criticise Putin and put to jail or lets say , mental asylum for couple of years, to cool down ?

Who else is breaking their country, from within than its own people ?

You say you admire how Hitler was right, ruling by strong hand .. having a vision for you,

but it's not for everyone Jacko, and collective, wish to live in strong uniformed military like systems where everything works perfect ( until it breaks ) and where people are mercifully terminated when they're ill.


A time to stop my war against the world I guess ...


Have a good day

[Hazel]

Agape, thank you so much for taking the time to illustrate for us the many pieces to the bigger picture and for giving such a clear appraisal about our tendencies, historical and current.

The show stopper that you bring to our floundering misconceptions is when you slap us awake with:

"It's not any 'intelligence' that's targeting the masses, it's not any 'intelligence' destroying your environments, it's ignorance and barbarian brute force."

Chastening words indeed.... something many of us suspect is 'the Truth' of it on a deeper level I'm certain, but in our egocentric blindness and fundamental fear of gazing too long in the mirror, we opt for more comforting 'blame worthy' and/or grandoise explanations for the Hell we create. We could be accused of being collectively delusional, when pre occupied with conjuring our deflectors in the 'pastime' of speculative conspiracy theories.

As you point to, our history attests to what could be called a fear based sado-masochistic drive, which has us habitually scape goat those of difference as 'vermin'/unworthy/unclean which determines a 'self-imprisoning'/isolating urge or state, that must purify and exalt itself to be worthy of place and status once more / or perish. Further, (and this is our stain)... shamefully this 'weak' survivalist tendency is manipulated and capitalized upon and what is worse, to which end.. each of us (ironically.. in varying degrees) are both perpetrators and permissive.

The BIG question remains, how willing are we who "QUESTION EVERYTHING" up for honestly facing-up and taking responsible action... when confronted by this most inconvenient TRUTH ?!


To end on a seriously/comical note: Beyond our blithe arrogance, could be said... we are no better equipped than the blind mole rat...



**Agape: all being said... I do hope in my eternal optimism, that your fear that your words"may exceed the possibilities of this public forum" is not correct.

[jackovesk]

Posted by Agape (here)

Posted by jackovesk (here)
Firstly I like to categorically State this...

Question Everything..!

Secondly, I only care for the Truth...

I'm just not into the (Politically Correct)...bs Designed by those to say "Hands Off" any type of questioning of whether in fact the (Holocaust) being True or False...

I just don't get it...

I don't know about what 'Truly' happened in the Nazi Concentration Camps & I certainly don't "Trust" the MSM to make up my mind for me..!

The only reason I posted it was in direct contrast & flow on from the OP...

After the end of WW2, the City of London Banksters set up the new phony racial state of Israel to do their dirty work. To keep the new Israeli citizens adequately motivated to do their evil, they created a strong racial delusion based on the so-called “holocaust,” aka “self-deployed fiery sacrifice.”

This deployment of an exaggerated, racial persecution delusion created the necessary background allowing the false charge of Anti-Semitism to be leveled against anyone or any group attempting to investigate what really happened during the WW2 “Work Camp” persecution of “low Judaics” by “fake/high Judaics/zionists who sat in the background in the City of London calling the shots.

This use of Israel as an artificially constructed so-called “racial state” based on racial delusions and falsities has worked so well playing on the sympathies of Americans and other Western Nations. This has allowed Israel to completely hijack America, asset strip it almost bare, and use it as a captive force to wage its foreign proxy wars against entities who were not enemies of America at all, but who were artificially created to appear so by deception. And now for the first time, these toxic World Zionists (WZs), NeoCons and Israeli-American dual citizen Traitors are transforming America into a new War Zone by the creation and deployment of the zionist, pervert-driven Department of Homeland Security.

I myself have never studied the real 'Truth' about the Holocaust, and like many after the constant abuse of "Trust" from the MSM, I do not see anything wrong with exploring any alternative Theories...

I posted this 'Thread' just before sleep-time and was going to watch the 'The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax' when I awoke this morning. So I am just as curious as to what's in the clip as I'm sure many others are...

I refuse to (Hide Behind) the (Barricade to Information) erected by the likes of the AIPAC, ADL & SPLC designed to ( SHOUT DOWN) anyone who doubts the (Official Story)..!

PS - So you can call me an (ADL Anti-Semite) or an (SPLC Racist) whatever the hell you want to call me but don't you (DARE) question my (INTEGRITY) on trying to find out the God's honest (TRUTH) about this story or any other 'Subject' for that matter...

Hi Jacko... I want to precede we all love you and appreciate your postings which I'm sure you know .

I'd have to rise this debate to whole another level that I fear could exceed possibilities of this public forum , from where I see it , to target all the controversies coming on my mind through some of these - debates and articles .

There are two main issues coming up repeatedly ... contradicting each other to great deal ..

one of them is your repeated self-assertion about 'ignorance' of certain events,
or impossibility of verifying their true form ..therefor , for you , the more plausible option , again, more plausible from where you 'stand' right now is more believable .

Someone ( was it you ) said in this thread something like : ''even the word Jew is such a tabu that I'm not sure whether it can be used and in what terms'' .

Of course .. that itself is a sign of wrong .. and I don't talk of 'political correctness' or 'anti-semitism' of 20th century .

The 'tag' on Hebrew nation dates back to the times when they escaped Egypt and went to search for their promised land !!!

Even in pharaonic Egypt , where they were one of the tribes serving the Pharaos ruling caste, these people were due to their tribal origin seen as inferior, outcasts, no matter their subsequent integration to Egyptian society, education and so forth, the 'sin' of their birth could not be repaired .
So when they 'packed their bags' and exiled to seek their own God promised land , taking the 'Arch of Covenant' with them , they were hated even more .

But such was the historical profile of all of your nations if you really care to check history, further than what happened last 100 years , peace between nations was rare .

The same people after all, took their 'sin' with them and coded it so to the Old Testament , to be remembered by all their future progeny , you were born of Sin.
The great Pharaoh once told them .. and it could not be forgotten easily .

So no matter their spiritual elevation, there seems to be this omnipresent doom present in Jewish nation, doom that can be fixed by keeping Gods laws and rules and educating yourself on being better human , God chosen human, not an animal indeed .

Intriguingly enough, most of other worlds religions adopted similar concept at some point of their history, a concept that labeled human birth impure ..and set human life as a path to achieve greater wisdom than 'being born as human' and purifying the 'original sin'.

Both Hindu and Buddhist theology and cosmology though they emerged continents apart are familiar with the same concept , so is Christianity who after all .. followed Judaism in its core principles.

Not to mention that after Roman occupation of Judea and crucification of Jesus Christ ( though many alternative historians here will beg to differ , speaking of historical consequences though rather than details of events ) ,
Christianity became the 'friendlier' and more adaptable option that was the New Gospel spread by disciples of Jesus to neighbouring countries ,
and Jews who chose to remain 'true' to their blood and 'sin' , remained simply Jews and carried the tradition along, with the new 'burden ' and new 'sin' imposed on them by some Christian theologists, namely for crucifying the Messiah .

Who blamed the Romans than Romans alone .. and we're slowly approaching your idea of NWO, anyway.

So there are one, two, three reasons why Jews who defined themselves by their 'blood' , or in todays terms certain 'genetic ecosystem' and number of typical haplogroups , and second to it by adherence to religion they claimed was given to them , in order to purify their birth and elevate themselves to Divine Status , near and dear to God,

were simultaneously claimed 'tabu' by almost every other historical community and not easily accepted .

The 'tabu' seems to persist to this day indeed . I also think it's wrong .

The problem with many other 'tabu's in this opening world and modern society is ignorance of their roots, and willingness to share .. and build bridges between any 'us' and any 'them' . Such lasting ignorance gives rise to countless perversions and misinterpretations of laws of nature .

Skipping over 2000 years ...

and noting that you've posted thread about this topic some time earlier where it was already, wildly discussed to detail : https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...You-To-Hear..-

( 30 pages thread full of documentaries on the subject for those of you interested )

that starts with 'open minded' suggestion that Hitler was possibly, after all, the 'right man' .

I consider myself quite an broad minded entity but I like to go to the very bottom of 'the pool' , and what you call 'care for the Truth' .

The Nazi party as we all know were extreme nationalists , and adherents of what you seem to strongly suspect and oppose in many other posts, the so called NWO.

Yes, the New World Order following the 3rd Reich was their plan after all, after they'd have the war against all the 'inferior barbarians' of this Planet and install strong functioning system controlled by arms , to protect their Aryan citizens .

It's not only Jews who were the main economical vault to mine , and force to conquer ( ideologically, they really did not pose any threat .. the value for any conquering nation rested in the economical plots ) , it was every other tribe and nation along with them,
starting by laws of 'inferiority' of race .

How far do you want to go with this really ? And do you watch just one type of documents, such as the neo-Nazi youth do to convince themselves that Hitler was the right and kind guy and the others , were all really bad and even worse liars ?

It's not a tabu these days .. more over ... the experiments of Nazi scientists , their faith in racial purity, eugenics, super-human traits, it all was transferred to hands of other parties before and after WWII ,
and the same experiments continued to help to shape todays genetics , medicine , physics and every other industry .

What they planned to achieve by force over number of few years was stopped and slowed down temporarily but the agenda is still very much on our plates,

under our nose .

So what kind of 'ignorance' do you claim here ? Without sarcasm . What links do you miss ?

Speaking of NWO again, the globalists agenda seems to target the US dominion at the moment as if they are the one responsible,

I ask you WHY ? Because theirs is the most advanced, enviable scientific achievements at the moment and 'ours' is the fear that it will be misused , to control the populace ?

I tell you what, simply. It's not the 'intelligence' that's targeting the masses, it's not any 'intelligence' destroying your environments, it's ignorance and barbarian , brute force .

I don't see that American public would hate other people , or that it'd be taught such hatred , unless .. of course , they themselves choose to find their enemy, within or without .

It's the only nation that is not ashamed to slam and criticise their leaders ad absurdum, call them the beasts, the reptiles, the Nazis, whom-ever else ,
just because it is allowed .

No other nation would ravage so much, against their own , awaiting no repercussions.

That's one reason I said .. how many of you who live in the US, would want to live in Russia for longer than 2 weeks, country where 'free speech' is tolerated as long as it supports the president ? Where you'd be labeled 'dissidents' and 'law breakers' if you cared to criticise Putin and put to jail or lets say , mental asylum for couple of years, to cool down ?

Who else is breaking their country, from within than its own people ?

You say you admire how Hitler was right, ruling by strong hand .. having a vision for you,

but it's not for everyone Jacko, and collective, wish to live in strong uniformed military like systems where everything works perfect ( until it breaks ) and where people are mercifully terminated when they're ill.

A time to stop my war against the world I guess ...

Have a good day

Could'nt understand what you are trying to say there Agape...

Could both you & Recap1...

Recap1:

Whose been waiting, sitting on this 'Thread' for the past 2 days trolling, slyly biding her time, waiting with baited breath attacking me ever so subtly & waiting for me to take the bait and ((BITE))

Condense your criticisms in 1-2 sentence rebuttals so everyone can understand where you are both coming from...?

Remember keep your attacks both brief & to the point so I can give you an honest answer...

Perhaps set them out in (Bullet Points)

At least then it will be out in the open (For all to See)...

Looking forward to your Words of Wisdom...

PS - Bet your relieved the long painful (2 Day) wait is over, hey Recap1...

[Hazel]

Your mockery and bait is egocentric, childish, crude and tiresome Jacko... sorry to dissapoint but not taking it..
again you demean all your salient gifts with such behaviour - a great pity

[jackovesk]

Posted by recap1 (here)
Your mockery and bait is egocentric, childish, crude and tiresome Jacko... sorry to dissapoint but not taking it..
again you demean all your salient gifts with such behaviour - a great pity

All I have to say to you Recap1 is ((nothing)) due to your wrong tact, wrong inferences & wrong argument...

Disclaimer:

Out of respect to fellow members jackovesk can no longer engage in introspective debate with another member of this forum if he does not agree with &/or find another's opinion old-hat or forms poor judgement due to combative behavior or someone who is knowingly soothing one's taste for petty revenge...

jackovesk apoligises for any inconvenience caused...

[Hazel]

http://barnabyisright.files.wordpres...5/3d-wrong.png


The message being DON'T QUESTION ME...
just plain old wrong no matter the level of paranoia conspiracy porn

Why represent my need to debate on this thread as a personal attack Jacko... that's surely a divisive misrepresentation of my right and intent. especially coming from someone as capable as yourself. If you're not interested in the way the thread you began is going, or not up for engaging regards differences... just leave it to the rest... no need for playing victim and deriding those that do engage in the Questioning you rightly espouse. Again for the record I will state that generally I find your conspiracy research dynamic and important... but every rabbit hole you go down cannot and will not please all of the people all of the time. So why... tarnish your good works with caustic responses when people disagree? No need.. don't get it frankly, your better than that. Handling criticism (perceived or real) is an Achilles heel for all of us and a marker of our personal development.. it may be no accident that it be one who has grappled with it big time that brings it to your attention.

[Flash]

Jacko, I understood Agape very well.

Her worries that her words may not be understood in this forum may have proven true with your comments lol

[Agape]

Posted by jackovesk (here)

Recap1:

Whose been waiting, sitting on this 'Thread' for the past 2 days trolling, slyly biding her time, waiting with baited breath attacking me ever so subtly & waiting for me to take the bait and ((BITE))

Condense your criticisms in 1-2 sentence rebuttals so everyone can understand where you are both coming from...?

Jack, no one is 'waiting sitting' on your threads , to attack you. I don't know you. You seem to be funny guy ( that's on positive side ) and posting lots of others peoples news .

Please alert me if you ever care to express your ideas and opinions in concise language ( any language, no problem , I'll take care of translation ) in depth, in own ideas , rather than this continuous mockery .

I find difficult to discuss with someone in this rather empty minded manner .


Actually it's you who derail every attempt for serious debate here . Can't get your 'accent' sorry. The 'problem' with you is talking of things that you admit to misunderstand in tune that is not adequate to the gravity of the topics.


And ( Simon says ) , you're not young child

[Taurean]

The only people to be used and abused for the last 2000 years are the Christians.

Unfortunately the Romans unleashed a virus on to this Planet when they disposessed the Jews.

Sooner or later just about every community that takes them in ends up expelling them due to their nefarious and depraved proclivities

Their real penetration into western civilisation begins with their financing of William the Bastard's invasion of England in 1066.

It's a long and convoluted story from that point, but if there's bloodletting involved, - qui bono.

[Hazel]

Posted by Taurean (here)
The only people to be used and abused for the last 2000 years are the Christians.

Unfortunately the Romans unleashed a virus on to this Planet when they disposessed the Jews.

Sooner or later every community that takes them in ends up expelling them due to their nefarious and depraved proclivities

Their real penetration into western civilisation begins with their financing of William the Bastard's invasion of England in 1066.

It's a long and convoluted story from that point, but if there's bloodletting involved, - qui bono.

It's interesting that our moderators permit such a post or the inclusion of a video titled 'The Jewish Gas Chamber Hoax' for that matter.... surely I'm not the only one thinking this way?! And I don't fear the facile bullying retorts about my' wrongness' and inability to embrace 'the knowledge'.... I DO KNOW that this wicked insult to the intergenerational suffering of others, overtly and covertly expressed in this thread, has gone on too long.

[panopticon]

Posted by Taurean (here)
The only people to be used and abused for the last 2000 years are the Christians.

Unfortunately the Romans unleashed a virus on to this Planet when they disposessed the Jews.

Up until the adoption of Christianity by Constantine your first assertion possibly has some merit, however following the 4th Century CE it was the Christians who were doing the persecuting.

The process adopted for the transition to Christianity was calculated and well planned:

• First Christianity was made acceptable as one of the many cults in the Empire (see the 313 CE Edict of Milan).
• It was raised to the position of State religion by making it the proxy official religion of the Legions (this is where the armed power lay and to research this start here).
• Last the other cults were outlawed and all their wealth/power taken from them.

This is commonly referred to as the Constantinian Shift and wikipedia again may be a good place to start for anyone who wants to research this evolution of Christianity from cult to religion under Constantine.

It is debated as to whether Constantine was a Christian prior to the Battle of the Milvian Bridge but not really relevant to my point:
Christianity was adopted as the official religion of the Roman Empire to shift power away from the cults and centralise it in the hands of the Emperor.

Anyone who says that 'The only people to be used and abused for the last 2000 years are the Christians' has a limited knowledge of history as it relates to Christendom and the various purges, genocides, massacres etc committed in its name by its adherents.

The 4th Century Pagan Massacres are a place to start then there's the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Heretic Trials and Witches Trials which all give a nice cross section if we want to start looking at Christians "using and abusing". What about all them good Christian folks who committed genocide in the America's and Australia? Or maybe for a non-European Christian led civil war, that directly resulted in more than 20 million deaths in 19th Century China, try:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion

BTW, the Roman's never dispossessed the Jews. That is incorrect. Jews were stopped from going into Jerusalem around 70 CE following the revolt but that was just Jerusalem. Many Jews lived in Judea after the Christian Crusaders were driven out by the Muslims in the 7th Century CE and then again following the Crusaders winning back Jerusalem beginning 12th Century CE the Muslims reconquered late 12th Century CE (though there were a number of massacres of Jews in this period by the Christian forces). Under the Ottoman Empire (16th - 20th Century) there was again increased migration of Jews into the region as they were once again not victimised as they had been under Christian rule. Essentially, Jews were not allowed to enter Jerusalem when the Roman's or Christian controlled it from ~70 CE to post-WWI. I think the rest of Judea was fine though there were the occasional massacres of Jews by the Christian forces.

I get a bit confused as to why people think that the Jews were removed by the Roman's. Outside of their periodic rebellions, the Roman's had very little problems with the Jews or Early Christians (despite the folk stories/myths that say the contrary). Wasn't until Christianity went mainstream Roman that Christian's attacked the Jews. Prior to this they got along fairly well. The main split started to occur following the 2nd Century CE revolt with the Christian's not fighting against the Roman's with the Jews (though there are other contributing factors that caused the split). But that wasn't the Christian's and Jew's not getting along, just that the Christian's didn't believe that the revolt leader, Simon bar Kokhba, was the Messiah (for obvious reasons). From memory I think there were killings of Christian's by Jews in this short period (though I can't remember the numbers reported off the top of my head I think it was fairly small) but I can't remember the details.

Now, if it's at all possible can there be a discussion about the OP?

I really get confused when the topic is about Putin, Russia, Crimea, Ukraine advanced weaponry, aliens, etc yet somehow I'm writing about Christian's being used/abused [NOT!] and Jews in antiquity... Oh and I'm not interested in having a discussion on the deaths in concentration camps during WWII. That has been discussed ad nauseum in another Jacko thread recently (as Agape pointed out above) and I see no reason to have 2 threads running concurrently on the same topic.

Is there actually any evidence to support any of the allegations made in the OP (other than bloody Punce having a new song out) or is it just a bunch a words strung together to make sentences with no actual meaning or truth to be found...



-- Pan

[Flash]

Now, if it's at all possible can there be a discussion about the OP?

I really get confused when the topic is about Putin, Russia, Crimea, Ukraine advanced weaponry, aliens, etc yet somehow I'm writing about Christian's being used/abused [NOT!] and Jews in antiquity... Oh and I'm not interested in having a discussion on the deaths in concentration camps during WWII. That has been discussed ad nauseum in another Jacko thread recently (as Agape pointed out above) and I see no reason to have 2 threads running concurrently on the same topic.

Is there actually any evidence to support any of the allegations made in the OP (other than bloody Punce having a new song out) or is it just a bunch a words strung together to make sentences with no actual meaning or truth to be found...

I agree, i always open the thread thinking there will be something new on the russian front and fall down on the eternal Jewish discussion. And then I forget and open it again lol, it is a loss of time

[loungelizard]

Sorry if people think I'm digressing here, but the OP makes some pretty heavy allegations, and there is a connection to the 2nd post about the holocaust so here goes


Hello Jackovesk

I've not been able to watch the video you put on in your post 2 (I'm on a limited download contract at the moment) but I'm making the assumption from the blurb that this is based on Carlo Mattogno's work, which is available by free PDF if you want to read it for yourself.
A critique of the claims made in this book is also freely available from the Barnes Review: "Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard. A Critique of the Falsehoods of Mattogno, Graf and Kues" and another very detailed response is here at http://www.holocaust-history.org/aus...e-to-mattogno/ and these analyses in particular pretty well destroy Mattogno's theories.

After reading the blurb with the video, and browsing the related website, could you elaborate on these points as they are stated in the video as you said you were intending to watch the video so:

• what is the evidence proving Treblinka was a transit camp, rather than a death camp? (I have accessed the Word document provided by the website as evidence but it is unfortunately meaningless without further explanation(maybe that's in the film?) ): many of the links are irrelevant
  
• how is the claim that diesel gassing, that has been documented as having been carried out, proven to be absurd?
  
• where are the non-existent mass graves? I couldn't find any reference on the website to the extensive work carried out by the forensic archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls of Staffordshire University, which began in 2010. This investigation, which is ongoing, includes satellite imagery and mapping software, together with a range of geophysical surveying tools such as ground penetrating radar, resistance survey and electrical imaging. Her PhD 'Holocaust Archaeology: Archaeological Approaches to Landscapes of Nazi Genocide and Persecution' is very informative, and if you want to read more about Treblinka specifically, her book" Finding Treblinka. Archaeological Investigations at Treblinka Extermination and Labour Camps" is due to be published this year. Is this mentioned in the film?
  
• who was forced to confess?

Thank you.


PS Oh and as Agape already pointed out Jackovesk, there was recently a previous thread dealing with this emotive and sensitive subject, that has had 20,000 views and 509 replies. Almost all the contributors showed respect and maturity so to claim that this subject always gets touchy isn't true. It's interesting to note that this civilised discussion was on a thread you started, but you rarely entered into the discussion after that…I can't help but wonder why, if it's a subject in which you are interested…